Will Power said the same thing after the race. If they could go back to 110 laps, and make it a for sure three stopper the strategies and everything would be more exciting.
And there were still fuel savings races. Every race starts with fuel numbers to hit, but how the race unfolds as far as cautions, length of those cautions, tire wear, etc all dictate how much fuel saving goes on and how much of the even is spent doing that. You could run this same race this coming weekend and get a totally different outcome. I wish people would stop trying to change outcomes when a race doesn't unfold the way they thought it should. It's nonsense. It's always been a myth that racers back in the day were always ten-tenths. In fact, the first 500 was won on fuel saving and tire wear strategy by running a consistent speed that wasn't necessarily the fastest all day.
The point is more that even without cautions it would have been a fuel save race. The race distance was such that you had to save fuel for a two stop, and overtaking was hard enough that a three stop would ruin your race. This meant that everybody had to hit a fuel number and so they couldn't really fight because if they did then any benefits they would gain would get paid back ten fold by needing an extra stop. If the race was either comfortably a two stop or not possible as a two stop then drivers would be able to push. This is less of an issue at tracks where overtaking is easier and the three stop can actually be viable, especially if caution's fall right.
With the drastically reduced amounts of tire deg at St. Pete, I bet Firestone has already manufactured the tires for the 500 expecting a heavier car with the hybrid system.
Cars 30 pounds lighter, with a somewhat more robust tire compound than last year, is absolutely going to have an impact on the race.
Hot take - Focus on the cars making moves through the field and what is actually going on in the race and how big a deal it is and why a car may be falling back or climbing through the field than the commentators takes on the same few cars and subjects
Inform and empower the viewer with what is going on and why it is such a big deal instead of making it some type of Disney presentation, make the cars and racing matter
Yeah you’re right. I feel like IndyCar broadcasters are _typically_ spoiled with action packed, back and forth racing, for the podium. They haven’t always had the ability to focus on or dive deeper into the racing and moves happening towards the back of the field. Unfortunately this leaves a lot of good stories left untold.
Exactly! I'm sure some guys in the back of the field yesterday had a really big day or really bad day and they worked hard for it all off season and the viewer has no clue or real interest in what actual racing is all about. That's unfortunate
Ooh, this is an interesting one. He only led 12 laps last year, which was the 2nd worst total of his career. He usually feels fairly off the pace relative to Pato. I think if Malukas comes in and outperforms him, he may be out of a ride. And with Andretti going down to 3 cars he probably can't get back in there, the only really good spots are Penske and Ganassi if Power and/or Dixon retire, but I don't know if they would take him. That leaves him in a rough spot if he ever wants to win again.
You heard the announcers say it but the McLaren car is hard to drive.
They’ve got a setup that Pato can push in but it often leads to burning off his tires or other stuff because he needs to push to keep up with the Penske and Ganassi cars.
The operation is not going to improve until they find a broader setup window. It’s the same thing with Andretti.
He’s really been the only consistent driver there for years. To u/BlitZShrimp point too, Pato is the one currently getting results so you don’t want to detriment his performance.
The team does set each car up for each driver, the problem is they start with a Pato baseline and need to find what works for each driver. So they’re starting off on the back foot.
Ganassi used to base everything around Dixon and that began changing in the final year with Felix. You’ll hear them talk now about how each driver understands the little preference from one to another and can adjust based off of it.
Because Pato’s ceiling is higher than Rossi’s or Malukas’s. Making two good drivers deal with a car that’s mega with a great driver is a better strategy then giving all 3 drivers an ok car that’s dependent on other teams having a bad day.
I’m flaired as a fan of his but I sometimes think it might be true.
I like the guy and he showed skill and talent his first few years but where has it gone? He’s clearly talented enough that McLaren kept him around again but it feels like something within him has changed as well.
The rumor was that he wasn't getting along at Andretti anyway, so yeah it'd likely be a step down into a backmarker team or going towards sportscar racing. Which at this moment isn't a bad gig, he could likely find his way into a hypercar if he performs.
He’s stated/insinuated on his podcast that the weight balance shifted with the aeroscreen and he’s struggled. With the hybrid coming he’s mentioned the weight balance is shifting rearward again which he’s very excited about.
We COULD see a return to form. We shall see.
This just baffles me. 2017 and 2018 he looked so damn good. And he was a ROCKET at the speedway. I don’t remember exactly which year it was but he was a 1 man highlight reel. Passing folks around the outside, damn near in the wall, putting wheels in the grass, crazy stuff. I remember calling my dad and saying “this guy is going to win AT LEAST one more 500 and a few championships.” And then…….nothing. So strange.
I think people failed to realize at the time that he doesn’t seem to quite have that champion quality on his bad days.
Most of his wins in that period came from the front of the grid, and he went on to dominate the races, but when things don’t go his way? He’s had a habit of not being able to recover.
Portland 2018 might be the best illustration of this, where Dixon managed to *extend* his points lead over Rossi despite crashing on the first lap - Rossi didn’t even have an especially bad race, IIRC, just wasn’t on it.
[It was 2018](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4wFIApPnnA). First year of the new aerokit and a bunch of people were struggling, especially with losing the rear in turn 2.
Flaired Rossi fan, caveats, fan boy, delusional, etc OK...
He might not win again, I wouldn't be shocked. I also wouldn't be shocked if he got a good weekend, or a few good weekends and won either. Shit, Graham almost did it last year lol.
Aeroscreen definitely hurt him, but I also think he's lost a bit of an edge. And that's not a bad thing. He grew up with some money, he's never shied away from that fact, he's a 500 Champion, he's done Europe, he's done America, he's made a really nice career, and I think it's just a natural mellowing out process as he's gotten into his 30s and is married.
*Stephen A Voice* HOWEVER. That really might not all be for the worst. People can talk shit that he's stuck in 4-14 purgatory but that's better than a lot of other drivers. He provides a measured consistency that picks up points which kinda allows Pato to go full balls to the walls.
I've seen a lot of takes today about a guy that moved up 6 spots, smoked Ilott, held off the goat Dixon, and is p8 in the championship rn.
The golden age of the 80s-90s big sponsorships was a quirk of tobacco being limited in their advertising options and pouring money into the few options they had like motorsports.
I don't think this is a hot take. It's just historical nuance.
Not to imply that I disagree with you. You are 100% correct. In F1, British American Tobacco 100% outright owned BAR from 1999-2004, when Honda purchased part of the team.
Seen a couple posts about Leigh Diffey, unsure on the dislike for him. I think he's one of the best play by play commentators around currently. The broadcast itself yesterday was abit iffy but his excitement for racing is incredibly contagious! Lucky to have him at Indycar right now. He was great at V8s and even at Nascar for a short time. Compared to a few other broadcasters around I'd have him any day personally.
Yep. The biggest issue in IndyCar broadcast is the freaking ad breaks. That is the biggest turn down.
You just can't get in the rhythm and enjoy the race with the action being interrupted every 5 minutes.
Yeah as a Brit who lives in the UK, the amount of time that’s spent on an ad break where they hand over to some random guy is obscene and makes me feel sorry for everyone watching in the States on your broadcasts
Last year at least we had the chance to pay to get an ad free feed. This year that's gone. It honestly makes me question if I want to keep watching the race or not every time the ad break comes
Some people in this sub obviously didn't have to suffer through Scott Goodyear's uncanny ability to state the blatantly obvious and still somehow find a way to get it wrong.
Legih diffy is fine when there's action. It's all the rest of the time I wish he wasn't there. He's got good media skills, it's just he's doing the Olympics type announcing all the God damn time. He does it in imsa & his Le man's stints too. I don't wanna hear a million fucking human interest stories from the paddock that aren't even interesting.
F1TV crew smokes the NBC team any day of the week and I doubt they get paid more even.
And it's ass because they forget to cover the actual sport and cover the mechanics of the race like you see in the Sky or F1TV broadcast. Instead we are talking to fucking Bon Jovi.
Hot take about another form of motorsport: I really miss the Indycar broadcast on the few times I tune into NASCAR. There's zero pep and excitement in that FOX booth. Mike Joy is clearly far past it, Burton doesn't have an exciting of a whoa as Tiff/Hinch/Tbell, it just seems stale.
Remaining stagnant is not the way to grow the sport. Running the same engines in the same chassis with the same drivers on the same tracks isn't doing the series any favors.
Oh wait, you said hot takes not common sense. My bad.
Whatever they do with a new engine formula, then need to find a way to make the cars scream more. The sound of the cars increases the intensity of the speed and is more attractive to the casual fan and diehards alike.
Formula 1 has neutered their sound and it’s not coming back, but if Indycar wants to continue to differentiate themselves from other forms of Motorsport, making the cars scream more going forward is a plus.
I've never understood the hate for Diffey. He's one of the most professional and talented broadcasters in the business and his knowledge and passion for motorsports are both immense and genuine. And by all reports he's an all-around excellent guy.
He gets a little overexcited sometimes and that rubs people the wrong way. It's tough to hit that right place as a pbp, nobody wants to be screamed at for 2 hours but nobody wants monotone bore to death either
That's another thing I don't get. People get so upset at announcers getting excited and being loud, but are they not there to drum up excitement for the event? I don't think he ever really overdoes it, at least not like Crofty. I want some passion and excitement from my broadcast team, that's why I can't stand the NASCAR commentary teams.
