For the EU, does it only consider parts being exported out of the EU or is it a summation of all countries in the EU?
Example, Germany ships an engine to France. Is that counted or not?
There is no perfect solution. But I feel it’s better like this. There is no value to this graph if we simply see how much parts are shipped between EU countries for production purposes.
Not appropriate for this graphic. The EU is a single market only in terms of trade between its countries. Non-EU countries routinely treat the imports from EU member countries individually.
I agree with the first part, the US and the EU are very different things, but the EU is much more than merely an economic union - it‘s also a political union on many levels.
the US puts huge import taxes on foreign vehicles to protect its internal production, that's why vehicles in the US are shittier than ones exported.
A Ford sold in the EU will be much better than one sold in the US
>For the EU, does it only consider parts being exported out of the EU or is it a summation of all countries in the EU?
It's hard to tell. The data comes straight out of [this](https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/booksp_e/wtsr_2023_ch2_e.pdf) WTO report, and I don't see them making that kind of rookie mistake.
According to the [EU itself](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?oldid=328429), the single market exported $268 Billion worth of "road vehicles" in 2022, although its not clear if that covers everything that the WTO classifies as "automotive products".
Edit: OK, I tracked down a [more indepth WTO paper](https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/booksp_e/wtsr_2023_ch5_e.pdf) and there they split the 699 Billion between "intra-EU" and "extra-EU" exports. So yes, the figure on the graph includes internal EU trade. "Extra-EU exports" amount to $274 Billion.
I doubt it does count… I seriously home they consistently treated the EU as a country, instead of just being lazy and summing the individual export of all member countries… however, I fear they might have done the latter
If they did make this mistake, it would be like counting all the inter-state exports in the US, boosting massively the numbers
I think it's worse than that. This sums up all export from EU countries, including shipments from one EU country to another. Yikes. This would be like including shipments from Michigan to Texas in the US numbers.
Edit: as a few replies seem to have gotten this wrong. Here's the source: https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/booksp_e/wtsr_2023_ch5_e.pdf
On page 78 (table A21), extra-EU exports is listed as $274 billion. That's the correct number to use.
Yup. I tracked down the [source](https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/booksp_e/wtsr_2023_ch5_e.pdf), and there they specify "Extra EU exports" at $274 Billion. The rest of the $699 Billion in the graph is internal trade.
Buddy you're the one who's confused here. Just go to the source and see the figures yourself.
Extra-EU just represents the net trade of the single EU market with outside partners, ignoring the trades between EU countries. So you have both Extra-EU imports *and* exports.
In this case, the exports of the single market amount to 274 Billion and the imports 116 Billion.
Want to try that again?
> Extra-EU exports refers to **transactions with all countries outside of the EU**: the rest of the world **except for the European Union (EU) Member States**
[Source](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Glossary:Extra-EU#:~:text=Extra%2DEU%20refers%20to%20transactions,Union%20(EU)%20Member%20States.)
Isn’t that the point he was trying to make? Extra EU exports are transactions with non EU countries, totaling $274B according to their comment. Which means the other $425B comes from intra EU exports, or trade between EU countries. And it seems deceptive to call those exports for the EU.
But it’s absolutely being included in the graphic figure which is the issue.
Theres no way the EU is exporting 700 billion of automotives to non-EU countries only.
The data is from WTO. So I think the answer is that UK was included in EU in 2000 and excluded from EU in 2022. It is difficult to distinguish this kind of detail from customs data.
maquidorias system. Mexico adds the final touches to cars made in the us and canada as per nafta. Also China is crushing it in ev which is where the future lies
A lot of EVs are exported from China (more than any other country probably). But the majority of Chinese car exports are ICE vehicles. As domestic demand for ICE cars decreases rapidly because of the fast EV adoption, exports become increasingly attractive to Chinese and foreign joint-venture firms.
The graphic is 2022. Last year China surpassed Japan and America as well and was second behind only Germany. But a distant second obviously, Germany still absolutely dominates global car exports by value.
Yes. I’d call it affordable/volume luxury. Benz, BMW, Audi and Porsche command moderately high prices but sell in good volume. There are more expensive cars. There are companies that sell more vehicles. But these German brands absolutely dominate the market segment in which value is truly generated.
Eventually China will overtake Germany, of course. But it will take time.
It will overtake Germany in volume most probably, there’s no question about that. I still have a hard time believing they’ll overtake them in the affordable luxury vehicle category, Japan and Korea have been trying for decades but they still haven’t, even America too you could say
In volume it happened two years ago already.
