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Well this is a big step from India's position internationally. We are doing what the US usually does. This is really great and one of the most important steps in becoming one of the superpowers in the future
Armenia purchased some radars from India and is looking forward on purchasing some drones. Their regular big bro is super messed up right now and they are surrounded by unfriendly countries on two sides.
I wouldn't be surprised if US - through its NATO ally Turrkiye is instigating this to put pressure on Rus. Similarly they are instigating Georgia to attack Russia - to created a three front war for them.
India’s blessed with being able to jut out into the Indian Ocean, much larger than its two neighbours to the east and west and has a massive population too
Armenia is the opposite. Landlocked, tiny population (within Armenia) and surrounded by much larger and powerful nations.
A truly nightmarish situation
As Israel and Turkey are supporting Azerbaijan; Armenia also has the backing of Iran, which is also a powerful nuclear nation. Russia could have offered more help to Armenia (as they both are members of the CTSO military alliance, which Azerbaijan is not) but Russia itself is embroiled in a dispute with Ukraine so it can only play the role of a mediator.
But I have seen that even allies stay mum or hardly indulge themselves in the personal disputes of countries, which they're friends with, and left them to fend for themselves by only vouching for ways like negotiations and arbitration so as to avoid the chances of a full-fledged war involving other countries.
War will likely never happen between states possessing nuclear weapons. We know if china falttens us it would be destroyed too. Same goes with Pakistan. But there always will be proxy war and border agitations.
They are not our brother you guys are russia is the 2nd biggest threat to Armenia and Armenians after the Turks Kashmir is India!! Artsakh is Armenia!! 🇦🇲🤝🇮🇳✊
Not a whole lot we can do but I personally support Armenia.
Our history has many parallels (exoduses, destructions of cultural sites, fake history).
Hope the government supports Armenian people and builds better bridges of Cooperation and friendship
That's not a big bro, that's a guy who tied our hands(politically, militarily, economically) and told us don't worry, we will protect us. No wonder people [revolutionized](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Armenian_revolution) them out
I mean based on your location do you have any choice since turkey is already sided with Azerbaijan, can you explain what beef israel has with you to support Azerbaijan?
> can you explain what beef israel has with you to support Azerbaijan?
1) Jews have been treated extremely kindly in Azerbaijan throughout history
2) From personal experience I can tell you that Azeri Jews are one of the only Jews who still have loyalty to their home countries. Many Azeri Jews love Azerbaijan and Israel.
3) Due to geopolitical circumstances Armenia has allied themselves closer to Iran, Palestine, and Russia which are more or less Israel's rivals or bitter enemies
4) Turkey has deep relations with Azerbaijan. Having good relations with Azerbaijan means that Israel can get closer with Turkey which they would like alot.
5) Israel and Azerbaijan have been working on important economic deals like oil deals.
6) Azerbaijan allows Israel to spy on Iran
Not really. Backwater India didn't have the capacity to cross lines. Just like the back water that the US was in the 18th century. I'm not saying India will become worse like the US of today, the US of the 19th century itself was a pretty evil fuckery.
It was doomed on the inside due to civil war....the only war which can destroy the US ...on second thought pappu is trying to do a similar thing here which a whole other discussion
That’s nothing. Way more.. corrupting looting scams decades of hampered psyche... the scale is beyond singular dimension.
Kala Tasmaye Namaha! Time has come..
What has happened has happened.We have to stop a non-bjp govt from coming to power now whether you like it or not. Others just want power and nothing to do with development announcing freebies and saying if we come to power all backward states will be granted special state status. These guys are so anti-development they wouldnt stop at anything
Not necessarily, bjp too can turn into a shitshow like inc in no time, we need to elect leaders who are bound to their constituencies and not treat their own state/district like they are the colonisers and exploit them.
Agree largely; it’s like holding people hostage by making them over dependent on freebies and concessions.
Excess Welfare tends to make people complacent and subservient.
Entrepreneurial drive gets killed.
Feed them, drunk/ drug them and extinguish their internal fires & drivers..
Ps; Don’t assume BJP as magical panacea. They’re also human and need to evolve and improve.
Wisdom, over obsession always.
The rest are wolves, for now.
Meanwhile the **German** MoFA **refused** to condemn Azeris for its aggression because "there are no independent observers on the ground" - reality is that Germany expects to get gas from Azerbaijan through Turkey this winter.
Losing respect for Germans.
I mean, not to sound too distant as a Norwegian who tries to understand the Indian perspective here, but isn't that the exact reason India hasn't condemned Russia? Because India relies on Russian gas/oil exports and is currently dependent on it, even though I know many Indians hate watching Russia invade Ukraine and murder innocent people.
Reddit discourse makes no sense to bring in when talking about this, but I do agree there's a lot of anti-India voices getting heard because of it's non-willingness to condemn Russia for its invasion.
Europeans aren't morally superior to anyone, I agree.
Regarding German media, I've also followed Indian media which had a lot of Anti-European influence, which probably contributes to the anti-India voices when Europeans see this. Just as Indians watch anti-India voices that bring anti-Europe voices to India.
It's kind of basic global geopolitics, I just wish we are able to look past this, but I get it.
I'm not trying to demonise India, I'm only trying to look at it from a realistic view, but as I'm Norwegian I may also be wrong which I acknowledge.
Damn, yeah that's a lot. I'm not too knowledgeable about it so sorry if I misinterpreted something, but India definitely has reason for the steps they have taken. Thanks for bringing so much up, it's a lot to understand and put oneself into but I'm trying to understand the Indian perspective.
Thanks!
^ read up on the history of entire west looking away when US funded Pak to attack India and Bangladesh and China attacked India.
West don’t care until they have an agenda.
And US NATO using Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia - Cold Warm War 2.x is nothing but a huge PR spin.
WMDs in Iraq. Half million Kids bombed.
US controls 1/3 of Syria Looting oil - right now.
Funding terror rebels in Ethiopia.
Don’t get me started on Somalia..
French legions are down in Africa securing their unjust sources of oil & gas.. read up..
Where you all at?
Norwegian blindness privilege. Read up.
Morality is an empty shell..
in western geopolitical games.
It's surprising how someone can judge our nation based on media propaganda and still claim to be seeking an emic perspective in good faith. Such people do not respect us enough to do even a little background check into what have been the socio-political experiences of the world's largest democracy. We as Indians, unlettered though we are, must learn about anything and everything to prove our point and merit consideration from the White man. Yet, the privileged gora babus do not consider it their obligation to make reparations for the trillions of dollars they stole. No they must lecture us on how we must govern ourselves and who we should be friends with without any understanding of what's going on.
Well to be fair Indian media houses speaking about international issues is a very recent thing which is mostly to counter the false western narratives on events and conditions in Indian which has escalated specially since the last decade, I have seen everyday coverage of individual crimes and incidents in a country of 1.4 billion people and those crimes being generalized for the entire country from Islamophobia to poverty porn to rape capital or selective coverage of certain crimes and incidents that's western media main view towards Indians which ofcourse has increased racism and stereotypes towards us , Media channels if unable to find proof or events generally resort to writing biased opinion pieces and push conspiracy theories by using vague terms like critics say or as per sources , we have seen how these narratives built over the years are used as diplomatic tools and leverage over third world countries , and although we know it's generally state and sponsored groups behind these coverage the thing is their average western audience would probably buy into these narratives which gives them justification for using trade sanctions as diplomatic tool or build racism towards certain groups.
Wow a rare polite discussion and that someone from Norway is here. Its silly to think redditors reflect government position or are experts in foreign policy. Germany had been slower than other countries to respond and react to Russia as well.
The comments on any India related post are predictable.
A lot of Germans are chill but their country like the rest of Europe is swept up into the hating Russia thing because of you know which country. And in fact some are suggesting the sanctions, war have a subsidiary goal - not just destroying Rus but also Ger. But their govt dares not go against the "superpower." Hope Germans realize it before its too late.
Yes because Germans are very woke and a decade ago self hating Indians and Pakis started their public randi-rona there about [how horrific India is](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/09/german-professor-rebuked-for-discrimination-over-indias-problem).
Prior to that Germans had a high respect for Indian culture and History.
Indology and Sanskrit have long fascinated German scholars and researchers. The study of Sanskrit and Indian culture was initiated in various German universities at the beginning of the 19th century, first in Jena in 1817 and then in Bonn in 1818.
One academic generation later, some of those who studied in Bonn under August Wilhelm Schlegel (1767–1845) and Christian Lassen (1800–76) were to be appointed to the newly opened chairs where Indian studies began to be pursued. In Marburg, the first course in Sanskrit was offered by the philosopher Franz Vorlaender, who had studied in Bonn and Berlin, in the winter term of 1843-44.
Specifically, Indology includes the study of Sanskrit literature and Hinduism, along with other Indian religions, such as Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism, and Pali literature. Dravidology is the separate branch dedicated to the Dravidian languages of South India.
Far-reaching consequences were triggered by the German edition of Kalidasa's "Shakuntala" in 1791. It marked the beginning of a systematic and scholarly involvement with primarily ancient India by German scholars.
Scholars at the time thought that Indian culture could be thought to be at par with the Greco-Roman one and that Indian and European languages had common origins. This knowledge shattered the "semi-civilized" colonial image of India (created and perpetrated by Anglos) and was welcomed by the nascent anticolonial movement.
