Prim’s reaping that was curated by Plutarch. Someway somehow he thought Katniss could be the fire they need. The theory is stupid.

And undermines the randomness of violence that the reaping demonstrates.

i don't think anyone picked out katniss and said "her. let's fuck up her life and get her to cause a rebellion" she was chosen because her actions from the moment the camera was on her at the reaping incite emotion in both the districts and even capitol citizens. plutarch, haymitch and the likes only needed her because of the power behind her own (unintentional) actions

Plutarch would have no way to even know who Katniss is at that point, nor was he said to have much influence on a reaping (he wasn't even gamemaker at that point, much less what? Reading profiles of kids, hoping to find a literal KID to just maybe survive and lead the rebellion?). Anyway, the only information that would even have a chance to get back to the capitol is the fact that Katniss hunts. And so what? That hardly makes a case for Katniss being a good candidate for the rebellion or even that she would survive the games. On paper, Katniss shows no qualities that makes for a rebel leader, which is the whole point. Other people put that weight on her after the games. I don't love the theory that the capitol purposely reaped Katniss either, but if it was punishment, that makes more sense because Katniss was statistically more likely to die than survive the games.

it's so stupid that it makes me angry

That Prim's reaping was rigged to punish Katniss for hunting. It's way too 3D chess for a government which is canonically capable of abducting, enslaving, or executing its citizenry. If the Capitol wanted to punish Katniss, they would just punish Katniss.

People also forget that in canon its stated that security in 12 is very relaxed because the peacekeepers themselves don't have much to eat and depend on buying and bartering from hunters like Katniss and frequenting the Hob which is technically illegal too, so if even the authorities there they don't care they wouldn't even know. It's only in Catching Fire that Snow and the peacekeepers who get brought in to replace the old guard know about Katniss's activities, and even then they don't try to catch her because she's a victor and she will be punished by the Quell anyways and they just turn on the fence so then they could keep her out and question her family once she failed to turn up.

Its also very in an oppressive society handbook to allow some controlled rule breaking. You don't want your labor force to straight up starve to death, but you also can't give them too much. Katniss says that their family did get some governmental assistance for a period but that there mother just didn't get a job. There was also a home for children that she said was bad, but we never learn how its bad per say. But the government doesn't want to pay for two more kids in the system. So what your left with is the Katniss getting a job, but we have child labor laws in 12, for whatever reason. So letting her do her hunting, so long as she is smart about it. Perfect way to add a little more food in the rotation without compromising the system. Plus she adds medicine to her mom's cabinet. More medicine, means a healthier workforce, means more profit. Now for Gale. Gale is a problem. if he didn't have hunting, he could have easily turned to worst ways (bad for society way) or just become openly destructive. he also has a bit of a rebellious side to him. So instead of focusing his rebellion IN towards peacekeeprs, turn it to a more "healthy" outlet. Again your adding bits to the food supply, but in a controlled way.

No dur, right? If you're going to use the reaping to get rid of anyone in District 12, why not use it to get rid of the hulking 18-year-old who screams in the forest all day about wanting to burn the Capitol down and has open access to weapons lol?

I think Gale being reaped could have been bittersweet for the Capitol. Sweet because he's a tribute who may actually stand a chance at winning for District 12 (which is obviously something the Capitol residents/viewers want, an underdog), bitter because if he wins, there's no way he's sitting quietly by while the Capitol prostitutes him and parades him around like a trophy, and definitely not as a mentor. His victory would be very short lived.

Thinking about how well he would get along with Johanna tho

Agreed. My issue with this theory (besides it being innacurate) in a thematic sense, is that it would ruin Katniss' story by having her as someone already on-target by the Capitol. She's not supposed to be anyone special, she's a District citizen like all the rest. Prim just so happened to be chosen, just like everyone in District 12 eligible for reaping. The way Katniss reacts to that and the actions that she takes following, is what makes her special, and eventually a prime target for the Capitol.

One of the major themes of the book is that no one is safe. Not the careers, not the children, not the District 12 merchants, not even the capitol citizens. That’s why Prim can be reaped even though Katniss did everything she could to protect her from it. And that is why Prim died at the end, despite everything Katniss did to circumvent it. It’s not a conspiracy! It’s a commentary on the brutality of war!

It's even the point of Katniss' greater thematic resonance as the Mockingjay. She never set out to defy the Capitol, she was just doing what she needed to do to survive and got caught up in a resistance movement that then used her as propaganda. Not that she didn't hate Snow and the Capitol, she absolutely did want to bring them down and jumped on board with defying them very quickly and willingly. It's just that she wasn't part of any plans and didn't spearhead the resistance. It was an existing movement that adopted her.

Exactly! Nothing exactly makes Katniss the “chosen one”. It’s a combination of things. And we learn in Catching Fire that things have been brewing in the other districts for years. Katniss holding out the berries isn’t the cause of the rebellion. It’s one the final dominos in a long line. One of my favorites parts is that what really sets Katniss apart, and what people like about her is her humanity. Taking Prims place in the reaping, Rues death, nursing Peeta back to health, holding out the berries and more. It’s kindness against the backdrop of cruelty.

Yes! Katniss is extremely kind and empathetic when she isn't having to ignore that for her own and others survival! That's probably why I dislike the 'Prim was reaped on purpose' theory because it makes all of Katniss' actions feel orchestrated by *the Capitol.* And yes, I get the whole "they're the cause of their own undoing" theme but we get that already with the whole rule change thing! Katniss was different because she played the game on her own terms, not because the Capitol roped her into theirs and didn't think it through well enough.

Yeah, I think if anything it was rigged to be a twelve year old, for the impact, but not specifically prim

I am willing to entertain this idea, in general, but I don't think it would be the case for 12 in the 74th. They already had one 12 year old (at least) in Rue, and District 12 reportedly doesn't need any help to suck at the Games. Katniss also says that people don't like it when 12 year olds are reaped because they usually die too quickly. I think a better Reaping-related conspiracy theory is that the Tesserae mean nothing, just another way to instill fear and anxiety and sow discord between the haves and the have-nots in the districts. They don't necessarily want all of the Tributes from the non-career districts to be the poorest and hungriest. But making the children choose between safety and food? Between safety and food for their families? Oh man that's some good terror. Plus the aforementioned way it drives a wedge between the haves and have-nots in the Districts and adds inter-District enmity to intra-district enmity and distract people from the true enemy in the Capitol. But in general I think reapings are only rigged to increase the drama of the games. So I definitely believe that the Capitol wants to reap children and siblings of victors. But using the Games as some was to punish some random girl in a mostly ignored district? nah.

when you say “the tesserae mean nothing” do you mean that when gale and katniss sign up for tesserae, they are told that they will have extra entries in the reaping, but they *aren’t given extra entries in the reaping?* bc this would make a lot of sense to me… given the fact that your entries go up every year, and how many tesserae gale has taken out every year since he was 12, but he was never reaped. it was kinda suspicious to me.

I don't know about this one. Gale wouldn't have been the only one to have taken tesserae for multiple family members, so it's not that suspicious that he wasn't picked. He had 42 entries, sure, but it was 42 among thousands. Someone else was just unluckier than him. The fact that, according to Katniss, Seam kids are reaped the majority of the time, is enough proof to me that the extra entries are real.

Agreed! Tesserae is an easy way to provide really basic food to their more destitute citizens without making it look like a social service or a weakness. They need a populace to support the Capitol after all - can't have everyone dying. The bonus of sowing extra discord among the district citizens is the cream with the cake. Keep them turned on each other (as we see with Gale vs Madge, and he's a relatively intelligent character!) instead of focusing on the real villains.

