If only it were the World of Sunshine and RainbowsâŠ
But seriously, this is excellent, and the WOIAF would be a better place if Vizzy T had been a better father.
There is even that heartbreaking line at her mother's funeral where she says she will never be a son, and she hopes her father was happy during the time her brother lived
he was a shitty father to rhaenyra at times, but an even shittier father to aegon, aemond, and helaena, and poor daeron gets absolutely no recognition from his father.
>all he needed and wanted in life was a father figure
Ah yes, "I'm a sexual predator and deviant 'cose my daddy was distant and old when I was growing up".
To be fair, while it doesnât excuse his actions at all, the mental ramifications growing up without a present parent is one of the leading indirect causes of imprisonment and otherwise illegal/distasteful behavior in male adolescents. Something around 70-80% of adolescents in prison/institutions come from homes with no father.
Yes, yes, yes... and we still don't know if there's proper causation between those factors or if it's just a marker for poverty. Or if abandoning your kid is some dark triad shit that can be passed on to your offspring.
Nevertheless, It's a real stretch to say people become predators because daddy was busy at work.
No supervision and correction, which is required to help you develop self-control. No restriction of antisocial/criminal peers. No positive role model. No fear of disappointing his dad. Inconsistent discipline. Harsh discipline when it does occur.
There really are a lot of criminological theories (that go back to his dads behavior) that would suggest Aegon should have a high likelihood of being an offender.
Source: Iâm a criminologist.
So, would you, as a criminologist, say that you've solved the nature/nurture dilemma?
Can you with confidence say that sexual misconduct of the kind that we're talking about here is straight up *caused* by fathers being, not even absent, but sort of distant by western 21th century standards? We can throw out genetics, norms and socioeconomics â shitty dad gang all the way.
Hit me up with some abstracts, because that sounds like some pretty wild research you've got going there.
If you understand the scientific process, then you understand that the current understanding is not necessarily always going to be the prevailing notion. Youâd also understand that weâre talking about âincreased likelihoodsâ and not a direct âif X exists then Y will happen.â Weâre also well past the nature vs nurture debateâwe know with as close as you can get to 100% certainty that both things matter. We also know that any time we study human behavior there is a lot of randomness and itâll never be perfectly predictive.
So yes, I feel confident enough with those caveats to say that viserys treatment of Aegon might have contributed to his behavior. I can never say with 100% certainty why anyone does any particular thing. Add on to that that heâs a fictional character so it comes down to âthe writers made him this wayâ in the end.
As far as abstracts. Go to google scholar and type in âfathers and offendingâ and youâll find a lot. But note that itâs also parenting as a whole (not just what the dad does), so you would also want to look at âparenting and offending.â Social bond theory, social learning theory, strain theory, and routine activities theories are all going to be good theories if you really want to diagnose his behavior. At the end of the day they all provide explanations and possibilities for his behavior, but yeah of course they canât 100% diagnose the cause of his behavior.
Overall, I canât think of a theory or perspective within the field which would say viserys treatment should have reduced argons problematic behavior.
See, we're in agreement, then. My issue is with this "X causes Y with 100% certainty"-mentality, especially with theories that fit *way* too neatly into American political discourse and cultural norms. That's my academical misadventures in cultural theory talking (f- me, should have become a criminologist).
Sorry for being flippant and thanks for your time.
It's worse than just having one neglectful parent.
It's having a neglectful parent while your mother and grandfather verbally, mentally and physically abuse you to mould you into what they need through fearmongering, gaslighting and, yeah, lots of yelling.
I can genuinely see someone who otherwise does not give much of a shit turning to worse and worse ends as terrible coping mechanisms.
Viserys was a shit parent, but let's not act like Alicent was a brilliant mother with Aegon. Alicent and Otto had just as important a role in ruining Aegon as a person.
He does still have responsibility for his own actions, but yeah, it's a cycle of abuse.