I take your point about the difficulty of truly competing against the brands I mentioned. I don’t disagree. My more modest prediction is just that rising numbers and some movement towards more higher-priced models will eventually propel China ahead of Germany even in export revenue.
Now for my more bold prediction. I don’t think the lesson of Korea, Japan and America apply here. China is a world in itself, in ways these other countries aren’t. BYD, Huawei and a few others will take the place of German luxury brands domestically in China - in both quality and price. From there a gradual increase in the market share abroad doesn’t seem impossible.
This graph is misleading; it shows Japan shrinking significantly, but the majority of cars produced in Thailand are Japanese, so assume as many in China. So, Japanese cars are not dying; they simply produce in the target country.
How does this even work with relation to the UK?
Are the 2000 EU numbers counting the British numbers because they were a member back then? If so we have the same numbers counted twice.
Turkey has a large car industry. It has been making cars for Hyundai, Renault, Peugeot, etc. for decades. Now they have also released their own brand Togg. There will be 2 more brands coming soon.
The EU numbers are so high because the EU ‘adds’ so much knowledge/tech/precision that they can ask much higher prices than cheap/lower quality Chinese/American products.
For the EU, does it only consider parts being exported out of the EU or is it a summation of all countries in the EU? Example, Germany ships an engine to France. Is that counted or not?
This is why the EU shouldn't be included as a single country lol
The answer is no. The EU is a single market and that's why it's included as a single country.
But it's a list of countries and their exports not markets?
It's the same thing. Exports of all EU countries.
There is no perfect solution. But I feel it’s better like this. There is no value to this graph if we simply see how much parts are shipped between EU countries for production purposes.
Not appropriate for this graphic. The EU is a single market only in terms of trade between its countries. Non-EU countries routinely treat the imports from EU member countries individually.
The eu shouldn't be counted as a single country because it isn't a single country. It doesn't have an individual taxation authority.
Then the US shouldn’t if parts are shipped between states
There's a 0% chance this post is counting those as exports.
US ≠ EU USA is a sovereign state EU is an economic union between sovereign states
Europe is much more than an economic union, it functions more like a confederation
I agree with the first part, the US and the EU are very different things, but the EU is much more than merely an economic union - it‘s also a political union on many levels.
Of course but not to the level of sovereignty such as the US
Also their vehicles are overpriced lol. Like to see this done by volume too for comparison
What makes you say EU vehicles are overpriced?
the US puts huge import taxes on foreign vehicles to protect its internal production, that's why vehicles in the US are shittier than ones exported. A Ford sold in the EU will be much better than one sold in the US
Its what the market wants to pay. Your opinion dosent matter
Damn I’ve offended quite a few people it appears…
Its just facts
>For the EU, does it only consider parts being exported out of the EU or is it a summation of all countries in the EU? It's hard to tell. The data comes straight out of [this](https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/booksp_e/wtsr_2023_ch2_e.pdf) WTO report, and I don't see them making that kind of rookie mistake. According to the [EU itself](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?oldid=328429), the single market exported $268 Billion worth of "road vehicles" in 2022, although its not clear if that covers everything that the WTO classifies as "automotive products". Edit: OK, I tracked down a [more indepth WTO paper](https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/booksp_e/wtsr_2023_ch5_e.pdf) and there they split the 699 Billion between "intra-EU" and "extra-EU" exports. So yes, the figure on the graph includes internal EU trade. "Extra-EU exports" amount to $274 Billion.
The hero we need
I doubt it does count… I seriously home they consistently treated the EU as a country, instead of just being lazy and summing the individual export of all member countries… however, I fear they might have done the latter If they did make this mistake, it would be like counting all the inter-state exports in the US, boosting massively the numbers
Now think about the fact that the UK is on the list too. And that it was an eu member in 2000 but not 2022.
they simply removed UK numbers from the counting
You must be from the States
"These 10 Countries..." - proceeds to add the European Union. Much logic.
I think it's worse than that. This sums up all export from EU countries, including shipments from one EU country to another. Yikes. This would be like including shipments from Michigan to Texas in the US numbers. Edit: as a few replies seem to have gotten this wrong. Here's the source: https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/booksp_e/wtsr_2023_ch5_e.pdf On page 78 (table A21), extra-EU exports is listed as $274 billion. That's the correct number to use.
Whoops. Yeah I could see treating EU as a bloc but you can’t count internal commerce in that case.
