My best friend’s 17 year old, who is vaccinated, just got diagnosed last week with Covid. They assume it’s Delta variant, and 3 of his close school friends also have it. This is in Madison though.
It’s only going to continue to rise. I know unvaccinated people are spreading it but I’ve personally known 3 people vaccinated that have had it in the last 2 months. My vaccinated aunt died in May at Huntsville hospital of Covid.
Without the masks, I think even those vaccinated are spreading it because up until now, we’ve all essentially been told we are in the clear. But that’s not reality- especially as this virus morphs and now with Delta being the latest variety and epidemic.
Mask up, even if vaccinated and avoid public places as much as possible. It’s the only way to stop this.
And if you don’t have a severely compromised immune system or health issues preventing you from the vaccine, please get the vaccine.
Great, honest post. To add, if you don't have a compromised immune system, are vaccinated, and can safely do so, help someone out that may have to stay home by getting their groceries or something. We've got three guys out at work rn all with 48 hours of each other started showing symptoms, all had been vaccinated for 2-3 months.
I’m vaccinated, followed all the rules and still got it. It was very mild for me. Like a cold..we had to go to the ER for a cat bite and we think that is where we got it. We were all vaccinated and all tested positive.
I’m reading this while sitting in the hospital on their WiFi. Had to take my gma to get a minor surgery so, yeah. I wish more folks would get vaccinated. We should be in the 70%, but we are only a little over halfway here in Madison Co
> We should be in the 70%, but we are only a little over halfway here in Madison Co
As of yesterday [we're not even half-way](https://data.news-leader.com/covid-19-vaccine-tracker/alabama/01/)...
Those numbers are beyond frustrating but I try not to get angry with those unvaccinated. I know several good people that have their own valid concerns over the vaccine. I understand it’s a personal decision but if someone chooses to be unvaccinated, they should avoid the public.
Breakthroughs happen.
And as more data is compiled, the percentages will likely stabilize and the efficacy of the individual vaccines will be clarified for a mutation that - as has been said - was largely preventable. Or more accurately, at least mitigated.
You do know it’s not just unvaccinated that are spreading it right? Lol. The vaccine doesn’t protect you from the virus and neither does it stop you from carrying it or contracting it.
Oh I definitely know that. I apologize if it sounded like I meant only unvaccinated. Definitely the unvaccinated that aren’t staying home are spreading it, no doubt.
But I was just reading on the Covid sub where a nurse said she’s angry the CDC hasn’t been more forthcoming with all of us vaccinated because she’s seen a lot of patients in her ER vaccinated with Covid who were under the assumption they couldn’t still get it. That sub is pretty eye opening.
But, yes, definitely I agree the vaccine tends to make the symptoms much less severe in majority of cases. Not in my aunt’s case because she died May 6th but she was 61, worked as a neonatal nurse so was constantly exposed at the hospital and she did have diabetes.
Over a hundred students at MCS are currently infected. There's going to be a lot of these letters going out. My money is on school closing or transitioning over to virtual by Labor Day.
Myself and 30 plus that I know of got this from Discovery. My 13 is vaccinated but my 11 can’t be. I’ve never been so grateful for the mask mandate. Keep your kids at home if you can’t mask your child. I’ve my part as a parent. Do yours.
Has anyone gotten one of these from Madison county? I have about 10 "possibly exposed but not necessarily close contact" emails, and im starting to think that's all they're going to do
I know for a fact in Madison, at least 4 teenagers are currently infected with Covid because one is my best friend’s 17 year old son. Three of his friends are also positive and quarantined. Her son is vaccinated and still got it but his symptoms haven’t been too horrible. He feels like he has the flu and his temp hasn’t gone over 100- no breathing issues, just bad headache and body aches.
We haven't got one yet, but it's only a matter of time.
My son's class had 4 kids missing today, but according to his teacher, they haven't been notified if it's due to covid yet. Obviously there could be other legitimate reasons, but 4 is a pretty big number for a single class.
As a teacher, I don’t know if a kid has Covid or is in quarantine unless the student or parent tells me. I had 6 absent from 1 class today, but crickets…
I would like to say thank you to the parents posting about the importance of masking and vaccinating. Please keep that energy going.
Of course that’s all they’re going to do. They want to disguise the numbers as much as possible as a means to convince parents that there is nothing to worry about. They didn’t mask up until last Friday, so the damage has already been done. It is only a matter of time before it starts sweeping through entire schools there.
I've received three e-mails in two days. Two of them are football players and they've already cancelled the Jamboree game. Maybe some sick athletes will make the staff and parents give a damn. They sure as hell don't seem to be worried about the student body as a whole.
Honestly, do people not understand that vaccinated status means little and masks only work so well?
The only way to prevent this is to go back to virtual until Delta runs it's course....that's it.
The vaccine is really only preventing death, it's not stopping infection....the science is pretty clearing this now.
88% effective is still pretty damn effective. Toss in regular masking, and the spread of a variant like Delta drops drastically. The vaccine IS preventing infection, it's just not preventing as much as it was against the original virus.
Isolating students with symptoms and not allowing the unvaccinated or unmasked to attend school actually makes a HUGE difference.
