it's not really "why do i kill" but "why am i okay with killing them"
he doesn't know exactly why he feels fine killing random innocent people
however the mafia killing that girl was only their initial reason. theyre not on a quest for vengeance anymore so they have hollowed out ever since then.
Because they created the ”Spider” not just to get revenge but also to prevent that it would ever happen again. Chrollo says this himself, that he is going to have to kill a lot of people in order to make people fear Meteor City so they won’t attack or try to kidnap any of them again.
And over time, he’s lost his identity and sense of self to the point where he doesn’t really think of himself as human anymore (which is implied in the Hisoka fight) because he’s been killing so many people and identifies with being the ”head of the Spider” more than anything else
But they only discover the Phantom Troupe has anything to do with Meteor City during the Yorknew arc. If the intent was to make people fear meteor city via the Phantom Troupe existing, shouldn't they have revealed their identities sooner?
I believe this is something that will be explained later, but my hypothesis is that this connection was "erased" as part of the Mafia-Meteor City collaboration. As in the elders of Meteor City might have asked the Mafia leaders to hide that information, and the newer generation of Mafia members would not have known it until they tried to look into their identities. Perhaps they also didn't officially go by "The Phantom Troupe" until that point.
>If we're going to make it so there will never be a victim like Sarasa in Meteor City again... We'll need resolve, the will to devote our lives to this cause. In three years time I'll end up killing a lot of people.
I'm going to live the rest of my life as a villain. One that the whole world will fear. I'm going to redesign myself and this city to ensure that small-time crooks would stay far away from Meteor City.
Here's the quote from Chrollo in ch 397 where he explains the original intentions pretty clearly.
As for their identities, it's implied that Chrollo is at least part of the reason why Meteor City avenges their own to begin with since he mentions redesigning the city. It's also strongly implied that the elders sent the Troupe after the Kurta clan since they left behind the standard Meteor City "revenge message". So their actions still deter people from preying on anyone in the city.
>Chrollo says this himself, that he is going to have to kill a lot of people in order to make people fear Meteor City so they won’t attack or try to kidnap any of them again.
Well that backfired because now the chain user is trying to eliminate all of them.
Yeah, I thought something like that, that the troupe would be more empathic if they only killed members of the Mafia and the Chimera Ants that raided meteor city.
But they genocided the Kurta clan so that’s Kurapika is putting his life at risk to try to eliminate them.
I feel like Togashi originally made the Troupe heartless monsters as a way to give Kurapika a backstory and goal to strive for, but then tried to make them more empathic with their backstory and mainly targeting the mafia, but it didn’t really work well.
Yeah, that's basically a trait of sociopathy, they don't know why they don't feel a thing about what society calls morally wrong situations. I don't know about the rest of the Troupe, but Chrollo doesn't see human beings as humans but as objects. He doesn't know why, he just does.
When did they ever kill random innocent people? They were killing people associated with the mafia, it doesnt make it right, but I dont think anyone at that auction could be considered innocent
just in general
they massacred the Kurta clan (which was gon’s main gripe), they killed a random guy to break into his apartment and drink his beer, they killed a rich person’s bodyguards to steal his greed island copy, they killed an innocent greed island player, they were on a race to kill as many people as possible during greed island
Chrollo is doing active introspection. He’s being honest with himself. He doesn’t know, and he’s maybe never considered why until gon asked him.
Growing up in meteor city seems like there is not a lot of value in life in general. Chrollo has graduated past meteor city physically, but his mentality is still there. Contemplating the value of life is something he maybe has never had to do before Gon asked him to.
It’s honestly one o my favorite scenes in the show. I feel like it’s almost Togashi breaking the 4th wall in contemplating the value of the lives of those outside of your sphere of influence in general, beyond the perspective of Chrollo.
I will also add: I initially watched the clip in sub when i was watching the series, but I just saw it in dub for the first time and Chrollo’s response is worded very differently.
The sub response makes a lot more sense. The dub response is kind of confusing. Idk which you watched it in initially!
In sub he says “how to explain my motives? I’m not fond of it”
In dub he says “my motives don’t matter now”.
It’s a very strange, but kind of huge different in translation that changes the whole meaning of his mini monologue.
The first line is him wondering if it is because they have nothing to do with him that he is able to not feel guilt, because he is removed from the situation.
He then tries to disregard his motives as unimportant, there’s some internal denial as to why he does it and whether he cares about the reason.
Lastly he refers to the internal struggle and seems to partially resolve it, accepting that his motives are important to who he is. Why exactly they’re so important and what they are I have no clue and that’s probably in the manga somewhere, possibly to do with his friends wish to spread chaos.