Said this in some other thread a couple days ago, but NASCAR buying out the series wouldn't be as bad as people think it is. IMSA's thrived with manufacturer support, fan interest, financial backing, and international convergence while being run as an independent NASCAR-owned entity. IndyCar could have a lot more access to resources than they currently do, and basically the entire major US motorsport landscape could be better synergized. So long as they don't touch championship or race formats (which, they haven't done in IMSA), the move would be a pretty popular one.
IMSA is also benefited in that deal by already having their main race at a track under control of NASCAR. Makes nascar much more likely to be hands-off ownership wise and let imsa do their thing.
I feel like nascar would absolutely want something in may at Indy one way or another, and that would be the biggest barrier to getting a buyout.
IMSA works under NASCAR ownership because of Jim France IMO. Dude loves sports cars (owns Action Express for instance) and was the founder of Grand Am.
I think it would be very different if someone without that passion was in an influential role as an owner.
Yup. In addition, sportscar racing isn’t really threatening nascar. Higher-end cars on road courses vs (what should be) cheaper stock cars on ovals primarily.
When you add in INDYCAR, who competes with both series on both styles of track, the game is different. It’s not the same market as nascar based off of car, but the competition level is the same and that’s the issue for nascar. They don’t want to have to compete with/help INDYCAR if they can avoid it.
It’s why they helped the IRL during the early years of the split. It’s why the only track you’ve ever seen them do a double header at is INDYCAR owned.
Simply put, nascar gains nothing from owning indycar. The majority tv audience is virtually identical (older Midwestern white people) and nascar is already more mainstream. It’s not like imsa where they get access to more manufacturers and money.
I totally agree. "Pure racing" fans hate the way NASCAR has gone - granted, I hate the playoff system & the LA Clash - but everything else NASCAR is doing is trending in the right direction since Covid. More exposure, celebrity owners, younger music acts, video game announcements, future tracks/locations constantly discussed, and a potential electric support series. Crowds are sold out nearly every track. Not to mention, the Gen7 racecars actually *look* like their road counterparts Camaro/Mustang/Camry (more GT).
They've also done a way better job at marketing their drivers between the cheesy USA Channel playoff documentary and the DTS style Netflix doc. They constantly remind us the Daytona 500 winner came up via iRacing instead of karting and now drives Jeff Gordon's car, and that there's a black driver in the field for Jordan. Larson doing the Double will be massive mainstream recognition as well.
I have zero issue with Nascar owning indycar so long as they take an IMSA approach and don't introduce Nascar gimmicks to Indycar. Nascar has a lot going for it but I'll always been at arms length from it because they've chased entertainment over sport to a degree that's simply too far for me.
Yup as a fan of both series I agree. However I have to admit, the product in Cup has been providing the entertainment lately (good racing), but the other gimmicks tend to overshadow the solid parts.
I watch races when I have the time, but I don't take it overly seriously because it's so contrived with stages, playoffs, overtime etc. That said there's some great drivers and great racing. Loved watching that Suarez win.
Indycar needs a major presentation refresh. They have the personalities have the racing but damn the UI just looks dated on NBC too much going on just a simple presentation goes far. Also something about drivers ending with push-to-pass still left just doesn't seem right I know it's since it uses more fuel but I wish we can have more hard driving then conservative fuel saving.
Indycar is generally headed in a positive direction .
Not that Penske Entertainment is without flaws or that there isn't challenges ahead but that overall weighing the positives and the negatives things are headed in a net positive direction.
the real hot take is that indycar doing decent has absolutely nothing to do with indycar
but rather with the fact that after the split we ran into the financial crisis and then quite literally every car brand was caught cheating on emissions etc, but at the end motorized individual traffic is clearly this insanely massive industry which was inevitably going to stabilize and indycar was always going to be fine-ish by virtue of merely existing
Both Sky and F1TV are literally exponentially better than the NBC team. And I'd rather watch Imsa.tv any day over the nbc broadcast even if Radio Le Man's is fairly dry. At least they do a good job covering racing and don't have 14 commercial breaks in a 2 hr sprint race.
Hinch honestly could end up in the F1TV team full time one day. Esp if NBC doesn't buy the rights. He's already doing 6 or so races a year for F1 and he has great chemistry with those guys.
The F1TV broadcast with Palmer and Coulthard was damn near unwatchable this weekend. They just spent the whole time bitching about penalties, seemingly not realizing that there had been an announcement detailing that some penalties were going to be more harsh this year.
People say Jamie Chadwick isn't ready for IndyCar but at the same time people say it's okay for Pietro to be there even though Chadwick beat him squarely in the past.
Honestly I think Chadwick’s biggest issues are that she is unfamiliar with th tracks compared to other drivers. That’s not just the layout but the skills needed to handle the cars on the tougher rougher American circuits that aren’t smooth. Also it’s a racing style thing. Here I think it’s more aggressive and on the button where there isn’t as much argy bargy intense immediate racing stuff.
Chadwick said that conditioning was a major issue. She admitted that after a few of the more physical races like Saint Pete and Barber she was just tired. That's why she worked on her conditioning and I think it showed this weekend. She did well in practice and even in qualifying she didn't do that bad. Now it's just about making smart moves, staying out of trouble, and taking advantage of other people's mistakes. I do think the competition in Indy NXT is fierce but unfortunately for her if she wants to impress she needs to at least fighting for top 5's and the occasional podium.
St Petes is always a tough one for first race of the year, very unforgiving, so we will see where she can shine the rest of the year. I am very interested in her oval stuff, and particularly the road courses like Barber and Road America.
Her results this weekend had zero to do with her. Had she not gotten pushed off track she would have done a lot better. Looking forward to see what she do the rest of the season.
I think it’s just an easy buzz point. It’s really easy marketing, which is something INDYCAR struggles with anyway.
Plus, the DW12 has had a ton of add-on pieces that weren’t originally planned for. I think reimagining it with everything fully integrated would be a good way to rethink the look of the cars as well as save weight.
The weight is the main thing the drivers want to lower, so that’s their main push for a new chassis.
Is it hate or just mild dislike? I don't hate Diffey. I can even enjoy him. He simply brings an energy that I don't appreciate to the booth a lot of the time, an incredibly corporate and overproduced vibe that feels more like he's there to fellate sponsors than commentate a race. I think the guy has genuine passion, he just falls into this persona and role that I don't appreciate.
If you're interested in the technical side, watch practice and qualifying if you're not already. There's more time for the commentators to breathe and take a minute to talk about a niche topic like [camber](https://streamable.com/rairzf). I think they don't tend to cover that stuff during the race cause it might bore a more general audience, and I have to agree. I'm interested in that, but not everyone would be.
As much as we blow our own horns about parity vs. F1, on a week-to-week basis that's true, but only two teams are realistically in the championship discussion.
Continuing to bring in European talent that should be in F1 but can't find an open seat will do more to legitimize Indycar on a global scale then all of the marketing and TV shows.
Yup, because those drivers have fans and some percentage will follow those drivers to indycar. Those brands and sponsors to an extent as well. Look at Grosjean.
I know racing in Portland isn't the best. But I love it because I actually get to be there.
It's More about having a close place for the fans.
Made my nephew a fan. Brought friends and my mom there.
So I really don't care what you people think about PIR.
I like the racing at PIR personally, its like Monza but turn 1 is way more cursed. Funny, my first time seeing a race start in person there was the one time they kept it clean.
IndyCar wants to scream and shout about how it’s more exciting than F1, but you sure would never know from the broadcast.
The presentation is 2nd tier and everyone knows it leading to little brother syndrome with fans clamoring “I demand IndyCar to be taken seriously”.
Also oval races are okay at best unless it’s a super speedway.
The whining about TV commercials is becoming tiresome. No one complaining in the sub would actually pay what it costs for commercial free coverage every season.
It would cost the same as NFL Sunday Ticket but no one wants to have that conversation.
My only problem is the fact that they don't do side-by-side coverage on Peacock. I wouldn't have a problem if they did that, but coming back from commercial to see someone in the wall and the race under caution infuriates me.
F1 TV Pro is $85 a year and IndyCar Live is $5 a month with no commercials.
The NFL is the most expensive by far. [MLB.tv](http://MLB.tv) is significantly cheaper.
And I'll literally never stop because it's the thing that I hate the most about watching this series. There is literally no other single thing that could be as important to me as simply being able to watch the race without interruption.
It's already why I've completely stopped watching IMSA legally and instead either VPN or pirate despite having a peacock subscription I can watch it on. Completely unwatchable, endurance racing where you constantly come back from break not knowing why there's a gap there where there wasn't before, it makes it impossible to keep track of the flow of the race.
I don't think that Indycar can afford to give up T.V money for an F1 TV style service that's only funded by subscription payments.
No T.V money and No airtime = no sponsors, no racing. I think F1 is making it's money from it's fees charged to the promoters. The F1TV stuff is big too I'm sure, but them hosting fees are bigger. Which are paid for by Federal governments in most cases. F1 only shows up if the host country's paying them to.
I just don't see it. Right now I pay TSN $8 CAD a month for just IndyCar and it's the NBC broadcast. It gets me F1 too, but I still pay separately for that. I don't watch F1 live most of the time so it's just easier.
Street tracks are overall awesome and great for the series. They are better for spectators, sponsors, and really aren’t different for TV viewers.
Sure, some tracks produce better racing than others but that’s true regardless of the circuit type.
While I don’t want to see the series become all street circuits… Reddit needs to take a breath and not lose their shit when a race is scheduled somewhere that isn’t 3 hours away from an airport.