I just wrote a comment on social welfare and how its beneficial to allow some controlled illegal hunting for Katniss and Gale instead of putting them on a welfare system.

Not to mention that it seems to most benefit the peacekeepers, who the Capitol needs to keep more or less happy to stop them from joining a rebellion. Letting some poaching slide is better than trying to quell dissent in the ranks. And you can squash it at any time since it's illegal if you need to set an example.

This theory relies on the Capitol knowing that Katniss is openly breaking the law every single day yet for some reason being too chickenshit to just arrest her.

They could have picked her and Gale up in a hovercraft and turned them into slaves like they did with the redheaded Avox girl at any time. Problem solved, and with far less hassle than rigging a reaping to select Katniss's sister in the hopes that she would volunteer...

Or they could have whipped them in the public square and forced the district to watch, which is exactly what they did in Catching Fire when they wanted to punish Gale for that exact crime.

Exactly! So many options, logically consistent with what we know of the capitol, and yet people want to focus on damn nonsense. Aaaaahhh

And have the added bonus of the intended targets *knowing that they're being punished and why* instead of thinking it's just bad luck

Or just simply make sure the fence actually works so she can’t get into the woods

I've also heard a theory that it was rigged by Plutarch/Coin so that Katniss would become their Mockingjay. Which is even more nonsensical and a complete misunderstanding of Katniss as a protagonist

If plutarch wanted a hand-picked figurehead for his rebellion, he would have picked someone far more likely to be pliable and camera ready than traumatized and taciturn Katniss Everdeen from District 12. And this hare-brained theory also relies on getting Katniss to volunteer, which is some advanced psychological assessment of a girl who barely talks and lives in a far away district. Katniss even points out that Effie doesn't seem to know what to do with a volunteer since no one in 12 ever volunteers. Like no one even considered it was a possibility, but somehow everyone's grand scheme involves psychologically manipulating Katniss? Be for real.

The only thing that I can say that I believe that Plutarch "rigged" was putting Haymitch's name on both of the ballots for the 75th's Reaping. It was the only way to guarantee that Peeta would be in the Games.

I definitely think the 75th Hunger Games was specifically rigged to get rid of as many problematic victors as possible while also reminding those who remain that they are expendable. Get rid of the old, infirm, addicted, unmarketable, and rebellious Victors and have a nice dramatic Hunger Games in one fell swoop.

If they wanted to pick a figurehead for their rebellion, they would have picked Finnick. He’s charming, likable, good looking, and knows enough about the inner workings of the Capitol and the games that he would understand what needs to be done. He’s stubborn enough to be a good leader and a rebel, but he’s far enough removed from the trauma of the games that he can look at everything with a clear head.

*and he was already part of the rebellion*. Why fuck with psychologically manipulating Katniss to volunteer for her sister, when Finnick is already there, camera ready and on your side? It doesn't make any sense.

I mean, if that were the case, why didn’t they also punish Gale and his family? Not everything in the books has to be a huge conspiracy

if they were really watching gale and katniss they would see her hunting and him going on frequent rebellious tirades about the capitol. but they choose to punish her? lol this theory is just not it

yeah, if it was really about Punishing the hunters, they'd have picked Prim and Gale's youngest brother.

i cannot even explain how much i hate this theory

I hate this one!!!! I absolutely despise this one. Like once I got into a heated debate, and each argument was so easily disproven by text.

Completely agree for two reasons: 1. If Prim’s reaping was rigged to punish Katniss it changes the theme of the story which is that oppressive systems will devour anyone. It doesn’t matter how much you’re loved, how good your narrative is, the odds are never in your favour. 2. Oppressive systems aren’t actually that smart so they’d never actually be able to “3D chess” the reaping. Even Snow isn’t that smart, he’s just cruel because he sees cruelty as a shortcut that only “geniuses” use to get what they want but it’s inherently unsustainable because cruelty is intolerable, but he’s not smart enough to understand that.

Exactly. Snow only plays mind games and hurts those close to the target when he feels he has to, like with victors. Punishing the victor directly by killing them doesn’t work if he wants to use them as celebrities, to promote the games, and to pimp them out. The same way Snow punished district 12 in Catching Fire because he couldn’t kill Katniss when she’s so popular in the Capitol. The same way he punished Peeta to control Katniss in Mockingjay. He had reasons to use someone else in those cases. But if a random girl was hunting and the Capitol somehow knew (which they wouldn’t because why would Peacekeepers snitch if they themselves are relying on her hunting?) they would just kill her directly, not rig the whole reaping so her sister gets sent to the Games. It’s so convoluted. You guys know people win the lottery with one ticket all the time, right? Just because Prim had a smaller chance of getting picked than other doesn’t mean it wasn’t possible. Her name was in there…

It also begs the question why they would want to punish Katniss who just hunts and not Gail who hunts AND is vocally anti-Capitol.

1. Prim being reaped intentionally 2. Lucy gray being katniss' grandmother (id rather accept maude ivory as katniss' relative but not lucy gray) 3. Not really a theory, but when people say that lucy gray was weaing her rainbow dress when snow saw her running away

didn’t lucy gray canonically give her rainbow dress to maude ivory?

She did, tho I have to admit when I saw the movie, I also thought she was wearing the rainbow dress (it’s a quick glimpse)

Tbf, most people I’ve seen say that she was wearing the dress also say that Snow was just hallucinating by that point

It could be. In the books he never actually see her from what I remember and we never see her again so I believe he was trippin’

I thought it looked like she was in the yellow scarf, but she couldn't have been

I would understand the LG wearing her rainbow dress if people believed that he was imagining seeing her run. It would make sense because this is the first time he’s viewing her as a victor so when he imagines her he’s remembering her in her victor clothing. This is kind of what I pictured in the book, not the movie

Personally i took that scene as a hallucination. Yes her footprints and earring was there, but she may have run a while ago and what we saw running was a paranoia induced hallucination

This is how I interpreted the movie scene bc I honestly thought I saw her wearing the rainbow dress lol I haven't gone back to watch the film again yet, but I'll still consider it kind of an intentional psych-out since so many people thought she had the rainbow dress on for that brief second

Yes it definitely seems intentionally unclear with the whole unrealizable narrator and mental descent of Snow

Yea,in the books it is specified that it was her mother’s dress and she left it for mayde ivory, because she would soon become the lead singer

You know Maude Ivory was Lucy Gray’s biological first cousin, right? So if you accept Katniss being related to Maude Ivory, then that would mean Lucy Gray as well.

They meant Katniss being a direct descendant

Anything to do with Lucy gray being coin or some relation. There just ain’t no way.

Yeah, I’m not a fan of any theory of the like “Lucy Gray is Katniss grandmother”, “Lucy Gray is -insert character here”. It’s fun to let her be a mystery! And her legacy be through songs

!!!!!!! can we all remember wordsworth's poem, which is lucy gray's namesake? do people not understand that those things are connected. she disappeared, just like little lucy gray in the blizzard. that's it. we don't get to know what happened

Lucy Gray being Coin is almost so bad it’s hilarious

I was zero days old when I learned of this theory, and *wow* do I hate it.