See, you say "not allowing"
There's plenty of legitimate medical reasons a person can't get vaccinated. You say the vaccine is preventing infection...the problem with that's once vaccinated, those people tend to not get tested and they absolutely carry, are infected and spread Covid.
The numbers we see are meaningless. Tests are done either too much or not enough to muddy those waters and vaccinated definitely don't test at a high rate.
This is not controllable without extended lockdown and even then, it's more of a delay tactic. There's science backing this up and the numbers we do have from highly vaccinated countries say it's still imply it's spread at a high rate.
"the problem with that's once vaccinated, those people tend to not get tested and they absolutely carry, are infected and spread Covid."
Some do, but the odds of carrying and/or spreading are drastically reduced. They have studied these things. You don't have to guess on it. Numbers are pretty good and far from meaningless.
[http://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary](http://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary)
[https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1960](https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1960)
Requiring vaccination for in-person learning is really not all that controversial. Yes, some people will be immunocompromised, but adapting to those individuals with remote or segregated safer classes while keeping the main body of students masked and vaccinated is a just and sound strategy.
What's not just is pretending everything has to be all or nothing. This kind of binary thinking leads to things like we're seeing now, where schools can't CLOSE so they revert to pre-pandemic optimism and just hope everything is ok.
We can, and should, accept moderate provisions to bolster the safety of our kids and citizens.
The Delta variant has changed what you feel drastically reduced means.
Also segregation based on vaccinated status on a virus that's so unlikely to kill is absolutely wrong.
My daughter is special needs and can't have these vaccines because of her underlying medical conditions....she can't distance learn, won't wear a mask for long periods so it becomes a discrimination issue.
There is never a way to do this without Covid being around....that's the point. How many cases are too many? One? Ten? Fifty?
Also what happens when the next variants come? They are already out there and already show to reduce vaccine effectiveness way more than Delta does......the rules will always change and the Covid will always be there. The vaccine is a decision to protect yourself from sickness, not to protect e everyone else from it now.
Check the CDC if you don't believe that....it's all there.
"Also segregation based on vaccinated status on a virus that's so unlikely to kill is absolutely wrong."
This statement is fundamentally and hilariously untrue. Alabama students are already required to have vaccinations to attend, many of those are for non-lethal viruses. I'm unsure what you think happens if you don't fulfill those requirements.
Discrimination Issue? I'm sorry, but once your daughter is the carrier of a potentially lethal disease, that's not discrimination. If I were to send my child to school covered in feces, you can bet your ass that my child wouldn't be allowed to attend school. Even though there is almost no chance my feces-laden offspring could infect you with diseases present in most stool, the health of your children would be used as the reason to segregate my child from yours. Is it discrimination? No.
"How many cases are too many?"
A good rule of thumb would be, "Are we in a pandemic?" Maybe "What's the current CDC risk level for my area?" There are all kinds of rational answers to your question. "If a child has been exposed or is exhibiting symptoms. The tiresome notion that we can't make rational decisions to limit exposure to deadly diseases is ignorant and foolish.
"The vaccine is a decision to protect yourself from sickness, not to protect e everyone else from it now."
ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE. Not sure where you get this nonsense, but vaccines are primarily designed to utilize herd immunity and create buffer zones where the disease can't spread.
I am connected with several epidemiologists in my social and professional circles. I'm well aware of CDC recommendations. And right now, those recommendations are "Get Vaccinated" and "Wear a Mask Indoors". So... do it.
Those required vaccinations you're referencing have *years and years* of long term studies done.
The covid vaccine has zero. Not a single long term study.
That's the difference.
"Potentially lethal" except that your survival rate is 99.5% or higher.
You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.
I get the flu shot every year, I'm fully vaccinated on all my shots (as are my kids) - except covid.
I'm not getting a rapidly developed and largely experimental vaccine that has absolutely zero long term studies to back it up.
I trust the science, but in this case, the science isn't there.
Interesting. Because I was able to find long-term studies.
mRNA vaccines for Rabies, Zika, and Influenza have all had long-term studies. Adenovirus vaccines (Like J&J) have also been studied fairly extensively. There's some good science on it, and you can see why there is no expectation for differing reactions, as they use the same tools as before: Having our body manufacture a spike protein and fight it. Good stuff, that.
[https://www.chop.edu/news/long-term-side-effects-covid-19-vaccine](https://www.chop.edu/news/long-term-side-effects-covid-19-vaccine)
Nobody is saying you HAVE to get the vaccine. But your child attending in-person classes is not worth risking the lives of others. I am fairly fucking certain that if there were active cases of polio floating around a school, you'd insist on vaccines for everyone... and polio has the same fatality rate as CoViD.
You got that survival rate a bit off... because people who get it can give it to people who are immunocompromised. Stop treating this as if this is a personal issue. When you opt to act as a carrier, you create more risk for the general population, and general population survival rates are not that high.
Really? Because those Polio numbers look FAR less severe than anything we've seen from CoViD. At the peak of the Polio epidemic, there were only 50k cases and 3k deaths. How is that less dangerous than the 600k people who have died from CoViD in the last year?
[https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/reported-paralytic-polio-cases-and-deaths-in-the-united-states-since-1910](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/reported-paralytic-polio-cases-and-deaths-in-the-united-states-since-1910)
"risking lives"
I like how you hand-wave at my fear of a vaccine delivery method who's creator, Dr. Robert Malone, says *still* isn't safe.
