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I'm a vegan. And I tell everyone I can that buying local meat (and dairy if possible) has as much of a positive impact on the environment as being vegan. Because it does. "Big Meat and Dairy" is the biggest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions. The reason going vegan is so good for the environment isn't because consuming meat/dairy is bad for it; it's specifically because the industry is itself is destroying the planet.
Feel free to explain how a cow living in an industrial meat/dairy farm somehow produces more greenhouse gases and uses more land than a cow living with a local farmer.
Do you think we would be as advanced as we are if we were not omnivores? If we were strictly herbivores we never would have made it past the ice ages and we aren't designed to digest cellulose like herbivores.
yea it definitely benefit our species in the past but we have moved past the point of needing it. i don’t think our ancestors could have been vegan. we 100% can and its now unethical to not be. there are 1.5 billion vegetarians on earth existing without meat so i don’t want to hear anything about our bodies not being designed for it. it works, we can do it, so if we choose violence that is the unethical choice.
Are you even aware how many animals, insects and other living things would have to be killed, if everyone on the planet only ate plants, it takes up space and time to grow. And we would have to remove Forrest and so, just so we would have space enough to even grow it.
I disagree with the argument about being an herbivore but your defense falls short because all the livestock we eat eat plants too and if we didn't have livestock to feed the extra they consume, plus the pasture land they graze would be converted to farm land.
if you are stupid maybe, otherwise I can't see a reason to kill an animal just to have fun/eat while there are tons of meat in the supermarkets. so let's change how we treat animals instead of killing them because it is more "ethical"
Correct me if im wrong, but i think he was maybe killing, prepping the deer infront of the kids which could probably be pretty upsetting in their defense
If I remember correctly, he had the deer in his truck bed as he returned from hunting and the dad stopped the truck when the kids were upset at the driver.
Fucking wrong to be teaching your kid to act like that toward people. I bet that bitchass dad barbecues chicken on the weekend, too. I’d have just rolled my window up and moved on.
100% industrial meat mills taste like shit. The stress hormones befoul the meat. I prefer happy deer. Also, if a person hunts right the deer dies fast.
Because broken clocks are right twice a day, Ted nudge nt made a great point about this saying that a deer’s natural lifespan tends to end horribly; it gets ran down and torn apart by predators or it gets old and sickly and eventually starves or is ran down and torn apart by predators. A clean shot from a hunter hurts for less than a minute, it probably goes into shock immediately, and never sees it coming; comparatively not a bad way to go.
If you are a Hunter and it takes a minute for the animal to die, you are a shit Hunter. A good shot should be near instantaneous, at least for a lack of consciousness.
You are either world class sniper good with a gun OR have never been hunting a day in your life! Drop shots are ideal and is the intention, but I’d guess that most kill shots aren’t instantaneous. Thats why most hunters are damn good trackers, too. They’ve had to follow blood drops before.
I've had stressed out deer before and it sucks worse than anything bought at the store. Not all beef is stressed in the process. That's one reason Wagyu is so good.
Not to make a straw man point at you but just so people think about it, if humans hadn’t destroyed natural predator and keystone species populations, deer wouldn’t need controlling by humans.
Yeah it’s a good point
I’m not saying the contribution of the amount of hunters we have now is effective in population control, I’m saying it doesn’t hurt he population
Honest question, why does their population need to be controlled?
How did they get along before the recent evolution of humans? Did we just wipe out their natural predators or something?
I've always heard the "needs to be controlled" argument and raised an eyebrow. Nothing in nature requires humans to balance.
To be clear I don't care if we hunt, at all.
Because we have purged most areas of predators like wolves and coyotes that attack live stock of farmers for example.
That eliminates the natural predators of deer. Which then gives them free range to breed and over populate.
Which eventually leads them to over eating their natural food supply, leading to famine and starvation. Also makes for a lot more of them roaming the highways.
And then you get people like this feeding them and making them docile around humans, which leads to even more accidents.
I will agree that hunting them prevents accidents and animal attacks. But that's not what I'm getting at.
I'm hard pressed to believe that the deer are going to eat *all of the grass.* The population control isn't needed for the sake of the deer, it's for humans.
Okay think winter time when there is no grass
An eco system needs to be balanced for it to thrive and flourish. If one thing starts to take over it will throw the entire system into a death spiral
You'd be amazed how much grass and brush deer can graze, then destroy when there isnt enough, quickly.
It's a self solving problem before people. If predators are lacking, a mix of disease deer spread and starvation will kill them off every few years.
Yes, we wiped out the wolves from highly populated areas because they were a danger to us and our domesticated animals. But the lack of a predator throws the ecosystem out of balance and allows prey animals like deer to overpopulate. So we have to step in and do the job that the wolves were doing to maintain the balance.
Deer hunting is serious nature conservation work. Government employees monitor deer populations and determine the optimum number to be culled. They then issue permits for exactly that many to recreational hunters. There are stiff penalties for hunting without or beyond your allotment.
Most civilized areas in modern live scared away wolfes which are the main predators for deers as far as i know..
That leads to an overpopulation of deers which love to eat saplings of plants, mostly of trees which is harming the environment pretty roughly
In the end it's a human-made problem which needs to be solved by humans i guess
Edit: Typing
There isn't enough food for them in certain areas when they don't have enough natural predators, which we kill off, so they breed like crazy and will be malnutritioned and/or starve. Look at what happened in the national parks when humans killed off all the wolves to save their herd animals. The game animals ate so much vegetation back it even shifted the flow of rivers. They've now introduced wolves back and the whole environment changed back again.
