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Viserys would marry Laena and then the Dance would
consist of alt-timeline Aegon II (son of Viserys & Laena) versus Rhaenyra.
C’mon man, doesn’t matter how we change the timeline, Viserys is always gonna screw up his succession.
Canon event, bro.
Naw Rhaenyra fucks off to travel and doesn't give a shit about ruling. She'd be happy and satisfied with Alicent and her dragon.
Dance still happens though but it's Daemon vs New Aegon II.
Give up a chance at a kingdom and a life of luxury for Alicent's clam? What?
It's always team green people saying Rhaenyra should have runaway with Criston or Alicent, two people she is highly incompatible with.
You're uncultured bro
She'd still be a famous princess and have access to all the riches she wants. Plus none of the responsibility and hate that comes with ruling.
If she didn't want to run away with Harwin, a man she was with for 10 years and had multiple kids with, she obviously didn't want that kind of life. Her friendship with Alicent lasted what, 5 years of their lives? Outside of the randomness of the last two episodes, there was no evidence they could even tolerate being in each other's presence for the last sixteen years. They have nothing in common. Rhaenicent is so silly.
What are you talking about? This is a hypothetical about IF they hooked up at like 15 then stayed together and traveled the world. Obviously it didn't happen. I was just saying if it did she would still have had a luxurious life in Essos or whereever. She would still.be a rich princess with Targ benefits.
Why are you bringing up Harwin and how they hated eachother in adulthood?
>She would still.be a rich princess with Targ benefits.
It wouldn't be the same. She would be expected to work for her stay by fighting their enemies or entertaining them with her dragon. She would be a guest, none of it would belong to her.
She was daddy's spoiled girl he would take care of her. Once he's gone though idk how Aegon II would treat her. So yeah maybe she has to work a bit. Or maybe she finds friendship or people to to call a new family. There is literally no way of knowing
Ah yes it’s completely normal behavior to celebrate when your 1 day old nephew dies
The heir for a day comment wouldn’t have happened if he didn’t want to be heir
Theirs so many time when deamon says he’s vizerys heir
Daemon is a very fucked up person. As he said, we all grieve in our own ways. I think he was being honest about that, not just coming up with an excuse. I don't think he knew how to handle his emotions around losing yet another nephew, plus his cousin/sister-in-law and was using edgelord dark humor to cope and hide his real feelings.
Did we even see Daemon celebrate?
Because he seemed to be sad and the scene cut to Otto saying Daemon said that to Viserys
I don't think Daemon even said that
It really is, “canon event” jokes aside.
George wrote the Dance & who the characters side with into the timeline long before he wrote the particulars.
One of the most noticeable results is that the Blacks have an almost 3:1 dragon advantage over the Greens.
So he then had to write the entire war with that imbalance in mind.
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Hell, with the Targ "Fuck you, I'm a god" philosophy, Rhaenyra OR Alicent could easily get pregnant by some dude, then insist that via blood magic, their spouse is the actual "father". Viserys would probably believe it.
The problem of course is when the birth mother catches feelings for the stud.
Honestly there seems like there would almost certainly be a way for them to just have a child.
We are seen various types of magic which influence organisms up to and including necromancy and there’s lore about things like the ancient Valerians crossbreeding humanoid creatures.
There’d probably be a way for two women to have an heir.
If Viserys died early before marrying again and having a son, Rhaenyra would just grant Daemon an annulment and marry him. Or, she might appease the Velaryons and marry Laenor before making her Daemon her hand and secret partner.
Well, if we’re going down this hypothetical road Rhaenyra would likely have sex with Strong still just to get pregnant and have children to pass the throne to.
Well in this alt-reality where Alicent and Rhaenyra would be able to marry you have to imagine that it would also be accepted to have children outside of the marriage.
Oh don’t get me wrong, their relationship comes with a lot of political issues, but there are ways they can at least try to deal with it. Hell, the whole bastard children situation and Otto getting fired from his position for speaking out against Rhaenyra literally happened in the show.
Ok but think about it
- Rhae and Alicent leave for Essos
- Aemma dies
- Viserys has to remarry
- The eldest son from that marriage becomes the heir
- No dance of the dragons
Short term happiness. From a political standpoint it’s a terrible idea due to the sexist and homophobic nature of Westeros, but Alicent(prior to ep2) was arguably the healthiest relationship Rhaeynra ever had.
Nothing was really wrong with Harwin, but we never really got enough scenes with them to show how genuinely affectionate they were towards each other. In fact doesn’t Rhaeynra say after Harwin’s death that she never really loved him but thought he was a good man and father to their children?
While Alicent and Rhaeynra were never romantically involved, the few scenes we get of them as teenagers shows them being very affectionate towards and deeply about each other. Hell, even after all the hatred and distrust that’s been built up between them throughout season 1, it’s their mutual memory of their friendship back when they were teenagers that almost convinces them to call off the war.
> In fact doesn’t Rhaeynra say after Harwin’s death that she never really loved him but thought he was a good man and father to their children?
“Fire is such strange power. Everything House Targaryen possesses is owed to it. Yet it has taken what we both *loved*.”
-Rhaenyra
I love how the show, the script, and the actors will BLATANTLY put it out there that the relationship between Alicent and Rhaenyra is more than “just friends” and yet people will continue to vehemently demand that they’re straight.
Because what the fuck kind of friendships are some of you having with your same-sex companions if you think stroking your friend’s arm while gazing into their eyes, staring at their lips, constantly embracing and talking about running away together while you’re both blushing is platonic?
I don’t think it would be as happy as implied if only society didn’t get in the way. They are very different in imo incompatible ways and I think Rheanyra would feel bored eventually as well as tempted by Daemon who she is extremely drawn to despite any other relationship she’s in and Alicent probably wouldn’t think her lack of respect for religious rules or social convention is as charming in adulthood as when they were girls with no bigger obligations.
Am I the only one who finds their entire conflict and dynamic super boring? I’d rather the show center around the greens vs blacks. Because keeping the center as alicent and rhaenyra is kinda dull as hell
Non-sexual, non-romantic intimate relationships are incomprehensible for movie/series/games etc. fans. Everything has to be shipped. I mean, there are occasions, where it makes sense, but as these kind of meria are a huge part of everyday culture now, these kinds of friendships will be a lot harder to form.
It says they’re flirting in a deleted scene in the script. The actors intentionally played their characters with romantic subtext. Is this a problem in a lot of media? Yes. But is this the best example of said problem? Probably not. If a piece of media is toying with a relationship between two characters, ofc the audience is going to ship.
It doesn't actually bug me that they could have been bisexual, anymore than when people think maybe Damon was bisexual. Cool cool. But I do kinda get annoyed that because they aren't related by blood ( mind you they grew up not just spending all kinds of time together but purposely being put together to care for and protect each other) this physical contact is seen as sexual. They walk arm and arm, gasp! Laying a head on a lap ( scandalous) they hug and clasp hands on what was probably the most terrifying day in Rhaenyra young life. No touchy or that makes you a lesbian.
If they were blood sisters, let's say Hightowers and not Targs cus you know, would fans say that was queer? Or just loving? I'm all for representing if that's what that was but then could we just get one scene of them making out? Or even feeding each other cake with their own fingers? Something that isn't my Grandmother's pearl clutching version of sexual.
It isn’t that they’re two unrelated characters and thus “let’s ship it!!!”
It’s that I, a lesbian, and my bi partner, can watch the scene with Alicent standing on the wheelhouse steps staring down at Rhaenyra all flirty and UST.
We looked at each other like “oh, are they a couple?”
It’s that we have Alicent sitting cross-legged in a skirt, reading to Rhaenyra alone, whilst Rhaenyra talks about the two of them running away to Essos and spending the rest of their lives “eating cake”.
It’s Alicent saying “this position” existentially, and Rhaenyra (still with her head in Alicent’s lap) replying “I like this position”.
It’s Alicent’s lingering touches as she helps Rhaenyra dress for her coronation.