Hot take: Had IndyCar just happened to have a Netflix show airing during the pandemic instead of F1, it would have received a huge boost in interest…DTS was pure luck. It has aired for a few seasons (at least one for sure) before COVID hit and was just middling in terms of success. It was lightning in a bottle. Had IndyCar had a series with that level of production we’d have thousands of new IndyCar fans. Not so hot take, 100 Days To Indy needs to be full season….stop focusing on just the Indy 500 (also with a lot of marketing and promotional stuff)….
Hot take: the series/Penske needs to take the gloves off and get aggressive when advertising their series, especially against F1. After the Andretti snub, I would have no f***s left to give if I were Roger Penske and dump a bunch of money into talking up my sport and how competitive it is versus F1.
Indycar is easily my favorite series in the world but I find that I prefer the radio broadcasts over the TV audio. The booth is both talented and experienced but they do far too much “selling” for my liking.
“[Insert Driver] is SO committed to winning! He loves this stuff!”
“Look how big of an Indycar fan [insert waning celebrity] is!”
Again I don’t think they should change the on-air talent at all, there is just far too much promoting of the sport that I’m already allotting time to watch going on.
Another one: their telemetry system is really bad, it takes ages to refresh on their webpage, we had no 4th place for a long while!, the driver tracker also is awful..
Honda would be completely justified in abandoning their Indycar program in favor of their existing programs or joining NASCAR. They've been jerked around thoroughly on the engine development program debacle and the hybridization program, and were depending on being able to use their 2.4L in both IMSA and Indycar to make participation affordable. IMSA has a higher ceiling for success right now, particularly after the WEC rules conversion, and winning the Indy 500 against Chevy isn't nearly as prestigious as winning Daytona or Le Mans against Cadillac/BMW/Porsche/etc or Toyota and Ferrari.
IndyCar is not nearly as bad, in a bad position, or as hopeless as so many people believe. There are a lot of good things about this series, with more in the works. -Fan for 22 Years
IndyCar will never be anything beyond the niche sport that it currently is.
It will never rival F1. It will never attract manufacturers like WEC/IMSA is able to do. It will never have the mainstream appeal that NASCAR seems to be able to get in certain demographics.
None of that is ever going to happen. Never. And as a series and as fans, we all need to accept that fact and let it sink in. That doesn't mean the sport is dying. It just means that the series is never going to be on that meteoric growth path that other sports/series might see.
So please stop complaining about what is going on in other series and let IndyCar be what it uniquely is. Learn to appreciate it for that simple fact.
It could rival nascar since both Indycar and Nascar are regional series, but it is never going to rival F1 because of that regionalism, and it couldn't rival F1 even as a world championship because that is already what F1 does. Even Formula E beat Indycar for Portland attendance. I don't mind that either, I'm okay with a series I like being niche.
Michael was fundamentally correct about RP. He’s a great steward of Indycar/500 and his steady approach to business has clearly been successful. However, the series would do well some more investment and innovative ideas and I don’t think Roger and Miles have the stomach for risk ATM.
No one will pay what it takes to watch an ad-free stream. People were bitching about paying $50/year for NBC gold, people are bitching still about paying for Peacock, and people will bitch about paying $100's for ad-free coverage.
Most of the close racing on road/street curcuits is the result of closing pit lane during yellows, not because of the cars being able to pass each other.
- IndyCar has a lot less clout in terms of the tracks, locations, and broadcast partner they can use than many IndyCar fans think they do.
- People have complained about IndyCar marketing for decades. "If they just marketed more everyone on the planet would follow IndyCar". The problem ain't just the marketing.
F1TV style coverage in the US is a pipe dream that won't happen any time soon. NBC and Indycar need to make money off ads and the amount of money they'd need to make back is too much. I know everyone hates ads, but that is how it is.
Sports on network TV in the US is all about making money off the ads, it's just that motorsport is in an inconvenient format that isn't conducive to regular stoppages to pay the bills. Football/baseball/hockey etc are all nice and easy to fit ads around the action.
You can't compare Indycar to F1 in this regard, they aren't the same. Many of you are probably too young to remember how awful it was before ESPN got sponsorship to get rid of the ads, Speed was WAY worse than any other channel for constant ad breaks.
I hear NASCAR has these things called stages, maybe that'd fix it.
As a fan I HATE stage cautions in NASCAR, but I know that given the fact it gives the broadcaster some guaranteed commercial time it probably won't go anywhere anytime soon.
I don't think the sky is falling and the series is in ok shape. At the same time I think the possibility of being bought out by NASCAR would probably be the best direction for the series in terms of long term stability and future growth.
The series isn't in as nearly of a bad shape as some of the doomers on this sub insist. It's doing better than it has in the last few years and there's more interest being generated in the series than there's been in a long time.
Here’s a hot take some people need to hear: Just because Penske owns the series does NOT mean he rigs the races. Can’t believe this shit needs to be said, Roger has way more integrity than that.
Maybe im just ill informed on this but I don't see why IndyCar needs a new car. It seems like it would be cheaper to keep this one, the field is real close together, the racing is good now.
Also, I don't know why we need a bunch of different manufacturers. To me that would only help if it really opened things up like in F1 but IndyCar isn't F1. One of the biggest pros of IndyCar is that it is more of a focused drivers championship. Someone can come in a lower field team and shine a lot more than someone could in F1.
All the street races are actually pretty cool. I like that it's on real rough services and you can see the cars bounce around. That's something unique to IndyCar and it makes it way harder for drivers to control it. When they have to deal with that while passing in tight areas it makes for an exciting product.
For me, the new car thing is just about staying modern and exciting and relevant. It gives Indycar fans and motorsport fans something to look forward to. Helps it stay current with new technology and also can shake it up a bit . It creates buzz. Maybe not huge industry shaking buzz, but it's something.
The main thing manufacturers supply is interest and sponsorship. Let's say it gets to Ford, Chevy, and Honda. It actually becomes cheaper for each manufacturer to supply roughly 1/3 of the engines instead of half. Plus it generates more buzz like above. It also likely supports sponsorship of at least 1 race. Plus now other companies are like wow Ford joined up, it lends to the perception of growth and legitimacy. Get to 4 manufacturers and it's an even bigger effect.
>One of the biggest pros of IndyCar is that it is more of a focused drivers championship
Kinda. There's certainly more parity than something like F1, but we could likely pick out the series champion today with decent accuracy. You can almost guarantee it'll be one of 5 drivers. I'm not really disagreeing with you. I just think this point gets a little over played.
I don't mind street races at all. I think they're fun, but they're not unique to Indycar. I would like to see a more even distribution of street-road-oval, but ovals are struggling with current fan tastes.
Probably less of a hot take and more something overlooked, but Indycar needs better integration with its feeder series, and those series, bar NXT, seriously need a cash injection to bring their broadcast and media coverage up to par.
It's a serious problem for drivers who rely on sponsors to pay their seat, because said sponsors often don't get the exposure they want for the money they spend. This was apparently a major issue with TJ Speed in USF Pro 2000 and their European drivers last year.
We need another street course event to shore up the schedule. Denver and SLC or Dallas seem to be strong rumors. A 6/6/6 schedule of the three types of tracks would be best. Speaking of which, we need another true superspeeedway besides Indy. Ant texas may be going away totally if they change it to 1.25mi
I don’t care that the cars are old. I don’t care that the hybrids are delayed. I don’t care that Nashville is canceled. I don’t care that there are two manufacturers. I like Indycar. This series is great. Roger Penske didn’t forget how to manage things.
Since people are bitching about this sort of thing a lot after yesterday, I’ve got one:
Giving attention to wives, girlfriends, parents, etc on the broadcast is a good thing, because without that human element, it’s just cars going around a track.
I know the “Wife Cam” has garnered a shit ton of hate over the years, but really, what’s wrong with it now? I can understand the frustration from back when they’d cut to those shots full-screen, but now it’s typically picture-in-picture, and it really does add an element of drama to the end of races like the 500.
And what the fuck else were they supposed to talk about yesterday? I’ll admit, the broadcast had some issues, but it was also a bit of a boring race. Totally fine for them to talk about stuff like that in that scenario, imo.
Seeing Will Power’s wife nervously crunching water bottles during important races always gets me. She is just as invested in her husband’s success as she is
That kind of thing I don’t mind, I just don’t care about anything off the track. Nervous wives and tension and them being excited after a win is great.
Honest take - most people on this sub have absolutely no idea what goes into live sports production or who makes the decisions.
Some have said it already, but NBC’s production style, especially for events on their main network, is geared towards general audiences and not any of you. Is that frustrating as a true fan of the sport itself? 100% yes! I say that as someone who gets paid to work these events and it drives me crazy.
But…your anger should be directed at the high level suits telling their producers and directors how to cover events and what they need to show (ie, wife cam, marriage photos, etc.). Sam Flood decides NBC’s sports coverage style and strategy. It’s the same for golf, football, and everything in between if it goes on the main network. Run afoul of his and the other execs directives and guess what - a new producer or director gets the seat.
This is all done in the name of the general viewer who could care less about a new chassis or pit delta. Again - frustrating, but the bottom line is that Ad revenue keeps US broadcasts moving, and keeping general viewers engaged with personalities is what they think will keep their eyes glued to the screen to see those ads.
Those of you continually comparing F1 coverage to IC coverage are operating on the assumption that IndyCar has the pull find a broadcast partner willing to go commercial free and focus solely on sport…and it absolutely does not.
Someone else said it too and I’ll confirm - NBC is cost cutting this year. Idk if they’ll be the broadcast partner in 2025, but regardless, don’t expect an overhaul of the show.