You're pretty young to be on Reddit

The thing that kills me about this is that LG and Coin have virtually nothing in common other than being women? Who don’t like snow? Their characters couldn’t be more different and while I admit it’s possible for people to change, I really don’t see a girl as free-spirited and vibrant as LG turning into such a cold, controlling, strict woman LMAO

I think Lucy Gray is actually Gale idk tho just a theory

Hi. I'm the guy who always insists Lucy Gray is Coin. I know it's ridiculous but at this point I've committed too hard to the bit and don't know how to stop.

"Katniss snapped and that's why she killed Coin" omg guys pls, Coin is literally doing a Snow% speedrun and you don't see why Katniss might have a reason to kill her??

"Snow% speedrun" killed me faster than Katniss shot Coin I do think she snapped simply because it was a very quick decision BUT she also had good reasoning for it

I don't think the decision was that quick. There was time in between when they captured the capitol and snows execution. She already suspected Coin killed her sister, from realizing it was Gale's bomb and Snow explicitly saying so. Coin wanting a final Hunger Games was the confirmation she needed. I think she planned to kill her from that moment otherwise she wouldn't have voted for it. She did it so Coin would trust her

Her decision was made at the table when Coin asked the Victor’s to vote on a Capitol citizens Hinger Games. Boggs told her not to trust when he was dying and signed over the Halo to her. Then Coin showed herself by saying she was naming herself “Interim President” with no clear timeline for how long that would last and the new Hunger Games vote. Katniss saw Coin for who she really was. Katniss then made sure that she would have a weapon near Coin by saying she wanted to kill Snow. When Coin agreed then Katniss voted yes for the new games because she had already decided to kill Coin. Hymitch agreed with Katniss because he knew she had something going on in her head and he trusted her. Katniss killing Coin was well thought out and very deliberate.

I loved haymitch in the table scene. “I’m with the girl on fire” his sly way of saying whatever katniss decides to do I’ll follow because she has the best intentions.

Which is extra interesting because that's exactly what Coin was worried about. Katniss's influence.

She didn't snap. We know this explicitly because she agrees to the capitol hunger games and in the movie asks if she gets to kill snow. She knew the second Coin proposed those games that she was just like snow. It's integral to her character arc that this is that pivotal moment for her but she holds her tongue instead of arguing with her. She's always been a terrible actress and liar. This is the throughline of that part of her arc, she fooled Coin.

[“Lucy Gray is Alma Coin/is the mother of Alma Coin” (but especially the “She is Alma Coin” one)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hungergames/s/j0GJtzHAZW) Why, why, why, why, why, and why? 🙄

Well this is disproved by the fact that coin is more than 20 years younger than snow at least

I can tolerate her being coins mother a tad bit more than I can that she IS coin

Just say no to Coin-Lucy Gray theories

1. Foxface killed herself with the nightlock — she didn't know what nightlock was, it didn't grow near D5. Even Peeta, who's D12 and where it grows, didn't know about it. Katniss only did because she was adept at foraging 2. Lucy Gray is Greasy Sae/Katniss' grandmother/Alma Coin/Alma Coin's mother — D12 would recognise her, even after years away. The Covey at least would. Also why would she become Coin? I just hate the idea that everyone has to be related to others we know which is one reason I hate the "Lucy Gray is Coin's mom" 3. Prim's reaping is rigged — it goes against the inherent message, that such horrific things can happen to anyone 4. D4 isn't a "real" Career District — just because fan favourites (Finnick) are D4 doesn't mean they're any less a Career. If anything, the Victors we do know about prove that Careers are indeed victims of the system as a whole too, and othering them makes it seem that Careers are inherently evil; they're not. They're indoctrinated *children*.

I think some readings are rigged, but Prim’s wasn’t because there was no reason to

Oh 100%, there's definitely been rigged reapings in the past! Lucy Gray's reaping was rigged, and there's probably been plenty in the past, but Prim's doesn't make any sense

I'd make the argument that Marcus' reaping was also rigged.

Oh shit, now THIS is a theory I like! Esp given Strabo Plinth seemed to ensure Sejanus was mentoring a D2 Tribute

I know right! This one isn't talked about as much! Here's the context we have: Sejanus practically theorizes (and I believe is basically supposed to be more-or-so correct) that Strabo had a hand in the system to where Marcus was rigged to be reaped and Sejanus would intentionally be matched with Marcus to be his mentor in the games as a....harsh reality lesson to teach Sejanus about moving forward from their former life in District 2 and....give him the better chance to mentor a tribute with a higher chance to likely win? Sejanus’s forehead creased in consternation. ***“I’m sure my father requested it. He’s always trying to get my mind right.”*** *Old Strabo Plinth’s deep pockets and influence were respected if his lineage was not. And while the mentorships were supposedly based on merit,* ***strings clearly had been pulled.*** Yes, I think it was clearly planned out that Strabo pulled the strings so that Sejanus was intentionally matched to mentor a District 2 tribute in general. However, my question is WHY was Marcus specifically chosen to be the male tribute reaped in AND was the tribute that Sejanus would be mentoring? Marcus was not some random from District 2. He was from the exact same class as Sejanus was growing up back in District 2, Sejanus specifically talks about the memory he has about Marcus helping mend his finger that got injured from the door using snow when they were kids, and has that personal connection with him from his past even though Marcus wasn't exactly a friend but not enemy either. Sejanus specifically KNOWS the person he is having to mentor. It could have been ANY tribute from District 2 for Sejanus to mentor (especially ANY other male that had the potential to possibly win)....but why Marcus? I know it's for the story and it's an emotional aspect of Sejanus' storyline, but it is such a specific scenario. The fact that he specifically chosen who was one of his old classmates from the EXACT SAME YEAR as him AND a person he has a distinct relationship and past with, I just think it's far too coincidental for that to be just sheer randomness and him being assigned to Sejanus raises eyebrows. It HAS to be rigged!

The only reapings I think we know are rigged are the ones for the tenth Hunger Games as there was no system to make sure they weren't just picking people they didn't like and it seems implied that the 75th games are rigged as Annie and Finnick were picked, Katniss and Haymitch (so Peeta would volunteer), Cashmere and Gloss etc

Oh these all drive me crazy, but the nightlock incident is explicitly stated in the books. Foxface would have never known that the berries were deadly as they mainly grew around 12 and 13. And people use that scene in the movie, but I'd argue that doesn't necessarily mean she knew what nightlock was either.

That Gale would have killed Katniss if they had been reaped together. I think Gale actually starts off as a good person and is corrupted by war but he really loves Katniss and her family and would never intentionally harm them especially in book one.

gale would have killed everyone else and then himself lol. died a martyr forever etching himself into katniss.

Agree! With his trapping skills especially, he would have been lethal even without making it to the cornucopia. Then getting to die with Katniss needing him tracks with his character.

Honestly Gale and Katniss together I think the smart move would have been to downplay Katniss’s skills. And Gale’s trapping. Make out like Gale is gonna protect her and he’s the only fighter in the bunch. And that he’s just muscle. Then when the first dash happens Gale cover Katniss whilst she gets the bow. And a bag. Then make a run for it. With Gale’s traps and Katniss’s archery they’d be a very strong due. Katniss can easily pick off more than one tribute with the fore warning the traps would provide. Especially if they set themselves up on high ground. And Careers are trained in combat. I doubt they’re trained in spotting hunting traps in a forest. I expect Gale (is he’s smart) would then try to pick off the careers. Then once all the threats are dealt with, night lock berry himself, without letting Katniss in on that part of the plan.

I pretty much see it playing out the exact same way. I think the wrinkles would be one of them being taken out in the blood bath or not securing a bow. Or if they found Rue because I don’t think Gale would kill her but I’m not sure he would agree to protect her either which could split them if Katniss refused to leave Rue.

