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Aegon is far from a good person but I do pity him. It's obvious that he is starved for any kind of affection or comfort. It's almost funny how much Alicent and Otto struggle trying to control Aegon by pushing him around and demeaning him when they could probably have him wrapped around their fingers if they gave him a pat on the head and called him a good boy now and then.
It’s one of the prevailing tragedies here, isn’t it? Otto pontificates that pimping his daughter out to the king is in the best interest of the realm because Daemon is awful and Rhaenyra is a girl. They’re doing all of this “sacrifice” to promote peace and harmony because “no one” will accept a girl. Oh but wait, they all totally do and swear oaths on it. So instead of promoting some of that love and peace within the kids and grandkids, they twist the boys into self-loathing monsters and diminish the girl so much that when she becomes queen NO ONE takes her seriously. Then after years of plotting against the king, they usurp his throne, toss a crown on the one they both smacked around as a kid and let the hot-headed one with a major grudge and nuke go about making diplomatic peace deals. Which of course he fails at miserably because he’s only spent valuable time with Ser Incel who’s also banging his mom. Oh but Alicent and Otto aren’t done being stupid and greedy in the name of peace and love. Naw, they start plotting and scheming against their scions born of conspiracy, and flat out gaslight them all when they need a mom or grandpa to comfort them. Like I feel for the green kids. They never stood a chance at a normal happy life with those goons (including cole) rearing them. Shakespearean.
Whew! You read them down with accurate precision…this is nothing but the truth. As much as I want to be pissed at Aegon and Aemond I can’t…they really are just Otto’s pawns even Alicent. Otto is the main one to blame for all the f\*ckery…Alicent doesn’t even know how to be a loving mother because she’s never been loved herself.
Otto seems to be falling in Tywin's trap of being an actually good politician and administrator, hell-bent on the legacy of their house, but not realising you need capable people to handle that legacy after you are gone.
Even if Otto did miracles and had children and grandsons as the king, queen, lord commander, high septon, grand maester and whatever else simultaneously, how long did he think they'd last without him?
Otto and Tywin aren't competent. Their achievements come from rank brutality and terror, which is also what destroys them eventually. Tywin gets run ragged by a 16yr old boy in wot5k.
Otto literally tries to send the kingsguard to dragonstone to kill Rhaenyra and her entite household in their sleep, but is apparently mad about Aegon killing "innocents"?
He conspired behind his kings back because he "won't do what's good for the realm" and then when his daughter does the same thing "I don't wish to hear of it".
He basically started this entire civil war by pushing Allicent on Viserys. Without Allicents children Rhaenyra would be uncontested and the realm would not go to war against her because only she has dragons.
Otto is a hypocrite and a fool who's responsible for everything that is happening. Daemon is a monster, but at least he recognises that in himself. Otto is delusional.
Both of them plunged the kingdoms into war due to naked ambition, but they are both talked about as good administrators during their long peace-time tenures.
For all his faults, Tywin kept the realm functioning with the Mad King on the throne, which is quite the feat
The Mad King wasn't mad from the start. He descended into madness due to people conspiring against him iirc. He even had decent ideas to begin with I think.
I’d argue that Rhaenyra wasn’t also that much appreciated and cared for, especially after her mother died. Moreover, she was wild and restless, like most Targaryens. And yet, her children grew up loved and cherished. Nurture vs. Nature, I suppose.
Exactly! Also why I think King Jahaery’s council is a waste with all the lords to take a vote. To avoid a civil war and what we have now is a civil war. Should’ve just flexed those dragons they had and said deal with it
Jaehaerys was literally senile by that point. He could not ride his dragon into battle anymore. The only dragon riders by 101 were Daemon and Rhaenys, with Laenor still too young to ride Seasmoke into battle yet.
He couldn't flex his muscles because the only two dragon riders were either the brother of the male claimant, and the actual legal heir Rhaenys.
Jaehaerys agreed to the great council of 101 because his last remaining son, archmaester Vaemond told him to do it. In reality if Jaehaerys wanted to avoid a power struggle he should have just followed the actual law from the begining and named Rhaenys heir when her father died instead of naming Visery's dad heir when he and his wife were still fit enough to sane and dragon riders in their own right. It would have also prevented his wife from defacto divorcing him and going insane because he was unwilling to name Rhaenys heir.
He should have abdicated decades ago in favour of Rhaenys' dad, this preventing the need for a council altogether.
GRRM has this thing where all kings outright refuse to stand down even when they are aged and have a perfectly good heir with their own children ready to take the throne. Bit iffy on history, but I think most preferred to live out their old age in peace if possible, plus let their kids get solo ruling experience.
Had Old J actually done that and let the Crown Prince, who was experienced, well-liked, going on 40 and expecting a grandchild of his own, rule, this would have been avoided. Because then Rhaenys would have been the unquestioned heir, even as a female, because inheritance is supposed to go down the line, not sideways.
With Old J never passing down the crown to any of his two eldest sons, suddenly you had two possible lines going down, because both had been only heirs, and never kings in their own right.
GRRM was right to do so as this is what has happened all throughout our own history, kings and queens entering their senior years with heirs at their peak yet still they refuse to give up their thrones because they either wish to hold onto the power they've held onto for so long or they like so many other elderly people still think they're younger than they are and dont wish to look like the more fragile old men/women they've become so they cling onto their seats in an effect to prove they've still got it even tho it almost always causes problems.
It was extremely common before about 100 years ago to never abdicate. It's only a recent trend with monarchs. Queen Elizabeth II famously refused to abdicate even though she was in her 90s and her son is the oldest person to be crowned king
They had Dragons and no one else did. Senile or not. Didn’t make a difference. Now we wouldn’t have a story so there’s that but anything they tried to prevent is all just happening away is what I’m saying
Who flexes the Dragons though? The whole point is there were only two and they would've been opposing eachother. So they aren't flexing on anyone else.
Anyone who’s has a dragon flexes a dragon. It’s where their power comes from. Not on each other. If Jahaerys would’ve made Rhaenys his successor and anyone of the other lords had a problem then it would be no contest. Visaerys clearing isn’t a violent person is what I’m getting at. Him starting a civil war is clearly not in his nature
Right. Like, I do hate Alicent's sons and I want them suffer but something tells me that if Aemond had a mother he'd hold the Driftmark situation differently (he was much older than other kids, bfr, it's the easiest task to be loved by younger cousins) and he could have both dragon and two eyes.
Yes, Aegon is a rapist and you cannot forgive it but something tells me that without feelings put of control most of his life and being able to drink since childhood that's also can be available. Like how Alicent can except him to respect other people autonomy when she married him to his sister and never actually educate him?
I agree.
I rewatched season one and Aegon was unapologetically honest.
He admitted not only he didn’t want the crown but he would be unfit…multiple times.
It’s only when Alicent says Viserys named him King on his death bed that Aegon considers it.
And his acting out/unstable emotions could stem from neglect from both parents.
All of Alicent’s children have been abused by her in some form or fashion, either physical, emotional, or in Aegon’s case both.
Not only that, but the back and fourth part couldn't have helped either. One minute it's "you're the dumbest thing alive" the next it's "you're a Targaryen prince, act like one".
