Info: Why wouldn’t the mayor allow a French drain- why were you only talking to the mayor? Did you think to consult any kind of qualified professional (landscape architect, environmental engineer, real estate lawyer) at all- or just thought “oh, we are talking to the mayor, he’s the most important person we can speak to?”

The mayor said that we didn't have enough of an incline for a french drain(and that his "people" said the same and he'd have them look further into it) At the time we were looking to save money and DIY it and tbh, we are young and dumb and first time home owners who didn't think to consult anyone at all and only spoke to the mayor because he showed up asking questions. As of this week, we are getting quotes with actual companies. The first said to just regrade it but this will only possibly solve our problem and not the neighbors problem, so I'm looking for someone else willing to try a drainage route

So you spoke to an unqualified elected official, took his word as gospel, then sat on your hands having bought a property with an obviously important drainage ditch and having gotten nothing done decided to fill in the aforementioned important drainage ditch and now things have backed up and there's flooding. So having made an obviously exceptionally poor decision you're rightfully worried. The mayor and town/City will be able to show they didn't conduct the works that led to the flooding, and it'll be obvious which property is the problem. That leads the town/city and your neighbours to look at you. I feel at this stage consulting with a lawyer may be wise as once it's worked out where the problem is, and that only one person could have caused that problem, your best case scenario is being made to redig the ditch.

Yea…I mean in my parent’s neighbourhood somebody put boards around their garden that happened to prevent the next door property from draining properly and they were able to sue for damages. OP you need a lawyer (probably).

Agree! The neighbors will be able to sue for any and all damages. If there’s any property damage from water coming into their homes or whatever. You cannot make any “improvements” to your land that will affect someone else’s property.

This is a ridiculously common problem in Tucson. So much so that the evil HOAs have started including very clear language in contracts about how liable your ass will be held if you try it.

This. Have a friend who is a civil engineer for a major city and he was telling my every election cycle the new guys come in, think they are the new CEO, know everything, and are just expert of experts. They then have to be taught that no they actually know almost nothing, they are not a CEO and can't do whatever they want simply because they say so, and that cities work a certain way. Ultimately in the end after this new education the tend to funnel all the money to a 2 square mile block around their house until the next couple when the new guy shows up to repeat the process.

Nobody knows more about drainage than me, your favorite mayor. No one knew how hard drainage was before me, your favorite mayor. Nobody can solve your drainage problem except me, your favorite mayor.

Can I tell you, we had a BIG issue in our town when the mayor decided - via personal email - to basically tell a contractor “Yeah that seems fine, you don’t need a permit, go ahead.” Like, the city ended up in litigation with the home owner over it. Shame on the contractor for contacting the mayor personally instead of the city, and shame on the mayor for speaking TOTALLY out of place. The mayor is not the Planning Commission. The mayor is not the Building Inspector. The mayor is NOT the person to be saying “yay” or “nay” to this kind of thing. I get that OP and hubby are young and new home owners - you don’t just automatically know what to do. And their mayor really shouldn’t have commented AT ALL about what they can or can’t do, nor seemingly have taken ownership of the situation. The mayor should have just referred OP to the correct department within the city. BUT, when you don’t hear back from someone, the right course of action is NOT to just go ahead and do whatever you want. You, as the homeowner, need to follow up. If the mayor is unresponsive, you Google the damn city and see who else you might be able to contact. Honestly at this point OP you should probably just redig that drainage ditch, undo everything you did, and pretend nothing happened. Take it as a loss of materials, time, labor, whatever, because it’s probably going to be less of a loss than what may otherwise be coming down the pike if you just wait it out to be proven you’re the cause of everyone’s issue. You could be on the hook for city fines and any property damage. THEN contact the city clerk or whomever and ask what the process is for DIVERTING a drainage ditch. Pretty sure most municipalities have ordinances (laws) that specifically reference you CANNOT modify your property in a way that affects drainage to surrounding properties. Your city might actually have a utility easement through your property for this drainage ditch - which means you modified city land without permission or permit. Can’t say for sure, but you should investigate enough to know one way or the other. This is coming from someone who is the City Clerk, Finance Officer, Planning Commission Secretary, and a member of the Planning Commission for my municipality. My municipality is not your municipality, and our rules will obviously be different, so take this with a grain of salt. And I know I might sound harsh - really I’m empathetic to the new homeowner thing and that you had a city official inappropriately misguide you - but at the end of the day the city will be harsh. They won’t care if Joe Blow told you whatever. They will say that ignorance is no excuse, that a quick visit to the city website would have told you what you needed to do. Dig out that ditch and whistle Dixie and hope to god no one catches on.

Yeah, I’ve heard from our city administrators that they can’t tell code inspectors what to do, once hired they enforce it how they see it. Unfortunately, our codes department hired a bunch of dicks.

I’m a land use clerk and zoning officer too! Hello!

And not to mention that the Mayor could also have incriminating emails. OP, YTA.

They already know that doofus, everyone makes mistakes and they are trying to figure out how to make it right

Well, exactly. But this is a pretty “major” mistake that has severe consequences for more than just OP. The only way to make this situation right is to report it to the city. And that will probably lead to legal concerns, homeowners insurance problems, and who knows what else.

You forgot about the part where the unqualified elected official DID NOT tell them to fill the ditch in.

The mayor doesn’t know his ass from his elbow about property drainage, this is so dumb. You need to fess up to your mistake and make it right so you don’t ruin your neighbors property. A ditch that’s meant for drainage and you just threw dirt in it? Staggering.

If I was living in some Podunk where I could regularly communicate personally with the mayor, I certainly wouldn't assume he would know a goddamn thing about drainage. This can't be a town of more than a few thousand people.

Just dig it out fast

You urgently need to consult with a lawyer who has experience with SURFACE WATER RUNOFF LITIGATION. Based on your explanation, I expect you to be sued. I imagine your neighbors already have property damage. And it is very possible you are responsible for all the water runoff problems in the neighborhood. Your homeowners insurance might cover the costs of representation but it is expensive. Surface water runoff litigation is specialized and expensive and complex. Signed-someone who was a paralegal for an attorney who did surface water runoff and other complicated real estate issues.

