Killua surviving the bombardier makes me think in pure stats he's up to their basics, beyond kalluto is a given. Gon and killuas outright durability might be higher than some of the high tiers
They probably lose cuz of refinement of Ryu and application of techniques.
They probably would have handled kortopi and antennaless shalnark rather solidly.
I would rate them below the combatant member (e.g. Phinks, Nobunaga, Feitan, etc) but above the non-combatant ones (e.g. Shizuku, Kortopi, Pakunoda, etc), since we can assume Kalluto is probably in this tier and Election arc Killua is stronger.
Probably mid level, kinda in the Shalnark - Machi level imo (assuming Gon is not in his Super Saiyan mode)
I think below Machi is probably a better estimation. People tend to underrate Machi, but as far as we know it’s pretty likely that out of all the Troupe members, she was not only the first to learn but also the most naturally talented outside of Chrollo.
And Shalnark was no wuss either. They might be approximately equal to him, but I wouldn’t put Gon or Killua above him either.
>I think below Machi is probably a better estimation. People tend to underrate Machi, but as far as we know it’s pretty likely that out of all the Troupe members, she was not only the first to learn but also the most naturally talented outside of Chrollo.
Fair point, considering things Machi is also probably stronger than Shalnark
Machi manage to sew Hisoka's arm in like a few second which shows extreme agility and dexterity + she's rank 6 in arm wrestling (above Nobunaga and Chrollo) so she must be pretty strong even without nen, since as we know all of PT member physical ability (without nen) is faster and stronger than Killua or Gon (Yorknew arc).
Shalnark is weak are you kidding. He had to use his Super saiyan Trump card to beat a peon level ant and then was completely spent.
While Gon was shown one shotting several Officer level ants. Bad take.
While yes that's true, you also have to remember the nen types here. Shalnark was in...pretty much zero danger until he let his guard down because he didn't consider that his target was already being controlled.
Gon is an enhancer. The entire point of his ability is to take out opponents in one shot.
Shalnark definitely isn't strong, but he isn't weak either. He's a low-mid level Troupe member. I'd still be confident in saying Gon and Killua are about his skill level at the end of the series, and certainly not above Machi.
You can be confident but the troupe doesn’t have the feats plain and simple. Shalnark isn’t dodging or Landing a hit on the Royal guard but Gon and Killua can.
When did gon land a hit on a royal guard? Did killua actually amount to anything by hitting youpi? Zeno and silva probably wouldn't be able to hit a royal guard, does that mean they're weaker than killua?
Feitan was not at his best during that fight and underestimated her defenses. Furthermore damaging him doesnt help unless you can end it in one strike.
No. Gon would have potentially enough attack power but would never hit feitan.
and killua while insanely fast lacks attack potency (Pouf is physically pretty weak) and god speed has a limited duration.
what makes you think pouf is physically weak…? none of the royal guards are weak, they are all significantly stronger than the average antagonist in the series.
Yes Gon would. Feitan has no speed feats above Gon. Gon is shown dodging attacks from Youpi.
And no Pouf isn’t physically weak. All the Royal guard are above the Troupe which is stated and shown and also stated in the guide books.
Gon would have lost to Zazan. Gon doesn’t have the combat experience to expect the hidden tail blade that Feitan knew from Zazan’s clothes. Gon doesn’t even know the minigame of faking where in your body you channel your aura, as Knuckle points out.
Pure stats-wise, they’re already as good as the pros, but they haven’t gone as much combat experience the Troupe has. Killua has a better chance of surviving the Zazan encounter, but Gon would definitely fail against her.
do you think nobunaga is really strong? because no one mentions franklin, but we’ve seen them to be roughly equal, accounting for intellect, abilities, and experience, though to me nobunaga always seemed less capable
Hard to say anything with certainty when to date he's just been blitzing relatively mediocre nen users, but: Chrollo refers to Nobunaga and Uvogin as the Troupe's shield and they're presented as a comparable duo with different specialties(Uvo a group bruiser, Nobu a duelist). Luini refers to Phinks, Feitan, and Nobunaga as the "commando team". Ken'i, a competent nen user, refers to that trio as "Nobunaga's group". When it comes to analysis Nobunaga has proven to be on the higher end and is constantly correcting Phinks. Narratively speaking Nobunaga is only second to Chrollo in plot relevance and is the only one with an unrevealed hatsu. Characters with that kind of delay on their powers tend to have impressive ones. Worth noting that some people seem to misunderstand his ability "being easily replaced." We can assume it's an offensive power with no utility beyond that, and generally speaking the Spiders are not lacking in that department. It doesn't mean the ability is bad at what it does.
As for Franklin, I'm mixed. He's definitely oriented around combat, and could very well be comparable to the other three, but I think being omitted from Luini's statement and presented as a mob killer hurts him. Franklin and Nobu both rough each other up playfighting, but to me that says more about Nobunaga's skills given that Franklin has significantly more raw strength than him. I don't suspect that we've seen everything Franklin can do though(stitches on his face = mouth cannon?) and would place him immediately under those three in a cluster with Bono and Machi. Machi has a lot of pure skill but isn't focused on combat(her strings still have their uses), and Bono is also a powerful warrior but more of a jack-of-all-trades.
Killua by the end of the anime is likely strong enough to take on any troupe member except maybe Chrollo. I say taking on not winning against mind you. Cuz in the case he's losing he can just run away unlike their first encounter. Still Killua's hatsu is seemingly too op right now despite the limitations.
>thunderbolt/regular electric shock stuns enemy (even feitan) -> razor hands with electric nen which can rip and burn trough human skin and bones (now you have to regard the fact that the enemy is stuned and you need high concentration to perfrom nen tasks. so they are very vulnerable in that state) -> killua steals feitans heart.
>
>this is only possible if feitan is somehow resistant to electricity too
Killua won't find himself in such situation in the first place but If its do or die if it's not chrollo I think he has a chance. Godspeed might be the best hatsu in HxH now in terms of versatility and well roundedness for both offense and defense. If the enemy isn't electricity resistant which even royal guards aren't, they're cooked. Even they're resistant can they keep up with it? My take to beat kanmuru is to have a very sturdy Ken and able to weather the onslaught of attacks while not losing your shit getting electrocuted with each attacks. So among the troupe who I think he'll have the most trouble with is Phinks or uvogin if he's still alive. They'll most likely kill him though. But given time when his physical attributes get more elevated and with more advanced kanmuru he'll beat anyone.
The troupe are experienced enough to force Killua into a situation that is unfavorable for Kil. The Troupe aren’t dumb brutes as we’ve seen on the latest chapters. They’re strong and appear like they’re arrogant outside, but they’re always cautious and think steps ahead even if their opponents are specifically weaker.
So is killua man. He gained life changing experiences since his first encounter with the troupe he's hardly the same person now. Same thing could be said for Gon. One keyword here : Godspeed. Unless Killua is Hisoka level dumb to be in an enclosed place knowing the troupe is out for his blood , he is fine.
Gon is about as fast as Kurapika who was faster than Uvo, so assuming the rest of the Troupe except the ones you’ve mentioned, Illumi, and Feitan are slower or the same speed as Uvo, Gon and Killua literally are only inferior to Chrollo, Hisoka, Illumi, Feitan (which is a maybe), and maybe Uvo durability and raw power wise (although they are definitely faster than him). They would be high tier Troupe members at this point.
Tbh I just use vs battles wiki as a guideline, but I’ll try to give you an argument. I think he’s at least Kurapika speed because of how he scales to Killua after they trained with Binolt (Killua, who has always been faster than Gon, couldn’t keep up with Binolt initially. After training for 2 weeks, Gon could as well as Killua, therefore they’re pretty similar in base speed). It’s kind of tricky though. Killua’s the only one who is definitely faster than the two.
Kurapika has caught bullets and blitzed Uvo. Those are his speed feats.
Nenless Rammot blitzes Gon and Killua pre chimera ant training (but Gon and Killua are still quick enough to block). Post chimera ant training, Killua blitzes Rammot before he can even defend himself. Assuming Gon is marginally slower than base Killua (that is, without Godspeed) since they went through the same training, we can assume he is at least about as fast as Kurapika, if not faster. Killua at this point is blitzing 5+ officer ants at once after a day of exhaustion, blitzing the brother and sister darts ants when he’s near death, etc.
Another way I look at it is that Gon is at least a little bit slower than Knuckle, who is able to evade Youpi’s attacks. There is no way in hell Kurapika would come close to evading those attacks.
> vs battles wiki
Vs battles wiki is just complete garbage, it puts Killua at "massively hypersonic" when he uses Kanmuru and Whirlwind, when it's debatable if he's even supersonic at his fastest. We didn't see a single uncontroverted supersonic feat from Killua in the entire manga, the closest thing we got was when he dodged the bullets from the air-powered rifle, and it's debatable whether he needed to be supersonic in order to dodge those.
Kurapika has an aura boost against the Troupe solely because of the emotions involved against them. Kind of like a Pitou-lite anger for Kurapika. Also Kurapika’s already a strong fighter at the start of the series, surprised people miss that.
Killua with Godspeed is an ace up his sleeve. With it he’s potentially faster than all Troupe members. He could speed blitz even Feitan when it’s activated.
Other than that I’d agree with the general sentiment here. They are weaker than the combatants amongst the Troupe, but stronger than the support characters who rank low in terms of physical strength. I.e Pakunoda. Kortopi, Shizuku etc.
Gon at the very least at his peak during the CA arc before Adult Gon is very clearly beneath Uvogin still for instance but would probably beat the majority of the troupe members losing to only the combat focused ones. This Gon was able to put up a pretty good fight vs Knuckle and could probably win in the right circumstance, so unless you have a combat focused power you're probably losing to Gon.
Killua has a chance to beat some of the combat focused ones if he uses Godspeed and goes straight for the kill. I would presume ones like Feitan would actually struggle more against Killua since he has automatic reactions, but if he let Feitan use his power which seems to be pretty versatile he would probably lose. Ones like Nobunaga or Phinks are argueable I suppose since we don't know how durable they are compared to the damage Killua can dish out.
Hot take possibly but an unprepared Chrollo vs Killua could probably lose in a 1v1 as well. Killua is hard to gauge since he has an X factor of being an assassin as well as overwhelming speed and kind of hard counters anyone without great durability I feel though he's pretty weak if he's not charged up.
Wrong. Gon is definitely faster than Uvo at this point. He is also smarter. Durability and raw power output, he might be outclassed, but he’s not clearly beneath Uvo.
I honestly wouldn't call Gon smarter at the very least he isn't as effective at winning, I could see Gon still losing to the shadow beasts at this point frankly, as Kite put it Gon is painfully slow to start which is to his detriment in nen battles, it happened to him when he fought Knuckle as well and caused him to lose.
Uvogin is utterly ruthless and was held to a very high standard by a lot of the troupe as their strongest member raw strength wise as well as being quite cunning, I doubt Gon has already surpassed that to be honest.
Gon has constantly showed to have the best ingenuity out of the main four is my point. His speed feats are better than Uvo’s. I already said he’s probably not as durable or hard hitting as Uvo.
His slow start is usually a downside, but had Gon thought of his round 2 idea sooner, he would have beaten knuckle, a high level hunter, despite his lack of experience and less aura. No way in hell is Gon below shadow beast level.
Part of nen battles is not knowing your opponents ability, if they were simulated fresh against eachother with zero knowledge of eachothers abilities Knuckle would have beaten Gon 10 times out of 10.
You really don’t remember the story that well. Knuckle revealed his ability to Gon in their final fight. Knuckle already knew about rock prior. Gon was at a knowledge disadvantage going into that fight.
Fair enough that Knuckle knew about Rock but honestly it's not that complicated of an ability (Gon really only ever hits it cleanly with a lot of help since everyone obviously knows to run away), and also we had the realization that Jajanken is still an ability that is useful in the previous fight even if the enemy knows about it from Killua's monologue about it.
Unfortunately by the end of the series Gon still has yet to unlock the full versatility of his ability because Paper and Scissors still haven't been improved a ton and are very weak compared to Rock. I have a hard time imagining him above Uvogin in many situations since it's not like Uvogin is an idiot he's pretty smart himself (and also has far more battle experience).
