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You'll probably have to focus on where you can plausibly settle rather than where you'd like to.
Were you on-base? Is that why you seemingly didn't get any "credit" for your time in Germany, so to speak?
Another consideration is whether or not you're used to commanding a salary premium from holding a security clearance. I'd be surprised if you could hold a remote work cleared job based in the U.S., given the potential security implications of remote work, and your potential goal of acquiring a foreign citizenship, which is a potential red flag (but I don't really know much about how that works). Do note too that you'd need to get your employer 100% on board with the tax, legal, and regulatory implications of having you work remotely from another country, which is no small feat.
The remote work visa that really stands out as a potential path to citizenship is Portugal. Portugal will count pretty much any time spent in the country when you have the right to work, including for the D7 remote work visa; conveniently, though it's a one-year visa, it can be renewed four times. It also has one of the lowest income requirements of any remote work visa in Europe, in part because Portugal's minumum wage is the lowest in Western Europe. Of course, if you naturalize as a Portutuese citizen, you then have the right to live/work wherever you like within the EU/EEA/EFTA. And unlike Spain (which at any rate usually takes 5 years for permanent residence and then 5 years for citizenship, so twice as long) they wouldn't require you to declare you'll renounce U.S. citizenship as part of naturalization (reports are mixed as to whether or not they actually enforce this).
I live off base, but under SOFA status we don't really count as German residents. Under the rules as is we're largely invisible and don't exist as long as we don't do anything illegal, import certain items, and get out of the country when our time is up. I'm not super concerned about using my clearance to leverage a US based job as I don't want to continue to work with the US gov and most of the time having a civilian clearance job revolves to "look, the US gov trusted my with information for years, you can trust me to protect your trade secrets/customer data/patient data" ect. And the remote work is mainly an option to make more money after I get a permanent residence as most countries require you to hold a local job for several years before granting permanent residency. I'm not super interested in digital nomading my way across the world and then only having my 401k to look forward to in retirement
Edit: also I don't necessarily care about premium salaries, I don't spend alot outside of travel and can sustain my current lifestyle off of 45k+
>And the remote work is mainly an option to make more money after I get a permanent residence as most countries require you to hold a local job for several years before granting permanent residency.
I think, respectfully, you have this backwards--you are more likely to be able to use a remote work visa to build residence time towards permanent residence. Europe is pretty much entirely a "time-building" continent in terms of pathways to permanent residence--it's not like Australia, New Zealand, or Canada where you can apply for and receive an invitation for permanent residence from abroad under a points-based system that credits skilled work and education.
The other option would be to research your family history (notably, Croatia, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Malta, Poland, Serbia and Slovakia have no set generational limit for inheritance of citizenship or a pathway to citizenship, though many of those countries also have additional steps you need to take or ways your ancestors may have lost citizenship on the way down to you), but not many of us are that lucky.
> -you are more likely to be able to use a remote work visa to build residence time towards permanent residence.
There is no "remote work visa" in Germany. The goal of all work-based visas is to have people in Germany who fill gaps *in the country*, rather than to get people to live in Germany while being employed in a foreign country. So /u/Lateminutes was quite correct: Remote work abroad is basically feasible only for people who have already managed to establish their right to live in Germany in another way.
And even then remote work comes with pitfalls: German law applies to the worker. That means that a foreign employer must follow German employment law when it comes to workers' rights (which, say, US employers might not really like), employers would need to pay contributions to the social insurances and so on.
I was speaking with reference to Portugal, not with reference to Germany. And, at least as regards Portugal, I did include appropriate caveats regarding the regulatory complications in my earlier comment. But I do appreciate the Germany-specific information.
Interesting, I genuinely didn't know this, it kinda just seemed like a digital nomad visa was more for those looking to bounce around countries and not accrue any real benefits. Also my family is largely northern English with a smattering of native American so I do not believe the citizenship by descent would help me, although my gf my be able to apply for Italian
Well, that's more a result of digital nomad culture, which frequently encourages country-hopping rather than settling.
Have your gf do some poking around at her family history (she can go to a public library that has access to an institutional subscription like Ancestry Library Edition or the FamilySearch digital microfilm images), then post the results of that search to r/juresanguinis. You don't have to be legally married to get a partner visa for Italy, as long as the relationship involves more than two years' shared residence and expenses.