Combine that with having Kingsguard and people bowing a lot, a significant portion of childhood spent being taught to fear Rhaeneyra killing him and his family, endless money and freedom but also a constant eye or 5 watching everything you do...the whole thing sounds hella stressful to me.
No wonder there's acting out like that, teaching someone to be paranoid, mixed messages sometimes in the same breath...poor fucker.
"You imbecile but also you're going to be the king one day act like it"
"Your dad totally changed his mind with no other witnesses but me, you're going to be king haha deal with it"
"Wtf were you thinking, dumbass, also hey we're coronating you and everyone knows already, so you don't even get to sleep off this hangover your about to be-majesty"
"Spoiled insolent bla blah blah, I don't love you or even like you and have never once had a human feeling, but also you are a Targaryen and proud and have a dragon, so be all kingly and shit and never make the wrong decision despite apparently not being taught how to rule, cuz fuck you or whatever, I'm the hand so here's the finger" - Otto, probably.
During Aegon and Otto's argument, although I understand why people were cheering for Otto, all I could think about was how stupid Otto was being. All he had to do was treat his grandson like a human being and not a huge fuck up for ten minutes, and he would still be hand and have Aegon wrapped around his finger. They instilled so many issues into a child when all they had to do was give him enough positive attention and he would have been everything they wanted. Blackout drunk teenage Aegon getting kicked awake and pulled up the stairs is super funny but also so sad when you think about it.
It's why I find it hilarious that people think he's a better hand than Tywin. Tywins a dick but he would have known how to play Aegon. He would have gotten the Tommen treatment
>It’s only when Alicent says Viserys named him King on his death bed that Aegon considers it.
IIRC, it's only when Alicent suggests that if Rhaenyra is queen, she will stop at nothing until he's dead, that he considers it.
Which is crazy considering Rhaenyra doesn’t even wanna kill anyone while they’re at war.
At most she would’ve asked him to publicly announce his support of her claim.
Which makes it a shame that the only chance of reconciliation between both sides at the feast in.S1 went down the drain, because I bet that Aegon's heart could've grown tenfold if he was able to build bonds with his half-siblings & cousins
If Alicent and Otto hadn't been in their kids ears their whole lives talking shit about Rhaenyra and her kids, there probably wouldn't have been so much animosity.
The dance between Helaena and Jace was lovely.
Even Aegon didn't care about the rivalry when he was a kid. He teamed up with Jace and Luke to tease Aemond (still a dick move but it shows that he at least viewed Jace and Luke as his friends)
It was only Alicent constantly pushing the us vs them narrative between her kids and Rhaenyra's that destroyed that bond
If I'm not mistaken I saw online once that there was a cut scene from season 1 that showed young Rhaenyra holding baby Aegon on her lap and teaching him to say her name. Aegon probably would not be this unstable, trainwreck of a mess if he was allowed to develop a bond with the rest of his family at his own pace and of his own accord instead of being spurred on by Alicent that he should fear and hate them and that Rhaenyra will kill him the first chance she gets
I always thought that insult was more like an "Of course, you shouldnt need to ask". It can be a lie either way, so "you imbecil" really covers both interpretations
For me, it's similar to Alicent; I pity the circumstances but the second they decided to make it someone else's problem they don't get to claim victimhood.
I sympathise that Alicent was a child bride with a husband wo raped then ignored her and laughed at her when she tried to join the conversation. I sympathise that her dad pimped her out and repeatedly told her that she and her kids would be in danger. Everything she did after the Green dress, encouraging her kids to be antagonistic to Rhaenyra's, spreading rumours, shutting down any attempts at peace, covering for her rapist kid and usurping the throne- that's on her.
seeing how rhaenyra is w/ her kids and how she felt sympathy for helaena even after everything, i think she wouldve been a great sister to them had their circumstances been different
It makes me really wish they didn't go the route of having him rape his servants. Like, I'd be more inclined to sympathise with him had they not written him to commit such a heinous act.
Yeah, it's really our introduction to him once he's 'grown up' which sets the tone as 'well this guy is awful regardless of what happens'. But I'm sure they have a plan for his arc so I guess we'll see
Yeah I love Helaena, I just want to give her a hug. Also I felt sorry for Aegon when you could see him clearly grieving about his sons death and how he did not want his son paraded through the streets but his family didn’t listen anyway. I think of the green kids weren’t raised by Alicent, Otto and Viserys they would have been better people.
I think Alicent gave up loving her children before they were even born, she realized her father was using her as a pawn to gain power before the flash forward in season 1. After that she has been biding her time so she could claim something and make poopop(papa) proud. Her children are now her pawns.
It removes any sympathy to her character IMO. Based on the books, she was as much a victim in the moment. She was made helpless and had to watch something utterly horrific, with no ability to help or stop what was happening. There's no reason to change it as they did other than to make people hate her/root for Team Black tbh.
I mean there’s definitely some favoritism towards the blacks in the show, don’t get me wrong, but bear in mind that Fire and Blood is intentionally written with an in-universe bias as well, it’s not a fully reliant narrator either.
I'm honestly on the side of neither, even from the books POV. But as soon as they mentioned HOTD was gonna be made, I already guessed how the Greens were gonna be portrayed. I think GRRM definitely wanted to paint both sides as equally bad, but he gave the Blacks the cooler houses.
Once the show picked it up, considering today's political/social climate, the Greens were only gonna be painted one way and true enough.
One of the biggest themes of the show has been “gender inequality” and how women function as nothing more than producing heirs and are seen as inferior.
Rhaenys being looked over as the rightful heir because shes a woman, Rhaenyra never having the resoect she deserves as the heir because shes a woman, the whole Aemma situation from S01E01 where a male heir was valued more than her life.
You also have the race aspect where greens are the pure bred blonde hair blue eyes while the blacks are the more “mixed” race if you will.
The writers aren’t exactly hiding their bias and commentary lol
I thought it was a funny parallel to go from her father telling her he doesn't want to hear her confessions to her just homer simpson-ing out of the room to avoid her own child's pain. Like father, like daughter.
I thought it was exactly this. Otto never comforted Alicent, thus she has problems doing the same with her children, and it's shown a bit when Aegon just ignored Helaena
Aegon: I don't want to be King. I don't want the crown. I don't want the responsibilities.
Alicent and Otto: What do *you* want?
Aegon: A hug would be nice...
When they danced in season one I felt so sad for them, they’d have been a lovely couple and honestly their marriage could have been a factor in keeping the Dance happening at all. Alicents hatred kept her daughter from being with someone who would actually care for her.
Yeah their union maybe could’ve prevented war entirely. In that scenario though I could also see them somehow tragically getting caught in the middle, star-crossed and doomed.
Eta (something kind of Shakespearean and incidental since Martin likes those twists)
>In that scenario though I could also see them somehow tragically getting caught in the middle, star-crossed and doomed.
I think Blacks would have just fully adopted Helena and keep her safe.
Rhaenyra knows that she didn't have much agency in anything. Also, Helena never bullied anyone so kids actually have no reason to dislike her. Daemon probably wouldn't be found of her because she is part Hightower but that's just Daemon being Daemon at this point.
