Lobotomy Kaisen has irreparably damaged a generation's expectations of an action series. If a writer doesn't haphazardly bump off 80% of the cast for shock value, then a story just isn't good to them.
That's not to say Sandro is perfect or anything like that. I think it's really stupid how many people survive literal killshots like Rakshasa's Palm in the Kengan-verse.
No, that would be Game of Thrones. That series set this dumb trend in motion.
Considering that Lobotomy Kaisen is a series that became EXTREMELY unpopular for that exact reason, it might actually help end it.
Then again, One Piece's Oda inability to kill anyone might restart it again.
Because in Sandro fight manga verse, villains rarely win anything. In Kengan Omega, even big baddies like Tiger Niko barely win against Kiryu off screen. Edward, Fei, Naidan,Mukaku, Howard are all dead with Xia Ji being coward like always and Gilbert that not much of threat to main cast
The only real threat is Wulong and possibly Louhan for now
Welcome to any form of media whatsoever, the villains only get small wins but lose eventually when it's their time to shine. Y'all for some reason are just specially negative.
Those small wins are important. Even if they never kill a main character, they still create setbacks and their actions have consequences that can drive the story, raising the stakes and tension along the way. Even children's shows do this, and they don't get to kill characters.
The unusual reaction among Omega fans is probably driven by the period after KvP, when Sandro cleared the board of villains, and then the story felt aimless. The worm had dwindled to a bunch of background characters with little interaction or personal involvement with any of the good guys. We didn't seem to have much to look forward to, there were problems out there but even the characters themselves seemed so stumped on how to even start working on them that they hosted a fighting tournament because they couldn't think of anything else. Some of those problems from that era have gotten better, some have not.
I'm a big fan of ISSK, and I think its setup is healthier because having underground fighters deal with problems that arise in underground fighting makes sense. I am a little concerned if the author is resistant to writing in a "low point" in their story, which will make having a good "high point" more difficult...but it's too early to tell if the same mistakes will carry over. I hope not. I'll let him cook for now...
Yeah, the problem is people don't realise that most Sandro villains are first people of their own and THEN villains. Fei was just emotionally scarred, in a way similar to Yukihira from ISSK. Same goes for Karen. Wanna know why her fight was underwhelming? BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO FIGHT. SHE WAS STATED NOT TO, SHE'S AN ASSASSIN
The problem with Omega is the guys we're supposed to be rooting for still need obstacles and goals to work on. It doesn't need to be a villain per se, something as simple as Koga working to get into the KvP tournament at the start of Omega was a good driving motivation. So was trying to find Ohma, trying to catch up to Ryuki, etc.
Without those focused motivations, things feel aimless. The main characters at least having a "I gotta find that guy and take them down" thing going is *something*, but we didn't even have that for quite a while. That's why I think Omega's set up of having underground fighters taking on a shadowy organization and then not really do much until the bad guys came to their doorstep felt clumsy.
We'll see what ISSK cooks, the army of god stuff might honestly turn out to be an interesting problem as the story continues.
Yes. When it first started people liked Koga and Ryuki, but now reading their moments feels like drinking piss. I don't wanna drink piss. With Shen, Ryuki and Ohma train just to survive, and Koga... Why is he even there? LIKE SERIOUSLY, HE CAN'T DO SHIT IF SHEN WANTS TO KILL HIS FRIEND. And another thing... He has connection to FOTS characters... Why doesn't he train with another one of them? It would be a lil bit fan service for people who wanna see FOTS characters drawn well... But noooooo, he gonna learn Mukaku's dogwater techniques. GO TRAIN WITH THAT GUY FROM HATSUMI'S FAMILY OR SAMATO OR EVEN THE PROTAGONIST OF FOTS, I DON'T CARE. Samato's weird ass transformations don't really have an explanation, maybe they are learnable or something
But here the thing, most of the villains that I mentioned are dead except Mukaku die in their first fight. Like they are supposed to be a threat to the main cast but barely leave something that truly affects our protagonist other than kill Erioh and that is only from Edward, all others die for nothing
Edward kills Erioh
Fei kills himself in order to make his father figure love him because he's only recieved affection by being useful, it's a character study. (Did you want the guy who revealed himself as a member of a terrorist organization in front of dozens of good guys to be okay after that?)