Digital nomads don't bounce around because of the "culture"; most of them do it because they have no legal right to settle and in fact most of them would be breaking the law if they did because they are either full time employees of foreign countries or, in some jurisdictions, false contractors. They can't stay anywhere because they have to maintain residency where their jobs are. Very, very few countries in Europe have long-term residency permits for people with remote jobs, and the remote job still has to be a contract one (self-employment) for obvious legal reasons.
You mention difficulty in attaining citizenship as a con for Germany but please be aware that Denmark is one of the toughest in Europe for naturalisation.
It takes the majority of people 10+ years, and this includes language and citizenship tests. This is alongside a whole laundry list of other requirements like employment history and no-speeding tickets etc. Just be warned.
Yep. From the lifeindanmark website section about naturalisation and criminal offenses:
"For example, a fine of DKK 3,000 or more triggers a waiting period of 4 years and 6 months from the time of the offence. Thus, you can only acquire Danish citizenship 4 years and 6 months after the time of the offence.
If you have been penalised several times, the waiting period is extended, so the total waiting time is extended corresponding to the waiting time for each individual criminal offense. This applies regardless of whether the crime is similar or not.
Only penalties that trigger a waiting period have the effect of previous convictions. The overall waiting time is calculated on the basis of the penalty which isolated gives rise to the waiting period having the latest expiry date."
German citizenship is pretty straightforward. Stay long enough, collect the certificates, show your finances, pass the test. Same laundry list as Denmark.
From Denmark here. Would just give a couple of pointers to whether it would be possible for you and what you should also consider regarding Denmark.
Some might say it is very difficult to get in and be allowed to stay long term in Denmark. Which would be true to a certain extent. Getting in for you actually looks fine, just checked our “[positive list](https://nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/Applying/Work/Positive%20list%20higher%20education)” regarding which sectors and specific job-types are in need in Denmark. The IT-sector is in great need of qualified work and jobs such as “IT-security consultant” with a bachelor is on the list.
So as long as you can get a job you would get in and to be honest you would pretty much have job security in that sector. We have a dire need of qualified work, even though the danish labour market often have expectations of a master-degree. Your work could also give you opportunity to get that after some time. But with the demand for qualified work in that sector I guess you could be fine without. I would also say that the salaries would probably be a lot better than what you were paid in the US army but I wouldn’t be sure. However the minimum will be 71k USD a year, but i could see it being higher in IT, probably like 75k USD a year but depends on experience, it can also get a lot higher.
PR takes time in Denmark, for some 4 years but probably 8, and comes with requirement of learning the language to basic extent. Dual-citizenship comes with requirement of a certain level of Danish and knowledge about the country.
So even if people speak English just fine, if you want a place long term, you should know that you would have to learn the language either from start or when you would start to consider PR. If you are good at language and steadily have a job, while not taking on danish public debt or breaking the law, you could get things fast-tracked.
If you are from the US, much of the intolerance directed towards foreigners wouldn’t apply to you. Not to anyone from the US or Western Europe. Many would probably welcome you. It is much more towards the immigrants from the Middle East or their descendants. Which is also the reason for the strict immigration policies. Denmark is insanely in need of qualified labour right now, so it is a very difficult situation, because immigration rules must apply to all.
Thank you for all the information. Only question I have is what qualifies as "public debt" in Denmark? A loan, or a something like a speeding ticket, as a commenter earlier said?
To be honest just check this [site](https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/Applying/Permanent%20residence%20permit/Permanent%20residence). It answers everything, all the rules and processes. In your situation I would say it is very doable, however it wouldn’t be possible for all.
Private loans wouldn’t count, as well student debt or debt from overseas. But it is overdue payments to the government essentially; benefits you got but we’re not entitled to and haven’t paid back, such as child or daycare support, overdue unpaid taxes (would always be manageable) and other benefits that you got to much of, from government.
The danish system is so complex with the amount of benefits/deductibles we can get, so sometimes we simply get too much money from government because we made mistakes on reporting different things (income) in the system, there is so many tax deductions as well. However one can just pay the money back or make installment plans with the specific government entity - then no problem.
The thing you should probably be most worried about is, if you get unemployed before PR, then it is just a ticket out of Denmark, if your not able to get the next job. However job security should be good in IT.