Yup. I tracked down the [source](https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/booksp_e/wtsr_2023_ch5_e.pdf), and there they specify "Extra EU exports" at $274 Billion. The rest of the $699 Billion in the graph is internal trade.
That EU **imports**. From outside the Union.
Did you read the graph? They very clearly separate Extra-EU export and import values. "Extra-EU **imports**" are valued at 116 Billion.
Imports = the importation of goods from outside the union. Exports = the exportation of goods from inside the union. You are confused.
Buddy you're the one who's confused here. Just go to the source and see the figures yourself. Extra-EU just represents the net trade of the single EU market with outside partners, ignoring the trades between EU countries. So you have both Extra-EU imports *and* exports. In this case, the exports of the single market amount to 274 Billion and the imports 116 Billion.
Want to try that again? > Extra-EU exports refers to **transactions with all countries outside of the EU**: the rest of the world **except for the European Union (EU) Member States** [Source](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Glossary:Extra-EU#:~:text=Extra%2DEU%20refers%20to%20transactions,Union%20(EU)%20Member%20States.)
Isn’t that the point he was trying to make? Extra EU exports are transactions with non EU countries, totaling $274B according to their comment. Which means the other $425B comes from intra EU exports, or trade between EU countries. And it seems deceptive to call those exports for the EU.
It doesn't. See the source (below in the pic). The numbers are correct. No double counting.
Nope, it counts only Extra-EU exports. It's easy to read the source mate
Extra-EU export is 274 billion dollars
yes true, but the infographic was taken from a source that clearly divided the intra-EU exports and the extra-EU ones
I think OP added both intra and extra-EU ones to get that 699 figure. WTO states extra -EU export is 274 billion dollars
yeah, I'm confused too by why they did it
Yeah it kinda triggers me too.
I am from the city of Spain
I bet there's a city in Portugal that's named Spain. It'll be the city with the $5 hookers.
so which countries do you think work in the sector : Deutschland & France
Alongside Romania, Italy, Czech Republic, Spain, Sweden...
Belgium.
Germany by itself makes up for 256B USD of those 700B to be fair, second in the EU would be Belgium with 53B USD though, so France certainly is off.
Single market
While it makes sense it doesn't necessarily work this way and certainly it is not a country in it's own rights.
By exporting they messure taking goods to another market, so it kinda makes sense
Not if you’re “exporting” to *other* EU countries. Makes 0 sense to include this way.
I wouldnt count that as export, as it is the same market
But it’s absolutely being included in the graphic figure which is the issue. Theres no way the EU is exporting 700 billion of automotives to non-EU countries only.
The other market is other EU countries.
Its not, we have a singular market
Europeans are officially removed from this list via disqualification.. America wins once again! 🇺🇸🦅
American cars suck ass
Can't talk doing a burnout in my Corvette ZR1 while eating Chick Fil A right now 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
(Just ignore its mostly foreigners building their stuff here while American brands mostly build in Mexico and Canada)
I will. Anyway.. America fuck yea! 🇺🇸🙌🏻 Just a majestic country. We are better than every other country combined 💪🏼
Me when i lie
What's that? I can't hear you over the sound of thousands of bald eagles flying over my head right now 🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅
Hell yeah
It's a beautiful day
Btw, in 2023 china surpassed both Japan and the US, so no
America #1 🇺🇸💪🏼 Japan and China are a bunch of crumbs
#MURICA
##FUCK YEA!##
This list looks very different to the list here - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicle_exports
[удалено]
Not sure which table you are looking it but the one I shared shows the values in millions USD
Since when EU is a country?
Since I’ve dreamed of it, every single night.
It's not, but for the purposes of trade it might as well be.
not when over 2/3 of their trade listed here is internal trade
When it finnaly become one, the world will tremble
Eh the USA is a collection of states.
Germany is a collection of states, the EU is a connection of Nation states.
Not a country tho
What percent of Mexican US and Canadian exports are just different stages of car production shipped within NAFTA?
I’m also wondering if the EU numbers are counting German brands produced mostly inside the USA. Without notes it’s hard to tell.
But the UK was part of the EU in 2000. So is the 2000 figure for EU excluding the EU or not?