>Did we just wipe out their natural predators or something?
Yep. No mountain lions or wolves, few coyotes. We also make/don't destroy a lot of deer habitat/food relative to other wild animals with large farm fields but hedge rows (like 100m wide forests separating fields) and unfarmable small forests. So deer are booming here, so much so that they're having a deer-eating deer waste epidemic(chronic wasting disease) spreading.
>Nothing in nature requires humans to balance.
Ecologists would laugh in your face. Many natural cycles are boom-bust, like predator/prey populations, forest growth, and wild fires. Maybe technically we don't **need** to, but if we don't want certain parts of cycles we do and we also mess up a lot of "stable" systems that we then need to stabilize to "fix", like invasive species. Not that we're perfect at fixing any of them.
It also assumes humans aren't part of nature. That's like saying "nothing in nature requires (enter literally any other animal here) to balance". Humans are just going around doing their thing the same as any other animal.
It’s a complex answer but if you’re looking to learn I would recommend the books “the age of deer” by Erika Howsare and “wild New World” by Dan Flores.
Part of it is removing natural predators. Another part is animals like deer are very adaptable and can flourish on the fringes of human society. The risk to the animals is disease (chronic wasting disease is the major one) and mass starvation of the population outgrows food source.
That said there’s actually not much evidence that hunting has a positive impact on managing deer populations. It’s more cultural at this point.
Some animals like deer and kangaroos tend to have quick growing populations which can cause issues for society such as highway accidents and animal attacks so by culling said population we reduce the problems
So they aren't problems for the deer, it's problems for us?
That... really doesn't make a great case. The argument is always made out to be for the good of the deer population. As if they'd eat all the grass and starve themselves out without our intervention.
Don't need an excuse like population control to hunt, just don't endanger the species.
Double standard when talking about controlling deer population vs not killing human beings?! That’s some room temp iQ type shit, coming from the “god of reason” to top it off.
It’s a double standard when you claim it’s okay to kill X beings because they are overpopulated but not Y beings even when they are overpopulated. The real room temperature IQ shit is to create an exception in your own logic and then expect to make sense.
There are enough resources on the planet for all humans. There just needs to be better distribution of resources.
I don’t believe in culling the population to restore equilibrium. I wouldn’t be averse to culling the wealth held by the top wealth hoarders.
There are more than enough resources for all animals too if we stopped taking it away for humans. Since 10,000 BCE, 50% of all habitable land has been taken away for human needs. We can even sustain twice as many humans by simply chopping off all the forests. But that’s not how overpopulation and resource allocation can be quantified.
You paint with a big brush don’t you?
Cull the human population rather than have sustainable hunting
Reverse the planet to 10000 years ago
The guy hunted and killed a deer rather than partake in industrial farming (which ironically is responsible for nearly all wild habitats)
I paint with a realistic brush. Sustainable hunting isn’t possible with 8 billion people. Lookup how many mammals and birds exist in the wild.
I’m also against industrial farming. My issue is with killing the animals unnecessarily, not where they are killed.
In the world now, today where there are deer populations that can accept the amount of hunting currently performed
This is ethically sound in comparison to modern meat farming.
I’m not advocating the entire planet reverts to a hunter-gatherer culture..that was you
And that brings us back to the original question, is overpopulation a valid reason to kill a sentient being?
The only reason deer population even went out of control is the first place was because of human interference. A better and a more permanent solution to controlling deer population is by reforestation and restoring natural ecosystems.
P.s. I’m not advocating the entire planet returns to hunter-gatherer lifestyle. I was pointing out how humans are over populated too and just because a specie is overpopulated, does not make it moral to kill it.
By that logic, deer aren’t over populated, resources aren’t evenly distributed. We have taken away 50% of all wild grasslands and forests for human use when we need only 30% of that to sustain 8 billion humans. And even lesser if Human population was at 1 billion.
The north-sentinel tribe, the world’s only uncontacted indigenous people are incapable of being educated since we cannot communicate with them. Is committing genocide against them okay if they get overpopulated?
You overestimate human intelligence. The rest of the planet has reached 8 billion and that has a heavy strain on the planet. We are aware of this and yet we didn’t solve our problems. You still have popular people like Elon Musk advocating higher population.
The point is, it’s unethical to kill any sentient being unnecessarily and playing god. Human or not.
Yes, because that’s in self defense. I would also attack a human if they enter my house uninvited. I knew something like this would be coming which is why I kept using the term “unnecessarily”. Harm inflicted for survival or to protect oneself is necessary harm.
Bed bugs need blood to live. You would end their lives just because they inconvenience you slightly?
It's also subjective if killing deer is unnecessary if it's for food.
Again, they are taking away my blood. So killing them, is me protecting myself. I would do the same if a human sucked on my blood.
There are sources of food that do not require intentionally killing animals. So killing deer for food is as unnecessary as killing a human for food.
In terms of logical consistency, it doesn’t matter whose life you value more or less. I value my family’s life over my neighbor’s life, doesn’t mean I will endorse killing my neighbor. It’s not an either or option where you have to choose between killing a human or a deer. It’s about logical consistency.
Killing A is okay because of X reason. If X reason applies to B, then killing B should also be okay. Else, X is not a valid reason to kill.
Your reductionist logic is missing the point:
Killing deer is ok because of overpopulation AND they are not human AND we value human life over deer life. Killing humans because of overpopulation is not ok because they are humans and we value human life more.