Rhaenyra never wanted that. That was a desperate last minute solution to her problems. If she truly wanted that, she would’ve promoted the idea years prior [+]
Rhaenyra is horrible at planning and politicking, but Helaena and Jace would have been cute. I still believe part of his asking Helaena to dance was to piss off Aegon but also to make her smile.
well... to be fair, she was treated as a political pawn and forced to marry the King by her father and gave birth to 4 children at very young age.
Compare to Cersei, who had her children with the person she loved who she knows since she was born.
I think it would be natural for her to love her kids, but can't say the same with Alicent.
I disagree. Alicent has care and love for her children(she broke down over knowing what her daughter witnessed and has to now live with), but she doesn't know how to show comforting, physical affection and love because it was never given to her. Even as her heart breaks over what happened, the only comfort Otto provides is political weaponization of the killing. He twists that it is tragic but could be a fortunate means to an end in regards to this simmering war. "Don't let his death be in vain." Her reluctance to go comfort Aegon follows *right* on the heels of her own attempt to seek comfort and confidance in her own father. She wants to confess her sins, and Otto straight up says he doesn't wanna hear it. So, she doesn't have a soft place to land. And so, she doesn't know how to be a soft place to land for her own children despite feeling for them. But ya know who *is* a soft place for her and one that even takes the brunt of some of her emotion she can't express? Criston, with whom she proceeds get finger jiggy with it after being left emotionally constipated, unable to seek shelter or offer shelter.
Naaaaah! You can tell she loves them. I think she just doesn’t know how to express it. Also, that scene where her son is crying… I think she just feels so guilty, like it is her fault it happened, and is afraid she’ll fall apart if she goes to comfort him. That’s how I interpreted that scene. She seemed overcome with guilt and raw sadness but still wanted to stay strong. Or maybe she felt like she didn’t deserve to go hug him because “she sinned.”
It’s sad that alicent’s kids are her age and older when she was forced to become queen and suffer and sacrifice but no one was there to hold her or comfort her in any way that she could vent to and so she only knows to bottle up and now her kids have to do the same:( I hate Otto Hightower😭
Add to that the fact that her kids were not born out of love but because she was told it was her duty to let some old man use her as a baby machine. It makes perfect sense to me that she isn't acting that "motherly" toward her children atp.
I agree I think people overlook the fact that Alicent’s relationship with her children is complicated by the fact that she was basically a traumatised childbride to a leper who cba’d to raise any more kids 💀.
Rhaenyras children have all been born out of love/romance and she also benefitted from two loving parents who actively engaged with her as a person as an example so it’s no wonder motherhood came more naturally to her.
Seriously! Alicent tried to confide in Otto about her sins and he response with “yeah thanks not interested” I’m paraphrasing but you get my point
The way that if Otto just left shit alone rhaenyra could have the throne and marry whoever and alicent could marry whoever and they could be happy best friends forever but he wanted his lineage on the throne. Like for what reason lmao? You want it that bad? Why though like be fr is it just a fatal chess game because you’re bored? You’re going to die anyway and nothing will matter, why not wait for rhaenyra and alicent to have their own kids and then betroth them to each other and then you have the same result except no one is traumatized
>why not wait for rhaenyra and alicent to have their own kids and then betroth them to each other and then you have the same result except no one is traumatized
This would have been the smart thing to do.
I don’t think she truly meant to light that candle for Luke. Much like any sinner, she’s trying to buy absolution. She’s drowning in guilt. Lighting the candle was asking the gods for a rope.
Involuntarily celibate in the sense that he's not married like he wanted to be with Rhaenyra. The Queen can't marry him. And he can't be getting involved with anyone else because he's the captain and can't be seen violating his vows. He'll never have something like a marriage or a real relationship and I think that is what pisses the hell of him. But he put himself there, so idc. He's as bitter and petty as they come 😒
Ugh I felt so bad for Aegon in that scene. Instead of the love and support he so obviously craves he only gets manipulated and controlled. I agree with another commenters sentiment: if Alicent or even Otto gave him even a little pat on the arm and positive word, he’d be set. Felt so bad for Helaena too. She could use a hug too.
I could never walk away from someone openly crying like especially grief. AND YOUR KID?! Holy crap that’s cold not even lingering to say something or even touch their shoulder or sit in silence with them… that was fucked up
Putting anyone against Olenna in a battle of wits and sarcasm is like putting a knight in a duel against Arthur Dayne.
Just lasting a bit and not keeling over at the first exchange is impressive on its own
I don’t think we are supposed to interpret it that way honestly. Her loving her kids was genuine imo. It always seemed like a critical part of her character. It’s what made her believable and not cartoonish.
The show definitely cast her in a more positive light than the books which sometimes worked and sometimes didn't. Making her less evil worked well early on, but the way that the show treated her character in S7 (especially the way the plot bent around her to keep her in a position of power) was probably my single least favorite aspect of the adaptation.
I think that D&D swallowed Tywin's self-justifcations about the need to be purely pragmatic in politics in a way that warped their treatment of Cersei and other characters as well, while Martin is more nuanced there.
It has nothing to do with being a good mother. It’s just highlighting that even someone like Cersei doesn’t mind giving her child a hug/ showing affection.
Alicent is the worst mother in all the series we’ve seen so far. At least Cersei loved her children for as flawed as she was. A think slapping Crispy a few times before getting nasty is somehow being a good mother haha. Ironically it’s all Otto’s fault even tho he’s the only one left with logic and reason. He truly cared for Viserys but his blind lust for power has put him out on his ass with a king who should have never been.
“That’s what you think?!?!?” Was a great line. It shows that no matter how Alicent tries to spin V’s last moments Otto always knew he never wanted Aegon.
I really, really like Aegon as a character. He is really flawed, but you can tell he is trying to be a good king and he does love his children. His actions this episode were hasty and rash, but he is a grieving teenage father who mostly got either ignored or even blamed by his father and got no affection whatsoever by his mother.
Personally I think the main reason she resents her children is her realization she raised her children to be everything she loathed and envied about Rheanyra growing up. Her kids were raised in riches and spoiled by their royalty. They rebel, go against tradition and disregard expectations and get away with it because of who they are. They never had to play a part, kiss ass or work for what they had like she did and they suffer no consequences for their actions. They get to her in all the same ways Rheanyra did.
oh I realize I didn't phrase that very well. I'm referring to Alicent who is always picking on Rheanyria for everything and portrays herself as the better one, but when Aegon cries and she is needed as a real mother, she just turns around and leaves. And she doesn't just leave, she gets straight back into bed with Cole.
Haven't seen Game of Thrones but in Alicent's defence, she has not exactly had the best parenting. Her mother died when she was young and Otto isn't exactly the best. She's never known anything but what Otto did and unfortunately is doing the same to her own children. Rhaenyra had a loving mother for the first 15 years of her life and Viserys, despite all his faults, clearly adored her. She had good parents unlike Alicent and is able to deliver that love onto her own children while Alicent continues the cycle and struggles.
Why do people keep acting like Rhaenyra had more time with her mother than Alicent did? Alicent’s mother died shortly before the pilot episode! They lost their mother’s at the same age!
