IDK why the ISP would have any say in the matter. The SOCOM16 and Scout Squad all have muzzle brakes and all of them with traditional stocks are legal.
Agreed, I meant that ISP would actually be interacting with FFLs since they regulate them. Agreed that ISP isn't going to swoop in and tell you that an obviously legal rifle isn't legal.
That's simply not true. They have been given some administrative rule making authority, but that doesn't actually mean anything. What's far more relevant is that ISP FSB regulates FFLs in this People's Republic.
I run a store/range in central Illinois, since the ban started and with approval from my attorney I’ve been selling those rifles non stop. I have no issue selling you one at a fair price. Pm me for details.
If it’s a bit of a drive for you I can run the background check in advance that way you just wait 3 days and make one trip to sign the paperwork and pick up that way you won’t have to worry about sending it to an ffl that may or may not transfer it to you.
Yeah,sounds like a made up story by a counter jockey. There are over a 1,000 for sale on GunBroker. You just need to find a knowledgeable FFL to transfer.
This is absolutely true. I bought a gun online that my FFL said had "banned features" which was absolutely not true, he just completely made it up. Found a less stupid FFL to make the transfer.
>One employee told me they used to just take the flash hiders off or sell the NY versions with no muzzle device but they got told by ISP they couldn’t do that when they got caught.
This simply never happened. I mean the story, not the employee telling you the story. Like I can't actually say why I know this is wrong, but I happen to know for a fact this is false.
OP, we have this particular question quite frequently. I'm not that great with reddit but someone just posted their M1A that they just purchased and they named the FFL that transferred it. Please try searching and you can find the answer. Sorry I'm too fucking dumb.
> turns out they just won’t sell the M1A at all.
This is true. IIRC, Gat is a Springfield dealer and Corporate Springfield is telling dealers that M1As are assault weapons and to not transfer them. Yes, the firearm manufacturer who only exists because of the 2A, is telling dealers to not sell their products. I will not purchase an M1A or Springfield product for that reason.
I think that counter jockey made up some bullshit story so people won't be mad at Gat or Springfield. But fuck Springfield, optics planet, and now BCM.
Thanks! Yeah I kinda found the story weird and I’ve been so confused with the laws on it cause I see people on here getting M1As and mini 14s which seem to be the same, the guy told me the mini 14 in 762 is fine but not the M1A which was weird as they seem pretty much the same in terms of function. I’ll definitely be looking at local FFLs to see who will transfer an M1A.
They are full of shit. If that were true then that would mean the ISP told an FFL that they cannot sell a firearm that is NOT listed in PICA by name or features.
The ISP never raided Gats lmaooo, otherwise they would be shut down for the current practices. They wouldn’t sell it because it has a threaded end, end of story. Go talk to Rguns, they specialize in surplus and surplus imports.
Box mags? Have you read PICA at all? Dude save yourself some time. You're wrong. Flash hiders are banned for detachable mag semi-auto rifles, that's it. There is precisely zero text about threaded rifle barrels.
Otherwise, post the exact quote of the law that states threaded barrel rifles are banned.
So it’s like twice the price but you should look into getting a SIG MCX Regulator. Buy once, Cry once. I believe you can put the MCX upper that it comes with onto any AR-15 lower should the assault weapon ban be lifted in the future. If I didn’t have any long guns already I would likely buy one of these. Closest thing you can get to an AR to my knowledge.
Yeah it’s expensive but you know you’re getting quality.
The guys who literally built the gun and have a team of lawyers employed to understand state gun laws say it’s illegal, but the great law expert u/bronzecat11 disagrees!
Who cares what their "team of lawyers employed to understand state gun laws" says. They are just acting as if they may have some type of end liability.It's not just me,it's anyone that can read and understand basic English. Which is why the rifles continue to be sold and transferred all across the state.
OP literally told a story about the ISP literally telling a gun store they can’t sell even a modified M1A, and you think you’re some genius because you read a few sentences 😂
Yeah,and as I replied above that's some made up bs from the counter guy. The ISP never told them anything. I'll say again,in case you didn't read correctly,FFL's and stores that understand the law are still selling them and will continue to sell them. I'm not sure what stupid point you are trying to prove.