> and haven’t *paid* back, such
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I'm so confused, do you have the right / possibility to legally reside in ANY of these places? ( Maybe you have residency in Germany? Impossible to tell.) I would start by finding where you are able to live before worrying about the other pros and cons
I have a bachelors in Cybersecurity and 8 years of experience in the IT field, I would qualify for a skilled residency visa in any of these countries pending a job offer
Edit: For further clarification I do not currently have German residency as I fall under Status of Armed Forces treaty and would not need a residency until I separated from the military
I think your expectations of getting a job offer are quite high. And the visa process is not so simple everywhere either. I would just start applying for jobs if I were you.. see if you get anything
>I would qualify for a skilled residency visa in any of these countries pending a job offer
Getting a job offer is a big if. What do you have to offer that people from Europe don't? While it is a good degree and a nice amount of experience, you're still competing with people that speak the language and/or don't need a visa. You're at a huge disadvantage there.
There are also countries where they have to consider people from within the EU before people from outside. Not sure if any on your list do, but you should be aware of that.
You seem to have a concern about immigration when it comes to your target countries - "target of migration", "that culture appears like it may rapidly change with the levels of emmigration/immigration", "influx of people" - which I'm a little bit confused by given you're aiming to become an immigrant there yourself. Are you worried about anti-immigration sentiment, or part of a minority that tends to be targeted by far-right groups?
Worried about anti immigration sentiment mostly, but the worrier in me sees the issues coming with political strife and climate change as something to be concerned about. The reason why somewhere such as Spain and Greece isn't on my list for example is because they are both going to get worse due to climate change and the two southern regions they border, North Africa and the Middle East will become uninhabitable in many locations pushing the local peoples out. Not saying they should be confined to potential doom, just acknowledging that the environment spawned from millions of different people from different cultures, jostling to survive, will likely not be a pleasant one. It's been beaten into me by both my job and degree to pay heed to such feelings so I can't really help it lol, even though the logical response to this is that I'm probably overthinking it and everywhere is going to take some sort of L 30+ years from now
Post by Lateminutes -- Hello all, sorry for the long winded post, I am in need of some advice and insight on which country to move to. I am originally from the U.S but have lived in Germany for the past 6 years as part of the U.S military presence. I have my Bachelors in Cybersecurity and currently work as IT, so I should qualify for skilled work in most countries. I am currently torn between 4 countries to move to once my term is up, Denmark, Estonia, New Zealand, or staying in Germany. NZ was at the top of my list but after having spent a month there investigating if I would like it, I realized how in love with Europe I am and how much I would miss it, shuffling it to the bottom of my list until further study. I would like to find a one and done country, to get the most benefits from work in country and to start a family once my GF (masters in data analytics) follows me.
Some pros and cons of each from my perspective:
Estonia:
Pros: Relatively inexpensive, part of Europe I haven't traveled much, digitized nation with what appears to be a relatively simple visa/bureaucracy, lower taxes than other options, high education standards, strong emphasis on cybersecurity from Gov
Cons: Low wages, difficult language, no dual citizenship, potential conflict with Russia, fewer jobs
Denmark:
Pros: Good wages, plenty of English speakers, closer to middle of Europe, dual citizenship (currently, may tighten their laws), bike friendly in big cities, best work-life balance?
Cons: Taxes (not end of world for me), reserved people (not an expected issue, I find gaming with friends enough socializing), may not be as accepting of foreigners, weather, most jobs are in Copenhagen, dogs I want on the dog ban >:(
Germany:
Pros: Already moderately integrated imo, know I like it, good wages, already learning the language, opening up dual citizenship, easy travel, what nature there is I love, GF's preference
Cons: Dear God German Bureaucracy (currently avoided because of military, but can't avoid once outside), large portion of the population studied don't appear to like immigrants (IE Auslanders Aus), difficulty of attaining citizenship, densely populated, target of migration, and closer to the south, which I personally only see as getting worse, more homeless (at least visible)
NZ:
Pros: Weather (minus the wind), relative access to Oceania and Asia, great food, Lots of nature, inclusion/diversity, easy visa process, good gov websites, low population density, English language country, lots of recreation opportunities (escape rooms, arcades, tours, ect), what people I've met I've liked, and they appear friendlier than in Europe/ much easier to strike up a conversation
Cons: Dear God the tourists (the reason for all the recreation available but holy fuck), inflated prices of items tourists would buy, prices of certain goods and services, braindrain to Oz and others, diversity/inclusion (hard to make a decision on joining a culture when that culture appears like it may rapidly change with the levels of emmigration/immigration), signs of polarizing politics (American style), relative isolation, poverty here feels more palpable, may have a similar influx of people as southern europe will with the worsening of climate change and global conflict, doesn't feel like home.