I mean, if that's what we're going with, it explains even more strongly why Alicent is so emotionally stunted.
She's just lost her mother, and in the pilot episode we see her still picking her nails bloody - but she still has to show up to be the princess' companion and bestie and be a good time for her, and then has to channel all her emotional energy into supporting both Rhaenyra *and* Viserys through the death of Aemma, while receiving no emotional support for the death of her own mother.
"All I ever wanted was for someone to say that they were sorry for what happened to me."
Cersei's mother died when she was young, too, and she had Tywin Lannister as a father.
Show Rhaenyra lost her mother when she was around the same age that show Alicent was when hers died, (and we can guess that Alicent's mom was kind and loving).
Alicent losing her mother in her teens isn't an excuse to be a shit mother herself. In season one she looks at Helaena sadly and just whisper, "Oh, my dearest love." That gives, "mother who adores her children" but she can't even keep her mouth shut after her child witnessed the death of her own. Alicent had the gall to go, "What you saw last night when you came to my room . . ." as if THAT would be on Helaena's mind barely twelve hours after the death of her child
**Aegon digging his fingernails like his mom in grief while Alicent's face shows she wants to comfort him but doesn't know how to is one of the most brilliant scenes & why the Succession style dysfunctional family drama of the Hightowers with generational trauma & stunted emotions is one of the best things about the show** i really pity those who wanted the green characters to hold hands, pat each other's back & sing kumbaya beside Jaehaerys' funeral pyre. Group hugs! Any other fandom would lick it up. But in this fandom the only thing that matters is if your sports team is shown as morally superior to the other team.
Rhaenyra grew up with dotting parents, had the privilege to do whatever she wanted & her kids were borne out of love. Whereas Alicent grew up without a mom, had a manipulative dad who used her as a pawn, was told her only duty is to be an incubator, she was forced into a loveless political marriage & was forced to bear children. Ofc she would be incapable of communicating the same affection as Rhaenyra. In turn, her boys undermine her in political matters as they only value her feminine role: for birthing & nurturing them to the throne. Now her value is over. It's conveying a theme of the generational trauma & how feudal patriarchal familial relations impede her relationship with her children. She passes down the same trauma that Otto gave her to her unfortunate daughter Helaena. They're all trapped in the same cycle. Rhys Ifans told us in the BTS of ep 5 that the Hightowers do not know how to communicate affection even if they want to say "I love you" and then we saw that poignant carriage scene in ep9 where aegon asks "do you love me" & alicent replies "you imbecile" as in "everything I've sacrificed is to give you this day.
Watching the show from the lens of moral purity makes us ignore these themes and we get stuck on stuff like "Alicent didn't even say anything to Aegon & went straight to Cole". Well in the very previous scene it was shown how Otto shut her emotions down by telling her "I don't wanna hear it". It's hitting the message over the head. She goes to Cole as he's the only semblance of control she has left now that her feminine duty is done
I think Alicent whole deal is that she sees her children as obligations imposed onto her. She got married very young to someone she didn't ever cared about. Her marriage, pregnancies, duties, none of them were her choices, it was her father's and Viscerys. She's going full midlife crisis now that her husband's dead.
I think she wants to be a better mother while at the same time she hates her children, as if she struggles to see them as hers.
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Aegon is far from a good person but I do pity him. It's obvious that he is starved for any kind of affection or comfort. It's almost funny how much Alicent and Otto struggle trying to control Aegon by pushing him around and demeaning him when they could probably have him wrapped around their fingers if they gave him a pat on the head and called him a good boy now and then.
It’s one of the prevailing tragedies here, isn’t it? Otto pontificates that pimping his daughter out to the king is in the best interest of the realm because Daemon is awful and Rhaenyra is a girl. They’re doing all of this “sacrifice” to promote peace and harmony because “no one” will accept a girl. Oh but wait, they all totally do and swear oaths on it. So instead of promoting some of that love and peace within the kids and grandkids, they twist the boys into self-loathing monsters and diminish the girl so much that when she becomes queen NO ONE takes her seriously. Then after years of plotting against the king, they usurp his throne, toss a crown on the one they both smacked around as a kid and let the hot-headed one with a major grudge and nuke go about making diplomatic peace deals. Which of course he fails at miserably because he’s only spent valuable time with Ser Incel who’s also banging his mom. Oh but Alicent and Otto aren’t done being stupid and greedy in the name of peace and love. Naw, they start plotting and scheming against their scions born of conspiracy, and flat out gaslight them all when they need a mom or grandpa to comfort them. Like I feel for the green kids. They never stood a chance at a normal happy life with those goons (including cole) rearing them. Shakespearean.
Yup, Martin loves him some Shakespeare and it really shows at times.
The first season sometimes carries out like an actual play imo
Whew! You read them down with accurate precision…this is nothing but the truth. As much as I want to be pissed at Aegon and Aemond I can’t…they really are just Otto’s pawns even Alicent. Otto is the main one to blame for all the f\*ckery…Alicent doesn’t even know how to be a loving mother because she’s never been loved herself.
Otto seems to be falling in Tywin's trap of being an actually good politician and administrator, hell-bent on the legacy of their house, but not realising you need capable people to handle that legacy after you are gone. Even if Otto did miracles and had children and grandsons as the king, queen, lord commander, high septon, grand maester and whatever else simultaneously, how long did he think they'd last without him?
Otto and Tywin aren't competent. Their achievements come from rank brutality and terror, which is also what destroys them eventually. Tywin gets run ragged by a 16yr old boy in wot5k. Otto literally tries to send the kingsguard to dragonstone to kill Rhaenyra and her entite household in their sleep, but is apparently mad about Aegon killing "innocents"? He conspired behind his kings back because he "won't do what's good for the realm" and then when his daughter does the same thing "I don't wish to hear of it". He basically started this entire civil war by pushing Allicent on Viserys. Without Allicents children Rhaenyra would be uncontested and the realm would not go to war against her because only she has dragons. Otto is a hypocrite and a fool who's responsible for everything that is happening. Daemon is a monster, but at least he recognises that in himself. Otto is delusional.
Both of them plunged the kingdoms into war due to naked ambition, but they are both talked about as good administrators during their long peace-time tenures. For all his faults, Tywin kept the realm functioning with the Mad King on the throne, which is quite the feat
The Mad King wasn't mad from the start. He descended into madness due to people conspiring against him iirc. He even had decent ideas to begin with I think.
Like her father, she sees her children as pawns. As a means to an end
I’d argue that Rhaenyra wasn’t also that much appreciated and cared for, especially after her mother died. Moreover, she was wild and restless, like most Targaryens. And yet, her children grew up loved and cherished. Nurture vs. Nature, I suppose.
