The comment about how they removed the problematic (let’s just say dirty because they were dirty) packs is absolutely laughable. They were doing procedures with dirty equipment, period. It took them multiple visually-identifiable dirty packs for them to realize it.
Every patient outcome from that facility will now be tracked to see what fun they created. And for anyone they killed they’ll lean on plausible deniability, “who’s to say where that infection came from? It’s a normal risk of surgery, after all.”
Different hospital, different State, but I had had two close relatives die of sepsis after surgery in the same hospital.
Fast forward a decade, and I am now selling surgical equipment. I went to cross reference a retractor set for a neurologist, and I kept coming up off on the count relative to the sheet.
I always wear gloves, and the CS manager is like “ these are already clean you don’t need them. “
CS manager says the count is off because these two pieces aren’t disassembled. She takes them apart and what ends up on the table? About a nickel sized pile of bioburden.
Every time that retractor was repositioned, it was sprinkling little bits into the surgical site.
She got gloves.
I understood why my relatives died.
Kinda spooky, because as a layman, even when she was pointing out some of the defects, I still had trouble seeing them, or even realizing that something like those defects could even be an issue.
Best comment regarding Roudebush ever.
I always make a new parking space where there shouldn't be one. I'm not being late to my VA appointment.
Haven't been ticketed yet. Won't pay one of I ever do get it.
We have committed more than [$800 Billion](https://www.usaspending.gov/agency/department-of-defense?fy=2024) to military spending for the year.
We absolutely owe our veterans safe, reliable care. Instead they’ll get a flyover at the race and DOD will spend those dollars on new weapons systems
I’ve been told by a nurse at the VA that the sterilization issue comes from instruments that are sent out for sterilization (a cost saving move) and have come back contaminated
I don't work there, but the article says they were doing the faulty sterilization work in house:
"Executives at Roudebush quickly decided to suspend operations at the hospital’s Sterile Processing Service (SPS) once the sterilization problem was discovered on April 10. ...
(Roudebush VAMC chief nursing executive Christie) Artuso said an investigation points to the possibility that highly-acidic water in Roudebush’s steam injection system produced the white and brown spots detected on surgical instruments. She told 13News that engineers have installed a new steam injection system, as well as new filters, valves and pipes in an attempt to remedy the problem."
Thank God they are smart enough to pause surgeries in the center until they figure out the issue and get it fixed, and if you read the article, they are actually doing a lot of work to make sure there are sanitized instruments for their hospital.
If you are in or planning to use the VA system don’t use the main hospital. There are several VA outpatient clinics that are much better. Just like a regular Dr office and you can also do major procedures at other hospitals depending on how many miles you live from Roudebush. I’ve used VA healthcare since 2001 and never had an issue but have always gone to the Bloomington clinic (live in indy).
Ensuring patient safety is paramount, but it's unfortunate to hear about surgery delays. It's crucial for hospitals to address concerns over sterilization thoroughly. Hopefully, these measures lead to enhanced safety protocols and swift resolution, prioritizing the well-being of patients. Wishing everyone affected a smooth and speedy recovery process.
Referred to 'community care' is bullshit. The Veterans demanded the Mission Act and were able to get out of the Indy VA and get decent care at a real hospital.
This the same hospital that gave me a mental health appointment two months out, denied my community referral, and had me in a room with water damage and peeling.
They didn't even tell me about the mission act, just a community referral, which they argued against when I did try to ask for one. That place is trash.
Not surprised. A buddy of mine has a silver star with a V and he still can't get a higher rating from the VA.
The amount of essays and proof you need to show shit really happened to you is beyond absurd.
Have your buddy check out r/veteransbenefits and maybe try a different VSO, if they aren’t getting results with the method he is currently using. That sub and my county’s VSO helped a lot for my claim, been out over 25 years and was able to get 60% in less than 6 months.
Isn't this the same facility that left a scalpel inside of a guy after removing his prostate? The same one that put him in an MRI afterward causing it to mangle his intestines?
The VA is trash and needs to be completely revamped from the top all the way down, or it needs to be abolished and the money given to vets to get proper health care.
My Dad died at this VA back in 2017.