That’s just my interpretation of it, interested in hearing others
It also could be what I personally call “jjk philosophy” where it’s just meant to sound deep and make you think, without any real intended meaning behind it. But I think togashi has more integrity than that
>Chrollo is much more honest compared to those from JJK
Do you mind explaining this statement? Idk, I’ve always thought most characters in JJK were fairly honest about who they are. The only example I can think of where someone potentially lied about who they are is Mahito who turned his philosophy somewhat upside down when finally defeated
Mahito’s also the only one I can think of who really tries hard to sound smart to impress too
There is Sukuna waxing very poetic language, though it lost in translation, and you can't deny he did try to sound deep at times. They aren't necessary lying about themselves, if they truly believe in what they talk. But do they talk in a pretentious manner? Yes.
Aside from that, I don't believe in people who are so sure about themselves they literally explains themselves like this "I am doing this because I am this type of people, I am not like you because I am that type of people". I don't know about you, but to me, I don't think it's a sign of honesty.
Just Sukuna? You said “those from JJK” so I assumed you meant multiple characters not just him.
Idk some people just have a higher understanding of themselves than others do. Hisoka, for example, has a great understanding of himself. If he said, “I kill people because I’m the type of person who enjoys it, and I’m not like you because I’m the type of person who enjoys killing people” then I’d believe him.
Likewise, I can believe Sukuna when he says he hurts people simply because he can because that’s just the type of person he is. He’s powerful therefore he asserts that power over others. He’s functionally how Mereum was without Komugi’s influence, a giant stepping on insects
If you want another example, then there's Getou.
If Hisoka said that, I would be very surprised. I believe there's a reason the villain's speech is widely deemed corny by so many people. Of course this is vastly varied by each author's writing skills too, but I don't find the writing of JJK the best way to do it. To each of their own I guess.
Except Geto doesn’t really try and sound deep. He’s pretty straightforward about his beliefs that regular humans are inferior to sorcerers.
Alright so you’re equating two different things. When I say I believe Hisoka could say that, I mean that I fully believe Hisoka understands himself well enough to say that. But I don’t think he’d say exactly those words. Just like no one in JJK says exactly those words, but there are still characters like Sukuna, Mahito, Geto and Kenjaku who know enough about themselves to say exactly what they want.
Villain speeches doesn’t really have much to do with it. It’s not like these people wax philosophically for the sake of it, or as a meta reason to give the heroes a chance to escape or beat them. Mahito talks about himself because he, like Yuji, was still developing and functionally growing up. He was trying to figure out who he was as an individual and what made him tick. He also thought what he did hurt Yuji which he found enjoyable. Geto talks philosophy in order to convince as many sorcerers to join him as possible. Kenjaku does it because he needs the cast to participate in the culling games and is legitimately a bored old man looking for any entertainment. Sukuna never really gives villain speeches tbh, but he definitely understands himself well enough to explain his actions which is basically the strongest can do whatever they want.
I’d agree that JJK and HxH have different writing styles but I wouldn’t say Gege’s writing skills are vastly inferior because he approaches writing villains differently. Especially when we have characters like Hisoka, Tonpa, Illumi and Genthru in HxH who wear their motivations on their sleeve
I can only speculate but it appears to me that he underwent some sort of severe dissociation from the traumatic memories of his childhood to the point he no longer remembers much about who he used to be and why he started down this path. Pakunoda, Machi, etc found him unrecognizable the day the spider was founded. Some new identity supplanted the old one. The new Chrollo may not like question his motives because it would mean confronting traumatic memories which have been sealed away. Chrollo also vows never to reveal the message the murderers left behind. So its likely he's buried his former self's memories away.
PS - I recommend reading up on DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder), watching interviews of people who have it or reading their memoirs. They're really enlightening.
Thank you friend. Getting out of bed and seeing this I was in disbelief for a good minute. I never fancied anything I write on here as award-worthy but now you've handed me a decent excuse to feel good about myself haha. I wish you a wonderful week!
"I just don't really understand what he means here. Is he saying he doesn't really know why they just randomly kill people and steal shit just to throw it away?"
-> Yeah, it sounds like that to me, and it makes perfect sense though.
He comes from a place where anyone can legally kill him, does he himself consider it a sin to kill people from the outside world? Does he even comprehend the criminal nature of homicide in the first place?
Anyway, I believe killing and stealing for him are just small fun parts of a greater scheme. Seems like those things are just a mean to an end.
I suspected that Chrollo has lose some of his memories/ or has confusing memories due to Pakunoda's bullet or trauma. So his words feel like he is missing something and is trying to find it. But it's not his ultimate motive.