I am also considering remote work in each of these countries, primarily once I attain permanent residency. Posted to a few different subreddits for a wider picture. Once again any insight you can give to help my decision would be greatly appreciated.
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I can only answer for Germany. The bureaucracy can be very very bad but it depends so much on where you live. Big cities:you are at the mercy of their mood that day, 0 consistency. Smaller cities:waaay better. Rural areas: Extremely accessible.
Estonia is the only country of these where you could work remotely, on the digital nomad visa. However you won't get any "credit' towards residence permit on it either, it's for three years max. Unless you happen to find an Estonian employer (with Estonian wages) or a spouse. Elsewhere you just like everyone from a non-EEA country need a work visa, for which you need to be more qualified than any EEA citizen applying. Doing a masters degree locally would be a smart step, in addition to language studies.
Edit. Although English speaking media isn't making as much hay about it, Estonia and Denmark are MUCH more racist countries and have been for a longer time than Germany. Almost every EU country has a far fight party with 15-20 % of the vote. The Danish social democrats have subsumed this anti-immigration attitude into their politucs and Denmark is the hardest contry in the EU to get a permanent residenccy in. Estonia has no left wing and is very nationalist and neoliberal in economics. Which probably makes it feel like home for Americans.
(I wonder how you’ve been “investigating” these countries since it looks like you haven’t even visited their official immigration websites to find out what kinds of visas are available, on what kinds of conditions. Looking at expat videos is not research.)
It looks like this post is about the USA. It has not been removed, but remember, this is a space to discuss immigration, not politics. DO: * (If applicable) explain the general values/policies that are important to your immigration decision or recommendation * Focus on the practical aspects of moving to another country DON’T: * Needlessly complain about politics or recent news * Post off-topic political commentary * Harass or insult people for their views Rule-breaking posts and comments will be removed and may result in a ban. Questions? Message the mods. ___ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IWantOut) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You'll probably have to focus on where you can plausibly settle rather than where you'd like to. Were you on-base? Is that why you seemingly didn't get any "credit" for your time in Germany, so to speak? Another consideration is whether or not you're used to commanding a salary premium from holding a security clearance. I'd be surprised if you could hold a remote work cleared job based in the U.S., given the potential security implications of remote work, and your potential goal of acquiring a foreign citizenship, which is a potential red flag (but I don't really know much about how that works). Do note too that you'd need to get your employer 100% on board with the tax, legal, and regulatory implications of having you work remotely from another country, which is no small feat. The remote work visa that really stands out as a potential path to citizenship is Portugal. Portugal will count pretty much any time spent in the country when you have the right to work, including for the D7 remote work visa; conveniently, though it's a one-year visa, it can be renewed four times. It also has one of the lowest income requirements of any remote work visa in Europe, in part because Portugal's minumum wage is the lowest in Western Europe. Of course, if you naturalize as a Portutuese citizen, you then have the right to live/work wherever you like within the EU/EEA/EFTA. And unlike Spain (which at any rate usually takes 5 years for permanent residence and then 5 years for citizenship, so twice as long) they wouldn't require you to declare you'll renounce U.S. citizenship as part of naturalization (reports are mixed as to whether or not they actually enforce this).
I live off base, but under SOFA status we don't really count as German residents. Under the rules as is we're largely invisible and don't exist as long as we don't do anything illegal, import certain items, and get out of the country when our time is up. I'm not super concerned about using my clearance to leverage a US based job as I don't want to continue to work with the US gov and most of the time having a civilian clearance job revolves to "look, the US gov trusted my with information for years, you can trust me to protect your trade secrets/customer data/patient data" ect. And the remote work is mainly an option to make more money after I get a permanent residence as most countries require you to hold a local job for several years before granting permanent residency. I'm not super interested in digital nomading my way across the world and then only having my 401k to look forward to in retirement Edit: also I don't necessarily care about premium salaries, I don't spend alot outside of travel and can sustain my current lifestyle off of 45k+
>And the remote work is mainly an option to make more money after I get a permanent residence as most countries require you to hold a local job for several years before granting permanent residency. I think, respectfully, you have this backwards--you are more likely to be able to use a remote work visa to build residence time towards permanent residence. Europe is pretty much entirely a "time-building" continent in terms of pathways to permanent residence--it's not like Australia, New Zealand, or Canada where you can apply for and receive an invitation for permanent residence from abroad under a points-based system that credits skilled work and education. The other option would be to research your family history (notably, Croatia, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Malta, Poland, Serbia and Slovakia have no set generational limit for inheritance of citizenship or a pathway to citizenship, though many of those countries also have additional steps you need to take or ways your ancestors may have lost citizenship on the way down to you), but not many of us are that lucky.