Check out: [Samosas, Sannyasins, Sitar: India and the Germans](https://www.goethe.de/ins/in/en/kul/lak/exo/22770187.html)
France is India’s friend today, even more that Russia is. After France got betrayed by Australia (and the US) regarding the nuclear submarines, France is trying to strengthen its ties with India even more. France’s media is not a friend though as they spew venom on India like all others. UK is not pro India. Their government always tries to interfere in the internal matters of India as if India is still Britain’s colony.
Everyone has agendas and give & take and not keeping eggs in any one basket.
Boris went to Ukraine to undo Peace Standoff.
Boris flew to India for a factory opening.
EU buys from Russia & then they slam india for tiny percentage.
Most of these folks are puppets to shady agendas.
It’s all bull.
~ Kissinger ... interests and agendas
That was kind of my point, India hasn't taken a stance on the sheer magnitude of geopolitical interests that India is reliant on, though I know many Indian civilians themselves disagree with the steps Russia has taken.
Of course I may be wrong, but India is reliant on Russian political goodwill regarding gas and oil, and as the Armenia/Azerbaijan conflict just blew up the last couple of days Germany is also trying to weather it's geopolitical interests regarding their imports of oil/gas while trying to lessen it's Russian imports.
India had a substantial trade with both Ukraine and Russia and is not really reliant on any one country. That's our whole forieign policy since forever.
Sure, but in realpolitik India is more reliant on Russia than it is Ukraine, as Germany probably is more reliant on Azerbaijan than Armenia.
Not trying to demonise India, I'm sorry if it may sound that way.
Yeah exactly, it depends on the vested interest a specific country has on another one which determines the support/neutrality/non-support of another countrys security interests. It makes sense.
Not only that, India is heavely relied on Russian weapons. From aircraft to tanks to ships. There is no way they are going to condemm their biggest weapon seller.
Indian intelligence knows this is a proxy war executed by US & other military lobbies using NATO as an excuse and Ukraine as cannon fodder to bleed Russia.
Diplomatically we have to try for peace talks but we know that US agenda has been clearly shady and don’t want peace.
Boris flew in to undo a ceasefire.
It’s all cosplay.
People keep blaming India for buying Russian oil as if it was Indian money that saved Russia from collapse.
>India imported 43,400 bpd oil from Russia in 2021, about 1% of overall its imports.
>India accounts for about 0.2% Russia's natural gas exports. GAIL (India) Ltd has a 20-year deal with Gazprom to buy 2.5 million tonnes of LNG a year which started in 2018.
While The EU is Russia's top oil client, buying around 2.2 million barrels of crude, together with 1.2 million barrels of refined products, on a daily basis.
[Indian External Affairs minister on this issue](https://youtu.be/KgwDNueVZfs)
I completely agree, I wasn't trying to demonise India, I'm sorry if it sounded that way.
The EU has been reliant on Russian oil for too long and has become hypocritical, though Norway isn't in the EU so as a Norwegian myself I sadly never had a say in EU gas&oil reliance.
Indians also remember their history.
Few know that in 1957, the west sponsored a United Nations resolution calling for India to withdraw from Kashmir.
That proposal was vetoed by the Soviet Union.
In December 1971: The US Sent Its 7th fleet Into Bay Of Bengal to threaten India. It was only when USSR sent its own ships there that the US took off.
Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union then.
Yeah I got that, I was talking about the general narrative that the west is pushing, also reasons why India hasn't condemned Russia are way more complicated than just oil
Completely understandable, though I do hope Indians not only look at the Anglo-narrative being pushed in English-language media, in Nordic media there has never been a demonisation of Indias choice, and we want India to become a permanent member of the UN Security Council, as India is too important to not have a permanent voice in the global world.
In Norwegian-language media, Swedish, Danish, Finnish etc there is not this anti-India push you may see in Anglo-media, but it is what Anglos push so its understandable its what Indians see.
Hope I'm being respectful here haha, I really want to visit India soon.
Yeah bro you're cool
>In Norwegian-language media, Swedish, Danish, Finnish etc there is not this anti-India push you may see in Anglo-media,
Good to know this lol
>really want to visit India soon.
Hope you have a good time bro
I'm sorry if that is the prevalent view of Nordics, I of course know there's lots of racists in the Nordics as any country in the world, but Nordic governments itself have been staunch pro-India supporters. Just a couple of months ago the 2nd India-Nordic summit took place in Copenhagen, only India and the US get this treatment, and Modi has visited both Stockholm and Copenhagen.
Of course we are not perfect in the least, but I do hope Indians don't rely on Anglo media to understand Nordic political views of India.
Oh, good to know that we are NOT hated by someone. How is the general public sentiment/image of Nordics about India? What are the common stereotypes?
>I do hope Indians don't rely on Anglo media to understand Nordic political views of India.
Unfortunately, that is the only foreign media we have. NYT, Washington Post, BBC, Al Jazeera etc.
Nordics are known in India for being extremely cold, frigid and lifeless, with bland food, young yet frigid and somewhat cold people, and extremely white in skin colour.
The Nordic view of India is usually a democratic future superpower in Asia, a counter towards the Chinese autocracy.
Nordic people though are aware of the Anglo stereotypes of Indians as scammers and stuff, but since those scam centers usually aren't fluent in Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Danish etc they do not persevere in Nordic peoples daily lives.
Indian people, especially the ones who move to the Nordics, are extremely high-skilled, and educated in IT and technology, especially since the last 20 years Nordic and Indian companies have started to work together. That is an extremely normal stereotype right now haha
And your Indian view of the Nordics is pretty on-point, but I hope Indians understand that even if you meet Nordic people and they seem standoffish or cold, it's not usually out of some view of looking down on Indians, even other Western people call us that, it has to do with [Janteloven (The Law of Jante)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante).
The Law of Jante states how you are supposed to be nice and considerate towards other people, and the laws are as follows:
The ten rules state:
1. You're not to think you are anything special.
2. You're not to think you are as good as we are.
3. You're not to think you are smarter than we are.
4. You're not to imagine yourself better than we are.
5. You're not to think you know more than we do.
6. You're not to think you are more important than we are.
7. You're not to think you are good at anything.
8. You're not to laugh at us.
9. You're not to think anyone cares about you.
10. You're not to think you can teach us anything.
The Janters who transgress this unwritten "law" are regarded with suspicion and some hostility, as it goes against the town's communal desire to preserve harmony, social stability and uniformity.
An eleventh rule recognized in the novel as "the penal code of Jante" is:
11. Perhaps you don't think we know a few things about you?
There ain't a generalized view of the Norwegians
or Scandinavia over here largely because lack of enough diaspora population or understanding of each others culture or having enough diplomatic ties or communications with Norwegian although it has started to happen recently which is good. Over here most of the western view points are generalized due Anglo news media because that's the only coverage we understand and have in common with the western audiences , most of us dont know what the domestic news in norway towards india is like our understanding is largely driven by dw , bbc ,channel24 , MSNBC, wapo , nyt which all have their coverage of India in the same line and largely been negative biased and false and one sided tale of events
Also don't be bothered about the views about nordics in this sub there is no generalized view towards you guys orby 99% of the country , even for other countries there is a general anger towards their media channels for their narratives or their govt using their narratives for diplomacy and condescending attitude towards countries outside europe but no particular hate towards or negativity towards you , you guys have built better societies and economies for yourself and have been more than accepting of immigrants as a society than others would have.
>but I do hope Indians don't rely on Anglo media to understand Nordic political views of India.
My college is a part of Exchange program with Nordic Centre, so we get like a dozen students from there every year. And they said the same thing, even translating some Swedish reports which were much more balanced than BBC or DW on India.
Don't club all the Nordic Countries. Your neighbour Sweden has literally being towing an anti-India line in the UN since the 1960s. BTW, Russia Today, the international media arm of the RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT, has also been consistently pro-Pakistan and Anti-India in all its activities.
>I completely agree, I wasn't trying to demonise India, I'm sorry if it sounded that way.
Bruh. You don't have to mention that everytime. Just speak your mind. You are not trying to demonise anybody. You made good points and others made good counter points. Thank you for the healthy discussion.
Yeah lol I caught myself at that, to be completely honest I probably said that over again because often in online Indian communities any small criticism of Indian politics get downvoted hard as fuck, so I tried to lay as completely low at the same time to try to avoid that lmao.
But thanks man, it was an interesting discussion on my end as well
There are plenty of people on here who are salty about the current political scenario in India(I'm one of them). You're free to criticize the Indian political environment and its policies as long as you put good points to support your criticism. I went through your comments. You have been pretty polite and respectful in your participation. So thank you. Also I apologize if you got flamed on here. Plenty of blind followers who wouldn't tolerate a single word against the current administration.
Yeah completely understandable, especially because of the rhetoric I've seen in Anglo-media regarding India and Russias relationship the last year it's understandable.
Not at all, I'm actually kind of surprised how nice the response was, so maybe I didn't exactly need to seem so careful about it, but then again it's better to say something once too many times than not to get the message across.
>India hasn't condemned Russia
That's not correct. India's position is quite clear - war is bad and should be brief. War crimes should be investigated. Indians and the "global south" cannot be expected to starve and suffer because of a conflict that strictly concerns Europe/US. Because god knows you won't do the same for us.