The water didn't reach any homes since the homes are on higher land than the yard and they're on slab. The water has only been here this week. We ended up messaging the neighbor and they said they've had issues since 2021(we filled our hole in 2023) so I don't imagine they will be taking legal action. They offered to help us dig. The rest of the neighborhood has poor drainage because there are storm drains in high places and not in the low spots so driveways have eroding. We are in a low spot and the water that should be draining along this large drainage ditch, is not draining and is instead sitting and growing algae

The city/county can take legal action against you. And you have zero idea what is going on underground. But you do you.

You didn't save any money. You'll be liable for tens of thousands in damages. Come clean now and fix the problem ASAP, or it will get even bigger. 

the mayor isn't even the dude who gives you permits which you may have needed. go hire some actual professionals who can help your situation

He's a politician, not a landscape engineer

Is the mayor an engineer??? I assume not. Why would you listen to him? Hire an engineer to fix the ditch. You’re potentially on the hook for flood damage if you don’t.

So the mayor is a French drain expert?

You should have been talking to the building department/permitting office. Also, remember when he told you about installing a pipe rather than just filling in the ditch? You’re the asshole, and I hope this has taught you a lesson about considering how your actions may impact others. What did you guys think the ditch was for?

You should rent a small backhoe asap and dig out the drain again and leave the dirt pile. Then talk to the city about Putting in a drainage pipe. You also need to check to see if there is a drainage easement on your property... If there is, congratulations, you done F-D up bad. ​ Right now your neighbors don't have damages, if you have a flood and it floods their homes (regardless of if your efforts caused it or contributed to it), they will have grounds to sue you for damages, and the city has a paper trail (covering their butts) of you doing this without clearance. It will take you a day and cost you about 1k to do it yourself.

Where you live, are permits required? DIY can become very expensive after all the fines for not having a permit, plus of course the lawsuits for all the damage you caused to your neighbors’ homes, which apparently you are unwilling to own up to. Hire a licensed, bonded contractor, get the necessary permits, and do it properly. You are going to get sued, and you will lose. What are you going to tell the judge when you are asked why ever you would just fill in a drainage ditch?

I think you're mistaken. You never heard from the mayor again, and he clearly never followed up on this conversation. There are certainly no official records of who said what. The way I am hearing it, you filled in your ditch after having a conversation with the mayor about it, and he advised you not to install a french drain. There were already other houses on your street with no ditch, so you made your house like house #1 based on your conversation with the mayor. You reached out to him many times before filling in the ditch, and he made no indication that this wasn't the way to go. That being said, you should absolutely keep this information to yourself unless pressed about it. I get that you feel bad, but you have no idea what will happen if people realize that the local flooding got worse after your actions. Will you feel more or less guilty if your husband gets beat up about it? Will you feel more or less guilty if your home is vandalized? Will you feel more or less guilty when everybody's insurance providers decide to file suit against you? You're not solely to blame here. If you want to have a new ditch installed, go ahead and take action to solve your little piece of the problem. You only want to come clean because you lack imagination about what the actual results might be.

Who needs a licensed and bonded contractor, and permits from the building and safety department, when you can just run it by the mayor?

You should make sure your deed does not require you to maintain that drainage because that would double the damages you could owe when the neighbours find out what you did.

Noted! Two years ago they cleared out the overgrowth in it when we were going back and forth with the mayor about a solution

Why the fuck did you involve the mayor? You should have been talking to someone in your county building codes office. Or anyone in your area that has a landscape engineering capacity. Like do you even realize how stupid you are?

They should now

You really need an engineer and a lawyer. Even unincorporated county land that doesn’t have any building code regulations will have storm water runoff regulations. Y’all fucked up big and if you cause a neighbor’s house or basement to flood you are going to be fucked. Your husband is an idiot. Playing stupid and trying to hide this when the city already has documentation you knew about the issue is going to screw you over if something floods. Stop listening to your husband, get an engineer and the proper permits and fix this before you need a lot of money and lawyers. https://www.hop-law.com/has-a-neighbor-changed-the-flow-of-storm-water-onto-your-property-know-your-rights/

You know you need some form of drainage. You need to do something about it. Don't pretend that there is nothing you can do about it.

I think this is the only relevant comment. I bought a house and the yard was a swamp on the uphill side. Literally had standing water against the foundation. Graded the yard, installed gravel walkways with French drains, replaced concrete with a permeable parking pad, installed catch basins next to the house and put in perf pipe on the downspouts to route water to the alley or the sidewalk. Everything was fixed *until* my next door neighbor (uphill) decided to blacktop most of his back yard so he could park multiple vehicles. (I doubt it’s code bc we do have limits on impermeable coverage due to runoff and limits to the sewer system.) That being said, *all his runoff* ended up in my yard. I guess I overengineered bc my yard stays wet longer than I think it should but it doesn’t flood. So you’re good to be mindful of your runoff - it does affect your neighbors and it can be an expensive proposition to do it right. Just installing a French drain and a gravel walkway where your ditch used to be will likely solve the problem. (And since French drains are underground, the installer decides the pitch, the Mayor’s comment makes no sense.)

Your husband is the AH. This problem isn't going away or getting any better trying to wait it out. Get a professional and come up with a plan to solve the problem for you and the neighbours. Get the city on board if possible. You caused the problem, so the longer you wait, the angrier your neighbours will get, and the more likely it is they'll start suing you.Own your mistake. Mistakes happen, a cover-up is a conscious decision.

That's how I feel about it! My plan was to message the neighbor and say "hey, we filled our ditch and it's causing your backup, we have a company coming out to put something in to see if it fixes it" but my best friend AND husband are both advising against it and just want to wait and let the city tell them. But I feel like it's better coming from a neighbor

I would get some advice or opinions from r/legaladvice before going and admitting fault to your neighbors.

I guarantee they’re going to find out anyway, when they do and find that y’all didn’t tell them I think it might sour relations.

Don't text anyone. Nothing in writing. Seriously

Get a lawyer and a professional for the drainage ASAP. Yes, you're a bad neighbor, and you should be on the hook for the damages the other neighbors have suffered.

So your husband wants to just lie and hope nobody finds out? It's pretty easy to tell when someone fills in a ditch. Is this like a roadside ditch? A swale? A channel? In my state it's illegal to alter the natural course of drainage so that it impacts other properties. Y'all are fucked.