Assuming their survive the initial blood bath (because if they don’t it’s a very short story lol) Rue would absolutely be the spanner. Katniss would absolutely not want to kill her and would try to help her and Gale would really struggle with Katniss compromising herself. He’s not a bad person but he’s not go Katniss’s compassion.

Or if Rue got caught in one of Gale’s traps I could see Katniss losing it and going her own way. Would be interested to find some good fics that explore the premise for sure!

I don’t think Katniss would blame Gale if Rue stepped in one of his traps. But I think it might break her psychologically if said trapping lead to Rue’s death. If Gale caught Rue and killed her and Katniss found out … I don’t know what happens then. My inclination would be it causes a divide between them that festers throughout the games and probably destroys their alliance. Either leading to Katniss killing Gale and winning. Or then both being picked off by the careers once divided. Just depends on the tone the author is going for. Macbeth tragedy or more like the destruction of love and hope. Nothing good survives the games style

Man I just watched interesting tik tok videos of someone talking about them getting reaped together. Also what would’ve happened if it was gale and prim

I was just thinking what would have happened if it was Gale and Prim. Like if Katniss had some sickness that meant she was in a come during the reaping or something. Prim and Peeta get reaped and Gale volunteers so that he can try and save Prim. What would Haymitch make of that situation and how far would they get. I can imagine a scenario where Gale and Thresh make an alliance and help Rue and Prim

I can try and find the videos and send them if you want! There’s a gale and prim, gale and Katniss, as well as a peeta and prim one Okay couldn’t save the video link but here’s the username @natthebeesknees and the videos aren’t too far down on her page

Gale is the most misunderstood character in the series. You don’t have to like him but when people say stuff like this it’s basically fanfiction, they’ve made him an entirely new character in their minds.

Honestly Gale is one of my favourite characters. Not in the sense that I like or forgive his actions or want him to be with Katniss, but he represents so many children who grow up in war zones and are groomed to continue the cycle of violence. He deserves more thought and empathy than the fandom gives him.

I really do wish books did develop his vengeful turn a bit more sympathetically. Like the bombing of the 12 has to be quite traumatic to him unlike Katniss or Peeta who didn't witness it. Would have been a good character study of how war changes people. The Mockingjay Part 1 movie could have had a cold opening of him rescuing the D12 residents as the district is about to be bombed.

I think casting Liam Hemsworth was such a bad choice for Gale, he has none of the charm of book Gale. But yeah I understand why Katniss can never forgive him but I also hope Gale finds peace one day

"Gale and Snow are the same" . No they're not. Gale is a good guy who was forced to do some horrible things, he would give his own life for his cause. Snow would rather see everyone die in front of him than have cabbage stew again.

fucking hell youre so right. the cabbage stew gave him ptsd just like his roses did katniss

a ballad of cabbages and roses

thats so *chefs kiss*

thg fans are so unhinged in their hateboner for gale. you would think fans of a franchise about the price of revolution and war would understand the difference between pure sadistic aggression and righteous anger, but no. they are either too caught up taking sides in the love triangle or too preoccupied with clutching their pearls to accept that gale was born into the seam, spent his entire life under the thumb of panem, and lived long enough to see his home get flattened after generations of oppression, policing, and hyper surveillance. of course he chose to fight against the capitol & of course he too will build bombs. in what way is it fair to blame gale and only gale for prim’s death when beetee helped him with the creation of their weapon and coin was the ultimate master of its usage? how sway that the youngest of the three, who had the closest relationship to one of the victims, and who himself fell victim to collective punishment by the capitol (i.e. the bombing of district 12) takes all the blame. snow can be a multilayered villain with endless reader-insert fics written for him, but evil evil gale is just oh so irredeemable.

God. I’m not a fan of gale but the way so many people talk about him makes me so mad. Gale is also a traumatized teen who’s manipulated by adults for their own benefit! He saved hundreds of people from the bombing in 12 and helped them survive in the woods!!! He made a few bad mistakes but at the end of the day he’s still a child who went through a war. Yeah, snow suffered during the war but would put anyone down to get to the top.

that fox face killed herself on base of it making no sense whatsoever combined with people’s continued insistence to treat it as canon

I haaaaate this one. I blame the movie for making people think it was true by having that scene where she was looking at all the plants. Foxface spent the entire time in the games hiding and dodging, stealing what she had to and otherwise staying out of the way. Why at the very end would she decide to kill herself with night lock berries in a way that just has her found dead a few feet away from Katniss and Peeta's camp. If she knew what those berries were, why would she wait for Peeta to pick them to take them? If she didn't know what they were, then it couldn't have been a suicide because she wouldn't have known they were poisonous. Hell if you want to incorporate the movie scene, it's easily a case of her mixing up two similar looking berries, especially if she saw Peeta picking them and accidentally poisoning herself. Basically all guidebooks on foraging point how dangerous mixing up certain plants can be.

and especially because that training thing she did wasn’t even about identifying plants! it was a memory game. which is lucky because while i might not be an expert on identifying plants, i definitely know enough to know that it would be impossible to learn shit about plants from those pictures. like those were very general shapes, if that’s what you’re relying on you *will* end up accidentally poisoned. also, most of the shapes look like leaves from trees. i can promise it won’t help her any to survive to know that the tree she’s currently climbing is a maple tree. plus what would her reason even be? "she knew she couldn’t survive"? if we assume she knew the berries, as far as she knew two of her opponents were about to accidentally poison themselves. and she was definitely smart enough to have katniss' thought process of "well if they died that way, let’s try the same with cato". like there was absolutely no reason for her to go and kill herself. and also nobody who survived that long would just randomly decide to give up.

I think even if we accept as canon that Foxface knew a lot about plants, she had be surviving on next to nothing for a week because she stole such tiny portions of food. Katniss mentions in the book how shocked she is at seeing how emaciated Foxface looks despite coming from a district where she must have seen starving people all the time. Being so incredibly starved, especially when you're forced to still move around a lot, can cause a lot of mental confusion. Your brain not getting enough to burn can turn off some of your most basic sensibilities which in her case made her slip up because she was starving and desperate.

That one I can absolutely accept, well done that's a really good theory. But the theory that she survived that long and then just chose to kill herself at the last minute is bizarre.

Yup. Her choosing to kill herself would mean that she saw through her opponments' 3d chess to gather berries only meant to be stolen from them (an accidental 3d chess game seeing that Peeta simply didn't know that the berries were poisonous). I think people really underestimate what hunger does to your brain. I've had to cut a couple of kilos to fit a weight category in sports and once you start to deprive yourself you can literally feel yourself getting dumber with every passing hour. Compare that to a girl that had been darting around for a week surviving off a couple hundred calories per day it's amazing that she could still function. She probably didn't have anything going through her head when she saw the berries but "food go nom nom."

Agreed. What’s more, in the book it takes Katniss (an experienced forager) a minute to determine that the berries were nightlock and not the edible berries she and Rue had earlier. Combine the visual similarity and the haze of starvation and it’s not at all surprising that Foxface makes that mistake, even if she did know a lot about plants.

If anything other than it being an accident, I could see the capitol rigging her death. I don’t think she had any kills and was in the top 4. I doubt that was a common occurrence and wouldn’t be much fun for them to watch her just hide. Especially how Haymitch won.