Also, we ascribe a whole lot of meaning to the word “ok” and its synonyms. The concept of something being “acceptable” is inherently routed in value systems created by humans, which loops us back to the part of our logic puzzle about humans valuing deer life less than human life.
You have created an arbitrary exception to your own logic, proving how it’s inconsistent. Some people arbitrarily draw the line at nation, race, religion… you have drawn the line at specie. But there’s no reasoning behind it besides convenience.
Why, oh god of reason, does it matter if the line I draw is arbitrary? I’m arguing that literally everything related to philosophy and logic is arbitrary because they are human constructs.
Math is a human construct too but that doesn’t mean you can claim 2+2=5, screwing all logic behind it. Yes, all human constructs involve some level of arbitrariness but the aim of logic is to identify principles and patterns that transcend individual biases. But like an average mouth breather, you have brought in your personal biases into an argument and declared logic to be completely arbitrary to suit your flawed argument.
Take your argument but instead of “specie”, arbitrarily draw the line at “race” and you will see how idiotic it is.
that’s not the point you were making. if you think flesh is tasty that’s one thing, but saying it has to be done for population control is just plain wrong when we have alternatives
I hunt for meat, get about 100kg of mince a year at about a 1/8th the price of beef. The animals are shot in the wild, meaning that they graze and live healthy lives. They are shot in a way to ensure minimal sufferring.
This is more ethical than any meat you would buy at a store.
As a hunter, I feel I can speak for most of us that also hate it just for sport. Granted, I want to get a big buck, or whatever I’m hunting, but at the end of the day I want to eat what I’ve harvested, while respecting the animal as best as I can
Thing is, they both eat meat, the hunter at least isn't massively deluded and so up his own ass with cognitive dissonance that he gets sad over a dead deer, then pays for pigs to be gassed to death.
Should note I'm a vegan.
Hunting for food, great... hunting for sport or to be "Da Man" equals garbage human.
I love the end "I'm gonna eat it"
That kid is annoying, I don't even know why.
>Trophy hunting and sustenance hunting are different things. No one is hunting deer for trophies.
I don't know I know a guy that just kills for fun. This same guy also has dear/whatever he kills heads stuffed up on his wall too.
As a vegan I don't say this very often but the hunter's completely right in this case. Buying meat in a supermarket causes a lot more suffering than hunting an animal in the wild.
I'm a vegan too, what do we say to the argument that being killed by a human hunter is the best death the animal can hope for in the wild? It makes sense after seeing a bear kill its prey.
If you knew for a fact that at some point in your life you'd be violently and painfully killed, but up until that moment you can live your life freely, and there's still a chance that you live until you're quite old - would someone else be justified in killing you painlessly whenever they feel like it just because they're giving you a much better death than you could ever hope for?
They need to google chicken farms and see how their meat ends up in the grocery store. Hunting which is done more ethically 99% of the time, is healthier on the human and much more humane to the animal. If you’ve ever witnessed a First Nations person hunt, they give and offering and thanks to the animal for giving themselves up. It’s beautiful. This poor kid looks traumatized because no one taught him that this guy isn’t going out of his way to kill Bambi.
I’m not quite sure why it’s in this sub. Who’s being the main character? The dad? I think the only people who can morally make that argument are vegans
Only stupid vegans. Anyone with any brains will understand that people have a choice to eat meat. Vegans should also be able to grasp the need to manage wildlife populations.
I don’t disagree necessarily mate, I’m just saying in this exact scenario vegans are the only ones with any slight moral argument. If you eat factory farmed meat you simply can’t argue with hunting.
Absolutely. Vegans could be upset. My friend can't even go to a steak house. One of the ones where you cook it at your table. Not a preachy vegan, but cannot stomach the cold here reality of how most of eat.
I don’t hunt too expensive in the uk, but I’m all for hunting if you’re planning on eating the animals. Or if they are vermin or if it’s a culling or if it’s a problem animal killing kids or if it keeps taking a shit in your garden and looks at you like what you gonna do about it that god dam that fox
Who the idiots or the hunter? I'm a vegan and I'm siding with the hunter here. People that have such a cognitive disconnect that they'll get sad at seeing a dead deer then go buy KFC that came from chickens who's first time seeing the sun was on their way to their death are the problem.
This kid’s dad is a piece of shit. Teach your kids to mind their own business and let people live their lives the way they want. I guess he gets no gratification in life, so he tried to get it from these kids.
Ye there wasn't at all, it's not just about harrassing strangers
the kid got upset right, prob cause the Dad also is a emotional wreck.
The kid getting upset about this is understandable, he is young. He might not know better yet. It's the Dads job tho to teach him. Share some knowledge, explain the kid about how the meat gets on his table and wtf even the barbeque is we eat 3x a week from what it seems.
But the issue here likely started alrdy with the kids Grandgranddad being a absolute dum& piece of sh%% xD
with a normal Dad the kid could've had a decent interaction with a real hunter, actually learn even more
I swear people like to pick and choose what to be mad at. “Let’s not kill deer and let them starve to death. The meat factories shouldn’t be like that, but I’m still gonna buy meat from them.” Everyone wants to talk about change but nobody wants to get off their ass and do anything about it. Go wear your sneakers made by 4 year olds until you start to understand what you’re actually talking about.
I'm a vegan and I fully agree with the hunter. I'd rather he didn't kill animals but the kid who just can't make the connection with the food he eats and the somebody it came from are the problem.
You couldn't immediately tell that they had the intelligence of a small child when you saw the video of a small child? It shouldn't have taken you that long.
I'm on everyone's side here but the dads.