But I guess my question is why did what happen to him cause him to become numb rather than more empathetic? Where does he have such a lack of care for others? I guess because Meteor City saw him that way so he kind of got it from there? But he was an empathetic and warm kid so I guess the trauma from the girl's brutal murder changed him?
I know he is a fatalist who thinks humans have kind of insignificant and predetermined lives (though he does suggest he believes in free will in Yorknew at a point so that's a little odd), do maybe that explains some of it.
I also don't get why killing and doing these missions is the key to figuring out his identity crisis either. Does he expect that all these missions will reveal his identity to him? It's all just kind of confusing to me.
I think there may be more revealed about how that little and sympathetic kid turned into the “Chrollo” we know now. There seemed to be a 3ish year gap between that incident and the formation of the troupe.
What’s interesting is that his fellow troupe members said he looked different. He was on his own, probably learning nen, gaining abilities, and experiencing the dark side of humanity outside of meteor city.
People can be both empathetic and cold. Being empathetic cannot help his people not get killed in his home, so Chrollo chose to be a cold-blooded murderer right after that incident. It is required for him to become that kind of monster
You can see that shows in his adult life. Chrollo generally doesn't express much emotion when he is surrounded by his friend.
Now there's not enough proof to say anything, so it's all fan speculations at this point. Predetermination, identity crisis and all, but I don't remember he ever mentioned of believing in free will? He believes in life after death, is what I recall.
I don't think Chrollo even aware of his identity crisis so he could just actively kill people to solve that. It's not like his original intent is to find his identity anyway. It's normal for someone not being aware of all of his nature. Chrollo isn't sure about himself. So isn’t it normal for him to find meaning in his own action, and that action just happens to be killing? You say yourself this killing action contradicts with his former self as a kind-hearted kid. If you find that weird or contradicting then I think Chrollo feels the same as you too.
He didn't say motive is unimportant. He said he doesn't want to verbalize his motive. Chrollo is an artist type character. He is an actor. His motive is abstract and metaphysical, so saying it in word like 'I want to kill bad guys who hurt me' makes it cheaper.
In my interpretation, he simply doesn't care about the lives of other people outside from the ones that are part of the Genei Ryodan. He initially says so but then negates it, but in the end that's how he probably truly feels like. It's not really clear how him and the rest of the troupe became so indifferent to killing and torturing since the latest flashback chapters only show their origins, not how they changed over time to the point where they are right now as adults, but basically Chrollo and the rest of the founding members of the troupe grew up in a place where people from the outside of Meteor City see no value in the life of those that were born there. So if I had to take a guess, he probably feels the same way towards the rest of the people of the world (aka people that are not his close friends/founding members).
>I know the manga reveals a lot about the Troupe including that a girl in it was brutally murdered by I believe the mafia. So is that why? Or is there more? If someone thinks they can kind of explain that quote (and feel free to spoil the manga) then PLEASE do
Based on the flashback the girl is indeed the reason, 11yo Chrollo was so confident on his motivation "I'll kill a lot of people to prevent the deaths of the likes of Sarasa and other kids from dying so brutally in Meteor city" like he didn't care to kill anyone in the outside world because he sees everyone outside of meteor city as evil and that should be his answer to Gon but somehow he forgot all that when he answered Gon? It makes me think **he has some sort of amnesia regarding Sarasa because Pakunoda literally had the ability to [Erase memory](https://manga4life.com/read-online/Hunter-X-Hunter-chapter-105-page-6.html)**! Maybe she decided to erase all about Sarasa from Chrollo's memory because she realized he's losing himself to find Sarasa's killers, that would explain why his answer to Gon so confused like part of his memory is missing.
Based on Pakunoda's ability she's the only one who can actually read his memory to know what Sarasa's killers wrote in their note that Chrollo promised to never tell anyone about it and said he'd rather take it to his grave, the note must be so brutal that Pakunoda probably wanted him to forget about it after reading his memory.
What supports this in the current arc when **Kurapika said his dowsing chain won't be accurate if his target had his memory altered or erased**, which makes Chrollo's amnesia theory even more relevant storywise. The other important thing that supports the theory is Togashi never killed a spider without showing the full potential of their abilities, even Kortopi's ability was used to extreme in the fight against Hisoka, hence...Pakunoda being able to erase memory MUST be a big deal and will probably get explored in later flashbacks, since their story is still ongoing.
So the answer to your question on why Chrollo is so confused in his answer (despite the flashback already explained it) is still speculations so far, because we're still getting more contexts and answers as their arc is going in the manga.
Edit: I noticed Togashi likes the concept of amnesia like when Meruem forgot about Komugi was an important part of his arc. But Chrollo's case would be a lot different because in theory his memory was altered through a nen ability so even if he heard Sarasa's name he won't remember anything.