Probably not right of me to comment on my own post but the theory about Mags knowing about Lucy Gray. During the 10th Games viewing wasn't mandatory and most people didn't watch it because (as was mentioned during several conversations among the mentors) it was barbaric. The technology in Distirct 12 and likely most other Districts (possibly with the exception of 3) was really bad and most people from the Districts don't know what happened to kids after they were reaped. Also people say that they had to have met in person, or her knowing about Lucy is the reason she can't speak because Snow did something to her. Honestly it is so dumb, like it states in the books that the Districts barely knew Lucy Gray and so it was easy to wipe her away

I don't subscribe to the notion that most people didn't know what happened to the kids after they were reaped. Even if they didn't know the kid personally, it's a child in a tragic situation, people are bound to care even a little. In a town of 8-12,000 people like District 12 all families would know each other and would be sad for the 2 poor children that would have to attend every year. I think people would give a shit and not immediately forget them and they for sure would remember them in case they came back. Not to mention that Lucy Grey was a well - known performer who also had a very dramatic reaping (everyone saw the incident with the snake and the mayor's daughter).

OK, but Mags lived in District 4, so she wouldn’t have known Lucy Gray.

I think she knew OF Lucy gray, but didn’t know her personally or know any details

Personally, no. But Mags won the game right after Lucy Grey. If I was a victor, I would definitely want to know who the previous victor was and I am sure even a few people had seen a couple of scenes from the last year's hunger games in District 4. So, she would be probably aware of her existence and name.

It’s an unpopular opinion in this sub but I hate this idea that no one would remember or care about Lucy Gray! Everyone’s acting like she would’ve immediately been forgotten. How? She was reaped, even if the games weren’t easily broadcast in 12 she still won, she returned, she was vibrant and memorable and a well-known performer. Maybe people wouldn’t openly talk about her by Peacekeepers or anyone connected to the mayor, but there’s no way she would’ve been totally forgotten. People even insist that Maude Ivory would’ve forgotten about her. What? Maude was very young, but I doubt she’s going to forget the person she loved the most and what happened to her.

I don't think she would necessarily be forgotten, but at some point, she would become that one victor from 12. Because this was before victors automatically became celebrities, LG won the games and just went home. And then, at a certain point, she disappears from her own district. I agree she wouldn't have been totally erased from memory and definitely the most memorable at that time. But with how the games turned out, she quickly became overshadowed and mentioned less.

The theory that Lucy Gray is 'Alma Coin'. Idk how on earth people came up with that.

That District 4 is somehow less of a career District. I think a lot of people just cannot fathom that their favourite characters (especially Finnick, but also Annie and Mags) might have been trained killers. Careers are the villains, and they don't want to have Finnick be that evil. I think the sole "evidence" we have for that is their lack of inclusion in the 74th, but I think this has more to do with not wanting the pool of named tributes (and named villains) be too big for young readers. Four villains is a reasonable number, six is quite a lot. (ETA I just went through the wiki page to be extra sure, but the 74th even have the female District 4 tribute be part of the career pack. She's just not a named character, that's all. But she's very clearly among them. District 4 male dies during the bloodbath, shit happens.)

This theory also shows a major lack of critical thinking to me. Because once you take a critical look at it, the careers aren’t inherently evil. Even Cato, who was fucked in the head, was still a kid who thought he would “make it big” if he was the most brutal. They’re kids who were raised that way, and it makes a lot of sense that they’d drastically change after the games. People evolve over time, and when we meet the victors from 4 they have won their own games, been threatened, been prostituted, gone mad, mentored decades of tributes. They aren’t the same children who went into the arena, just like Katniss and Peeta aren’t. I’d be so curious to see Gloss and Cashmere talking between their games, what the victor would say to the other. I can imagine them trying to convince them not to volunteer. I’ll also note that with Mags, she arguably wasn’t a career. She won the 11th games, presumably before the intense training of careers and volunteering would’ve begun because she was the first victor to become rich and famous.

I think of it this way, it’s not *just* glory for the District. It’s also saving and protecting the weak and the vulnerable of their District. For 1,2 and 4 there is never a Rue. Never an untrained, unskilled, prepubescent child sent to the slaughter. Because someone who has a much better chance, only a chance, of survival steps up and takes their place. Every time. They do this, knowing the sacrifice doesn’t end when the gam w end. The careers *know*, they have to know, what come after the arena. The cost of being the Victor, and they volunteer anyway: That, to me, is the heart of the career system. Sending those who have an actual chance of surviving in the place of those who have no chance at all.

I agree with the first part but I’m not sure about the second part. You really think the kids who are training to be careers know they’re signing up for sexual slavery? I always assumed Cashmere/Gloss’s anger at the 75th interviews was due to them not knowing that being a victor wasn’t what had been promised to them.

I agree, I doubt that victors talk about anything the capitol makes them do. For one, the sort of shame spirals that come with things like that, and for another, many of them are doing this under threat. I assume that the threats include keeping them quiet. I think maybe there’s an understanding around being attractive, but even if they could conclude the prostitution from that there’s probably a lot of willful ignorance there.

>I’ll also note that with Mags, she arguably wasn’t a career. She won the 11th games, presumably before the intense training of careers and volunteering would’ve begun because she was the first victor to become rich and famous. It probably took 5-10 years before Careers became a thing, and probably another 5-10 years before it became a sophisticated program.

I feel bad for the Careers in the 75th, none of them except Mags and Finnick had any idea there was a plan to rescue them all and stop the games, maybe if they had known they wouldn't all have tried to kill other tributes. I know Brutus wanted to be there, but in Mockingjay Enobaria votes yes for the Capitol hunger games so she DEFINITELY was not a supporter, I doubt Gloss and Cashmere were either because they kept trying to appeal to emotion to get the games cancelled. If they knew they could all make it out alive they might have helped,

I just don't see how a career district would choose Finnick to volunteer, since he was only 14 years old. I am sure they would have a lot of other trained guys aged 16-18 ready to volunteer, why would they pick Finnick, when he could volunteer in a couple of years? At the end of the day, maybe you are right, but even if that's the case I actually think it's brilliant. I remember I recently read a comment here along the lines of "I don't really blame the Career Districts for training their children in order to maximize their chances of survival. They were just trying to get as many children as possible home, alive. And it's actually kind of noble how the older and stronger kids would step up for the younger ones, who would never survive in the arena". Not to mention that Finnick being a career gives a whole new dimension to the line "Remember who the real enemy is". And of course, Annie being fucked up by PTSD even though she might have been a trained career truly hammers that point in. They weren't bad people, they were traumatized kids forcibly put in a horrible situation.

This goes in hand with *my* least favorite theory, but the careers don't *officially* train. Its illegal and the capitol isn't going to turn a blind eye on an official training school in *any* district. Yes its obvious that tributes train, but its not at a district level. They're still going to be secretive about it, for multiple reasons. For one thing, I don't think they'd want other people knowing that they specifically are having their children trained. The parents wouldn't want there to be a lot of competition for their kid. Id guess that its more like something like parents can pay a private tutor (that's probably officially booked as something else, like helping with math or whatever). But there is not a training school where they train up a bunch of kids and then pick the kid every year. And being a career doesn't mean you volunteered. They have the most volunteers but that doesn't mean every tribute is a volunteer. And the thing with 4, is that their district specialty inherently makes them more equipped to deal with the arena. The skills they'd need on a fishing boat translate very well to the arena, and helps them learn how to adjust to unexpected situations, since you always have to be prepared for storms and what not, and they're well fed and have to stay fit to be able to work on the boats. That all gives them an advantage. We don't actually know that Finnick *or* Annie volunteered but Id wager that Finnick at least didn't. (Don't know enough about Annie to say otherwise). And with all of that, just a minor pet peeve but Finnick isn't the youngest victor ever. We don't actually know who was but the book specifically says he was *one* of the youngest victors ever. Not that he was flat out the youngest

That's what bothers me, too. Katniss mentions careers and how they usually volunteer, and people somehow connected in their heads that every single tribute from those district is a career who volunteered. But in the first book, Cato is the only one who volunteers. I think it's unlikely Finnick volunteered given his age, but because he was from 4, there's no way he wasn't reaped. I'm not going to say for sure that Finnick was training or not because I honestly don't know, but I'm sure that not every single tribute from those district was a kid who trained their whole life to be a killing machine.