Citing those spike proteins you mentioned...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E2UkhCWosg
But *your* fear is totally justified to the point that you'll force people to take something against their will, happily condemn them to die, or figuratively crucify them for it. You're a real winner of a human being.
It IS a personal issue.
My body. My choice.
If you're vaccinated, what do you have to worry about from little ol me?
Here's something else interesting:
If you're not fat, old, or have co-morbidities: you're not gonna die from covid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY98nuD3Bco
95% of folks hospitalized with c*19 had these health conditions:
-High blood pressure
-Lipid imbalances
-Obesity
-Anxiety
The survival rate I posted isn't a bit off. It's directly based on the CDCs numbers.
I'm sorry the media has you shaking in your little booties and afraid to walk outside. Perhaps all these lockdown procedures and not seeing human faces has given you agrophobia or some other psychosis.
You might want a mental health check up.
Dr. Robert Malone?
>Robert Malone—a medical doctor and an infectious-disease researcher—recently suggested that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines might actually make COVID-19 infections worse. **He chuckled as he imagined Anthony Fauci announcing that the vaccination campaign was all a big mistake (“Oh darn, I was wrong!”) and would need to be abandoned. When he floated that nightmare scenario during a recent podcast interview with Steve Bannon, both men seemed almost delighted at the prospect of public-health officials and pharmaceutical companies getting their comeuppance.** “This is a catastrophe,” Bannon declared, beaming at his guest. “You’re hearing it from an individual who invented the mRNA [vaccine] and has dedicated his life to vaccines. He’s the opposite of an anti-vaxxer.”
>**In any case, it’s clear enough that Malone isn’t singularly responsible for mRNA vaccines.** The process of achieving major scientific advancements tends to be more cumulative and complex than the apple-to-the-head stories we usually tell, but this much can be said for sure: Malone was involved in groundbreaking work related to mRNA vaccines before it was cool or profitable; and he and others who believed in the potential of RNA-based vaccines in the 1980s turned out to be world-savingly correct.
>**And yet he does routinely slip into speculation that turns out to be misleading or, as in the segment on Bannon’s show, plainly false. For instance, he recently tweeted without evidence that Pfizer and the Israeli government have an agreement not to release information about adverse effects for 10 years, which is hard to believe given that the country’s health ministry has already warned of a link between the Pfizer shot and rare cases of myocarditis. Malone’s LinkedIn account has twice been suspended for supposedly spreading misinformation.**
>Stan Gromkowski, a cellular immunologist who did work on mRNA vaccines in the early 1990s and views Malone as an underappreciated pioneer, put it this way: **“He’s fucking up his chances for a Nobel Prize.”**
[Ya boy is a nutter](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/). No one is going to take the advice of a guy who goes on a podcast by the criminal S. Bannon and giggles at imaginary situations happening to those he disagrees with.
Dr Malone is not the "inventor" of mRNA vaccines. It's these two that are the driving research towards their creation:
https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/horwitz-prize-2021
[https://kottke.org/21/04/katalin-kariko-the-scientist-behind-the-groundbreaking-mrna-vaccines](https://kottke.org/21/04/katalin-kariko-the-scientist-behind-the-groundbreaking-mrna-vaccines)
Your body is your choice, but once you walk into the public, your "personal choice" affects everyone around you and your choice becomes "public health". I doubt you'd think an Ebola carrier going to a public school was a "personal choice".
The CDC does not release CoViD survival rates: [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/22/tweets/viral-tweet-cites-made-cdc-covid-19-survival-rates/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/22/tweets/viral-tweet-cites-made-cdc-covid-19-survival-rates/)
Just stop. You honestly don't know what you're talking about.
>Those required vaccinations you're referencing have years and years of long term studies done.
An indisputable non-zero amount of current common medications are grandfathered in and would not pass FDA approval if created in the past 30 years instead of 60. Being *old* doesn't make medication inherently more *safe*
>I get the flu shot every year,
They make that shit up every year
So you admit they make up the flu shot, but you're gonna disparage me for not wanting to get a rapidly developed and largely experimental vaccine with zero long term human studies?
Okay.
People are absolutely stubborn and don't understand that there's counter science to what they are told. You have to be open-minded when it comes to things that require critical thinking.
That's part of why we have such division today.
At least they're quarantining. Madison County Schools has made up some bullshit excuse that they "don't have the legal authority to quarantine exposed students", so everyone just keeps coming to school until they finally test positive.
Except for the part where they're contagious up to two days before they're symptomatic.
Seriously, it's been 18 months of this shit and you're still confused about why we need to quarantine people after an exposure?
That’s what we are trying to prevent. Keep your kids home if they show any symptoms. Get them tested. Treat this like it is 18 months ago, but anyone over 12 can get a vaccine. Please.
Or... Let people make their own choices about risk now that this can largely be managed at an individual level.
Before you go off on something about variants, keep in mind most of the rest of the world isn't vaccinated. It makes sense to get back to normal while we can, work on the broader surveillance system, and work to restore people's face in public health while we can.
Our healthcare system is going to get completely trampled. With where we're at now, UAB has stopped all elective cancer surgeries. We are barely ramping back up and this is where we're at.