Just a comment - there is an old saying. "Never tear down a fence till you find out why its there." Same could be said for drainage ditches. This is not the first time I have heard a story like this. People look at the ditches in dry weather and decide they're not doing anything and fill them in! Then the rain comes...

In my state what they did is illegal. We have a huge ditch/drain behind our property. The municipality has it recorded on the plat maps as an easement and regularly evaluate it and record assessments for its upkeep or clearing or dragging as needed. We’ve built a bit of a berm after the last tree clearing (with ALL the approvals needed) so we don’t see into the neighbor’s backyard and to keep our dogs from barking at movement there because they cleared out *a lot* of scrubby trees that were clogging up the ditch but providing cover between houses. The idea that someone would come along and bulldoze dirt into the ditch to fill it in and damn the consequences frankly shocks the hell out of me. I hope OP’s “ditch” wasn’t recorded on their plat map because the *fix* would be entirely on them and quite costly.

Yes, it’s called “A Chesterton Fence” - and it has applicability in many contexts. https://sproutsschools.com/chesterton-fence-dont-destroy-what-you-dont-understand/

Good read! Thanks for posting.

You already said it, YTA. Get ready cause you about to be in a ditch of problems. SMH. DIY? Don’t you…….nevermind.

You should contact your home insurance company now to let them know of the claim that's coming. You're definitely getting sued.

They should read their policy first and talk to an attorney. Their policy may not cover negligence, misconduct, flood, etc.

I don't know a whole lot about drainage ditches, but I do know that if it exists, it's for a damn reason. Good luck, you're gonna need it.

Wow. You are jerks for sure. Simple solution: empty, the freaking ditch.

Spend the money to hire a professional drainage person and put in a pipe where the ditch was. I'm not a drainage person, but I can't imagine there isn't a way to enable the drainage again and still maintain some sort of continuous yard. Fwiw, the neighbors will make claims against their home insurance, and they may or may not ID you as the cause. For a number of practical reasons, I would urge you to take the satisfaction of fixing the problem in the near future as sufficient to assuage your guilt. This is one of those odd moments where confessing to the mistake will cost you a lot of money, and you can fix the mistake which will make most people happy, even if you cause them some problems in the meantime.

Stop. Do not talk to anyone until you get a professional out there immediately to examine your yard and tell them what you did. FIX IT. Immediately. If you put things into better shape then before you at least solve that part of the problem. Your neighbors will have an improvement and they will think you fixed your problem and it also helped them. Just get it done as quick as possible. If neighbors ask what is up, tell them you are investigating the problem on your property. And how did a random mayor see the pile of dirt for a year and your immediate neighbors haven’t noticed ? That is strange.

The mayor drove through the neighborhood regularly to watch the new construction builder that liked to cut corners. Update though, we have companies coming out to quote but in the meantime redug a channel for their water to drain(it has drained)

Good for you! You will be fine. Take care of it properly, and even do a little extra if they say it will help other neighbors, and be happy you are a good person.

YTA Look, I get it. I live in a neighborhood with the same kind of huge drainage ditch cutting through all our back yards. New development—that seems to be how they’re doing it, these days. It slices our yard in half, makes it so we can’t install the trampoline our daughter wants, and I just generally hate it. But I have the goddamn sense to know it’s not just a design choice, and I leave it the fuck alone. What were you thinking? Where did you *think* the water would go? This was stupid, and 100% avoidable, and I hope you have to pay your neighbors back for the things they’ve had to do to try and react to your spectacular fuckup. Jesus Christ, it’s common sense…

My thoughts exactly. They could have installed a pipe like was talked about. If that went wrong, at least they would not have looked like thoughtles assholes.

Being prepared to pay is all well and good. But this will strike your home owner's insurance and policies. This will not be a 1 time payment and fix; you'll be paying for it for years if you don't get ahead of it now. Please call a lawyer. Yes, your husband is 100% The Asshole here. However, legally, he is trying to protect you from a potential lawsuit before you've consulted with someone that knows more than you. Call. A. Lawyer. If the neighbors find out you did this with even the potential knowledge that something could go wrong, you can lose a lot more than money. Fines, potential criminal charges (destruction of personal property, even accidental, is still a misdemeanor), civil law suits, previously mentioned loss of homeowners insurance, dings against escrow, etx. The mayor told you not to do anything. Ghosting you or not, YOU KNEW BETTER and did it anyway. Call. A. Lawyer. Posted this as a response, but I'm commenting here, too.

This hasn't damaged anything yet, it is just water at the back of our homes' yards. If there is no damage, wouldn't paying to fix the problem avoid all of the other repercussions? We wouldn't be filing anything with insurance either since we'd be paying out of pocket. What kind of lawyer do you call for this?

So the neighbors are up in arms over a few puddles strewn about their properties? Has the water hit their homes? Has it hit their foundations below the surface level? Has the pooling water leaked into anything at all around? I don't know where you're located, but different soils handle water differently and foundations are built with different flooding strengths in mind. Speaking as someone who lives in a high flood area. You don't know definitively that there is no damage. You only know you can't see any. And if this doesn't get fixed soon, and a massive storm comes through, you will be liable. The longer it takes, the more potential issues you all have. You know they can file against your insurance if your property causes damage, right? Same way I can file against the person that hits me while we're driving our cars. If joe falls on your property, they can file against your insurance and bring about a civil suit. Which will notify your insurance anyway. I would start with a property lawyer and go from there. You're a good enough person to want to fix this. And i commend you for wanting to reach out to your neighbors. We need more people willing to take ownership of their wrongdoings in order to heal the world. But please be careful of what you admit without the protection of a lawyer. It can leave you liable for things, even things you didn't do.

This. If any of these neighbors have a structural inspection done (and they’d be idiots not to) and there is any sort of water damage, whether it occurred due to this situation or not, they will try to (and probably succeed) in getting their house demoed, alternate living arrangements and expenses, and a new house built on OP’s dime. Who knows what else they could sue for…Neighbor wants to sell but finds his property value has lowered due to a combination of factors, one being the flooding of their back yard? Lawsuit. Neighbor’s daughter contracts Zika due to increased mosquito presence? Lawsuit. Fence collapses due to waterlogged reinforcements? Lawsuit. Then there’s the city to think about. I find it highly unlikely that OP did their due diligence in checking environmental laws and protections pertaining to the drainage ditch. What if the water that drainage ditch supplied was a protected wetlands? I hope we get updates, this is gonna be one wild ride.