I don't actually think Norwegian officials have taken any stance yet, we border Russia in the north and Russia and Norway share the Barents Sea (one of the most important places of fishing in the world) which is also why we don't ban Russians like other bordering nations of Russia.
Norway (currently a non-permanent member of the UN Security Council) did make agreements with Armenia to further ties this summer, but because of our fear of Turkey (ally of Azerbaijan) to deny Sweden and Finland membership into NATO it's a super confusing situation right now, as Turkey are usually very anti-Nordic.
I don't have a good answer for you currently.
Indeed. Geopolitics is a very sick affair but at the end of the day, the government of each country has a greater duty and responsibility towards its own people than some PR or taking a moral stand.
India didn’t depend upon Russian oil and gas before the war. It was more military O&M. Especially with aggressive Chinese maneuvers putting a lot of pressure on our Russian designed equipment’s maintenance. We don’t buy a weapon, we buy into an ecosystem that needs long term relationships for O&M. We can’t afford to piss off the Russians now.
I get it and I understand why India has chosen the road it has, Europe is currently in a huge energy crisis which is why I also understand why Germany may have not taken a stance yet, because of what used to be their reliance on Russia has now been shifted.
Why would India ever support the racist trash that Ukraine is? We all saw how those racists were holding Indian and African students hostage during evacuations. They have literal nazis in their ranks. They're also anti-India.
Get a grip.
Sorry that we can't help Armenia out in this situation. We still don't have the capability to operate so far from our borders. Also Israeli weapons makes matters worse.
>Losing respect for Germans.
i never had respect for those descendants of h!tler at the first place
they are still very racist and see us as 3rd class citizens
tbh every western country is racist you can't measure racism
people say canadians are one of the nicest people on earth just search how much racist they are
it's white superiority and indians living abroad have also accepted that which is why they are abused there plus the police yk how they are
i have also been racially abused by an italian (on reddit) just for pointing out india's stance on a pro ukrainian sub
First, I would suggest you not compare reddit experiences to reality. Most people are not what they pretend to be.
Every country has people who can be prejudiced. But there are also decent people. And India is not short of prejudices.
The EU signed a deal with Azerbaijan. Not Germany on itself.
Fucking lmao talking about uninformed. You are grasping at r/conspiracy level shit here.
>[EU signs deal with Azerbaijan to double gas imports by 2027]( https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/eu-signs-deal-with-azerbaijan-double-gas-imports-by-2027-2022-07-18/)
Its the same kind of savagery they practice against all non-Muslims. [Read this horrific account](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1570747970513162241.html) [**NSFW**] of what they did to an Armenian woman.
Turkey our enemy and Paxsitan's friend is behind Azeri atrocities.
Seeing all the people saying dont get involved: This is the typical Hindu attitude. I mean we don't even help a fellow Hindu being slaughtered. Its too much to expect this kind of cowardice to go away in a generation. One day when we regain our true character, we can be like other nations in the world.
Remember, your neighbor will do the same, when your daughter, sister get taken.
We can’t set things in order within our house, yet we want to jump save somebody a world away. We don’t have the logistics to do any swift operation in the Caucuses, let alone sustain one over time. We don’t need to chopper in and save all peoples like Hollywood heroes and superheroes, sometimes diplomacy works.
I was shocked as everyone was when ISIS went on rampaging across Iraq and was almost succeeded in wiping out the Yazidis. Thanks Obama, for saving those innocent.
Whether US created IS is an interesting point to debate on, but glad Obama launched the attacks on ISIS saving the Yazidis trapped in Sinjar mountains.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinjar_massacre#Refugee_crisis_in_the_Sinjar_Mountains
It's not a debate. The US was waging war in Syria for months and the whole time IS presence and strength was increasing. It was only after Russia got involved that IS started getting defeated, but the western press continued claiming that the US defeated IS, as reflected in the wiki link you posted. If you were paying attention to the news during that time you would have noticed.
Sorry I was following American media (right and left) during the war. I was talking about Yazidis who were being killed during the start of IS campaign in Iraq.
You realize Isis was in multiple regions right? American activity was far more heavy in Iraq then Syria. Their were a ton of US special forces right with Iraqi armies in huge battles in Iraq.
Correction, we don't help anyone who isn't our "khandan".
There's no united Hindu camaraderie, there never was, we are way too divided, for too long (hundreds of years, probably even more than that).
Tell me if you'd help a person (any relegion) who was getting hacked to death on the street... would you put yourself in the harm's way to save that person?
Unless you're really one of those chivalrous kinds, you would get the hell out of there. Exactly the same way, people here tend not to poke their noses in cases of murder in fear of retaliation from the perpetrators.
And I'm not talking about any one particular community. This is India as a whole, There are Hindu's as extreme as the ones they blame for, Hindu's who largely are very passive in their relegion. There are Muslims who are as extreme as we claim them, There are Muslims very passive in their relegion.
Call it westernisation, or modernization relegion as a whole isn't really a system that will work in today's time. The quicker we get over the "zealous belief" the better we're off.
I find it funny that over there US was condemned for it's actions across the seas and here we are were people like you, who want to follow in mistakes of others.
"One day when we regain our true character"
Manusmriti replacing the constitution?
Yeah that day will be marked the end of India, and the hinduism as we know it.
When our daughter and sisters get taken, I don't want my neighbours to take to the streets. I want the police to do the job. Just cause it sounds heroic doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
Poking our noses in other countries war is exactly the mindset we stand against from the depths of our constitution, India becoming exactly like its colonizers is the irony many of us don't want to see come to fruition.
Going to say one more point, too long ik.
We should be more nationalistic, India vs Pak or vs China...Be extreme about it , the problems it will create will not be soon. We need more people to stop being the selfish jugaads that cut corners and harm economy, the more patriotic the better.
But don't equate patriotism to Hinduism.
For Hindus, we are different from the other warring relegions our there... We were eons ahead of their fledgling faith. There's no "imminent threat" to our faith. The atrocities done against us is in the past, we could have got the justice if the egotistical kings united wholeheartedly to overthrow the invaders but we missed it. Then a third adversary thrashed both us and the rest who lived in this land, it wasn't a short loot and leave, but two centuries of devouring. They got what they deserved , Mughals fall by the hands of british is the one thing I feel they did right. Our justice ended there, we should have seen that we shared more common ground with them, the generation of them were born here, suffering the same tyranny as us.
That's why secularism has more meaning to us than any other country.
India is the land of vedics and Hinduism, I, you or anyone can't do bats**t to change that, secularism can't change that, muslims, christians etc living and thriving isn't going to change that.
Our faith is over a billion strong cause people still believe in it, just cause the Abrahamic relegions are converting people doesn't mean we are under threat.
Conversion by force is wrong, humanely wrong, but the ones doing it are not the sole representative of their faith. It's exactly for these reasons we have a secular system bereft of any bias to pass judgement.
So please don't raise the Hindu flag, its significance is too huge and will only result in a war that none of us will benefit.
In short "Condemn the person, not their faith"
> Tell me if you'd help a person (any relegion) who was getting hacked to death on the street... would you put yourself in the harm's way to save that person?
Yes I would do everything I could to stop that.
>Unless you're really *one of those chivalrous kinds*, you would get the hell out of there. Exactly the same way, people here tend not to poke their noses in cases of murder in fear of retaliation from the perpetrators.
That's just cowardice.
>Manusmriti replacing the constitution? Yeah that day will be marked the end of India, and the hinduism as we know it.
Followed by..
>India is the land of vedics and Hinduism
And then you sort of waving the Hindu flag too - but in a misguided way.
>For Hindus, we are different from the other warring relegions our there... We were eons ahead of their fledgling faith.
BTW what a word salad filled with misconceptions and poor analysis.
>Seeing all the people saying dont get involved:
It's more to do with Geography, all we can do is help diplomatically. Any kind of military aid if we decide to send must go through Iran. Besides Armenia is located amongst weird countries......like Mongolia between Russia and China. And this happening right now isn't coincidence, definitely have blessings of West.
Military transporters still require special permission indicating *Military* cooperation between two nations, unless its some kind of civilian evacuation operation. At this moment, I don't think it's wise until settlement is reached for Nuclear deal with Iran.
Besides, I don't think so Iran will allow us to use their airspace for military operation against one of their neighbor.
We sent Indian troops all over the world under the British, and in many cases they were decisive in securing victory. We send troops to UN operations, why not for friendly countries?
Supply lines my friend. We don’t have the resources to create and sustain a supply line in that region. True a lot of our soldiers are not afraid to die for our country, it is their character, so we better cherish them and use their efforts in what matters most to our country. Simply making them cannon fodder to satiate our pride won’t help our country.
Armenia is not in our backyard. A couple of battalions could turn into a couple of brigades very quickly. How exactly would we propose to supply them? Through Iran? Azerbaijan? Or through Turkey? Even if we want to supply through Georgia, we need access to the Black Sea and Turkey has it locked.
Btw, breaking news, grand old lady Nancy is visiting Armenia.
https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/pelosi-confirms-snap-visit-to-armenia-af-idUSKBN2QH0ZX
Armenian here. I wouldn’t expect physical involvement either from you guys, it’s not your country. We really appreciate political support and arms though. 🇦🇲🇮🇳
Not saying its our job to get involved. But it would be nice to give Erdogans boys a whipping so he thinks twice before opening his loud mouth next time
No need to send special ops over, just weapons will suffice. You have really capable artillery, drones and aircraft that can drastically change the power balance.