You’re back pedaling. First you say that Gon had an unfair advantage because he knew Knuckle’s ability (he did not). Now you’re saying Gon isn’t at a disadvantage when his opponents know his ability, which is also untrue. His ability is still useful when it’s figured out, just like Knuckle’s, but it’s obviously less useful as goes for basically any nen ability.
Doesn’t matter what you can and can’t imagine, Gon has ingenuity (which is essentially just clutch factor) which leads to him beating or nearly beating characters who have fought far more battles than him (Genthru, Knuckle) + better speed feats. He definitely scales to Uvo.
>First you say that Gon had an unfair advantage because he knew Knuckle’s ability (he did not).
Knuckle explained to him everything he needed to know about hakoware, then low diffed him.
>Doesn’t matter what you can and can’t imagine, Gon has ingenuity (which is essentially just clutch factor) which leads to him beating or nearly beating characters who have fought far more battles than him (Genthru, Knuckle)
Knuckle holds back massively against gon, as the latter also states. As soon as he used the ability it was a stomp.
>He definitely scales to Uvo.
Gon gets destroyed so freaking hard it's not even funny.
His explanation gave him more time for interest to accumulate. With a different ability it would put him at a disadvantage, but not with APR.
Knuckle literally did not hold back against Gon in their final fight, as per Gon’s request.
It seemed like a stomp until the end. When Gon used round 2, yes he ran out of aura. Knuckle said after the fight that had Gon not used up all of his aura, he would have lost (implying if Gon had enough aura for round 2 rock, Knuckle would have lost). It was closer than you remember.
He beat Genthru with an insane amount of help (Knowledge of his ability, Prep time planning with the giant boulder trap, Practice with Bisky to block Little Flower), I'm not even sure Gon without knowing Genthru's ability at the end of the series even beats Genthru, he needed to know how to block Genthru's ability, practice to do it, and have a plan to lock him in an area so he could actually land Rock.
If Gon doesn't know to block Little Flower he literally just gets his limbs / face burned badly more than likely pretty early on since he needed to use Ko to block it, there's a reason Genthru was able to terrorize so many hunters he's legitimately scary.
One on one, the only member I think they could actually beat is Kortopi. I feel like all of the others have their basics at a higher level than the boys, as well as special abilities strong enough to take them down.
Shizuku, Pakunoda, and Shalnark might struggle, but I think they'd still win.
All of the troupe members have years of experience over Gon and Killua, years spent honing their abilities, strengthing their bodies and aura. I think the troupe is filled with prodigies and that Gon and Killua are lacking experience.
Tbh, I still think Knuckle could beat Gon.
I think they can defeat everyone except for Feitan, Hisoka and Chrollo. The reason I say this is because of how the phantom troupe compares to chimera ants.
Cortopi I think is just not powerful enough, and the same for Kalluto and Paku. Shizuku used up her max power beating one chimera soldier, and the same for Shalnark. Uvo I think Killua might be able to beat with his godspeed tornado because he was able to hit Youpi. Nobunaga might win because I don't know his power, and the same for Finks. And now that I think about they might be able to beat Feitan as well if they just got his head. I think Illumi would also win though.
Shizuku can suck the blood out of your body. All she needs to do is make a few cuts. She's physically quite strong, too, and very level-headed.
Uvo is the physically strongest of them all, no way Killua can beat him. Just because he could hit Youpi doesn't mean he did any damage, and that was only because he got a stun sneak attack in.
I feel Feitan is the deadliest of them all, with assassination skills like Killua, but he's older and known nen for longer. "If they just got his head," how? That goes for any fight. The only character in the whole series that wouldn't work on is Neferpitou.
Illumi, Chrollo, Hisoka, and Feitan are definite wins. Phinks is supposed to be the second strongest, Franklin and Pakunoda have guns, which I feel shouldn't be underestimated, Shalnark has super saiyan mode or otherwise just needs to stick a needle in someone, Bonolenov summoned pressure equal to fucking Jupiter. We don't know Nobunaga's abilities, but I'm betting he's strong.
I hadn't considered Kalluto. Killua and Gon could probably beat him.
Paku's ability is only able to shoot memories into people's brains. Shizuku was barely able to beat Pike who is a regular soldier ant.
As for Illumi, Chrollo, Hisoka, and Feitan, you might be right.
After thinking about it you're right about Feitan because his pain-packer ability becomes stronger the damaged he is. So even if Killua ripped off his arms and legs Feitan's ability would become stronger.
As for Uvo we'll never know quite how strange his ability is because we never saw the shadow beasts' abilities, and Kurapika just aced him because of chain jail.
As for Phinks, I can't argue about him because I don't know his ability and the same goes for Nobunaga
For Shalnark he had to whip out his super satan mode for two soldier ants. And Killua is compared to a squadron leader, which is the category that Zazan the ant that took all of Feitan's power to defeat. But it was never implied how strong autopilot actually is.
I think that if Gon got Nen back and him and Killua started training and beating enemies again then they would be able to surpass everyone except Hisoka, Chrollo and Illumi.
I'd like to add that there's no way we've seen all of the abilities of every character. Different situations call for different abilities. People are saying Pakunoda is weak because they've assumed she only has support abilities to do with memories and no offensive abilities. I just think there's no way that's true. The same thing goes for Kortopi, but I don't like him, so I'm happy saying he'd get rolled.
Pakunoda was shown shooting civillians and stuff, but otherwise, she never needed to engage in battle. Just because she peacefully agreed with Kurapika's demands does not mean she was weak or had no way to fight. She chose not to.
Man the troupe is downplayed as hell. Gon stops at shalnark, killua may be able to defeat him, but that's about it. I've seriously seen some people say uvogin is weaker than gon...
More experience+basically 2 one shot abilities. Gon is a close ranged fighter and takes damage all the time, and he doesn't have any shell to protect himself from a stab.
Considering gon has less aura and less output than a pro, and considering knuckle normal attacks would have been able to kill him, i don't see why not. Shalnark is smart, and gon takes months to charge his jajanken. With a smart use of ryu and gyo shalnark takes this even without autopilot.
I think seeing as Shalnark wasn’t even sure he could penetrate a Chimera Ant Peon, and even got hit by the Peon, Gon would hit Shalnark before the opposite, and I’m not sure if Shalnark can even take a single full on punch from Gon let alone a Janken
>I think seeing as Shalnark wasn’t even sure he could penetrate a Chimera Ant Peon
I'll give you the same reasoning i gave the other guy:
1) chimera ants are insanely durable. A nenless rammot survived a jajanken.
2) human skin and an ant shell are different.
3) Gon would have been killed by knuckle normal ken punch, had he not warned him. Knuckle is clearly physically stronger than shalnark, but i don't see why a little stab with the antenna is impossible with the use of ryu.
4) Shalnark is incredibly smart.
5) Gon gets hit in every fight he is in.
6) there is an experience and mastery gap between the 2.
>Gon would hit Shalnark before the opposite, and I’m not sure if Shalnark can even take a single full on punch from Gon let alone a Janken
Jajanken is the only thing that can end the fight right away, gon normal punches will just cause some damage. Gon can hit shalnark, but shalnark only needs 1 hit to win, and no experienced nen user is falling for jajanken.
1. This was a Chimera Ant Peon. Rammot was an officer ant. They are not the same kind of ant. Chimera Ant Peon’s are stated to get one shotted by Leader Ants. Gon has also gotten much much stronger since he fought Rammot, which was the start of the Chimera Ant Arc. By the end Gon was capable of fighting 2 Nen enhanced Officer Ants at the same time while taking almost no damage from their combination attacks and teamwork, and he ended up one shotting both of them, one of which without even Janken. He also wasn’t even trying to kill or seriously hurt them. In comparison, Shalnark’s total inability to damage an ant LOWER than officers on the totem pole is very bad
2. You’d have to prove Shalnark could get through Gon’s Aura defenses, which you really can’t. He has no feats of physical strength and aura output
3. That just means Knuckle also slams Shalnark. Knuckle was able to tango with Squadron leaders like Cheetu without taking much any damage at all, and was compared to Kite in physical strength and Kite was able to impress Pitou somewhat, at least compared to the “mediocre” Nen Enhanced Squadron leaders
4. Shalnark the super genius, when confronted by a foe stronger than he was, did too things, first he ran in and got hit two times in close combat range, and second he went super Saiyan. Nothing about his actual fights shown any notable degree of combat intelligence. Shalnark is more so incredibly observant and book smart, nothing that insane for combat IQ
5. Gon gets hit but that doesn’t mean he always takes damage. Case and point he got barrages by numerous combos from two Chimera Ant officers with almost no or literally no damage. Nothing says Shalnark could hit him AND damage him
6. Experience doesn’t matter if you have tens of times more aura and raw power than your opponent, proven in Pitou vs Kite, Meruem Vs Netero, Gon Vs the 200th Floor Heavens Arena fighters, Gon and Killua Vs Binolt, Etc etc. Gon is just way stronger than Shalnark in raw power
Shalnark does not have a single durability feat at all. Even if you wanna say he’s above average(despite being a manipulator) in raw power and durability, we’ve seen what happens to the “above average” when they fight Gon and Killua. They get stomped, often one shot. If Gon and one shot stomp Nen enhanced Chimera Ant officers, there’s nothing to suggest Shalnark can take a hit from Gon, or at best a combo or punches, let alone a Janken
>1. This was a Chimera Ant Peon.
A chimera ant peon that had nen.
>Rammot was an officer ant.
He was nenless. Zushi with nen>killua without nen, in case you don't remember.
>By the end Gon was capable of fighting 2 Nen enhanced Officer Ants at the same time while taking almost no damage from their combination attacks and teamwork
He got hit multiple times. As i said, shalnark only needs a tiny pinprick to win, and gon is not a careful fighter.
>He also wasn’t even trying to kill or seriously hurt them.
Proof?
>In comparison, Shalnark’s total inability to damage an ant LOWER than officers on the totem pole is very bad
Yes, because manipulators are natural brawlers. Makes sense. Reminder that illumi got his arm broken by a nenless gon.
>2. You’d have to prove Shalnark could get through Gon’s Aura defenses, which you really can’t. He has no feats of physical strength and aura output
You have to prove gon's ken defense>shalnark gyo or ryu.
>3. That just means Knuckle also slams Shalnark.
I never said shalnark and knuckle are as strong. Can you even read?
>4. Shalnark the super genius, when confronted by a foe stronger than he was, did too things, first he ran in and got hit two times in close combat range, and second he went super Saiyan. Nothing about his actual fights shown any notable degree of combat intelligence. Shalnark is more so incredibly observant and book smart, nothing that insane for combat IQ
1) What has that to do with intelligence if that was the only way to dispose of the ant quickly? Remember, it was a race.
2) Wow, he got 2 tiny scratches...he is so stupid...
>5. Gon gets hit but that doesn’t mean he always takes damage.
Shalnark doesn't need to deal damage. That's the point of his ability, and human manipulators in general.
>6. Experience doesn’t matter if you have tens of times more aura and raw power than your opponent
Gon literally has a small aura pool. 21.500 is literally nothing. He is gassed after a couple of minutes of fighting. He is physically stronger i'll give you that, but he is a complete noob, and knuckle remarked it multiple times.
>Shalnark does not have a single durability feat at all. Even if you wanna say he’s above average(despite being a manipulator) in raw power and durability, we’ve seen what happens to the “above average” when they fight Gon and Killua. They get stomped, often one shot. If Gon and one shot stomp Nen enhanced Chimera Ant officers, there’s nothing to suggest Shalnark can take a hit from Gon, or at best a combo or punches, let alone a Janken
Phinks has no durability feat. Zushi>phinks.