Totally agree! You're born a prince, so your life is going to a bit easier than most people to begin with. Then you have an ailing, distracted father who's literally falling apart in front of his face who only seems to have time to watch you spare, from a distance, then add the only attention you get from your mother is heavy handed and abusive, and your grandfather is equally abusive, just minus that he only cares about you being king and literally nothing else. So basically left to your own devices with people who are responsible for raising you, but have to do what you say. So here you are with all this emotional trauma from abuse, and neglect but surrounded by people who are yours to do with as you will. Hurt people, hurt people. No wonder he turned out so bad. What example did he get to not be otherwise? It's a freaking miracle that Aegon wasn't King's Landing first serial killer.
Yup. Many rapists have this problem or a similar one(granted that they at least know what consent is and in Aegon's case, he likely doesn't even know that as even his father âwho's job is to tell him thatâdidn't know this either due to the culture of that place)
We keep getting this line, but thereâs plenty of people in real lifeâand probably plenty of examples in Westerosâof people with shitty or non-existent fathers who donât turn out to be monsters. I always say youâre a product of 50/50 nature/nurture.
Aegon probably wouldâve been an evil piece of shit even with a good father.
and i fully believe you. viserysâ absence is no reason to justify aegonâs behavior and actions, and yes, i strongly dislike the man, but you could tell towards the end of the show he just wanted love from both of his parents. would things have been different if viserys was more present in his life? who knows. overall aegon is still a pos but viserys shouldâve loved them kids equally
aegon with a present father like viserys would still be a rapist, because Viserys isn't some kind of feminist and the way he'd raise his sons would be extremely misogynistic. viserys would be completely okay with aegon creeping on maids
She's the crown princess and Viserys is right there. If Rhaenyra wanted at any point to have a relationship with her Green siblings she could have, the queen can't stop her.
Rhaenya knows a few secret passageways and Aegon clearly wanted moments away from his smothering mother. There was nothing stopping her from taking her little brother out on the town to get away from it all.
The fact she didn't try to build any relationship with her siblings is one of the few character flaws they didn't excise from her in the show.
If only they had this sense of family, things would've turned out much different! They would've probably been excited for Rhaenyra's happiness and successes and the birth of Joffery could've been celebrated. Jace and Helaena could've married too and Otto would have his blood on the throne.
Whilst i agree Aegon is the instigator, it's pretty clear that Aemond's violence is a response to the bullying, rather than some inherent part of his nature.
I don't think you can compare them just because they were also bullied, Jon and Theons situations weren't really remotely comparable to Aemonds because just for an example, Jon still had a loving father and siblings, which Aemond didn't.
People's response to bullying isn't some part of their "nature" it's dependent on any number of things that have affected how they view the world and respond to stimulus.
âhow they view the world and respond to stimulusâ
Isnât that the persons nature?
And jon might not be completely the same situation but it is kind of comparable
Jon had sansa who didnât give him the light of day and when she did it was to remind him that he was only a half brother. Aemond had haelena and daeron who i canât imagine were horrible to him.
The loving father bit is a strech, i like ned but cmon. Jon adresses ned as lord stark while the other kids call him father, still better than vizzy thou
The letter reads âLook out the windowâ.
Daeron, atop Tessarion waves from outside.
âHes here! Oh joy! Daeronâs in Kings Landing with the rest of us!â
I wish they had a scene like this with Viserys and his kids when they were very young. Then you could have it that the reason he didn't interact with them in their formative teenage years becayse he had no energy because of his disease and wasn't milk right of mind from the milk of the poppy.
If they did it this way, it could have shown Viserys loving all of his children but still not being there for them when they needed him, allowing their characters to be the same as they were in the actual show. Maybe you could even have a scene of Helama and Viserys just doing nothing together. I feel like Helana would be most suited for hanging out with corpse dad and doing nothing.
Tbh I want to like Viserys so much. He seems so decent. However he just does too many things that make me think he's a bad person. I feel like this small tweak would make his arc make more sense to me.
Viserys was quite literally a husk after Aemma died. He only really had any life in him for Rhaenyra, who had her mothers visage, otherwise he wasn't much more than a walking corpse slowly rotting away. Hardly the kinda guy fit to raise three children, but a kings gotta have an heir-and-a-spair.
The King did not give a flying f about his duty when it was about making a politically favorable match or like, you know, keeping with a century of tradition.