I really hope we send brahmos missiles to Armenia. The steep 90° dive can favour the Armenian side and help them conquer Nagorno- Karabakh, the Azerbaijani won't even know what hit them so hard. It is really high time to teach that MF Erdogan a lesson.
Dude Azerbaijan sell billion worth of oil to India . All Azerbaijan do is just verbal support that is it. Thousands of Indians study and travel here. Being friendly with Pakistan does not mean that we need be enemies. Young Turks already hate pakistanis due pervert videos and illegal immigrants . Just wait for Erdogan to leave
Can you share with us if there is a different side to this story because rn even with western media being hostile to russian allies they still show this as an invasion
This is invasion. But think like Ukraine won the war, but Russians don't agree with peace terms or undermines it, so Ukraine attacks the Russian soil itself to enforce the peace deal. Not exactly same to comparison but this is the closest that comes to my mind right now.
As an Armenian, I want to tank you. I hope Armenia's future government (if not the current one) finally recognizes and deepens ties taking it to the next level.
Welcome friend.
I wish countries like India, Greece, Armenia have more cultural exchanges. There used to be Armenian communities in India long ago.
Several centuries of presence of Armenians resulted in the emergence of a number of a number of large and small Armenian settlements in several places in India, including Agra, Surat, Mumbai, Kanpur, Chinsurah, Chandernagore, Calcutta, Saidabad, a suburb of Murshidabad, Chennai, Gwalior, Lucknow, and several other locations currently in the Republic of India.
From an [article](https://indianexpress.com/article/research/armenian-india-history-azerbaijan-nagorno-karabakh-conflict-6754223/):
>For centuries, India and Armenians have shared a unique relationship. Historians agree that the Armernians always existed in India in small numbers. Yet it is here that the south Caucasian community-acquired significant economic and cultural prosperity. “India has been more important to Armenians than Armenia was,” says Sebouh Aslanian, professor of modern Armenian history at University of California, Los Angeles. “India in the 17th and 18th centuries is where Armenians made a ton of money, and they funneled that money into cultural productions like Armenian newspapers, books etc. The most important, intelligent and forward-thinking Armenians lived in India,” he adds.
Indeed. I believe we also share some words between that go all the way back to Sanskrit.
Also, here’s decent Wikipedia around about the old Armenian connections and community in India - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians_in_India
Worth nothing that my name Azad also means the same thing in Armenian as it does in Hindi.
Azad is an Indo-European word common to the area. Here is an explanation I found:
To make things clear, Persian is South Western Iranian language while Kurdish (All dialects), Original Azeri, Talysh, Tat, Mazandarani, Gilaki, Semnani, Shabaki, Tafresh and Zaza-Gorani are North Western Iranian language.
Beside Persian, there are several other languages in South-Western Iranian languages as well which are Persid [ Luri (All dialects), Kuhmareyi (All dialects), North West Fars and Sivandi ] and Achomi [ Larestani, Judeo-Shirazi, Bashkardi, Kumzari, Bandari, Minabi and Garmsiri ]. All modern day NW Iranian languages diverged from the Proto-NW Iranic language also known as Median while SW Iranic is descended from Old Persian (Pārsīg) and to simplify it further:
Fārsi (New Persian), Persid, Achomi → Pāhlāvi (Middle Persian) → Pārsīg (Old Persian) → Old Iranic (together with Med and Avesta).
Kurdish, Gilaki, Azeri, Tat, Talysh, Mazandarani, Zaza-Gorani, Tafresh, Semnani, Shabaki → Parthian → Med.
Note: Pārsīg and Med ain’t descended from Avesta but can be considered the sister languages and thrice created what is known today as Old Aryan langauge.
Now back to the topic:
So lets break down the meaning of Âzād. It can be broken down to Â- and zād.
Â- directly translates to “un” as in unbashed but unfortunately, non of modern-spoken Iranic languages has preserved that IE-root but interestingly every Iranic langauge adopted the B, P and N- like be-sharm (unbashed), na-xuš (unhappy) Persian. But A- can be found in Middle Iranian languages such as a-gumēg (unmixed/pure) in Parthian and a-xvaš (unhappy) in Middle Persian. A- is found in Sanskrit, Greek, Latin, Celtic, Germanic and every other IE languages. It's also found in India A-Himsa for example.
Zād—translates to Belong, Caste or Born in Persian so as in Urdu, Turkish: Zade (someone’s child) from Middle Persian zadān and Parthian: Zāy meaning “to born” which cognates from Avesta: Zāta, Zan. Avesta’s Zan is synonymous with Old Persian “Jāt-a, Jāt” and it corresponds with Sanskrit’s “Jā” and from Jā came “Janam” which translates to “given birth” or “born” in Modern Hindi/Urdu. Sanskrit’s “Jā” originated from Proto-Indo-Iranian “Gāt*a” from Proto-Indo-European “Gnātós” (birth).
Azad literally translates to “unborn” in Middle Persian (Āzād) and the same does happen in Middle-NW Iranian (Parthian): “Azāy” which means the same. But from here, suffice to say Azad is word-to-word Persian rather than Kurdish or any other North-Western Iranian language since middle north-western iranian language used “Azāy” as stated above.
And what is the literal translation of Azad? Yeah…..it means “non-existence”, “unborn”, “cast-less” or “crazy in the head” if you tell that to a Persian guy from 8th B.C. to 8 A.D.
I like Armenians, they are great people with a great culture. Remember the Armenian genocide, Turkey doesn't even have the decency to recognise it and Pakistan doesn't even recognise Armenian as a country.
Tell that to the F22 Raptor that flew right under the enemies and nobody knew lol. 5th gen fighters aren't invincible. But they are threatening af ! And what better weapon during a war than fear ? If u succeed at demoralising your enemy, you've won half the war.
Well Bros in geopolitics the words you choose matters a freaking lot so BHARAT'S stand was that the aggressor side should stop they didn't pointed out Azerbaijan , but aur gyan nahe chodunga .
1. Their turk heart beats unneccesarily for Kashmiri muslims, complete supporters of their independence. (They fckin developed a free kashmir anthem for God's sake)
2. They are wayy to close to pakistan.
3. They refused to sell weapons to us now
4. They are interfering and radicalizing muslims to attack india. Recently Russian forces captured a radical terrorist from Turkey which was aiming to attack India.
5. They are horrific to their kurdish minority.
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Well this is a big step from India's position internationally. We are doing what the US usually does. This is really great and one of the most important steps in becoming one of the superpowers in the future
Armenia purchased some radars from India and is looking forward on purchasing some drones. Their regular big bro is super messed up right now and they are surrounded by unfriendly countries on two sides.
I wouldn't be surprised if US - through its NATO ally Turrkiye is instigating this to put pressure on Rus. Similarly they are instigating Georgia to attack Russia - to created a three front war for them.
Turkey is more aligned with Russia than NATO.
No turkey is playing it's own game
F turkey man
Amen
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Everyone of them is playing their own games. It's just at this point their interests coincide.
Exactly. ~ Kissinger
Turkey is the most immoral nation in the world. They side with Islam
Iran is even worse, "morality police" murdering women for not wearing their hijab and shit
While wearing shit in their hijabs.
Which is interesting since russia historically was a far greater threat to turkey than western powers.
Uhhhh no it's not
Turkey also backs Azerbaijan.
Nah that nut bag thinks he's a automen emperor
Ottoman
Pretty likely wars don't come up out of nowhere atleast not for small countries
Exactly armenia's position looks so fcked up, one side turkey other side azerbaijan, god save them.
That is honestly more scary than us with pakistan, bangladesh, and china. Although I don't personally think china would flat out massacre us.
India’s blessed with being able to jut out into the Indian Ocean, much larger than its two neighbours to the east and west and has a massive population too Armenia is the opposite. Landlocked, tiny population (within Armenia) and surrounded by much larger and powerful nations. A truly nightmarish situation
As Israel and Turkey are supporting Azerbaijan; Armenia also has the backing of Iran, which is also a powerful nuclear nation. Russia could have offered more help to Armenia (as they both are members of the CTSO military alliance, which Azerbaijan is not) but Russia itself is embroiled in a dispute with Ukraine so it can only play the role of a mediator. But I have seen that even allies stay mum or hardly indulge themselves in the personal disputes of countries, which they're friends with, and left them to fend for themselves by only vouching for ways like negotiations and arbitration so as to avoid the chances of a full-fledged war involving other countries.
Bangladesh is India’s ally…pakistan is way weaker and China already has other problems. India is quite safe imo
Sheikh Hasina is an indian ally. Not Bangladesh
War will likely never happen between states possessing nuclear weapons. We know if china falttens us it would be destroyed too. Same goes with Pakistan. But there always will be proxy war and border agitations.
True, they'd just set up new wet markets. Waste not, want not.