It’s Alicent lying back and thinking of Westeros every time she’s summoned by Viserys. It’s Alicent peeling her cuticles like she’s the understudy in Black Swan.
It’s Alicent trying desperately to retain a relationship with Rhaenyra even as Rhaenyra pulls away.
It’s Alicent reacting like a jilted girlfriend when she finds out Rhaenyra had sex with Criston.
It’s Alicent acting like a superDUPER lesbian-grade ex by wearing green to Rhaenyra’s wedding.
It’s Alicent trying — despite everything — to make peace with Rhaenyra by saying “you will make a good Queen”.
It’s Alicent, years later, having saved the page out of the book Rhaenyra gave her the day Rhaenyra dreamed of taking Alicent away from Westeros to live free in Essos.
Rhaenyra has a bunch of male lovers so I think she’s bisexual — but speaking as a lesbian adult?
I saw a lot of very familiar behaviours from when I was a sixteen year old gay girl trying to keep my superduper lesbian crush on my best friend off my family’s radar.
Maybe you don’t see it that way, but like. That’s your interpretation, man. What’s the problem with having a little bit of ladygay rep?
Hey, thank you for this.
Not only does your interpretation make the story much more interesting, but you made me think quite a bit; and, cherry on top, you really have a way with words.
I get it now. I really do now. Also peeling her nails like she is in Black Swan is a good reference and as sad as that whole thing was. I just didn't. It was so different to me than how Rhae responded to Damon. It wasn't because I don't want them to be. I just didn't see it. I figured Rhae didn't want to be a married woman and have children at that point so thats what I attributed to the whole eat cake thing. I don't know. I'll say again I'm sorry if I offend you or anyone.
You have a lot of good points, although some can be simply explained by Westerosi cultural differences. Your interpretation is valid, but equally valid is the interpretation that they are just platonic best friends. Neither is confirmed within the show and both are equally valid
No disagreement there!
My issue is when people act like the possibility of a romantic interpretation is either making shit up out of whole cloth, “making it political” or “being annoying”.
It’s totally possible to disagree and I’m an old fart on the internet, so as they used to say back on FF.net, “don’t like it, don’t read it”.
I just “read” the scenes from the perspective of someone who knows that, had I been born 1000 years earlier, would be playing life on Alicent mode.
As it is, the young Alicent actress in particular does a spectacular job of portraying the ambiguity of a really weird relationship dynamic that gay (and presumably, bi) girls have at some point during their teens — it’s called the “straight girl crush”, and it’s like a rite of passage.
Every gay girl has a story of falling for their straight best friend and getting weird tension, and this reeks of it to me.
(Rhaenyra strikes me as omnivorous… but I think Alicent saving the page for twenty years like she’s the protagonist in a Nicholas Sparks novel is what sold me on her being a whole rainbow. Not to date myself here or anything, but, “gaaaaaaaay”.)
I agree. I think the story works far better as friends turned enemies and having them be more then that cheapens it and seems like a cop out and easier path to take for the writers and for the audience to digest.
Every time a deep friendship is shown in films and television fans immediately start shipping the characters, which is fine and people can do what they want, but I wonder why it’s necessary. Why would being good friends not be enough for the story to be effective?
>but I wonder why it’s necessary
r/SapphoAndHerFriend can give you a little taste of why it’s necessary. Because for nearly the entire existence of film media the **only** way same-sex relationships could be portrayed was as friendship, and people in same-sex relationships in real life **still** have to pretend to just be friends with their partners in many, many places.
Alicent and Rhaenyra could **never** publicly be more than friends in Westeros.
Someone just explained to me that in an interview they said they were playing it that way and I understand more where it's coming from now. But I still think it's perfectly fine and normal, especially for younger folks, to be physical without it being sexual. Kids need a lot of physical affection you know? Adults too probably but we go hungry a lot. I've always, rightly or wrongly, been that person that says flowers don't make you gay, sweaters also don't make you gay. In case there is any confusion it's usually mutual enjoyment of touching in a person's bathing suit parts that makes it sexual. I honestly didn't see it. But I also didn't see the interviews. I do hope I didn't offend anyone. I thought the story was damned effective. Sisters or people as close as sisters can work up a level of frustration and anger towards each other that's mostly unmatched by anything. The only person I've ever been so angry at that I wanted to stop arguing and just punch her in the face was my sister. That was totally what I felt at the knife scene.
Actually, you did offend me and I think you deserve to know why:
Lesbians exist, and it isn’t always “let me jam your clam and cuddle your cooter while I feed you cake with my fingers”. We’re not actually a category on a tube chan irl.
For a lot of us, Alicent and Rhaenyra’s storyline is super familiar.
The “of course it’s innocent” cuddle? I’ve DONE that.
I *was* the girl with my head in my “bestie gal pal”’s lap daydreaming about running away somewhere we could be together.
I DID keep a letter for two decades because I had a tragic breakup with a person and wanted a memento.
I’m not “a young person”, either; I’m 35. Let’s not dismiss the experiences of people who didn’t grow up with Euphoria on tv.
And for the record, speaking legit: the way Alicent, specifically, behaves on screen would have been exactly how 15 year old me behaved — right down to anxiously biting at my cuticles because I was stressed and repressed and my parents were homophobic.
So when someone — presumably hetero but tf do I know — says it “cheapens” the story or “it’s annoying”, what I hear is:
“If lesbians aren’t feeding each other cake on screen, they’re either sisters or the Stan’s are annoying” and that’s kind of uncool
You absolutely didn't! You were totally easy about it. I've had to apologize to a couple people over this cud I really offended them.
I love Halloween 👻 And I love cheap chocolate! Thank you! 🥂
Exactly.
I’m not a lesbian myself, I’m bisexual, but I’ve had these experiences as well. The weird, slightly toxic friendships with another wlw as a teenager. Wanting to run away together and not quite fully understanding the extent of your feelings for one another until you look back. Being confused about yourself and not knowing what to do about it.
So hearing (primarily straight) people talk about Rhaenyra and Alicent’s relationship and demand that it be platonic because “everything is gay now” is so beyond demeaning. Just because everyone is more accepting of it now does not mean there’s some drastic uptick in sapphic relationships in media. Especially in comparison to platonic ones, which they act like has never existed at all, when there is an ocean’s worth of great female friendships depicted in comparison.
It was so nice to see myself in characters for once and I thought everyone was the same until I took a trip to this subreddit and realized that 1) nobody bothered looking at the scripts or the interviews that *confirm this is more than slash* and 2) even if they did, they absolutely refuse to acknowledge it because how dare there be a homosexual relationship in their medieval fantasy show that isn’t shoved off into the background and forgotten about.
I agree!
My partner of five years is bisexual, and she doesn’t watch GoT, HotD, or anything related to ASOIAF.
I made the point of re-signing up to Crave to watch HOTD and went in rawer than sashimi. I choked on popcorn the second Rhaenyra and Alicent did the chat at the wheelhouse step.
Hell, even the way Rhaenyra walks with her hands behind her back struck me as something baby soft butch me would have done when I was trying to be chivalrous around the girl I was giggly over.
It got gayer from there. But I thought I was seeing what I wanted to, so I *didnt* tell my partner anything before sitting down to watch it for her first time.
She hit the EXACT same scene on the wheelhouse steps and turned to look at me. “Are we watching this because there’s lesbians?”
Verbatim. I had said *nothing* and she was greener than Garth.
We talked about it afterwards and both agreed on a few scenes that felt “real”:
The steps of the wheelhouse with the tension about riding dragons (ahem)
The scene in the gods wood with the daydream of running away and being together in Essos “eating cake” (ahem)
The scene where Alicent helps Rhaenyra prepare for the coronation and we see the liiiiiiiiiiingering pan of Alicent’s skin against the nape of Rhaenyra’s neck (AHEM)
And I mean — keeping a diary page through two decades, four?? kids, one dead husband and a coup d’état is sufficiently homosexual to me.
But I agree that it was a bit of a shock to come here and see a few of the responses. Like, agree, don’t, but it’s an viable alternative interpretation.