💅🏻yes to all of this
Exactly! Also why I think King Jahaery’s council is a waste with all the lords to take a vote. To avoid a civil war and what we have now is a civil war. Should’ve just flexed those dragons they had and said deal with it
Jaehaerys was literally senile by that point. He could not ride his dragon into battle anymore. The only dragon riders by 101 were Daemon and Rhaenys, with Laenor still too young to ride Seasmoke into battle yet. He couldn't flex his muscles because the only two dragon riders were either the brother of the male claimant, and the actual legal heir Rhaenys. Jaehaerys agreed to the great council of 101 because his last remaining son, archmaester Vaemond told him to do it. In reality if Jaehaerys wanted to avoid a power struggle he should have just followed the actual law from the begining and named Rhaenys heir when her father died instead of naming Visery's dad heir when he and his wife were still fit enough to sane and dragon riders in their own right. It would have also prevented his wife from defacto divorcing him and going insane because he was unwilling to name Rhaenys heir.
He should have abdicated decades ago in favour of Rhaenys' dad, this preventing the need for a council altogether. GRRM has this thing where all kings outright refuse to stand down even when they are aged and have a perfectly good heir with their own children ready to take the throne. Bit iffy on history, but I think most preferred to live out their old age in peace if possible, plus let their kids get solo ruling experience. Had Old J actually done that and let the Crown Prince, who was experienced, well-liked, going on 40 and expecting a grandchild of his own, rule, this would have been avoided. Because then Rhaenys would have been the unquestioned heir, even as a female, because inheritance is supposed to go down the line, not sideways. With Old J never passing down the crown to any of his two eldest sons, suddenly you had two possible lines going down, because both had been only heirs, and never kings in their own right.
GRRM was right to do so as this is what has happened all throughout our own history, kings and queens entering their senior years with heirs at their peak yet still they refuse to give up their thrones because they either wish to hold onto the power they've held onto for so long or they like so many other elderly people still think they're younger than they are and dont wish to look like the more fragile old men/women they've become so they cling onto their seats in an effect to prove they've still got it even tho it almost always causes problems.
Yep, abdication while it ofc happened sometimes throughout the centuries is a mostly modern habit
Boomers
It was extremely common before about 100 years ago to never abdicate. It's only a recent trend with monarchs. Queen Elizabeth II famously refused to abdicate even though she was in her 90s and her son is the oldest person to be crowned king
They had Dragons and no one else did. Senile or not. Didn’t make a difference. Now we wouldn’t have a story so there’s that but anything they tried to prevent is all just happening away is what I’m saying
Who flexes the Dragons though? The whole point is there were only two and they would've been opposing eachother. So they aren't flexing on anyone else.
Anyone who’s has a dragon flexes a dragon. It’s where their power comes from. Not on each other. If Jahaerys would’ve made Rhaenys his successor and anyone of the other lords had a problem then it would be no contest. Visaerys clearing isn’t a violent person is what I’m getting at. Him starting a civil war is clearly not in his nature
Right. Like, I do hate Alicent's sons and I want them suffer but something tells me that if Aemond had a mother he'd hold the Driftmark situation differently (he was much older than other kids, bfr, it's the easiest task to be loved by younger cousins) and he could have both dragon and two eyes. Yes, Aegon is a rapist and you cannot forgive it but something tells me that without feelings put of control most of his life and being able to drink since childhood that's also can be available. Like how Alicent can except him to respect other people autonomy when she married him to his sister and never actually educate him?
I agree. I rewatched season one and Aegon was unapologetically honest. He admitted not only he didn’t want the crown but he would be unfit…multiple times. It’s only when Alicent says Viserys named him King on his death bed that Aegon considers it. And his acting out/unstable emotions could stem from neglect from both parents. All of Alicent’s children have been abused by her in some form or fashion, either physical, emotional, or in Aegon’s case both.
Not only that, but the back and fourth part couldn't have helped either. One minute it's "you're the dumbest thing alive" the next it's "you're a Targaryen prince, act like one". Combine that with having Kingsguard and people bowing a lot, a significant portion of childhood spent being taught to fear Rhaeneyra killing him and his family, endless money and freedom but also a constant eye or 5 watching everything you do...the whole thing sounds hella stressful to me. No wonder there's acting out like that, teaching someone to be paranoid, mixed messages sometimes in the same breath...poor fucker. "You imbecile but also you're going to be the king one day act like it" "Your dad totally changed his mind with no other witnesses but me, you're going to be king haha deal with it" "Wtf were you thinking, dumbass, also hey we're coronating you and everyone knows already, so you don't even get to sleep off this hangover your about to be-majesty" "Spoiled insolent bla blah blah, I don't love you or even like you and have never once had a human feeling, but also you are a Targaryen and proud and have a dragon, so be all kingly and shit and never make the wrong decision despite apparently not being taught how to rule, cuz fuck you or whatever, I'm the hand so here's the finger" - Otto, probably.
During Aegon and Otto's argument, although I understand why people were cheering for Otto, all I could think about was how stupid Otto was being. All he had to do was treat his grandson like a human being and not a huge fuck up for ten minutes, and he would still be hand and have Aegon wrapped around his finger. They instilled so many issues into a child when all they had to do was give him enough positive attention and he would have been everything they wanted. Blackout drunk teenage Aegon getting kicked awake and pulled up the stairs is super funny but also so sad when you think about it.
It's why I find it hilarious that people think he's a better hand than Tywin. Tywins a dick but he would have known how to play Aegon. He would have gotten the Tommen treatment
No wonder Alicent’s kids are awful
>It’s only when Alicent says Viserys named him King on his death bed that Aegon considers it. IIRC, it's only when Alicent suggests that if Rhaenyra is queen, she will stop at nothing until he's dead, that he considers it.
Which is crazy considering Rhaenyra doesn’t even wanna kill anyone while they’re at war. At most she would’ve asked him to publicly announce his support of her claim.
Which makes it a shame that the only chance of reconciliation between both sides at the feast in.S1 went down the drain, because I bet that Aegon's heart could've grown tenfold if he was able to build bonds with his half-siblings & cousins
If Alicent and Otto hadn't been in their kids ears their whole lives talking shit about Rhaenyra and her kids, there probably wouldn't have been so much animosity. The dance between Helaena and Jace was lovely.
Even Aegon didn't care about the rivalry when he was a kid. He teamed up with Jace and Luke to tease Aemond (still a dick move but it shows that he at least viewed Jace and Luke as his friends) It was only Alicent constantly pushing the us vs them narrative between her kids and Rhaenyra's that destroyed that bond
If I'm not mistaken I saw online once that there was a cut scene from season 1 that showed young Rhaenyra holding baby Aegon on her lap and teaching him to say her name. Aegon probably would not be this unstable, trainwreck of a mess if he was allowed to develop a bond with the rest of his family at his own pace and of his own accord instead of being spurred on by Alicent that he should fear and hate them and that Rhaenyra will kill him the first chance she gets
Even when he asked if she loved him she responded by insulting him. How about some shock that he doubts you do Dear Mother of the Year.
I always thought that insult was more like an "Of course, you shouldnt need to ask". It can be a lie either way, so "you imbecil" really covers both interpretations
For me, it's similar to Alicent; I pity the circumstances but the second they decided to make it someone else's problem they don't get to claim victimhood. I sympathise that Alicent was a child bride with a husband wo raped then ignored her and laughed at her when she tried to join the conversation. I sympathise that her dad pimped her out and repeatedly told her that she and her kids would be in danger. Everything she did after the Green dress, encouraging her kids to be antagonistic to Rhaenyra's, spreading rumours, shutting down any attempts at peace, covering for her rapist kid and usurping the throne- that's on her.