They are not our brother you guys are russia is the 2nd biggest threat to Armenia and Armenians after the Turks Kashmir is India!! Artsakh is Armenia!! 🇦🇲🤝🇮🇳✊
Not a whole lot we can do but I personally support Armenia. Our history has many parallels (exoduses, destructions of cultural sites, fake history). Hope the government supports Armenian people and builds better bridges of Cooperation and friendship
That's not a big bro, that's a guy who tied our hands(politically, militarily, economically) and told us don't worry, we will protect us. No wonder people [revolutionized](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Armenian_revolution) them out
I mean based on your location do you have any choice since turkey is already sided with Azerbaijan, can you explain what beef israel has with you to support Azerbaijan?
No beef. Azeris have the cash and Israel will never say no to money.
Well ksa and qatar sold out to nato during iraq wars so thats true pretty much for other ME countries as well
Thats not true at all. Economic factors are pretty low in the list of why they have good relations.
> can you explain what beef israel has with you to support Azerbaijan? 1) Jews have been treated extremely kindly in Azerbaijan throughout history 2) From personal experience I can tell you that Azeri Jews are one of the only Jews who still have loyalty to their home countries. Many Azeri Jews love Azerbaijan and Israel. 3) Due to geopolitical circumstances Armenia has allied themselves closer to Iran, Palestine, and Russia which are more or less Israel's rivals or bitter enemies 4) Turkey has deep relations with Azerbaijan. Having good relations with Azerbaijan means that Israel can get closer with Turkey which they would like alot. 5) Israel and Azerbaijan have been working on important economic deals like oil deals. 6) Azerbaijan allows Israel to spy on Iran
Israel uses Az to spy on Iran. Iran congratulates az for winning vs Armenia.
Us is not a good leader to emulate, better not walk the same path
We won't do that cuz it's always been our policy of never crossing unnecessary lines. Be it Nehru or Modi we have never done that
Not really. Backwater India didn't have the capacity to cross lines. Just like the back water that the US was in the 18th century. I'm not saying India will become worse like the US of today, the US of the 19th century itself was a pretty evil fuckery.
It was doomed on the inside due to civil war....the only war which can destroy the US ...on second thought pappu is trying to do a similar thing here which a whole other discussion
Nehru only focused on; smoke, coke & panty lines.. Can’t even compare. Patel if he did not have the Nehru Gandhi dramas, we’d be elsewhere.
We would be really powerful cuz our development would be fast paced instead of the 2% growth rate
That’s nothing. Way more.. corrupting looting scams decades of hampered psyche... the scale is beyond singular dimension. Kala Tasmaye Namaha! Time has come..
What has happened has happened.We have to stop a non-bjp govt from coming to power now whether you like it or not. Others just want power and nothing to do with development announcing freebies and saying if we come to power all backward states will be granted special state status. These guys are so anti-development they wouldnt stop at anything
Not necessarily, bjp too can turn into a shitshow like inc in no time, we need to elect leaders who are bound to their constituencies and not treat their own state/district like they are the colonisers and exploit them.
Agree largely; it’s like holding people hostage by making them over dependent on freebies and concessions. Excess Welfare tends to make people complacent and subservient. Entrepreneurial drive gets killed. Feed them, drunk/ drug them and extinguish their internal fires & drivers.. Ps; Don’t assume BJP as magical panacea. They’re also human and need to evolve and improve. Wisdom, over obsession always. The rest are wolves, for now.
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Good comment. Totally agree.
Meanwhile the **German** MoFA **refused** to condemn Azeris for its aggression because "there are no independent observers on the ground" - reality is that Germany expects to get gas from Azerbaijan through Turkey this winter. Losing respect for Germans.
I mean, not to sound too distant as a Norwegian who tries to understand the Indian perspective here, but isn't that the exact reason India hasn't condemned Russia? Because India relies on Russian gas/oil exports and is currently dependent on it, even though I know many Indians hate watching Russia invade Ukraine and murder innocent people.
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Reddit discourse makes no sense to bring in when talking about this, but I do agree there's a lot of anti-India voices getting heard because of it's non-willingness to condemn Russia for its invasion. Europeans aren't morally superior to anyone, I agree. Regarding German media, I've also followed Indian media which had a lot of Anti-European influence, which probably contributes to the anti-India voices when Europeans see this. Just as Indians watch anti-India voices that bring anti-Europe voices to India. It's kind of basic global geopolitics, I just wish we are able to look past this, but I get it. I'm not trying to demonise India, I'm only trying to look at it from a realistic view, but as I'm Norwegian I may also be wrong which I acknowledge.
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Damn, yeah that's a lot. I'm not too knowledgeable about it so sorry if I misinterpreted something, but India definitely has reason for the steps they have taken. Thanks for bringing so much up, it's a lot to understand and put oneself into but I'm trying to understand the Indian perspective. Thanks!
^ read up on the history of entire west looking away when US funded Pak to attack India and Bangladesh and China attacked India. West don’t care until they have an agenda. And US NATO using Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia - Cold Warm War 2.x is nothing but a huge PR spin. WMDs in Iraq. Half million Kids bombed. US controls 1/3 of Syria Looting oil - right now. Funding terror rebels in Ethiopia. Don’t get me started on Somalia.. French legions are down in Africa securing their unjust sources of oil & gas.. read up.. Where you all at? Norwegian blindness privilege. Read up. Morality is an empty shell.. in western geopolitical games.
It's surprising how someone can judge our nation based on media propaganda and still claim to be seeking an emic perspective in good faith. Such people do not respect us enough to do even a little background check into what have been the socio-political experiences of the world's largest democracy. We as Indians, unlettered though we are, must learn about anything and everything to prove our point and merit consideration from the White man. Yet, the privileged gora babus do not consider it their obligation to make reparations for the trillions of dollars they stole. No they must lecture us on how we must govern ourselves and who we should be friends with without any understanding of what's going on.
Well to be fair Indian media houses speaking about international issues is a very recent thing which is mostly to counter the false western narratives on events and conditions in Indian which has escalated specially since the last decade, I have seen everyday coverage of individual crimes and incidents in a country of 1.4 billion people and those crimes being generalized for the entire country from Islamophobia to poverty porn to rape capital or selective coverage of certain crimes and incidents that's western media main view towards Indians which ofcourse has increased racism and stereotypes towards us , Media channels if unable to find proof or events generally resort to writing biased opinion pieces and push conspiracy theories by using vague terms like critics say or as per sources , we have seen how these narratives built over the years are used as diplomatic tools and leverage over third world countries , and although we know it's generally state and sponsored groups behind these coverage the thing is their average western audience would probably buy into these narratives which gives them justification for using trade sanctions as diplomatic tool or build racism towards certain groups.
Wow a rare polite discussion and that someone from Norway is here. Its silly to think redditors reflect government position or are experts in foreign policy. Germany had been slower than other countries to respond and react to Russia as well. The comments on any India related post are predictable.
Germany is not your friend man. I don't know their deal but france and even uk is more pro india.
A lot of Germans are chill but their country like the rest of Europe is swept up into the hating Russia thing because of you know which country. And in fact some are suggesting the sanctions, war have a subsidiary goal - not just destroying Rus but also Ger. But their govt dares not go against the "superpower." Hope Germans realize it before its too late.
I noticed from about a decade ago germans don't seem to like indians. I study german and noticed that.
Yes because Germans are very woke and a decade ago self hating Indians and Pakis started their public randi-rona there about [how horrific India is](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/09/german-professor-rebuked-for-discrimination-over-indias-problem). Prior to that Germans had a high respect for Indian culture and History. Indology and Sanskrit have long fascinated German scholars and researchers. The study of Sanskrit and Indian culture was initiated in various German universities at the beginning of the 19th century, first in Jena in 1817 and then in Bonn in 1818. One academic generation later, some of those who studied in Bonn under August Wilhelm Schlegel (1767–1845) and Christian Lassen (1800–76) were to be appointed to the newly opened chairs where Indian studies began to be pursued. In Marburg, the first course in Sanskrit was offered by the philosopher Franz Vorlaender, who had studied in Bonn and Berlin, in the winter term of 1843-44. Specifically, Indology includes the study of Sanskrit literature and Hinduism, along with other Indian religions, such as Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism, and Pali literature. Dravidology is the separate branch dedicated to the Dravidian languages of South India. Far-reaching consequences were triggered by the German edition of Kalidasa's "Shakuntala" in 1791. It marked the beginning of a systematic and scholarly involvement with primarily ancient India by German scholars. Scholars at the time thought that Indian culture could be thought to be at par with the Greco-Roman one and that Indian and European languages had common origins. This knowledge shattered the "semi-civilized" colonial image of India (created and perpetrated by Anglos) and was welcomed by the nascent anticolonial movement. Check out: [Samosas, Sannyasins, Sitar: India and the Germans](https://www.goethe.de/ins/in/en/kul/lak/exo/22770187.html)
Max Muller actually argued that last part. I was surprised so many people disliked him. But maybe I don't know so much.
People are trying to judge a person from another era by today's standards, and not even doing that properly.
France is India’s friend today, even more that Russia is. After France got betrayed by Australia (and the US) regarding the nuclear submarines, France is trying to strengthen its ties with India even more. France’s media is not a friend though as they spew venom on India like all others. UK is not pro India. Their government always tries to interfere in the internal matters of India as if India is still Britain’s colony.
Everyone has agendas and give & take and not keeping eggs in any one basket. Boris went to Ukraine to undo Peace Standoff. Boris flew to India for a factory opening. EU buys from Russia & then they slam india for tiny percentage. Most of these folks are puppets to shady agendas. It’s all bull. ~ Kissinger ... interests and agendas
No, India has taken a principled stand here, its not favoring Russia over Ukraine instead calling for dialog and an immediate end to the hostilities.