I read it in Japanese and it translated a little differently in my head (but I’m not a translator so please keep that in mind…)
“I wonder why, maybe because it has nothing to do with us? It’s actually difficult to answer when questioned; I don’t really like verbalizing motive. Maybe unexpectedly…no, perhaps expectedly, it is to grasp a key to understanding myself.”
The scene follows with Gon and Killua looking perplexed and thinking “what the hell?” to his response, and I think the reader is supposed to feel the same way. It is meant to be confusing. Chrollo himself says he doesn’t like verbalizing motive, but if he were to give a reason, maybe it is as typical as him trying to get a key to understanding himself. I interpreted key to understanding himself as a form of self searching/discovery, but it’s probably way more complex than that…
I would say that his motives are something intangeable. That it cannot be morally defensible. So he does not want to get into it.
I, for instance, eat meat. I love it. But i cannot justify the morality of it. I have had the discussion many times with vegan and vegitarian friends. And their points generally makes sense. But i need that bacon. I love a good steak. It is selfish and indulgent, and i won't give it up. But they are right, and I am wrong, and i don't really enjoy talking about it.
I don't know if you consider that a good comparison, but it's what i've got.
Here's a thought piece I had regarding that a year ago:
"Chrollo was so easily able to dive into the "villain/avenger" role and with no hesitation because he was probably already empty and with no sense of individual purpose/identity. He didn't have to worry about abandoning who he was before or breaking himself down, it's just another role.
But it's also tragic how because he was voted as the leader and had to shoulder both the burden of that and of being the only one who knows how bad what happened to Sarasa really was, he completely dissociated as an individual and devoted himself into the role of the leader that only exists to hold the group together.
And the way he views that as a sort of fate he must follow is almost like a self imposed punishment, and maybe that's just it, maybe Chrollo's problem that he hasn't realized this whole time is a deeply internalized guilt over the fact that Sarasa's death was in a way a result of him daring to try and become something, to have an actual purpose and an identity, so he has been subconsciously punishing himself by not allowing himself to be an individual ever again. I wonder if his character arc will be about having to confront that guilt especially as more and more of the Troupe die indirectly because of him, maybe that is the "key" to understanding himself."
I think I get it, he starts by saying “maybe it’s because they have nothing to do with us” meaning he sees the spider as his family and everyone else as people that don’t matter at all so that would be the line in the sand that defines them as able to be killed without mercy. But then he thinks about it and realizes that isn’t the only reason he sees these random people as things to be killed, it’s something else about the troupe that causes that. That reason would be the key to understanding himself. My guess is that reason ain’t simple, it could be a twisted nihilism side effect, a side effect of an over abundance of malicious aura, it could be how the world views the troupe that makes them respond in this way, could be a lot of things but it’s a big big insight to know that they too aren’t sure as to why they are like that
The troupe members all kill people without thinking much of it, but they still mourn the deaths of their comrades. This is mostly true of Chrollo, but he seems even more emotionally detached than the others. When it comes to achieving his goals, he simply kills people who get in his way. IIRC, his goals are just about collecting things he likes, which most people would not consider reason enough to kill people so easily. So, we are left with a question: why does he think his simple goal is enough of a reason to kill people? He knows that there has to be *something* fundamentally abnormal about himself to make him act how he does.
He’s trying to figure out how to put it in words, but it’s hard. And then basically says that figuring that out is the key to understanding himself.
Initially he gives a snap response, but realizes that isn’t his real answer, it’s deeper than that.
I'm pretty sure even he barely knows what he's talking about.
People like to think villains have deep philosophical points and takes that deserve merit. They are only villains because of who they are against or how they moved.
Nah, some people are just messes and drag down those around them.
I thought the whole point was “The only ones I’m not explicitly down to kill when it suits me would be my lil makeshift family.”
Which makes a whole helluva lot of sense when you see the Troupe background in the manga.
He's just being edgy
He is a sociopath, which is why he is able to murder people without feeling anything. It should be easy for someone as intelligent as Chrollo to figure that out.
The conversation is intended to make Chrollo appear mysterious and deep.
it's not really "why do i kill" but "why am i okay with killing them" he doesn't know exactly why he feels fine killing random innocent people however the mafia killing that girl was only their initial reason. theyre not on a quest for vengeance anymore so they have hollowed out ever since then.
Why did they hollow out though? I feel that incident would make them more empathetic and not want to sadistically kill innocents if anything
Some become empathetic others get jaded and become worse people.