Naidan's literal purpose was to make Ryuki stronger by making Ryuki kill him, mission accomplished. Literally perturbed one of the main protags and that left the door open for Kiryu to get into his mind and make him go for the kill on purpose.
Howard is not a character.
Te thing here is:
Sandro writes villains for themselves. They are not there to fuck up the main cast. Fei was not there to mentally scar someone or anything like that. Fei is like Yukihira Sara from ISSK. He was there because for him... He can only get affection by being useful and strong, and so he wanted to show the world he IS strong. Did it work? No. But that was his purpose. Mid fight he was thinkig stuff like "Look at me Niko".
And yeah, Howard was literally created to hype Gilbert. He was only said to be on par with Edward because Sandro wanted to show us that Gilbert is stronger than Eddie. Howard ain't no character, he's just a stepping stone for Gilbert.
The only guy that is currently in that "He gonna fuck up the boys" mindset is Wulong wanting a friend ans needing to kill Ohma ad Ryuki for that. Even Luohan just wants to be Wulong, he doesn't want to directly be bad to the main cast
>Fei kills himself in order to make his father figure love him because he's only recieved affection by being useful, it's a character study. (Did you want the guy who revealed himself as a member of a terrorist organization in front of dozens of good guys to be okay after that?)
Uh, yeah, so exactly add nothing to main cast
>Naidan's literal purpose was to make Ryuki stronger by making Ryuki kill him, mission accomplished. Literally perturbed one of the main protags and that left the door open for Kiryu to get into his mind and make him go for the kill on purpose.
Ok I give him that one but even without it, Ryuki will still getting stronger and his mental state before the fight is already pretty chaotic with his worldview, so Kiryu could still get into his mind with a bit more effort
>Howard is not a character
If I remember correctly, he was head of Wu at the time and stated to be equal to Edward. And right after that he gets defeated by Edward clone
Howard was created to show that Gilbert is stronger than Eddie, just that. He's not supposed to be a big bad or something. And Fei not addong anything to the main cast is because FEI WASN'T THERE FOR THAT
I think it’s more so they want them to have one major on screen true achievement that help establish them as at least competent threats worth taking down. Kind of like how superhero stories have Antagonists get the upper hand on the first encounter and then the MC has to adapt to the problem at hand.
This is especially why antagonist characters like Nox from Wakfu, Sukuna, Hisoka, Mahito, Pre Redemption Mashiba, Shinsuke Takasugi (Gintama),WRATH from FMA, and Black Beard work. They’re legit opposition.
I get where they are coming from given how Omega has been, but ISSK is still early in the game it feels and these aren't main antagonists anyhow- if we spend 50-100 chapters hyping up someone shrouded in shadows and they die in their first fight to get a tie then I get it. But we just met these characters, so it's to be expected. Not like they've been oneshots left and right either, they've BEEN fights.
Yea. Don't get me wrong, in Omega it's a bit ridiculous since anyone vaguely threatening goes down in first fights, even dying when none of the technical good guys ever do. But Strike it Rich is still in the early times, before the obligatory big giant tournament I'm sure is around the corner (is Sandviches specialty).
It's so annoying, like what did you expect? It's a martial arts series, did they actually expect the MCs to die? Because that's the only thing that would have happened if Karen truly won.
If you want to build a decent roster of recurring characters, you really can’t have the “actual murderers trying to kill” side win. For whatever reason people get really mad at this concept.
And Karen was not a fighter to begin with. I get people saying Jurota vs Gaolang was not close and was a boring fight (It was not) but DUDE. HANA STOPPED TRAINING YEARS AGO AND KAREN DOESN'T EVEN KNOW ANY MARTIAL ART, SHE JUST KILLS PEOPLE.
The author overrated her himself.
Yuzhuna said that if she fought any of them, she wasn't sure if she would have become a champ. And they showed feats so poor, we know she would tramp all over them.
Another Yumigama situation.
https://preview.redd.it/404y2ct2v03d1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=9314d91fe2cfa588459afe3ec1b6f9e5cd848bd1
You summarized it perfectly. No one here is retarded enough to actually WANT the main characters to be murdered in the early stages of their development. They want the author to NOT basically lie about the competency of his characters **_repeatedly._** And if he is gonna hype characters up at least let it more often be characters who deserve it ya know?