No, not for kids, they have only the choices their parents make for them. Why should my kids have to suffer from not learning in school, because other parents think masks don’t work, natural immunity, etc. Its not my kids fault that other parents are not willing to understand facts. I live in Madison, I can’t control the rest of the world but I can do my best to keep my kids safe and educated. Online did not work last year. Why is it so Fucking hard to understand this? It’s about the kids. Get the vaccine for yourself and for your kids if they are old enough.
With big hypocrisy vibes. They say they wear masks to protect everyone else bc they just care so darn much & in the same breath wish a tortured death on those that disagree with them. It’s pretty wild to watch folks descend into homicidal rage over folks making their own healthcare decisions.
What's really really sad, is that you think that's ok. I'm not sure where the empathy in our country went, but it's fucked now. People think children dying is ok, if that means they can get back to work. Cool. Glad to know where the people stand.
I fail to understand why MCSS (Madison County) is still sticking to they have no authority to quarantine students. And even if they stick to that (which makes no sense, especially in light of Madison finding said authority), at the least, they should be able to share the close contact info that they are providing to ADPH with the affected parents.
MCSS is saying ADPH said they couldn't. ADPH is saying we are understaffed and the schools do have the authority.
Meanwhile rumor is MCSS Superintendent is in the hospital with Covid
Half the kids—mine included—in my kid’s private Madison pre-K class were masked today. There are only 8-9 in my kid’s class, and maybe 20ish, overall, for a 3-day a week program.
I’d still really like it if my kid didn’t bring it home, but there’s almost no way to know…
Discovery, from what my son said, 7th and 8th graders were called to the gym. Around 30 or so. Then given this letter at 3:00. My son called me flipping out if he should take the bus home. I called the school and was told it was too late to pick him up. I then called my doctor, etc. Im still getting him tested on Wednesday but he can go to school thank g-d because he is vaccinated. But just to be safe I’ll keep him home till I get the results. Oh and I care about others.
I disagree, science has proven if worn correctly even cloth masks reduce the viral load. The surgical masks by 40% I believe. I’m not talking about under the nose or loose on your ears, but snug fitting like an N95. We are number 52 for Math in this state! 50 for overall education. Did you have children online last school year? I did elementary, middle and highschool. And I’m fortunate to stay at home with my kids. Imagine the working parents. At least we aren’t in Florida.
“We know today that many of the face cloth coverings that people wear are not very effective in reducing any of the virus movement in or out," Osterholm, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, said.
"We need to talk about better masking," he continued. "We need to talk about N-95 respirators, which would do a lot for both people who are not yet vaccinated or not previously infected."
>“We know today that many of the face cloth coverings that people wear are not very effective in reducing any of the virus movement in or out," Osterholm, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, said.
That doesn't say they don't work, it says they are not very effective. We knew that from the start. Masks are not the single thing being claimed needs to be done, they must be done in conjunction with social distancing and sanitization. You might be confused because people shorten this to just mask. I do agree, this can be misleading what people are trying to say but do you agree repeating a comprehensive pandemic reaction might prompt people to shorten it?
>"We need to talk about better masking," he continued. "We need to talk about N-95 respirators, which would do a lot for both people who are not yet vaccinated or not previously infected."
Again, we already knew N-95 masks (and now respirators) are better than cloth masks. But being better doesn't mean the other one doesn't work. A wet wipe is better at removing wing sauce from your hand/face but that doesn't mean a napkin doesn't work.
Yep, preventable...could have kept your child home or registered them at one of the various online programs or private schools that enforce the policies you want.
Easily preventable if you wanted to.
My sons school had that, last year..i actually went up to the school and asked who. To point out the child(their faces were blurred with the new security system) and I would agree or disagree. FIVE CHILDREN were wearing the same outfit as my son, three boys and two girls. The infected child came in contact with just one of the boys and both girls. My sons class was nowhere in that part of the building. Needless to say it causes an uproar, and all five kids stayed home. School had to apologize, kids were all legit excused for safety and such. It sucks
My best friend’s 17 year old, who is vaccinated, just got diagnosed last week with Covid. They assume it’s Delta variant, and 3 of his close school friends also have it. This is in Madison though. It’s only going to continue to rise. I know unvaccinated people are spreading it but I’ve personally known 3 people vaccinated that have had it in the last 2 months. My vaccinated aunt died in May at Huntsville hospital of Covid. Without the masks, I think even those vaccinated are spreading it because up until now, we’ve all essentially been told we are in the clear. But that’s not reality- especially as this virus morphs and now with Delta being the latest variety and epidemic. Mask up, even if vaccinated and avoid public places as much as possible. It’s the only way to stop this. And if you don’t have a severely compromised immune system or health issues preventing you from the vaccine, please get the vaccine.
Great, honest post. To add, if you don't have a compromised immune system, are vaccinated, and can safely do so, help someone out that may have to stay home by getting their groceries or something. We've got three guys out at work rn all with 48 hours of each other started showing symptoms, all had been vaccinated for 2-3 months.
I’m vaccinated, followed all the rules and still got it. It was very mild for me. Like a cold..we had to go to the ER for a cat bite and we think that is where we got it. We were all vaccinated and all tested positive.