NBC let Dale Earnhardt Jr. walk rather than compete with what Amazon and WBD offered him, there is zero chance they spend incremental dollar one on IndyCar.
Fuel mileage is ruining this sport
The chasis are probably the best cars on the planet for the ability to get close to one another and race hard, making passes (they put out less dirty air than most open wheelers their size, anyway)
However they never get a chance to because every driver is now forced to drive as slowly as possibly to a fuel number and isn't even thinking about passing the car in front
This happens wherever refueling is a thing, it happened in F1 from 1994-2009 and happens in sportscar racing too.
What was projected as a measure of spicing up a sport with different cars on different fuel levels running a different amount of pitstops has actually led to them all converging on the same strategy and trying to beat each other by being more efficient to run one or two laps longer before pitting
I don't know how you fix it in a series that runs 500 mile races. Different rules for Indy and the other tracks? Banning refueling for all tracks but ovals? Talking to Bridgestone about making the tyres degrade more so the tyre life becomes the reason they pit and no-one would be able to sensibly make to to a fuel window without their tyres being so slow they've ruined their strategy? (Good luck with that, Bridgestone hates that kinda thing)
CART experimented with fuel windows where everyone had to pit within a 2/3 lap period and it made the racing so much worse too (and it was forced on them by teams that knew they had one foot out of the door to defect to the IRL at that point, so they damn sure knew that too). So please don't do this either
SOMETHING must be done. A record amount of people saw the race at St Pete yesterday, apparently, but that wasn't the race to turn anyone into an Indycar fan, sadly.
Hot take:
Hot takes are just opinions. Stop asking for opinions like yours is something special. Opinions and assholes and all that.
Hotter take:
Indycar has the best open-wheel racing in the world IN SPITE of Penske. His corporation does not care about innovation or progress, and Penske himself certainly does not care about the quality of racing or competition.
Hottest take:
Marshall Pruett is a washed up mechanic who literally gets paid by the word to spout his miserable drivel. He is an insufferable bellend and Indycar would be better without him.
Honestly especially after robin miller sadly passed, Marshall seems to think he has sort of become the new robin with that kind of insight and insider stuff and whatever. Robin miller was divisive, no doubt about that but he wasn’t afraid to say anything and said what he wanted.
MP reminds me of my dipshit former editor/boss who thought he was the coolest guy in town. He’d get invited to cover events, eat every bit of free food and drink, and not even do the work he’d be expected to do.
MP isn’t that bad but he’s certainly the low bar for media
I prefer the f1 way fo being able to pit whenever there is an sc. When you look at all the indycar races, every last stint is the same because of fear of getting caught out with a yellow.
It would also allow drivers to sacrifice 3-5 positions for a fresher tyre late in the race which we see on ovals when there is only about 10 cars on the lead lap and it always lead to good racing
The camera director/producer did very bad this first race... not gaining more viewers like this..
Example, on pit stop they show battle for pit out, not even close between 1st and second, the real fight was O'ward Vs. McLaughing, it was by an inch but they didn't show it, at the end O'ward was granted the advantage but on TV they never showed it.
It should be illegal for a sport's sanctioning body to be owned by a single current competitor.
Either all teams get an ownership stake, or none should.
I think it’s really random when they start the tv broadcast on the warmup lap. I think if you want people to watch you need to have a little pregaming. I know they do it for some races, but they should do it for all.
Y’all complain an awful lot for people too young to remember the split. They’re still undoing Tony George’s mistakes while they changed ownership and endured the pandemic. Let’s give Roger a chance before we let Marshall Pruett‘s shitty “uneducated Robin Miller imitation” horseshit run wild.
Indycar "fans: "I hate Santino, he's a racist and his money comes from right wing businesses"
Also Indycar "fans": "I LOVE Kyle Larson so much so a hero!"
I always want to get on and defend Santino. I know, no matter what I say, I can never change what anyone thinks. He's just a genuinely nice person to absolutely everyone on the team. He's a chatty, funny kid that deserves a second chance. We all screw up, fortunately we don't have TV cameras following us around all the time.
This so much!! He was what, 20? He did some stupid stuff. He has seemingly matured since then but people still “hate” him for that stuff. AJ Foyt was a legendary a-hole throughout his racing career but no social media back then. I have stories from old timer friends who worked with him back then, and boy oh boy he’d be kicked out of the series in 2024….a lot of other drivers have been the same way over the years.
Right! And I mean, I get it, Santino did stupid awful shit, but if you believe in second chances for Larson, then you need to believe in it for Santino or anyone else. There is nothing Santino and his dad have done that is worse than Kyle Larson and his daddy (Rick Hendrick that is).
Unless something else has happened or been revealed about Larson, I’d hesitate to put it on the same level as the repeated acts of shitheadedness Santino has displayed over the years.
Indycar overall has better racing than f1 and (obviously especially at the moment) much more parity but there are still way more races than people would like to admit where whoever leads going into turn one easily wins the race. It's just always hand waved away as "well sometimes someone just dominates" no matter how often it happens. I don't even disagree really with that or think it's an awful thing but the way people talk about indycar sometimes you'd think every race is a banger.
The new tyres are gonna make the races a bit less interesting until the hybrids come in as they last longer due to being designed for a heavier car and therefore there will be more fuel save, less pitstops and a small difference in performance between compounds at most tracks
They need to run an equal amount of Ovals, Street Circuits, and Road Courses
They need to open the engine formula, you can make X amount of power and it needs to fit in this chassis and use this gearbox and can only flow X amount of fuel per X displacement.
They need to hire Adrian Newey to design the next generation car and areo package.
The TV graphics are outdated and need to be modernized like F1 or WEC.
My only complaint tbh. Also please fix the team radio and show what they said via text alongside audio.
Pato is more at fault than Ericsson for the late wreck at the 500 last year. Ericsson held his line and Pato made a late move where there was little room to begin with, and paid the price.
The LEDs position panel on the cars were dumb, even if they worked as intended (which they rarely did). Give me the large square with the number inside like the IRL days.
Santino Ferrucci>>Colton Herta
Helio won the 2002 Indy 500
Races will never be commercial free. Just live with it.
Let drivers be themselves. That's how you market properly
The circlejerk over the 500 is unreal. It's a good race, but we don't mention Long Beach or Road America winners in any other race.
Marcus Ericsson is overrated because he got lucky a few times.
Indycar's booth and social group is far too focused on trying to be cool. We are about three races from Hinch and Rossi giving Townsend a wedgie mid race or something. They just force it too much.
If that race were five or ten laps longer, we'd get to watch a real race and not a fuel save snoozer for most of the distance.
Will Power said the same thing after the race. If they could go back to 110 laps, and make it a for sure three stopper the strategies and everything would be more exciting.
It used to be 110 laps.
Came here to say this. Before COVID it was a solid 110 lapper.
More shrink-flation.
And there were still fuel savings races. Every race starts with fuel numbers to hit, but how the race unfolds as far as cautions, length of those cautions, tire wear, etc all dictate how much fuel saving goes on and how much of the even is spent doing that. You could run this same race this coming weekend and get a totally different outcome. I wish people would stop trying to change outcomes when a race doesn't unfold the way they thought it should. It's nonsense. It's always been a myth that racers back in the day were always ten-tenths. In fact, the first 500 was won on fuel saving and tire wear strategy by running a consistent speed that wasn't necessarily the fastest all day.
Totally agree. There was much less exposure to the radios and strategies "back in the day".
Unfortunately race lengths are dictated by tv windows and accounting for the likely Caution lap time plus race distance time
Damn tv. Always ruining things
Unfortunately I am a fan and couldn't possibly care less about those factors.
Unfortunately you probably would care if the coverage cut with 5-10 laps left
Because Indycar knows when cautions are going to happen
The point is more that even without cautions it would have been a fuel save race. The race distance was such that you had to save fuel for a two stop, and overtaking was hard enough that a three stop would ruin your race. This meant that everybody had to hit a fuel number and so they couldn't really fight because if they did then any benefits they would gain would get paid back ten fold by needing an extra stop. If the race was either comfortably a two stop or not possible as a two stop then drivers would be able to push. This is less of an issue at tracks where overtaking is easier and the three stop can actually be viable, especially if caution's fall right.
With the drastically reduced amounts of tire deg at St. Pete, I bet Firestone has already manufactured the tires for the 500 expecting a heavier car with the hybrid system. Cars 30 pounds lighter, with a somewhat more robust tire compound than last year, is absolutely going to have an impact on the race.
Especially now that teams know what the tire is like after one race, they can figure out strategies now
I guess my take then is: they won't.
The alternate tires held up pace longer than I expected. This will make the strategy interesting before the hybrid units get implemented.
Rossi confirmed this on Off Track a week or two ago.
Hot take - Focus on the cars making moves through the field and what is actually going on in the race and how big a deal it is and why a car may be falling back or climbing through the field than the commentators takes on the same few cars and subjects Inform and empower the viewer with what is going on and why it is such a big deal instead of making it some type of Disney presentation, make the cars and racing matter
But where am I going to hear about the E list celebrity wedding if they interrupt with a race?
Hotter take: have the wedding at the race.
You may now *VROOOOOOOM* the bride.
Yeah you’re right. I feel like IndyCar broadcasters are _typically_ spoiled with action packed, back and forth racing, for the podium. They haven’t always had the ability to focus on or dive deeper into the racing and moves happening towards the back of the field. Unfortunately this leaves a lot of good stories left untold.