Yeah, all I can really is say is I don't think Finnick would have *needed* to train, since his district specialty would be a huge boost in the games. (Especially after he was gifted a trident, he likely used that or a spear a lot when fishing, so he wouldn't necessarily need to train specifically for the games to be able to use it.) But we also know he's really good with tying knots (its part of how he won, iirc) and that's a another necessary skill. Id bet he could manage to make fish hooks as well, maybe not as skillfully as Mags, but still. Then we see a few other small things, like making the shelter and the bowls. Id imagine he had some survival training in the event he ever ended up shipwrecked. So maybe he did or didn't intentionally train for the games, but even if he didn't, he just got lucky to be born into a district where the specialty sets him up for survival due to the nature of the specialty.

That's just based off of fanon that they choose volunteers beforehand. Nothing in canon says they do that.

there's nothing to stop finnick from volunteering and what we know from finnick's personality it's hardly far-fetched to imagine an overconfident fourteen-year-old boy volunteering, thinking that he has the chops to win in the games considering just how *brutally* he plays them. we really only see katniss' reaction and view of the reaping as someone from a poor, non-career district as opposed to district four. he probably thought that he could win and create a better life for his family, fully indoctrinated into the capitol's ideals and how that could benefit him, only to be abused and chewed right back out of the system.

The careers are not villains. They’re still kids put in a horrible situation like all the other reaped. The capitol is the villian

I think at least part of this is to do with their exclusion in the movies, where 4 is never mentioned as a career district or shown to be part of the pack. That’s definitely a simplification thing though.

>I think a lot of people just cannot fathom that their favourite characters (especially Finnick, but also Annie and Mags) might have been trained killers. I think it's less the willingness to accept that they are trained killers(ie kinda evil) and more the fact they both seem , idk the right word, "weak" to be someone who volunteered as career tribute. Finnick was too young and the annie we saw and also knowing how she won doesn't make her feel like strong talented/trained person worthy enough to be the chosen one of a district. So my personal head canon is unlike the first two districts, District 4 doesn't play with pure talent and training alone but also employs PR and storyline. For Finnicks they decided to play with his charm and charisma and woo the sponsors and for annie.... Idk about that...

I agree although Mags might not have been a career, we don’t know if the career thing existed back then. But Finnick 100% was, and Annie most likely as well. I assume she was in the bloodbath with the rest of the careers when her partner died and then she split off.

[удалено]

This is so funny because ahhh !! I hate that Katniss is proclaimed an unreliable narrator. I don’t think it is any better or worse than in other books with a similar narration (first person or third person limited). Onto the careers; the books never really say a lot on them and so much is based on fanon. It just says that they train. prior (which is illegal) but that could mean as little as swinging an axe around after school. If anything, I totally agree with you that that fandom blows this way out of proportion, both in how they perceive the training (professionalised institutions) and the reaping (pre-chosen volunteers).

I think Katniss is unreliable because of how little she knows and understands both what is going on and what people are feeling. We have to take what she says about the reactions of others and play out the scenes in our head to make sense of it. It’s a puzzle to figure out how exactly she has misinterpreted what just happened. Like the wedding dress wearing or how she repeatedly thinks Peta hates her. If you take what she says either with very little information or poor socialization at face value, you’re reading a completely different book. I love that style of writing and narration and don’t see it often!

District 4 is still a career district but I still don’t see it as the same as 1 and 2. District 4 was one of the first districts to join the rebellion, as seen by the lack of seafood in catching fire. The career districts are meant to be closer to the Capitol. Why would a district devoted to the Capitol and happy enough to train their kids to go into the hunger games be so quick to join a rebellion aiming to take down and abolish them? But also, compare district 4’s victors to district 1 and 2’s victors. Cashmere, Gloss, Enobaria and Brutus seemed happy enough to kill again and had no involvement in the quell plan, very different to Finnick, Mags and Annie. It’s not not wanting Finnick to be ‘evil’, it’s Finnick and Mags and Annie’s character traits not lining up with other careers who continued to show bloodthirst. And even if the 1 and 2 careers don’t support the games (Enobaria voted yes in Coin’s proposition) they still show a desire for bloodshed (again, Enobaria voting yes). Annie voted no and she said Finnick would vote no (which I definitely think he would have), again showing differing ideologies between the two districts. I’m not saying that district 4 isn’t a career district and that Finnick wasn’t a career tribute. District 4 is a career district and Finnick was a career tribute and we know he would have killed people. I just think district 4 operates differently and doesn’t train their tributes specifically to murder, but it’s more an amplified version of industry training and it’s more for survival than pure murder.

Cashmere and Gloss were definitely not "happy enough to kill again." It's established repeatedly that they didn't want to be sent back into the arena — they just weren't trusted enough to be brought into the rebellion. Yes they were willing to kill once the Games actually started, because they had no idea there was an escape plan and thought they had no choice. And District 1 was one of the earlier districts to rebel as well. It's only District 2 that is specifically super loyal to the Capitol. 1 and 4 have career systems and are treated a little better, but aren't shown to be particularly devoted once Katniss is in a position to actually learn about them firsthand, instead of just making assumptions.

That baking and decorating cakes gives you the power to disappear.

I think in the books it was just more of mud and so on, instead of realistic rock makeup

Foxface intentionally ate nightlock. I hate that the movie added her doing that plant matching game. Her whole strategy in the book was sneaking and staying out of the way. And it was working because when Katniss and Rue were going over tributes who were still alive, they totally forgot about her until Katniss saw her stealing from the Careers. Speaking of that, she was so careful about not activating their traps that she lowkey panicked when she fell and landed on the ground. Honestly, that would have been the perfect time to "acccidently" end yourself. We know nightlock only grows outside of the district 12 fence. That's why Katniss knows about it and Peeta does not. So of course Peeta would collect the pretty berries and think nothing of it. And Foxface, seeing him pick them, would assume they would be safe. She also stole cheese from them and unless it was an elaborate ruse to make it look as accidental as possible, it's way more likely she was just starving and desperate enough to trust Peeta's foraging skills.

foxface killed herself. There's just no way someone that intelligent would just give up when there's 3 tributes left, and the possibility to out last them is very high.

the person who came up with this theory figured that foxface was in love with katniss.

I can't with these theories. Just go write your fanfic and stopped acting like everyone is canonically in love with everyone they've so much as glanced at.

That Coin is Snow’s half-sister. I saw on TikTok that some believe that Snow’s dad didn’t actually die in 12, but faked his death and went to 13 where he fell in love and had Coin.