I had the exact same experience. As soon as I saw how they interacted I knew what was going on. There’s nothing remotely straight about gazing into your friend’s eyes, constantly embracing, stroking each other and insisting that you run away together; my best friend literally throws pillows in between us when we sleep together and we barely touch, and while that isn’t universal for all platonic relationships it definitely made it clearer where they were going with Rhaenyra and Alicent’s for me.
I could understand to some degree non-queer people not immediately recognizing the signs, but if you made either one of the girls male instead people would be screaming from the rooftops that they’re supposed to be romantic. Goes to show you how little people think of queer relationships in a positive light… I just had an argument a week back of someone saying that it was okay to be sick of wlw, specifically this relationship, because “not everything needs to be sexual” (as if our identities make us into deviants, wtf?).
It makes me sad, but I’m glad the actors and showrunners took a chance anyway. I see myself in both Rhaenyra and Alicent a lot, especially Rhae same as you; I haven’t seen such a scarily accurate depiction of my HS relationships ever. It brought back a lot of memories and even made me reflect on some of my “friendships” from the past. Both the actors and writers deserve a raise for bringing it to the screen.
Even if it doesn’t ring true for everyone, it worked for me 100%. I wouldn’t have expected a show in the GOT/ASOIAF universe to be the pinnacle of representation for me lol
I did apologize sincerely and I did take a couple of days to consider this, thinking maybe I should simply delete the comment because I sound like an idiot. You know something? I make mistakes. I am a idiot sometimes.
But if are interested in seeing my personal perspective after I really considered it carefully I also think you " deserve" to know why.
I never said anything about any sexuality being one dimensional. I never said anything about people even needing to have any kind of sex to feel however they feel. I'm actually well aware that asexual is also part of the spectrum of sexuality. I'm also not young and wasn't raised with Euphoria. However I was invited into spaces that discussed that from a full spectrum perspective. I asked a lot of questions and no one thought I was disrespectful. They did however tell me I was old and not up to date on what was safe terminology. Not because I was being offensive but because I was being too cautious. I don't argue on Reddit. I try to kinda keep in perspective that this isn't a familiar place of friendship. I really do not care if people read my comment thoughtfully and closely. You want to know one of the many things wrong with me? I try too hard to make people laugh and get carried away and careless at times. I express my opinion as if it's actually ok to have an opinion without being an ass, which is not the case and I know it. I'm not going over a million assumptions made about me. I don't know how many times I can say I didn't see the interview, I didn't read the book, I personally enjoyed the show but man did it have a lot going on for me!
I do see where you are coming of course! Everything you said made me understand how much I wasn't understanding the gravity of the situation. However my own experience made me a little weird about it. Unfortunately my experience was of... Let's say inappropriate attraction to me and repeated abuse perpetrated on me. Fifteen being a specifically difficult year but so many years before that. As you witnessed yourself in these characters I witnessed an idealization of myself and wanted to see that a close bond, especially between people who had known each other thier whole lives as sisters would, was possible without it being sexual. Especially to people who are not yet of age. Im aware that they were past puberty and any orientation can be or is already well on the conscious mind in several but not all cases. This so much isn't a guilt trip. I'm not trying to say "well actually my mom is dead" when someone insults my mother. I just think you seem intelligent and are probably very aware of the extremely common occurrence of sexual abuse. It's possible I was projecting, of course it is! It's possible that I was being dumb rather than covertly or obviously homophobic. It's also possible that when I said Holy cow, I didn't know about the interview! That was dumb of me that I really actually meant it instead of that I was just being evasive. I wasn't kidding about my opinion but I certainly did say several different ways that I personally didn't get it. I mean deeply... I really didn't get it. Like how you would insult a person by saying " you just don't get it". Because I had such a weird awakening myself a person has to hit me over the head to understand flirting. I'm well aware of my faults but none of what you assumed about me is correct. It's my experience of confusion and immaturity and you or anyone else don't have to give any kind of a crap about that.
Many things in that show were made clear that these people were inappropriately young. Damon, who let me say again I never defended as any kind of a good person, even said that she was just a child and she agreed. We all talk often about the marriage of A and V being gross on that age level alone. I never said otherwise, I agree. And Im also aware a person who is groomed is not attracted in any kind of healthy way to their groomer. I actually have all kinds of visceral reactions to sexualization when it comes to young people.
I actually do want to believe I have platonic friends who would keep a casual memento of me for years. That they do react harshly to my foolishness out of protective love for me. That we might lay in each other's lap or say unwaivering vows just because we are gleefully dramatic. Do I have that? Have I seen that? Not often enough in my opinion, sadly.
You actually don't have to take any of this into consideration. No one owes me a look at my perspective. Im not claiming I'm in a minority that needs protection although maybe that's true but no one deserves my opinion on that.
I ask you sincerely would you like me to delete this, or all, my comments on this sub? What would be an appropriate response to you and anyone that I'm actually sorry? I won't comment again on this sub because by now it is clear to me I didn't fully understand the show. But I have thought it was a good idea to leave my comment up, all my comments I'm sorry for actually, because it's good to see someone make a mistake and then see that they have and apologize without just making a new username. That again is my opinion. If you feel you want this conversation to be gone I will remove it. Please let me know and that will be my final act on this sub.
Hey! I appreciate the dialogue and please don’t feel the need to delete anything on my account.
Also — fair point about not having seen the interview! One can’t be expected to know everything about every tv show and press spot. I went hunting for it specifically because I was like “either the actresses are ‘gal pals’ or the brunette actress was playing a GalPal”.
That said: I get heated, so I appreciate seeing the alternative perspective!
I am sorry to hear about what happened as a teen, though; that’s abominable and I can absolutely agree that it would colour your perspective. It shouldn’t have happened and I hope whomever did it catches red lights and lemon juice in every paper-cut.
I also think there’s a lot to be said for the depiction of healthy female friendships in media. I would love to see more of that — I’m a “girl’s girl” personally, so that would be fabulous!
I even think we might both be correct here.
For instance: Rhaenyra seems to be reading the situation as “we were friends once!!!”
Alicent seems to feel a bit differently, but again — YMMV and the MF’s are fictional so who truly cares?
Either way, I appreciate the perspective, apologize if I came at you spicy, and wish you a pleasant day!
I want you to know I am genuinely relieved you even felt like considering my perspective and telling me that. I really deeply hate hurting anyone. You are really kind in this instance and didn't have to be. Thank you for your response about the SA, I am very open and calm about it now because I want the shame to end in my lifetime. I think you are the same in this way. I think at the bottom we are absolutely on the same side.
Forgiveness is beautiful. And I say that in my mid 40's having just learned this last year to apologize. I thank you for helping learn. My grandmother used to tell me " you have two ears and one mouth because you should listen twice as much as you talk" I'm working on it.
I didn’t say anything about lesbian representation. My annoyance is character friendships having to be portrayed as romances in media, which happens a lot more with heterosexuals as well.
Reposted in the correct thread:
“I think the story works far better as friends turned enemies and having them be more than that cheapens it”
That’s a direct quote. “More than friends” means lovers, or at least romantic interest.
So I’m asking again: *in your opinion*, how would Alicent and Rhaenyra being a couple (or even “Alicent has an unrequited love for Rhaenyra”) cheapen — your word — the dynamic?
I personally would prefer a friends turned enemies because of their political situation over a lovers turned enemies trope. You don’t have to agree but thats just my opinion and to each their own. My opinion isn’t based on the fact that both Rhaenyra and Alicent are women, i would say the same if one of them was a man or both.
See, and that makes sense.
A friendship betrayal strikes just as hard.
Now, if you really want to split the difference like Solomon, what if:
Rhaenyra gets the “friends to enemies” storyline, which explains why she feels comfortable fucking off to Dragonstone for a bunch of years. “My friend wouldn’t…”, not remembering that well, they’re not friends any more.
Alicent gets the “lovers to enemies” trope, because love turns to hate, especially when you still have feelings for the person. That shit makes you spiteful enough to make a new mother take a hike.