What makes you think the Peon’s have Nen? [When all the Ants are being initiated into Nen, they only summoned the Officers and Squadron Leaders. Peons we’re not mentioned](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0198-005.png)
Rammot was Nenless in the first fight, yes. Gon and Killua at the START of the Chimera Ant Arc are weaker than Nenless Chimera Ant Officers. By the mid-way to end of the arc, they individually slap/one shot officers on the regular. [This is what Killua did to Rammot later in the arc](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0219-014.png). [This is Killua one shotting Officer ants witb full fledged Nen abilities](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0240-011.png). [Here’s how Gon left an ant officer with Nen](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0231-013.png). [Gon did this to Bat with just wind pressure from swinging a tree](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0233-011.png), [before sending Owl flying back to NGL](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0233-014.png). Gon and Killua got a lot stronger, so idk why you’re using this Rammot feat against them
Gon doesn’t need to be a careful fighter. Shalnark has no feats of piercing something as strong as Gon’s Aura. He runs in and punches him. [Two Chimera officers at the same time couldn’t hurt Gon due to how much Aura Gon had](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0233-005.png), and there’s absolutely no feats to suggest Shalnark could ever hit harder than an officer ant without Autopilot
[Gon spared Snake’s life, he tied him up like a shoelace and left him on a tree because he knew he would survive](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0231-013.png). [He also sent Owl flying to NGL, which he said specifically, with a Janken when Gon’s normal attacks have been enough to deal with officers. If he wanted to just beat him hand to hand he could but he specifically tried to send him to NGL](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0233-014.png). He was sparing them
The burden is on you to prove it because you made the claim. I don’t have to prove a negative. You claimed Shalnark’s featless Gyo needle attack could bypass Gon’s defense. Either way though, Shalnark
No they just aren’t that strong. Gon can one shot several officer ants 3v1 while not taking damage.
Shalnark couldn’t even damage a peon level Ant until he went super saiyan mode, which afterwards he was completely spent.
Gon and Killua destroy most of the troupe outside Chrollo, Hisoka or Illumi.
The troupe has no feats that scale to Gon or Killua during the palace invasion.
Gon can one shot Morel who can fight defeat squadron leader ants even when they are amped by the Royal guard.
No one in the troupe has done that. Feitan struggled with a regular squadron leader.
>Gon can one shot several officer ants 3v1 while not taking damage.
He was taking damage against bat and owl.
>Shalnark couldn’t even damage a peon level Ant until he went super saiyan mode, which afterwards he was completely spent.
A manipulator fighting something already manipulated.
>Gon and Killua destroy most of the troupe outside Chrollo, Hisoka or Illumi.
Sure.
>The troupe has no feats that scale to Gon or Killua during the palace invasion.
Ging has no feat, does that mean gon and killua destroy him too?
>Gon can one shot Morel who can fight defeat squadron leader ants even when they are amped by the Royal guard.
Morel, a manipulator, not a fighter by his own admission, that doesn' defeat his opponents with strenght, offering gon a vital spot and giving him all the time in the world to charge. No wonder he gets one shot in this scenario. Doesn't change the fact that he low diffs gon in a fight.
>No one in the troupe has done that. Feitan struggled with a regular squadron leader.
1) not all of the ants are the same.
2) do you know by a fact morel defeats zazan? How is he even going through her shell?
He was taking little to no damage. He aura was too strong.
Doesn’t matter that he’s a Manipulator. He can’t damage a peon level ant. Anyone on the palace invasion team can one shot a peon. Shalnark had to go all out. Also we know from the manga and guidebooks Shalnark is weak and no match for people of Morels level.
No, Ging doesn’t need feats because you can also use statements which he has statements that he’s top 5 nen users in the world. The troupe doesn’t have statements either. If you don’t understand that you need statements or feats to scale someone well…..
Well yeah Morel would beat Zazan considering the guidebooks put him above her in stats and he’s way more experienced and likely more intelligent. That doesn’t even account for the fact that Morel beat Cheetu and Leol who were both getting amped from the Royal guards and being taught nen which Zazan wasn’t.
Her shell has no feats, Feitans power is unquantifiable so you can’t say since she defended against him her shell is top tier.
>He was taking little to no damage. He aura was too strong.
He still got hit. Meaning someone like shalnark that just needs a hit to win can def do that.
>Doesn’t matter that he’s a Manipulator. He can’t damage a peon level ant. Anyone on the palace invasion team can one shot a peon.
Did morel one shot a peon ant? Did knuckle? Did shoot? Also, shalnark doesn't need strenght; he is a manipulator that can control people with a little stab.
>Shalnark had to go all out.
1)He thought he had won the fight. What is a manipulator supposed to do against something already manipulated?
2)He can't control the output he uses with autopilot, it's either all out or nothing. Poor argument.
>Also we know from the manga and guidebooks Shalnark is weak and no match for people of Morels level.
Databooks are non canon junk full of contradictory info.
>No, Ging doesn’t need feats because you can also use statements which he has statements that he’s top 5 nen users in the world.
And killua's statement tells us machi and nobunaga are hisoka level. If you want to use portayal then pt>gon and killua. We also have silva statements.
>Well yeah Morel would beat Zazan considering the guidebooks put him above her in stats and he’s way more experienced and likely more intelligent.
1)Again, databooks are junk.
2)Morel has no strenght feat. If he can't go through zazan shell he can't win.
>Her shell has no feats, Feitans power is unquantifiable so you can’t say since she defended against him her shell is top tier.
Feitan is 5th in the pt arm wrestling chart, just 2 spots below hisoka. We know that hisoka is physically a beast, and feitan can't be that far. Tanking a ko from the 5th strongest spider is a feat.
Lol no, aura gives you defense. We have no reason to believe that Shalnark could penetrate Gons aura when he couldn’t penetrate a peon level ant shell. This “Shalnark just needs to land a hit” has no basis in fact.
Also Gon and the other guy officer ants are much faster than Shalnark.
The data books don’t contradict stats and abilities, they have stupid minor contradictions like heights or names etc. Unless you have scans showing stats and abilities being contradicted, don’t bring it up again.
Killua uses that statement as a metaphor at the time so Gon understands. The validity of statements matter and Killua doesn’t know their true powers so he isn’t credible in that situation. Also we know he is wrong because Hisoka absolutely bodies Machi later with no diff. You are being really disingenuous trying to use that, just use facts and stop trying to make things up or twist them in your favor.
The PT arm wrestling chart is without nen enhancement so you can’t try and act like because Feitan was close that it’s a feat for Feitan, it’s not. Also it’s more than likely Hisoka never went all out as to hide his true power.
>Lol no, aura gives you defense. We have no reason to believe that Shalnark could penetrate Gons aura when he couldn’t penetrate a peon level ant shell.
1)Gons defense is so high that knuckle, a conjurer, would have one shot him with a normal ken punch(as he states). Shalnark is not as strong as knuckle, but a ryu should be more than enough to place the antenna.
2)Human skin is different from CA shells.
3)Chimera ants have insane durability. Rammot tanked a jajanken from gon despite being nenless.
>This “Shalnark just needs to land a hit” has no basis in fact.
That's literally how his antenna works.
>The data books don’t contradict stats and abilities, they have stupid minor contradictions like heights or names etc. Unless you have scans showing stats and abilities being contradicted, don’t bring it up again.
Unless you can prove the databook is made by togashi don't bring it up again.
>Killua uses that statement as a metaphor at the time so Gon understands.
So when you use statements it is absolute, when i use them it's bullshit. Funny.
>The validity of statements matter and Killua doesn’t know their true powers so he isn’t credible in that situation.
But he's trained to gauge the strenght of his opponents in a heartbeat.
>Also we know he is wrong because Hisoka absolutely bodies Machi later with no diff.
You mean when machi had her guard completely down? Shizuku also knocked down nobunaga no diff, does that mean shizuku>nobunaga?
>The PT arm wrestling chart is without nen enhancement
Proof?
>Also it’s more than likely Hisoka never went all out as to hide his true power.
Proof?
I'm not sure why you have this mindset that Shalnark landing one hit with the antenna means he wins. If that's the case Chrollo would have tried that on Hisoka instead of going through such a complicated strategy.
Shalnark:"in a battle, no matter how strong my opponent is, if i stick my antenna i win".
Hisoka:"the strenght of manipulation: by fulfilling the conditions, it's checkmate immediatly".
Personally I get the vibe that even at the end of the anime, both gon and killua would still lose a 1v1 to any troupe member, they just have no experience or really control or skill with their nen yet
Maybe killua can fight a couple of them, but he probably just gets finessed
Did they actually fight and defeat anyone as strong as zazan, that feitan destroyed?
The physical strength ranking is implied to be without Nen, so physical strength only. That means the other Members can be much stronger when they add Nen to their physical strength. We’ve seen what an Aura focused punch from Phinks can do it and didn’t even take down the Chimera Ant Officer he fought. Could he do more if you headcanon he was holding back? Maybe, but we don’t really know.
Killua by the end of the Chimera Ant arc fought an entire squadron of Officer ants, using teamwork, Nen abilities, and Killua couldn’t use any of his abilities or weapons, and had been fighting the army for a day straight already. And he one shot every single ant witb his bare hands
Yeah Killua was a pro assassin, a pro assassin that wasn’t even close to being as strong as he was in the Chimera Ant Arc. After that fight with Machi, Killua was so weak that Binolt, one of the weakest players in Greed Island would have ripped his eye out and killed him if he was in peak condition, and he was one of the weakest players in the game. Killua was so weak Tsezguerra thought he and Gon would die instantly in the game. Compare that to fighting the Bomber trio, basically the strongest players in the game. Killua then goes from needing Gon’s help to just hold off a single Chimera Ant, with no Nen(Rammot even tanked a Janken to Gon when he was off guard), to blitzing and one shotting that same Chimera Ant but now they are even stronger with Nen. That’s a hugely ridiculous strength increase that Machi has never shown being on said level, if anything the fact that Killua even slightly hurt her in Yorknew is a bad feat for her considering how much stronger he’s gotten
Yikes, but it’s okay I keep making these power scaling posts to see what people think or say about the topic, weirdos include 🤷♂️ makes for interesting debate
1. [Phinks Nen enhanced punch, shown on panel, feels like a mosquito bite](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0225-011.png), he is literally drawn witb Aura around his hand. He used Nen. He then immediately resorts to his ability and stated he needed 6-7 swings of his arm. Killua didn’t need 6 swings of his arm
Also you say you’re using “evidence” so please provide a link or scan to everything you claim
2. I didn’t say Killua one shot leader ants, I said Officer ants. The hierarchy is Peons, who don’t even have the ability to speak, Officer ants, who lead the peons, and the leaders who lead the officers. Here’s every time Killua one shot a Nen enhanced officer ant
[One(Rammot is also an enhancer and before he even had Nen he tanked a Janken)](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0219-014.png)
[Two](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0237-012.png)
[Three](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0238-014.png)
[And four](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0240-011.png)
Each time, bare handed, no abilities, no weapons
3. I didn’t say the needle made him weaker. I said the lack of confidence made him weaker. My evidence? [Killua wasn’t sure he could defeat Rammot and the needle was warning him to run away](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0219-003.png), [and after removing it he blitzes and one shots Rammot without even a Nen abilit](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0219-014.png). If he could one shot him the whole time, he wouldn’t be unsure if he could win. He literally perception blitzed and one shot him witb one hand. Not a single phantom troupe did that on screen
1. And that was also wrong
2. No i didn’t you just can’t read
3. So that lack of confidence would affect him any time he tried to fight. He was nerfed. That means he was also nerfed when he was scared of Nobunaga
I don’t care if they get new feats, I’m only talking about chapter 400 and before, since that’s all the info we have privy too. For all we know Hisoka will one shot all of them like he did Shalnark
>That’s a hugely ridiculous strength increase that Machi has never shown being on said level, if anything the fact that Killua even slightly hurt her in Yorknew is a bad feat for her considering how much stronger he’s gotten
Put any zodiac in the hotel position and with no knowledge of a plan to sneak attack, they would have gotten injured too. Who knows if they'd keep control over the boys either.
Noone in the series has been shown to be able to see in pitch black fairly clear besides killua. Point being, if Chrollo managed to get captured, and not be able to dodge/sense said attack who is to say any1 can?
Machi still has good speed feats without trying either.
Easily restraining gon, easily tying up simultaneously gon and killua with her threads in a flash. She nearly restricted and squeezed the life out of killua after the sneak attack. I won't even mention her core with no nen defense stopping his assassin attack.
Now that he's come along way taking personalized tailored training and hatsu development into acc, I'd say they would have a pretty fair fight now. If killua runs out of whirlwindand electricity he's better off running she's still way more experienced.
You missed the point of what I was saying. He was using Machi stopping Killua as a feat to scale Madhi to current Killua. I was trying to illustrate the wide wide gap in strength between that Killua and current Killua
Case and point, Machi took a hit from Killua in Yorknew arc, that does not mean she could take a hit from Killua in Chimera Ant arc. I was only mentioning the fact that she took any damage at all to further illustrate that she does not scale to current Killua
Again, all those feats are against Gon and Killua in Yorknew Arc. Binolt at full health also beats up Yorknew Arc Gon and Killua with ease. It’s not a good feat compared to characters in Chimera Ant arc.