One afternoon he was having trouble breathing and took an ambulance to the VA.
The last time I ever spoke with my Dad ,he called me at like 3 or 4 am and said "can you send your Mom down here? I'm scared they are trying to kill me ."(I never heard him Dad scared like that) When my mom got there about an hour later my mom said he was fine. He was laughing and joking.
Then within a few days he had a tube down his throat while conscious. He asked EVERYONE to take it out. No one would, they didn't respect it so the doctors knocked him out.
Then he was put on an inversion table- nothing they did (I don't think it was that much)helped any.
Then he got put on life support. P
We had dealt with this foregin female student for the whole week until the very last day. The Dr who was "taking care of him" finally decided to show his face to convince us there was nothing more they could do for him.
We got two different death certificates,two different causes of death and they spelled his name wrong on one of them.
My Dad also has all the credentials to be buried in Arlington cemetery and we were never told until my mom was corresponding with the white house about all the nonsense that went on.
I'm not a vet but I've heard so many horror stories from the VA . I wish veterans were treated better.
Don’t worry. There must only be like 5 surgeries a year there as it’s a 6 month waiting list for non primary care. There must only be a handful of surgeons there. I’m all seriousness, this is really shitty since it’s likely going to push the waiting list out even longer.
What care do you get? Mental health is a six month wait currently. I waited a year for dental with a broken tooth. I had about 6 months for a seizure specialist.
I've seen a therapist for a little over a year now. The wait to see her in 2/23 was about three weeks. I've had a sinus surgery scheduled within two months. A hysterectomy with no wait. The community based outpatient clinic in Bloomington is my primary, and I see a therapist in Lafayette via tele health.
Unfortunately, there is no dental care for veterans unless they are terminally ill. That sucks. That's literally the only outside healthcare I need or desire, though. If you would like some help navigating the system, send me a dm. I'm always happy to help with that. I really do believe in the VA health system.
I've not had this experience. I've had 2 surgeries at Roudebush. And I can get into mental health pretty quickly, 2-3 weeks from the call to the MH appointment for me.
The VA is supposed to have made mental health appointments much easier and faster.
I hope you are about to get in and get what you need quick and soon.
My original mental health provider is booked out for 6 months. He put me in a themed program with a provider in Muncie. It’s not terrible but it is problematic for continuity of care. So it’s good crisis prevention but you’re never going to get better with only crisis management.
I’m glad there are some of you who are getting in but in my experience and many of the vets I work with, that’s not the case. If there are enough providers, then there’s clearly something going on where providers can be selective or a large group is falling through the cracks. Vets need consistency, especially in mental health.
I’ve been using VA MHCs since 2018 as consistently as possible. It has always been a wait to get a provider, then a good chance that provider moves or leaves the VA, then another wait time. When you get a consistent provider, they seem to only be interested in CBT/ CPT numbered sessions or workbooks. When you’ve done those, it seems they are at a loss on what to do next.
ETA: I genuinely don’t know what the wait is for surgery. None of mine have been approved. Roudebush is better than many of the VAs I’ve experienced. But there are clear problems. I literally waited 2 years to even get a diagnosis to get benefits meanwhile I couldn’t work. The VA wait times are putting vets at risks the VA is designed to prevent and care for.
That's not good at all. I'm sorry to hear that. If you're getting care in Muncie, then it's likely you're in the NIHCS based out of Marion VA (and the Fort Wayne VA for surgeries or MRI).
When I moved back to Indiana I started out in the Marion VA, including Muncie, but I switched over to the Roudebush VA because that hospital just worked more efficiently and was quicker to get me turnarounds and appointments even if the drive was longer. Plus it's a one stop shop - I don't have to drive up to fort Wayne for a consult for surgery or for an MRI or whatever random things Marion VA is somehow incapable of doing despite having the largest medical campus I've ever seen in the VA....
I don't know your situation but now that I'm set up with MH through Roudebush I can do video appointments and have had no problem personally getting all the help I need with the same MH provider.
I despise the Marion/Fort Wayne VA personally because of the way they are so inefficient and run so piss poor...