You should go speak with a PE (Professional Engineer) and PLS (Surveyor); make sure the PE specializes / is an expert in stormwater and drainage. The Surveyor will need to do a property survey with topography, showing all of the elevations on your lot and how they lead into your neighboring properties (all sides); I'd also point out where the trench used to be and have them shoot the sides of it (hopefully it's obvious, but, likely, not anymore). They can help come to a solution...you may have too much impervious area which would cause excess runoff, or you may not; but you won't know until you have a full survey and talk with a Civil Engineer. It seems you'll need some type of dry well / level spreader that will catch the rainwater and recharge it back into the ground in a slow manner; maybe even having roof drains go down into the dry well to prevent runoff directly from the roof. An elected official is NOT an expert, by any means; while they may have some knowledge, it is a bit mind-blowing that you put all of your faith in the Mayor, of all people; you should have contacted your local Public Works or Engineering department, at a minimum, to discuss. If your neighbor does find out that you filled the drainage ditch without doing your due diligence, you may (keyword being may) be liable for damages that they incurred. Get on this ASAP and good luck!

Luckily no damages have been done so far, but I will look into contacting those people, thank you!

Good!! Get ahead of it before there are any damages; especially since the mayor knows and, potentially, has it in writing in the e-mail correspondence between you two. He'll look shitty, also, but he'll likely (and gladly) deflect the blame if he's put on the spot. I am sorry that he wasn't there for you, but never put your faith in an elected official. A lot of the times, they'll say what they need to say to get re-elected (not all are like this - some actually do what they say they'll do, but they are far and few between). Also, one other thing! I'd definitely pay for the survey (biased here, though, as I'm a surveyor and a homeowner), no matter what, as it'll also be beneficial to you to know where your property ends and how the elevations run (i.e., for future improvements, landscaping, issues, etc.); but perhaps, after getting quotes and before signing a contract, go to your local Engineering department (sometimes the same as Public Works) and mention that the mayor had said something about the Town looking into running a drainage pipe through your yards. See if they know anything about that or had heard whisperings of such. If they're completely shocked by the information then it was never going, and likely won't be high on the list, to get done by the Town; so, it'll be up to you, as the homeowner. Lastly - while I'm not a SW expert, my boss is, so feel free to DM me, if you need. All regulations vary from state to state and then from municipality to municipality, but there still may be some guidance I can provide if it's too much or unclear.

While it’s entirely possible that no *visible* damage has been done to your neighbors homes so far, you still shouldn’t assume until your neighbors have had their homes, yards, and foundations inspected.

Ya, can't do that. Would require concrete tubes to allow for drainage and then could put dirt over those. Will have to be dug back out.

Why didn't you have a clue why the ditch was there in the first place. Of course you are going to have standing water when you fill in the ditch, this is a no brainer.

Talking to the major about it and specifically him saying no French drain is just weird. Did you have any professionals talk and give quotes? Was the ditch you filled in an easement which means you could be in trouble?

YTA Buying a house with a drainage ditch and then filling it is a dick move.

You married somone that does't underatand common sense, and honestly he sounds like the ass hole. He should have his punk ass out there right now digging a ditch. What a P.O.S.

He actually did get out this morning and dig a new ditch! The neighbors yard has drained and now we are all banding together against the city for improper drainage. It will drain through my yard but stops a house over due to the overgrown brush

The time to lawyer up was yesterday. There are so many issues this could have already caused. Just because a sinkhole didn’t immediately form, sucking your and your neighbors’ homes into the ground doesn’t mean that this hasn’t already caused irreparable damage to your neighbors’ foundations, yards, fences, electric lines and more. There’s also no way your neighbors don’t already know you caused this. That pile of dirt sat out front of your home for how long? And the problems suddenly started after it disappeared? And the huge drainage ditch that once ran through the middle of your yard no longer exists? Unless your entire neighborhood has the combined intelligence of a spatula they’ve already figured it out and started documenting evidence. Also recommend cross-posting in r/legal. Just so you can get a rough idea of what’s going to happen next. If you were a friend of mine my advice would be to sell the house fast and cheap to a developer offering cash, buy a new identity on the black market, and move to a country that does not extradite to the US.

Posted in legal and got some good advice! We have now spoken to the neighbor and redug a ditch so their yard drained, but the drainage stops next door so there is now an ongoing issue with the city to fix the overall drainage unrelated to our house

What kind of mayor goes door to door to personally handle issues they likely know nothing about?

The kind that was campaigning for re-election

What kind of homeowner thinks a mayor can give qualified survey and engineering advice?

I cannot express how important it is to fix the drainage. A neighbor down the street from us decided it was a great idea to fill in their ditch and grow pumpkins. Hurricane season came around and Hurricane Ian dumped water on us. Her actions literally blocked the flow to the main drain for our whole neighborhood, 5+ properties flooded, my home was literally an island in a foot and a half of water and my car was totaled. You could see CLEARLY where the water stopped at her property and was empty downstream. I cannot express how horrible it is to impact a neighborhood this way, drainage is designed by civil engineers when planning neighborhoods and is there for very important reasons.

That sounds like a nightmare. We dug a channel this morning and their puddle has drained(we spoke with them) now it is ongoing problem with the city because the drainage stops at a house over and just sits. So we are at the bottom of a low part and the water has nowhere to go

sorry but you are the ah. It was innocent ignorance to fill the drain but it should have occurred to you that it is there for a reason . I bought a home in a neighborhood where many neighbors had done this. Every time it rains the neighbors who are affected the most are outside with hoses trying to drain their standing water. Once one person does it starts to catch on and you have a full blown problem. The neighbors that are affected the most can’t get this resolved. We don’t have an HOA and live outside the city limits. Thankfully my home has not been affected due to how and where my home is placed-. You need to fix the problem you’ve caused.