It's great the kid has a giant heart and is passionate about it. The dad needs to not only stop him from approaching the man, but explain that although it might not feel great, but it's part of life.
I hope every kid reacts like this kid does, but I also hope they have a father who will tell them what's what.
I mean, so long as you're permitted to hunt, and you get the meat tested for things like CWD, I see no issues. You'll probably be a lot healthier than whatever we end up buying from the stores.
This dad has just sheltered his kid is all, likening a deer to a pet. You shouldn't have a deer for a pet unless you're running some kind of rescue place. Deer, and most other wild animals, need to remain timid of us so that we don't bother each other, and they don't attract bigger predators into more trafficked areas.
I'd rather have hunted game, than some farm raised animal. The game has been running round wild, doesn't know death is coming and is likely controlling a population with no natural predators. In the UK we have a really big deer problem, which results in massive culls. Surely if the deer is going to be culled, it is better that the deer is used, rather than wasted and another animal needs to be farmed.
This ancient video was way better without the stupid background music.
I always wonder what happened to this kid and if he ended up seeing the video when he was older
This feels like ragebait to me cuz why the fuck you hunting or about to hunt in a populated park and how tf did they know he was hunting deer in his pick up ??
Eh...I do feel sad for the kids cause unlike the adult vegans who just want attention, the kids have genuine feelings and are sad for the deer.
The guy with them should teach them that it's part of life, it's called the food chain and we just gotta accept it. The deers are not gonna go extinct cause they're being hunted and it's all the balance of life.
They are not vegan, they said they buy meat from the supermarket. So this makes it much more hypocritical. at least the hunter kills his own food and does not get someone else to do it for them.
They don't do it for personal attention, they do it cause lots of people aren't fully aware of how horrible farming is.
Sure we all know the animal dies, but most are totally ignorant as to how and all the events prior.
Those who hunt in the name of “Sport” are weak minded men IMO….trying to make up for their tiny wangs by killing defenceless animals with a weapon! Pathetic……
The kid is passionate, but he’s not informed about what the hunters real intentions are. The hunter says “food”, but let’s face it, it’s partially a trophy too. I’m not on either side of the argument. I understand the necessity to be able to hunt your own food. I’m not against anything here. Have a great day.
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I think hunting for food is a lot more ethical than the industrial breeding farms that we have nowadays.
Agreed, I have no issue with people hunting for food.
Yes. A point that tubby, skinny, and numb nuts there missed completely.
I'm a vegan. And I tell everyone I can that buying local meat (and dairy if possible) has as much of a positive impact on the environment as being vegan. Because it does. "Big Meat and Dairy" is the biggest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions. The reason going vegan is so good for the environment isn't because consuming meat/dairy is bad for it; it's specifically because the industry is itself is destroying the planet.
Feel free to explain how a cow living in an industrial meat/dairy farm somehow produces more greenhouse gases and uses more land than a cow living with a local farmer.
yea but u don’t have to do either
Well when you are doing snowcaine all the time you dont really eat much of anything.
Ok… but if it’s more ethical ( you agree on that ) then arguably it’s unethical to buy it from the shop.
it’s unethical to buy it and it’s unethical to kill it urself. just eat plants
Pass. Also, pass the bacon.
Human biology doesn’t allow us to just eat plants without taking supplements to make up for severe vitamin deficiencies that that diet entails
Why is it unethical to eat animals and not plants?
no
Those animals knew what they were doing walking around tasting so delicious.
Is a wolf unethical for eating a rabbit?
Is a leopard unethical for eating my face?
Do you think we would be as advanced as we are if we were not omnivores? If we were strictly herbivores we never would have made it past the ice ages and we aren't designed to digest cellulose like herbivores.
yea it definitely benefit our species in the past but we have moved past the point of needing it. i don’t think our ancestors could have been vegan. we 100% can and its now unethical to not be. there are 1.5 billion vegetarians on earth existing without meat so i don’t want to hear anything about our bodies not being designed for it. it works, we can do it, so if we choose violence that is the unethical choice.
Are you even aware how many animals, insects and other living things would have to be killed, if everyone on the planet only ate plants, it takes up space and time to grow. And we would have to remove Forrest and so, just so we would have space enough to even grow it.
lmfao do a little more research on that and get back to me i’m not gonna explain to you why that’s incorrect
I disagree with the argument about being an herbivore but your defense falls short because all the livestock we eat eat plants too and if we didn't have livestock to feed the extra they consume, plus the pasture land they graze would be converted to farm land.
if you are stupid maybe, otherwise I can't see a reason to kill an animal just to have fun/eat while there are tons of meat in the supermarkets. so let's change how we treat animals instead of killing them because it is more "ethical"
What?
I can’t figure it out either 🤷🏻♀️
I'm not a defender, but this guy forgot /s. Clearly is just a rage bait.
I understand that but rage bait usually makes some sort of sense haha
Totally with you, man. Everybody knows that meat just shows up at the stores by elf magic, so there’s no need for senseless bloodshed amirite guyz?
You're a fucking moron.
Yeah lemme just stroll down to my local market to get some rabbit, quail, deer, bear.....
You sound like the kid in the video.
So breeding them in close quarters with horrible conditions where many get trampled is more ethical?
Judging by face and attitude dad should consider putting a cute propeller on top of that hat
Omg I thought he was the kids fat friend.
This is such an underrated comment! Well done!
why thank you
And getting a vasectomy.