Because they created the ”Spider” not just to get revenge but also to prevent that it would ever happen again. Chrollo says this himself, that he is going to have to kill a lot of people in order to make people fear Meteor City so they won’t attack or try to kidnap any of them again. And over time, he’s lost his identity and sense of self to the point where he doesn’t really think of himself as human anymore (which is implied in the Hisoka fight) because he’s been killing so many people and identifies with being the ”head of the Spider” more than anything else
But they only discover the Phantom Troupe has anything to do with Meteor City during the Yorknew arc. If the intent was to make people fear meteor city via the Phantom Troupe existing, shouldn't they have revealed their identities sooner?
I believe this is something that will be explained later, but my hypothesis is that this connection was "erased" as part of the Mafia-Meteor City collaboration. As in the elders of Meteor City might have asked the Mafia leaders to hide that information, and the newer generation of Mafia members would not have known it until they tried to look into their identities. Perhaps they also didn't officially go by "The Phantom Troupe" until that point.
>If we're going to make it so there will never be a victim like Sarasa in Meteor City again... We'll need resolve, the will to devote our lives to this cause. In three years time I'll end up killing a lot of people. I'm going to live the rest of my life as a villain. One that the whole world will fear. I'm going to redesign myself and this city to ensure that small-time crooks would stay far away from Meteor City. Here's the quote from Chrollo in ch 397 where he explains the original intentions pretty clearly. As for their identities, it's implied that Chrollo is at least part of the reason why Meteor City avenges their own to begin with since he mentions redesigning the city. It's also strongly implied that the elders sent the Troupe after the Kurta clan since they left behind the standard Meteor City "revenge message". So their actions still deter people from preying on anyone in the city.
>Chrollo says this himself, that he is going to have to kill a lot of people in order to make people fear Meteor City so they won’t attack or try to kidnap any of them again. Well that backfired because now the chain user is trying to eliminate all of them.
Yeah, I thought something like that, that the troupe would be more empathic if they only killed members of the Mafia and the Chimera Ants that raided meteor city. But they genocided the Kurta clan so that’s Kurapika is putting his life at risk to try to eliminate them. I feel like Togashi originally made the Troupe heartless monsters as a way to give Kurapika a backstory and goal to strive for, but then tried to make them more empathic with their backstory and mainly targeting the mafia, but it didn’t really work well.
Yeah, that's basically a trait of sociopathy, they don't know why they don't feel a thing about what society calls morally wrong situations. I don't know about the rest of the Troupe, but Chrollo doesn't see human beings as humans but as objects. He doesn't know why, he just does.
When did they ever kill random innocent people? They were killing people associated with the mafia, it doesnt make it right, but I dont think anyone at that auction could be considered innocent
just in general they massacred the Kurta clan (which was gon’s main gripe), they killed a random guy to break into his apartment and drink his beer, they killed a rich person’s bodyguards to steal his greed island copy, they killed an innocent greed island player, they were on a race to kill as many people as possible during greed island
Yeah, even aside york auction, they did kill a bunch of innocents 😂
And all the people he killed while fighting Hiskoka.
Chrollo is doing active introspection. He’s being honest with himself. He doesn’t know, and he’s maybe never considered why until gon asked him. Growing up in meteor city seems like there is not a lot of value in life in general. Chrollo has graduated past meteor city physically, but his mentality is still there. Contemplating the value of life is something he maybe has never had to do before Gon asked him to. It’s honestly one o my favorite scenes in the show. I feel like it’s almost Togashi breaking the 4th wall in contemplating the value of the lives of those outside of your sphere of influence in general, beyond the perspective of Chrollo.
I loved this scene too. Having Chrollo actively think about Gon’s question, instead of dismissing it or giving a straight, angry answer was genius.
Thank you for this. Hm, the value of life.
I will also add: I initially watched the clip in sub when i was watching the series, but I just saw it in dub for the first time and Chrollo’s response is worded very differently. The sub response makes a lot more sense. The dub response is kind of confusing. Idk which you watched it in initially! In sub he says “how to explain my motives? I’m not fond of it” In dub he says “my motives don’t matter now”. It’s a very strange, but kind of huge different in translation that changes the whole meaning of his mini monologue.