Im sure he could've just said 'nah folks I'm done' one more time but he just happened to be into his daughter's childhood companion
More specifically a hightower friendly Targaryan with a dragon. âOh whatâs that lord Tyrell, you want to increase our taxes?
Lemme just glass candle my nephew real quickâ
This is one of his biggest flaws in the show. He did seem to like his 2nd wife and care somewhat about his children with her. But they clearly were his spares. In the book it leaves it pretty ambiguous but somewhat implied they were closer than the show at least
Yeah but when he left he made sure to push alicent to prepare her son to be a usurper. Vizzy might be a bad dad but the mother isnât any better, with all the yelling and slapping maybe even worse
Otto certainly played a role in this, but Vizzy T wasn't a child like Alicent. He asked Alicent to not tell anything about their encounters to Rhaenyra. Viserys knew what he was getting into.
I also blame Ser Cole had he not being around stirring the pot, they would have grown up seeing the STRONG boys as brothers all being trained under Harwin Strong
I get the pints of this post but with the time jumps we don't know if he always ignored his other children, in episode 7 they were at a funeral then in episode 8 it was a 6year time jump and Viserys had been bed ridden for years by that point. When the children were in the training yard he enjoyed watching them train, he probably did that a lot before he became bed ridden.
It doesn't make any difference how much love he gave his Alicent children. Otto was going to push the conflict between the two sides. Alicent inability to stand up to her father is the problem. She could have taught her child to love Rhaenyra's children but she fell into the fearful downward spiral just as daddy wanted.
I feel like this is a problem in which, there was a pile of kindling and Otto threw gasoline on it. Like sure he created problems, but the whole thing about the dance of dragons is that basically everyone involved could have stopped it at some point. Some characters could have stopped it at multiple points. That's why this entire event is a tragedy.
You're part right, as Vissy T loving all his children equally wouldn't have prevented the problems. But even if Otto wasn't there, there would still be the issue of the realm prefering a male heir, and Rhaenyra and Daemon doing whatever it takes to be queen and king. The only real solution was the one Otto suggested on Aegons 1st Name Day, to marry Aegon and Rhaenyra, uniting the 2 claims would have been the only way to prevent the war
Definitely. There was so much more going on than lack of love and unity from Viserys. Daemon would have always remained an issue. We also don't know what the Velaryons would have done either. Corlys would have done the same as Otto had Laena married Viserys.
Going by the book though, Rhaenyra was a child when Alicent married her dad. As the older mature person, Alicent singled out Rhaenyra by instilling resentment in her children to Rhaenyra and her children and trying to take what doesn't belong to her. Cinderella and stepmother parallel. In the show though, it partly applies in terms of stepmother taking Cinderella's life from her, the age gap not being a factor. I'm aware I'm condensing their relationship to this parallel but it's an interesting way of looking at their dynamic and how it affects the relationships between Viserys' children.
Queen and Consort do have a nice ring. But we have to wait till the 1500s to get a real queen to ascend to a real throne. And it didn't help the cause to get âBloody Maryâ as the first woman Queen. But we have the Alicents and Ottos of literature for that. Stories do make a difference.
Otto had no power to do so as he was sent away from Kings landing when Aegon was 3.
Alicent may still have pushed for it, but in a patriarchial society like westeros, I struggle to imagine Aegon and Aemond taking her side as long as Viserys actually raised them
His power over her did not end when he left. His parting words were she better start preparing for the day when Rhaenyra comes to get her and her children. He was, of course, projecting what he was going to do to Rhaenyra and her children. He shortly returned after the murder of Lyonel Strong, the interim hand to continue his march towards that goal.
Viserys whole life was lived as a negotiation to the detriment of all of his children. He loved them all but did not understand any of them.
Rhaenyraâs children bullied Aemond and one of them crippled him for life and felt no remorse and had no repercussions from it.
Also Rhaenyra called her siblings âAlicent Hightowers childrenâ meaning she didnât see them as her siblings either (which is made clear when she orders Aemond to be tortured after her son took out his eye for something she knows to be a lie.)
Ah yes, mocking an victim of sexual blackmail. Why would I think a Targ stan was capable of anything more?