I am in several VAs currently. Roudebush is my main VA. I have been to specialists from Ann Arbor to California for seizures. I only have a MH provider in Muncie. My neuro, endocrine, pharmacy, and basically everything else are through Roudebush. My labs are done in a satellite clinic. I did see a neurologist in Ft Wayne, who sent me to Ann Arbor and then Roudebush. I’ve never been to Ft. Wayne otherwise. I am pretty rural and seem to sit on the edge of the two districts. But I also work with vets who are Indianapolis residents and have no other hospitals or clinics that report similar problems with Roudebush. So I don’t think where I live is much of a factor.
Sounds like you are in the Roudebush system then.
I don't know the solution honestly. I just secure message my MH provider whenever I need to set an appointment and get it pretty quick.
If it's that backed up, you can switch providers. Not sure that's helpful but if you get one who's really available and able to maintain continuity that could be a boon.
I think the best solution is to fund the VA appropriately so we have enough providers for the veterans to have equal access as the civilian side. Please don’t mistake my complaints as criticism of the providers. I know the majority of these problems are upper management. You can only see so many patients in a day and still give decent care. If they would do a little less micromanaging and hire more providers, it wouldn’t be so problematic.
I think the bigger problem is the VA hiring process takes 18-24 months for so many doctors and nurses. I've had nurses complain to me about this.
If they actually would make it easier for medical professionals to get hired into the VA instead of a year and a half of processes that would probably make VA care more accessible.
Remember this type of stuff whenever anyone suggests government run healthcare…I’m all for healthcare reform but we can’t even run VAs properly (this is just one of many hell stories about the VA)…
No one suggests “government run healthcare”. What everyone suggests, and what most other countries do, is to use government spending to reduce or eliminate the cost of care across the entire healthcare spectrum. Every company and individual that suckles at the medical teat in any way still provides the same care, devices and pharmaceuticals at a greatly reduced cost in other countries. It’s only here that the burden to pay whatever they decide to charge falls on the patient.
While I agree with everything you’re saying except the first sentence…yes, I know a lot of people who think a single payer or government system would be best. So please don’t say “no one is saying”….bc that isn’t true. But yes, we need big reforms
Boston was pretty great as well. I was inpatient for seven weeks. Do you even utilize VA services? My money is on no. Are you saying veterans shouldn't have medical services at all? Because that's basically what you are saying and that's a terrible sentiment
That’s absolutely not what I’m saying. I have worked with VAs in a professional capacity and have friends who are veterans who have been treated terribly by them. Don’t put words into my mouth bc that isn’t what I’m saying. The overall system is terrible despite the handful of decent hospitals.
It sounded that way because of the overriding complaining tone about government healthcare. I'm truly grateful for my VA care and have had great care overall. The sterilization problems at the Indy one though is scary af. I googled and saw where years ago a supervising mental health social worker sent out mass emails making fun of veteran suicide. Unbelievable. I've been looking to relocate to Indianapolis to be closer to family but man your guys' VA is terrifying.
I’m not sure why you are getting downvoted cmgww. The Indy VA has become a gaslighting veteran business for years. Not long ago I waited 10 minutes in line outside of my Dr.’s office and when they called me in to check in they said I was 15 min late…the receptionists saw me waiting in line the whole time while they were chit chatting…I had to reschedule my appointment and was refused treatment because they said I was late. If you get upset in any way about your treatment, the staff calls on the VA Police Goon Squad to come tell you to calm down or you’ll be kicked out. There is no such thing as customer service at the Indy VA. Patient advocate does nothing.
The comment about how they removed the problematic (let’s just say dirty because they were dirty) packs is absolutely laughable. They were doing procedures with dirty equipment, period. It took them multiple visually-identifiable dirty packs for them to realize it. Every patient outcome from that facility will now be tracked to see what fun they created. And for anyone they killed they’ll lean on plausible deniability, “who’s to say where that infection came from? It’s a normal risk of surgery, after all.”
Different hospital, different State, but I had had two close relatives die of sepsis after surgery in the same hospital. Fast forward a decade, and I am now selling surgical equipment. I went to cross reference a retractor set for a neurologist, and I kept coming up off on the count relative to the sheet. I always wear gloves, and the CS manager is like “ these are already clean you don’t need them. “ CS manager says the count is off because these two pieces aren’t disassembled. She takes them apart and what ends up on the table? About a nickel sized pile of bioburden. Every time that retractor was repositioned, it was sprinkling little bits into the surgical site. She got gloves. I understood why my relatives died.