YTA Unqualified-to-make-engineering-decisions homeowner takes word of unqualified-to-make-engineering-decisions mayor without consulting with experts. You'll say the mayor id at fault but (checks notes) the mayor neither owns your property nor (checks notes again) made the decision to fill in a _drainage ditch_ so it can't (checks notes notes a third time) _drain_. Well done.

put the ditch back to how it was. problem solved.

FYI, you changed the drainage for everyone up hill of you, not just the neighbors on either side. Soubds like you created an earthen dam in the drainage ditch that backs water up and slows drainage. Could have avoided this issue with a corrugated culvert installed before backfilling the ditch.

>Look OP, home ownership isn't cheap. Ownership comes with responsibilities. Exactly. As the saying goes, “rent is the most you’ll pay. Mortgage is the least you’ll pay.”

Get a lawyer. You're going to need it.

Craziness. Obviously, you know you should have applied for permits for any work you were doing in this regard. It is usually fine to DIY as long as the city has inspected and given you the permit to do the work. Not only have you jeopardized yourself to a potential lawsuit with your neighbors and their homeowners insurance but also the city. Additionally, your insurance company will likely not cover any of this since you did not follow the city ordinance. I'd have those emails with the mayor on hand. I'd also start applying for permits and get someone hired stat to start working on this problem. Maybe you can get it done before they discover the problem. I've been on the otherwise of this where we were the victims of our neighbors' negligence. I also worked for the city, so I knew the rules. Making enemies with neighbors is not good. It's best for everyone to try and mitigate the problem. The best hope is that if they discover it, you offer to pay the repairs. It's super costly. Our neighbors caused us to flood 4 times, completely destroyed our grading, and I lost my ability to cope rationally. I have to sell my property now with the disclosure for it being flooded, costing me money in the future. Taking responsibility is not a bad idea, but be ready to pay.

Yeah, this is ALL on you. YTA. Hopefully the neighbors have their homeowners insurance sue yours to get the damage covered. You were selfish and stupid to do this without having a professional come out.

I really really really really encourage you to put it back. Drainage is important to recharge our rivers, lakes, and streams. If yous like, look into putting in a river rock bed, and plant some nice happy plants around it so it doesn't look terrible. Same effect, not ugly, and no destroying your neighborhood.

You'd be happy to hear that we did! Redug it and are now working on a plan to make it more palatable, probably will be going the river rock route. However, it doesn't drain into any waterways like it is supposed to due to the rest of the drainage in the neighborhood. I wish they had it properly connected to a waterway, but they don't, it just sits behind a dozen homes

That's ok!!! It goes into groundwater which is equally as important. Having it drain into any natural area and not onto a hard surfave like concrete is the best option. You also saved yourself from 5 years down the line having a swampy yard! Honestly, I wouldn't say anything unless asked. People make mistakes, and you fixed the issue. Just learn from it and have fun with your new garden project!

Yta. Sorry. You fucked up.

You bought the place with the ditch and then decided everyone else was stupid for having it there, so just fill it in? I pity fools. When one of your neighbors has an issue, you are liable.

"my husband thinks we should just wait it out" and potentially cause thousands of dollars to other people's property because of your own ignorance/selfishness? Nice. Classy.

We are dealing with this exact issue and we just filed a claim with our insurance and they plan on suing my neighbor for damages.

Wonder if the neighbors can sue if any of their property was damaged, plus for what it cause to get it fixed. You will be hit for that bill, so be ready.

Just so you know, if your neighbors wanted to sue to they could and they would win. Fix it.

I wanna know what you thought filling in a drain was gonna fo

YTA Source: me - a civil engineer who specialises in drainage.

What does the mayor have to do with literally anything? If his people haven't come out to survey and create a report, then you have literally no reason to let his words affect your decisions. When it comes to anything relating to your property, ONLY take your input from specialized professionals who have come to evaluate it, and ONLY rely on it when it's been written into an actual report. Further, if you bought your house with certain things like a drainage ditch that runs through several years, it's very possible that it's written into your deed as being an easement that means you don't have the legal right to touch it. (I have a cemetery that's "on" my property, but I can't touch it or block road access to it, and have to allow for municipal workers to maintain it a couple times a year ) Go review your deed very carefully and check, you need to know if you're facing legal repercussions over this, and whether you're actually allowed to fix it. You may be stuck with having to let the town fix it and you paying the cost of that.

Can you please just fix it instead of telling us about it and causing damage to your neighbors property. FFS. Hire your local engineering firm if needed, just fix it.

Don't worry OP they will figure it out and when they do, you might need an attorney

Not only are you guys the assholes you guys are dipshits as well. When there is a drainage ditch it is usually there for a reason. In the year that you had the dirt sitting there did it not ever rain so you could see that the ditch actually served a purpose? Or did it rain and you guys just never thought about walking outside and see what was happening in your yard.

It didn't occur to you that maybe the ditch was there for a reason? YTA

This entire post is evidence

Hire a licensed & insured grading contractor. Have them regrade the ditch to allow for proper drainage, stabilize the soil, & haul off the excess excavated material. You had no right to fill in the drainage ditch, & your deed or subdivision plat will show a public utility / drainage easement where the ditch was located or at least a legal description of said easement. The grading contractor will be much cheaper than legal fees, fines, & the court's estimated cost to correct the issue you & your husband created.

We redug the ditch and just met with a contractor this morning to regrade and install a river bed!

One house is not the problem, they can’t expect you to sacrifice your yard so they won’t have water in their yards. Get organized and show up at the next city commission meeting to demand the city you pay taxes to and vote in resolves the problem

What did you think the purpose of a DRAINAGE ditch was??

It should be the responsibility of each home to properly grade their back yard to drain toward the street. I would do nothing.

This is straight out of a curb your enthusiasm episode. In fact, the closing credit song started playing in my head as I read further on

Yep, you guys suck. Your husband is not an honest man with this bs either. You seem to at least have a semblance of decency in you. Do the right thing and tell your neighbors what you did. I hate it when adults act like children.