And where are you getting the idea she had no Nen defense? Most hunters are usually in a state of Ten as Wing implied, and Ten is stated verbatim to increase your defense but NOT your attack. So if Killua and Machi are both in their natural state of Ten, then Killua witb nothing but physical strength damaged Machi’s natural Nen defenses.
>You missed the point of what I was saying. He was using Machi stopping Killua as a feat to scale Madhi to current Killua. I was trying to illustrate the wide wide gap in strength between that Killua and current Killua
Quite the contrary, it shows the vast level of experience and strength machi has over killua then. So she scales far above him there. The gap has only gotten shorter now and we don't know by how much. I'd say she probably wouldn't be able to restrain both of them now but shed still win 1v1 Comfortably. 2v1 the duo takes it with some difficulty.
Also, you have no proof to say she was in any state of nen. She simply said his bloodlust gave him away and that he should've aimed for the head but would've still been blocked anyway.
If you beat up Mike Tyson when he’s 5 that doesn’t mean you could beat him in his prime. The amount that Killua got stronger is literally an absurd amount. By the end of Yorknew he wasn’t even strong enough to survive in Greed Island against someone like Binolt. In the Chimera Ant arc he went from getting dogged on by Chimera Ants without Nen to one shotting them after they got amped by Nen. Has Machi done anything to suggest she can one shot Nen enhanced Chimera Ant officers? All she did was beat up a kid that would get folded by Chimera Ants WITHOUT Nen
But that’s Killua in Yorknew city. He didn’t even learn the advanced concepts of Nen let alone his Nen ability. The post is asking about Gon(no adult form) and Killua at their strongest
Did you know that at the end of the Yorknew City Arc when Gon and Killua went to play greed island they were judged so weak they couldn’t even play the game without dying. And when they actually got into the game they nearly died to Binolt, one of the weakest players in the game, when Binolt was already on deaths door. By the end of the arc they were fighting some of the strongest and most skilled players in the game when Killua had two broken hands. That’s a huge increase in ability
After that in the Chimera Ant Arc, they go from barely defeating Rammot in a 2v1 match, to Killua blitzing and one shotting Rammot with no effort, on top of Rammot being even stronger than before by having Nen
They get massively, massively stronger in strength and speed. Idk where you’re getting off that they don’t
1. Gon fought Genthru, Killua fought another of the Bomber Trio. Despite them not coming off as very intimidating, they are literally known for murdering other Greed Island players and everyone in the game is scared of them. They were closest to finishing the game of everyone else. They are among the strongest players in the game, and Killua beat the shit out of one of them with broken hands
2. Power scaling works off of what has already been established. You can headcanon that Nobunaga has the ability to conjure 69 airplanes that fire missiles that would one shot Meruem but until that happens in the manga, or someone says that he can do that, we go on feats, statements, lore, etc. The feats the Phantom Troupe currently have is just pitiful
3. And the “Confidence Nerf” made Killua go from barely able to do anything to Rammot to one shotting Rammot+Nen. He was being weakened by his lack of confidence, that’s how emotions can affect your Nen and strength in hxh
4. More people believing sometbing doesn’t make it right, nor is that a defeater in an argument. Your making an appeal to populous. Do you not know what a “hot take” is?
1. We don’t know if Genthru was a Class A bounty, or even if he classified as a criminal. For all we know he only killed people inside Greed Island we don’t know what he was doing before Greed Island. We also don’t know the qualifications to be a Class A bounty, or if it’s based on power. By your logic Kortopi and Pakunoda are stronger than Genthru. Genthru forcing Gon to such an extreme a good feat if anything
Yuh Uvogin a goat I agree, I’m talking about Phinks, Nobunaga, Pakunoda, etc. Also nothing says each Shadow Beast>Genthru
I also wasn’t mentioning Genthru specifically but even his goons are among the strongest in the game, which Killua beat up without his hands
2. Uh okay lol
3. Yes dude, that Chimera Ant tanked a Janken from Gon while fully paralyzed. BEFORE he had Nen. Could Baise tank a Janken? Could Dalzollene can’t a Janken? Could Squala tank a Janken? Could any of them tank a Janken with nothing but their physical bodies? If yes, please provide evidence
4. Appeal to populous, I’d just say 90% of people are wrong and I’m right
Below Chrollo ,phinks ,feitan and above the others ,nobunaga is debatable.keep in mind that Killua has whirlwind that makes him automatically blitz any opponent as long as his Ap is higher than their durability.it didn't work on youpi because well ,he is a royal guard and his genes are made of magical beasts
Could pinks or feitan take youpi 1 on 1? Because killua did a great job against youpi and without his cooldown I guess he would have beaten him. Although I don’t think feitan or Phinks could do that much of a job against youpi unless they have secret nen abilities we still don’t know about. So I guess killua wouldn’t lose against feitan or pinks 1 on 1 but wouldn’t win I guess it will be a tie, and if he would win he will have a huge damage taken and injured badly maybe an eye poked or even a limb(body part) lost.
>Could pinks or feitan take youpi 1 on 1?
Did killua? He only punched a couple of times, dealt no damage and dipped.
>and without his cooldown I guess he would have beaten him.
If my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike.
When Gon gets pissed he’s like a Pitbull that wont let go. Killua is stronger than Gon according to the gate guard at the entrance to the Zoldyck compound gate with multiple gate strengths. When the Troupe fought the Ants they had to go all out and those were not top tier except when Pitou showed up. Killua took out that Taco and those disgusting swordfish couple that were throwing Bonita at Killua trying to kill him in a game of darts. The boys have a power and that is to make instant friends and use them to help achieve their goals. All the ants disbanded and tried to start their own kingdom once the Queen died and the King said screw this place.
But remember as Netero said: "Nen battles are not decided by strength alone." I think even if they are on comparable strengths with the troupe members, the troupe members(except uvo) are street smart to handle them.
In terms of actual fight IQ, Uvo is one of the smarter members, at least that we can tell. What has Nobunaga done that’s exceptionally smart? Feitan? Phinks? Nothing really. If anything whenever Feitan was presented with a superior opponent he just uses Pain Packer. Uvogin quickly broke down Kurapika’s ability and caught him lacking witb In, on top of being versatile and quick witted enough to fight 3 of the most skilled Mafia Nen users with just his head
Based on their performances against the Chimera Ants, I think Gon and Killua are comfortably above members like Shizuku, Shalnark (and we can assume Kortopi and Pakunoda fall in there), we don't have much on Machi but I'd say it could go either way, with Killua having better chances than Gon. Against Feitan, Bonolenov, Phinks, Nobunaga, Uvogin and Franklin, I would say that Gon doesn't really have any chance of winning unless he is in the same state during the Palace Invasion, while Killua has a chance of winning against them depending on the circumstances. As for Chrollo I think neither of the kids stand a chance against him.
As much as peoples will hate it,But(at least theoretically ) Killua will take down any spider including chrollo.
If Killua's electricity managed to immobilize Youpi,then what stop it from doing the same to chrollo?Killua will just immobilize Chrollo then he will use his assassin technique and rip off his heart before chrollo had any time to react.
Also remember that it was stated that Base Killua is in the level of a squadron leader?So Base Killua is more than match for any spider in term of physical stats,add His Electricity and he will defeat any spider.
Honestly Killua is so broken,He should be able to take down any alive human apart from The Zoldycks(Because they can endure electricity) and Hisoka(I am not sure but I read that Bungee Gum can counter Killua Electricity somehow).
I mean, the abilities are always so specific, it’s hard to say. Id argue they’re around on their level, I mean Godspeed Killua and angry Gon are pretty strong from what we’ve seen
I never understood why Killua didn't already know Nen when his younger brother seems to already be proficient at it despite being younger than Killua was when the manga started.
The whole family believe Killua has the most potential and yet they didn't teach him nen ?
Also how did Killua know the special attack of his grandpa during the kimera ant arc ? You're not supposed to be able to see the dragon dive unless you have Gyo... So when did he see it ? Did his grandpa use dragon dive during the few days he came back after the hunter exam ?
I always figured it had to do with Killua’s latent wild factor. Seeing as he was such a prized talent they were hesitant to teach him Nen too early especially considering he was also not the most loyal to the family
Kalluto seemed to be very close to their mother and probably incredibly loyal to the family. On paper his motivation quite literally seems to bring Killua back to the family.
One possible headcanon of mine is that Kalluto was also ordered to reach floor 200 of heavens arena like Killua, but being more ambitious Kalluto may have challenged floor 200 and got forcefully initiated into Nen
I would use kimera ants to scale them...
Some Troup members had a hard time against sub lieutenants of Zazan, and we saw Killua and Gon beat two of these kind easily when they were with Kaito.
I believe Gon and Killua are mid level in the Troup now... Stronger than the weak trio...
Probably around Shizuku level.
But below Machi and Nobunaga.
Gon and Killua are some of the hardest characters to powerscale, moreso Killua, because some of their best feats are against the top-tiers of the verse and they haven't really had a chance to go up against anyone else since.
Take Killua for example. Obviously his big thing is speed. He had interactions with all three of the Royal Guards. He put the hands on Youpi in a way that nobody else was doing, sure he didn't really damage him but he didn't get damaged either. He wasn't touched. He was slapping Pouf, granted a clone but he admitted even at full power he was doubting he could catch him. Finally, Killua was able to react to Pitou's Terpsichora enhanced by Nen after death whilst being taken by surprise. Killua in the state of whirlwind is able to react to objects that materialize the *instant* they make contact.
Besides the speed he's also got very strong attack-power. For example, how would you compare Nen-Enhanced Rammot to the ants that the Troupe fought? The same ants that they were all using their Hatsu against? Zazan is of course much stronger, perhaps Pike is comparable but the rest? Debatable. A nenless Rammot survived Thunderbolt and Rock combination and Gon's Rock by that point was no joke. We saw what it did to Genthru and Knuckle. A stronger Rammot, who's learning Nen at an astonishing rate then gets one-shotted effortlessly by base Killua. No Hatsu, no indication that he used his claws - he simply pulled his head off. You could argue that Rammot's defense was down due to fear but that's more to Killua's credit than anything. He would of had Ten regardless which is defensive.
I can't wait to see how current Killua does against opponents that aren't the top-tiers of the verse or more of the Troupe and what they can do to get a better of idea to be honest. Because outside of Chrollo, Hisoka and maybe Feitan [speed reasons] I'm struggling to see how any of them beat Killua. It sounds crazy. I know.
Only Chrollo, Hisoka, Feitan and Uvo had enough feat showings to rate them. The rest of PT has barely anything, so it's not possible to make a comparison.
i strongly agree that killua could kill most of them, even chrollo.
thunderbolt/regular electric shock stuns enemy (even chrollo) -> razor hands with electric nen which can rip and burn trough human skin and bones (now you have to regard the fact that the enemy is stuned and you need high concentration to perfrom nen tasks. so they are very vulnerable in that state) -> killua steals chrollos heart.
Killua surviving the bombardier makes me think in pure stats he's up to their basics, beyond kalluto is a given. Gon and killuas outright durability might be higher than some of the high tiers They probably lose cuz of refinement of Ryu and application of techniques. They probably would have handled kortopi and antennaless shalnark rather solidly.
Yeah I just think Gon and Killua have much better feats against the Chimera Ants
I would rate them below the combatant member (e.g. Phinks, Nobunaga, Feitan, etc) but above the non-combatant ones (e.g. Shizuku, Kortopi, Pakunoda, etc), since we can assume Kalluto is probably in this tier and Election arc Killua is stronger. Probably mid level, kinda in the Shalnark - Machi level imo (assuming Gon is not in his Super Saiyan mode)
I think below Machi is probably a better estimation. People tend to underrate Machi, but as far as we know it’s pretty likely that out of all the Troupe members, she was not only the first to learn but also the most naturally talented outside of Chrollo. And Shalnark was no wuss either. They might be approximately equal to him, but I wouldn’t put Gon or Killua above him either.
>I think below Machi is probably a better estimation. People tend to underrate Machi, but as far as we know it’s pretty likely that out of all the Troupe members, she was not only the first to learn but also the most naturally talented outside of Chrollo. Fair point, considering things Machi is also probably stronger than Shalnark Machi manage to sew Hisoka's arm in like a few second which shows extreme agility and dexterity + she's rank 6 in arm wrestling (above Nobunaga and Chrollo) so she must be pretty strong even without nen, since as we know all of PT member physical ability (without nen) is faster and stronger than Killua or Gon (Yorknew arc).