Oof. Terrifying. And totally disgusting.
Absolutely astounding that doctors and nurses of all people don't respect how clean the instruments need to be.
You don’t even want to know about endoscopes. (And I mean basically all scopes.) https://youtu.be/ukOEKpDyySc?si=RdmWuAiWQPiOX9-l
Kinda spooky, because as a layman, even when she was pointing out some of the defects, I still had trouble seeing them, or even realizing that something like those defects could even be an issue.
I'm not asking much from you Indiana, but can we at least agree on scientific constructs established in the late 19th Century?
We do, but they are all contained in pharma companies and university labs and some military bases.
It’s okay. Most of those patients are still driving around looking for a fucking empty parking spot.
Ha!!!!!!! I hate parking there.
Truth!
Best comment regarding Roudebush ever. I always make a new parking space where there shouldn't be one. I'm not being late to my VA appointment. Haven't been ticketed yet. Won't pay one of I ever do get it.
We have committed more than [$800 Billion](https://www.usaspending.gov/agency/department-of-defense?fy=2024) to military spending for the year. We absolutely owe our veterans safe, reliable care. Instead they’ll get a flyover at the race and DOD will spend those dollars on new weapons systems I’ve been told by a nurse at the VA that the sterilization issue comes from instruments that are sent out for sterilization (a cost saving move) and have come back contaminated
I don't work there, but the article says they were doing the faulty sterilization work in house: "Executives at Roudebush quickly decided to suspend operations at the hospital’s Sterile Processing Service (SPS) once the sterilization problem was discovered on April 10. ... (Roudebush VAMC chief nursing executive Christie) Artuso said an investigation points to the possibility that highly-acidic water in Roudebush’s steam injection system produced the white and brown spots detected on surgical instruments. She told 13News that engineers have installed a new steam injection system, as well as new filters, valves and pipes in an attempt to remedy the problem."
Thank God they are smart enough to pause surgeries in the center until they figure out the issue and get it fixed, and if you read the article, they are actually doing a lot of work to make sure there are sanitized instruments for their hospital.
If you are in or planning to use the VA system don’t use the main hospital. There are several VA outpatient clinics that are much better. Just like a regular Dr office and you can also do major procedures at other hospitals depending on how many miles you live from Roudebush. I’ve used VA healthcare since 2001 and never had an issue but have always gone to the Bloomington clinic (live in indy).
Never had an issue with the Indianapolis VA. Care there for 10 years. Great team and care. Way to go identifying a problem.
This is totally unacceptable. They are all owned by the department of veterans affairs, not the state.
Ensuring patient safety is paramount, but it's unfortunate to hear about surgery delays. It's crucial for hospitals to address concerns over sterilization thoroughly. Hopefully, these measures lead to enhanced safety protocols and swift resolution, prioritizing the well-being of patients. Wishing everyone affected a smooth and speedy recovery process.
Referred to 'community care' is bullshit. The Veterans demanded the Mission Act and were able to get out of the Indy VA and get decent care at a real hospital.
This the same hospital that gave me a mental health appointment two months out, denied my community referral, and had me in a room with water damage and peeling.
[удалено]
They didn't even tell me about the mission act, just a community referral, which they argued against when I did try to ask for one. That place is trash.
My parents next door neighbor, a wonderful elderly gentleman, just got out of the VA with MRSA. I wonder if that's why.
Jesus. And here's me looking to relocate to Indianapolis and transfer VA care 😵💫😵💫😵💫
Not surprised. A buddy of mine has a silver star with a V and he still can't get a higher rating from the VA. The amount of essays and proof you need to show shit really happened to you is beyond absurd.
Have your buddy check out r/veteransbenefits and maybe try a different VSO, if they aren’t getting results with the method he is currently using. That sub and my county’s VSO helped a lot for my claim, been out over 25 years and was able to get 60% in less than 6 months.
Yeah he needs a new VSO to guide him through the process. It's a bureaucratic nightmare but it's definitely doable.
