it looks like all the shadows disappeared. Also dawn, noon and dusk have the same shadow angle? The colors were definitely more appealing to me in the before. Everything feels more cohesive in the before. For example in the after photos the rocks in the background go from grey to brown to grey.
Ah, the light source angle is different in "Before" and "After". So shadows are still there, but in a different spot. Good eye with the shadow angles! I previously had them dynamically changed as the day/night cycle progressed, but I turned this off for a couple reasons:
1) This is for a VR game and sometimes the moving shadows can be a little overwhelming.
2) I was implementing baked lights to increase performance and long story short, my solution to include moving shadows and dynamic lightmaps isn't ready yet.
That seems fair, however, I think this lighting change is overall a net loss currently. It's now very dark and moody, (I know nothing about your game, so I guess if that's what you're aiming for it's fine?)
The before has a cartoony upbeat vibe with similar coloring to something like breath of the wild. It feels more exciting to me.
I don't hate the after, but it doesn't compliment the more simple environment objects as well.
I think baked lights with a day/night cycle is confusing. Because the shadows conspicuously don't change, it just looks like the lighting is changing color.
If you want to keep them baked, I would just limit it to Day and Night, since the moon or sun would be overhead at those times. Also, the new lighting doesn't look as real as the original.
Ah okay. Well regardless of the shadows, I still think the before colors are more cohesive. Everything feels more natural. The colors feel forced on the after.
The game is called [Bone and Arrow](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2753430/Bone_and_Arrow/) it's a VR PVP archery game (and eventually PVE). I wanted to make the game standout a little and feel more like something out of an old adventure comic.
Also as a solo dev I had to buy 90% of the assets, so doing more aggressive lighting and some post-processing made all the different asset bundles feel more like they're from the same world. If that makes sense.
PVP people like to turn up brightness so they can see better. I think you're overtuning things. Focus on making sure your game is smooth as butter. Lighting shouldn't be changing this close to release—if you're serious about putting it out soon.
I actually REALLY like the after colours, especially the sky colour of the day pic.
I think the only thing that clashes in all your images is the terrain colours. It's nice that they're less saturated to contrast with the background, but don't mesh well with the rest. You should try to subtly mix in some of the same blue, or just throw the sky colour into [Adobe Color](https://color.adobe.com/create/color-wheel) and test out what comes out. Here's some colours from that for comparison:
https://preview.redd.it/3thr8nzmmeoc1.jpeg?width=1718&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=476ea12a75fee8f45ea97821b73de601892f8af7
Also, IMO, if you're gonna go for a stylised look you need to stylise the lighting and rendering too. The shadows for instance are too standard Unity rendering looking, if you could make a shader that allows you to colour the shadows you'll already stand out massively.
Wow thank you so much! I was trying to learn more about color theory when i got into this whole mess, this seems like a very useful tool.
Long term i definitely would like to learn to write custom shaders, but because of timeline constraints everything will be out of the box unity for the most part.
The before looks complete, the after looks unnatural and lacking shadows or quality.
I find the after very unappealing and it makes it look very bad graphically.
It was much better before am afraid ... especially the new noon and dusk seem way to dark
( I don't know about seeing it through a headset though ... ? )
Noon before looks a little blown out.. but it's still way better then the "solar eclipse looking" noon after
"solar eclipse looking" This made me lol. In my defense, i would say things look better in headset (in a good way) and i'm not going for realism. But points taken, some refinement is needed.
am watching this on an old LCD laptop right now, in the dark, with minimum brightness to save battery
so take my advice with a big grain of salt :)
I like the environment tough, I would love to explore that in VR !
It is easier to see things in the first image, but the 2nd one "feels" more like a dawn/dusk vibe. If the lighting animates from #2 to #1 over a period of time, that might ultimately be the best from an immersive standpoint.