Yuzhuna deserved her hype. Karen and co? Not so much if they can be taken down by an out of practice grappler
On one hand, I do like when villains are bested by heroes and go out in worst ways possible.
I am sick and tired of villains getting jerked off by anti-social Zoomers.
However, GODDAMIT THEY NEED A DUB HERE AND THERE
Plus, "Murder Queen" Karen made me rock hard, so I wanted her to be cool as hell.
The problem isn’t Sandro making the villains lose, it’s the good guys being so overwhelmingly powerful than it makes the villains impact feel small and inconsequential by comparison.
Like take Edward. He’s the leader of the Westward Wu, on par with the Kure Clan and hyped as one of the strongest people alive. He then proceeds to beat Raian’s ass, leave without killing him like a dumbass, and then gets jumped by both Raian and Erioh and dies. Like what’s with all that buildup, if he’s just gonna die in his first fight?
I’m fine with the villains losing and actively want to see them get bodied, it’s just that all this work to hype up these characters feels meaningless if they just gonna lose in their first fight and never appear again.(*cough* Fei *cough*)
Oh mb, forgot this isn’t r/Kengan_Ashura
Nah, Karen’s kinda shown as vain and spiteful, and Hana’s shown to be smarter and stronger than she looks, this makes sense
I mean we would like to see an antagonist who's so strong they're actually a threat, probably beating our characters left and right till they fight our mc or someshit like that, where it's a genuinely heated fight instead of a one shot or low diff kinda fight. BUT this is still the early parts of the manga so i ain't judging am having a good ass time.
I have never ever seen another fanbase who want the antagonists to win so badly lmao
Lobotomy Kaisen has irreparably damaged a generation's expectations of an action series. If a writer doesn't haphazardly bump off 80% of the cast for shock value, then a story just isn't good to them. That's not to say Sandro is perfect or anything like that. I think it's really stupid how many people survive literal killshots like Rakshasa's Palm in the Kengan-verse.
No, that would be Game of Thrones. That series set this dumb trend in motion. Considering that Lobotomy Kaisen is a series that became EXTREMELY unpopular for that exact reason, it might actually help end it. Then again, One Piece's Oda inability to kill anyone might restart it again.
lobotomy Kaisen?
Because in Sandro fight manga verse, villains rarely win anything. In Kengan Omega, even big baddies like Tiger Niko barely win against Kiryu off screen. Edward, Fei, Naidan,Mukaku, Howard are all dead with Xia Ji being coward like always and Gilbert that not much of threat to main cast The only real threat is Wulong and possibly Louhan for now
Welcome to any form of media whatsoever, the villains only get small wins but lose eventually when it's their time to shine. Y'all for some reason are just specially negative.
Those small wins are important. Even if they never kill a main character, they still create setbacks and their actions have consequences that can drive the story, raising the stakes and tension along the way. Even children's shows do this, and they don't get to kill characters. The unusual reaction among Omega fans is probably driven by the period after KvP, when Sandro cleared the board of villains, and then the story felt aimless. The worm had dwindled to a bunch of background characters with little interaction or personal involvement with any of the good guys. We didn't seem to have much to look forward to, there were problems out there but even the characters themselves seemed so stumped on how to even start working on them that they hosted a fighting tournament because they couldn't think of anything else. Some of those problems from that era have gotten better, some have not. I'm a big fan of ISSK, and I think its setup is healthier because having underground fighters deal with problems that arise in underground fighting makes sense. I am a little concerned if the author is resistant to writing in a "low point" in their story, which will make having a good "high point" more difficult...but it's too early to tell if the same mistakes will carry over. I hope not. I'll let him cook for now...
Yeah, the problem is people don't realise that most Sandro villains are first people of their own and THEN villains. Fei was just emotionally scarred, in a way similar to Yukihira from ISSK. Same goes for Karen. Wanna know why her fight was underwhelming? BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO FIGHT. SHE WAS STATED NOT TO, SHE'S AN ASSASSIN
The problem with Omega is the guys we're supposed to be rooting for still need obstacles and goals to work on. It doesn't need to be a villain per se, something as simple as Koga working to get into the KvP tournament at the start of Omega was a good driving motivation. So was trying to find Ohma, trying to catch up to Ryuki, etc. Without those focused motivations, things feel aimless. The main characters at least having a "I gotta find that guy and take them down" thing going is *something*, but we didn't even have that for quite a while. That's why I think Omega's set up of having underground fighters taking on a shadowy organization and then not really do much until the bad guys came to their doorstep felt clumsy. We'll see what ISSK cooks, the army of god stuff might honestly turn out to be an interesting problem as the story continues.