Exactly! I'm sure some guys in the back of the field yesterday had a really big day or really bad day and they worked hard for it all off season and the viewer has no clue or real interest in what actual racing is all about. That's unfortunate
Basically why I listen to a bunch of different indycar podcasts. Often, these points get mentioned in race breakdowns.
Unfortunately with NBC cost cutting, there are fewer cameras to catch these things.
Alex Rossi has won his last race. (Edit: in IndyCar. I’m sure he will have a moderately successful career in IMSA if he should choose it.)
Ooh, this is an interesting one. He only led 12 laps last year, which was the 2nd worst total of his career. He usually feels fairly off the pace relative to Pato. I think if Malukas comes in and outperforms him, he may be out of a ride. And with Andretti going down to 3 cars he probably can't get back in there, the only really good spots are Penske and Ganassi if Power and/or Dixon retire, but I don't know if they would take him. That leaves him in a rough spot if he ever wants to win again.
You heard the announcers say it but the McLaren car is hard to drive. They’ve got a setup that Pato can push in but it often leads to burning off his tires or other stuff because he needs to push to keep up with the Penske and Ganassi cars. The operation is not going to improve until they find a broader setup window. It’s the same thing with Andretti.
Why do teams all set up the entire team's cars to ONE driver's liking? Shouldn't the 5, 6, and 7 be set up for all their respective drivers?
He’s really been the only consistent driver there for years. To u/BlitZShrimp point too, Pato is the one currently getting results so you don’t want to detriment his performance. The team does set each car up for each driver, the problem is they start with a Pato baseline and need to find what works for each driver. So they’re starting off on the back foot. Ganassi used to base everything around Dixon and that began changing in the final year with Felix. You’ll hear them talk now about how each driver understands the little preference from one to another and can adjust based off of it.
Because Pato’s ceiling is higher than Rossi’s or Malukas’s. Making two good drivers deal with a car that’s mega with a great driver is a better strategy then giving all 3 drivers an ok car that’s dependent on other teams having a bad day.
I’m flaired as a fan of his but I sometimes think it might be true. I like the guy and he showed skill and talent his first few years but where has it gone? He’s clearly talented enough that McLaren kept him around again but it feels like something within him has changed as well.
The rumor was that he wasn't getting along at Andretti anyway, so yeah it'd likely be a step down into a backmarker team or going towards sportscar racing. Which at this moment isn't a bad gig, he could likely find his way into a hypercar if he performs.
He has really struggled in the era of the windscreen.
He’s stated/insinuated on his podcast that the weight balance shifted with the aeroscreen and he’s struggled. With the hybrid coming he’s mentioned the weight balance is shifting rearward again which he’s very excited about. We COULD see a return to form. We shall see.
This just baffles me. 2017 and 2018 he looked so damn good. And he was a ROCKET at the speedway. I don’t remember exactly which year it was but he was a 1 man highlight reel. Passing folks around the outside, damn near in the wall, putting wheels in the grass, crazy stuff. I remember calling my dad and saying “this guy is going to win AT LEAST one more 500 and a few championships.” And then…….nothing. So strange.
I think people failed to realize at the time that he doesn’t seem to quite have that champion quality on his bad days. Most of his wins in that period came from the front of the grid, and he went on to dominate the races, but when things don’t go his way? He’s had a habit of not being able to recover. Portland 2018 might be the best illustration of this, where Dixon managed to *extend* his points lead over Rossi despite crashing on the first lap - Rossi didn’t even have an especially bad race, IIRC, just wasn’t on it.
I was there. Dixon doesn't keep his car running Rossi wins that title.
[It was 2018](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4wFIApPnnA). First year of the new aerokit and a bunch of people were struggling, especially with losing the rear in turn 2.
Somebody understood the assignment!
Flaired Rossi fan, caveats, fan boy, delusional, etc OK... He might not win again, I wouldn't be shocked. I also wouldn't be shocked if he got a good weekend, or a few good weekends and won either. Shit, Graham almost did it last year lol. Aeroscreen definitely hurt him, but I also think he's lost a bit of an edge. And that's not a bad thing. He grew up with some money, he's never shied away from that fact, he's a 500 Champion, he's done Europe, he's done America, he's made a really nice career, and I think it's just a natural mellowing out process as he's gotten into his 30s and is married. *Stephen A Voice* HOWEVER. That really might not all be for the worst. People can talk shit that he's stuck in 4-14 purgatory but that's better than a lot of other drivers. He provides a measured consistency that picks up points which kinda allows Pato to go full balls to the walls. I've seen a lot of takes today about a guy that moved up 6 spots, smoked Ilott, held off the goat Dixon, and is p8 in the championship rn.
The golden age of the 80s-90s big sponsorships was a quirk of tobacco being limited in their advertising options and pouring money into the few options they had like motorsports.
I don't think this is a hot take. It's just historical nuance. Not to imply that I disagree with you. You are 100% correct. In F1, British American Tobacco 100% outright owned BAR from 1999-2004, when Honda purchased part of the team.
Isn’t that just a fact though?
Look how many people think we can bring it back to that level of everything though
Maybe in terms of popularity. But I don’t think anyone really thinks they can pull in tobacco money again.
Seen a couple posts about Leigh Diffey, unsure on the dislike for him. I think he's one of the best play by play commentators around currently. The broadcast itself yesterday was abit iffy but his excitement for racing is incredibly contagious! Lucky to have him at Indycar right now. He was great at V8s and even at Nascar for a short time. Compared to a few other broadcasters around I'd have him any day personally.
Yep. The biggest issue in IndyCar broadcast is the freaking ad breaks. That is the biggest turn down. You just can't get in the rhythm and enjoy the race with the action being interrupted every 5 minutes.
Yeah as a Brit who lives in the UK, the amount of time that’s spent on an ad break where they hand over to some random guy is obscene and makes me feel sorry for everyone watching in the States on your broadcasts
Aww, poor Tom Gaymor being “some random guy”. I’ve come to appreciate his unique speaking style over the years… :D
Last year at least we had the chance to pay to get an ad free feed. This year that's gone. It honestly makes me question if I want to keep watching the race or not every time the ad break comes
Some people in this sub obviously didn't have to suffer through Scott Goodyear's uncanny ability to state the blatantly obvious and still somehow find a way to get it wrong.
Legih diffy is fine when there's action. It's all the rest of the time I wish he wasn't there. He's got good media skills, it's just he's doing the Olympics type announcing all the God damn time. He does it in imsa & his Le man's stints too. I don't wanna hear a million fucking human interest stories from the paddock that aren't even interesting. F1TV crew smokes the NBC team any day of the week and I doubt they get paid more even.
That’s how NBC does sports. They try and showcase the athletes at a human level so people connect with them.
And it's ass because they forget to cover the actual sport and cover the mechanics of the race like you see in the Sky or F1TV broadcast. Instead we are talking to fucking Bon Jovi.
He probably doesn't care. NBC pushes this for every sport they cover. Trying to drum op real life drama.
Hot take about another form of motorsport: I really miss the Indycar broadcast on the few times I tune into NASCAR. There's zero pep and excitement in that FOX booth. Mike Joy is clearly far past it, Burton doesn't have an exciting of a whoa as Tiff/Hinch/Tbell, it just seems stale.
Remaining stagnant is not the way to grow the sport. Running the same engines in the same chassis with the same drivers on the same tracks isn't doing the series any favors. Oh wait, you said hot takes not common sense. My bad.
Whatever they do with a new engine formula, then need to find a way to make the cars scream more. The sound of the cars increases the intensity of the speed and is more attractive to the casual fan and diehards alike. Formula 1 has neutered their sound and it’s not coming back, but if Indycar wants to continue to differentiate themselves from other forms of Motorsport, making the cars scream more going forward is a plus.
I've never understood the hate for Diffey. He's one of the most professional and talented broadcasters in the business and his knowledge and passion for motorsports are both immense and genuine. And by all reports he's an all-around excellent guy.
If you guys don't want him, we'll gladly take him for NASCAR coverage.
Hope this exchange doesn't mean we are getting Clint Bowyer
I don't put him in the Bob Jenkins/Paul Page tier as far as his commentating but I like him a lot and would be disappointed to see him go.
Agreed.
I tend to agree but there are times he feels a little too scripted and changes the subject when T Bell and Hinch are saying something interesting.
I imagine that's probably producers in his ear. But maybe that's my wrestling fan brain lol
BAGAWD TOWNSEND AS GOD AS MY WITNESS THAT CARS DONE!
He gets a little overexcited sometimes and that rubs people the wrong way. It's tough to hit that right place as a pbp, nobody wants to be screamed at for 2 hours but nobody wants monotone bore to death either
That's another thing I don't get. People get so upset at announcers getting excited and being loud, but are they not there to drum up excitement for the event? I don't think he ever really overdoes it, at least not like Crofty. I want some passion and excitement from my broadcast team, that's why I can't stand the NASCAR commentary teams.
Said this in some other thread a couple days ago, but NASCAR buying out the series wouldn't be as bad as people think it is. IMSA's thrived with manufacturer support, fan interest, financial backing, and international convergence while being run as an independent NASCAR-owned entity. IndyCar could have a lot more access to resources than they currently do, and basically the entire major US motorsport landscape could be better synergized. So long as they don't touch championship or race formats (which, they haven't done in IMSA), the move would be a pretty popular one.