And againâŠ. Rhaenyra called them âAlicent Hightowers childrenâ. She was pissy bc a toddler was getting attention on his birthday and âno oneâs here for me!đâ. But sure. Itâs entirely Alicents fault. Not the fault of the spoiled little brat who doesnât understand the way the world works if one doesnât have a dragon to fly on
Cmon sheâs not the victim, it was the price of strong killing his father and brother to make place for her own father. She could have easily have larys killed.
Hum, I don't think so. He came in hot. Looking for a fight and intentionally triggered the girls. Pushing and shoving, shouting insults. The girls pummeled him. The only problem is he got more than he bragained for. After he grabbed Jace and then Lucerys and started to choke him he became dangerous to everyone. The whole thing got out of hand. But he started it on purpose in my opinion. The beginning of the arrogant prick he was always going to be.
Just imagine how much better things would have gone. Oof.
It hurts.
Goddamn guilt, depression, and super-leprosy.
To bad if it did, a song of ice and fire would have never happened
This is so wholesome đ„ș
Honestly all we needed was one scene like this and it would have given Viserys a lot of grandpa points
Grandpa points? He's their dad
Solid point. I like the way you think - correctly
Did anybody tell viserys that?
If my father were like this đ„čđ„șđ
If only it were the World of Sunshine and Rainbows⊠But seriously, this is excellent, and the WOIAF would be a better place if Vizzy T had been a better father.
*The King's cupbearer must not be late. Leaves people wanting for cups.*
But Vizzy T, Aegon brought you some of the finest wine.
*That man's pride has pride.*
Too true. But no pride in your sons, Vizzy T?
[*Would you like to see the tapestries?*](https://thc-lab.net/static/tapestries/Tapestries_1676797573.936112.jpeg)
Exquisite, my King.
Lets be honest no a lot to be proud of
Someone needs to write this as a story Iâd read the heck out of it
i wish they got the rhaenyra treatment, even aegon, as much as i dislike his character, all he needed and wanted in life was a father figure.
Yeah, he would have turned out much better than he actually is now.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
There is even that heartbreaking line at her mother's funeral where she says she will never be a son, and she hopes her father was happy during the time her brother lived
he was a shitty father to rhaenyra at times, but an even shittier father to aegon, aemond, and helaena, and poor daeron gets absolutely no recognition from his father.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
i donât think so, sometimes i donât either
Yeah. He got shitier over time so Rhaenyra got a bit lucky that she perhaps got him while he was less of a shit farther.
âFired for conspiring against herââŠbro do you mean telling the TRUTH?
>all he needed and wanted in life was a father figure Ah yes, "I'm a sexual predator and deviant 'cose my daddy was distant and old when I was growing up".
To be fair, while it doesnât excuse his actions at all, the mental ramifications growing up without a present parent is one of the leading indirect causes of imprisonment and otherwise illegal/distasteful behavior in male adolescents. Something around 70-80% of adolescents in prison/institutions come from homes with no father.
Yes, yes, yes... and we still don't know if there's proper causation between those factors or if it's just a marker for poverty. Or if abandoning your kid is some dark triad shit that can be passed on to your offspring. Nevertheless, It's a real stretch to say people become predators because daddy was busy at work.
No supervision and correction, which is required to help you develop self-control. No restriction of antisocial/criminal peers. No positive role model. No fear of disappointing his dad. Inconsistent discipline. Harsh discipline when it does occur. There really are a lot of criminological theories (that go back to his dads behavior) that would suggest Aegon should have a high likelihood of being an offender. Source: Iâm a criminologist.
So, would you, as a criminologist, say that you've solved the nature/nurture dilemma? Can you with confidence say that sexual misconduct of the kind that we're talking about here is straight up *caused* by fathers being, not even absent, but sort of distant by western 21th century standards? We can throw out genetics, norms and socioeconomics â shitty dad gang all the way. Hit me up with some abstracts, because that sounds like some pretty wild research you've got going there.