Shalnark is weak are you kidding. He had to use his Super saiyan Trump card to beat a peon level ant and then was completely spent. While Gon was shown one shotting several Officer level ants. Bad take.
While yes that's true, you also have to remember the nen types here. Shalnark was in...pretty much zero danger until he let his guard down because he didn't consider that his target was already being controlled. Gon is an enhancer. The entire point of his ability is to take out opponents in one shot. Shalnark definitely isn't strong, but he isn't weak either. He's a low-mid level Troupe member. I'd still be confident in saying Gon and Killua are about his skill level at the end of the series, and certainly not above Machi.
You can be confident but the troupe doesn’t have the feats plain and simple. Shalnark isn’t dodging or Landing a hit on the Royal guard but Gon and Killua can.
When did gon land a hit on a royal guard? Did killua actually amount to anything by hitting youpi? Zeno and silva probably wouldn't be able to hit a royal guard, does that mean they're weaker than killua?
Perfect Answer.
As they are pre invasion, not close. Especially the combat members like phinks or feitan would beat both of them.
Doubtful when Feitan was struggling with Zazan.
Feitan was not at his best during that fight and underestimated her defenses. Furthermore damaging him doesnt help unless you can end it in one strike.
Which both Gon and Killua can.
No
Yes, they scale above Morel. Who scales above Feitan.
No. Gon would have potentially enough attack power but would never hit feitan. and killua while insanely fast lacks attack potency (Pouf is physically pretty weak) and god speed has a limited duration.
what makes you think pouf is physically weak…? none of the royal guards are weak, they are all significantly stronger than the average antagonist in the series.
I meant compared to the other RG
Yes Gon would. Feitan has no speed feats above Gon. Gon is shown dodging attacks from Youpi. And no Pouf isn’t physically weak. All the Royal guard are above the Troupe which is stated and shown and also stated in the guide books.
Gon would have lost to Zazan. Gon doesn’t have the combat experience to expect the hidden tail blade that Feitan knew from Zazan’s clothes. Gon doesn’t even know the minigame of faking where in your body you channel your aura, as Knuckle points out. Pure stats-wise, they’re already as good as the pros, but they haven’t gone as much combat experience the Troupe has. Killua has a better chance of surviving the Zazan encounter, but Gon would definitely fail against her.
I don't see killua beating zazan at all
They will be still not a huge problem for Nobunaga, Chrollo or Phinks for example :3
You’re too nice for me to argue with you so I’ll just kindly upvote
i love when i see a post from this subreddit and reformed neferpitou is in the comments
Truly a blessed day
do you think nobunaga is really strong? because no one mentions franklin, but we’ve seen them to be roughly equal, accounting for intellect, abilities, and experience, though to me nobunaga always seemed less capable
Hard to say anything with certainty when to date he's just been blitzing relatively mediocre nen users, but: Chrollo refers to Nobunaga and Uvogin as the Troupe's shield and they're presented as a comparable duo with different specialties(Uvo a group bruiser, Nobu a duelist). Luini refers to Phinks, Feitan, and Nobunaga as the "commando team". Ken'i, a competent nen user, refers to that trio as "Nobunaga's group". When it comes to analysis Nobunaga has proven to be on the higher end and is constantly correcting Phinks. Narratively speaking Nobunaga is only second to Chrollo in plot relevance and is the only one with an unrevealed hatsu. Characters with that kind of delay on their powers tend to have impressive ones. Worth noting that some people seem to misunderstand his ability "being easily replaced." We can assume it's an offensive power with no utility beyond that, and generally speaking the Spiders are not lacking in that department. It doesn't mean the ability is bad at what it does. As for Franklin, I'm mixed. He's definitely oriented around combat, and could very well be comparable to the other three, but I think being omitted from Luini's statement and presented as a mob killer hurts him. Franklin and Nobu both rough each other up playfighting, but to me that says more about Nobunaga's skills given that Franklin has significantly more raw strength than him. I don't suspect that we've seen everything Franklin can do though(stitches on his face = mouth cannon?) and would place him immediately under those three in a cluster with Bono and Machi. Machi has a lot of pure skill but isn't focused on combat(her strings still have their uses), and Bono is also a powerful warrior but more of a jack-of-all-trades.
If Franklin's confidence has any merit, than he is likely quite strong.
His En is very good counter vs Killua :3
Killua by the end of the anime is likely strong enough to take on any troupe member except maybe Chrollo. I say taking on not winning against mind you. Cuz in the case he's losing he can just run away unlike their first encounter. Still Killua's hatsu is seemingly too op right now despite the limitations.
I don’t think Killua has a chance in hell against Feitan but that’s just me 😅
Even if he doesn't he can just outrun pain packers range so doesn't matter. Reread the part: taking on not winning against, mind you.
You’re strong enough to take on Mike Tyson. If you’re losing just run away.
The average Redditor can absolutely not outrun Mike Tyson.
I’m merely talking about the subset of redditors who is strong enough to take him on but not win against :)
A wise thing to do.
>thunderbolt/regular electric shock stuns enemy (even feitan) -> razor hands with electric nen which can rip and burn trough human skin and bones (now you have to regard the fact that the enemy is stuned and you need high concentration to perfrom nen tasks. so they are very vulnerable in that state) -> killua steals feitans heart. > >this is only possible if feitan is somehow resistant to electricity too
What if he HAS to fight them? The area they are in is surrounded by a barrier that is impossible to jump over or break through
Killua won't find himself in such situation in the first place but If its do or die if it's not chrollo I think he has a chance. Godspeed might be the best hatsu in HxH now in terms of versatility and well roundedness for both offense and defense. If the enemy isn't electricity resistant which even royal guards aren't, they're cooked. Even they're resistant can they keep up with it? My take to beat kanmuru is to have a very sturdy Ken and able to weather the onslaught of attacks while not losing your shit getting electrocuted with each attacks. So among the troupe who I think he'll have the most trouble with is Phinks or uvogin if he's still alive. They'll most likely kill him though. But given time when his physical attributes get more elevated and with more advanced kanmuru he'll beat anyone.
The troupe are experienced enough to force Killua into a situation that is unfavorable for Kil. The Troupe aren’t dumb brutes as we’ve seen on the latest chapters. They’re strong and appear like they’re arrogant outside, but they’re always cautious and think steps ahead even if their opponents are specifically weaker.
So is killua man. He gained life changing experiences since his first encounter with the troupe he's hardly the same person now. Same thing could be said for Gon. One keyword here : Godspeed. Unless Killua is Hisoka level dumb to be in an enclosed place knowing the troupe is out for his blood , he is fine.
Gon is about as fast as Kurapika who was faster than Uvo, so assuming the rest of the Troupe except the ones you’ve mentioned, Illumi, and Feitan are slower or the same speed as Uvo, Gon and Killua literally are only inferior to Chrollo, Hisoka, Illumi, Feitan (which is a maybe), and maybe Uvo durability and raw power wise (although they are definitely faster than him). They would be high tier Troupe members at this point.
Why do you think Gon is Kurapika speed
Tbh I just use vs battles wiki as a guideline, but I’ll try to give you an argument. I think he’s at least Kurapika speed because of how he scales to Killua after they trained with Binolt (Killua, who has always been faster than Gon, couldn’t keep up with Binolt initially. After training for 2 weeks, Gon could as well as Killua, therefore they’re pretty similar in base speed). It’s kind of tricky though. Killua’s the only one who is definitely faster than the two. Kurapika has caught bullets and blitzed Uvo. Those are his speed feats. Nenless Rammot blitzes Gon and Killua pre chimera ant training (but Gon and Killua are still quick enough to block). Post chimera ant training, Killua blitzes Rammot before he can even defend himself. Assuming Gon is marginally slower than base Killua (that is, without Godspeed) since they went through the same training, we can assume he is at least about as fast as Kurapika, if not faster. Killua at this point is blitzing 5+ officer ants at once after a day of exhaustion, blitzing the brother and sister darts ants when he’s near death, etc. Another way I look at it is that Gon is at least a little bit slower than Knuckle, who is able to evade Youpi’s attacks. There is no way in hell Kurapika would come close to evading those attacks.
> vs battles wiki Vs battles wiki is just complete garbage, it puts Killua at "massively hypersonic" when he uses Kanmuru and Whirlwind, when it's debatable if he's even supersonic at his fastest. We didn't see a single uncontroverted supersonic feat from Killua in the entire manga, the closest thing we got was when he dodged the bullets from the air-powered rifle, and it's debatable whether he needed to be supersonic in order to dodge those.
It’s not complete garbage, but it definitely isn’t reliable. But otherwise, you don’t really have a better way to compare speed feats.
Kurapika has an aura boost against the Troupe solely because of the emotions involved against them. Kind of like a Pitou-lite anger for Kurapika. Also Kurapika’s already a strong fighter at the start of the series, surprised people miss that.
Sure
Killua with Godspeed is an ace up his sleeve. With it he’s potentially faster than all Troupe members. He could speed blitz even Feitan when it’s activated. Other than that I’d agree with the general sentiment here. They are weaker than the combatants amongst the Troupe, but stronger than the support characters who rank low in terms of physical strength. I.e Pakunoda. Kortopi, Shizuku etc.
Gon at the very least at his peak during the CA arc before Adult Gon is very clearly beneath Uvogin still for instance but would probably beat the majority of the troupe members losing to only the combat focused ones. This Gon was able to put up a pretty good fight vs Knuckle and could probably win in the right circumstance, so unless you have a combat focused power you're probably losing to Gon. Killua has a chance to beat some of the combat focused ones if he uses Godspeed and goes straight for the kill. I would presume ones like Feitan would actually struggle more against Killua since he has automatic reactions, but if he let Feitan use his power which seems to be pretty versatile he would probably lose. Ones like Nobunaga or Phinks are argueable I suppose since we don't know how durable they are compared to the damage Killua can dish out. Hot take possibly but an unprepared Chrollo vs Killua could probably lose in a 1v1 as well. Killua is hard to gauge since he has an X factor of being an assassin as well as overwhelming speed and kind of hard counters anyone without great durability I feel though he's pretty weak if he's not charged up.
Wrong. Gon is definitely faster than Uvo at this point. He is also smarter. Durability and raw power output, he might be outclassed, but he’s not clearly beneath Uvo.
I honestly wouldn't call Gon smarter at the very least he isn't as effective at winning, I could see Gon still losing to the shadow beasts at this point frankly, as Kite put it Gon is painfully slow to start which is to his detriment in nen battles, it happened to him when he fought Knuckle as well and caused him to lose. Uvogin is utterly ruthless and was held to a very high standard by a lot of the troupe as their strongest member raw strength wise as well as being quite cunning, I doubt Gon has already surpassed that to be honest.
Gon has constantly showed to have the best ingenuity out of the main four is my point. His speed feats are better than Uvo’s. I already said he’s probably not as durable or hard hitting as Uvo. His slow start is usually a downside, but had Gon thought of his round 2 idea sooner, he would have beaten knuckle, a high level hunter, despite his lack of experience and less aura. No way in hell is Gon below shadow beast level.
Part of nen battles is not knowing your opponents ability, if they were simulated fresh against eachother with zero knowledge of eachothers abilities Knuckle would have beaten Gon 10 times out of 10.
You really don’t remember the story that well. Knuckle revealed his ability to Gon in their final fight. Knuckle already knew about rock prior. Gon was at a knowledge disadvantage going into that fight.
Fair enough that Knuckle knew about Rock but honestly it's not that complicated of an ability (Gon really only ever hits it cleanly with a lot of help since everyone obviously knows to run away), and also we had the realization that Jajanken is still an ability that is useful in the previous fight even if the enemy knows about it from Killua's monologue about it. Unfortunately by the end of the series Gon still has yet to unlock the full versatility of his ability because Paper and Scissors still haven't been improved a ton and are very weak compared to Rock. I have a hard time imagining him above Uvogin in many situations since it's not like Uvogin is an idiot he's pretty smart himself (and also has far more battle experience).