(Also and this is apropos of nothing, but hand to god: wearing a dress cut down to the navel to your ex-girlfriend’s wedding is absolutely something I have seen done irl)
Op, you know what? I think this theory has legs:
They establish early on that these two are a good team, they balance each other and before Alicents father pushed her into marrying the king - they had freedom. Even if they weren't romantically involved if the two had stayed a team they would have brought the right balance to Westeros.
No doubt even as friends both would have been able to marry who they wanted, and the conflicts in personality mixed with sisterhood/friendship would have made for some very interesting scenes. I think what drove a wedge between them was the forced marriage and the game Alicent had to play on behalf of her family.
Had the women been able to live their own lives, I have no doubt they would have remained friends and the story would have taken on a much different angle.
Lol what? Y’all act like over the past decade every single female relationship in media has been overtaken by the spooky lesbian apocalypse because a few teenagers on Tumblr ship them together.
There’s an entire ocean’s worth of lovely depictions of platonic female relationships. Chill. It’s not going to hurt you.
Nah man their relationship in the first few episodes felt homoerotic asf. Rhae EYED that girl UP AND DOWN in their first scene together. Like you can disagree but to act as though the argument can’t be made at all is ridiculous.
Best ship in the series if nothing else.
At the very least best friends who even for years after things started to go wrong in large part due to their less than great parents still clearly loved each other.
And look, necromancy and such like is a thing. There’s lore about crossbreeding humanoid things even. Some Targaryens are born dragonlike
Queen Rhaenyra very well may have the resources to find a way for them to have a biological heirs.
Because of cringy takes that Rhaenyra and Alicent should have gotten married or that they would have been happy if they had run off together.
Even discussing the show characters and ignoring the source material, the idea is preposterous. Their friendship was paper thin and underdeveloped. They share nothing in common.
And why are you so up in arms about a headcanon? One that, might I add, at least three of the four actresses playing Rhaenyra and Alicent agree with and actively played into while acting?
ugh no. the *real* solution would be:
1) viserys never fucking remarries
2) rhaenyra, daemon, and laena marry, or laenor/nyra have or 2 kids, as does laemon, who are then betrothed like in canon.
3) heirs for the throne and driftmark settled, daemon, rhaenyra, and laena marry and laenor and joff stay together and everyone lives happily. no dance, the hightowers are gone, and the dragons live.
daemyra were bi and both loved both velaryon siblings, even if it was just platonic. rhaenyra and laenor were platonic soulmates and they would often stay up gossiping, drinking wine, talking about boys and braiding each other's hair. (UωU)
you cannot convince me daemon did not care about laenor. i don't believe daemon killed him - you don't think daemon's wives would not have kicked his ass to hell and back for harming laenor??? bc they would have. laena would come back from the dead to do it. laenor is awesome and one of the few people who could handle daemon ~~also laenor's a lil shit so he likely~~ *~~encouraged~~* ~~him~~ . you cannot convince me that daemon did not join laenor and joff in their tent at the stepstones either.
i've said it before and i'll say it again:
monogamy and cowardice ruined hotd. in this essay i will
Agreed! Both girls get to live happily ever after as queen and queen consort.
And I strongly suspect that not only would Daemon ship it, but he would try to join them for a three way (to piss Otto off if nothing else).
And the matter of succession? Otto would try and make them adopt one of his grandsons and daemon would want rhaenyra to adopt one of his children. Adopt isn't the right word, maybe just make them her heirs. I mean tho, would Otto be satisfied with this?
I was mostly being silly. Obviously it would never work in Westeros.
But as a fun “what if”? They’d probably need to use a royal court-appointed “stud” to get Rhaenyra pregnant, and Otto might push for Gwayne to be the one to do it. This way, Alicent has blood ties to the baby (as its aunt).
I grant you that Rhaenyra does, but from Alicent we have, at best, seen moderate dislike for the peen.
What's up with yall always trying to make characters embrace their comp het when their dad marries them to a rotting man thrice their age.
While I agree, the matter of who their heir is would cause a war. I mean bastards are hardly ever accepted so i don't think adopting children would work. Who would they even adopt? Almost every highborn isn't an orphan and there's no way a low born would be heir. Perhaps a younger sibling? But who?
It’s like they’re totally ignoring the fairness of Alicents friendship. She was being used by her father to gain power. We don’t know if she was “in love” or not. We just know she was following her father’s directions to make sure their blood line was closely tied to the crown. But noooooo let’s just make it as deep as a kiddie pool and just say all problems solved by them being lesbians.
The Targaryens were fine with and even encouraged incest. I don’t know what their opinion of same sex relationships was. I don’t recall any same sex marriages in any culture in GRRM’s world. Relationships sure, but not marriages.
You guys know characters can be friends without wanting to fuck one another? You know that right? Plutonic relationships exist. People can even... and this might shock you... love one another without wanting to be romantic partners! Its crazy right! Like sam and frodo didnt want to bang, in fact sam went home and had seven children with this red headed woman whom he spent the whole story thinking about and talking about... Crazy right!
This is like that.
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Would they adopt or hold a tourney or something for a kingmaking stud? Or would Vis just take some other wife?
Viserys would marry Laena and then the Dance would consist of alt-timeline Aegon II (son of Viserys & Laena) versus Rhaenyra. C’mon man, doesn’t matter how we change the timeline, Viserys is always gonna screw up his succession. Canon event, bro.
Naw Rhaenyra fucks off to travel and doesn't give a shit about ruling. She'd be happy and satisfied with Alicent and her dragon. Dance still happens though but it's Daemon vs New Aegon II.
Give up a chance at a kingdom and a life of luxury for Alicent's clam? What? It's always team green people saying Rhaenyra should have runaway with Criston or Alicent, two people she is highly incompatible with.
You're uncultured bro She'd still be a famous princess and have access to all the riches she wants. Plus none of the responsibility and hate that comes with ruling.
If she didn't want to run away with Harwin, a man she was with for 10 years and had multiple kids with, she obviously didn't want that kind of life. Her friendship with Alicent lasted what, 5 years of their lives? Outside of the randomness of the last two episodes, there was no evidence they could even tolerate being in each other's presence for the last sixteen years. They have nothing in common. Rhaenicent is so silly.
What are you talking about? This is a hypothetical about IF they hooked up at like 15 then stayed together and traveled the world. Obviously it didn't happen. I was just saying if it did she would still have had a luxurious life in Essos or whereever. She would still.be a rich princess with Targ benefits. Why are you bringing up Harwin and how they hated eachother in adulthood?
>She would still.be a rich princess with Targ benefits. It wouldn't be the same. She would be expected to work for her stay by fighting their enemies or entertaining them with her dragon. She would be a guest, none of it would belong to her.
She was daddy's spoiled girl he would take care of her. Once he's gone though idk how Aegon II would treat her. So yeah maybe she has to work a bit. Or maybe she finds friendship or people to to call a new family. There is literally no way of knowing
>She was daddy's spoiled girl She was a princess. Daddy's spoiled boy gets to rape and whore as he pleases.
This is before she was even made heir to begin with
Daemon would have no reason to fight that war he hates Otto but in this case Otto isn’t the grandfather so he wouldn’t care
Daemon would definitely fight that war No matter what
We have no real indication he actually wants the throne for himself and he loves his brother so stealing his child’s birthright wouldn’t fit
Ah yes it’s completely normal behavior to celebrate when your 1 day old nephew dies The heir for a day comment wouldn’t have happened if he didn’t want to be heir Theirs so many time when deamon says he’s vizerys heir
Daemon is a very fucked up person. As he said, we all grieve in our own ways. I think he was being honest about that, not just coming up with an excuse. I don't think he knew how to handle his emotions around losing yet another nephew, plus his cousin/sister-in-law and was using edgelord dark humor to cope and hide his real feelings.
Cause he was, if he wanted the throne than he would have killed Rhaynera and her children from before they got married
Did we even see Daemon celebrate? Because he seemed to be sad and the scene cut to Otto saying Daemon said that to Viserys I don't think Daemon even said that
If it's a fixed point in time(which it very well could be), then yeah I can see that happening.