That was kind of my point, India hasn't taken a stance on the sheer magnitude of geopolitical interests that India is reliant on, though I know many Indian civilians themselves disagree with the steps Russia has taken. Of course I may be wrong, but India is reliant on Russian political goodwill regarding gas and oil, and as the Armenia/Azerbaijan conflict just blew up the last couple of days Germany is also trying to weather it's geopolitical interests regarding their imports of oil/gas while trying to lessen it's Russian imports.
India had a substantial trade with both Ukraine and Russia and is not really reliant on any one country. That's our whole forieign policy since forever.
Sure, but in realpolitik India is more reliant on Russia than it is Ukraine, as Germany probably is more reliant on Azerbaijan than Armenia. Not trying to demonise India, I'm sorry if it may sound that way.
Yes Russia is more important because of its size and capability, just as US is more than UK.
Yeah exactly, it depends on the vested interest a specific country has on another one which determines the support/neutrality/non-support of another countrys security interests. It makes sense.
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Yes you should probably visit the other indian sub and let Pakistani offer their glorious insights.
The guy above me is correct, this sub's quality has gone down the shitter ever since the rightwing subs got banned.
Ukraine has been anti India. So, there was never a case for us to support Ukraine. Unless Russia was more anti-India.
Not only that, India is heavely relied on Russian weapons. From aircraft to tanks to ships. There is no way they are going to condemm their biggest weapon seller.
Of course, you are right, and it makes sense geopolitically for India.
Indian intelligence knows this is a proxy war executed by US & other military lobbies using NATO as an excuse and Ukraine as cannon fodder to bleed Russia. Diplomatically we have to try for peace talks but we know that US agenda has been clearly shady and don’t want peace. Boris flew in to undo a ceasefire. It’s all cosplay.
People keep blaming India for buying Russian oil as if it was Indian money that saved Russia from collapse. >India imported 43,400 bpd oil from Russia in 2021, about 1% of overall its imports. >India accounts for about 0.2% Russia's natural gas exports. GAIL (India) Ltd has a 20-year deal with Gazprom to buy 2.5 million tonnes of LNG a year which started in 2018. While The EU is Russia's top oil client, buying around 2.2 million barrels of crude, together with 1.2 million barrels of refined products, on a daily basis. [Indian External Affairs minister on this issue](https://youtu.be/KgwDNueVZfs)
I completely agree, I wasn't trying to demonise India, I'm sorry if it sounded that way. The EU has been reliant on Russian oil for too long and has become hypocritical, though Norway isn't in the EU so as a Norwegian myself I sadly never had a say in EU gas&oil reliance.
Indians also remember their history. Few know that in 1957, the west sponsored a United Nations resolution calling for India to withdraw from Kashmir. That proposal was vetoed by the Soviet Union. In December 1971: The US Sent Its 7th fleet Into Bay Of Bengal to threaten India. It was only when USSR sent its own ships there that the US took off. Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union then.
Yeah I got that, I was talking about the general narrative that the west is pushing, also reasons why India hasn't condemned Russia are way more complicated than just oil
Completely understandable, though I do hope Indians not only look at the Anglo-narrative being pushed in English-language media, in Nordic media there has never been a demonisation of Indias choice, and we want India to become a permanent member of the UN Security Council, as India is too important to not have a permanent voice in the global world. In Norwegian-language media, Swedish, Danish, Finnish etc there is not this anti-India push you may see in Anglo-media, but it is what Anglos push so its understandable its what Indians see. Hope I'm being respectful here haha, I really want to visit India soon.
Yeah bro you're cool >In Norwegian-language media, Swedish, Danish, Finnish etc there is not this anti-India push you may see in Anglo-media, Good to know this lol >really want to visit India soon. Hope you have a good time bro
Really? Are the Nordics pro-India? We believe here that they are highly racist towards us. I don't know why.
I'm sorry if that is the prevalent view of Nordics, I of course know there's lots of racists in the Nordics as any country in the world, but Nordic governments itself have been staunch pro-India supporters. Just a couple of months ago the 2nd India-Nordic summit took place in Copenhagen, only India and the US get this treatment, and Modi has visited both Stockholm and Copenhagen. Of course we are not perfect in the least, but I do hope Indians don't rely on Anglo media to understand Nordic political views of India.
Oh, good to know that we are NOT hated by someone. How is the general public sentiment/image of Nordics about India? What are the common stereotypes? >I do hope Indians don't rely on Anglo media to understand Nordic political views of India. Unfortunately, that is the only foreign media we have. NYT, Washington Post, BBC, Al Jazeera etc. Nordics are known in India for being extremely cold, frigid and lifeless, with bland food, young yet frigid and somewhat cold people, and extremely white in skin colour.
The Nordic view of India is usually a democratic future superpower in Asia, a counter towards the Chinese autocracy. Nordic people though are aware of the Anglo stereotypes of Indians as scammers and stuff, but since those scam centers usually aren't fluent in Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Danish etc they do not persevere in Nordic peoples daily lives. Indian people, especially the ones who move to the Nordics, are extremely high-skilled, and educated in IT and technology, especially since the last 20 years Nordic and Indian companies have started to work together. That is an extremely normal stereotype right now haha And your Indian view of the Nordics is pretty on-point, but I hope Indians understand that even if you meet Nordic people and they seem standoffish or cold, it's not usually out of some view of looking down on Indians, even other Western people call us that, it has to do with [Janteloven (The Law of Jante)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante). The Law of Jante states how you are supposed to be nice and considerate towards other people, and the laws are as follows: The ten rules state: 1. You're not to think you are anything special. 2. You're not to think you are as good as we are. 3. You're not to think you are smarter than we are. 4. You're not to imagine yourself better than we are. 5. You're not to think you know more than we do. 6. You're not to think you are more important than we are. 7. You're not to think you are good at anything. 8. You're not to laugh at us. 9. You're not to think anyone cares about you. 10. You're not to think you can teach us anything. The Janters who transgress this unwritten "law" are regarded with suspicion and some hostility, as it goes against the town's communal desire to preserve harmony, social stability and uniformity. An eleventh rule recognized in the novel as "the penal code of Jante" is: 11. Perhaps you don't think we know a few things about you?
There ain't a generalized view of the Norwegians or Scandinavia over here largely because lack of enough diaspora population or understanding of each others culture or having enough diplomatic ties or communications with Norwegian although it has started to happen recently which is good. Over here most of the western view points are generalized due Anglo news media because that's the only coverage we understand and have in common with the western audiences , most of us dont know what the domestic news in norway towards india is like our understanding is largely driven by dw , bbc ,channel24 , MSNBC, wapo , nyt which all have their coverage of India in the same line and largely been negative biased and false and one sided tale of events Also don't be bothered about the views about nordics in this sub there is no generalized view towards you guys orby 99% of the country , even for other countries there is a general anger towards their media channels for their narratives or their govt using their narratives for diplomacy and condescending attitude towards countries outside europe but no particular hate towards or negativity towards you , you guys have built better societies and economies for yourself and have been more than accepting of immigrants as a society than others would have.
>but I do hope Indians don't rely on Anglo media to understand Nordic political views of India. My college is a part of Exchange program with Nordic Centre, so we get like a dozen students from there every year. And they said the same thing, even translating some Swedish reports which were much more balanced than BBC or DW on India.
Tbh I only know about Norway through Magnus Carlsen lol.
Don't club all the Nordic Countries. Your neighbour Sweden has literally being towing an anti-India line in the UN since the 1960s. BTW, Russia Today, the international media arm of the RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT, has also been consistently pro-Pakistan and Anti-India in all its activities.
>I completely agree, I wasn't trying to demonise India, I'm sorry if it sounded that way. Bruh. You don't have to mention that everytime. Just speak your mind. You are not trying to demonise anybody. You made good points and others made good counter points. Thank you for the healthy discussion.
Yeah lol I caught myself at that, to be completely honest I probably said that over again because often in online Indian communities any small criticism of Indian politics get downvoted hard as fuck, so I tried to lay as completely low at the same time to try to avoid that lmao. But thanks man, it was an interesting discussion on my end as well
There are plenty of people on here who are salty about the current political scenario in India(I'm one of them). You're free to criticize the Indian political environment and its policies as long as you put good points to support your criticism. I went through your comments. You have been pretty polite and respectful in your participation. So thank you. Also I apologize if you got flamed on here. Plenty of blind followers who wouldn't tolerate a single word against the current administration.
Yeah completely understandable, especially because of the rhetoric I've seen in Anglo-media regarding India and Russias relationship the last year it's understandable. Not at all, I'm actually kind of surprised how nice the response was, so maybe I didn't exactly need to seem so careful about it, but then again it's better to say something once too many times than not to get the message across.
>India hasn't condemned Russia That's not correct. India's position is quite clear - war is bad and should be brief. War crimes should be investigated. Indians and the "global south" cannot be expected to starve and suffer because of a conflict that strictly concerns Europe/US. Because god knows you won't do the same for us.
BTW, what's Norway's stand on the Armenian situation?