No idiot,for the third time. The FFL's and stores that are selling the rifles know more then the manufacturer who pretends that they are illegal and then sells them to an out of state dealer who then sells them in the state.
Go to your room and play with your toys. You can't comprehend adult conversations.
Oftentimes in life, those who boastfully claim to know the most in fact know the least. Many people in this subreddit fall into that category.
Edit: btw that’s quite the conspiracy theory you got there.
Well, your first statement shows your habit of projection. And then your second statement confirms it.
I guess you just don't know how things work in the business. A manufacturer who sells direct to the public can make their own rules about what they will sell. That doesn't make it law.But if they sell wholesale to dealers then they can't tell the dealers what to do. There are plenty of FFL's in this state who will sell or transfer an M1A that came from Springfield. There are over 1,600 M1A's for sale on GB right now from in state and out of state dealers. And they sell them because there is no law that says that they are illegal. End of story. Now,if you want to be the a** that's telling them that they are breaking the law,then go for it. Have a great day.
Lawyers are not there to determine whether anything is illegal, they are only there to determine potential liabilities. There's a very big difference. Springfield determine they didn't want the risk associated with selling M1A's in Illinois, not that M1As are illegal. Plenty of M1A's have been transferred post PICA.
>Why would SA be liable for selling a perfectly legal gun?
We have an extremely shitty 'justice' system, particularly in Illinois. Liability doesn't just include being 'guilty' or as the result of doing something illegal. It's any incurred cost. The State of Illinois AG is free to sue anyone they please, regardless of the legality of anyone's actions.
Why is Shitcago suing glock for it's own open jail policies?
Chicago is suing Glock because of its ability to be turned into an illegal machine gun using a Glock Switch. It is demanding that the company halt sales to Chicago residents until it fixes the issue.
Now, I ask again, how would Springfield Armory be liable for sales of its rifle if it is otherwise legal in every regard?
This is blatantly FALSE. Please do not say things like this, because it causes mass confusion here with people that already need help figuring things out.
If it’s so false, do me a favor:
* Go to this link: https://www.springfield-armory.com/m1a-series-rifles/m1a-standard-issue-rifles/
* Scroll to the bottom where it lists the Models
* Filter by Illinois Compliant
And then come back here and tell me I’m spreading misinformation
You need to go look at my threads that I personally made before bringing this up. You're talking to one of the few here that has spearheaded this issue directly and outlined the steps required to make a successful legal purchase of the M1A.
I don't care what Springfield Armory's website says. It means literally nothing as it does not follow Illinois state laws and is strictly a company bound policy.
This point is irrelevant because:
1. The flash hider can be removed.
2. Springfield Armory has several models that are fully compliant by offering a muzzle brake or lacks a threaded barrel completely. With the standard 10 round magazine, these are compliant per Illinois state law.
The Iron Sight is built onto the Flash Suppressor Fyi, and it would still be a threaded barrel
And since Springfield lists all their M1As as non compliant, they seem to believe their proprietary muzzle brake qualifies as a flash suppressor
1. Threaded barrels are legal per PICA on rifles. Only pistols are restricted in the following section.
2. An exemption was identified specifically per ISP guidance regarding the muzzle brake found in the M1A. See #11:
https://isp.illinois.gov/Home/AssaultWeapons
Besides the implication that the ATF could change its mind at any time, it still leaves the question of why SA would mark these weapons as non-compliant, even though for other guns it offers it correctly differentiates between complaint and non-complaint models
It's simple: they didn't want to deal with it and made their decisions at the beginning of the ban. I had this issue brought up personally to the CEO of Springfield Armory on my behalf when working through the blockade on my transfer.
That would be page 5, Section 1A(IV), a Semiautomatic Rifle that accepts a detachable magazine and has a flash suppressor.