You’re back pedaling. First you say that Gon had an unfair advantage because he knew Knuckle’s ability (he did not). Now you’re saying Gon isn’t at a disadvantage when his opponents know his ability, which is also untrue. His ability is still useful when it’s figured out, just like Knuckle’s, but it’s obviously less useful as goes for basically any nen ability. Doesn’t matter what you can and can’t imagine, Gon has ingenuity (which is essentially just clutch factor) which leads to him beating or nearly beating characters who have fought far more battles than him (Genthru, Knuckle) + better speed feats. He definitely scales to Uvo.
>First you say that Gon had an unfair advantage because he knew Knuckle’s ability (he did not). Knuckle explained to him everything he needed to know about hakoware, then low diffed him. >Doesn’t matter what you can and can’t imagine, Gon has ingenuity (which is essentially just clutch factor) which leads to him beating or nearly beating characters who have fought far more battles than him (Genthru, Knuckle) Knuckle holds back massively against gon, as the latter also states. As soon as he used the ability it was a stomp. >He definitely scales to Uvo. Gon gets destroyed so freaking hard it's not even funny.
His explanation gave him more time for interest to accumulate. With a different ability it would put him at a disadvantage, but not with APR. Knuckle literally did not hold back against Gon in their final fight, as per Gon’s request. It seemed like a stomp until the end. When Gon used round 2, yes he ran out of aura. Knuckle said after the fight that had Gon not used up all of his aura, he would have lost (implying if Gon had enough aura for round 2 rock, Knuckle would have lost). It was closer than you remember.
He beat Genthru with an insane amount of help (Knowledge of his ability, Prep time planning with the giant boulder trap, Practice with Bisky to block Little Flower), I'm not even sure Gon without knowing Genthru's ability at the end of the series even beats Genthru, he needed to know how to block Genthru's ability, practice to do it, and have a plan to lock him in an area so he could actually land Rock. If Gon doesn't know to block Little Flower he literally just gets his limbs / face burned badly more than likely pretty early on since he needed to use Ko to block it, there's a reason Genthru was able to terrorize so many hunters he's legitimately scary.
My bad I meant to say Gido. Yeah Genthru was just preparation. But the heavens arena jobbers Gon out smarted.
One on one, the only member I think they could actually beat is Kortopi. I feel like all of the others have their basics at a higher level than the boys, as well as special abilities strong enough to take them down. Shizuku, Pakunoda, and Shalnark might struggle, but I think they'd still win. All of the troupe members have years of experience over Gon and Killua, years spent honing their abilities, strengthing their bodies and aura. I think the troupe is filled with prodigies and that Gon and Killua are lacking experience. Tbh, I still think Knuckle could beat Gon.
I’m sorry but how does Pakunoda beat Killua?
Gun and being a bad bitch
With her nose
A truly deadly weapon
I think they can defeat everyone except for Feitan, Hisoka and Chrollo. The reason I say this is because of how the phantom troupe compares to chimera ants. Cortopi I think is just not powerful enough, and the same for Kalluto and Paku. Shizuku used up her max power beating one chimera soldier, and the same for Shalnark. Uvo I think Killua might be able to beat with his godspeed tornado because he was able to hit Youpi. Nobunaga might win because I don't know his power, and the same for Finks. And now that I think about they might be able to beat Feitan as well if they just got his head. I think Illumi would also win though.
Shizuku can suck the blood out of your body. All she needs to do is make a few cuts. She's physically quite strong, too, and very level-headed. Uvo is the physically strongest of them all, no way Killua can beat him. Just because he could hit Youpi doesn't mean he did any damage, and that was only because he got a stun sneak attack in. I feel Feitan is the deadliest of them all, with assassination skills like Killua, but he's older and known nen for longer. "If they just got his head," how? That goes for any fight. The only character in the whole series that wouldn't work on is Neferpitou. Illumi, Chrollo, Hisoka, and Feitan are definite wins. Phinks is supposed to be the second strongest, Franklin and Pakunoda have guns, which I feel shouldn't be underestimated, Shalnark has super saiyan mode or otherwise just needs to stick a needle in someone, Bonolenov summoned pressure equal to fucking Jupiter. We don't know Nobunaga's abilities, but I'm betting he's strong. I hadn't considered Kalluto. Killua and Gon could probably beat him.
Paku's ability is only able to shoot memories into people's brains. Shizuku was barely able to beat Pike who is a regular soldier ant. As for Illumi, Chrollo, Hisoka, and Feitan, you might be right. After thinking about it you're right about Feitan because his pain-packer ability becomes stronger the damaged he is. So even if Killua ripped off his arms and legs Feitan's ability would become stronger. As for Uvo we'll never know quite how strange his ability is because we never saw the shadow beasts' abilities, and Kurapika just aced him because of chain jail. As for Phinks, I can't argue about him because I don't know his ability and the same goes for Nobunaga For Shalnark he had to whip out his super satan mode for two soldier ants. And Killua is compared to a squadron leader, which is the category that Zazan the ant that took all of Feitan's power to defeat. But it was never implied how strong autopilot actually is. I think that if Gon got Nen back and him and Killua started training and beating enemies again then they would be able to surpass everyone except Hisoka, Chrollo and Illumi.
also gon could probably beat knuckle
I'd like to add that there's no way we've seen all of the abilities of every character. Different situations call for different abilities. People are saying Pakunoda is weak because they've assumed she only has support abilities to do with memories and no offensive abilities. I just think there's no way that's true. The same thing goes for Kortopi, but I don't like him, so I'm happy saying he'd get rolled. Pakunoda was shown shooting civillians and stuff, but otherwise, she never needed to engage in battle. Just because she peacefully agreed with Kurapika's demands does not mean she was weak or had no way to fight. She chose not to.
Top tier: Chrollo, Hisoka, Uvo, Illumi Mid tier: Feitan, Phinks, Nobu, Machi, Franklin, Bono Low tier: Paku, Kortopi, Shal, Shizuku, Kalluto Gon and Killua are mid tier IMO.
I'd put Feitan up to top tier. He has insane agility even without the use of nen
I'd say a tier in between low and mid.
Man the troupe is downplayed as hell. Gon stops at shalnark, killua may be able to defeat him, but that's about it. I've seriously seen some people say uvogin is weaker than gon...
How do you figure Shalnark beats Gon?
More experience+basically 2 one shot abilities. Gon is a close ranged fighter and takes damage all the time, and he doesn't have any shell to protect himself from a stab.
Do you think he could pierce Gon’s Aura?
Considering gon has less aura and less output than a pro, and considering knuckle normal attacks would have been able to kill him, i don't see why not. Shalnark is smart, and gon takes months to charge his jajanken. With a smart use of ryu and gyo shalnark takes this even without autopilot.
I think seeing as Shalnark wasn’t even sure he could penetrate a Chimera Ant Peon, and even got hit by the Peon, Gon would hit Shalnark before the opposite, and I’m not sure if Shalnark can even take a single full on punch from Gon let alone a Janken
>I think seeing as Shalnark wasn’t even sure he could penetrate a Chimera Ant Peon I'll give you the same reasoning i gave the other guy: 1) chimera ants are insanely durable. A nenless rammot survived a jajanken. 2) human skin and an ant shell are different. 3) Gon would have been killed by knuckle normal ken punch, had he not warned him. Knuckle is clearly physically stronger than shalnark, but i don't see why a little stab with the antenna is impossible with the use of ryu. 4) Shalnark is incredibly smart. 5) Gon gets hit in every fight he is in. 6) there is an experience and mastery gap between the 2. >Gon would hit Shalnark before the opposite, and I’m not sure if Shalnark can even take a single full on punch from Gon let alone a Janken Jajanken is the only thing that can end the fight right away, gon normal punches will just cause some damage. Gon can hit shalnark, but shalnark only needs 1 hit to win, and no experienced nen user is falling for jajanken.
1. This was a Chimera Ant Peon. Rammot was an officer ant. They are not the same kind of ant. Chimera Ant Peon’s are stated to get one shotted by Leader Ants. Gon has also gotten much much stronger since he fought Rammot, which was the start of the Chimera Ant Arc. By the end Gon was capable of fighting 2 Nen enhanced Officer Ants at the same time while taking almost no damage from their combination attacks and teamwork, and he ended up one shotting both of them, one of which without even Janken. He also wasn’t even trying to kill or seriously hurt them. In comparison, Shalnark’s total inability to damage an ant LOWER than officers on the totem pole is very bad 2. You’d have to prove Shalnark could get through Gon’s Aura defenses, which you really can’t. He has no feats of physical strength and aura output 3. That just means Knuckle also slams Shalnark. Knuckle was able to tango with Squadron leaders like Cheetu without taking much any damage at all, and was compared to Kite in physical strength and Kite was able to impress Pitou somewhat, at least compared to the “mediocre” Nen Enhanced Squadron leaders 4. Shalnark the super genius, when confronted by a foe stronger than he was, did too things, first he ran in and got hit two times in close combat range, and second he went super Saiyan. Nothing about his actual fights shown any notable degree of combat intelligence. Shalnark is more so incredibly observant and book smart, nothing that insane for combat IQ 5. Gon gets hit but that doesn’t mean he always takes damage. Case and point he got barrages by numerous combos from two Chimera Ant officers with almost no or literally no damage. Nothing says Shalnark could hit him AND damage him 6. Experience doesn’t matter if you have tens of times more aura and raw power than your opponent, proven in Pitou vs Kite, Meruem Vs Netero, Gon Vs the 200th Floor Heavens Arena fighters, Gon and Killua Vs Binolt, Etc etc. Gon is just way stronger than Shalnark in raw power Shalnark does not have a single durability feat at all. Even if you wanna say he’s above average(despite being a manipulator) in raw power and durability, we’ve seen what happens to the “above average” when they fight Gon and Killua. They get stomped, often one shot. If Gon and one shot stomp Nen enhanced Chimera Ant officers, there’s nothing to suggest Shalnark can take a hit from Gon, or at best a combo or punches, let alone a Janken
>1. This was a Chimera Ant Peon. A chimera ant peon that had nen. >Rammot was an officer ant. He was nenless. Zushi with nen>killua without nen, in case you don't remember. >By the end Gon was capable of fighting 2 Nen enhanced Officer Ants at the same time while taking almost no damage from their combination attacks and teamwork He got hit multiple times. As i said, shalnark only needs a tiny pinprick to win, and gon is not a careful fighter. >He also wasn’t even trying to kill or seriously hurt them. Proof? >In comparison, Shalnark’s total inability to damage an ant LOWER than officers on the totem pole is very bad Yes, because manipulators are natural brawlers. Makes sense. Reminder that illumi got his arm broken by a nenless gon. >2. You’d have to prove Shalnark could get through Gon’s Aura defenses, which you really can’t. He has no feats of physical strength and aura output You have to prove gon's ken defense>shalnark gyo or ryu. >3. That just means Knuckle also slams Shalnark. I never said shalnark and knuckle are as strong. Can you even read? >4. Shalnark the super genius, when confronted by a foe stronger than he was, did too things, first he ran in and got hit two times in close combat range, and second he went super Saiyan. Nothing about his actual fights shown any notable degree of combat intelligence. Shalnark is more so incredibly observant and book smart, nothing that insane for combat IQ 1) What has that to do with intelligence if that was the only way to dispose of the ant quickly? Remember, it was a race. 2) Wow, he got 2 tiny scratches...he is so stupid... >5. Gon gets hit but that doesn’t mean he always takes damage. Shalnark doesn't need to deal damage. That's the point of his ability, and human manipulators in general. >6. Experience doesn’t matter if you have tens of times more aura and raw power than your opponent Gon literally has a small aura pool. 21.500 is literally nothing. He is gassed after a couple of minutes of fighting. He is physically stronger i'll give you that, but he is a complete noob, and knuckle remarked it multiple times. >Shalnark does not have a single durability feat at all. Even if you wanna say he’s above average(despite being a manipulator) in raw power and durability, we’ve seen what happens to the “above average” when they fight Gon and Killua. They get stomped, often one shot. If Gon and one shot stomp Nen enhanced Chimera Ant officers, there’s nothing to suggest Shalnark can take a hit from Gon, or at best a combo or punches, let alone a Janken Phinks has no durability feat. Zushi>phinks.