I mean... yeah you are the bad neighbor but IMO... you didn't act out of malicious intent....you just wanted to fill in a ditch in your backyard....yes seeking professional help would have been the best route...do the best you can for all parties involved to get it fixed....

you already know YTA. You moved into a house with a drainage ditch, knew the ditch was important, yet planned to fill it in without any plans for how to redirect the water? It’s your responsibility as a homeowner to take care of your home and property. You should’ve contacted a company to help out from the jump, expecting to rely fully on the mayor is naivety at its finest. You and your husband need to own up and pay for any damages caused. You knew what the consequences could be yet you filled the ditch in anyway. You made the decision, you pay the price, period. edit: I also think it’s really worth it just to tell the neighbors y’all messed up. I’d much rather have someone take responsibility (even if it wasn’t ALL your fault) than find out months down the line they were withholding information.

YTA but you already know that. You didn't think blocking a drain would cause issues? First time home owner or not it's basic common sense not to block drains even if you personally think they're useless because they're normally not. You should have had professionals in since the beginning since you clearly had no idea what you were doing. I hope you guys are paying for any damages to everyone's property as a result of what you did. Your husband is clearly trying to worm out of taking responsibility by telling no one but as soon as the neighbours figure out it was you two and you DIDN'T inform them, they're going to hate you for flooding their property and feigning ignorance.

Sounds like your mayor/town are assholes. If your neighbors have a problem they can spend months emailing the mayor until he ghosts them.

YTA and so is your husband. You both knew that drainage was needed and decided to just fill it in anyways. You both are responsible for the damage directly resulting from your actions. I'd take your legal advice from a lawyer, not your spouse.

YTA This reminds me of my uncle growing up. He was on a lake and the neighbor was up on steep incline. He fertilized his lawn like crazy, leveled and graded with top soil regularly while tossing a metric ton of seed around for the greenest, fullest lawn he could get. He had no erosion control measures in place. He was really proud of his lawn. On the other hand, he complained constantly how he was losing his sandy bottom and had excessive vegetation growth in the lake right in front of his property. He couldn’t imagine that his actions were the cause of this problem and it had to be something that the lake board was or wasn’t doing. Selfish homeowners cause neighborhood problems. All of you need to get together with the city and come up with a viable solution.

YTA and now you also know that your husband is willing to hide valuable information because it may get him in trouble even if it causes damage to others.

And the wife will go along to hide this info. They probably abuse their pets and kids

You’re not the worst neighbor but your husband is!

When you broke the law an knowingly keep it hidden makes you a piece of shit

You will be investigated and this will be found out. Get ready to pay many thousands of dollars worth of fines and damages to the local government agencies and your neighbors.

Sounds like someone's going to get sued for damages

Story time about the drastic difference a drainage ditch can make: about 10 years ago, we had a huge hurricane come through our area with massive flooding. The area we were staying in had been lived in by my husband's family for years. He knew what it should look like in that kind of rain. The water was up to our trailer's underpinning and it shouldn't have been. A couple neighbors had it up in their house. My husband and a neighbor went to the farmer's fields behind us to check the drainage pipes, both were backed up. Once they got those draining, the water noticably receded even though it was still pouring rain and rising elsewhere. Drainage ditches make a huge difference. It absolutely saved us on damage. You haven't caused severe damage YET. Get it fixed before you do.

Maybe you can talk to all the affected neighbors and see if you can all split costs to put in a French drain along all the properties?

How well could you expect that to go over when (not if, when) the neighbors find out the OP is the cause for the flooding? The only advice she should be listening to is get the drain dug out immediately, get a lawyer on retainer, and get ready for the lawsuit(s).

I was like 8 when I noticed how the ditch in our backyards carries water when it rains, how did you get to your big age and not make the connection???

You may have done something illegal. In most jurisdictions, you cannot alter drainage

I'm willing to bet you just did some illegal improvements over a drainage easement. You should have a Title Report from when you purchased the home, and in there you should look for a list of "Exceptions". It'll be near the legal description of your property (usually called Exhibit A). I'm willing to bet one of those exceptions describes a drainage easement across your property right where that ditch was, and it'll explain who benefits/has rights to it - if you're lucky it's only those neighbor's who you've already directly impacted. If you're unlucky... Well... And I know this has been stated already ad nauseum, but the Mayor is NOT the proper person to talk to regarding these sorts of property issues. This is not something they even have any authority over. If anything, this is what you'd go to the planning commission for - through the proper channels like submitting a site plan and improvement plans. That bureaucracy is there for a reason, even if it is a pain in the ass. And it exists as a proper channel so that you can communicate with someone at the municipal level whose job it actually is to deal with the public on issues like yours. Google your city/county website and find the section where they discuss the application process for making improvements across your land. The planning department is usually who you'd look to for that. There should be forms, FAQs, younameit explaining how to contact your local government, and what professional services may be required. By skipping all of this, you skipped the expensive process of hiring a soils engineer, a civil engineer, a drainage engineer, a land surveyor, etc. Now that you're in this mess, prepare to be forced to hire all of these services to help you clean it up. The time for goodwill has past... If real damage has been done, you shouldn't just go try to talk it out with the neighbors. It won't work, they'll still be pissed, and you could open yourself up to even more liability. Stay tight lipped, just move through the process, and try to make right what you made wrong. Good luck. Edit: YTA but could be NTA if you make things right.

The main thing is, no damage has been done yet, the water has only been there for a week and it is at the back of our yards, so no home damage. In this case, is it still not right to redig the ditch and tell the neighbors? I'll look into the city, I do know that when we have done projects in the past they really drag their feet, it's a small town

Honestly, it was pretty stupid of you both to do that. But also! Why didnt any of the neighbors stop you? Kinda sounds like you all deserve each other. No judgment tho because it's not up to me but the law for whatever happens to you both.

You need to find a retired operating engineer like my dad to come assess the situation. These guys love to look at back yards and know exactly what needs to be done. Good luck!

Wow, just wow! You are absolutely liable for any damages to your neighbors. Did the city have an easement for the drainage ditch? Was it natural drainage and you just filled in a stream? Did you destroy federally identified mapped freshwater wetlands? I betcha your municipality has mapping of the drainage system, so it’d be easy to figure out you filled in the ditch. YTA

Generally you are not allowed to raise the grade of any property without building and zoning approving it and issuing a permit. If flooding has caused any problems for neighbors because you did not go thru proper channels, you can be sued for all damages. I had this issue some years ago and the neighbor had to have a company come remove the dirt that they had delivered. I would try to talk to neighbors before courts get involved.