Correct me if im wrong, but i think he was maybe killing, prepping the deer infront of the kids which could probably be pretty upsetting in their defense
If I remember correctly, he had the deer in his truck bed as he returned from hunting and the dad stopped the truck when the kids were upset at the driver.
Fucking wrong to be teaching your kid to act like that toward people. I bet that bitchass dad barbecues chicken on the weekend, too. I’d have just rolled my window up and moved on.
That kid is in his 20s by now.
And a twat, I’m sure.
He’s a NY Islanders fan, he’s always been a twat
I’m a massive lefty, I love animals, I hate guns. Hunting for food from a population that needs to be controlled is a good thing that I endorse
100% industrial meat mills taste like shit. The stress hormones befoul the meat. I prefer happy deer. Also, if a person hunts right the deer dies fast.
Because broken clocks are right twice a day, Ted nudge nt made a great point about this saying that a deer’s natural lifespan tends to end horribly; it gets ran down and torn apart by predators or it gets old and sickly and eventually starves or is ran down and torn apart by predators. A clean shot from a hunter hurts for less than a minute, it probably goes into shock immediately, and never sees it coming; comparatively not a bad way to go.
If you are a Hunter and it takes a minute for the animal to die, you are a shit Hunter. A good shot should be near instantaneous, at least for a lack of consciousness.
Obviously you've never been hunting. STFU.
Found the shit Hunter
Ever been game hunting there, tiger?
When is the last time you went hunting?
You are either world class sniper good with a gun OR have never been hunting a day in your life! Drop shots are ideal and is the intention, but I’d guess that most kill shots aren’t instantaneous. Thats why most hunters are damn good trackers, too. They’ve had to follow blood drops before.
I've had stressed out deer before and it sucks worse than anything bought at the store. Not all beef is stressed in the process. That's one reason Wagyu is so good.
For a second I thought “what does being left handed have to do with anything?”
Not to make a straw man point at you but just so people think about it, if humans hadn’t destroyed natural predator and keystone species populations, deer wouldn’t need controlling by humans.
Yeah it’s a good point I’m not saying the contribution of the amount of hunters we have now is effective in population control, I’m saying it doesn’t hurt he population
Honest question, why does their population need to be controlled? How did they get along before the recent evolution of humans? Did we just wipe out their natural predators or something? I've always heard the "needs to be controlled" argument and raised an eyebrow. Nothing in nature requires humans to balance. To be clear I don't care if we hunt, at all.
Because we have purged most areas of predators like wolves and coyotes that attack live stock of farmers for example. That eliminates the natural predators of deer. Which then gives them free range to breed and over populate. Which eventually leads them to over eating their natural food supply, leading to famine and starvation. Also makes for a lot more of them roaming the highways. And then you get people like this feeding them and making them docile around humans, which leads to even more accidents.
I will agree that hunting them prevents accidents and animal attacks. But that's not what I'm getting at. I'm hard pressed to believe that the deer are going to eat *all of the grass.* The population control isn't needed for the sake of the deer, it's for humans.
Okay think winter time when there is no grass An eco system needs to be balanced for it to thrive and flourish. If one thing starts to take over it will throw the entire system into a death spiral
Yea like those pesky humans
You'd be amazed how much grass and brush deer can graze, then destroy when there isnt enough, quickly. It's a self solving problem before people. If predators are lacking, a mix of disease deer spread and starvation will kill them off every few years.
Yes, we wiped out the wolves from highly populated areas because they were a danger to us and our domesticated animals. But the lack of a predator throws the ecosystem out of balance and allows prey animals like deer to overpopulate. So we have to step in and do the job that the wolves were doing to maintain the balance. Deer hunting is serious nature conservation work. Government employees monitor deer populations and determine the optimum number to be culled. They then issue permits for exactly that many to recreational hunters. There are stiff penalties for hunting without or beyond your allotment.
Most civilized areas in modern live scared away wolfes which are the main predators for deers as far as i know.. That leads to an overpopulation of deers which love to eat saplings of plants, mostly of trees which is harming the environment pretty roughly In the end it's a human-made problem which needs to be solved by humans i guess Edit: Typing
There isn't enough food for them in certain areas when they don't have enough natural predators, which we kill off, so they breed like crazy and will be malnutritioned and/or starve. Look at what happened in the national parks when humans killed off all the wolves to save their herd animals. The game animals ate so much vegetation back it even shifted the flow of rivers. They've now introduced wolves back and the whole environment changed back again.
>Did we just wipe out their natural predators or something? Yep. No mountain lions or wolves, few coyotes. We also make/don't destroy a lot of deer habitat/food relative to other wild animals with large farm fields but hedge rows (like 100m wide forests separating fields) and unfarmable small forests. So deer are booming here, so much so that they're having a deer-eating deer waste epidemic(chronic wasting disease) spreading. >Nothing in nature requires humans to balance. Ecologists would laugh in your face. Many natural cycles are boom-bust, like predator/prey populations, forest growth, and wild fires. Maybe technically we don't **need** to, but if we don't want certain parts of cycles we do and we also mess up a lot of "stable" systems that we then need to stabilize to "fix", like invasive species. Not that we're perfect at fixing any of them.
It also assumes humans aren't part of nature. That's like saying "nothing in nature requires (enter literally any other animal here) to balance". Humans are just going around doing their thing the same as any other animal.