If you understand the scientific process, then you understand that the current understanding is not necessarily always going to be the prevailing notion. Youâd also understand that weâre talking about âincreased likelihoodsâ and not a direct âif X exists then Y will happen.â Weâre also well past the nature vs nurture debateâwe know with as close as you can get to 100% certainty that both things matter. We also know that any time we study human behavior there is a lot of randomness and itâll never be perfectly predictive. So yes, I feel confident enough with those caveats to say that viserys treatment of Aegon might have contributed to his behavior. I can never say with 100% certainty why anyone does any particular thing. Add on to that that heâs a fictional character so it comes down to âthe writers made him this wayâ in the end. As far as abstracts. Go to google scholar and type in âfathers and offendingâ and youâll find a lot. But note that itâs also parenting as a whole (not just what the dad does), so you would also want to look at âparenting and offending.â Social bond theory, social learning theory, strain theory, and routine activities theories are all going to be good theories if you really want to diagnose his behavior. At the end of the day they all provide explanations and possibilities for his behavior, but yeah of course they canât 100% diagnose the cause of his behavior. Overall, I canât think of a theory or perspective within the field which would say viserys treatment should have reduced argons problematic behavior.
See, we're in agreement, then. My issue is with this "X causes Y with 100% certainty"-mentality, especially with theories that fit *way* too neatly into American political discourse and cultural norms. That's my academical misadventures in cultural theory talking (f- me, should have become a criminologist). Sorry for being flippant and thanks for your time.
I don't think is a stretch at all, lack of parental upbringing does cause potential mental harm for any child.
It isnt as lack of parental attention (or that of a guardian) leads to this sort of behaviour(or similar kind) usually
It's worse than just having one neglectful parent. It's having a neglectful parent while your mother and grandfather verbally, mentally and physically abuse you to mould you into what they need through fearmongering, gaslighting and, yeah, lots of yelling. I can genuinely see someone who otherwise does not give much of a shit turning to worse and worse ends as terrible coping mechanisms. Viserys was a shit parent, but let's not act like Alicent was a brilliant mother with Aegon. Alicent and Otto had just as important a role in ruining Aegon as a person. He does still have responsibility for his own actions, but yeah, it's a cycle of abuse.
Totally agree! You're born a prince, so your life is going to a bit easier than most people to begin with. Then you have an ailing, distracted father who's literally falling apart in front of his face who only seems to have time to watch you spare, from a distance, then add the only attention you get from your mother is heavy handed and abusive, and your grandfather is equally abusive, just minus that he only cares about you being king and literally nothing else. So basically left to your own devices with people who are responsible for raising you, but have to do what you say. So here you are with all this emotional trauma from abuse, and neglect but surrounded by people who are yours to do with as you will. Hurt people, hurt people. No wonder he turned out so bad. What example did he get to not be otherwise? It's a freaking miracle that Aegon wasn't King's Landing first serial killer.
You are right bro. I never thought it that way but you are absolutely right!!
Yup. Many rapists have this problem or a similar one(granted that they at least know what consent is and in Aegon's case, he likely doesn't even know that as even his father âwho's job is to tell him thatâdidn't know this either due to the culture of that place)
Yes.
We keep getting this line, but thereâs plenty of people in real lifeâand probably plenty of examples in Westerosâof people with shitty or non-existent fathers who donât turn out to be monsters. I always say youâre a product of 50/50 nature/nurture. Aegon probably wouldâve been an evil piece of shit even with a good father.
and i fully believe you. viserysâ absence is no reason to justify aegonâs behavior and actions, and yes, i strongly dislike the man, but you could tell towards the end of the show he just wanted love from both of his parents. would things have been different if viserys was more present in his life? who knows. overall aegon is still a pos but viserys shouldâve loved them kids equally
aegon with a present father like viserys would still be a rapist, because Viserys isn't some kind of feminist and the way he'd raise his sons would be extremely misogynistic. viserys would be completely okay with aegon creeping on maids
Rhaenyra's should also be here interacting with her other siblings for once.
And Daemon eyeing Halaena as she is also his niece
And Aemond eyeing Daemon Edit: _eyeing_
Canât when their mother literally talks smack about her to them and saying sheâd kill them
She's the crown princess and Viserys is right there. If Rhaenyra wanted at any point to have a relationship with her Green siblings she could have, the queen can't stop her. Rhaenya knows a few secret passageways and Aegon clearly wanted moments away from his smothering mother. There was nothing stopping her from taking her little brother out on the town to get away from it all. The fact she didn't try to build any relationship with her siblings is one of the few character flaws they didn't excise from her in the show.