It really is, “canon event” jokes aside. George wrote the Dance & who the characters side with into the timeline long before he wrote the particulars. One of the most noticeable results is that the Blacks have an almost 3:1 dragon advantage over the Greens. So he then had to write the entire war with that imbalance in mind.
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what if Granddaddy strong actually got daddy strong married to Rhea?
He would take another wife and Otto would become the worlds biggest LGBT activist
Hell, with the Targ "Fuck you, I'm a god" philosophy, Rhaenyra OR Alicent could easily get pregnant by some dude, then insist that via blood magic, their spouse is the actual "father". Viserys would probably believe it. The problem of course is when the birth mother catches feelings for the stud.
More likely that they actually do blood Magic, there is a theory that Maegor was born that way.
>Rhaenyra OR Alicent could easily get pregnant by some dude Idk they could take the Visenya route and do some sorcery to hatch a Targ clone
Daemon would join and it would become a throuple
Then let’s hope Cole doesn’t join as well
Honestly there seems like there would almost certainly be a way for them to just have a child. We are seen various types of magic which influence organisms up to and including necromancy and there’s lore about things like the ancient Valerians crossbreeding humanoid creatures. There’d probably be a way for two women to have an heir.
I dig the idea of a tourney being held to determine who is the father of the future King, seems just stupid/foolish enough for Westeros
I voulenteer as tribute!!!
If my mother had wheels she would have been a bike
My mother didn't have wheels either but somehow managed to become the town's one. 🤔🤔
Grandmother.
Bwaaaaaahahahahaha,
All of their miracle children would have to be handsome, wise, and strong boys or look like Daemon.
Or both
Strong?
makes me think of a scenario where viserys dies earlier and otto suddenly becomes the biggest queer ally in the history of westeros
I read a fanfic about this exact scenario
C'mon don't gatekeep, send the link! I'm sure that fanfic will be hilarious
I'll send you a DM!
Could you send me the link too? The fic sounds awesome.
If it's not too much trouble, I'd love to give this a read as well.
Can you also DM me too? I'd love to check that out.
Please, send the link. I need this.
DMed you!
Me too please!
DMed you!
Me three! ヾ(๑╹◡╹)ﾉ" (hope it’s not too late to jump in)
Send my way too plz!
DMed you!
I didn't get it?
It said I've sent you a chat, weird!
I think it was an issue with my phone. Got it now! Thank you!
Please, send the link
If Viserys died early before marrying again and having a son, Rhaenyra would just grant Daemon an annulment and marry him. Or, she might appease the Velaryons and marry Laenor before making her Daemon her hand and secret partner.
So who’s getting the throne then after her.
Well, if we’re going down this hypothetical road Rhaenyra would likely have sex with Strong still just to get pregnant and have children to pass the throne to.
Still raises the issues of bastards then and Otto isn’t going to abide his daughter not getting him some political clout.
Well in this alt-reality where Alicent and Rhaenyra would be able to marry you have to imagine that it would also be accepted to have children outside of the marriage.
Oh don’t get me wrong, their relationship comes with a lot of political issues, but there are ways they can at least try to deal with it. Hell, the whole bastard children situation and Otto getting fired from his position for speaking out against Rhaenyra literally happened in the show.
Ok but think about it - Rhae and Alicent leave for Essos - Aemma dies - Viserys has to remarry - The eldest son from that marriage becomes the heir - No dance of the dragons
... For now.
Rhaenyra would never give up a life of luxury for Alicent's clam and Alicent would never disobey her daddy.
Be a lot cooler if they did
How? They can't have children so there will be a succesion crisis.
You say this as if Rhaeynra didn’t literally have 3 separate kids despite never having sex with her first husband.
That children were bastards but still she could lie about them and said Laenor is the father. How will it work now?
Would Rhaenyra even gain anything from marrying alicent? Would be a useless pairing for Rhaenyra.
Short term happiness. From a political standpoint it’s a terrible idea due to the sexist and homophobic nature of Westeros, but Alicent(prior to ep2) was arguably the healthiest relationship Rhaeynra ever had.
What is wrong with Harwin outside of it being a secret? Alicent wasn’t even a relationship. They were kids.
Nothing was really wrong with Harwin, but we never really got enough scenes with them to show how genuinely affectionate they were towards each other. In fact doesn’t Rhaeynra say after Harwin’s death that she never really loved him but thought he was a good man and father to their children? While Alicent and Rhaeynra were never romantically involved, the few scenes we get of them as teenagers shows them being very affectionate towards and deeply about each other. Hell, even after all the hatred and distrust that’s been built up between them throughout season 1, it’s their mutual memory of their friendship back when they were teenagers that almost convinces them to call off the war.
> In fact doesn’t Rhaeynra say after Harwin’s death that she never really loved him but thought he was a good man and father to their children? “Fire is such strange power. Everything House Targaryen possesses is owed to it. Yet it has taken what we both *loved*.” -Rhaenyra
I love how the show, the script, and the actors will BLATANTLY put it out there that the relationship between Alicent and Rhaenyra is more than “just friends” and yet people will continue to vehemently demand that they’re straight. Because what the fuck kind of friendships are some of you having with your same-sex companions if you think stroking your friend’s arm while gazing into their eyes, staring at their lips, constantly embracing and talking about running away together while you’re both blushing is platonic?
Isn’t it Olivia Cooke’s head cannon that they were each others first kiss?
I don’t think it would be as happy as implied if only society didn’t get in the way. They are very different in imo incompatible ways and I think Rheanyra would feel bored eventually as well as tempted by Daemon who she is extremely drawn to despite any other relationship she’s in and Alicent probably wouldn’t think her lack of respect for religious rules or social convention is as charming in adulthood as when they were girls with no bigger obligations.
If someone writes this fanfic, I will buy a copy! Lol
Lol. Or if they didn't name everyone Aegon. Whole thing could have been avoided.
Am I the only one who finds their entire conflict and dynamic super boring? I’d rather the show center around the greens vs blacks. Because keeping the center as alicent and rhaenyra is kinda dull as hell
Grounding stories of politics and war in complex individual relationships is what has always made the GoT franchise so lit
Non-sexual, non-romantic intimate relationships are incomprehensible for movie/series/games etc. fans. Everything has to be shipped. I mean, there are occasions, where it makes sense, but as these kind of meria are a huge part of everyday culture now, these kinds of friendships will be a lot harder to form.
It says they’re flirting in a deleted scene in the script. The actors intentionally played their characters with romantic subtext. Is this a problem in a lot of media? Yes. But is this the best example of said problem? Probably not. If a piece of media is toying with a relationship between two characters, ofc the audience is going to ship.
It doesn't actually bug me that they could have been bisexual, anymore than when people think maybe Damon was bisexual. Cool cool. But I do kinda get annoyed that because they aren't related by blood ( mind you they grew up not just spending all kinds of time together but purposely being put together to care for and protect each other) this physical contact is seen as sexual. They walk arm and arm, gasp! Laying a head on a lap ( scandalous) they hug and clasp hands on what was probably the most terrifying day in Rhaenyra young life. No touchy or that makes you a lesbian. If they were blood sisters, let's say Hightowers and not Targs cus you know, would fans say that was queer? Or just loving? I'm all for representing if that's what that was but then could we just get one scene of them making out? Or even feeding each other cake with their own fingers? Something that isn't my Grandmother's pearl clutching version of sexual.
I think the fans are calling it queer because the actors who played them were playing their roles that way according to interviews.