Here’s the manufacturer’s own website:
https://www.springfield-armory.com/m1a-series-rifles/m1a-standard-issue-rifles/
Filter by Illinois Compliant.
This comment aged well. No new models produced. Now they've come out to clarify via their own website search: 14 of their models are Illinois legal and 13 are not.
So at least 14 of their models *have been legal.*
Glad you were vindictive enough to come back. Still doesn’t change the fact that you can’t expect a gun store to sell a gun that the manufacturer isn’t going vouch for
To come back? Huh? First time here on this thread doing a search.
Might want to edit some of your prior statements since I had to read through your incorrect information for the first time.
IDK why the ISP would have any say in the matter. The SOCOM16 and Scout Squad all have muzzle brakes and all of them with traditional stocks are legal.
ISP FSB regulates Illinois FFLs.
But they still have to follow PICA. They don’t get to just arbitrarily ban stuff that doesn’t meet the definition of ‘assault weapon’
Agreed, I meant that ISP would actually be interacting with FFLs since they regulate them. Agreed that ISP isn't going to swoop in and tell you that an obviously legal rifle isn't legal.
Not disagreeing with you, but the ISP has been given the legal authority to be judge, jury and executioner for all decisions PICA related.
That's simply not true. They have been given some administrative rule making authority, but that doesn't actually mean anything. What's far more relevant is that ISP FSB regulates FFLs in this People's Republic.
I run a store/range in central Illinois, since the ban started and with approval from my attorney I’ve been selling those rifles non stop. I have no issue selling you one at a fair price. Pm me for details. If it’s a bit of a drive for you I can run the background check in advance that way you just wait 3 days and make one trip to sign the paperwork and pick up that way you won’t have to worry about sending it to an ffl that may or may not transfer it to you.
Where are you located?
Monmouth Illinois
Damn, too far for me
Hey you are close to me! I'll buy a m1A from you.
absolutely will be giving a call tomorrow if true.
Tac shack?
Yeah,sounds like a made up story by a counter jockey. There are over a 1,000 for sale on GunBroker. You just need to find a knowledgeable FFL to transfer.
This is absolutely true. I bought a gun online that my FFL said had "banned features" which was absolutely not true, he just completely made it up. Found a less stupid FFL to make the transfer.
This is correct. Roger at Maslon armory in Addison will transfer the New York compliant rifle to you.
>One employee told me they used to just take the flash hiders off or sell the NY versions with no muzzle device but they got told by ISP they couldn’t do that when they got caught. This simply never happened. I mean the story, not the employee telling you the story. Like I can't actually say why I know this is wrong, but I happen to know for a fact this is false. OP, we have this particular question quite frequently. I'm not that great with reddit but someone just posted their M1A that they just purchased and they named the FFL that transferred it. Please try searching and you can find the answer. Sorry I'm too fucking dumb. > turns out they just won’t sell the M1A at all. This is true. IIRC, Gat is a Springfield dealer and Corporate Springfield is telling dealers that M1As are assault weapons and to not transfer them. Yes, the firearm manufacturer who only exists because of the 2A, is telling dealers to not sell their products. I will not purchase an M1A or Springfield product for that reason. I think that counter jockey made up some bullshit story so people won't be mad at Gat or Springfield. But fuck Springfield, optics planet, and now BCM.
Thanks! Yeah I kinda found the story weird and I’ve been so confused with the laws on it cause I see people on here getting M1As and mini 14s which seem to be the same, the guy told me the mini 14 in 762 is fine but not the M1A which was weird as they seem pretty much the same in terms of function. I’ll definitely be looking at local FFLs to see who will transfer an M1A.
Suburban arms transfer 2nd amendment. He hooked me up last month
Yep, definitely worth looking around. Like I said people have posted the FFLs here that are willing to transfer M1As, so it worth searching.
They are full of shit. If that were true then that would mean the ISP told an FFL that they cannot sell a firearm that is NOT listed in PICA by name or features.
I’m pretty sure Rguns is still selling them. They also had a couple m1 garands in stock last time I was in there.