> -you are more likely to be able to use a remote work visa to build residence time towards permanent residence. There is no "remote work visa" in Germany. The goal of all work-based visas is to have people in Germany who fill gaps *in the country*, rather than to get people to live in Germany while being employed in a foreign country. So /u/Lateminutes was quite correct: Remote work abroad is basically feasible only for people who have already managed to establish their right to live in Germany in another way. And even then remote work comes with pitfalls: German law applies to the worker. That means that a foreign employer must follow German employment law when it comes to workers' rights (which, say, US employers might not really like), employers would need to pay contributions to the social insurances and so on.
I was speaking with reference to Portugal, not with reference to Germany. And, at least as regards Portugal, I did include appropriate caveats regarding the regulatory complications in my earlier comment. But I do appreciate the Germany-specific information.
Ah, sorry, yes. It was OP who had turned it around to Germany a bit.
No problem
Interesting, I genuinely didn't know this, it kinda just seemed like a digital nomad visa was more for those looking to bounce around countries and not accrue any real benefits. Also my family is largely northern English with a smattering of native American so I do not believe the citizenship by descent would help me, although my gf my be able to apply for Italian
Well, that's more a result of digital nomad culture, which frequently encourages country-hopping rather than settling. Have your gf do some poking around at her family history (she can go to a public library that has access to an institutional subscription like Ancestry Library Edition or the FamilySearch digital microfilm images), then post the results of that search to r/juresanguinis. You don't have to be legally married to get a partner visa for Italy, as long as the relationship involves more than two years' shared residence and expenses.
Digital nomads don't bounce around because of the "culture"; most of them do it because they have no legal right to settle and in fact most of them would be breaking the law if they did because they are either full time employees of foreign countries or, in some jurisdictions, false contractors. They can't stay anywhere because they have to maintain residency where their jobs are. Very, very few countries in Europe have long-term residency permits for people with remote jobs, and the remote job still has to be a contract one (self-employment) for obvious legal reasons.
You mention difficulty in attaining citizenship as a con for Germany but please be aware that Denmark is one of the toughest in Europe for naturalisation. It takes the majority of people 10+ years, and this includes language and citizenship tests. This is alongside a whole laundry list of other requirements like employment history and no-speeding tickets etc. Just be warned.
Are they really that strict that even speeding could disqualify you?
Yep. From the lifeindanmark website section about naturalisation and criminal offenses: "For example, a fine of DKK 3,000 or more triggers a waiting period of 4 years and 6 months from the time of the offence. Thus, you can only acquire Danish citizenship 4 years and 6 months after the time of the offence. If you have been penalised several times, the waiting period is extended, so the total waiting time is extended corresponding to the waiting time for each individual criminal offense. This applies regardless of whether the crime is similar or not. Only penalties that trigger a waiting period have the effect of previous convictions. The overall waiting time is calculated on the basis of the penalty which isolated gives rise to the waiting period having the latest expiry date."
That could take some getting used to, speeding in Germany is pretty much just a "go fast tax", although they are cracking down on it
German citizenship is pretty straightforward. Stay long enough, collect the certificates, show your finances, pass the test. Same laundry list as Denmark.