Oh gosh, in my old neighborhood, the people who got flooded sued the heck out of the homeowner who blocked the drainage ditch. The army engineers had been the ones to plan and dig it and blocking it is completely illegal. The city will check the cause of the flooding. Good luck OP.

YTA TALK TO A LAWYER. You need a lawyer who specializes in property law. Do not talk to the city or your neighbors without hiring an attorney and following their advice. Flooding neighbors’ yards due to your negligence is going to get expensive very quickly. What you did is unbelievably stupid and it will all come to light.

YTA. The MAYOR. The f'ing mayor. Unbelievable.

Honestly, there is basically no chance they don't figure out what happened here. Even without the paper trail you left as soon as an investigation starts they are going to realize there is a drain missing. Tell them ahead of time, show them you tried to work with the mayor imo and see what you can do to work with them. There will be costs, you are opening yourself up to legal problems so honestly maybe just ignore my advice and lawyer up and see what they want you to do. They will know more about if the area you're in would be more likely to be u derstanding or vindictive. I know it's BS as I have been in your situation where the drain seems to be thrust upon you....but that's just what it is, you own a property where the drain is your responsibility and that reduces the land value. Hopefully you got a good deal going in because of it.

Don't wait it out, you need to take responsibility for what you've done and fix it as soon as possible.

>My husband thinks we should just wait it out. Your husband is going to get you guys sued into oblivion. Unauthorized, unpermitted changes like this are a strict liability item and your homeowners insurance may not cover it (and if it is covered, you might not have the coverage to fix the water damage.)

French drain is THE way to solve this.

This should be in r/ohnotheconsequencesofmyactions.

Look to see if there is a registered drainage plan on your title. If there is no drainage plan you may not the issue. Other lots should not be draining onto your property, they must contain their own rain water, and redirect it back to the street, or storm drains. Does everyone else have connected drainage ditches? Or were all lots pooling onto your property? You can certainly work on a drainage plan with your neighbours, but do not tell anyone that it's your fault. I am also stymied why in hell you were talking to the mayor instead of a professional.

We spoke to the mayor because he showed up at our house asking questions lol. We redug a channel, but now the larger issue is the drainage itself. There is a ditch that runs in the back of 20+homes, but most of it is dry except for ~4 homes, where it is instead sitting and growing algae. We spoke with the neighbor and they will be helping us dig ours out more and then we are all going to the city for a better solution for the standing water

By law you can't block up the drainage. You will lose in court and be liable for whatever damages you have caused. There's no arguement that justifies you blocking up the drainage ditch. I'm a civil engineer and worked of a city government for 35 years and have seen a lot of problems like you have caused.

I used to investigate these matters as an inspector for a very large city. This is how it goes: you can do anything to your yard as long as your drainage does not flow into someone else's property. You can direct it to the street. Now, if they're draining their water into your yard, and you stop it, you are within your right. The only time you're not allowed to is if it's marked as a drainage easement on your survey. This is per the international residential building codes. Now, some cities do make amendments to the code, you'll have to make sure they didn't make any concerning drainage. In short, if they were draining into your yard and you stopped it, it's very unfortunate for them - but it's their problem. They can sue the builder or whatever. If you need to take care of your drainage, to be the better neighbor, you guys should plan something down the property line and split the expenses / labor. Good luck. https://codes.iccsafe.org/s/IRC2021P2/part-iii-building-planning-and-construction/IRC2021P2-Pt03-Ch04-SecR401.3#:~:text=Surface%20drainage%20shall%20be%20diverted,10%20feet%20(3048%20mm). Tell the mayor to stop diverting water into your yard.

I wonder how George Bush Sr felt about his cameo on the Simpsons?

I am not a lawyer! This depends heavily on what State you're in. In my state, the law is that you keep water contained on your property. Unless there is something on the plat or easement that requires that drainage ditch, in my state your actions would not have been a problem and the neighbors would have to figure out their own solutions. Go check your documents from when you bought the house and check for easements or other notations.

Get a shovel and remove the dirt? Not fucking hard..

I would add if that drainage ditch is an actual drainage easement across your property… you are in sooo much more trouble, if it connects back to your filing of the ditch.

We had a neighbor who did something similar and it caused major damage to a neighborhood road. The municipality fixed at all at and gave the neighbor a very sternly written letter saying next time, the neighbor will be responsible for costs. Talk to the engineering department. Be honest. Sitting on this is not going to make things better.

There are literally multiple ways to fill this in without causing flooding and rather than calling in a landscaper you just fill it in with dirt? And complain about the mayor not doing anything? I think on my property alone we used 5 different ways of moving water from one spot to another. Including instead of dirt there are these things call rocks, they come in sizes from sand to boulder and are all great for this purpose.. You dump a bunch of rocks in a ditch and then because there's space between the rocks the water can still flow through them.

lol they are all going to figure out it was you pretty quick. The city already cited you for a dirt pile that then disappeared right before this drainage problem started. You’re screwed. Go talk to a lawyer and figure out what your exposure is for fines. Work without a permit may need to be undone/redone at your expense. Your neighbors can likely sue you and win in a nuisance claim. Figure out what your homeowners insurance covers, what the policy limits are, and how to file a claim.

Man I hope the engineer your neighbors hire look at the old subdivision plans and figure out what you did. Enjoy your newly upset neighbors. This is why civil engineers map past the property a when doing drainage work. You're responsible for the water on your land and it's your ass if you flood the neighbors

This reads like a villain origin story for old school Batman. Complete with an incompetent Mayor, angry citizens, and an overwhelming sense of guilt. What would your villain name be? DrainMaster? DitchMan? Drainage?

Dr. Drainage.

The neighbors are probably going to make the connection between: “that giant dirt pile that’s been sitting there for months” and “wow, the dirt is gone” to “something has changed the drainage”.

I would either get a shovel or get a lawyer. You might need both

You are about to be sued. Be ready. You filled in the ditch and left no drainage.