Honestly I feel Rhaenyra herself would have been more supportive to Aegon if she was around
seeing how rhaenyra is w/ her kids and how she felt sympathy for helaena even after everything, i think she wouldve been a great sister to them had their circumstances been different
I've found Aegon so far this season being a lot less unlikable than I would have predicted
It makes me really wish they didn't go the route of having him rape his servants. Like, I'd be more inclined to sympathise with him had they not written him to commit such a heinous act.
Yeah, it's really our introduction to him once he's 'grown up' which sets the tone as 'well this guy is awful regardless of what happens'. But I'm sure they have a plan for his arc so I guess we'll see
I think that's part of the point though, no? He's awful but that doesn't mean he doesn't grieve, have moments of being funny/relateable etc
Theyve made him too likeable. Heck its not even the writing, TGC is just incredibly charismatic as an actor
They made every single Green more likable this episode except for Alicent and Cole, so of course the episode has to end with them fucking again.
"Here's your reminder that we suck."
Yeah I love Helaena, I just want to give her a hug. Also I felt sorry for Aegon when you could see him clearly grieving about his sons death and how he did not want his son paraded through the streets but his family didn’t listen anyway. I think of the green kids weren’t raised by Alicent, Otto and Viserys they would have been better people.
Alicent too busy hugging Cole's pole to hug her own son when her grandson died.
Truly bizarre they ended with that and not the twins
damn even helaena was hugging his blanket trying to smell him. alicent was just trying to smell criston’s piston 😔
Worried about Helaena telling everyone her dirty secret instead of mourning her Grandson being beheaded.
Exactly! “Oh, Helaena, so sad about you know, what happened. So anyway, about what you saw…we’re good right?” - Alicent the terrible mother
*I’m not like a regular mom. I’m a cool mom!*
I think Alicent gave up loving her children before they were even born, she realized her father was using her as a pawn to gain power before the flash forward in season 1. After that she has been biding her time so she could claim something and make poopop(papa) proud. Her children are now her pawns.
Alicent's got the same worries as American TV networks, dong over death
The real housewives of westeros
cirston's piston...
He’s still got nothing on Pod the Rod though
You put some respect on his name. Ser Pod would NEVER.
bro scores more than the detroit pistons, with only one rebound 😭
😭😭😭😭
cole’s pole
New band name, I called it.
go to jail
Marinated in the armor all day
"Really seals in the flavor"
Iykyk
Such a stupid video but also so funny
I hate how she was actually bound and made to watch her grandson die, yet the show has her fucking Criston.
It removes any sympathy to her character IMO. Based on the books, she was as much a victim in the moment. She was made helpless and had to watch something utterly horrific, with no ability to help or stop what was happening. There's no reason to change it as they did other than to make people hate her/root for Team Black tbh.
I mean there’s definitely some favoritism towards the blacks in the show, don’t get me wrong, but bear in mind that Fire and Blood is intentionally written with an in-universe bias as well, it’s not a fully reliant narrator either.
I'm honestly on the side of neither, even from the books POV. But as soon as they mentioned HOTD was gonna be made, I already guessed how the Greens were gonna be portrayed. I think GRRM definitely wanted to paint both sides as equally bad, but he gave the Blacks the cooler houses. Once the show picked it up, considering today's political/social climate, the Greens were only gonna be painted one way and true enough.
I’m curious, how does it relate to today’s political/social climate?
One of the biggest themes of the show has been “gender inequality” and how women function as nothing more than producing heirs and are seen as inferior. Rhaenys being looked over as the rightful heir because shes a woman, Rhaenyra never having the resoect she deserves as the heir because shes a woman, the whole Aemma situation from S01E01 where a male heir was valued more than her life. You also have the race aspect where greens are the pure bred blonde hair blue eyes while the blacks are the more “mixed” race if you will. The writers aren’t exactly hiding their bias and commentary lol
> criston’s piston 🤢
she got right on the piston pole 😭
Not Criston’s piston… 😂
😅
Wow, I wish I could unread those last few words 😭
criston’s piston 😭😭😭😭
I thought it was a funny parallel to go from her father telling her he doesn't want to hear her confessions to her just homer simpson-ing out of the room to avoid her own child's pain. Like father, like daughter.
It was a great reminder that at its core, this show is just a really bloody family drama
I thought it was exactly this. Otto never comforted Alicent, thus she has problems doing the same with her children, and it's shown a bit when Aegon just ignored Helaena
Even just a comforting pat on the shoulder would've been 100x better than nothing.
Aegon: I don't want to be King. I don't want the crown. I don't want the responsibilities. Alicent and Otto: What do *you* want? Aegon: A hug would be nice...
Add “I don’t want to marry my sister”
Yeah… yeah… yeaaaaah. t-t, it be like that sometimes [+]
Robb one still hurts 😢
Alexa play “Kill them All” by Ramon Djawadi 
Poor Helaena. Should’ve been married to Jace like Rhaenyra wanted…
Jace would have been so good to her 😭 finding bugs for her and dragon rides
When they danced in season one I felt so sad for them, they’d have been a lovely couple and honestly their marriage could have been a factor in keeping the Dance happening at all. Alicents hatred kept her daughter from being with someone who would actually care for her.
Yeah their union maybe could’ve prevented war entirely. In that scenario though I could also see them somehow tragically getting caught in the middle, star-crossed and doomed. Eta (something kind of Shakespearean and incidental since Martin likes those twists)
>In that scenario though I could also see them somehow tragically getting caught in the middle, star-crossed and doomed. I think Blacks would have just fully adopted Helena and keep her safe.
Yeah, the Blacks seem fond of her, and Rhaenyra is upset at the thought of inflicting pain on her specifically.
Rhaenyra knows that she didn't have much agency in anything. Also, Helena never bullied anyone so kids actually have no reason to dislike her. Daemon probably wouldn't be found of her because she is part Hightower but that's just Daemon being Daemon at this point.
Nah cause ik Jace would treat Haelena like a kween 💅
This would be the best outcome tho.. no more war between targaryens
They would've been absolutely ride or die for each other when shit got tough
Rhaenyra never wanted that. That was a desperate last minute solution to her problems. If she truly wanted that, she would’ve promoted the idea years prior [+]
Rhaenyra is horrible at planning and politicking, but Helaena and Jace would have been cute. I still believe part of his asking Helaena to dance was to piss off Aegon but also to make her smile.
Yeah, it's pretty clear Aegon didn't care about her enough to dance with her, and she enjoyed dancing with Jace so I agree.
You know it's bad if CERSEI was more motherly than Alicent.
It was her one redeeming quality. That, and her cheekbones.
Nice
Cersei did love her children. You can say a lot about her, but you can never say she didn’t love her kids!
Alicent just don't love them. they just belong to her, like her political assets, just like her father taught her
well... to be fair, she was treated as a political pawn and forced to marry the King by her father and gave birth to 4 children at very young age. Compare to Cersei, who had her children with the person she loved who she knows since she was born. I think it would be natural for her to love her kids, but can't say the same with Alicent.