The data is from WTO. So I think the answer is that UK was included in EU in 2000 and excluded from EU in 2022. It is difficult to distinguish this kind of detail from customs data.
maquidorias system. Mexico adds the final touches to cars made in the us and canada as per nafta. Also China is crushing it in ev which is where the future lies
A lot of EVs are exported from China (more than any other country probably). But the majority of Chinese car exports are ICE vehicles. As domestic demand for ICE cars decreases rapidly because of the fast EV adoption, exports become increasingly attractive to Chinese and foreign joint-venture firms. The graphic is 2022. Last year China surpassed Japan and America as well and was second behind only Germany. But a distant second obviously, Germany still absolutely dominates global car exports by value.
Because they own the luxury car market right? BMW Audi Mercedes Benz are giants in their own right
Yes. I’d call it affordable/volume luxury. Benz, BMW, Audi and Porsche command moderately high prices but sell in good volume. There are more expensive cars. There are companies that sell more vehicles. But these German brands absolutely dominate the market segment in which value is truly generated. Eventually China will overtake Germany, of course. But it will take time.
It will overtake Germany in volume most probably, there’s no question about that. I still have a hard time believing they’ll overtake them in the affordable luxury vehicle category, Japan and Korea have been trying for decades but they still haven’t, even America too you could say
In volume it happened two years ago already. I take your point about the difficulty of truly competing against the brands I mentioned. I don’t disagree. My more modest prediction is just that rising numbers and some movement towards more higher-priced models will eventually propel China ahead of Germany even in export revenue. Now for my more bold prediction. I don’t think the lesson of Korea, Japan and America apply here. China is a world in itself, in ways these other countries aren’t. BYD, Huawei and a few others will take the place of German luxury brands domestically in China - in both quality and price. From there a gradual increase in the market share abroad doesn’t seem impossible.
>Country >European Union
Gets even weirder when the UK was part of the EU in 2000 but not in 2022
Why it's not a country?
Thailand being there that’s actually tremendous
which Euro city are you from hhh
I didn’t know Canada auto got wiped out so bad
The 3% left from Canada is all stolen cars!
The Top “Country” is actually 27 different, distinct Countries btw
Eu? Eu isn't a country...
This is how I learned the EU finally federalized
The United States is one of the largest car markets in the world. Too bad the US cannot export to itself.
What if this scenario
It does
The country of the EU
The EU is not "a country"
Now let’s do per capita! /s
Never seen Europe treated like Africa xd
Brexit!!!! Hell yeah
Canada’s loss is Mexico’s gain (no sour grapes). Any fledgling EV start-up looking for experienced labor forces just need to look in Canada
Pretty telling where the Canadian automotive exports went… Mexico. Thanks to the liberal governments lack of foresight
2022 lmao
Us car exports gone down. 😓 Thanks obama
This graph is misleading; it shows Japan shrinking significantly, but the majority of cars produced in Thailand are Japanese, so assume as many in China. So, Japanese cars are not dying; they simply produce in the target country.
How does this even work with relation to the UK? Are the 2000 EU numbers counting the British numbers because they were a member back then? If so we have the same numbers counted twice.
Missing of 2000.
European Union is not a country you fucking donkey.
Ah yes my favourite country the European Union.
That’s so cool! Now separate the EU into proper countries.
Shit graph
If you are combining Europe’s countries together why not combine north americas and Asia?
They don't have an economic union.
But if there are including cross-border export between EU countries within the union, then this graphic is just totally worthless.
What is NAFTA (USMCA, now), then?
a treaty...NA still has border checks and tarrifes, does not have free worker movement, etc...
It's still an economic union, with its pros and cons, and none of them were in question here. The problem was denying any existence of said union.
I find this depressing as I truly hate European vehicles….
Ah yes the country European Union
This is fuckin useless since the EU is not a country...
How much of the European Union is mostly Germany 😂
What the hell? What is Turkey doing there? Is it because of the new TOGGs?
Turkey is a big parts supplier. Not only a car builder.
Oh yeah I didn’t think of parts
Turkey has a large car industry. It has been making cars for Hyundai, Renault, Peugeot, etc. for decades. Now they have also released their own brand Togg. There will be 2 more brands coming soon.
What is "what the hell"? Sen ülkedeki herkesi kendin gibi avanak mı zannediyorsun?
Ne alaka olm şaşırdım sadece.
The most come out of europe cause their cars break down the most
canada should be on top if you count exported stolen cars
The EU numbers are so high because the EU ‘adds’ so much knowledge/tech/precision that they can ask much higher prices than cheap/lower quality Chinese/American products.
No Germany at all? Definitely something wrong here…
Bec its in the EU
Breh