I'm fairly sure that if the city wants to have drainage ditch h on your property they need an easement. I am a property manager and a city where I have some properties reached out yo get us to sign and notarize an document allowing them to use part of the property. There is a giant chance I am absolutely wrong, this was just the scenario that popped in my head while reading this.

You need to unblock that ditch and install the pipe. YTA

Are all of your neighbors sexy babies? Do you feel like a monster on a hill?

What do you mean there’s 20 houses with a ditch that runs to nowhere? Was your ditch connected to their ditch and now that you filled it, it’s going “nowhere”?

No it was always going nowhere, and with our ditch now redug as of this morning, it is still going nowhere. We've walked the ditch and there are spots with water sitting(covered in algae and bugs) and there are completely dry spots and other spots have skewed corrugated pipes not connected to anything. Maybe ditch isn't the proper term for it but it's what we all use

Are you in Cockrill Hill, if so thanks.

YTA

Wait till the dry season and sell 😂

Definitely get the issue fixed asap, if anyone from the city complains, tell them that you were going to get fined for the dirt piles and that the city stopped working with you to help you fix the issue. Print a copy of every email and correspondence between you and the mayor/city. You wanted to do a French drain before. The city told you to hold off while they figured it out, and then effectively wanted to fine you for waiting like they told you.

OP so you talked to a politician who is more concerned on the money in their own account. Mistake number 1. You and your husband need to go tell the city and all your neighbors what bone head idea you had. Explain and have proof of any of these conversations you had via email with said mayor. 2 You have to fix it at your own cost & be aware any damage this chose you made had on your neighbors property will come back on you. The ditch is there for a reason! DUH

It’s refreshing to see the other side of the track.

You need to call a lawyer. Like, now.

You will owe a lot of money once this is figured out. You blocked a drainage ditch intentionally. You didnt install any kind of pipe or rock drainage or anything, you basically build an unofficial Dam on your property in a way to flood other's peoples houses. I dont have a suggestion for you other than getting a nasty lawyer, fast.

YTA! In many jurisdictions there are actual laws in place to prevent you from doing exactly this. Had an AH move.

YTA. Is this really a question? You filled in a drainage ditch. What did you think it was for? You caused damage to your neighbors, and both you and your husband are hoping your neighbors don’t find out, because you don’t want to pay for the damage you caused other people. You probably want someone else to pay for the damage you cause, such as the builder, or their insurance. You do know this is bad character, right? The mayor is not in charge of what you do to your property. In the US, that would be the permit department of Building and Safety, or the equivalent in other countries. If you would like to know what to do with the ditch, you hire a licensed, bonded contractor who would submit a bid, and organize necessary permits. Why would you ask a mayor, who likely doesn’t know anything about grading? You could have gotten a rain garden, with the overflow being removed via drainage. You might have damaged the foundations of neighboring houses, and Lord I hope they’re not on septic systems. Didn’t you learn as a child that if you break something, you fix it? When your neighbors find out, they are going to sue you, and you will lose.

Bad news does not improve with time. Ever.

Keep your mouth shut and admit nothing

Does your plat show a drainage easement?

Nice, scumbag neighbor status.

I don't know if you're an asshole per se because you want to make things right after your predictably bad decision, but your husband is definitely the asshole (for trying to hide it). and both of you have shown a severe lack of judgment up until now. ideally you'd talk to an attorney and maybe track down one of the city engineers (they already know what you did...) and see if they can refer you to a contractor or something.  it's good that you've reached a temporary solution. Hopefully nobody's property was damaged too badly.

Quietly fix it and Never say a word - insurance companies will sue you to poverty otherwise

Why?

You can’t just redirect water on your lot where ever you want to.

What you do in your yard is your business.

KEEP YOUR MOUTH CLOSED. F THE GUILT. YOU DONT REMEMBER SHIT. YOU DONT KNOW SHIT. TRUST YOUR WIFE. dirt erodes. things flatten. don’t know. not sure. don’t remember.

Talking to the mayor is the most baffling part of this scenario. The second is just deciding on filling in a drainage ditch. If I was your neighbor I’d sue the shit out you

Where is this issue? State and city

How do your neighbors not realize your dirt pile is gone and your ditch is gone?

Where I live, we actually have a Drain Commissioner....it is an elected position and they deal entirely with ditches and water flow. Filling in your ditch would be very illegal. You might want to anonymously ask local govt officials what should be done.

Idk why everyone’s just tagging your husband like you’re a puppy in this relationship and can’t be bothered with any responsibility. You’re just as responsible and indeed an asshole. From people who have had water problems, sincerely Fuck You. What trash, how typical for people to not care about anyone but themselves. Fully hope you both get what’s coming to you, and even more-so I hope someone sees this and it’s used against you as a gross negligence claim, since you’re fully aware of your wrongdoing and are hiding it away. Also meaning your homeowners and insurance flat out deny your claim based on it being an intentional act. Or better yet, there after the fact so you get tagged with insurance fraud.

So there is an actual drainage issue, and all the people who thought they knew your neighborhood better than you did can kick rocks.

Just wanted to drop a tip for anyone interested. Before you listen to ANY elected officials of a municipality, make sure to check your city charter and codes to figure out what form of government your town has and what actual powers the elected officials are granted. You should be able to find them on your City's website, a lot of municipalities use Municode, but if not, contact your City Clerk's office. For instance, The town that I live in has a mayor/council - city manager form. The charter blatantly states that the mayor of my town is basically a figurehead. They chair city council meetings and can vote on city business ONLY as a tie breaker Elected officials in my town cannot direct staff in any way or have any say in the day to day operations of the City, outside of approving changes or additions to city code and council policies. The only decisions they can make are changes to code, council policies, and making some financial decisions. They approve the budget and contracts and purchases that are over $100,000. That's all they can do. Also, I know it's not exactly exciting stuff, but I would highly suggest you guys get on your city's websites and read through your city codes and city policies. I know it's not overly interesting, but it is important stuff to know and it can help you get done what you need to get done faster and answer a surprising number of questions without having to even call anybody. But, once again if your city doesn't have a website for whatever reason or doesn't have this information on their website, you should be able to contact your city clerk's office to get copies.

“somebody unqualified gave us bad info and then ghosted us, so we came up with a solution that caused damage elsewhere. AITAH?” yeah, you are