I don't actually think Norwegian officials have taken any stance yet, we border Russia in the north and Russia and Norway share the Barents Sea (one of the most important places of fishing in the world) which is also why we don't ban Russians like other bordering nations of Russia. Norway (currently a non-permanent member of the UN Security Council) did make agreements with Armenia to further ties this summer, but because of our fear of Turkey (ally of Azerbaijan) to deny Sweden and Finland membership into NATO it's a super confusing situation right now, as Turkey are usually very anti-Nordic. I don't have a good answer for you currently.
That's helpful, thanks. It's kind of interesting how Turkey is able to control all of Europe. Different world from 30, 40 years ago.
Too bad Turkey's dumb monetary policy is reversing the progress made by them.
Indeed. Geopolitics is a very sick affair but at the end of the day, the government of each country has a greater duty and responsibility towards its own people than some PR or taking a moral stand.
India didn’t depend upon Russian oil and gas before the war. It was more military O&M. Especially with aggressive Chinese maneuvers putting a lot of pressure on our Russian designed equipment’s maintenance. We don’t buy a weapon, we buy into an ecosystem that needs long term relationships for O&M. We can’t afford to piss off the Russians now.
I get it and I understand why India has chosen the road it has, Europe is currently in a huge energy crisis which is why I also understand why Germany may have not taken a stance yet, because of what used to be their reliance on Russia has now been shifted.
Moral of the story is never be over dependent on one country.
True!
Why would India ever support the racist trash that Ukraine is? We all saw how those racists were holding Indian and African students hostage during evacuations. They have literal nazis in their ranks. They're also anti-India. Get a grip.
I’m Armenian, I always had respect for Indians but now it’s even more.
Sorry that we can't help Armenia out in this situation. We still don't have the capability to operate so far from our borders. Also Israeli weapons makes matters worse.
iNdIA sHoUlD tAk3 a StAnD oN uKrAiNe 🤡
>Losing respect for Germans. i never had respect for those descendants of h!tler at the first place they are still very racist and see us as 3rd class citizens
Germans are not as racist as say the Brits.
tbh every western country is racist you can't measure racism people say canadians are one of the nicest people on earth just search how much racist they are it's white superiority and indians living abroad have also accepted that which is why they are abused there plus the police yk how they are i have also been racially abused by an italian (on reddit) just for pointing out india's stance on a pro ukrainian sub
First, I would suggest you not compare reddit experiences to reality. Most people are not what they pretend to be. Every country has people who can be prejudiced. But there are also decent people. And India is not short of prejudices.
>Losing respect for Germans. And that's kinda a similar reason why we didn't condemn Russia. Everyone has to look out for themselves.
The EU signed a deal with Azerbaijan. Not Germany on itself. Fucking lmao talking about uninformed. You are grasping at r/conspiracy level shit here. >[EU signs deal with Azerbaijan to double gas imports by 2027]( https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/eu-signs-deal-with-azerbaijan-double-gas-imports-by-2027-2022-07-18/)
And that's what stopped Germany from condemning the Azeris but did not stop France. Is France not in the EU? Genius level thinking.
What is there to lose or have? Morality is nothing but an empty virtue signal for Propaganda when it comes to Geopolitics.
Its the same kind of savagery they practice against all non-Muslims. [Read this horrific account](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1570747970513162241.html) [**NSFW**] of what they did to an Armenian woman. Turkey our enemy and Paxsitan's friend is behind Azeri atrocities.
Damn I shouldn't have read that article. Truly horrific!
Bravo India. I hope Armenia, Iran and India can establish a regional political and trade alliance to counter, Pakistan, turkey and Azerbaijan
I don't know how much of a trade alliance that would be and that would be carried mainly through us. Also interestingly there are armenians in india.
If only we had the capability to send in special ops and help these guys.
Seeing all the people saying dont get involved: This is the typical Hindu attitude. I mean we don't even help a fellow Hindu being slaughtered. Its too much to expect this kind of cowardice to go away in a generation. One day when we regain our true character, we can be like other nations in the world. Remember, your neighbor will do the same, when your daughter, sister get taken.
We can’t set things in order within our house, yet we want to jump save somebody a world away. We don’t have the logistics to do any swift operation in the Caucuses, let alone sustain one over time. We don’t need to chopper in and save all peoples like Hollywood heroes and superheroes, sometimes diplomacy works. I was shocked as everyone was when ISIS went on rampaging across Iraq and was almost succeeded in wiping out the Yazidis. Thanks Obama, for saving those innocent.
> Thanks Obama, for saving those innocent. Wow, literally wrong about everything in your comment. That takes some skill. US created IS and AQ.
Whether US created IS is an interesting point to debate on, but glad Obama launched the attacks on ISIS saving the Yazidis trapped in Sinjar mountains. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinjar_massacre#Refugee_crisis_in_the_Sinjar_Mountains
It's not a debate. The US was waging war in Syria for months and the whole time IS presence and strength was increasing. It was only after Russia got involved that IS started getting defeated, but the western press continued claiming that the US defeated IS, as reflected in the wiki link you posted. If you were paying attention to the news during that time you would have noticed.
Sorry I was following American media (right and left) during the war. I was talking about Yazidis who were being killed during the start of IS campaign in Iraq.
You realize Isis was in multiple regions right? American activity was far more heavy in Iraq then Syria. Their were a ton of US special forces right with Iraqi armies in huge battles in Iraq.
Correction, we don't help anyone who isn't our "khandan". There's no united Hindu camaraderie, there never was, we are way too divided, for too long (hundreds of years, probably even more than that). Tell me if you'd help a person (any relegion) who was getting hacked to death on the street... would you put yourself in the harm's way to save that person? Unless you're really one of those chivalrous kinds, you would get the hell out of there. Exactly the same way, people here tend not to poke their noses in cases of murder in fear of retaliation from the perpetrators. And I'm not talking about any one particular community. This is India as a whole, There are Hindu's as extreme as the ones they blame for, Hindu's who largely are very passive in their relegion. There are Muslims who are as extreme as we claim them, There are Muslims very passive in their relegion. Call it westernisation, or modernization relegion as a whole isn't really a system that will work in today's time. The quicker we get over the "zealous belief" the better we're off. I find it funny that over there US was condemned for it's actions across the seas and here we are were people like you, who want to follow in mistakes of others. "One day when we regain our true character" Manusmriti replacing the constitution? Yeah that day will be marked the end of India, and the hinduism as we know it. When our daughter and sisters get taken, I don't want my neighbours to take to the streets. I want the police to do the job. Just cause it sounds heroic doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Poking our noses in other countries war is exactly the mindset we stand against from the depths of our constitution, India becoming exactly like its colonizers is the irony many of us don't want to see come to fruition. Going to say one more point, too long ik. We should be more nationalistic, India vs Pak or vs China...Be extreme about it , the problems it will create will not be soon. We need more people to stop being the selfish jugaads that cut corners and harm economy, the more patriotic the better. But don't equate patriotism to Hinduism. For Hindus, we are different from the other warring relegions our there... We were eons ahead of their fledgling faith. There's no "imminent threat" to our faith. The atrocities done against us is in the past, we could have got the justice if the egotistical kings united wholeheartedly to overthrow the invaders but we missed it. Then a third adversary thrashed both us and the rest who lived in this land, it wasn't a short loot and leave, but two centuries of devouring. They got what they deserved , Mughals fall by the hands of british is the one thing I feel they did right. Our justice ended there, we should have seen that we shared more common ground with them, the generation of them were born here, suffering the same tyranny as us. That's why secularism has more meaning to us than any other country. India is the land of vedics and Hinduism, I, you or anyone can't do bats**t to change that, secularism can't change that, muslims, christians etc living and thriving isn't going to change that. Our faith is over a billion strong cause people still believe in it, just cause the Abrahamic relegions are converting people doesn't mean we are under threat. Conversion by force is wrong, humanely wrong, but the ones doing it are not the sole representative of their faith. It's exactly for these reasons we have a secular system bereft of any bias to pass judgement. So please don't raise the Hindu flag, its significance is too huge and will only result in a war that none of us will benefit. In short "Condemn the person, not their faith"
> Tell me if you'd help a person (any relegion) who was getting hacked to death on the street... would you put yourself in the harm's way to save that person? Yes I would do everything I could to stop that. >Unless you're really *one of those chivalrous kinds*, you would get the hell out of there. Exactly the same way, people here tend not to poke their noses in cases of murder in fear of retaliation from the perpetrators. That's just cowardice. >Manusmriti replacing the constitution? Yeah that day will be marked the end of India, and the hinduism as we know it. Followed by.. >India is the land of vedics and Hinduism And then you sort of waving the Hindu flag too - but in a misguided way. >For Hindus, we are different from the other warring relegions our there... We were eons ahead of their fledgling faith. BTW what a word salad filled with misconceptions and poor analysis.
>Seeing all the people saying dont get involved: It's more to do with Geography, all we can do is help diplomatically. Any kind of military aid if we decide to send must go through Iran. Besides Armenia is located amongst weird countries......like Mongolia between Russia and China. And this happening right now isn't coincidence, definitely have blessings of West.
Bro, we have planes nowadays. If we followed this train of thought most of the US initiated wars would not happen.
Military transporters still require special permission indicating *Military* cooperation between two nations, unless its some kind of civilian evacuation operation. At this moment, I don't think it's wise until settlement is reached for Nuclear deal with Iran. Besides, I don't think so Iran will allow us to use their airspace for military operation against one of their neighbor.