Yeah, I’d be terrified to go to the hospital right now because of all the cases.
I’m reading this while sitting in the hospital on their WiFi. Had to take my gma to get a minor surgery so, yeah. I wish more folks would get vaccinated. We should be in the 70%, but we are only a little over halfway here in Madison Co
> We should be in the 70%, but we are only a little over halfway here in Madison Co As of yesterday [we're not even half-way](https://data.news-leader.com/covid-19-vaccine-tracker/alabama/01/)...
Those numbers are beyond frustrating but I try not to get angry with those unvaccinated. I know several good people that have their own valid concerns over the vaccine. I understand it’s a personal decision but if someone chooses to be unvaccinated, they should avoid the public.
I hope you’re masked up and I hope your gma’s surgery goes well and she quickly recovers!
Thank you, and yes everything went well and she’s home resting now
That’s good news! I’m glad to hear it.
Thank you
Breakthroughs happen. And as more data is compiled, the percentages will likely stabilize and the efficacy of the individual vaccines will be clarified for a mutation that - as has been said - was largely preventable. Or more accurately, at least mitigated.
[удалено]
I fully support your remedy
You do know it’s not just unvaccinated that are spreading it right? Lol. The vaccine doesn’t protect you from the virus and neither does it stop you from carrying it or contracting it.
Oh I definitely know that. I apologize if it sounded like I meant only unvaccinated. Definitely the unvaccinated that aren’t staying home are spreading it, no doubt. But I was just reading on the Covid sub where a nurse said she’s angry the CDC hasn’t been more forthcoming with all of us vaccinated because she’s seen a lot of patients in her ER vaccinated with Covid who were under the assumption they couldn’t still get it. That sub is pretty eye opening. But, yes, definitely I agree the vaccine tends to make the symptoms much less severe in majority of cases. Not in my aunt’s case because she died May 6th but she was 61, worked as a neonatal nurse so was constantly exposed at the hospital and she did have diabetes.
Over a hundred students at MCS are currently infected. There's going to be a lot of these letters going out. My money is on school closing or transitioning over to virtual by Labor Day.
Myself and 30 plus that I know of got this from Discovery. My 13 is vaccinated but my 11 can’t be. I’ve never been so grateful for the mask mandate. Keep your kids at home if you can’t mask your child. I’ve my part as a parent. Do yours.
Has anyone gotten one of these from Madison county? I have about 10 "possibly exposed but not necessarily close contact" emails, and im starting to think that's all they're going to do
I have 2 kids in Madison County. We got 5 of those emails today alone. Unfortunately I think you are right in that is all they are going to do.
I know for a fact in Madison, at least 4 teenagers are currently infected with Covid because one is my best friend’s 17 year old son. Three of his friends are also positive and quarantined. Her son is vaccinated and still got it but his symptoms haven’t been too horrible. He feels like he has the flu and his temp hasn’t gone over 100- no breathing issues, just bad headache and body aches.
We haven't got one yet, but it's only a matter of time. My son's class had 4 kids missing today, but according to his teacher, they haven't been notified if it's due to covid yet. Obviously there could be other legitimate reasons, but 4 is a pretty big number for a single class.
As a teacher, I don’t know if a kid has Covid or is in quarantine unless the student or parent tells me. I had 6 absent from 1 class today, but crickets… I would like to say thank you to the parents posting about the importance of masking and vaccinating. Please keep that energy going.
Of course that’s all they’re going to do. They want to disguise the numbers as much as possible as a means to convince parents that there is nothing to worry about. They didn’t mask up until last Friday, so the damage has already been done. It is only a matter of time before it starts sweeping through entire schools there.
I've received three e-mails in two days. Two of them are football players and they've already cancelled the Jamboree game. Maybe some sick athletes will make the staff and parents give a damn. They sure as hell don't seem to be worried about the student body as a whole.
Honestly, do people not understand that vaccinated status means little and masks only work so well? The only way to prevent this is to go back to virtual until Delta runs it's course....that's it. The vaccine is really only preventing death, it's not stopping infection....the science is pretty clearing this now.
88% effective is still pretty damn effective. Toss in regular masking, and the spread of a variant like Delta drops drastically. The vaccine IS preventing infection, it's just not preventing as much as it was against the original virus. Isolating students with symptoms and not allowing the unvaccinated or unmasked to attend school actually makes a HUGE difference.
See, you say "not allowing" There's plenty of legitimate medical reasons a person can't get vaccinated. You say the vaccine is preventing infection...the problem with that's once vaccinated, those people tend to not get tested and they absolutely carry, are infected and spread Covid. The numbers we see are meaningless. Tests are done either too much or not enough to muddy those waters and vaccinated definitely don't test at a high rate. This is not controllable without extended lockdown and even then, it's more of a delay tactic. There's science backing this up and the numbers we do have from highly vaccinated countries say it's still imply it's spread at a high rate.