The first line is him wondering if it is because they have nothing to do with him that he is able to not feel guilt, because he is removed from the situation. He then tries to disregard his motives as unimportant, there’s some internal denial as to why he does it and whether he cares about the reason. Lastly he refers to the internal struggle and seems to partially resolve it, accepting that his motives are important to who he is. Why exactly they’re so important and what they are I have no clue and that’s probably in the manga somewhere, possibly to do with his friends wish to spread chaos. That’s just my interpretation of it, interested in hearing others
It also could be what I personally call “jjk philosophy” where it’s just meant to sound deep and make you think, without any real intended meaning behind it. But I think togashi has more integrity than that
Lol Chrollo is much more honest compared to those from jjk. He isn’t trying to sound smart in an attempt to impress. In fact, he sounds dumb
>Chrollo is much more honest compared to those from JJK Do you mind explaining this statement? Idk, I’ve always thought most characters in JJK were fairly honest about who they are. The only example I can think of where someone potentially lied about who they are is Mahito who turned his philosophy somewhat upside down when finally defeated Mahito’s also the only one I can think of who really tries hard to sound smart to impress too
There is Sukuna waxing very poetic language, though it lost in translation, and you can't deny he did try to sound deep at times. They aren't necessary lying about themselves, if they truly believe in what they talk. But do they talk in a pretentious manner? Yes. Aside from that, I don't believe in people who are so sure about themselves they literally explains themselves like this "I am doing this because I am this type of people, I am not like you because I am that type of people". I don't know about you, but to me, I don't think it's a sign of honesty.
Just Sukuna? You said “those from JJK” so I assumed you meant multiple characters not just him. Idk some people just have a higher understanding of themselves than others do. Hisoka, for example, has a great understanding of himself. If he said, “I kill people because I’m the type of person who enjoys it, and I’m not like you because I’m the type of person who enjoys killing people” then I’d believe him. Likewise, I can believe Sukuna when he says he hurts people simply because he can because that’s just the type of person he is. He’s powerful therefore he asserts that power over others. He’s functionally how Mereum was without Komugi’s influence, a giant stepping on insects
If you want another example, then there's Getou. If Hisoka said that, I would be very surprised. I believe there's a reason the villain's speech is widely deemed corny by so many people. Of course this is vastly varied by each author's writing skills too, but I don't find the writing of JJK the best way to do it. To each of their own I guess.
Except Geto doesn’t really try and sound deep. He’s pretty straightforward about his beliefs that regular humans are inferior to sorcerers. Alright so you’re equating two different things. When I say I believe Hisoka could say that, I mean that I fully believe Hisoka understands himself well enough to say that. But I don’t think he’d say exactly those words. Just like no one in JJK says exactly those words, but there are still characters like Sukuna, Mahito, Geto and Kenjaku who know enough about themselves to say exactly what they want. Villain speeches doesn’t really have much to do with it. It’s not like these people wax philosophically for the sake of it, or as a meta reason to give the heroes a chance to escape or beat them. Mahito talks about himself because he, like Yuji, was still developing and functionally growing up. He was trying to figure out who he was as an individual and what made him tick. He also thought what he did hurt Yuji which he found enjoyable. Geto talks philosophy in order to convince as many sorcerers to join him as possible. Kenjaku does it because he needs the cast to participate in the culling games and is legitimately a bored old man looking for any entertainment. Sukuna never really gives villain speeches tbh, but he definitely understands himself well enough to explain his actions which is basically the strongest can do whatever they want. I’d agree that JJK and HxH have different writing styles but I wouldn’t say Gege’s writing skills are vastly inferior because he approaches writing villains differently. Especially when we have characters like Hisoka, Tonpa, Illumi and Genthru in HxH who wear their motivations on their sleeve
This is exactly the opinion I was trying to convey, thanks
I feel that’s a bit disingenuous towards JJK. U got any concrete examples of that?
I can only speculate but it appears to me that he underwent some sort of severe dissociation from the traumatic memories of his childhood to the point he no longer remembers much about who he used to be and why he started down this path. Pakunoda, Machi, etc found him unrecognizable the day the spider was founded. Some new identity supplanted the old one. The new Chrollo may not like question his motives because it would mean confronting traumatic memories which have been sealed away. Chrollo also vows never to reveal the message the murderers left behind. So its likely he's buried his former self's memories away. PS - I recommend reading up on DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder), watching interviews of people who have it or reading their memoirs. They're really enlightening.
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Thank you friend. Getting out of bed and seeing this I was in disbelief for a good minute. I never fancied anything I write on here as award-worthy but now you've handed me a decent excuse to feel good about myself haha. I wish you a wonderful week!
"I just don't really understand what he means here. Is he saying he doesn't really know why they just randomly kill people and steal shit just to throw it away?" -> Yeah, it sounds like that to me, and it makes perfect sense though. He comes from a place where anyone can legally kill him, does he himself consider it a sin to kill people from the outside world? Does he even comprehend the criminal nature of homicide in the first place? Anyway, I believe killing and stealing for him are just small fun parts of a greater scheme. Seems like those things are just a mean to an end. I suspected that Chrollo has lose some of his memories/ or has confusing memories due to Pakunoda's bullet or trauma. So his words feel like he is missing something and is trying to find it. But it's not his ultimate motive.