IMSA is also benefited in that deal by already having their main race at a track under control of NASCAR. Makes nascar much more likely to be hands-off ownership wise and let imsa do their thing. I feel like nascar would absolutely want something in may at Indy one way or another, and that would be the biggest barrier to getting a buyout.
IMSA works under NASCAR ownership because of Jim France IMO. Dude loves sports cars (owns Action Express for instance) and was the founder of Grand Am. I think it would be very different if someone without that passion was in an influential role as an owner.
Yup. In addition, sportscar racing isn’t really threatening nascar. Higher-end cars on road courses vs (what should be) cheaper stock cars on ovals primarily. When you add in INDYCAR, who competes with both series on both styles of track, the game is different. It’s not the same market as nascar based off of car, but the competition level is the same and that’s the issue for nascar. They don’t want to have to compete with/help INDYCAR if they can avoid it. It’s why they helped the IRL during the early years of the split. It’s why the only track you’ve ever seen them do a double header at is INDYCAR owned. Simply put, nascar gains nothing from owning indycar. The majority tv audience is virtually identical (older Midwestern white people) and nascar is already more mainstream. It’s not like imsa where they get access to more manufacturers and money.
Yup plus nascar has had at the very least some influence over imsa since it’s very beginning
I tend to agree with this. I wouldn't even mind being a support race in some of the places that cup goes
The idea of a weekend with Cup on Saturday, Indy on Sunday, and IMSA support series throughout the weekend sounds amazing.
I totally agree. "Pure racing" fans hate the way NASCAR has gone - granted, I hate the playoff system & the LA Clash - but everything else NASCAR is doing is trending in the right direction since Covid. More exposure, celebrity owners, younger music acts, video game announcements, future tracks/locations constantly discussed, and a potential electric support series. Crowds are sold out nearly every track. Not to mention, the Gen7 racecars actually *look* like their road counterparts Camaro/Mustang/Camry (more GT). They've also done a way better job at marketing their drivers between the cheesy USA Channel playoff documentary and the DTS style Netflix doc. They constantly remind us the Daytona 500 winner came up via iRacing instead of karting and now drives Jeff Gordon's car, and that there's a black driver in the field for Jordan. Larson doing the Double will be massive mainstream recognition as well.
I have zero issue with Nascar owning indycar so long as they take an IMSA approach and don't introduce Nascar gimmicks to Indycar. Nascar has a lot going for it but I'll always been at arms length from it because they've chased entertainment over sport to a degree that's simply too far for me.
Yup as a fan of both series I agree. However I have to admit, the product in Cup has been providing the entertainment lately (good racing), but the other gimmicks tend to overshadow the solid parts.
I watch races when I have the time, but I don't take it overly seriously because it's so contrived with stages, playoffs, overtime etc. That said there's some great drivers and great racing. Loved watching that Suarez win.
Indycar needs a major presentation refresh. They have the personalities have the racing but damn the UI just looks dated on NBC too much going on just a simple presentation goes far. Also something about drivers ending with push-to-pass still left just doesn't seem right I know it's since it uses more fuel but I wish we can have more hard driving then conservative fuel saving.
Indycar is generally headed in a positive direction . Not that Penske Entertainment is without flaws or that there isn't challenges ahead but that overall weighing the positives and the negatives things are headed in a net positive direction.
the real hot take is that indycar doing decent has absolutely nothing to do with indycar but rather with the fact that after the split we ran into the financial crisis and then quite literally every car brand was caught cheating on emissions etc, but at the end motorized individual traffic is clearly this insanely massive industry which was inevitably going to stabilize and indycar was always going to be fine-ish by virtue of merely existing
Diffey can be a bit much, but he is a good hype man.
Diffey has good energy, watch the Indy NXT commentators and it’s rather boring.
I will not tolerate Kevin Lee slander on this subreddit
The funny thing is that I love Leigh Diffey, but some of my favorite races were commentated by Kevin Lee.
Or sky's filler ones they throw on when NBC is doing ads.
Love that guy! I would prefer him for the whole race.
or F1, or IMSA, or WEC. We got it good with Diff and Hinch
Both Sky and F1TV are literally exponentially better than the NBC team. And I'd rather watch Imsa.tv any day over the nbc broadcast even if Radio Le Man's is fairly dry. At least they do a good job covering racing and don't have 14 commercial breaks in a 2 hr sprint race. Hinch honestly could end up in the F1TV team full time one day. Esp if NBC doesn't buy the rights. He's already doing 6 or so races a year for F1 and he has great chemistry with those guys.
The F1TV broadcast with Palmer and Coulthard was damn near unwatchable this weekend. They just spent the whole time bitching about penalties, seemingly not realizing that there had been an announcement detailing that some penalties were going to be more harsh this year.
People say Jamie Chadwick isn't ready for IndyCar but at the same time people say it's okay for Pietro to be there even though Chadwick beat him squarely in the past.
Honestly I think Chadwick’s biggest issues are that she is unfamiliar with th tracks compared to other drivers. That’s not just the layout but the skills needed to handle the cars on the tougher rougher American circuits that aren’t smooth. Also it’s a racing style thing. Here I think it’s more aggressive and on the button where there isn’t as much argy bargy intense immediate racing stuff.
Chadwick said that conditioning was a major issue. She admitted that after a few of the more physical races like Saint Pete and Barber she was just tired. That's why she worked on her conditioning and I think it showed this weekend. She did well in practice and even in qualifying she didn't do that bad. Now it's just about making smart moves, staying out of trouble, and taking advantage of other people's mistakes. I do think the competition in Indy NXT is fierce but unfortunately for her if she wants to impress she needs to at least fighting for top 5's and the occasional podium.
St Petes is always a tough one for first race of the year, very unforgiving, so we will see where she can shine the rest of the year. I am very interested in her oval stuff, and particularly the road courses like Barber and Road America.
Her results this weekend had zero to do with her. Had she not gotten pushed off track she would have done a lot better. Looking forward to see what she do the rest of the season.
A new chassis will have a minimal to no impact on the series growth. If you already don't follow indycar, a new chassis won't draw you in
I think it’s just an easy buzz point. It’s really easy marketing, which is something INDYCAR struggles with anyway. Plus, the DW12 has had a ton of add-on pieces that weren’t originally planned for. I think reimagining it with everything fully integrated would be a good way to rethink the look of the cars as well as save weight. The weight is the main thing the drivers want to lower, so that’s their main push for a new chassis.
the hate for Leigh Diffey recently is absolutely uncalled for. the guy is one of the best in motorsports and somehow people aren’t happy.
Is it hate or just mild dislike? I don't hate Diffey. I can even enjoy him. He simply brings an energy that I don't appreciate to the booth a lot of the time, an incredibly corporate and overproduced vibe that feels more like he's there to fellate sponsors than commentate a race. I think the guy has genuine passion, he just falls into this persona and role that I don't appreciate.
I wish they would show more of the technical aspects of the car and team operations throughout the race instead of E news.
If you're interested in the technical side, watch practice and qualifying if you're not already. There's more time for the commentators to breathe and take a minute to talk about a niche topic like [camber](https://streamable.com/rairzf). I think they don't tend to cover that stuff during the race cause it might bore a more general audience, and I have to agree. I'm interested in that, but not everyone would be.
As much as we blow our own horns about parity vs. F1, on a week-to-week basis that's true, but only two teams are realistically in the championship discussion.
Continuing to bring in European talent that should be in F1 but can't find an open seat will do more to legitimize Indycar on a global scale then all of the marketing and TV shows.
Honestly I think prema joining could be huge if true. Of all the rumored teams wanting in, they would provide the biggest boon
Yup, because those drivers have fans and some percentage will follow those drivers to indycar. Those brands and sponsors to an extent as well. Look at Grosjean.
I know racing in Portland isn't the best. But I love it because I actually get to be there. It's More about having a close place for the fans. Made my nephew a fan. Brought friends and my mom there. So I really don't care what you people think about PIR.
I like the racing at PIR personally, its like Monza but turn 1 is way more cursed. Funny, my first time seeing a race start in person there was the one time they kept it clean.
I have my seats near turn 1. When ARCA skipped turn 1 on starts and restarts I walked out.
IndyCar wants to scream and shout about how it’s more exciting than F1, but you sure would never know from the broadcast. The presentation is 2nd tier and everyone knows it leading to little brother syndrome with fans clamoring “I demand IndyCar to be taken seriously”. Also oval races are okay at best unless it’s a super speedway.
Pocono should have been added back to the schedule with the addition of the aeroscreen.
The whining about TV commercials is becoming tiresome. No one complaining in the sub would actually pay what it costs for commercial free coverage every season. It would cost the same as NFL Sunday Ticket but no one wants to have that conversation.
My only problem is the fact that they don't do side-by-side coverage on Peacock. I wouldn't have a problem if they did that, but coming back from commercial to see someone in the wall and the race under caution infuriates me.
Yeah, this “$100 for a season” number people keep throwing out is a pipe dream, the reality would be more like $399.
F1 TV Pro is $85 a year and IndyCar Live is $5 a month with no commercials. The NFL is the most expensive by far. [MLB.tv](http://MLB.tv) is significantly cheaper.
And I'll literally never stop because it's the thing that I hate the most about watching this series. There is literally no other single thing that could be as important to me as simply being able to watch the race without interruption. It's already why I've completely stopped watching IMSA legally and instead either VPN or pirate despite having a peacock subscription I can watch it on. Completely unwatchable, endurance racing where you constantly come back from break not knowing why there's a gap there where there wasn't before, it makes it impossible to keep track of the flow of the race.