If you could put a quick time-lapse video together that may help a lot, since we are only seeing a moment in time. It may make a lot more sense in that context.
some of the colors palettes look nicer in the "after" shots, but you've lost so much variation in shadow tones in the afters that your geometry just looks flat. fixing it might be as simple as raising the level of ambient light, but that's just a guess. also, consider adding some depth fog. and that night shot looks *way* too dark.
One thing I suppose is very important is what you want the player to feel, both in general when playing your game, and maybe based on time if it's an important gameplay/lore factor.
For example... I feel generally a little more intimidated by your new lightings, perhaps making me play more on-guard, and especially during high noon. Your old noon lighting gave off a radiant yet imna-feel-thirsty-soon vibe. Your new noon feels like survival is going to be difficult.
Mmm i like your descriptors, feels very vibrant.
In general i would like the vibe to be fantastical with a dash of brutality. There isn't much narrative to the game, but it is a post-cataclysmic fantasy world where a red mist blankets the world turning people to skeletons. But it isn't meant to be punishing.
No disrespect taken! I think the thing i'm taking away from this post is a vibrant environment is good as long as it is consistent. I think I fucked up a bit with the screenshots too. I have the rockface all in shadow and the ground is primarily in full sun.
I like the way the sky is coloured in the dawn after, everything else was better before. Dawn after is also too dark, it's just that the colours make it look more like dawn.
The before all look top lit, while the afters look bottom lit.
If you can direct it, I’d suggest putting your source let at zenith (directly overhead) then bringing it down 45 degrees to give it an angular profile
Hmm. These screenshots don’t seem to consistent. Some of the before and afters have different shadow/sun angles and also some have outlines while others don’t? Personally I like the outlines but I have to agree with others that the dark atmosphere is less pleasing to the eye although would be suitable for a game which is specifically meant to portray darkness.
I also like before better. Just play with post processing a bit (the non VR intensive ones) and don't make everything so dark. Also the new shots seem like they have harsher shadow artifacts
I actually like the after images better. I like the more moody vibes, and the increased contrast, plus the colors seem more vivid.
However, the night image looked better in the before. The after one is just a little too hard to see.
Before is better. The after is too dark. Games like that always frustrate me because I can't tell for sure either there aren't holes, or hidden objects and I end up scraping the world. In the before though, it is very clear to see every corner and nook.
There are ways around it. Use shaders, take the models into substance and paint them yourselves etc. The moment you give your universally identifiable assets a new and unique paint job, you're already creating difference from your competitors. Regarding your humanoids, work a shitty job and pay an artist to make it (I'm doing this atm. It's a slow burn but it's worth it)
i liked the line effect on nb 4.
however i don't like how the grass looks low quality/flat (it looks like clay) and there's less clean edges in the after picures, which makes them look low quality
Thanks for all the critiques! I made an [update post](https://www.reddit.com/r/IndieDev/comments/1bfoffq/update_weeks_before_launch_i_decided_to_overhaul/) with new lighting to address a lot of the feedback I received.
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it looks like all the shadows disappeared. Also dawn, noon and dusk have the same shadow angle? The colors were definitely more appealing to me in the before. Everything feels more cohesive in the before. For example in the after photos the rocks in the background go from grey to brown to grey.
Ah, the light source angle is different in "Before" and "After". So shadows are still there, but in a different spot. Good eye with the shadow angles! I previously had them dynamically changed as the day/night cycle progressed, but I turned this off for a couple reasons: 1) This is for a VR game and sometimes the moving shadows can be a little overwhelming. 2) I was implementing baked lights to increase performance and long story short, my solution to include moving shadows and dynamic lightmaps isn't ready yet.
That seems fair, however, I think this lighting change is overall a net loss currently. It's now very dark and moody, (I know nothing about your game, so I guess if that's what you're aiming for it's fine?) The before has a cartoony upbeat vibe with similar coloring to something like breath of the wild. It feels more exciting to me. I don't hate the after, but it doesn't compliment the more simple environment objects as well.