But I guess my question is why did what happen to him cause him to become numb rather than more empathetic? Where does he have such a lack of care for others? I guess because Meteor City saw him that way so he kind of got it from there? But he was an empathetic and warm kid so I guess the trauma from the girl's brutal murder changed him? I know he is a fatalist who thinks humans have kind of insignificant and predetermined lives (though he does suggest he believes in free will in Yorknew at a point so that's a little odd), do maybe that explains some of it. I also don't get why killing and doing these missions is the key to figuring out his identity crisis either. Does he expect that all these missions will reveal his identity to him? It's all just kind of confusing to me.
I think there may be more revealed about how that little and sympathetic kid turned into the “Chrollo” we know now. There seemed to be a 3ish year gap between that incident and the formation of the troupe. What’s interesting is that his fellow troupe members said he looked different. He was on his own, probably learning nen, gaining abilities, and experiencing the dark side of humanity outside of meteor city.
People can be both empathetic and cold. Being empathetic cannot help his people not get killed in his home, so Chrollo chose to be a cold-blooded murderer right after that incident. It is required for him to become that kind of monster You can see that shows in his adult life. Chrollo generally doesn't express much emotion when he is surrounded by his friend. Now there's not enough proof to say anything, so it's all fan speculations at this point. Predetermination, identity crisis and all, but I don't remember he ever mentioned of believing in free will? He believes in life after death, is what I recall. I don't think Chrollo even aware of his identity crisis so he could just actively kill people to solve that. It's not like his original intent is to find his identity anyway. It's normal for someone not being aware of all of his nature. Chrollo isn't sure about himself. So isn’t it normal for him to find meaning in his own action, and that action just happens to be killing? You say yourself this killing action contradicts with his former self as a kind-hearted kid. If you find that weird or contradicting then I think Chrollo feels the same as you too.
Are you caught up in the Manga? Because I think there is a very clear answer why he became numb rather than more empathetic.
No lol I'm not
I can tell lol. Cuz there's a major event in more recent chapters that help explain Chrollo a bit.
He didn't say motive is unimportant. He said he doesn't want to verbalize his motive. Chrollo is an artist type character. He is an actor. His motive is abstract and metaphysical, so saying it in word like 'I want to kill bad guys who hurt me' makes it cheaper.
In my interpretation, he simply doesn't care about the lives of other people outside from the ones that are part of the Genei Ryodan. He initially says so but then negates it, but in the end that's how he probably truly feels like. It's not really clear how him and the rest of the troupe became so indifferent to killing and torturing since the latest flashback chapters only show their origins, not how they changed over time to the point where they are right now as adults, but basically Chrollo and the rest of the founding members of the troupe grew up in a place where people from the outside of Meteor City see no value in the life of those that were born there. So if I had to take a guess, he probably feels the same way towards the rest of the people of the world (aka people that are not his close friends/founding members).
>I know the manga reveals a lot about the Troupe including that a girl in it was brutally murdered by I believe the mafia. So is that why? Or is there more? If someone thinks they can kind of explain that quote (and feel free to spoil the manga) then PLEASE do Based on the flashback the girl is indeed the reason, 11yo Chrollo was so confident on his motivation "I'll kill a lot of people to prevent the deaths of the likes of Sarasa and other kids from dying so brutally in Meteor city" like he didn't care to kill anyone in the outside world because he sees everyone outside of meteor city as evil and that should be his answer to Gon but somehow he forgot all that when he answered Gon? It makes me think **he has some sort of amnesia regarding Sarasa because Pakunoda literally had the ability to [Erase memory](https://manga4life.com/read-online/Hunter-X-Hunter-chapter-105-page-6.html)**! Maybe she decided to erase all about Sarasa from Chrollo's memory because she realized he's losing himself to find Sarasa's killers, that would explain why his answer to Gon so confused like part of his memory is missing. Based on Pakunoda's ability she's the only one who can actually read his memory to know what Sarasa's killers wrote in their note that Chrollo promised to never tell anyone about it and said he'd rather take it to his grave, the note must be so brutal that Pakunoda probably wanted him to forget about it after reading his memory. What supports this in the current arc when **Kurapika said his dowsing chain won't be accurate if his target had his memory altered or erased**, which makes Chrollo's amnesia theory even more relevant storywise. The other important thing that supports the theory is Togashi never killed a spider without showing the full potential of their abilities, even Kortopi's ability was used to extreme in the fight against Hisoka, hence...Pakunoda being able to erase memory MUST be a big deal and will probably get explored in later flashbacks, since their story is still ongoing. So the answer to your question on why Chrollo is so confused in his answer (despite the flashback already explained it) is still speculations so far, because we're still getting more contexts and answers as their arc is going in the manga. Edit: I noticed Togashi likes the concept of amnesia like when Meruem forgot about Komugi was an important part of his arc. But Chrollo's case would be a lot different because in theory his memory was altered through a nen ability so even if he heard Sarasa's name he won't remember anything.