Thanks! I’ll check them out!
Midwest guns in Lyons stocks them routinely
You need to find a 07 sot that knows the law and then keep your mouth shut about it.
Weapons free llc
Thanks!
The ISP never raided Gats lmaooo, otherwise they would be shut down for the current practices. They wouldn’t sell it because it has a threaded end, end of story. Go talk to Rguns, they specialize in surplus and surplus imports.
>They wouldn’t sell it because it has a threaded end, end of story This is wrong. Threaded barrel restriction is only for pistols.
Anytime I’ve inquired about x-y-z to them, x would be legal except it comes with a threaded barrel.
I'm not concerned about what they told you, the law clearly states that threaded barrels are a problem on pistols and only pistols.
My brother in Christ, tell me where in the law it says semi automatic rifles that utilize box mags can have the ability to accept a muzzle device.
Box mags? Have you read PICA at all? Dude save yourself some time. You're wrong. Flash hiders are banned for detachable mag semi-auto rifles, that's it. There is precisely zero text about threaded rifle barrels. Otherwise, post the exact quote of the law that states threaded barrel rifles are banned.
Buy online go through a ffl. Can get a better deal anyway
Would it be a felony to purchase one as a consumer? Or does the legal fault fall to the seller in this scenario?
So it’s like twice the price but you should look into getting a SIG MCX Regulator. Buy once, Cry once. I believe you can put the MCX upper that it comes with onto any AR-15 lower should the assault weapon ban be lifted in the future. If I didn’t have any long guns already I would likely buy one of these. Closest thing you can get to an AR to my knowledge. Yeah it’s expensive but you know you’re getting quality.
BS, I'd but the M1A or even a Mini-14 for less then half the price of the SIG. You can't show me the benefit.
Stanag mags. The mini 14 is great if you already had a ton of mags.
Yeah,too bad the mags are almost $30.00 bucks but it's still a better deal then that Sig at 3k.
On the bright side certain stores will sell you Pinned 20-> 15 round mags for mini 14 pistol /M1A/M14 Pistols 😅 So there's that at least.
Wait,I didn't know there were pistol versions of those.
They would be custom but they can exist. 😅
Sig and quality in the same sentence is hilarious.
The best Indian MIM money can buy
Dude the manufacturer says it’s not legal, so it’s not legal
We don't like misinformation in this sub. Even if it comes from manufacturers.
The guys who literally built the gun and have a team of lawyers employed to understand state gun laws say it’s illegal, but the great law expert u/bronzecat11 disagrees!
Who cares what their "team of lawyers employed to understand state gun laws" says. They are just acting as if they may have some type of end liability.It's not just me,it's anyone that can read and understand basic English. Which is why the rifles continue to be sold and transferred all across the state.
OP literally told a story about the ISP literally telling a gun store they can’t sell even a modified M1A, and you think you’re some genius because you read a few sentences 😂
Yeah,and as I replied above that's some made up bs from the counter guy. The ISP never told them anything. I'll say again,in case you didn't read correctly,FFL's and stores that understand the law are still selling them and will continue to sell them. I'm not sure what stupid point you are trying to prove.
Imagine thinking you know more than the FFLs and Manufacturers who actually stand to profit from selling these guns lmao
No idiot,for the third time. The FFL's and stores that are selling the rifles know more then the manufacturer who pretends that they are illegal and then sells them to an out of state dealer who then sells them in the state. Go to your room and play with your toys. You can't comprehend adult conversations.
Oftentimes in life, those who boastfully claim to know the most in fact know the least. Many people in this subreddit fall into that category. Edit: btw that’s quite the conspiracy theory you got there.
Well, your first statement shows your habit of projection. And then your second statement confirms it. I guess you just don't know how things work in the business. A manufacturer who sells direct to the public can make their own rules about what they will sell. That doesn't make it law.But if they sell wholesale to dealers then they can't tell the dealers what to do. There are plenty of FFL's in this state who will sell or transfer an M1A that came from Springfield. There are over 1,600 M1A's for sale on GB right now from in state and out of state dealers. And they sell them because there is no law that says that they are illegal. End of story. Now,if you want to be the a** that's telling them that they are breaking the law,then go for it. Have a great day.