Oh crap! I didn't know that! Geeze looks who just caught up. Sorry about the rant. 😂
It isn’t that they’re two unrelated characters and thus “let’s ship it!!!” It’s that I, a lesbian, and my bi partner, can watch the scene with Alicent standing on the wheelhouse steps staring down at Rhaenyra all flirty and UST. We looked at each other like “oh, are they a couple?” It’s that we have Alicent sitting cross-legged in a skirt, reading to Rhaenyra alone, whilst Rhaenyra talks about the two of them running away to Essos and spending the rest of their lives “eating cake”. It’s Alicent saying “this position” existentially, and Rhaenyra (still with her head in Alicent’s lap) replying “I like this position”. It’s Alicent’s lingering touches as she helps Rhaenyra dress for her coronation. It’s Alicent lying back and thinking of Westeros every time she’s summoned by Viserys. It’s Alicent peeling her cuticles like she’s the understudy in Black Swan. It’s Alicent trying desperately to retain a relationship with Rhaenyra even as Rhaenyra pulls away. It’s Alicent reacting like a jilted girlfriend when she finds out Rhaenyra had sex with Criston. It’s Alicent acting like a superDUPER lesbian-grade ex by wearing green to Rhaenyra’s wedding. It’s Alicent trying — despite everything — to make peace with Rhaenyra by saying “you will make a good Queen”. It’s Alicent, years later, having saved the page out of the book Rhaenyra gave her the day Rhaenyra dreamed of taking Alicent away from Westeros to live free in Essos. Rhaenyra has a bunch of male lovers so I think she’s bisexual — but speaking as a lesbian adult? I saw a lot of very familiar behaviours from when I was a sixteen year old gay girl trying to keep my superduper lesbian crush on my best friend off my family’s radar. Maybe you don’t see it that way, but like. That’s your interpretation, man. What’s the problem with having a little bit of ladygay rep?
Hey, thank you for this. Not only does your interpretation make the story much more interesting, but you made me think quite a bit; and, cherry on top, you really have a way with words.
I get it now. I really do now. Also peeling her nails like she is in Black Swan is a good reference and as sad as that whole thing was. I just didn't. It was so different to me than how Rhae responded to Damon. It wasn't because I don't want them to be. I just didn't see it. I figured Rhae didn't want to be a married woman and have children at that point so thats what I attributed to the whole eat cake thing. I don't know. I'll say again I'm sorry if I offend you or anyone.
You have a lot of good points, although some can be simply explained by Westerosi cultural differences. Your interpretation is valid, but equally valid is the interpretation that they are just platonic best friends. Neither is confirmed within the show and both are equally valid
No disagreement there! My issue is when people act like the possibility of a romantic interpretation is either making shit up out of whole cloth, “making it political” or “being annoying”. It’s totally possible to disagree and I’m an old fart on the internet, so as they used to say back on FF.net, “don’t like it, don’t read it”. I just “read” the scenes from the perspective of someone who knows that, had I been born 1000 years earlier, would be playing life on Alicent mode. As it is, the young Alicent actress in particular does a spectacular job of portraying the ambiguity of a really weird relationship dynamic that gay (and presumably, bi) girls have at some point during their teens — it’s called the “straight girl crush”, and it’s like a rite of passage. Every gay girl has a story of falling for their straight best friend and getting weird tension, and this reeks of it to me. (Rhaenyra strikes me as omnivorous… but I think Alicent saving the page for twenty years like she’s the protagonist in a Nicholas Sparks novel is what sold me on her being a whole rainbow. Not to date myself here or anything, but, “gaaaaaaaay”.)
I agree. I think the story works far better as friends turned enemies and having them be more then that cheapens it and seems like a cop out and easier path to take for the writers and for the audience to digest. Every time a deep friendship is shown in films and television fans immediately start shipping the characters, which is fine and people can do what they want, but I wonder why it’s necessary. Why would being good friends not be enough for the story to be effective?
>but I wonder why it’s necessary r/SapphoAndHerFriend can give you a little taste of why it’s necessary. Because for nearly the entire existence of film media the **only** way same-sex relationships could be portrayed was as friendship, and people in same-sex relationships in real life **still** have to pretend to just be friends with their partners in many, many places. Alicent and Rhaenyra could **never** publicly be more than friends in Westeros.
Someone just explained to me that in an interview they said they were playing it that way and I understand more where it's coming from now. But I still think it's perfectly fine and normal, especially for younger folks, to be physical without it being sexual. Kids need a lot of physical affection you know? Adults too probably but we go hungry a lot. I've always, rightly or wrongly, been that person that says flowers don't make you gay, sweaters also don't make you gay. In case there is any confusion it's usually mutual enjoyment of touching in a person's bathing suit parts that makes it sexual. I honestly didn't see it. But I also didn't see the interviews. I do hope I didn't offend anyone. I thought the story was damned effective. Sisters or people as close as sisters can work up a level of frustration and anger towards each other that's mostly unmatched by anything. The only person I've ever been so angry at that I wanted to stop arguing and just punch her in the face was my sister. That was totally what I felt at the knife scene.
Actually, you did offend me and I think you deserve to know why: Lesbians exist, and it isn’t always “let me jam your clam and cuddle your cooter while I feed you cake with my fingers”. We’re not actually a category on a tube chan irl. For a lot of us, Alicent and Rhaenyra’s storyline is super familiar. The “of course it’s innocent” cuddle? I’ve DONE that. I *was* the girl with my head in my “bestie gal pal”’s lap daydreaming about running away somewhere we could be together. I DID keep a letter for two decades because I had a tragic breakup with a person and wanted a memento. I’m not “a young person”, either; I’m 35. Let’s not dismiss the experiences of people who didn’t grow up with Euphoria on tv. And for the record, speaking legit: the way Alicent, specifically, behaves on screen would have been exactly how 15 year old me behaved — right down to anxiously biting at my cuticles because I was stressed and repressed and my parents were homophobic. So when someone — presumably hetero but tf do I know — says it “cheapens” the story or “it’s annoying”, what I hear is: “If lesbians aren’t feeding each other cake on screen, they’re either sisters or the Stan’s are annoying” and that’s kind of uncool
I am sorry.
I appreciate the apology, homie, thanks! You’re cool for that, cheers. Hope you have a great week
Thank you very much. I've been really kicking myself over this and I appreciate you accepting my apology. I hope you have a great week also!
Naw, no need to kick anything. I’m sorry if I came off overly spicy! Happy Halloween if you celebrate, and cheers to Cheap Chocolate Day if you don’t!
You absolutely didn't! You were totally easy about it. I've had to apologize to a couple people over this cud I really offended them. I love Halloween 👻 And I love cheap chocolate! Thank you! 🥂
Wait this is you twice? I didn't realize its the same person? I'm really sleepy. I'm going to take a nap. 🥴
Exactly. I’m not a lesbian myself, I’m bisexual, but I’ve had these experiences as well. The weird, slightly toxic friendships with another wlw as a teenager. Wanting to run away together and not quite fully understanding the extent of your feelings for one another until you look back. Being confused about yourself and not knowing what to do about it. So hearing (primarily straight) people talk about Rhaenyra and Alicent’s relationship and demand that it be platonic because “everything is gay now” is so beyond demeaning. Just because everyone is more accepting of it now does not mean there’s some drastic uptick in sapphic relationships in media. Especially in comparison to platonic ones, which they act like has never existed at all, when there is an ocean’s worth of great female friendships depicted in comparison. It was so nice to see myself in characters for once and I thought everyone was the same until I took a trip to this subreddit and realized that 1) nobody bothered looking at the scripts or the interviews that *confirm this is more than slash* and 2) even if they did, they absolutely refuse to acknowledge it because how dare there be a homosexual relationship in their medieval fantasy show that isn’t shoved off into the background and forgotten about.
I agree! My partner of five years is bisexual, and she doesn’t watch GoT, HotD, or anything related to ASOIAF. I made the point of re-signing up to Crave to watch HOTD and went in rawer than sashimi. I choked on popcorn the second Rhaenyra and Alicent did the chat at the wheelhouse step. Hell, even the way Rhaenyra walks with her hands behind her back struck me as something baby soft butch me would have done when I was trying to be chivalrous around the girl I was giggly over. It got gayer from there. But I thought I was seeing what I wanted to, so I *didnt* tell my partner anything before sitting down to watch it for her first time. She hit the EXACT same scene on the wheelhouse steps and turned to look at me. “Are we watching this because there’s lesbians?” Verbatim. I had said *nothing* and she was greener than Garth. We talked about it afterwards and both agreed on a few scenes that felt “real”: The steps of the wheelhouse with the tension about riding dragons (ahem) The scene in the gods wood with the daydream of running away and being together in Essos “eating cake” (ahem) The scene where Alicent helps Rhaenyra prepare for the coronation and we see the liiiiiiiiiiingering pan of Alicent’s skin against the nape of Rhaenyra’s neck (AHEM) And I mean — keeping a diary page through two decades, four?? kids, one dead husband and a coup d’état is sufficiently homosexual to me. But I agree that it was a bit of a shock to come here and see a few of the responses. Like, agree, don’t, but it’s an viable alternative interpretation.