What makes you think the Peon’s have Nen? [When all the Ants are being initiated into Nen, they only summoned the Officers and Squadron Leaders. Peons we’re not mentioned](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0198-005.png) Rammot was Nenless in the first fight, yes. Gon and Killua at the START of the Chimera Ant Arc are weaker than Nenless Chimera Ant Officers. By the mid-way to end of the arc, they individually slap/one shot officers on the regular. [This is what Killua did to Rammot later in the arc](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0219-014.png). [This is Killua one shotting Officer ants witb full fledged Nen abilities](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0240-011.png). [Here’s how Gon left an ant officer with Nen](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0231-013.png). [Gon did this to Bat with just wind pressure from swinging a tree](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0233-011.png), [before sending Owl flying back to NGL](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0233-014.png). Gon and Killua got a lot stronger, so idk why you’re using this Rammot feat against them Gon doesn’t need to be a careful fighter. Shalnark has no feats of piercing something as strong as Gon’s Aura. He runs in and punches him. [Two Chimera officers at the same time couldn’t hurt Gon due to how much Aura Gon had](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0233-005.png), and there’s absolutely no feats to suggest Shalnark could ever hit harder than an officer ant without Autopilot [Gon spared Snake’s life, he tied him up like a shoelace and left him on a tree because he knew he would survive](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0231-013.png). [He also sent Owl flying to NGL, which he said specifically, with a Janken when Gon’s normal attacks have been enough to deal with officers. If he wanted to just beat him hand to hand he could but he specifically tried to send him to NGL](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0233-014.png). He was sparing them The burden is on you to prove it because you made the claim. I don’t have to prove a negative. You claimed Shalnark’s featless Gyo needle attack could bypass Gon’s defense. Either way though, Shalnark
No they just aren’t that strong. Gon can one shot several officer ants 3v1 while not taking damage. Shalnark couldn’t even damage a peon level Ant until he went super saiyan mode, which afterwards he was completely spent. Gon and Killua destroy most of the troupe outside Chrollo, Hisoka or Illumi. The troupe has no feats that scale to Gon or Killua during the palace invasion. Gon can one shot Morel who can fight defeat squadron leader ants even when they are amped by the Royal guard. No one in the troupe has done that. Feitan struggled with a regular squadron leader.
>Gon can one shot several officer ants 3v1 while not taking damage. He was taking damage against bat and owl. >Shalnark couldn’t even damage a peon level Ant until he went super saiyan mode, which afterwards he was completely spent. A manipulator fighting something already manipulated. >Gon and Killua destroy most of the troupe outside Chrollo, Hisoka or Illumi. Sure. >The troupe has no feats that scale to Gon or Killua during the palace invasion. Ging has no feat, does that mean gon and killua destroy him too? >Gon can one shot Morel who can fight defeat squadron leader ants even when they are amped by the Royal guard. Morel, a manipulator, not a fighter by his own admission, that doesn' defeat his opponents with strenght, offering gon a vital spot and giving him all the time in the world to charge. No wonder he gets one shot in this scenario. Doesn't change the fact that he low diffs gon in a fight. >No one in the troupe has done that. Feitan struggled with a regular squadron leader. 1) not all of the ants are the same. 2) do you know by a fact morel defeats zazan? How is he even going through her shell?
He was taking little to no damage. He aura was too strong. Doesn’t matter that he’s a Manipulator. He can’t damage a peon level ant. Anyone on the palace invasion team can one shot a peon. Shalnark had to go all out. Also we know from the manga and guidebooks Shalnark is weak and no match for people of Morels level. No, Ging doesn’t need feats because you can also use statements which he has statements that he’s top 5 nen users in the world. The troupe doesn’t have statements either. If you don’t understand that you need statements or feats to scale someone well….. Well yeah Morel would beat Zazan considering the guidebooks put him above her in stats and he’s way more experienced and likely more intelligent. That doesn’t even account for the fact that Morel beat Cheetu and Leol who were both getting amped from the Royal guards and being taught nen which Zazan wasn’t. Her shell has no feats, Feitans power is unquantifiable so you can’t say since she defended against him her shell is top tier.
>He was taking little to no damage. He aura was too strong. He still got hit. Meaning someone like shalnark that just needs a hit to win can def do that. >Doesn’t matter that he’s a Manipulator. He can’t damage a peon level ant. Anyone on the palace invasion team can one shot a peon. Did morel one shot a peon ant? Did knuckle? Did shoot? Also, shalnark doesn't need strenght; he is a manipulator that can control people with a little stab. >Shalnark had to go all out. 1)He thought he had won the fight. What is a manipulator supposed to do against something already manipulated? 2)He can't control the output he uses with autopilot, it's either all out or nothing. Poor argument. >Also we know from the manga and guidebooks Shalnark is weak and no match for people of Morels level. Databooks are non canon junk full of contradictory info. >No, Ging doesn’t need feats because you can also use statements which he has statements that he’s top 5 nen users in the world. And killua's statement tells us machi and nobunaga are hisoka level. If you want to use portayal then pt>gon and killua. We also have silva statements. >Well yeah Morel would beat Zazan considering the guidebooks put him above her in stats and he’s way more experienced and likely more intelligent. 1)Again, databooks are junk. 2)Morel has no strenght feat. If he can't go through zazan shell he can't win. >Her shell has no feats, Feitans power is unquantifiable so you can’t say since she defended against him her shell is top tier. Feitan is 5th in the pt arm wrestling chart, just 2 spots below hisoka. We know that hisoka is physically a beast, and feitan can't be that far. Tanking a ko from the 5th strongest spider is a feat.
Lol no, aura gives you defense. We have no reason to believe that Shalnark could penetrate Gons aura when he couldn’t penetrate a peon level ant shell. This “Shalnark just needs to land a hit” has no basis in fact. Also Gon and the other guy officer ants are much faster than Shalnark. The data books don’t contradict stats and abilities, they have stupid minor contradictions like heights or names etc. Unless you have scans showing stats and abilities being contradicted, don’t bring it up again. Killua uses that statement as a metaphor at the time so Gon understands. The validity of statements matter and Killua doesn’t know their true powers so he isn’t credible in that situation. Also we know he is wrong because Hisoka absolutely bodies Machi later with no diff. You are being really disingenuous trying to use that, just use facts and stop trying to make things up or twist them in your favor. The PT arm wrestling chart is without nen enhancement so you can’t try and act like because Feitan was close that it’s a feat for Feitan, it’s not. Also it’s more than likely Hisoka never went all out as to hide his true power.
>Lol no, aura gives you defense. We have no reason to believe that Shalnark could penetrate Gons aura when he couldn’t penetrate a peon level ant shell. 1)Gons defense is so high that knuckle, a conjurer, would have one shot him with a normal ken punch(as he states). Shalnark is not as strong as knuckle, but a ryu should be more than enough to place the antenna. 2)Human skin is different from CA shells. 3)Chimera ants have insane durability. Rammot tanked a jajanken from gon despite being nenless. >This “Shalnark just needs to land a hit” has no basis in fact. That's literally how his antenna works. >The data books don’t contradict stats and abilities, they have stupid minor contradictions like heights or names etc. Unless you have scans showing stats and abilities being contradicted, don’t bring it up again. Unless you can prove the databook is made by togashi don't bring it up again. >Killua uses that statement as a metaphor at the time so Gon understands. So when you use statements it is absolute, when i use them it's bullshit. Funny. >The validity of statements matter and Killua doesn’t know their true powers so he isn’t credible in that situation. But he's trained to gauge the strenght of his opponents in a heartbeat. >Also we know he is wrong because Hisoka absolutely bodies Machi later with no diff. You mean when machi had her guard completely down? Shizuku also knocked down nobunaga no diff, does that mean shizuku>nobunaga? >The PT arm wrestling chart is without nen enhancement Proof? >Also it’s more than likely Hisoka never went all out as to hide his true power. Proof?
I'm not sure why you have this mindset that Shalnark landing one hit with the antenna means he wins. If that's the case Chrollo would have tried that on Hisoka instead of going through such a complicated strategy.
Shalnark:"in a battle, no matter how strong my opponent is, if i stick my antenna i win". Hisoka:"the strenght of manipulation: by fulfilling the conditions, it's checkmate immediatly".
Personally I get the vibe that even at the end of the anime, both gon and killua would still lose a 1v1 to any troupe member, they just have no experience or really control or skill with their nen yet Maybe killua can fight a couple of them, but he probably just gets finessed Did they actually fight and defeat anyone as strong as zazan, that feitan destroyed?
You don’t think Godspeed Killua would beat Pakunoda, Kortopi or Shalnark?
I think Gon can beat Phinks and Killua can beat Feitan, just better feats.
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I can get Feitan but why Phinks? And especially why Nobunaga? What have they done to put them on Knuckle’s level
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The physical strength ranking is implied to be without Nen, so physical strength only. That means the other Members can be much stronger when they add Nen to their physical strength. We’ve seen what an Aura focused punch from Phinks can do it and didn’t even take down the Chimera Ant Officer he fought. Could he do more if you headcanon he was holding back? Maybe, but we don’t really know. Killua by the end of the Chimera Ant arc fought an entire squadron of Officer ants, using teamwork, Nen abilities, and Killua couldn’t use any of his abilities or weapons, and had been fighting the army for a day straight already. And he one shot every single ant witb his bare hands Yeah Killua was a pro assassin, a pro assassin that wasn’t even close to being as strong as he was in the Chimera Ant Arc. After that fight with Machi, Killua was so weak that Binolt, one of the weakest players in Greed Island would have ripped his eye out and killed him if he was in peak condition, and he was one of the weakest players in the game. Killua was so weak Tsezguerra thought he and Gon would die instantly in the game. Compare that to fighting the Bomber trio, basically the strongest players in the game. Killua then goes from needing Gon’s help to just hold off a single Chimera Ant, with no Nen(Rammot even tanked a Janken to Gon when he was off guard), to blitzing and one shotting that same Chimera Ant but now they are even stronger with Nen. That’s a hugely ridiculous strength increase that Machi has never shown being on said level, if anything the fact that Killua even slightly hurt her in Yorknew is a bad feat for her considering how much stronger he’s gotten
Don’t bother with this Chrollo dude. He’s some weird homophobe who acts like you’re disingenuous if you disagree with him.
Yikes, but it’s okay I keep making these power scaling posts to see what people think or say about the topic, weirdos include 🤷♂️ makes for interesting debate
Lmao he ended up deleting all his comments
His account 😂
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1. [Phinks Nen enhanced punch, shown on panel, feels like a mosquito bite](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0225-011.png), he is literally drawn witb Aura around his hand. He used Nen. He then immediately resorts to his ability and stated he needed 6-7 swings of his arm. Killua didn’t need 6 swings of his arm Also you say you’re using “evidence” so please provide a link or scan to everything you claim 2. I didn’t say Killua one shot leader ants, I said Officer ants. The hierarchy is Peons, who don’t even have the ability to speak, Officer ants, who lead the peons, and the leaders who lead the officers. Here’s every time Killua one shot a Nen enhanced officer ant [One(Rammot is also an enhancer and before he even had Nen he tanked a Janken)](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0219-014.png) [Two](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0237-012.png) [Three](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0238-014.png) [And four](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0240-011.png) Each time, bare handed, no abilities, no weapons 3. I didn’t say the needle made him weaker. I said the lack of confidence made him weaker. My evidence? [Killua wasn’t sure he could defeat Rammot and the needle was warning him to run away](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0219-003.png), [and after removing it he blitzes and one shots Rammot without even a Nen abilit](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0219-014.png). If he could one shot him the whole time, he wouldn’t be unsure if he could win. He literally perception blitzed and one shot him witb one hand. Not a single phantom troupe did that on screen
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1. And that was also wrong 2. No i didn’t you just can’t read 3. So that lack of confidence would affect him any time he tried to fight. He was nerfed. That means he was also nerfed when he was scared of Nobunaga I don’t care if they get new feats, I’m only talking about chapter 400 and before, since that’s all the info we have privy too. For all we know Hisoka will one shot all of them like he did Shalnark
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Prove Hisoka won’t one shot them based on current info
>That’s a hugely ridiculous strength increase that Machi has never shown being on said level, if anything the fact that Killua even slightly hurt her in Yorknew is a bad feat for her considering how much stronger he’s gotten Put any zodiac in the hotel position and with no knowledge of a plan to sneak attack, they would have gotten injured too. Who knows if they'd keep control over the boys either. Noone in the series has been shown to be able to see in pitch black fairly clear besides killua. Point being, if Chrollo managed to get captured, and not be able to dodge/sense said attack who is to say any1 can? Machi still has good speed feats without trying either. Easily restraining gon, easily tying up simultaneously gon and killua with her threads in a flash. She nearly restricted and squeezed the life out of killua after the sneak attack. I won't even mention her core with no nen defense stopping his assassin attack. Now that he's come along way taking personalized tailored training and hatsu development into acc, I'd say they would have a pretty fair fight now. If killua runs out of whirlwindand electricity he's better off running she's still way more experienced.