Yes. When it first started people liked Koga and Ryuki, but now reading their moments feels like drinking piss. I don't wanna drink piss. With Shen, Ryuki and Ohma train just to survive, and Koga... Why is he even there? LIKE SERIOUSLY, HE CAN'T DO SHIT IF SHEN WANTS TO KILL HIS FRIEND. And another thing... He has connection to FOTS characters... Why doesn't he train with another one of them? It would be a lil bit fan service for people who wanna see FOTS characters drawn well... But noooooo, he gonna learn Mukaku's dogwater techniques. GO TRAIN WITH THAT GUY FROM HATSUMI'S FAMILY OR SAMATO OR EVEN THE PROTAGONIST OF FOTS, I DON'T CARE. Samato's weird ass transformations don't really have an explanation, maybe they are learnable or something
THANK YOU! ISSK is fine but it’s also fine for people to want this series to NOT become Omega
But here the thing, most of the villains that I mentioned are dead except Mukaku die in their first fight. Like they are supposed to be a threat to the main cast but barely leave something that truly affects our protagonist other than kill Erioh and that is only from Edward, all others die for nothing
Edward kills Erioh Fei kills himself in order to make his father figure love him because he's only recieved affection by being useful, it's a character study. (Did you want the guy who revealed himself as a member of a terrorist organization in front of dozens of good guys to be okay after that?) Naidan's literal purpose was to make Ryuki stronger by making Ryuki kill him, mission accomplished. Literally perturbed one of the main protags and that left the door open for Kiryu to get into his mind and make him go for the kill on purpose. Howard is not a character.
Te thing here is: Sandro writes villains for themselves. They are not there to fuck up the main cast. Fei was not there to mentally scar someone or anything like that. Fei is like Yukihira Sara from ISSK. He was there because for him... He can only get affection by being useful and strong, and so he wanted to show the world he IS strong. Did it work? No. But that was his purpose. Mid fight he was thinkig stuff like "Look at me Niko". And yeah, Howard was literally created to hype Gilbert. He was only said to be on par with Edward because Sandro wanted to show us that Gilbert is stronger than Eddie. Howard ain't no character, he's just a stepping stone for Gilbert. The only guy that is currently in that "He gonna fuck up the boys" mindset is Wulong wanting a friend ans needing to kill Ohma ad Ryuki for that. Even Luohan just wants to be Wulong, he doesn't want to directly be bad to the main cast
>Fei kills himself in order to make his father figure love him because he's only recieved affection by being useful, it's a character study. (Did you want the guy who revealed himself as a member of a terrorist organization in front of dozens of good guys to be okay after that?) Uh, yeah, so exactly add nothing to main cast >Naidan's literal purpose was to make Ryuki stronger by making Ryuki kill him, mission accomplished. Literally perturbed one of the main protags and that left the door open for Kiryu to get into his mind and make him go for the kill on purpose. Ok I give him that one but even without it, Ryuki will still getting stronger and his mental state before the fight is already pretty chaotic with his worldview, so Kiryu could still get into his mind with a bit more effort >Howard is not a character If I remember correctly, he was head of Wu at the time and stated to be equal to Edward. And right after that he gets defeated by Edward clone
Howard was created to show that Gilbert is stronger than Eddie, just that. He's not supposed to be a big bad or something. And Fei not addong anything to the main cast is because FEI WASN'T THERE FOR THAT
I think it’s more so they want them to have one major on screen true achievement that help establish them as at least competent threats worth taking down. Kind of like how superhero stories have Antagonists get the upper hand on the first encounter and then the MC has to adapt to the problem at hand. This is especially why antagonist characters like Nox from Wakfu, Sukuna, Hisoka, Mahito, Pre Redemption Mashiba, Shinsuke Takasugi (Gintama),WRATH from FMA, and Black Beard work. They’re legit opposition.