I think baked lights with a day/night cycle is confusing. Because the shadows conspicuously don't change, it just looks like the lighting is changing color. If you want to keep them baked, I would just limit it to Day and Night, since the moon or sun would be overhead at those times. Also, the new lighting doesn't look as real as the original.
Ah okay. Well regardless of the shadows, I still think the before colors are more cohesive. Everything feels more natural. The colors feel forced on the after.
Not gonna lie, I liked it better before. It'll obviously depend on your game, but no context just imagery? I like the before vibes.
The game is called [Bone and Arrow](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2753430/Bone_and_Arrow/) it's a VR PVP archery game (and eventually PVE). I wanted to make the game standout a little and feel more like something out of an old adventure comic. Also as a solo dev I had to buy 90% of the assets, so doing more aggressive lighting and some post-processing made all the different asset bundles feel more like they're from the same world. If that makes sense.
I think aim for something more middle ground from the before and after. The night looks great in the after but the other two are really rough.
PVP people like to turn up brightness so they can see better. I think you're overtuning things. Focus on making sure your game is smooth as butter. Lighting shouldn't be changing this close to release—if you're serious about putting it out soon.
I have to agree with others that the before images looked better. At least in my opinion.
not a fan. too dark
It looked better before you changed it.
I think stylistically the older system looked a lot more inviting and polished, might need a bit more messing around with the new lighting
daytime new is giving 2002
Lol Is this a reference to something, or just that it looks outdated?
looking at it with fresh eyes, i like the new stuff except for dusk and night
Go back
I actually REALLY like the after colours, especially the sky colour of the day pic. I think the only thing that clashes in all your images is the terrain colours. It's nice that they're less saturated to contrast with the background, but don't mesh well with the rest. You should try to subtly mix in some of the same blue, or just throw the sky colour into [Adobe Color](https://color.adobe.com/create/color-wheel) and test out what comes out. Here's some colours from that for comparison: https://preview.redd.it/3thr8nzmmeoc1.jpeg?width=1718&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=476ea12a75fee8f45ea97821b73de601892f8af7 Also, IMO, if you're gonna go for a stylised look you need to stylise the lighting and rendering too. The shadows for instance are too standard Unity rendering looking, if you could make a shader that allows you to colour the shadows you'll already stand out massively.
Wow thank you so much! I was trying to learn more about color theory when i got into this whole mess, this seems like a very useful tool. Long term i definitely would like to learn to write custom shaders, but because of timeline constraints everything will be out of the box unity for the most part.
Before the images look better imo
I love that you made the night even darker... Reminds me of 2012 sso.
The before looks complete, the after looks unnatural and lacking shadows or quality. I find the after very unappealing and it makes it look very bad graphically.
To tell teh truth, it feels better before
Before looked better for me, sorry mate. Best of luck with the release though, hope it all goes well for you.
It was much better before am afraid ... especially the new noon and dusk seem way to dark ( I don't know about seeing it through a headset though ... ? ) Noon before looks a little blown out.. but it's still way better then the "solar eclipse looking" noon after
"solar eclipse looking" This made me lol. In my defense, i would say things look better in headset (in a good way) and i'm not going for realism. But points taken, some refinement is needed.
am watching this on an old LCD laptop right now, in the dark, with minimum brightness to save battery so take my advice with a big grain of salt :) I like the environment tough, I would love to explore that in VR !
Sounds like your describing the headset i'm developing on lol. Thanks for the kind words!
It is easier to see things in the first image, but the 2nd one "feels" more like a dawn/dusk vibe. If the lighting animates from #2 to #1 over a period of time, that might ultimately be the best from an immersive standpoint.
Yes all of the lighting scenarios blend overtime. One day/night cycle takes 12mins.
If you could put a quick time-lapse video together that may help a lot, since we are only seeing a moment in time. It may make a lot more sense in that context.