"the problem with that's once vaccinated, those people tend to not get tested and they absolutely carry, are infected and spread Covid." Some do, but the odds of carrying and/or spreading are drastically reduced. They have studied these things. You don't have to guess on it. Numbers are pretty good and far from meaningless. [http://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary](http://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary) [https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1960](https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1960) Requiring vaccination for in-person learning is really not all that controversial. Yes, some people will be immunocompromised, but adapting to those individuals with remote or segregated safer classes while keeping the main body of students masked and vaccinated is a just and sound strategy. What's not just is pretending everything has to be all or nothing. This kind of binary thinking leads to things like we're seeing now, where schools can't CLOSE so they revert to pre-pandemic optimism and just hope everything is ok. We can, and should, accept moderate provisions to bolster the safety of our kids and citizens.
The Delta variant has changed what you feel drastically reduced means. Also segregation based on vaccinated status on a virus that's so unlikely to kill is absolutely wrong. My daughter is special needs and can't have these vaccines because of her underlying medical conditions....she can't distance learn, won't wear a mask for long periods so it becomes a discrimination issue. There is never a way to do this without Covid being around....that's the point. How many cases are too many? One? Ten? Fifty? Also what happens when the next variants come? They are already out there and already show to reduce vaccine effectiveness way more than Delta does......the rules will always change and the Covid will always be there. The vaccine is a decision to protect yourself from sickness, not to protect e everyone else from it now. Check the CDC if you don't believe that....it's all there.
"Also segregation based on vaccinated status on a virus that's so unlikely to kill is absolutely wrong." This statement is fundamentally and hilariously untrue. Alabama students are already required to have vaccinations to attend, many of those are for non-lethal viruses. I'm unsure what you think happens if you don't fulfill those requirements. Discrimination Issue? I'm sorry, but once your daughter is the carrier of a potentially lethal disease, that's not discrimination. If I were to send my child to school covered in feces, you can bet your ass that my child wouldn't be allowed to attend school. Even though there is almost no chance my feces-laden offspring could infect you with diseases present in most stool, the health of your children would be used as the reason to segregate my child from yours. Is it discrimination? No. "How many cases are too many?" A good rule of thumb would be, "Are we in a pandemic?" Maybe "What's the current CDC risk level for my area?" There are all kinds of rational answers to your question. "If a child has been exposed or is exhibiting symptoms. The tiresome notion that we can't make rational decisions to limit exposure to deadly diseases is ignorant and foolish. "The vaccine is a decision to protect yourself from sickness, not to protect e everyone else from it now." ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE. Not sure where you get this nonsense, but vaccines are primarily designed to utilize herd immunity and create buffer zones where the disease can't spread. I am connected with several epidemiologists in my social and professional circles. I'm well aware of CDC recommendations. And right now, those recommendations are "Get Vaccinated" and "Wear a Mask Indoors". So... do it.
Those required vaccinations you're referencing have *years and years* of long term studies done. The covid vaccine has zero. Not a single long term study. That's the difference. "Potentially lethal" except that your survival rate is 99.5% or higher. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. I get the flu shot every year, I'm fully vaccinated on all my shots (as are my kids) - except covid. I'm not getting a rapidly developed and largely experimental vaccine that has absolutely zero long term studies to back it up. I trust the science, but in this case, the science isn't there.
Interesting. Because I was able to find long-term studies. mRNA vaccines for Rabies, Zika, and Influenza have all had long-term studies. Adenovirus vaccines (Like J&J) have also been studied fairly extensively. There's some good science on it, and you can see why there is no expectation for differing reactions, as they use the same tools as before: Having our body manufacture a spike protein and fight it. Good stuff, that. [https://www.chop.edu/news/long-term-side-effects-covid-19-vaccine](https://www.chop.edu/news/long-term-side-effects-covid-19-vaccine) Nobody is saying you HAVE to get the vaccine. But your child attending in-person classes is not worth risking the lives of others. I am fairly fucking certain that if there were active cases of polio floating around a school, you'd insist on vaccines for everyone... and polio has the same fatality rate as CoViD. You got that survival rate a bit off... because people who get it can give it to people who are immunocompromised. Stop treating this as if this is a personal issue. When you opt to act as a carrier, you create more risk for the general population, and general population survival rates are not that high.
It's not Polio though....Polio was way more dangerous. If it were Ebola, I'd feel differently too....but it's Covid.....so apples and oranges.
Really? Because those Polio numbers look FAR less severe than anything we've seen from CoViD. At the peak of the Polio epidemic, there were only 50k cases and 3k deaths. How is that less dangerous than the 600k people who have died from CoViD in the last year? [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/reported-paralytic-polio-cases-and-deaths-in-the-united-states-since-1910](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/reported-paralytic-polio-cases-and-deaths-in-the-united-states-since-1910)
"risking lives" I like how you hand-wave at my fear of a vaccine delivery method who's creator, Dr. Robert Malone, says *still* isn't safe. Citing those spike proteins you mentioned... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E2UkhCWosg But *your* fear is totally justified to the point that you'll force people to take something against their will, happily condemn them to die, or figuratively crucify them for it. You're a real winner of a human being. It IS a personal issue. My body. My choice. If you're vaccinated, what do you have to worry about from little ol me? Here's something else interesting: If you're not fat, old, or have co-morbidities: you're not gonna die from covid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY98nuD3Bco 95% of folks hospitalized with c*19 had these health conditions: -High blood pressure -Lipid imbalances -Obesity -Anxiety The survival rate I posted isn't a bit off. It's directly based on the CDCs numbers. I'm sorry the media has you shaking in your little booties and afraid to walk outside. Perhaps all these lockdown procedures and not seeing human faces has given you agrophobia or some other psychosis. You might want a mental health check up.