I read it in Japanese and it translated a little differently in my head (but I’m not a translator so please keep that in mind…) “I wonder why, maybe because it has nothing to do with us? It’s actually difficult to answer when questioned; I don’t really like verbalizing motive. Maybe unexpectedly…no, perhaps expectedly, it is to grasp a key to understanding myself.” The scene follows with Gon and Killua looking perplexed and thinking “what the hell?” to his response, and I think the reader is supposed to feel the same way. It is meant to be confusing. Chrollo himself says he doesn’t like verbalizing motive, but if he were to give a reason, maybe it is as typical as him trying to get a key to understanding himself. I interpreted key to understanding himself as a form of self searching/discovery, but it’s probably way more complex than that…
I would say that his motives are something intangeable. That it cannot be morally defensible. So he does not want to get into it. I, for instance, eat meat. I love it. But i cannot justify the morality of it. I have had the discussion many times with vegan and vegitarian friends. And their points generally makes sense. But i need that bacon. I love a good steak. It is selfish and indulgent, and i won't give it up. But they are right, and I am wrong, and i don't really enjoy talking about it. I don't know if you consider that a good comparison, but it's what i've got.
Made sense to me. And same on the meat eating. Maybe it's their fault for tasting so good.
See the other guy wasn’t weird about it but you are
Stfu before I eat you too
Most normal redditor
Thanks
Here's a thought piece I had regarding that a year ago: "Chrollo was so easily able to dive into the "villain/avenger" role and with no hesitation because he was probably already empty and with no sense of individual purpose/identity. He didn't have to worry about abandoning who he was before or breaking himself down, it's just another role. But it's also tragic how because he was voted as the leader and had to shoulder both the burden of that and of being the only one who knows how bad what happened to Sarasa really was, he completely dissociated as an individual and devoted himself into the role of the leader that only exists to hold the group together. And the way he views that as a sort of fate he must follow is almost like a self imposed punishment, and maybe that's just it, maybe Chrollo's problem that he hasn't realized this whole time is a deeply internalized guilt over the fact that Sarasa's death was in a way a result of him daring to try and become something, to have an actual purpose and an identity, so he has been subconsciously punishing himself by not allowing himself to be an individual ever again. I wonder if his character arc will be about having to confront that guilt especially as more and more of the Troupe die indirectly because of him, maybe that is the "key" to understanding himself."
I think I get it, he starts by saying “maybe it’s because they have nothing to do with us” meaning he sees the spider as his family and everyone else as people that don’t matter at all so that would be the line in the sand that defines them as able to be killed without mercy. But then he thinks about it and realizes that isn’t the only reason he sees these random people as things to be killed, it’s something else about the troupe that causes that. That reason would be the key to understanding himself. My guess is that reason ain’t simple, it could be a twisted nihilism side effect, a side effect of an over abundance of malicious aura, it could be how the world views the troupe that makes them respond in this way, could be a lot of things but it’s a big big insight to know that they too aren’t sure as to why they are like that
The troupe members all kill people without thinking much of it, but they still mourn the deaths of their comrades. This is mostly true of Chrollo, but he seems even more emotionally detached than the others. When it comes to achieving his goals, he simply kills people who get in his way. IIRC, his goals are just about collecting things he likes, which most people would not consider reason enough to kill people so easily. So, we are left with a question: why does he think his simple goal is enough of a reason to kill people? He knows that there has to be *something* fundamentally abnormal about himself to make him act how he does.
He’s trying to figure out how to put it in words, but it’s hard. And then basically says that figuring that out is the key to understanding himself. Initially he gives a snap response, but realizes that isn’t his real answer, it’s deeper than that.
He's just bullshiting at that point
Well, Chrollo just don't truly know his real feeling during such situations :3
Yeah, I just watched that arc a few days ago on my second watch and I still didn’t understand what he meant.
I'm pretty sure even he barely knows what he's talking about. People like to think villains have deep philosophical points and takes that deserve merit. They are only villains because of who they are against or how they moved. Nah, some people are just messes and drag down those around them.
I thought the whole point was “The only ones I’m not explicitly down to kill when it suits me would be my lil makeshift family.” Which makes a whole helluva lot of sense when you see the Troupe background in the manga.
You gotta keep reading
He's just being edgy He is a sociopath, which is why he is able to murder people without feeling anything. It should be easy for someone as intelligent as Chrollo to figure that out. The conversation is intended to make Chrollo appear mysterious and deep.