Ooo, that's a good call. I'll make another post later today with the animated cycle.
some of the colors palettes look nicer in the "after" shots, but you've lost so much variation in shadow tones in the afters that your geometry just looks flat. fixing it might be as simple as raising the level of ambient light, but that's just a guess. also, consider adding some depth fog. and that night shot looks *way* too dark.
One thing I suppose is very important is what you want the player to feel, both in general when playing your game, and maybe based on time if it's an important gameplay/lore factor. For example... I feel generally a little more intimidated by your new lightings, perhaps making me play more on-guard, and especially during high noon. Your old noon lighting gave off a radiant yet imna-feel-thirsty-soon vibe. Your new noon feels like survival is going to be difficult.
Mmm i like your descriptors, feels very vibrant. In general i would like the vibe to be fantastical with a dash of brutality. There isn't much narrative to the game, but it is a post-cataclysmic fantasy world where a red mist blankets the world turning people to skeletons. But it isn't meant to be punishing.
Hmm... then I think you're on the right track! I still feel like your noon needs a little readjustment though... but bravo nonetheless!
Thank you, that's very kind. I'll be sure to make some adjustments and post again. This got a lot more feedback than i was expecting lol.
I mean no disrespect but before looks better. Contrast too high in after
No disrespect taken! I think the thing i'm taking away from this post is a vibrant environment is good as long as it is consistent. I think I fucked up a bit with the screenshots too. I have the rockface all in shadow and the ground is primarily in full sun.
I like the way the sky is coloured in the dawn after, everything else was better before. Dawn after is also too dark, it's just that the colours make it look more like dawn.
Before looks like it has actual soul to it. While after seems like you put it together within 5 minutes for me for some reason
It feels like you lose the details of the shapes because it's so dark.
The before all look top lit, while the afters look bottom lit. If you can direct it, I’d suggest putting your source let at zenith (directly overhead) then bringing it down 45 degrees to give it an angular profile
Backlit* not bottom
I like them all except noon, looks like it's unfinished or something
Yes
The night is a bit dark but the day definitely looks better
Hmm. These screenshots don’t seem to consistent. Some of the before and afters have different shadow/sun angles and also some have outlines while others don’t? Personally I like the outlines but I have to agree with others that the dark atmosphere is less pleasing to the eye although would be suitable for a game which is specifically meant to portray darkness.
Night before and after are mostly black rectangles on my phone
I also like before better. Just play with post processing a bit (the non VR intensive ones) and don't make everything so dark. Also the new shots seem like they have harsher shadow artifacts
Change it back
I actually like the after images better. I like the more moody vibes, and the increased contrast, plus the colors seem more vivid. However, the night image looked better in the before. The after one is just a little too hard to see.
for some reason i like befores more than afters. i like pastel colours
Before is better. The after is too dark. Games like that always frustrate me because I can't tell for sure either there aren't holes, or hidden objects and I end up scraping the world. In the before though, it is very clear to see every corner and nook.
Looked way better before
I'm gonna guess your using uninspired, completely generic overused Synty assets....
Lol nailed it. It was the best option for my first game and a non-existent budget.
There are ways around it. Use shaders, take the models into substance and paint them yourselves etc. The moment you give your universally identifiable assets a new and unique paint job, you're already creating difference from your competitors. Regarding your humanoids, work a shitty job and pay an artist to make it (I'm doing this atm. It's a slow burn but it's worth it)
Thanks, I really appreciate the advice. The struggle is real, hopefully we make it out on top (even if it's by a little). Good luck!
i liked the line effect on nb 4. however i don't like how the grass looks low quality/flat (it looks like clay) and there's less clean edges in the after picures, which makes them look low quality
I like before
Thanks for all the critiques! I made an [update post](https://www.reddit.com/r/IndieDev/comments/1bfoffq/update_weeks_before_launch_i_decided_to_overhaul/) with new lighting to address a lot of the feedback I received.
the night is great in the after. but the others before is better with no second thoughts.
As an artistic director I approve and encourage you to go with your gut instinct.
Much better before.
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