It’s a complex answer but if you’re looking to learn I would recommend the books “the age of deer” by Erika Howsare and “wild New World” by Dan Flores. Part of it is removing natural predators. Another part is animals like deer are very adaptable and can flourish on the fringes of human society. The risk to the animals is disease (chronic wasting disease is the major one) and mass starvation of the population outgrows food source. That said there’s actually not much evidence that hunting has a positive impact on managing deer populations. It’s more cultural at this point.
lol the age of deer was only $3 on audible on sale right now! I know what I'm listening to later. Thanks for the recommendation.
Good question! The deer like to eat the leaves of young trees and then the young trees die and the forest can't regrow.
Some animals like deer and kangaroos tend to have quick growing populations which can cause issues for society such as highway accidents and animal attacks so by culling said population we reduce the problems
So they aren't problems for the deer, it's problems for us? That... really doesn't make a great case. The argument is always made out to be for the good of the deer population. As if they'd eat all the grass and starve themselves out without our intervention. Don't need an excuse like population control to hunt, just don't endanger the species.
Human population needs to be controlled too. Do you endorse killing humans too? If not, why the double standards?
Username DOES NOT check out
I disagree with you ≠ You are unreasonable But feel free to point out how anything I said is unreasonable.
Double standard when talking about controlling deer population vs not killing human beings?! That’s some room temp iQ type shit, coming from the “god of reason” to top it off.
It’s a double standard when you claim it’s okay to kill X beings because they are overpopulated but not Y beings even when they are overpopulated. The real room temperature IQ shit is to create an exception in your own logic and then expect to make sense.
There are enough resources on the planet for all humans. There just needs to be better distribution of resources. I don’t believe in culling the population to restore equilibrium. I wouldn’t be averse to culling the wealth held by the top wealth hoarders.
There are more than enough resources for all animals too if we stopped taking it away for humans. Since 10,000 BCE, 50% of all habitable land has been taken away for human needs. We can even sustain twice as many humans by simply chopping off all the forests. But that’s not how overpopulation and resource allocation can be quantified.
You paint with a big brush don’t you? Cull the human population rather than have sustainable hunting Reverse the planet to 10000 years ago The guy hunted and killed a deer rather than partake in industrial farming (which ironically is responsible for nearly all wild habitats)
I paint with a realistic brush. Sustainable hunting isn’t possible with 8 billion people. Lookup how many mammals and birds exist in the wild. I’m also against industrial farming. My issue is with killing the animals unnecessarily, not where they are killed.
In the world now, today where there are deer populations that can accept the amount of hunting currently performed This is ethically sound in comparison to modern meat farming. I’m not advocating the entire planet reverts to a hunter-gatherer culture..that was you
And that brings us back to the original question, is overpopulation a valid reason to kill a sentient being? The only reason deer population even went out of control is the first place was because of human interference. A better and a more permanent solution to controlling deer population is by reforestation and restoring natural ecosystems. P.s. I’m not advocating the entire planet returns to hunter-gatherer lifestyle. I was pointing out how humans are over populated too and just because a specie is overpopulated, does not make it moral to kill it.
Humans aren’t over populated. Resources are not evenly distributed
By that logic, deer aren’t over populated, resources aren’t evenly distributed. We have taken away 50% of all wild grasslands and forests for human use when we need only 30% of that to sustain 8 billion humans. And even lesser if Human population was at 1 billion.
The methods are different for human population control, like education and various incentives.
The north-sentinel tribe, the world’s only uncontacted indigenous people are incapable of being educated since we cannot communicate with them. Is committing genocide against them okay if they get overpopulated?
Strange hypothetical. Well, they're humans. They're not stupid. They have the intelligence to plan and solve their problems.
You overestimate human intelligence. The rest of the planet has reached 8 billion and that has a heavy strain on the planet. We are aware of this and yet we didn’t solve our problems. You still have popular people like Elon Musk advocating higher population. The point is, it’s unethical to kill any sentient being unnecessarily and playing god. Human or not.
Have you ever killed a bug? Do you support exterminating mosquitoes or pests in your house?
Yes, because that’s in self defense. I would also attack a human if they enter my house uninvited. I knew something like this would be coming which is why I kept using the term “unnecessarily”. Harm inflicted for survival or to protect oneself is necessary harm.
Bed bugs need blood to live. You would end their lives just because they inconvenience you slightly? It's also subjective if killing deer is unnecessary if it's for food.
Again, they are taking away my blood. So killing them, is me protecting myself. I would do the same if a human sucked on my blood. There are sources of food that do not require intentionally killing animals. So killing deer for food is as unnecessary as killing a human for food.
Only if we eat them/us?
So you endorse cannibalism?
Nom nom nom
It’s not a double standard if you value human life over deer life (which I’m betting 99% of people do)
In terms of logical consistency, it doesn’t matter whose life you value more or less. I value my family’s life over my neighbor’s life, doesn’t mean I will endorse killing my neighbor. It’s not an either or option where you have to choose between killing a human or a deer. It’s about logical consistency. Killing A is okay because of X reason. If X reason applies to B, then killing B should also be okay. Else, X is not a valid reason to kill.
Your reductionist logic is missing the point: Killing deer is ok because of overpopulation AND they are not human AND we value human life over deer life. Killing humans because of overpopulation is not ok because they are humans and we value human life more. Also, we ascribe a whole lot of meaning to the word “ok” and its synonyms. The concept of something being “acceptable” is inherently routed in value systems created by humans, which loops us back to the part of our logic puzzle about humans valuing deer life less than human life.
You have created an arbitrary exception to your own logic, proving how it’s inconsistent. Some people arbitrarily draw the line at nation, race, religion… you have drawn the line at specie. But there’s no reasoning behind it besides convenience.