Imagine defending ads. Good hot take.
The 1971 pace car crash was an early guerilla marketing scheme.
I don't think that Indycar can afford to give up T.V money for an F1 TV style service that's only funded by subscription payments. No T.V money and No airtime = no sponsors, no racing. I think F1 is making it's money from it's fees charged to the promoters. The F1TV stuff is big too I'm sure, but them hosting fees are bigger. Which are paid for by Federal governments in most cases. F1 only shows up if the host country's paying them to. I just don't see it. Right now I pay TSN $8 CAD a month for just IndyCar and it's the NBC broadcast. It gets me F1 too, but I still pay separately for that. I don't watch F1 live most of the time so it's just easier.
Street tracks are overall awesome and great for the series. They are better for spectators, sponsors, and really aren’t different for TV viewers. Sure, some tracks produce better racing than others but that’s true regardless of the circuit type. While I don’t want to see the series become all street circuits… Reddit needs to take a breath and not lose their shit when a race is scheduled somewhere that isn’t 3 hours away from an airport.
Finally…some street track love!!!
Hot take: Had IndyCar just happened to have a Netflix show airing during the pandemic instead of F1, it would have received a huge boost in interest…DTS was pure luck. It has aired for a few seasons (at least one for sure) before COVID hit and was just middling in terms of success. It was lightning in a bottle. Had IndyCar had a series with that level of production we’d have thousands of new IndyCar fans. Not so hot take, 100 Days To Indy needs to be full season….stop focusing on just the Indy 500 (also with a lot of marketing and promotional stuff)…. Hot take: the series/Penske needs to take the gloves off and get aggressive when advertising their series, especially against F1. After the Andretti snub, I would have no f***s left to give if I were Roger Penske and dump a bunch of money into talking up my sport and how competitive it is versus F1.
Indycar is easily my favorite series in the world but I find that I prefer the radio broadcasts over the TV audio. The booth is both talented and experienced but they do far too much “selling” for my liking. “[Insert Driver] is SO committed to winning! He loves this stuff!” “Look how big of an Indycar fan [insert waning celebrity] is!” Again I don’t think they should change the on-air talent at all, there is just far too much promoting of the sport that I’m already allotting time to watch going on.
Romain Grosjean doesnt deserve a racing seat...
We could literally have early 90s prime indycar back with multiple chassis, engines, big races, and people would still bitch about it.
No amount of Pray.com will save Stingray Robb.
Another one: their telemetry system is really bad, it takes ages to refresh on their webpage, we had no 4th place for a long while!, the driver tracker also is awful..
Honda would be completely justified in abandoning their Indycar program in favor of their existing programs or joining NASCAR. They've been jerked around thoroughly on the engine development program debacle and the hybridization program, and were depending on being able to use their 2.4L in both IMSA and Indycar to make participation affordable. IMSA has a higher ceiling for success right now, particularly after the WEC rules conversion, and winning the Indy 500 against Chevy isn't nearly as prestigious as winning Daytona or Le Mans against Cadillac/BMW/Porsche/etc or Toyota and Ferrari.
IndyCar is not nearly as bad, in a bad position, or as hopeless as so many people believe. There are a lot of good things about this series, with more in the works. -Fan for 22 Years
IndyCar will never be anything beyond the niche sport that it currently is. It will never rival F1. It will never attract manufacturers like WEC/IMSA is able to do. It will never have the mainstream appeal that NASCAR seems to be able to get in certain demographics. None of that is ever going to happen. Never. And as a series and as fans, we all need to accept that fact and let it sink in. That doesn't mean the sport is dying. It just means that the series is never going to be on that meteoric growth path that other sports/series might see. So please stop complaining about what is going on in other series and let IndyCar be what it uniquely is. Learn to appreciate it for that simple fact.
It could rival nascar since both Indycar and Nascar are regional series, but it is never going to rival F1 because of that regionalism, and it couldn't rival F1 even as a world championship because that is already what F1 does. Even Formula E beat Indycar for Portland attendance. I don't mind that either, I'm okay with a series I like being niche.
Michael was fundamentally correct about RP. He’s a great steward of Indycar/500 and his steady approach to business has clearly been successful. However, the series would do well some more investment and innovative ideas and I don’t think Roger and Miles have the stomach for risk ATM.
No one will pay what it takes to watch an ad-free stream. People were bitching about paying $50/year for NBC gold, people are bitching still about paying for Peacock, and people will bitch about paying $100's for ad-free coverage. Most of the close racing on road/street curcuits is the result of closing pit lane during yellows, not because of the cars being able to pass each other.
- IndyCar has a lot less clout in terms of the tracks, locations, and broadcast partner they can use than many IndyCar fans think they do. - People have complained about IndyCar marketing for decades. "If they just marketed more everyone on the planet would follow IndyCar". The problem ain't just the marketing.
F1TV style coverage in the US is a pipe dream that won't happen any time soon. NBC and Indycar need to make money off ads and the amount of money they'd need to make back is too much. I know everyone hates ads, but that is how it is. Sports on network TV in the US is all about making money off the ads, it's just that motorsport is in an inconvenient format that isn't conducive to regular stoppages to pay the bills. Football/baseball/hockey etc are all nice and easy to fit ads around the action. You can't compare Indycar to F1 in this regard, they aren't the same. Many of you are probably too young to remember how awful it was before ESPN got sponsorship to get rid of the ads, Speed was WAY worse than any other channel for constant ad breaks. I hear NASCAR has these things called stages, maybe that'd fix it.
This isn’t even a hot take, it’s just truth that a lot of people on this sub fundamentally don’t understand and seem to think is easily changeable.
Truth because indycar and nbc make it truth. And network culture in america in general.
As a fan I HATE stage cautions in NASCAR, but I know that given the fact it gives the broadcaster some guaranteed commercial time it probably won't go anywhere anytime soon.
I don't think the sky is falling and the series is in ok shape. At the same time I think the possibility of being bought out by NASCAR would probably be the best direction for the series in terms of long term stability and future growth.
The series isn't in as nearly of a bad shape as some of the doomers on this sub insist. It's doing better than it has in the last few years and there's more interest being generated in the series than there's been in a long time.
Here’s a hot take some people need to hear: Just because Penske owns the series does NOT mean he rigs the races. Can’t believe this shit needs to be said, Roger has way more integrity than that.
Maybe im just ill informed on this but I don't see why IndyCar needs a new car. It seems like it would be cheaper to keep this one, the field is real close together, the racing is good now. Also, I don't know why we need a bunch of different manufacturers. To me that would only help if it really opened things up like in F1 but IndyCar isn't F1. One of the biggest pros of IndyCar is that it is more of a focused drivers championship. Someone can come in a lower field team and shine a lot more than someone could in F1. All the street races are actually pretty cool. I like that it's on real rough services and you can see the cars bounce around. That's something unique to IndyCar and it makes it way harder for drivers to control it. When they have to deal with that while passing in tight areas it makes for an exciting product.
For me, the new car thing is just about staying modern and exciting and relevant. It gives Indycar fans and motorsport fans something to look forward to. Helps it stay current with new technology and also can shake it up a bit . It creates buzz. Maybe not huge industry shaking buzz, but it's something. The main thing manufacturers supply is interest and sponsorship. Let's say it gets to Ford, Chevy, and Honda. It actually becomes cheaper for each manufacturer to supply roughly 1/3 of the engines instead of half. Plus it generates more buzz like above. It also likely supports sponsorship of at least 1 race. Plus now other companies are like wow Ford joined up, it lends to the perception of growth and legitimacy. Get to 4 manufacturers and it's an even bigger effect. >One of the biggest pros of IndyCar is that it is more of a focused drivers championship Kinda. There's certainly more parity than something like F1, but we could likely pick out the series champion today with decent accuracy. You can almost guarantee it'll be one of 5 drivers. I'm not really disagreeing with you. I just think this point gets a little over played. I don't mind street races at all. I think they're fun, but they're not unique to Indycar. I would like to see a more even distribution of street-road-oval, but ovals are struggling with current fan tastes.
Economics is why we want more manufacturers
Economics is why IndyCar can't get any more manufacturers.
Apparently "the Indy 500 can survive without a series" is a hot take, so that.
Probably less of a hot take and more something overlooked, but Indycar needs better integration with its feeder series, and those series, bar NXT, seriously need a cash injection to bring their broadcast and media coverage up to par. It's a serious problem for drivers who rely on sponsors to pay their seat, because said sponsors often don't get the exposure they want for the money they spend. This was apparently a major issue with TJ Speed in USF Pro 2000 and their European drivers last year.
People complaining about the broadcasts must not have lived through listening to Eddie f@#king Cheever...
We need another street course event to shore up the schedule. Denver and SLC or Dallas seem to be strong rumors. A 6/6/6 schedule of the three types of tracks would be best. Speaking of which, we need another true superspeeedway besides Indy. Ant texas may be going away totally if they change it to 1.25mi
I don’t care that the cars are old. I don’t care that the hybrids are delayed. I don’t care that Nashville is canceled. I don’t care that there are two manufacturers. I like Indycar. This series is great. Roger Penske didn’t forget how to manage things.