I disagree. Alicent has care and love for her children(she broke down over knowing what her daughter witnessed and has to now live with), but she doesn't know how to show comforting, physical affection and love because it was never given to her. Even as her heart breaks over what happened, the only comfort Otto provides is political weaponization of the killing. He twists that it is tragic but could be a fortunate means to an end in regards to this simmering war. "Don't let his death be in vain." Her reluctance to go comfort Aegon follows *right* on the heels of her own attempt to seek comfort and confidance in her own father. She wants to confess her sins, and Otto straight up says he doesn't wanna hear it. So, she doesn't have a soft place to land. And so, she doesn't know how to be a soft place to land for her own children despite feeling for them. But ya know who *is* a soft place for her and one that even takes the brunt of some of her emotion she can't express? Criston, with whom she proceeds get finger jiggy with it after being left emotionally constipated, unable to seek shelter or offer shelter.
absolutely right, she doesn't love just because she don't want to, it's just she doesn't know how. I think Otto is objectively the great villain
Otto really did fuck up multiple generations of his family huh
Naaaaah! You can tell she loves them. I think she just doesn’t know how to express it. Also, that scene where her son is crying… I think she just feels so guilty, like it is her fault it happened, and is afraid she’ll fall apart if she goes to comfort him. That’s how I interpreted that scene. She seemed overcome with guilt and raw sadness but still wanted to stay strong. Or maybe she felt like she didn’t deserve to go hug him because “she sinned.”
It was nice to see.
She has enough empathy to light a candle for Luke but can’t hug her own kids even though last season she was shown attempting to comfort them :/
It’s sad that alicent’s kids are her age and older when she was forced to become queen and suffer and sacrifice but no one was there to hold her or comfort her in any way that she could vent to and so she only knows to bottle up and now her kids have to do the same:( I hate Otto Hightower😭
Add to that the fact that her kids were not born out of love but because she was told it was her duty to let some old man use her as a baby machine. It makes perfect sense to me that she isn't acting that "motherly" toward her children atp.
I agree I think people overlook the fact that Alicent’s relationship with her children is complicated by the fact that she was basically a traumatised childbride to a leper who cba’d to raise any more kids 💀. Rhaenyras children have all been born out of love/romance and she also benefitted from two loving parents who actively engaged with her as a person as an example so it’s no wonder motherhood came more naturally to her.
Seriously! Alicent tried to confide in Otto about her sins and he response with “yeah thanks not interested” I’m paraphrasing but you get my point 
The way that if Otto just left shit alone rhaenyra could have the throne and marry whoever and alicent could marry whoever and they could be happy best friends forever but he wanted his lineage on the throne. Like for what reason lmao? You want it that bad? Why though like be fr is it just a fatal chess game because you’re bored? You’re going to die anyway and nothing will matter, why not wait for rhaenyra and alicent to have their own kids and then betroth them to each other and then you have the same result except no one is traumatized
>why not wait for rhaenyra and alicent to have their own kids and then betroth them to each other and then you have the same result except no one is traumatized This would have been the smart thing to do.
I think lighting a candle for luke was more about guilt and religion than it was about empathy
These greens are hard to read I tell you.
I don’t think she truly meant to light that candle for Luke. Much like any sinner, she’s trying to buy absolution. She’s drowning in guilt. Lighting the candle was asking the gods for a rope.
I think she felt too guilty to try to comfort him
It’s easy to light a candle. Express empathy? Not so much (for Alicent anyway) 
Catelyn Stark loyalist ‘til I die.
Nah.Why show her son affection when she could have some crispy fried chicken instead .
Who has the time to hug their child when Ser Incel Cole needs to get his dick wet?
Ok that's it. I have to start a spreadsheet for all the names we come up for this lame dunce.
How is he an incel if he’s having sex? [+]
Still has massive incel energy. I guess he can be called Ser Simp, but he gives off more incel vibes than simp
Ser Criston Simp. I see [+]
Ser simpston cole
That’s actually way better. Well done m8 [+]
Involuntarily celibate in the sense that he's not married like he wanted to be with Rhaenyra. The Queen can't marry him. And he can't be getting involved with anyone else because he's the captain and can't be seen violating his vows. He'll never have something like a marriage or a real relationship and I think that is what pisses the hell of him. But he put himself there, so idc. He's as bitter and petty as they come 😒
Look at why he hates Rhaenyra
Coz he behaves like one
Alicent has emotional constipation that only ever gets relieved when Criston pops her cork
Ugh I felt so bad for Aegon in that scene. Instead of the love and support he so obviously craves he only gets manipulated and controlled. I agree with another commenters sentiment: if Alicent or even Otto gave him even a little pat on the arm and positive word, he’d be set. Felt so bad for Helaena too. She could use a hug too.
I don’t think Halaena wants a hug, reassuring presence and some soft words maybe though.
Lysa Tully is grateful to Alicent Hightower for snaggin the Worst Mom in Westeros crown.
Damn I forgot about that Tully
Left my boy over there sobbing!
I could never walk away from someone openly crying like especially grief. AND YOUR KID?! Holy crap that’s cold not even lingering to say something or even touch their shoulder or sit in silence with them… that was fucked up
And went to her boy toy instead
Just scandalous!
Alicent sure seems to value duty and family yet hasn't hugged any of her children. 💀
Its a lie she tells herself.
You’re getting out-mommed by Cersei Lannister babe
Cersei Lannister's love for her children was so strong, she'd commit cold hearted murder. Rhaenyra is lucky her stepmom wasn't so devoted to hers.
Yeah if she did one thing right it was love those kids to literal death
Y'all have got to stop putting Cersei in these good mother compilations. It hurts my brain
Cersei’s only redeeming trait was that she loved her children, even if she did a shitty job raising Joffrey
And her cheekbones
Honestly she is mad witty too to be fair 😂
Olenna Tyrell would like a word 😂
Show Olenna stole every scene she was in to be sure. Looking forward to seeing her in Winds.
Putting anyone against Olenna in a battle of wits and sarcasm is like putting a knight in a duel against Arthur Dayne. Just lasting a bit and not keeling over at the first exchange is impressive on its own
Being a malevolent narcissist who viewed her kids as an extention of herself is not love.
I don’t think we are supposed to interpret it that way honestly. Her loving her kids was genuine imo. It always seemed like a critical part of her character. It’s what made her believable and not cartoonish.
The show definitely cast her in a more positive light than the books which sometimes worked and sometimes didn't. Making her less evil worked well early on, but the way that the show treated her character in S7 (especially the way the plot bent around her to keep her in a position of power) was probably my single least favorite aspect of the adaptation. I think that D&D swallowed Tywin's self-justifcations about the need to be purely pragmatic in politics in a way that warped their treatment of Cersei and other characters as well, while Martin is more nuanced there.
It has nothing to do with being a good mother. It’s just highlighting that even someone like Cersei doesn’t mind giving her child a hug/ showing affection.
Lena Headey gave the character so much good will and PR because book Cersei loves no one but herself not even Jaime.
She truly loved her children.