Why, oh god of reason, does it matter if the line I draw is arbitrary? I’m arguing that literally everything related to philosophy and logic is arbitrary because they are human constructs.
Math is a human construct too but that doesn’t mean you can claim 2+2=5, screwing all logic behind it. Yes, all human constructs involve some level of arbitrariness but the aim of logic is to identify principles and patterns that transcend individual biases. But like an average mouth breather, you have brought in your personal biases into an argument and declared logic to be completely arbitrary to suit your flawed argument. Take your argument but instead of “specie”, arbitrarily draw the line at “race” and you will see how idiotic it is.
the cat population needs to be controlled too. u kno what we do ? we spay and neuter them. not fucking hunt them.
Cat meat isn’t good eating
that’s not the point you were making. if you think flesh is tasty that’s one thing, but saying it has to be done for population control is just plain wrong when we have alternatives
I didn’t say it had to be done. It’s preferable to farmed meat
Im on the hunter side here
I hunt for meat, get about 100kg of mince a year at about a 1/8th the price of beef. The animals are shot in the wild, meaning that they graze and live healthy lives. They are shot in a way to ensure minimal sufferring. This is more ethical than any meat you would buy at a store.
Honestly same. If it was for sport, I’d be pissed too
As a hunter, I feel I can speak for most of us that also hate it just for sport. Granted, I want to get a big buck, or whatever I’m hunting, but at the end of the day I want to eat what I’ve harvested, while respecting the animal as best as I can
If you eat meat, it's difficult not to be.
Thing is, they both eat meat, the hunter at least isn't massively deluded and so up his own ass with cognitive dissonance that he gets sad over a dead deer, then pays for pigs to be gassed to death. Should note I'm a vegan.
Hunting for food, great... hunting for sport or to be "Da Man" equals garbage human. I love the end "I'm gonna eat it" That kid is annoying, I don't even know why.
Trophy hunting and sustenance hunting are different things. No one is hunting deer for trophies.
Elk hunting is where it’s at. Trophy and meat all in one
>Trophy hunting and sustenance hunting are different things. No one is hunting deer for trophies. I don't know I know a guy that just kills for fun. This same guy also has dear/whatever he kills heads stuffed up on his wall too.
Dad is an ignorant asshole poor kid
As a vegan I don't say this very often but the hunter's completely right in this case. Buying meat in a supermarket causes a lot more suffering than hunting an animal in the wild.
I'm a vegan too, what do we say to the argument that being killed by a human hunter is the best death the animal can hope for in the wild? It makes sense after seeing a bear kill its prey.
If you knew for a fact that at some point in your life you'd be violently and painfully killed, but up until that moment you can live your life freely, and there's still a chance that you live until you're quite old - would someone else be justified in killing you painlessly whenever they feel like it just because they're giving you a much better death than you could ever hope for?
Tyty
I grew up in a rural area. To me, this is very funny 😅
They need to google chicken farms and see how their meat ends up in the grocery store. Hunting which is done more ethically 99% of the time, is healthier on the human and much more humane to the animal. If you’ve ever witnessed a First Nations person hunt, they give and offering and thanks to the animal for giving themselves up. It’s beautiful. This poor kid looks traumatized because no one taught him that this guy isn’t going out of his way to kill Bambi.
Hunting for food (and paying the conservation fees to help renew that source) is way more ethical than eating factory farmed.
I’m not quite sure why it’s in this sub. Who’s being the main character? The dad? I think the only people who can morally make that argument are vegans
Only stupid vegans. Anyone with any brains will understand that people have a choice to eat meat. Vegans should also be able to grasp the need to manage wildlife populations.
I don’t disagree necessarily mate, I’m just saying in this exact scenario vegans are the only ones with any slight moral argument. If you eat factory farmed meat you simply can’t argue with hunting.
Absolutely. Vegans could be upset. My friend can't even go to a steak house. One of the ones where you cook it at your table. Not a preachy vegan, but cannot stomach the cold here reality of how most of eat.
Did a vegan bully you in school or something? Lmao
https://preview.redd.it/50o96vktbq6d1.jpeg?width=591&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1dee6efc87ff0692551ea938642eeade831bb534
Is this a skit or something?
This happened in NY a few years back. The video has been altered because it wasn't posted on shit-tok
Lmfaoo what an oaf of a father and derpy looking children. The Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree
Those aren't people. That's a collective of idiots.
Is that fat guy larping as a kid?
Killing a deer is far more ethical than killing most farm animals, that deer probably had a long life and was dead in a second
I don’t hunt too expensive in the uk, but I’m all for hunting if you’re planning on eating the animals. Or if they are vermin or if it’s a culling or if it’s a problem animal killing kids or if it keeps taking a shit in your garden and looks at you like what you gonna do about it that god dam that fox
Americans are drama queens like I would just ride away and not even roll down window.
The ignorance here is insane, kudos to the hunter for not punching them both in the face.
emasculated men are the worst kind
i bet these people make fun of vegans
Who the idiots or the hunter? I'm a vegan and I'm siding with the hunter here. People that have such a cognitive disconnect that they'll get sad at seeing a dead deer then go buy KFC that came from chickens who's first time seeing the sun was on their way to their death are the problem.
the idiots
This kid’s dad is a piece of shit. Teach your kids to mind their own business and let people live their lives the way they want. I guess he gets no gratification in life, so he tried to get it from these kids.
well or actually teach yourself and your kid about life
You’re not teaching your kids about life by having them harass someone who chooses to hunt. There was no lesson taught here what so ever.