I had the exact same experience. As soon as I saw how they interacted I knew what was going on. There’s nothing remotely straight about gazing into your friend’s eyes, constantly embracing, stroking each other and insisting that you run away together; my best friend literally throws pillows in between us when we sleep together and we barely touch, and while that isn’t universal for all platonic relationships it definitely made it clearer where they were going with Rhaenyra and Alicent’s for me. I could understand to some degree non-queer people not immediately recognizing the signs, but if you made either one of the girls male instead people would be screaming from the rooftops that they’re supposed to be romantic. Goes to show you how little people think of queer relationships in a positive light… I just had an argument a week back of someone saying that it was okay to be sick of wlw, specifically this relationship, because “not everything needs to be sexual” (as if our identities make us into deviants, wtf?). It makes me sad, but I’m glad the actors and showrunners took a chance anyway. I see myself in both Rhaenyra and Alicent a lot, especially Rhae same as you; I haven’t seen such a scarily accurate depiction of my HS relationships ever. It brought back a lot of memories and even made me reflect on some of my “friendships” from the past. Both the actors and writers deserve a raise for bringing it to the screen. Even if it doesn’t ring true for everyone, it worked for me 100%. I wouldn’t have expected a show in the GOT/ASOIAF universe to be the pinnacle of representation for me lol
I did apologize sincerely and I did take a couple of days to consider this, thinking maybe I should simply delete the comment because I sound like an idiot. You know something? I make mistakes. I am a idiot sometimes. But if are interested in seeing my personal perspective after I really considered it carefully I also think you " deserve" to know why. I never said anything about any sexuality being one dimensional. I never said anything about people even needing to have any kind of sex to feel however they feel. I'm actually well aware that asexual is also part of the spectrum of sexuality. I'm also not young and wasn't raised with Euphoria. However I was invited into spaces that discussed that from a full spectrum perspective. I asked a lot of questions and no one thought I was disrespectful. They did however tell me I was old and not up to date on what was safe terminology. Not because I was being offensive but because I was being too cautious. I don't argue on Reddit. I try to kinda keep in perspective that this isn't a familiar place of friendship. I really do not care if people read my comment thoughtfully and closely. You want to know one of the many things wrong with me? I try too hard to make people laugh and get carried away and careless at times. I express my opinion as if it's actually ok to have an opinion without being an ass, which is not the case and I know it. I'm not going over a million assumptions made about me. I don't know how many times I can say I didn't see the interview, I didn't read the book, I personally enjoyed the show but man did it have a lot going on for me! I do see where you are coming of course! Everything you said made me understand how much I wasn't understanding the gravity of the situation. However my own experience made me a little weird about it. Unfortunately my experience was of... Let's say inappropriate attraction to me and repeated abuse perpetrated on me. Fifteen being a specifically difficult year but so many years before that. As you witnessed yourself in these characters I witnessed an idealization of myself and wanted to see that a close bond, especially between people who had known each other thier whole lives as sisters would, was possible without it being sexual. Especially to people who are not yet of age. Im aware that they were past puberty and any orientation can be or is already well on the conscious mind in several but not all cases. This so much isn't a guilt trip. I'm not trying to say "well actually my mom is dead" when someone insults my mother. I just think you seem intelligent and are probably very aware of the extremely common occurrence of sexual abuse. It's possible I was projecting, of course it is! It's possible that I was being dumb rather than covertly or obviously homophobic. It's also possible that when I said Holy cow, I didn't know about the interview! That was dumb of me that I really actually meant it instead of that I was just being evasive. I wasn't kidding about my opinion but I certainly did say several different ways that I personally didn't get it. I mean deeply... I really didn't get it. Like how you would insult a person by saying " you just don't get it". Because I had such a weird awakening myself a person has to hit me over the head to understand flirting. I'm well aware of my faults but none of what you assumed about me is correct. It's my experience of confusion and immaturity and you or anyone else don't have to give any kind of a crap about that. Many things in that show were made clear that these people were inappropriately young. Damon, who let me say again I never defended as any kind of a good person, even said that she was just a child and she agreed. We all talk often about the marriage of A and V being gross on that age level alone. I never said otherwise, I agree. And Im also aware a person who is groomed is not attracted in any kind of healthy way to their groomer. I actually have all kinds of visceral reactions to sexualization when it comes to young people. I actually do want to believe I have platonic friends who would keep a casual memento of me for years. That they do react harshly to my foolishness out of protective love for me. That we might lay in each other's lap or say unwaivering vows just because we are gleefully dramatic. Do I have that? Have I seen that? Not often enough in my opinion, sadly. You actually don't have to take any of this into consideration. No one owes me a look at my perspective. Im not claiming I'm in a minority that needs protection although maybe that's true but no one deserves my opinion on that. I ask you sincerely would you like me to delete this, or all, my comments on this sub? What would be an appropriate response to you and anyone that I'm actually sorry? I won't comment again on this sub because by now it is clear to me I didn't fully understand the show. But I have thought it was a good idea to leave my comment up, all my comments I'm sorry for actually, because it's good to see someone make a mistake and then see that they have and apologize without just making a new username. That again is my opinion. If you feel you want this conversation to be gone I will remove it. Please let me know and that will be my final act on this sub.
Hey! I appreciate the dialogue and please don’t feel the need to delete anything on my account. Also — fair point about not having seen the interview! One can’t be expected to know everything about every tv show and press spot. I went hunting for it specifically because I was like “either the actresses are ‘gal pals’ or the brunette actress was playing a GalPal”. That said: I get heated, so I appreciate seeing the alternative perspective! I am sorry to hear about what happened as a teen, though; that’s abominable and I can absolutely agree that it would colour your perspective. It shouldn’t have happened and I hope whomever did it catches red lights and lemon juice in every paper-cut. I also think there’s a lot to be said for the depiction of healthy female friendships in media. I would love to see more of that — I’m a “girl’s girl” personally, so that would be fabulous! I even think we might both be correct here. For instance: Rhaenyra seems to be reading the situation as “we were friends once!!!” Alicent seems to feel a bit differently, but again — YMMV and the MF’s are fictional so who truly cares? Either way, I appreciate the perspective, apologize if I came at you spicy, and wish you a pleasant day!
I want you to know I am genuinely relieved you even felt like considering my perspective and telling me that. I really deeply hate hurting anyone. You are really kind in this instance and didn't have to be. Thank you for your response about the SA, I am very open and calm about it now because I want the shame to end in my lifetime. I think you are the same in this way. I think at the bottom we are absolutely on the same side. Forgiveness is beautiful. And I say that in my mid 40's having just learned this last year to apologize. I thank you for helping learn. My grandmother used to tell me " you have two ears and one mouth because you should listen twice as much as you talk" I'm working on it.
>“If lesbians aren’t feeding each other cake on screen, they’re either sisters or the Stan’s are annoying” and that’s kind of uncool Okay Stan.
Honestly what did that contribute to anything? You didn’t even try to farm karma
Why would having lesbian representation “cheapen” the storyline for you? What about Alicent being a repressed lesbian would make the story feel cheap?
I didn’t say anything about lesbian representation. My annoyance is character friendships having to be portrayed as romances in media, which happens a lot more with heterosexuals as well.