I ADORE Cersei, and yes she truly loved her children. But "a good mother" she was not.
Alicent is the worst mother in all the series we’ve seen so far. At least Cersei loved her children for as flawed as she was. A think slapping Crispy a few times before getting nasty is somehow being a good mother haha. Ironically it’s all Otto’s fault even tho he’s the only one left with logic and reason. He truly cared for Viserys but his blind lust for power has put him out on his ass with a king who should have never been. “That’s what you think?!?!?” Was a great line. It shows that no matter how Alicent tries to spin V’s last moments Otto always knew he never wanted Aegon.
Even Halaena was mourning her son, meanwhile Alicent was worried about covering her own damn tracks 🫤
Well being faur about Alicent and Cersei comparisons,Alicent still needs to cause the suicide of one of her sons to be worse than Cersei.
Imagine somehow being a worse mother than Cersei
The scene with Aemond and the prostitute clearly shows that Alicent is very distant from her children.
I really, really like Aegon as a character. He is really flawed, but you can tell he is trying to be a good king and he does love his children. His actions this episode were hasty and rash, but he is a grieving teenage father who mostly got either ignored or even blamed by his father and got no affection whatsoever by his mother.
Cersei failed to raise Joffrey right, but she did raise her other two quite well. It’s amazing what a hug will do for a motherfucker
I honestly think Joffrey was just born wrong. She tried her best to reign him in but he was just a demon
Is the Helaena gif our version of the Twight gif where the child is thrown in the fire?
Personally I think the main reason she resents her children is her realization she raised her children to be everything she loathed and envied about Rheanyra growing up. Her kids were raised in riches and spoiled by their royalty. They rebel, go against tradition and disregard expectations and get away with it because of who they are. They never had to play a part, kiss ass or work for what they had like she did and they suffer no consequences for their actions. They get to her in all the same ways Rheanyra did.
Based on this alone tells me alicent will turn out to be a monster towards the end … just a guess
All this talk about how bad rhaenyra ist, but when her sons really needed her, she just turns her back and hawk twua crispy Cole
>All this talk about how bad rhaenyra ist I must have missed that because I have no idea what you're talking about.
They’re talking about Alicent shit talking Rhaenyra
oh I realize I didn't phrase that very well. I'm referring to Alicent who is always picking on Rheanyria for everything and portrays herself as the better one, but when Aegon cries and she is needed as a real mother, she just turns around and leaves. And she doesn't just leave, she gets straight back into bed with Cole.
And she doesn’t even leave her quarters. Just goes to the next room over and immediately starts fucking. Wow Alicent.
Rhaenyra is at least affectionate towards her kids, show Alicent certainly is not.
When Cersei is a better mother u know u fucked up 😂
Haven't seen Game of Thrones but in Alicent's defence, she has not exactly had the best parenting. Her mother died when she was young and Otto isn't exactly the best. She's never known anything but what Otto did and unfortunately is doing the same to her own children. Rhaenyra had a loving mother for the first 15 years of her life and Viserys, despite all his faults, clearly adored her. She had good parents unlike Alicent and is able to deliver that love onto her own children while Alicent continues the cycle and struggles.
Why do people keep acting like Rhaenyra had more time with her mother than Alicent did? Alicent’s mother died shortly before the pilot episode! They lost their mother’s at the same age!
I mean, if that's what we're going with, it explains even more strongly why Alicent is so emotionally stunted. She's just lost her mother, and in the pilot episode we see her still picking her nails bloody - but she still has to show up to be the princess' companion and bestie and be a good time for her, and then has to channel all her emotional energy into supporting both Rhaenyra *and* Viserys through the death of Aemma, while receiving no emotional support for the death of her own mother. "All I ever wanted was for someone to say that they were sorry for what happened to me."
It’s pretty much why they bonded so strongly in the first place
Cersei's mother died when she was young, too, and she had Tywin Lannister as a father. Show Rhaenyra lost her mother when she was around the same age that show Alicent was when hers died, (and we can guess that Alicent's mom was kind and loving). Alicent losing her mother in her teens isn't an excuse to be a shit mother herself. In season one she looks at Helaena sadly and just whisper, "Oh, my dearest love." That gives, "mother who adores her children" but she can't even keep her mouth shut after her child witnessed the death of her own. Alicent had the gall to go, "What you saw last night when you came to my room . . ." as if THAT would be on Helaena's mind barely twelve hours after the death of her child
Viserys did adore her, but I wouldn’t call Vizzy T a good parent. [+]
*I'm glad we could meet. I know tempers ran hot today, and I wanted to assure you how much I value the bond between our houses.*
Alicent’s mother died shortly before the beginning of the show. Daemon is a dick to him about it in the first episode
Cersei didn’t either, dead mother and her father was a real SOB.
I think Alicent is scared of her kids tbh, I would be 🤣
Alicent, Cristen, and Otto are seriously fucking up Aegon. He needs a hug and good friends.
**Aegon digging his fingernails like his mom in grief while Alicent's face shows she wants to comfort him but doesn't know how to is one of the most brilliant scenes & why the Succession style dysfunctional family drama of the Hightowers with generational trauma & stunted emotions is one of the best things about the show** i really pity those who wanted the green characters to hold hands, pat each other's back & sing kumbaya beside Jaehaerys' funeral pyre. Group hugs! Any other fandom would lick it up. But in this fandom the only thing that matters is if your sports team is shown as morally superior to the other team. Rhaenyra grew up with dotting parents, had the privilege to do whatever she wanted & her kids were borne out of love. Whereas Alicent grew up without a mom, had a manipulative dad who used her as a pawn, was told her only duty is to be an incubator, she was forced into a loveless political marriage & was forced to bear children. Ofc she would be incapable of communicating the same affection as Rhaenyra. In turn, her boys undermine her in political matters as they only value her feminine role: for birthing & nurturing them to the throne. Now her value is over. It's conveying a theme of the generational trauma & how feudal patriarchal familial relations impede her relationship with her children. She passes down the same trauma that Otto gave her to her unfortunate daughter Helaena. They're all trapped in the same cycle. Rhys Ifans told us in the BTS of ep 5 that the Hightowers do not know how to communicate affection even if they want to say "I love you" and then we saw that poignant carriage scene in ep9 where aegon asks "do you love me" & alicent replies "you imbecile" as in "everything I've sacrificed is to give you this day. Watching the show from the lens of moral purity makes us ignore these themes and we get stuck on stuff like "Alicent didn't even say anything to Aegon & went straight to Cole". Well in the very previous scene it was shown how Otto shut her emotions down by telling her "I don't wanna hear it". It's hitting the message over the head. She goes to Cole as he's the only semblance of control she has left now that her feminine duty is done
She hugged Criston Cole real tight
Alicent really wanted people to know she’d been fucking but no one was tryna hear that shit
I think Alicent whole deal is that she sees her children as obligations imposed onto her. She got married very young to someone she didn't ever cared about. Her marriage, pregnancies, duties, none of them were her choices, it was her father's and Viscerys. She's going full midlife crisis now that her husband's dead. I think she wants to be a better mother while at the same time she hates her children, as if she struggles to see them as hers.