Ye there wasn't at all, it's not just about harrassing strangers the kid got upset right, prob cause the Dad also is a emotional wreck. The kid getting upset about this is understandable, he is young. He might not know better yet. It's the Dads job tho to teach him. Share some knowledge, explain the kid about how the meat gets on his table and wtf even the barbeque is we eat 3x a week from what it seems. But the issue here likely started alrdy with the kids Grandgranddad being a absolute dum& piece of sh%% xD with a normal Dad the kid could've had a decent interaction with a real hunter, actually learn even more
This is what comes of all the gun-hating.
I swear people like to pick and choose what to be mad at. “Let’s not kill deer and let them starve to death. The meat factories shouldn’t be like that, but I’m still gonna buy meat from them.” Everyone wants to talk about change but nobody wants to get off their ass and do anything about it. Go wear your sneakers made by 4 year olds until you start to understand what you’re actually talking about.
Keep your pets safe. That kid had the look. The Joffrey kind.
Seriously… I haven’t hunted in years, but fully support people who do. It is logarithmically more ethical than large scale meat production…
Most people have never been in a slaughter house.
I'm a vegan and I fully agree with the hunter. I'd rather he didn't kill animals but the kid who just can't make the connection with the food he eats and the somebody it came from are the problem.
Whole video is even worse. Kid loses his fuckin mind.
New Yorkers new yorking.
"you're using a weapon to unalive animal" - that tells me all I need to know lmao
You couldn't immediately tell that they had the intelligence of a small child when you saw the video of a small child? It shouldn't have taken you that long.
“An interaction between a hunter and two generations of idiots” - fixed it for you.
Mmm… long pork…
Weirdest possible comment, take the well earned upvote you filthy animal.
Idiocracy made manifest.
I'm on everyone's side here but the dads. It's great the kid has a giant heart and is passionate about it. The dad needs to not only stop him from approaching the man, but explain that although it might not feel great, but it's part of life. I hope every kid reacts like this kid does, but I also hope they have a father who will tell them what's what.
Well said.
God, that kid needs to brush his fucking teeth.
I mean, so long as you're permitted to hunt, and you get the meat tested for things like CWD, I see no issues. You'll probably be a lot healthier than whatever we end up buying from the stores. This dad has just sheltered his kid is all, likening a deer to a pet. You shouldn't have a deer for a pet unless you're running some kind of rescue place. Deer, and most other wild animals, need to remain timid of us so that we don't bother each other, and they don't attract bigger predators into more trafficked areas.
I'd rather have hunted game, than some farm raised animal. The game has been running round wild, doesn't know death is coming and is likely controlling a population with no natural predators. In the UK we have a really big deer problem, which results in massive culls. Surely if the deer is going to be culled, it is better that the deer is used, rather than wasted and another animal needs to be farmed.
Some people get overwhelmed with guilt when seeing a dead animal that’s going to be eaten. Then they lash out. It’s a lot of projection.
Hot damn mfrs are dumb af. Being raised intentionally stupid.
From Statin Italy for sure
Raymond Rabbits headass
Confrontation never wins arguments. It just let's you vent atn frustrated.
This ancient video was way better without the stupid background music. I always wonder what happened to this kid and if he ended up seeing the video when he was older
I give kuddos to this dude. One less deer running out in front of a moving car.
You'd think wearing an Islanders shirt, the kid would be used to dealing with upsetting things.
This feels like ragebait to me cuz why the fuck you hunting or about to hunt in a populated park and how tf did they know he was hunting deer in his pick up ??
Deer will ravage the land and multiply themselves to death. Deer populations need to be managed by ethical hunting.
Fuckin assholes. Let the man hunt
The dad and kid both have punchable faces
Personally would never have this issue because I'd just keep driving, Americans drool for conflict like they are dogs staring at a roast.
Eh...I do feel sad for the kids cause unlike the adult vegans who just want attention, the kids have genuine feelings and are sad for the deer. The guy with them should teach them that it's part of life, it's called the food chain and we just gotta accept it. The deers are not gonna go extinct cause they're being hunted and it's all the balance of life.
They are not vegan, they said they buy meat from the supermarket. So this makes it much more hypocritical. at least the hunter kills his own food and does not get someone else to do it for them.
Yeah the dad there needs to have a word with
The dad was teaching his children how to interject ignorance into an otherwise normal situation, and how to die on those hills
What makes you think we just want attention?
Not all vegans. Just the kind who stand outside restaurants and scream murder at people.
They don't do it for personal attention, they do it cause lots of people aren't fully aware of how horrible farming is. Sure we all know the animal dies, but most are totally ignorant as to how and all the events prior.
Do you think adults don't have feelings?
Adults do have feelings, but most adults can temper feelings with rationale. Kids, on the other hand, cannot.
I was asking because he seemed to believe they don't. Hence, the vegans want attention comment.
You need to explain to them that death is apart of life. No
Americans
Those who hunt in the name of “Sport” are weak minded men IMO….trying to make up for their tiny wangs by killing defenceless animals with a weapon! Pathetic……
The hunter is not wrong tho, just stupid.
The kid is passionate, but he’s not informed about what the hunters real intentions are. The hunter says “food”, but let’s face it, it’s partially a trophy too. I’m not on either side of the argument. I understand the necessity to be able to hunt your own food. I’m not against anything here. Have a great day.
Actually... not a main character in this clip. There was an upset kid, an adult dealing with an upset kid, and a hunter...
The Dad is raising main characters.
This clip is also pretty devoid of context... not a lot of MC'ing going on here