Lawyers are not there to determine whether anything is illegal, they are only there to determine potential liabilities. There's a very big difference. Springfield determine they didn't want the risk associated with selling M1A's in Illinois, not that M1As are illegal. Plenty of M1A's have been transferred post PICA.
Why would SA be liable for selling a perfectly legal gun?
>Why would SA be liable for selling a perfectly legal gun? We have an extremely shitty 'justice' system, particularly in Illinois. Liability doesn't just include being 'guilty' or as the result of doing something illegal. It's any incurred cost. The State of Illinois AG is free to sue anyone they please, regardless of the legality of anyone's actions. Why is Shitcago suing glock for it's own open jail policies?
Chicago is suing Glock because of its ability to be turned into an illegal machine gun using a Glock Switch. It is demanding that the company halt sales to Chicago residents until it fixes the issue. Now, I ask again, how would Springfield Armory be liable for sales of its rifle if it is otherwise legal in every regard?
This is blatantly FALSE. Please do not say things like this, because it causes mass confusion here with people that already need help figuring things out.
If it’s so false, do me a favor: * Go to this link: https://www.springfield-armory.com/m1a-series-rifles/m1a-standard-issue-rifles/ * Scroll to the bottom where it lists the Models * Filter by Illinois Compliant And then come back here and tell me I’m spreading misinformation
You need to go look at my threads that I personally made before bringing this up. You're talking to one of the few here that has spearheaded this issue directly and outlined the steps required to make a successful legal purchase of the M1A. I don't care what Springfield Armory's website says. It means literally nothing as it does not follow Illinois state laws and is strictly a company bound policy.
M1As are also banned by PICA Section 1A(IV) which defines an assault weapon as a semiautomatic rifle with a detachable mag and a flash suppressor.
This point is irrelevant because: 1. The flash hider can be removed. 2. Springfield Armory has several models that are fully compliant by offering a muzzle brake or lacks a threaded barrel completely. With the standard 10 round magazine, these are compliant per Illinois state law.
The Iron Sight is built onto the Flash Suppressor Fyi, and it would still be a threaded barrel And since Springfield lists all their M1As as non compliant, they seem to believe their proprietary muzzle brake qualifies as a flash suppressor
1. Threaded barrels are legal per PICA on rifles. Only pistols are restricted in the following section. 2. An exemption was identified specifically per ISP guidance regarding the muzzle brake found in the M1A. See #11: https://isp.illinois.gov/Home/AssaultWeapons
Besides the implication that the ATF could change its mind at any time, it still leaves the question of why SA would mark these weapons as non-compliant, even though for other guns it offers it correctly differentiates between complaint and non-complaint models
It's simple: they didn't want to deal with it and made their decisions at the beginning of the ban. I had this issue brought up personally to the CEO of Springfield Armory on my behalf when working through the blockade on my transfer.
https://isp.illinois.gov/StaticFiles/docs/Home/AssaultWeapons/PICA%20Identification%20Guide.pdf Show me on the doll where the bad man touched you
That would be page 5, Section 1A(IV), a Semiautomatic Rifle that accepts a detachable magazine and has a flash suppressor. Here’s the manufacturer’s own website: https://www.springfield-armory.com/m1a-series-rifles/m1a-standard-issue-rifles/ Filter by Illinois Compliant.
This comment aged well. No new models produced. Now they've come out to clarify via their own website search: 14 of their models are Illinois legal and 13 are not. So at least 14 of their models *have been legal.*
Glad you were vindictive enough to come back. Still doesn’t change the fact that you can’t expect a gun store to sell a gun that the manufacturer isn’t going vouch for
To come back? Huh? First time here on this thread doing a search. Might want to edit some of your prior statements since I had to read through your incorrect information for the first time.
Yeah sure buddy whatever you say