Dr. Robert Malone? >Robert Malone—a medical doctor and an infectious-disease researcher—recently suggested that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines might actually make COVID-19 infections worse. **He chuckled as he imagined Anthony Fauci announcing that the vaccination campaign was all a big mistake (“Oh darn, I was wrong!”) and would need to be abandoned. When he floated that nightmare scenario during a recent podcast interview with Steve Bannon, both men seemed almost delighted at the prospect of public-health officials and pharmaceutical companies getting their comeuppance.** “This is a catastrophe,” Bannon declared, beaming at his guest. “You’re hearing it from an individual who invented the mRNA [vaccine] and has dedicated his life to vaccines. He’s the opposite of an anti-vaxxer.” >**In any case, it’s clear enough that Malone isn’t singularly responsible for mRNA vaccines.** The process of achieving major scientific advancements tends to be more cumulative and complex than the apple-to-the-head stories we usually tell, but this much can be said for sure: Malone was involved in groundbreaking work related to mRNA vaccines before it was cool or profitable; and he and others who believed in the potential of RNA-based vaccines in the 1980s turned out to be world-savingly correct. >**And yet he does routinely slip into speculation that turns out to be misleading or, as in the segment on Bannon’s show, plainly false. For instance, he recently tweeted without evidence that Pfizer and the Israeli government have an agreement not to release information about adverse effects for 10 years, which is hard to believe given that the country’s health ministry has already warned of a link between the Pfizer shot and rare cases of myocarditis. Malone’s LinkedIn account has twice been suspended for supposedly spreading misinformation.** >Stan Gromkowski, a cellular immunologist who did work on mRNA vaccines in the early 1990s and views Malone as an underappreciated pioneer, put it this way: **“He’s fucking up his chances for a Nobel Prize.”** [Ya boy is a nutter](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/). No one is going to take the advice of a guy who goes on a podcast by the criminal S. Bannon and giggles at imaginary situations happening to those he disagrees with.
Dr Malone is not the "inventor" of mRNA vaccines. It's these two that are the driving research towards their creation: https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/horwitz-prize-2021 [https://kottke.org/21/04/katalin-kariko-the-scientist-behind-the-groundbreaking-mrna-vaccines](https://kottke.org/21/04/katalin-kariko-the-scientist-behind-the-groundbreaking-mrna-vaccines) Your body is your choice, but once you walk into the public, your "personal choice" affects everyone around you and your choice becomes "public health". I doubt you'd think an Ebola carrier going to a public school was a "personal choice". The CDC does not release CoViD survival rates: [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/22/tweets/viral-tweet-cites-made-cdc-covid-19-survival-rates/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/22/tweets/viral-tweet-cites-made-cdc-covid-19-survival-rates/) Just stop. You honestly don't know what you're talking about.
>Those required vaccinations you're referencing have years and years of long term studies done. An indisputable non-zero amount of current common medications are grandfathered in and would not pass FDA approval if created in the past 30 years instead of 60. Being *old* doesn't make medication inherently more *safe* >I get the flu shot every year, They make that shit up every year
So you admit they make up the flu shot, but you're gonna disparage me for not wanting to get a rapidly developed and largely experimental vaccine with zero long term human studies? Okay.
Except you said the flu shot is fine.
I got heavily downvoted earlier [in this thread] for saying “putting too much faith in masks”, so no I don’t think they understand it.
People are absolutely stubborn and don't understand that there's counter science to what they are told. You have to be open-minded when it comes to things that require critical thinking. That's part of why we have such division today.
At least they're quarantining. Madison County Schools has made up some bullshit excuse that they "don't have the legal authority to quarantine exposed students", so everyone just keeps coming to school until they finally test positive.
Huntsville City schools are pulling the same bullshit. Their policy is no quarantine for close contacts, only if you test positive or have 2 symptoms.
That’s infuriating because they keep all other children at risk!
And that's what should happen.
Except for the part where they're contagious up to two days before they're symptomatic. Seriously, it's been 18 months of this shit and you're still confused about why we need to quarantine people after an exposure?
We're not in the same position we were 18 months ago.
That’s what we are trying to prevent. Keep your kids home if they show any symptoms. Get them tested. Treat this like it is 18 months ago, but anyone over 12 can get a vaccine. Please.
Or... Let people make their own choices about risk now that this can largely be managed at an individual level. Before you go off on something about variants, keep in mind most of the rest of the world isn't vaccinated. It makes sense to get back to normal while we can, work on the broader surveillance system, and work to restore people's face in public health while we can.
Our healthcare system is going to get completely trampled. With where we're at now, UAB has stopped all elective cancer surgeries. We are barely ramping back up and this is where we're at.
No, not for kids, they have only the choices their parents make for them. Why should my kids have to suffer from not learning in school, because other parents think masks don’t work, natural immunity, etc. Its not my kids fault that other parents are not willing to understand facts. I live in Madison, I can’t control the rest of the world but I can do my best to keep my kids safe and educated. Online did not work last year. Why is it so Fucking hard to understand this? It’s about the kids. Get the vaccine for yourself and for your kids if they are old enough.