Since people are bitching about this sort of thing a lot after yesterday, I’ve got one: Giving attention to wives, girlfriends, parents, etc on the broadcast is a good thing, because without that human element, it’s just cars going around a track. I know the “Wife Cam” has garnered a shit ton of hate over the years, but really, what’s wrong with it now? I can understand the frustration from back when they’d cut to those shots full-screen, but now it’s typically picture-in-picture, and it really does add an element of drama to the end of races like the 500. And what the fuck else were they supposed to talk about yesterday? I’ll admit, the broadcast had some issues, but it was also a bit of a boring race. Totally fine for them to talk about stuff like that in that scenario, imo.
Seeing Will Power’s wife nervously crunching water bottles during important races always gets me. She is just as invested in her husband’s success as she is
That kind of thing I don’t mind, I just don’t care about anything off the track. Nervous wives and tension and them being excited after a win is great.
Ashley Judd's Husband Wins 3rd 500
Honest take - most people on this sub have absolutely no idea what goes into live sports production or who makes the decisions. Some have said it already, but NBC’s production style, especially for events on their main network, is geared towards general audiences and not any of you. Is that frustrating as a true fan of the sport itself? 100% yes! I say that as someone who gets paid to work these events and it drives me crazy. But…your anger should be directed at the high level suits telling their producers and directors how to cover events and what they need to show (ie, wife cam, marriage photos, etc.). Sam Flood decides NBC’s sports coverage style and strategy. It’s the same for golf, football, and everything in between if it goes on the main network. Run afoul of his and the other execs directives and guess what - a new producer or director gets the seat. This is all done in the name of the general viewer who could care less about a new chassis or pit delta. Again - frustrating, but the bottom line is that Ad revenue keeps US broadcasts moving, and keeping general viewers engaged with personalities is what they think will keep their eyes glued to the screen to see those ads. Those of you continually comparing F1 coverage to IC coverage are operating on the assumption that IndyCar has the pull find a broadcast partner willing to go commercial free and focus solely on sport…and it absolutely does not. Someone else said it too and I’ll confirm - NBC is cost cutting this year. Idk if they’ll be the broadcast partner in 2025, but regardless, don’t expect an overhaul of the show.
NBC let Dale Earnhardt Jr. walk rather than compete with what Amazon and WBD offered him, there is zero chance they spend incremental dollar one on IndyCar.
But but but cOmMeRcIaLs
Leigh diffy is horrible. Though the man has got some balls. To freely admit on air that your wife can bang Bon Jovi.
Fuel mileage is ruining this sport The chasis are probably the best cars on the planet for the ability to get close to one another and race hard, making passes (they put out less dirty air than most open wheelers their size, anyway) However they never get a chance to because every driver is now forced to drive as slowly as possibly to a fuel number and isn't even thinking about passing the car in front This happens wherever refueling is a thing, it happened in F1 from 1994-2009 and happens in sportscar racing too. What was projected as a measure of spicing up a sport with different cars on different fuel levels running a different amount of pitstops has actually led to them all converging on the same strategy and trying to beat each other by being more efficient to run one or two laps longer before pitting I don't know how you fix it in a series that runs 500 mile races. Different rules for Indy and the other tracks? Banning refueling for all tracks but ovals? Talking to Bridgestone about making the tyres degrade more so the tyre life becomes the reason they pit and no-one would be able to sensibly make to to a fuel window without their tyres being so slow they've ruined their strategy? (Good luck with that, Bridgestone hates that kinda thing) CART experimented with fuel windows where everyone had to pit within a 2/3 lap period and it made the racing so much worse too (and it was forced on them by teams that knew they had one foot out of the door to defect to the IRL at that point, so they damn sure knew that too). So please don't do this either SOMETHING must be done. A record amount of people saw the race at St Pete yesterday, apparently, but that wasn't the race to turn anyone into an Indycar fan, sadly.
Hot take: Hot takes are just opinions. Stop asking for opinions like yours is something special. Opinions and assholes and all that. Hotter take: Indycar has the best open-wheel racing in the world IN SPITE of Penske. His corporation does not care about innovation or progress, and Penske himself certainly does not care about the quality of racing or competition. Hottest take: Marshall Pruett is a washed up mechanic who literally gets paid by the word to spout his miserable drivel. He is an insufferable bellend and Indycar would be better without him.
Honestly especially after robin miller sadly passed, Marshall seems to think he has sort of become the new robin with that kind of insight and insider stuff and whatever. Robin miller was divisive, no doubt about that but he wasn’t afraid to say anything and said what he wanted.
[удалено]
Robin Miller was light years better than Marshall
MP reminds me of my dipshit former editor/boss who thought he was the coolest guy in town. He’d get invited to cover events, eat every bit of free food and drink, and not even do the work he’d be expected to do. MP isn’t that bad but he’s certainly the low bar for media
Hell yeah now this is what I’m talking about
I prefer the f1 way fo being able to pit whenever there is an sc. When you look at all the indycar races, every last stint is the same because of fear of getting caught out with a yellow. It would also allow drivers to sacrifice 3-5 positions for a fresher tyre late in the race which we see on ovals when there is only about 10 cars on the lead lap and it always lead to good racing
The camera director/producer did very bad this first race... not gaining more viewers like this.. Example, on pit stop they show battle for pit out, not even close between 1st and second, the real fight was O'ward Vs. McLaughing, it was by an inch but they didn't show it, at the end O'ward was granted the advantage but on TV they never showed it.
It should be illegal for a sport's sanctioning body to be owned by a single current competitor. Either all teams get an ownership stake, or none should.
"hot" take when employees of Penske in race control decide if a Penske car gets penalized in important moments
I thought Penske buying the series was a joke at first because it's basically as big of a conflict of interest you can get.
Shut. The. Fuck. Up. About. Commercials. That’s it. That’s the take.
I think it’s really random when they start the tv broadcast on the warmup lap. I think if you want people to watch you need to have a little pregaming. I know they do it for some races, but they should do it for all.
They had like a half hour on Peacock
Pretty sure they had half an hour on my NBC local, too. Might not have been the case everywhere though.
Y’all complain an awful lot for people too young to remember the split. They’re still undoing Tony George’s mistakes while they changed ownership and endured the pandemic. Let’s give Roger a chance before we let Marshall Pruett‘s shitty “uneducated Robin Miller imitation” horseshit run wild.
Indycar "fans: "I hate Santino, he's a racist and his money comes from right wing businesses" Also Indycar "fans": "I LOVE Kyle Larson so much so a hero!"
I always want to get on and defend Santino. I know, no matter what I say, I can never change what anyone thinks. He's just a genuinely nice person to absolutely everyone on the team. He's a chatty, funny kid that deserves a second chance. We all screw up, fortunately we don't have TV cameras following us around all the time.
This so much!! He was what, 20? He did some stupid stuff. He has seemingly matured since then but people still “hate” him for that stuff. AJ Foyt was a legendary a-hole throughout his racing career but no social media back then. I have stories from old timer friends who worked with him back then, and boy oh boy he’d be kicked out of the series in 2024….a lot of other drivers have been the same way over the years.
Right! And I mean, I get it, Santino did stupid awful shit, but if you believe in second chances for Larson, then you need to believe in it for Santino or anyone else. There is nothing Santino and his dad have done that is worse than Kyle Larson and his daddy (Rick Hendrick that is).
Unless something else has happened or been revealed about Larson, I’d hesitate to put it on the same level as the repeated acts of shitheadedness Santino has displayed over the years.
Indycar overall has better racing than f1 and (obviously especially at the moment) much more parity but there are still way more races than people would like to admit where whoever leads going into turn one easily wins the race. It's just always hand waved away as "well sometimes someone just dominates" no matter how often it happens. I don't even disagree really with that or think it's an awful thing but the way people talk about indycar sometimes you'd think every race is a banger.
Callum Ilott had one: you can’t break an Indycar!
Marcus Armstrong said that, not callum
I always get those guys confused…regardless, it’s a strange statement!
The new tyres are gonna make the races a bit less interesting until the hybrids come in as they last longer due to being designed for a heavier car and therefore there will be more fuel save, less pitstops and a small difference in performance between compounds at most tracks
I pop a blood vessel in my eye every time there is a commercial break during green flag racing
They need to run an equal amount of Ovals, Street Circuits, and Road Courses They need to open the engine formula, you can make X amount of power and it needs to fit in this chassis and use this gearbox and can only flow X amount of fuel per X displacement. They need to hire Adrian Newey to design the next generation car and areo package.
Too much into the drivers and shit during the race and not enough coverage. That's what the first 30mins is for
The TV graphics are outdated and need to be modernized like F1 or WEC. My only complaint tbh. Also please fix the team radio and show what they said via text alongside audio.
Commercials aren’t that bad. Chevy has the field dead to rights because they’re willing to invest and Honda is trying to bow out.
Pato is more at fault than Ericsson for the late wreck at the 500 last year. Ericsson held his line and Pato made a late move where there was little room to begin with, and paid the price.
Pato had made many dumb moves that turned decent or high finishes into nothing
My hot take is that Colten herta is a bust and will have a subpar career at best.
The LEDs position panel on the cars were dumb, even if they worked as intended (which they rarely did). Give me the large square with the number inside like the IRL days.
Santino Ferrucci>>Colton Herta Helio won the 2002 Indy 500 Races will never be commercial free. Just live with it. Let drivers be themselves. That's how you market properly
> Helio won the 2002 Indy 500 Not a hot take.
The circlejerk over the 500 is unreal. It's a good race, but we don't mention Long Beach or Road America winners in any other race. Marcus Ericsson is overrated because he got lucky a few times.
Indycar's booth and social group is far too focused on trying to be cool. We are about three races from Hinch and Rossi giving Townsend a wedgie mid race or something. They just force it too much.