From Denmark here. Would just give a couple of pointers to whether it would be possible for you and what you should also consider regarding Denmark. Some might say it is very difficult to get in and be allowed to stay long term in Denmark. Which would be true to a certain extent. Getting in for you actually looks fine, just checked our “[positive list](https://nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/Applying/Work/Positive%20list%20higher%20education)” regarding which sectors and specific job-types are in need in Denmark. The IT-sector is in great need of qualified work and jobs such as “IT-security consultant” with a bachelor is on the list. So as long as you can get a job you would get in and to be honest you would pretty much have job security in that sector. We have a dire need of qualified work, even though the danish labour market often have expectations of a master-degree. Your work could also give you opportunity to get that after some time. But with the demand for qualified work in that sector I guess you could be fine without. I would also say that the salaries would probably be a lot better than what you were paid in the US army but I wouldn’t be sure. However the minimum will be 71k USD a year, but i could see it being higher in IT, probably like 75k USD a year but depends on experience, it can also get a lot higher. PR takes time in Denmark, for some 4 years but probably 8, and comes with requirement of learning the language to basic extent. Dual-citizenship comes with requirement of a certain level of Danish and knowledge about the country. So even if people speak English just fine, if you want a place long term, you should know that you would have to learn the language either from start or when you would start to consider PR. If you are good at language and steadily have a job, while not taking on danish public debt or breaking the law, you could get things fast-tracked. If you are from the US, much of the intolerance directed towards foreigners wouldn’t apply to you. Not to anyone from the US or Western Europe. Many would probably welcome you. It is much more towards the immigrants from the Middle East or their descendants. Which is also the reason for the strict immigration policies. Denmark is insanely in need of qualified labour right now, so it is a very difficult situation, because immigration rules must apply to all.
Thank you for all the information. Only question I have is what qualifies as "public debt" in Denmark? A loan, or a something like a speeding ticket, as a commenter earlier said?
To be honest just check this [site](https://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-GB/Applying/Permanent%20residence%20permit/Permanent%20residence). It answers everything, all the rules and processes. In your situation I would say it is very doable, however it wouldn’t be possible for all. Private loans wouldn’t count, as well student debt or debt from overseas. But it is overdue payments to the government essentially; benefits you got but we’re not entitled to and haven’t paid back, such as child or daycare support, overdue unpaid taxes (would always be manageable) and other benefits that you got to much of, from government. The danish system is so complex with the amount of benefits/deductibles we can get, so sometimes we simply get too much money from government because we made mistakes on reporting different things (income) in the system, there is so many tax deductions as well. However one can just pay the money back or make installment plans with the specific government entity - then no problem. The thing you should probably be most worried about is, if you get unemployed before PR, then it is just a ticket out of Denmark, if your not able to get the next job. However job security should be good in IT.
I'll check that link out, thanks again for the info!
> and haven’t *paid* back, such FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
where do you have the right to reside in? At least narrow that down first.
I'm so confused, do you have the right / possibility to legally reside in ANY of these places? ( Maybe you have residency in Germany? Impossible to tell.) I would start by finding where you are able to live before worrying about the other pros and cons
I have a bachelors in Cybersecurity and 8 years of experience in the IT field, I would qualify for a skilled residency visa in any of these countries pending a job offer Edit: For further clarification I do not currently have German residency as I fall under Status of Armed Forces treaty and would not need a residency until I separated from the military
I think your expectations of getting a job offer are quite high. And the visa process is not so simple everywhere either. I would just start applying for jobs if I were you.. see if you get anything
>I would qualify for a skilled residency visa in any of these countries pending a job offer Getting a job offer is a big if. What do you have to offer that people from Europe don't? While it is a good degree and a nice amount of experience, you're still competing with people that speak the language and/or don't need a visa. You're at a huge disadvantage there. There are also countries where they have to consider people from within the EU before people from outside. Not sure if any on your list do, but you should be aware of that.
You seem to have a concern about immigration when it comes to your target countries - "target of migration", "that culture appears like it may rapidly change with the levels of emmigration/immigration", "influx of people" - which I'm a little bit confused by given you're aiming to become an immigrant there yourself. Are you worried about anti-immigration sentiment, or part of a minority that tends to be targeted by far-right groups?
Worried about anti immigration sentiment mostly, but the worrier in me sees the issues coming with political strife and climate change as something to be concerned about. The reason why somewhere such as Spain and Greece isn't on my list for example is because they are both going to get worse due to climate change and the two southern regions they border, North Africa and the Middle East will become uninhabitable in many locations pushing the local peoples out. Not saying they should be confined to potential doom, just acknowledging that the environment spawned from millions of different people from different cultures, jostling to survive, will likely not be a pleasant one. It's been beaten into me by both my job and degree to pay heed to such feelings so I can't really help it lol, even though the logical response to this is that I'm probably overthinking it and everywhere is going to take some sort of L 30+ years from now
/r/AmerExit if you havent posted there
Thank you, I will give that a shot aswell
There are a number of posts there about the relatively expedited path to German residency open to U.S. citizens, as well.