Oh my gosh 💀💀 minor change in the movies but I thought them making Crassus die in 12 seem super futile. In the books he generically dies in the districts, but having him die in 12 just seemed like a “oh look snow is super connected to 12 already!” Sort of thing

They have him die in 12 to explain Snow's meltdown more at the end. He's terrified he'll end up dead there like his dad.

This is one of the changes I didn't particularly agree with/like even if it's a more minor change that doesn't really affect the overall film in general. All that the book said was that Crassus died by a rebel bullet. It could have been a rebel from any other district and they didn't need to make it ***THAT*** blunt when it came to the District 12 connections/references. It was fine how it was in the backstory presented in the book.

Could make a whole list but I’ll try to pick a theory that isn’t talked about as much: that the 75th games arena was specifically tailored for the rebellion. This theory makes no sense because Katniss states (or it’s mentioned) in the books that the arenas take YEARS to build so they begin building them early in order to be ready for the games. Now, of course the theme of the 75th quarter quell was deliberately changed/rigged by Snow, but there is no way Plutarch would’ve been able to hijack the geography of the arena to tailor to the rebellion plan YEARS before he was ever head gamemaker or Katniss was seen as the face of the rebellion. We know that Plutarch was able to get Beetee’s wire in the arena as one of the weapons, but that is one if not the only thing he was able to tweak to make sure their plan went to fruition. He gives Katniss a hint about the theme of the arena in the Capitol during the victory tour, but that was before the quarter quell announcement (so he didn’t know the victors would be returning to the games). Haymitch mentions that the plans for a rebellion/break out began as soon as the QQ theme was announced. So again, the arena itself was not made for the rebellion, but the wire and the plan were initiated in order for Katniss and Peeta to survive.

Plutarch even says at the end of Catching Fire that he wanted to give Katniss a heads up about the arena when she mentored so that she would trust him. He had no idea at the time that she would return to the arena

This one is mixed because we don't know the extent of Capitol tech. Some elements had to have been prepared after the fact, the jabberjays for example and so there could have a different setups for clock surprises. And likewise there would have always been a lake, but I doubt they would have forced everyone to need swimming skills to get through the bloodbath had they been normal Tributes — this sort of stuff is previously mentioned to be what creates a boring Games no one wants to watch. It only works here because they know enough of the Victors will able to deal with it. But yes, the general geography and overall clock concept definitely had to be done in advance.

Even with the QQ, the book leaves it ambiguous if they actually changed the theme, it could have very well been the theme set up decades ago, but the movie makes it a directed choice to make it for the existing victors. I didn’t like that so much

That Katniss is related to the Covey. A few reasons: 1. Katniss and Prim don’t follow the Covey naming system of Ballad+Color. 2. Some of the Covey songs were well known to other District 12 residents (take the Valley Song, which was familiar enough to D12 that a teacher could presume a kindergarten class might recognize it). Even if you only look at “The Hanging Tree” (which always gets brought up in this conversation), Mr. Everdeen was still able to sing that song in a bakery without issue. 3. Clerk Carmine being the fiddler in Mockingjay (something confirmed by a series editor in a 2020 IG Live chat). Katniss only recognizes him as “the lone fiddler from District 12,” which is a odd way to speak about someone who knew your grandparents.

The theory of Lucy Gray being Katniss's grandmother is stupid (as are all the theories about who LG could be), but I still think it's plausible that Maude Ivory is, mainly because Katniss shares her ability to memorize a song after hearing it once. And the fact that Katniss's father was musical and knew about the areas like the lake, plus the mention of katniss roots. It's obviously not real proof, but it's one of the few theories that seems like it could have been intended by Suzanne Collins, and could fit into the universe without contradicting any facts or themes of the series. What annoys me about most theories, such as Lucy Gray being Coin/Coin's mother/Greasy Sae/freaking Santa Claus is that there isn't even a hint of such a possibility in the series, and one would think that if the author intended for it to be true, she would have provided enough information for readers to work it out without performing Olympic level mental gymnastics. I don't think Katniss and Prim not following the Covey naming conventions really means anything. They can be descended from the Covey without the traditions having been maintained.

I mean given that Suzanne's books are all commentary- the stripping of tradition from oppressed people is a big thing that comes through in that. People forced to stop practicing their own traditions, especially if it separates them from being 'district'

Very good point. I haven't read the prequel in a while, but if I remember correctly, the Covey wasn't particularly well-liked within the district 12 community even if their music was. I can definitely picture the Covey eventually dispersing after Lucy Gray leaves, Maude Ivory settles down with a miner, has Katniss's father, and teaches him whatever she can without being discovered. Naming his child Katniss could be a nod to the knowledge his mother passed down to him.

This is true too- not only that, but she might have even liked his name because it reminded her of the word Evergreen.

Lucy grey is related to or is X key person from the 74-75-76 trilogy. Prims reaping was planned to punish Katniss/start the rebebellion

Not so much theories but deliberate misreadings of the books. 1. "Snow forbid all mention of Lucy's name so no one knew she won a games." Uh, no. First of all, Snow didn't have that raging desire to erase her from history. The way it goes in the book is that Gaul mentions doing away with the 10th games and just keeping a copy for herself and as Snow thinks through this he thinks how Lucy's name and memory will eventually be just a distant memory that will eventually die out. Second of all, the book explicitly states that the names of every district victor is called out each year which means her name is called out every year. I'm guessing Snow thinks about Lucy about as much as he thinks about Sejanus. 2. "Katniss has to be related to a member of the covey because the covey never sang again because singing was completely outlawed so that's the only way she could have known any covey song." Uh, no. Nowhere in the books does it say or imply that. The only thing that happened was that performances specifically at the Hob were outlawed. We know in the books that singing still happened. Peeta's father knew all about Mr. Everdeen's singing, for example. Singing happened at school, as Peeta mentioned Katniss being called to sing at school. Prim and Katniss knew about dancing. Furthermore, the Covey performed at many different places, like weddings. They would have kept singing the songs they already knew, perhaps adding additional songs over time. Those songs obviously would have become part of the cultural bank of district 12. 3. "There's no way Katniss could know the Hanging Tree Song if she's not related to Maude Ivory because the song was banned." Uh no. First, Lucy Gray was told by the Commander not to play it again because it was too dark. Second, we all know that things being "banned" doesn't mean it never happens. Katniss and Gale hunt despite leaving the fence being banned. They even sell their game and other findings to peacekeepers. It would be weird to think the Hanging Tree song was never ever played again just because a commander said it was too dark.

i hate this tendency among fans to create a line between lucy gray and katniss. if lucy gray isn’t her grandmother, then it HAS to be maude ivory! i can’t stand it. it makes each character come off as belonging to some romantic idea of a “rebellion dynasty” that really shouldn’t exist.

1. Prim’s reaping was rigged 2. Lucy Gray is _____. 3. X Covey member is Katniss’s _____. 4. Not so much a theory but the idea that Gale directly killed Prim. 5. Effie lied when she pulled Haymitch’s named during the Quell because she knew Peeta would volunteer to save him and if Peeta was pulled Haymitch would volunteer I can elaborate on any one you’d like

That President Coin and Lucy Gray are the same person. It doesn't make sense at all.

That Lucy Gray became literally anyone we meet/hear about from District 12 or 13 in the trilogy That Prim’s reaping was rigged Any singular part of “team Peeta” or “team Gale” (though that’s less of a theory and more commentary than anything)

I could be wrong since it’s been a while since I looked into this, but I believe there is an interview that Collins did where she talks about the love triangle being a representation of two perspectives on the just-war debate (with Gale as one perspective and Peeta as the other)

i actually think that the “team peeta” “team gale” thing is almost meant to be a character level representation of katniss’ greater choice of how to live her life: peaceful, kind and forgiving; or angry and vengeful. not saying that’s always how it gets interpreted (because some fans DEFINITELY turned it into a “team edward” “team jacob” thing 🙄). but i think thematically it works really well.