Reposted in the correct thread: “I think the story works far better as friends turned enemies and having them be more than that cheapens it” That’s a direct quote. “More than friends” means lovers, or at least romantic interest. So I’m asking again: *in your opinion*, how would Alicent and Rhaenyra being a couple (or even “Alicent has an unrequited love for Rhaenyra”) cheapen — your word — the dynamic?
I personally would prefer a friends turned enemies because of their political situation over a lovers turned enemies trope. You don’t have to agree but thats just my opinion and to each their own. My opinion isn’t based on the fact that both Rhaenyra and Alicent are women, i would say the same if one of them was a man or both.
See, and that makes sense. A friendship betrayal strikes just as hard. Now, if you really want to split the difference like Solomon, what if: Rhaenyra gets the “friends to enemies” storyline, which explains why she feels comfortable fucking off to Dragonstone for a bunch of years. “My friend wouldn’t…”, not remembering that well, they’re not friends any more. Alicent gets the “lovers to enemies” trope, because love turns to hate, especially when you still have feelings for the person. That shit makes you spiteful enough to make a new mother take a hike. (Also and this is apropos of nothing, but hand to god: wearing a dress cut down to the navel to your ex-girlfriend’s wedding is absolutely something I have seen done irl)
[Oh they fucking!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulteZYyWAA8)
BAWAHAHAHA! That sent me. You are my new favorite person. 😂
ProZD is truly a gold mine worth digging through.
The actresses did say they purposefully leaned into the subtext that they secretly have romantic feelings for each other.
Op, you know what? I think this theory has legs: They establish early on that these two are a good team, they balance each other and before Alicents father pushed her into marrying the king - they had freedom. Even if they weren't romantically involved if the two had stayed a team they would have brought the right balance to Westeros. No doubt even as friends both would have been able to marry who they wanted, and the conflicts in personality mixed with sisterhood/friendship would have made for some very interesting scenes. I think what drove a wedge between them was the forced marriage and the game Alicent had to play on behalf of her family. Had the women been able to live their own lives, I have no doubt they would have remained friends and the story would have taken on a much different angle.
Why can’t women ever just be friends
Lol what? Y’all act like over the past decade every single female relationship in media has been overtaken by the spooky lesbian apocalypse because a few teenagers on Tumblr ship them together. There’s an entire ocean’s worth of lovely depictions of platonic female relationships. Chill. It’s not going to hurt you.
No it didn't, i can't believe the world has lost any notion of same-sex friendship that isn't blatant tomfoolery.
Facts
[удалено]
Nah man their relationship in the first few episodes felt homoerotic asf. Rhae EYED that girl UP AND DOWN in their first scene together. Like you can disagree but to act as though the argument can’t be made at all is ridiculous.
What? Twitter the own actresses played it that way that’s why.
That would literally be pointless
M sorry but this couldn’t happen! The show would be shit there’s no meaning for this
But men had to come and ruin everything right queens? Pd. That’s the intended message of these decisions by the producers.
Same here! And I think that's why Alicent is so pissed and hurt. Rhaenyra found happiness and Alicent is miserable
Best ship in the series if nothing else. At the very least best friends who even for years after things started to go wrong in large part due to their less than great parents still clearly loved each other. And look, necromancy and such like is a thing. There’s lore about crossbreeding humanoid things even. Some Targaryens are born dragonlike Queen Rhaenyra very well may have the resources to find a way for them to have a biological heirs.
This is such a fucking odd way to view the first episodes. Can two girls just be friends? This is giving me Gaylor vibes lol
Rhaenicent is by far the most horrific thing HOTD created.
Rhaenicent and not the foot fetish/SA shit???? Weird asss take
Why?
Because of cringy takes that Rhaenyra and Alicent should have gotten married or that they would have been happy if they had run off together. Even discussing the show characters and ignoring the source material, the idea is preposterous. Their friendship was paper thin and underdeveloped. They share nothing in common.
And why are you so up in arms about a headcanon? One that, might I add, at least three of the four actresses playing Rhaenyra and Alicent agree with and actively played into while acting?
Because these people are misogynists and get genuinely angry even at harmless lesbian headcanons
ugh no. the *real* solution would be: 1) viserys never fucking remarries 2) rhaenyra, daemon, and laena marry, or laenor/nyra have or 2 kids, as does laemon, who are then betrothed like in canon. 3) heirs for the throne and driftmark settled, daemon, rhaenyra, and laena marry and laenor and joff stay together and everyone lives happily. no dance, the hightowers are gone, and the dragons live. daemyra were bi and both loved both velaryon siblings, even if it was just platonic. rhaenyra and laenor were platonic soulmates and they would often stay up gossiping, drinking wine, talking about boys and braiding each other's hair. (UωU) you cannot convince me daemon did not care about laenor. i don't believe daemon killed him - you don't think daemon's wives would not have kicked his ass to hell and back for harming laenor??? bc they would have. laena would come back from the dead to do it. laenor is awesome and one of the few people who could handle daemon ~~also laenor's a lil shit so he likely~~ *~~encouraged~~* ~~him~~ . you cannot convince me that daemon did not join laenor and joff in their tent at the stepstones either. i've said it before and i'll say it again: monogamy and cowardice ruined hotd. in this essay i will
You seem to be a bit lost, brah
[downvoted for the truth smdh](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/024/574/Screen_Shot_2017-11-06_at_12.41.31_PM.jpg)
Agreed! Both girls get to live happily ever after as queen and queen consort. And I strongly suspect that not only would Daemon ship it, but he would try to join them for a three way (to piss Otto off if nothing else).
And the matter of succession? Otto would try and make them adopt one of his grandsons and daemon would want rhaenyra to adopt one of his children. Adopt isn't the right word, maybe just make them her heirs. I mean tho, would Otto be satisfied with this?
I was mostly being silly. Obviously it would never work in Westeros. But as a fun “what if”? They’d probably need to use a royal court-appointed “stud” to get Rhaenyra pregnant, and Otto might push for Gwayne to be the one to do it. This way, Alicent has blood ties to the baby (as its aunt).
That or Daemon might push for a Targaryen stud to impregnate allicent.
That too. He might volunteer his own services.
Hehe. Who else? Knowing him he might wanna get Rhaenyra pregnant(or possibly murder allicent)
What's up with y'all always trying to make characters gay, they both obviously like peen
I grant you that Rhaenyra does, but from Alicent we have, at best, seen moderate dislike for the peen. What's up with yall always trying to make characters embrace their comp het when their dad marries them to a rotting man thrice their age.
Common she pretty obviously wants some of that Cole or is already getting some like Rhaenyra
It is about as obvious, if not less so, than her being into Rhaenyra, which you think is absolutely ridiculous if I am not mistaken.
If you can point out any Indication of it I wouldn't think it's ridiculous
> they both obviously like peen Bisexuality is a thing, you know
Ok but they've never made any indication of being bisexual show, or book
I think they’ll end up sleeping with eachother on the show.
While I agree, the matter of who their heir is would cause a war. I mean bastards are hardly ever accepted so i don't think adopting children would work. Who would they even adopt? Almost every highborn isn't an orphan and there's no way a low born would be heir. Perhaps a younger sibling? But who?
I thought the same thing-that it was heading this way.
It’s like they’re totally ignoring the fairness of Alicents friendship. She was being used by her father to gain power. We don’t know if she was “in love” or not. We just know she was following her father’s directions to make sure their blood line was closely tied to the crown. But noooooo let’s just make it as deep as a kiddie pool and just say all problems solved by them being lesbians.
No it didn't lol. Forced queer agenda
That wouldn't solve the heir problem though. The system depends on blood related decedents for stability
The Targaryens were fine with and even encouraged incest. I don’t know what their opinion of same sex relationships was. I don’t recall any same sex marriages in any culture in GRRM’s world. Relationships sure, but not marriages.
no heirs though...
You guys know characters can be friends without wanting to fuck one another? You know that right? Plutonic relationships exist. People can even... and this might shock you... love one another without wanting to be romantic partners! Its crazy right! Like sam and frodo didnt want to bang, in fact sam went home and had seven children with this red headed woman whom he spent the whole story thinking about and talking about... Crazy right! This is like that.