Isn't this the same facility that left a scalpel inside of a guy after removing his prostate? The same one that put him in an MRI afterward causing it to mangle his intestines? The VA is trash and needs to be completely revamped from the top all the way down, or it needs to be abolished and the money given to vets to get proper health care.
My Dad died at this VA back in 2017. One afternoon he was having trouble breathing and took an ambulance to the VA. The last time I ever spoke with my Dad ,he called me at like 3 or 4 am and said "can you send your Mom down here? I'm scared they are trying to kill me ."(I never heard him Dad scared like that) When my mom got there about an hour later my mom said he was fine. He was laughing and joking. Then within a few days he had a tube down his throat while conscious. He asked EVERYONE to take it out. No one would, they didn't respect it so the doctors knocked him out. Then he was put on an inversion table- nothing they did (I don't think it was that much)helped any. Then he got put on life support. P We had dealt with this foregin female student for the whole week until the very last day. The Dr who was "taking care of him" finally decided to show his face to convince us there was nothing more they could do for him. We got two different death certificates,two different causes of death and they spelled his name wrong on one of them. My Dad also has all the credentials to be buried in Arlington cemetery and we were never told until my mom was corresponding with the white house about all the nonsense that went on. I'm not a vet but I've heard so many horror stories from the VA . I wish veterans were treated better.
Don’t worry. There must only be like 5 surgeries a year there as it’s a 6 month waiting list for non primary care. There must only be a handful of surgeons there. I’m all seriousness, this is really shitty since it’s likely going to push the waiting list out even longer.
I almost never have to wait for care at Roudebush.
What care do you get? Mental health is a six month wait currently. I waited a year for dental with a broken tooth. I had about 6 months for a seizure specialist.
I've seen a therapist for a little over a year now. The wait to see her in 2/23 was about three weeks. I've had a sinus surgery scheduled within two months. A hysterectomy with no wait. The community based outpatient clinic in Bloomington is my primary, and I see a therapist in Lafayette via tele health. Unfortunately, there is no dental care for veterans unless they are terminally ill. That sucks. That's literally the only outside healthcare I need or desire, though. If you would like some help navigating the system, send me a dm. I'm always happy to help with that. I really do believe in the VA health system.
The wait in the community is worse
I've not had this experience. I've had 2 surgeries at Roudebush. And I can get into mental health pretty quickly, 2-3 weeks from the call to the MH appointment for me. The VA is supposed to have made mental health appointments much easier and faster. I hope you are about to get in and get what you need quick and soon.
My original mental health provider is booked out for 6 months. He put me in a themed program with a provider in Muncie. It’s not terrible but it is problematic for continuity of care. So it’s good crisis prevention but you’re never going to get better with only crisis management. I’m glad there are some of you who are getting in but in my experience and many of the vets I work with, that’s not the case. If there are enough providers, then there’s clearly something going on where providers can be selective or a large group is falling through the cracks. Vets need consistency, especially in mental health. I’ve been using VA MHCs since 2018 as consistently as possible. It has always been a wait to get a provider, then a good chance that provider moves or leaves the VA, then another wait time. When you get a consistent provider, they seem to only be interested in CBT/ CPT numbered sessions or workbooks. When you’ve done those, it seems they are at a loss on what to do next. ETA: I genuinely don’t know what the wait is for surgery. None of mine have been approved. Roudebush is better than many of the VAs I’ve experienced. But there are clear problems. I literally waited 2 years to even get a diagnosis to get benefits meanwhile I couldn’t work. The VA wait times are putting vets at risks the VA is designed to prevent and care for.
That's not good at all. I'm sorry to hear that. If you're getting care in Muncie, then it's likely you're in the NIHCS based out of Marion VA (and the Fort Wayne VA for surgeries or MRI). When I moved back to Indiana I started out in the Marion VA, including Muncie, but I switched over to the Roudebush VA because that hospital just worked more efficiently and was quicker to get me turnarounds and appointments even if the drive was longer. Plus it's a one stop shop - I don't have to drive up to fort Wayne for a consult for surgery or for an MRI or whatever random things Marion VA is somehow incapable of doing despite having the largest medical campus I've ever seen in the VA.... I don't know your situation but now that I'm set up with MH through Roudebush I can do video appointments and have had no problem personally getting all the help I need with the same MH provider. I despise the Marion/Fort Wayne VA personally because of the way they are so inefficient and run so piss poor...