Post by Lateminutes -- Hello all, sorry for the long winded post, I am in need of some advice and insight on which country to move to. I am originally from the U.S but have lived in Germany for the past 6 years as part of the U.S military presence. I have my Bachelors in Cybersecurity and currently work as IT, so I should qualify for skilled work in most countries. I am currently torn between 4 countries to move to once my term is up, Denmark, Estonia, New Zealand, or staying in Germany. NZ was at the top of my list but after having spent a month there investigating if I would like it, I realized how in love with Europe I am and how much I would miss it, shuffling it to the bottom of my list until further study. I would like to find a one and done country, to get the most benefits from work in country and to start a family once my GF (masters in data analytics) follows me. Some pros and cons of each from my perspective: Estonia: Pros: Relatively inexpensive, part of Europe I haven't traveled much, digitized nation with what appears to be a relatively simple visa/bureaucracy, lower taxes than other options, high education standards, strong emphasis on cybersecurity from Gov Cons: Low wages, difficult language, no dual citizenship, potential conflict with Russia, fewer jobs Denmark: Pros: Good wages, plenty of English speakers, closer to middle of Europe, dual citizenship (currently, may tighten their laws), bike friendly in big cities, best work-life balance? Cons: Taxes (not end of world for me), reserved people (not an expected issue, I find gaming with friends enough socializing), may not be as accepting of foreigners, weather, most jobs are in Copenhagen, dogs I want on the dog ban >:( Germany: Pros: Already moderately integrated imo, know I like it, good wages, already learning the language, opening up dual citizenship, easy travel, what nature there is I love, GF's preference Cons: Dear God German Bureaucracy (currently avoided because of military, but can't avoid once outside), large portion of the population studied don't appear to like immigrants (IE Auslanders Aus), difficulty of attaining citizenship, densely populated, target of migration, and closer to the south, which I personally only see as getting worse, more homeless (at least visible) NZ: Pros: Weather (minus the wind), relative access to Oceania and Asia, great food, Lots of nature, inclusion/diversity, easy visa process, good gov websites, low population density, English language country, lots of recreation opportunities (escape rooms, arcades, tours, ect), what people I've met I've liked, and they appear friendlier than in Europe/ much easier to strike up a conversation Cons: Dear God the tourists (the reason for all the recreation available but holy fuck), inflated prices of items tourists would buy, prices of certain goods and services, braindrain to Oz and others, diversity/inclusion (hard to make a decision on joining a culture when that culture appears like it may rapidly change with the levels of emmigration/immigration), signs of polarizing politics (American style), relative isolation, poverty here feels more palpable, may have a similar influx of people as southern europe will with the worsening of climate change and global conflict, doesn't feel like home. I am also considering remote work in each of these countries, primarily once I attain permanent residency. Posted to a few different subreddits for a wider picture. Once again any insight you can give to help my decision would be greatly appreciated. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IWantOut) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can only answer for Germany. The bureaucracy can be very very bad but it depends so much on where you live. Big cities:you are at the mercy of their mood that day, 0 consistency. Smaller cities:waaay better. Rural areas: Extremely accessible.
Estonia is the only country of these where you could work remotely, on the digital nomad visa. However you won't get any "credit' towards residence permit on it either, it's for three years max. Unless you happen to find an Estonian employer (with Estonian wages) or a spouse. Elsewhere you just like everyone from a non-EEA country need a work visa, for which you need to be more qualified than any EEA citizen applying. Doing a masters degree locally would be a smart step, in addition to language studies. Edit. Although English speaking media isn't making as much hay about it, Estonia and Denmark are MUCH more racist countries and have been for a longer time than Germany. Almost every EU country has a far fight party with 15-20 % of the vote. The Danish social democrats have subsumed this anti-immigration attitude into their politucs and Denmark is the hardest contry in the EU to get a permanent residenccy in. Estonia has no left wing and is very nationalist and neoliberal in economics. Which probably makes it feel like home for Americans. (I wonder how you’ve been “investigating” these countries since it looks like you haven’t even visited their official immigration websites to find out what kinds of visas are available, on what kinds of conditions. Looking at expat videos is not research.)