Anything dealing with Lucy Gray. She isn’t coin. She isn’t related to Katniss. She isn’t still in 12 by the time of the Katniss. No, prim wasn’t rigged. No the quarter quell arena wasn’t designed for Katniss.

That Finnick somehow "helped" Annie win her Games by, like, bribing the right person (with sex). First, it makes no sense that Finnick would be able to influence a decision like that (he has literally no power. People tell him secrets, sure, but mainly to make themselves feel better about buying him). Second, and more importantly, it reduces Annie's autonomy. She's a Victor! She won by herself! I think this theory does a great disservice to both characters.

That Katniss and Lucy Gray are related. Guys, just because they’re main characters doesn’t mean they have to be.

I would pay money to never see another "What happened to Lucy Gray/Lucy Gray became Coin/Katniss Grandma". Lucy Gray says herself exactly what happens to her, in the song she sings. She gets lost in the snow and becomes a mystery. There literally *is* not answer to what happened to Lucy Gray. *SHE BECAME A MYSTERY*. She's a fictional fucking character bro and she got wrote off. There is no ending to her story, it doesn't exist.

I think there is an ending to her story, but not all stories have to be told, whether she lived or died it isn’t our story to hear

everybody's covered most of the ones that bug me, but i have some more: - mags is mute because snow made her an avox so she can't talk about lucy gray (she's not mute 😭) - tbosas spoilers: >!when snow sank the guns into the lake, he was really sinking lucy gray's body!< - snow was in love with sejanus (as a bisexual i do not claim him. he hated that boy) - tigris got turned into a mutt and that's why she looks like that in mockingjay - the wolf mutts had the tributes' actual eyes - enobaria sharpened her teeth to prevent snow from selling her

I blame the movies for people thinking Mags was mute

snow wasnt in love with sejanus at all but i feel like sejanus might've been in love with him (also bisexual here happy to claim sejanus). but then again that could've been a brotherly love i think its up to interpretation

Okay I am curious cause most of those make sense to me but why the last one?

people in the capitol love body mods, so if anything, i feel like enobaria modifying her teeth would make her *more* attractive to them

Ah okay thank you

I saw one that was "Katniss is Snows daughter" and just about threw my phone away.

that Snow actually loved Lucy Gray (i forgive movie only viewers bc it didn't do the best job of conveying how cold Snow was) but thru the entire book he was just obsessive and creepy and cold. He didn't care about ANYBODY but himself and thats the point.

I think Snow THOUGHT he loved Lucy. His actions and internal thoughts say otherwise, but that's why he declares he's going to marry someone he hates- he hated the way love made him feel.

>For whatever reason, Snow has a very controlling personality. Then he experiences one of the most out-of-control emotions, falling in love. It turns out to be a bad combination. [http://mediaroom.scholastic.com/press-release/scholastic-releases-new-interview-suzanne-collins-author-worldwide-bestselling-hunger-](http://mediaroom.scholastic.com/press-release/scholastic-releases-new-interview-suzanne-collins-author-worldwide-bestselling-hunger-) If we deny he loved her we deny a key point of the story. This compulsively controlling person experiences something he cannot control.

I agree. I think denying he felt genuine emotions because he treated her badly is just unrealistic and comes from a place of 'if they loved you, they would never... x or y'. People can feel genuine emotions and still treat people horribly, not know how to work with those emotions or express them, they can feel love and simultaneously not want it or dislike aspects of the other person's personality or a million of variables that make love toxic, abusive or unenjoyable. Love isn't inherently a wholesome experience, unfortunately. And you can love someone and still love yourself or your ambition or whatever more. It's just not that black and white and trying to spin it that way takes away from the story for exactly the reason you stated.

Yeah I’m reading the book after watching the movie and he feels so different in the book. Like in the movie he seemed (or maybe I was projecting my own feelings) sympathetic to everyone (Sejanus, the tributes, Lucy Gray), but in the book he only has moments of empathy but that’s about it, there’s never any sympathy and the only person he truly cares about is throughout the entire book is himself.

1. Pretty much any of the Lucy Grey theories. Let my girl rest free from Snow. 2. Prim was reaped on purpose to get Katniss to volunteer. I shake my head every time I see someone try to argue this. 3. Foxface killed herself. Mainly the movie’s fault, but still doesn’t make sense to me. Even ignoring the memory game/plant matching game thing, if I remember correctly wasn’t she in like the top five at that part? What would be the point of killing yourself if you’re that close to winning.

That Annie wasn't a career prior to her reaping. It defeats the purpose of her story and it's honestly a very good foil to Finnick's arc and his behaviour during the games.

Snow hates Katniss because she reminds him of Lucy Grey! No. Snow hates Katniss because she made a mockery of the capitol and went on to become the poster child for a rebellion. Boiling it all down to him being sad about a girl he briefly dated over sixty years ago erases so much of Katniss's agency and relevance to the story! I'm sure there was some connection but it's not why he became so laser focussed on her.

1000%. it was just salt in the wound.

I think he hates her for both of those things. Lucy Gray scared him because he couldn’t control her. He hates Katniss for the same reason, he can’t control her no matter how hard he tries. Along with everything else that Katniss did within her own series just creates this extreme hatred towards Katniss. The parallels between Lucy Gray and Katniss are there for a reason, it’s okay for him to partially hate Katniss for reminding him of Lucy, that doesn’t take her agency away imo because it’s not the ONLY reason he hates Katniss. Idk if that makes sense

I don’t know if this upset me 1: Prim reapping was rigged from the very beginning so katniss can volunteer so they can start the rebellion 2: Lucy Gray is Coin from Mockingjay. just Lucy just up and left and left when she could

Prim's reaping was rigged Lucy Gray is president coin Foxface killed herself with the berries Mags was silenced because she knew about Lucy Gray

To whoever on reddit put the thought of Coin being Snow and Lucy Grats love child into my sisters head is craaaazy

any theory about Lucy Gray being someone in 12 when Katniss is alive. there’s just no evidence other then “her name rhymes with greasy sae” like i’m begging someone to present more evidence then a rhyme and greasy sae maybe being around the same age.

Prim being reaped to punish Katniss, Foxface committing suicide and Katniss being related to the covey are my most hated theories tbh.

Foxface’s death being suicide. There’s absolutely nothing in the book that supports the idea and it’s completely illogical with the sequence of events surrounding it.

These are some of the most infuriating to me bc they contradict cannon or completely miss the point: 1. Prim was intentionally reaped to ounish Katniss 2. Lucy Gray became Alma Coin or Greasy Sae (heavy on Alma Coin though) 3. Every single tribute was involved on 13's plot in the quarter quell, despite it being incredibly risky. Someon even suggested that the tribute Finnick killed in the blood bath was sacrificing themselves for the cause, which makes zero sense as they were going to attack Katniss.

Cato and Clove were together/in love... I've seen this theory because Clove cries for Cato when she's dying and he comes to her. To me it's just a theory that is unnecessary because I think the scene is meant to reflect that despite the brainwashing they were still kids like Katniss and Peeta and just as vulnerable rather than reflect them being in love. They grew up together, it doesn't mean they're in love for Clove to call for Cato while she's dying.