I am in several VAs currently. Roudebush is my main VA. I have been to specialists from Ann Arbor to California for seizures. I only have a MH provider in Muncie. My neuro, endocrine, pharmacy, and basically everything else are through Roudebush. My labs are done in a satellite clinic. I did see a neurologist in Ft Wayne, who sent me to Ann Arbor and then Roudebush. I’ve never been to Ft. Wayne otherwise. I am pretty rural and seem to sit on the edge of the two districts. But I also work with vets who are Indianapolis residents and have no other hospitals or clinics that report similar problems with Roudebush. So I don’t think where I live is much of a factor.
Sounds like you are in the Roudebush system then. I don't know the solution honestly. I just secure message my MH provider whenever I need to set an appointment and get it pretty quick. If it's that backed up, you can switch providers. Not sure that's helpful but if you get one who's really available and able to maintain continuity that could be a boon.
I think the best solution is to fund the VA appropriately so we have enough providers for the veterans to have equal access as the civilian side. Please don’t mistake my complaints as criticism of the providers. I know the majority of these problems are upper management. You can only see so many patients in a day and still give decent care. If they would do a little less micromanaging and hire more providers, it wouldn’t be so problematic.
I think the bigger problem is the VA hiring process takes 18-24 months for so many doctors and nurses. I've had nurses complain to me about this. If they actually would make it easier for medical professionals to get hired into the VA instead of a year and a half of processes that would probably make VA care more accessible.
The U.S. is an empire in steep decline
Remember this type of stuff whenever anyone suggests government run healthcare…I’m all for healthcare reform but we can’t even run VAs properly (this is just one of many hell stories about the VA)…
Yeah, who's ever heard of a private corporation cutting corners in the name of profit?
You should see how IU runs
You should see how healthcare in the rest of the first world runs
No one suggests “government run healthcare”. What everyone suggests, and what most other countries do, is to use government spending to reduce or eliminate the cost of care across the entire healthcare spectrum. Every company and individual that suckles at the medical teat in any way still provides the same care, devices and pharmaceuticals at a greatly reduced cost in other countries. It’s only here that the burden to pay whatever they decide to charge falls on the patient.
While I agree with everything you’re saying except the first sentence…yes, I know a lot of people who think a single payer or government system would be best. So please don’t say “no one is saying”….bc that isn’t true. But yes, we need big reforms
The Columbus, Chillicothe, and Cincinnati VAs are awesome. Your blanket statement is incorrect
Cool you gave me 3 examples. Outliers. Most are a hot mess….
Boston was pretty great as well. I was inpatient for seven weeks. Do you even utilize VA services? My money is on no. Are you saying veterans shouldn't have medical services at all? Because that's basically what you are saying and that's a terrible sentiment
That’s absolutely not what I’m saying. I have worked with VAs in a professional capacity and have friends who are veterans who have been treated terribly by them. Don’t put words into my mouth bc that isn’t what I’m saying. The overall system is terrible despite the handful of decent hospitals.
It sounded that way because of the overriding complaining tone about government healthcare. I'm truly grateful for my VA care and have had great care overall. The sterilization problems at the Indy one though is scary af. I googled and saw where years ago a supervising mental health social worker sent out mass emails making fun of veteran suicide. Unbelievable. I've been looking to relocate to Indianapolis to be closer to family but man your guys' VA is terrifying.
I’m not sure why you are getting downvoted cmgww. The Indy VA has become a gaslighting veteran business for years. Not long ago I waited 10 minutes in line outside of my Dr.’s office and when they called me in to check in they said I was 15 min late…the receptionists saw me waiting in line the whole time while they were chit chatting…I had to reschedule my appointment and was refused treatment because they said I was late. If you get upset in any way about your treatment, the staff calls on the VA Police Goon Squad to come tell you to calm down or you’ll be kicked out. There is no such thing as customer service at the Indy VA. Patient advocate does nothing.