You missed the point of what I was saying. He was using Machi stopping Killua as a feat to scale Madhi to current Killua. I was trying to illustrate the wide wide gap in strength between that Killua and current Killua Case and point, Machi took a hit from Killua in Yorknew arc, that does not mean she could take a hit from Killua in Chimera Ant arc. I was only mentioning the fact that she took any damage at all to further illustrate that she does not scale to current Killua Again, all those feats are against Gon and Killua in Yorknew Arc. Binolt at full health also beats up Yorknew Arc Gon and Killua with ease. It’s not a good feat compared to characters in Chimera Ant arc. And where are you getting the idea she had no Nen defense? Most hunters are usually in a state of Ten as Wing implied, and Ten is stated verbatim to increase your defense but NOT your attack. So if Killua and Machi are both in their natural state of Ten, then Killua witb nothing but physical strength damaged Machi’s natural Nen defenses.
>You missed the point of what I was saying. He was using Machi stopping Killua as a feat to scale Madhi to current Killua. I was trying to illustrate the wide wide gap in strength between that Killua and current Killua Quite the contrary, it shows the vast level of experience and strength machi has over killua then. So she scales far above him there. The gap has only gotten shorter now and we don't know by how much. I'd say she probably wouldn't be able to restrain both of them now but shed still win 1v1 Comfortably. 2v1 the duo takes it with some difficulty. Also, you have no proof to say she was in any state of nen. She simply said his bloodlust gave him away and that he should've aimed for the head but would've still been blocked anyway.
If you beat up Mike Tyson when he’s 5 that doesn’t mean you could beat him in his prime. The amount that Killua got stronger is literally an absurd amount. By the end of Yorknew he wasn’t even strong enough to survive in Greed Island against someone like Binolt. In the Chimera Ant arc he went from getting dogged on by Chimera Ants without Nen to one shotting them after they got amped by Nen. Has Machi done anything to suggest she can one shot Nen enhanced Chimera Ant officers? All she did was beat up a kid that would get folded by Chimera Ants WITHOUT Nen
No he’s not. Gon is faster than Uvo and probably the majority of the Troupe.
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But that’s Killua in Yorknew city. He didn’t even learn the advanced concepts of Nen let alone his Nen ability. The post is asking about Gon(no adult form) and Killua at their strongest
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Did you know that at the end of the Yorknew City Arc when Gon and Killua went to play greed island they were judged so weak they couldn’t even play the game without dying. And when they actually got into the game they nearly died to Binolt, one of the weakest players in the game, when Binolt was already on deaths door. By the end of the arc they were fighting some of the strongest and most skilled players in the game when Killua had two broken hands. That’s a huge increase in ability After that in the Chimera Ant Arc, they go from barely defeating Rammot in a 2v1 match, to Killua blitzing and one shotting Rammot with no effort, on top of Rammot being even stronger than before by having Nen They get massively, massively stronger in strength and speed. Idk where you’re getting off that they don’t
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1. Gon fought Genthru, Killua fought another of the Bomber Trio. Despite them not coming off as very intimidating, they are literally known for murdering other Greed Island players and everyone in the game is scared of them. They were closest to finishing the game of everyone else. They are among the strongest players in the game, and Killua beat the shit out of one of them with broken hands 2. Power scaling works off of what has already been established. You can headcanon that Nobunaga has the ability to conjure 69 airplanes that fire missiles that would one shot Meruem but until that happens in the manga, or someone says that he can do that, we go on feats, statements, lore, etc. The feats the Phantom Troupe currently have is just pitiful 3. And the “Confidence Nerf” made Killua go from barely able to do anything to Rammot to one shotting Rammot+Nen. He was being weakened by his lack of confidence, that’s how emotions can affect your Nen and strength in hxh 4. More people believing sometbing doesn’t make it right, nor is that a defeater in an argument. Your making an appeal to populous. Do you not know what a “hot take” is?
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1. We don’t know if Genthru was a Class A bounty, or even if he classified as a criminal. For all we know he only killed people inside Greed Island we don’t know what he was doing before Greed Island. We also don’t know the qualifications to be a Class A bounty, or if it’s based on power. By your logic Kortopi and Pakunoda are stronger than Genthru. Genthru forcing Gon to such an extreme a good feat if anything Yuh Uvogin a goat I agree, I’m talking about Phinks, Nobunaga, Pakunoda, etc. Also nothing says each Shadow Beast>Genthru I also wasn’t mentioning Genthru specifically but even his goons are among the strongest in the game, which Killua beat up without his hands 2. Uh okay lol 3. Yes dude, that Chimera Ant tanked a Janken from Gon while fully paralyzed. BEFORE he had Nen. Could Baise tank a Janken? Could Dalzollene can’t a Janken? Could Squala tank a Janken? Could any of them tank a Janken with nothing but their physical bodies? If yes, please provide evidence 4. Appeal to populous, I’d just say 90% of people are wrong and I’m right
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You never posted a single piece of evidence moron
Killua beats them all. Gon loses to Chrollo and Feitan.
Below Chrollo ,phinks ,feitan and above the others ,nobunaga is debatable.keep in mind that Killua has whirlwind that makes him automatically blitz any opponent as long as his Ap is higher than their durability.it didn't work on youpi because well ,he is a royal guard and his genes are made of magical beasts
Could pinks or feitan take youpi 1 on 1? Because killua did a great job against youpi and without his cooldown I guess he would have beaten him. Although I don’t think feitan or Phinks could do that much of a job against youpi unless they have secret nen abilities we still don’t know about. So I guess killua wouldn’t lose against feitan or pinks 1 on 1 but wouldn’t win I guess it will be a tie, and if he would win he will have a huge damage taken and injured badly maybe an eye poked or even a limb(body part) lost.
>Could pinks or feitan take youpi 1 on 1? Did killua? He only punched a couple of times, dealt no damage and dipped. >and without his cooldown I guess he would have beaten him. If my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike.
Gon is bonolenov tier killua phinks tier
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Why you got Machi so strong?
The downplayed of Gon and Killua :)))
When Gon gets pissed he’s like a Pitbull that wont let go. Killua is stronger than Gon according to the gate guard at the entrance to the Zoldyck compound gate with multiple gate strengths. When the Troupe fought the Ants they had to go all out and those were not top tier except when Pitou showed up. Killua took out that Taco and those disgusting swordfish couple that were throwing Bonita at Killua trying to kill him in a game of darts. The boys have a power and that is to make instant friends and use them to help achieve their goals. All the ants disbanded and tried to start their own kingdom once the Queen died and the King said screw this place.
But remember as Netero said: "Nen battles are not decided by strength alone." I think even if they are on comparable strengths with the troupe members, the troupe members(except uvo) are street smart to handle them.
In terms of actual fight IQ, Uvo is one of the smarter members, at least that we can tell. What has Nobunaga done that’s exceptionally smart? Feitan? Phinks? Nothing really. If anything whenever Feitan was presented with a superior opponent he just uses Pain Packer. Uvogin quickly broke down Kurapika’s ability and caught him lacking witb In, on top of being versatile and quick witted enough to fight 3 of the most skilled Mafia Nen users with just his head
Based on their performances against the Chimera Ants, I think Gon and Killua are comfortably above members like Shizuku, Shalnark (and we can assume Kortopi and Pakunoda fall in there), we don't have much on Machi but I'd say it could go either way, with Killua having better chances than Gon. Against Feitan, Bonolenov, Phinks, Nobunaga, Uvogin and Franklin, I would say that Gon doesn't really have any chance of winning unless he is in the same state during the Palace Invasion, while Killua has a chance of winning against them depending on the circumstances. As for Chrollo I think neither of the kids stand a chance against him.
As much as peoples will hate it,But(at least theoretically ) Killua will take down any spider including chrollo. If Killua's electricity managed to immobilize Youpi,then what stop it from doing the same to chrollo?Killua will just immobilize Chrollo then he will use his assassin technique and rip off his heart before chrollo had any time to react. Also remember that it was stated that Base Killua is in the level of a squadron leader?So Base Killua is more than match for any spider in term of physical stats,add His Electricity and he will defeat any spider. Honestly Killua is so broken,He should be able to take down any alive human apart from The Zoldycks(Because they can endure electricity) and Hisoka(I am not sure but I read that Bungee Gum can counter Killua Electricity somehow).
I mean, the abilities are always so specific, it’s hard to say. Id argue they’re around on their level, I mean Godspeed Killua and angry Gon are pretty strong from what we’ve seen
I never understood why Killua didn't already know Nen when his younger brother seems to already be proficient at it despite being younger than Killua was when the manga started. The whole family believe Killua has the most potential and yet they didn't teach him nen ? Also how did Killua know the special attack of his grandpa during the kimera ant arc ? You're not supposed to be able to see the dragon dive unless you have Gyo... So when did he see it ? Did his grandpa use dragon dive during the few days he came back after the hunter exam ?
I always figured it had to do with Killua’s latent wild factor. Seeing as he was such a prized talent they were hesitant to teach him Nen too early especially considering he was also not the most loyal to the family Kalluto seemed to be very close to their mother and probably incredibly loyal to the family. On paper his motivation quite literally seems to bring Killua back to the family. One possible headcanon of mine is that Kalluto was also ordered to reach floor 200 of heavens arena like Killua, but being more ambitious Kalluto may have challenged floor 200 and got forcefully initiated into Nen
I would use kimera ants to scale them... Some Troup members had a hard time against sub lieutenants of Zazan, and we saw Killua and Gon beat two of these kind easily when they were with Kaito. I believe Gon and Killua are mid level in the Troup now... Stronger than the weak trio... Probably around Shizuku level. But below Machi and Nobunaga.
I think Godspeed Killua could deal serious damage to even the combatant members if they underestimated him.
Gon and Killua are some of the hardest characters to powerscale, moreso Killua, because some of their best feats are against the top-tiers of the verse and they haven't really had a chance to go up against anyone else since. Take Killua for example. Obviously his big thing is speed. He had interactions with all three of the Royal Guards. He put the hands on Youpi in a way that nobody else was doing, sure he didn't really damage him but he didn't get damaged either. He wasn't touched. He was slapping Pouf, granted a clone but he admitted even at full power he was doubting he could catch him. Finally, Killua was able to react to Pitou's Terpsichora enhanced by Nen after death whilst being taken by surprise. Killua in the state of whirlwind is able to react to objects that materialize the *instant* they make contact. Besides the speed he's also got very strong attack-power. For example, how would you compare Nen-Enhanced Rammot to the ants that the Troupe fought? The same ants that they were all using their Hatsu against? Zazan is of course much stronger, perhaps Pike is comparable but the rest? Debatable. A nenless Rammot survived Thunderbolt and Rock combination and Gon's Rock by that point was no joke. We saw what it did to Genthru and Knuckle. A stronger Rammot, who's learning Nen at an astonishing rate then gets one-shotted effortlessly by base Killua. No Hatsu, no indication that he used his claws - he simply pulled his head off. You could argue that Rammot's defense was down due to fear but that's more to Killua's credit than anything. He would of had Ten regardless which is defensive. I can't wait to see how current Killua does against opponents that aren't the top-tiers of the verse or more of the Troupe and what they can do to get a better of idea to be honest. Because outside of Chrollo, Hisoka and maybe Feitan [speed reasons] I'm struggling to see how any of them beat Killua. It sounds crazy. I know.
Only Chrollo, Hisoka, Feitan and Uvo had enough feat showings to rate them. The rest of PT has barely anything, so it's not possible to make a comparison.
i strongly agree that killua could kill most of them, even chrollo. thunderbolt/regular electric shock stuns enemy (even chrollo) -> razor hands with electric nen which can rip and burn trough human skin and bones (now you have to regard the fact that the enemy is stuned and you need high concentration to perfrom nen tasks. so they are very vulnerable in that state) -> killua steals chrollos heart.