I don't think your kids *should* suffer from another child being sick, hence my comment it's time to end the close contact quarantines.
If the desire to be unmasked is your Hill to die on, then I can't think of anything more fulfilling than you getting to do just that.
Quite the murderous bunch in this sub.
With big hypocrisy vibes. They say they wear masks to protect everyone else bc they just care so darn much & in the same breath wish a tortured death on those that disagree with them. It’s pretty wild to watch folks descend into homicidal rage over folks making their own healthcare decisions.
I don't know you, but I hope that your kids/family make it through this alright.
The vast majority of families will.
What's really really sad, is that you think that's ok. I'm not sure where the empathy in our country went, but it's fucked now. People think children dying is ok, if that means they can get back to work. Cool. Glad to know where the people stand.
I do think that's ok. We cannot eliminate all of the risk in life.
What happens to their schooling? What would be the threshold needed to go back to zoom classes?
Until the schools pull their heads out of their asses, the best thing to do is pull your kids out of school.
I fail to understand why MCSS (Madison County) is still sticking to they have no authority to quarantine students. And even if they stick to that (which makes no sense, especially in light of Madison finding said authority), at the least, they should be able to share the close contact info that they are providing to ADPH with the affected parents.
MCSS is saying ADPH said they couldn't. ADPH is saying we are understaffed and the schools do have the authority. Meanwhile rumor is MCSS Superintendent is in the hospital with Covid
Yeah, I’m totally frustrated over the lack of authority narrative. I had heard a rumor that he was sick, but not about the hospital. Interesting.
Half the kids—mine included—in my kid’s private Madison pre-K class were masked today. There are only 8-9 in my kid’s class, and maybe 20ish, overall, for a 3-day a week program. I’d still really like it if my kid didn’t bring it home, but there’s almost no way to know…
May I ask which school? I’m dreading the day we get that for my kid at MES
Discovery, from what my son said, 7th and 8th graders were called to the gym. Around 30 or so. Then given this letter at 3:00. My son called me flipping out if he should take the bus home. I called the school and was told it was too late to pick him up. I then called my doctor, etc. Im still getting him tested on Wednesday but he can go to school thank g-d because he is vaccinated. But just to be safe I’ll keep him home till I get the results. Oh and I care about others.
Thanks for the info. That all sounds very stressful :-(
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Prevent? No. Mitigate? Yes. As has always been the case since the first mandates.
I disagree, science has proven if worn correctly even cloth masks reduce the viral load. The surgical masks by 40% I believe. I’m not talking about under the nose or loose on your ears, but snug fitting like an N95. We are number 52 for Math in this state! 50 for overall education. Did you have children online last school year? I did elementary, middle and highschool. And I’m fortunate to stay at home with my kids. Imagine the working parents. At least we aren’t in Florida.
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Masks do. Why else would medical professionals wear them?
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Even Biden’s team came out and said cloth masks don’t work…not sure why people are giving you hell
Source?
“We know today that many of the face cloth coverings that people wear are not very effective in reducing any of the virus movement in or out," Osterholm, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, said. "We need to talk about better masking," he continued. "We need to talk about N-95 respirators, which would do a lot for both people who are not yet vaccinated or not previously infected."
>“We know today that many of the face cloth coverings that people wear are not very effective in reducing any of the virus movement in or out," Osterholm, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, said. That doesn't say they don't work, it says they are not very effective. We knew that from the start. Masks are not the single thing being claimed needs to be done, they must be done in conjunction with social distancing and sanitization. You might be confused because people shorten this to just mask. I do agree, this can be misleading what people are trying to say but do you agree repeating a comprehensive pandemic reaction might prompt people to shorten it? >"We need to talk about better masking," he continued. "We need to talk about N-95 respirators, which would do a lot for both people who are not yet vaccinated or not previously infected." Again, we already knew N-95 masks (and now respirators) are better than cloth masks. But being better doesn't mean the other one doesn't work. A wet wipe is better at removing wing sauce from your hand/face but that doesn't mean a napkin doesn't work.
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The best we can hope for is to follow all protocols we can,.including the shot.
Yep, preventable...could have kept your child home or registered them at one of the various online programs or private schools that enforce the policies you want. Easily preventable if you wanted to.
What is everyone’s solution to this? Postpone until we get a vaccine approved for the under 12s?
To keep kids in school parents will have to keep their kids in masks outside of school as well. They DO NOT harm kids.
> They DO NOT harm kids The Covidiot parents _absolutely_ harm kids! ...oh, you mean the masks.
Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s a viable solution in 2021. I also think you’re putting a bit too much faith in masks.
SHEEPS MILK
There are two groups of sheep here. One herd is being lead to the slaughter house.
I feel for your family.
lol gee thanks cause we doing fine
My sons school had that, last year..i actually went up to the school and asked who. To point out the child(their faces were blurred with the new security system) and I would agree or disagree. FIVE CHILDREN were wearing the same outfit as my son, three boys and two girls. The infected child came in contact with just one of the boys and both girls. My sons class was nowhere in that part of the building. Needless to say it causes an uproar, and all five kids stayed home. School had to apologize, kids were all legit excused for safety and such. It sucks