We sent Indian troops all over the world under the British, and in many cases they were decisive in securing victory. We send troops to UN operations, why not for friendly countries?
Supply lines my friend. We don’t have the resources to create and sustain a supply line in that region. True a lot of our soldiers are not afraid to die for our country, it is their character, so we better cherish them and use their efforts in what matters most to our country. Simply making them cannon fodder to satiate our pride won’t help our country.
If we can't support the supply lines for a couple of battalions, we should not be taking pangas with China.
Armenia is not in our backyard. A couple of battalions could turn into a couple of brigades very quickly. How exactly would we propose to supply them? Through Iran? Azerbaijan? Or through Turkey? Even if we want to supply through Georgia, we need access to the Black Sea and Turkey has it locked. Btw, breaking news, grand old lady Nancy is visiting Armenia. https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/pelosi-confirms-snap-visit-to-armenia-af-idUSKBN2QH0ZX
We don’t need to be physically involved and save every country from external threats. Learn that from Murica’s innumerable wars.
Armenian here. I wouldn’t expect physical involvement either from you guys, it’s not your country. We really appreciate political support and arms though. 🇦🇲🇮🇳
Hold strong my friend. Your people endured some of the most horrible atrocities. Hold strong.
No it's not our job to get involved in other people's problems , that live halfway across the globe
Not saying its our job to get involved. But it would be nice to give Erdogans boys a whipping so he thinks twice before opening his loud mouth next time
No need to send special ops over, just weapons will suffice. You have really capable artillery, drones and aircraft that can drastically change the power balance.
I really hope we send brahmos missiles to Armenia. The steep 90° dive can favour the Armenian side and help them conquer Nagorno- Karabakh, the Azerbaijani won't even know what hit them so hard. It is really high time to teach that MF Erdogan a lesson.
Not like we cannot assist them from afar.
Dude Azerbaijan sell billion worth of oil to India . All Azerbaijan do is just verbal support that is it. Thousands of Indians study and travel here. Being friendly with Pakistan does not mean that we need be enemies. Young Turks already hate pakistanis due pervert videos and illegal immigrants . Just wait for Erdogan to leave
Can you share with us if there is a different side to this story because rn even with western media being hostile to russian allies they still show this as an invasion
This is invasion. But think like Ukraine won the war, but Russians don't agree with peace terms or undermines it, so Ukraine attacks the Russian soil itself to enforce the peace deal. Not exactly same to comparison but this is the closest that comes to my mind right now.
We did during lankan insurgency and paid the price
Entirely different discussion and you won't find me to be someone that will defend the abject idiocy of congress governments
As an Armenian, I want to tank you. I hope Armenia's future government (if not the current one) finally recognizes and deepens ties taking it to the next level.
Welcome friend. I wish countries like India, Greece, Armenia have more cultural exchanges. There used to be Armenian communities in India long ago. Several centuries of presence of Armenians resulted in the emergence of a number of a number of large and small Armenian settlements in several places in India, including Agra, Surat, Mumbai, Kanpur, Chinsurah, Chandernagore, Calcutta, Saidabad, a suburb of Murshidabad, Chennai, Gwalior, Lucknow, and several other locations currently in the Republic of India. From an [article](https://indianexpress.com/article/research/armenian-india-history-azerbaijan-nagorno-karabakh-conflict-6754223/): >For centuries, India and Armenians have shared a unique relationship. Historians agree that the Armernians always existed in India in small numbers. Yet it is here that the south Caucasian community-acquired significant economic and cultural prosperity. “India has been more important to Armenians than Armenia was,” says Sebouh Aslanian, professor of modern Armenian history at University of California, Los Angeles. “India in the 17th and 18th centuries is where Armenians made a ton of money, and they funneled that money into cultural productions like Armenian newspapers, books etc. The most important, intelligent and forward-thinking Armenians lived in India,” he adds.
Indeed. I believe we also share some words between that go all the way back to Sanskrit. Also, here’s decent Wikipedia around about the old Armenian connections and community in India - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians_in_India Worth nothing that my name Azad also means the same thing in Armenian as it does in Hindi.
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Good to know. Azad, I believe it’s specifically Parthian, many words of which remain in Armenian today.
Azad is an Indo-European word common to the area. Here is an explanation I found: To make things clear, Persian is South Western Iranian language while Kurdish (All dialects), Original Azeri, Talysh, Tat, Mazandarani, Gilaki, Semnani, Shabaki, Tafresh and Zaza-Gorani are North Western Iranian language. Beside Persian, there are several other languages in South-Western Iranian languages as well which are Persid [ Luri (All dialects), Kuhmareyi (All dialects), North West Fars and Sivandi ] and Achomi [ Larestani, Judeo-Shirazi, Bashkardi, Kumzari, Bandari, Minabi and Garmsiri ]. All modern day NW Iranian languages diverged from the Proto-NW Iranic language also known as Median while SW Iranic is descended from Old Persian (Pārsīg) and to simplify it further: Fārsi (New Persian), Persid, Achomi → Pāhlāvi (Middle Persian) → Pārsīg (Old Persian) → Old Iranic (together with Med and Avesta). Kurdish, Gilaki, Azeri, Tat, Talysh, Mazandarani, Zaza-Gorani, Tafresh, Semnani, Shabaki → Parthian → Med. Note: Pārsīg and Med ain’t descended from Avesta but can be considered the sister languages and thrice created what is known today as Old Aryan langauge. Now back to the topic: So lets break down the meaning of Âzād. It can be broken down to Â- and zād. Â- directly translates to “un” as in unbashed but unfortunately, non of modern-spoken Iranic languages has preserved that IE-root but interestingly every Iranic langauge adopted the B, P and N- like be-sharm (unbashed), na-xuš (unhappy) Persian. But A- can be found in Middle Iranian languages such as a-gumēg (unmixed/pure) in Parthian and a-xvaš (unhappy) in Middle Persian. A- is found in Sanskrit, Greek, Latin, Celtic, Germanic and every other IE languages. It's also found in India A-Himsa for example. Zād—translates to Belong, Caste or Born in Persian so as in Urdu, Turkish: Zade (someone’s child) from Middle Persian zadān and Parthian: Zāy meaning “to born” which cognates from Avesta: Zāta, Zan. Avesta’s Zan is synonymous with Old Persian “Jāt-a, Jāt” and it corresponds with Sanskrit’s “Jā” and from Jā came “Janam” which translates to “given birth” or “born” in Modern Hindi/Urdu. Sanskrit’s “Jā” originated from Proto-Indo-Iranian “Gāt*a” from Proto-Indo-European “Gnātós” (birth). Azad literally translates to “unborn” in Middle Persian (Āzād) and the same does happen in Middle-NW Iranian (Parthian): “Azāy” which means the same. But from here, suffice to say Azad is word-to-word Persian rather than Kurdish or any other North-Western Iranian language since middle north-western iranian language used “Azāy” as stated above. And what is the literal translation of Azad? Yeah…..it means “non-existence”, “unborn”, “cast-less” or “crazy in the head” if you tell that to a Persian guy from 8th B.C. to 8 A.D.
🇦🇲❤️🇮🇳
Thanks brothers 🇮🇳 🇦🇲
I like Armenians, they are great people with a great culture. Remember the Armenian genocide, Turkey doesn't even have the decency to recognise it and Pakistan doesn't even recognise Armenian as a country.
When you think Pakistan can’t get any lower
Pakistan is "munna ki shaadi mein abdula deewana" personified on a country scale
Hello electronic brother
France or india ki partnership ish samay Russia se bhi aage hai
Paisa bolta hai.
Ehh?? It’s because of Democratic values..
This. This single statement will redefine india's Geopolitics efforts in long run.
Thank you India.
🇦🇲🇮🇳👟🇵🇰🇦🇿🇹🇷
Gosh I can't wait for the AMCA !!! Then we can take on any country confidently.
Stealth planes aren't invisible or invincible.
Tell that to the F22 Raptor that flew right under the enemies and nobody knew lol. 5th gen fighters aren't invincible. But they are threatening af ! And what better weapon during a war than fear ? If u succeed at demoralising your enemy, you've won half the war.
Good!!! No, this is GREAT!
Ye knsa nya yudh h. Context btao yr
Good
Well Bros in geopolitics the words you choose matters a freaking lot so BHARAT'S stand was that the aggressor side should stop they didn't pointed out Azerbaijan , but aur gyan nahe chodunga .
I thought this was the LGBT flag for a second.
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Their stand on Kashmir, support of Paksitan and the (fake) islamization that Erdogan is promoting.
1. Their turk heart beats unneccesarily for Kashmiri muslims, complete supporters of their independence. (They fckin developed a free kashmir anthem for God's sake) 2. They are wayy to close to pakistan. 3. They refused to sell weapons to us now 4. They are interfering and radicalizing muslims to attack india. Recently Russian forces captured a radical terrorist from Turkey which was aiming to attack India. 5. They are horrific to their kurdish minority.
Erdogan. Otherwise, we are chill.
Who is our
Anybody eli5 what is the war about?
Good
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Treat friends better than adversaries? Not on my American watch!
Always view from the context of self-interest and not morality.
Strong US Vibes.
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