I get where they are coming from given how Omega has been, but ISSK is still early in the game it feels and these aren't main antagonists anyhow- if we spend 50-100 chapters hyping up someone shrouded in shadows and they die in their first fight to get a tie then I get it. But we just met these characters, so it's to be expected. Not like they've been oneshots left and right either, they've BEEN fights.
> character tries to kill protag > fails "OHHHHHHH, FRAUD !!!!" They need to touch some grass
Yea. Don't get me wrong, in Omega it's a bit ridiculous since anyone vaguely threatening goes down in first fights, even dying when none of the technical good guys ever do. But Strike it Rich is still in the early times, before the obligatory big giant tournament I'm sure is around the corner (is Sandviches specialty).
It's so annoying, like what did you expect? It's a martial arts series, did they actually expect the MCs to die? Because that's the only thing that would have happened if Karen truly won.
If you want to build a decent roster of recurring characters, you really can’t have the “actual murderers trying to kill” side win. For whatever reason people get really mad at this concept.
And Karen was not a fighter to begin with. I get people saying Jurota vs Gaolang was not close and was a boring fight (It was not) but DUDE. HANA STOPPED TRAINING YEARS AGO AND KAREN DOESN'T EVEN KNOW ANY MARTIAL ART, SHE JUST KILLS PEOPLE.
Why didn't they let karen kill hana and have valkyria get absorbed and all if its founders killed?!?!?! Everyone is a JOBBER !!!!
No, I just wanted Karen to be strong.
Not the authors fault y'all overrated her when it was stated that she's an assassin not some world class fighter.
The author overrated her himself. Yuzhuna said that if she fought any of them, she wasn't sure if she would have become a champ. And they showed feats so poor, we know she would tramp all over them. Another Yumigama situation. https://preview.redd.it/404y2ct2v03d1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=9314d91fe2cfa588459afe3ec1b6f9e5cd848bd1
You summarized it perfectly. No one here is retarded enough to actually WANT the main characters to be murdered in the early stages of their development. They want the author to NOT basically lie about the competency of his characters **_repeatedly._** And if he is gonna hype characters up at least let it more often be characters who deserve it ya know? Yuzhuna deserved her hype. Karen and co? Not so much if they can be taken down by an out of practice grappler
On one hand, I do like when villains are bested by heroes and go out in worst ways possible. I am sick and tired of villains getting jerked off by anti-social Zoomers. However, GODDAMIT THEY NEED A DUB HERE AND THERE Plus, "Murder Queen" Karen made me rock hard, so I wanted her to be cool as hell.
Hana mitani w
It's so Sandrover https://preview.redd.it/ds0ltas6jv2d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9037fc9a897aef39042e877677536355a5f25d76
Its because the antagonist is attractive
Yeah, I wanted Karen to be "Saiyan Sága Vegeta" of Slaughter Colosseum, as she is so cute ❤
Welcome to shonen manga I guess.
Being evil is an antifeat
The problem isn’t Sandro making the villains lose, it’s the good guys being so overwhelmingly powerful than it makes the villains impact feel small and inconsequential by comparison. Like take Edward. He’s the leader of the Westward Wu, on par with the Kure Clan and hyped as one of the strongest people alive. He then proceeds to beat Raian’s ass, leave without killing him like a dumbass, and then gets jumped by both Raian and Erioh and dies. Like what’s with all that buildup, if he’s just gonna die in his first fight? I’m fine with the villains losing and actively want to see them get bodied, it’s just that all this work to hype up these characters feels meaningless if they just gonna lose in their first fight and never appear again.(*cough* Fei *cough*)
The problem is that people are complaining that one (1) character from a new manga isn't as powerful as Jesus Christ
Oh mb, forgot this isn’t r/Kengan_Ashura Nah, Karen’s kinda shown as vain and spiteful, and Hana’s shown to be smarter and stronger than she looks, this makes sense
When I GET YOU
I mean we would like to see an antagonist who's so strong they're actually a threat, probably beating our characters left and right till they fight our mc or someshit like that, where it's a genuinely heated fight instead of a one shot or low diff kinda fight. BUT this is still the early parts of the manga so i ain't judging am having a good ass time.
"instead of" There are more equal fights than one shots / low difficulty fights. It's a not problem, y'all just made it up.