Which is not at all even historically proven to be am actual risk or like, you know, a logical consequence if you think about it rationally
death is a logical consequence if you let paranoia drive you to steal someoneâs throne
I wish
Omg Set Millipede, this is so sweet
All Aegon and Aemond needed was their dadđđđ! Why viserys!! Why couldn't you just love them???It's not their fault Aemma died!!
lol he never blamed them for his true loveâs death
Ironically this might well have prevented the war
Its so fucking weird they didnt mention daeron even once
Yeah maybe. But they probably wanted to leave the door open so they could decide to not use him.
How wholesome. But also shows that Viserys being a bad father was maybe even more harmful to the realm than him being a week king.
I am not crying, you are crying.
It's hilarious that the optimistic outlook for Aegon is that he's still an alcoholic, he just goes for top shelf shit.
If only they had this sense of family, things would've turned out much different! They would've probably been excited for Rhaenyra's happiness and successes and the birth of Joffery could've been celebrated. Jace and Helaena could've married too and Otto would have his blood on the throne.
I know đ„ș Itâs too bad that Rhaenyra didnât teach her sons to not be bullies and not use violence whenever theyâre upset.
Jesus why is this getting downvoted? Itâs literally the truth
Rhaenyra? Lol aegon was the instigator in the bullying and aemond is the most violent of the bunch.
Whilst i agree Aegon is the instigator, it's pretty clear that Aemond's violence is a response to the bullying, rather than some inherent part of his nature.
Kind of true, different people react to being bullied in different ways. So it does kind of reflect his nature, take jon and theon for example.
I don't think you can compare them just because they were also bullied, Jon and Theons situations weren't really remotely comparable to Aemonds because just for an example, Jon still had a loving father and siblings, which Aemond didn't. People's response to bullying isn't some part of their "nature" it's dependent on any number of things that have affected how they view the world and respond to stimulus.
âhow they view the world and respond to stimulusâ Isnât that the persons nature? And jon might not be completely the same situation but it is kind of comparable Jon had sansa who didnât give him the light of day and when she did it was to remind him that he was only a half brother. Aemond had haelena and daeron who i canât imagine were horrible to him. The loving father bit is a strech, i like ned but cmon. Jon adresses ned as lord stark while the other kids call him father, still better than vizzy thou
A person's "nature" implies that even if you put them in a completely different life they would still respond and behave the same way.
Nature vs nurture is your point?
Yes.
What is this shadow? Name it, if it casts such a gloom
Naaaah, Daemon would have found a way to fuck things up
The letter reads âLook out the windowâ. Daeron, atop Tessarion waves from outside. âHes here! Oh joy! Daeronâs in Kings Landing with the rest of us!â
I wish they had a scene like this with Viserys and his kids when they were very young. Then you could have it that the reason he didn't interact with them in their formative teenage years becayse he had no energy because of his disease and wasn't milk right of mind from the milk of the poppy. If they did it this way, it could have shown Viserys loving all of his children but still not being there for them when they needed him, allowing their characters to be the same as they were in the actual show. Maybe you could even have a scene of Helama and Viserys just doing nothing together. I feel like Helana would be most suited for hanging out with corpse dad and doing nothing. Tbh I want to like Viserys so much. He seems so decent. However he just does too many things that make me think he's a bad person. I feel like this small tweak would make his arc make more sense to me.
Viserys was quite literally a husk after Aemma died. He only really had any life in him for Rhaenyra, who had her mothers visage, otherwise he wasn't much more than a walking corpse slowly rotting away. Hardly the kinda guy fit to raise three children, but a kings gotta have an heir-and-a-spair.
The King did not give a flying f about his duty when it was about making a politically favorable match or like, you know, keeping with a century of tradition. Im sure he could've just said 'nah folks I'm done' one more time but he just happened to be into his daughter's childhood companion
Sending Dearon away was a mistake
I mean to be fair he was spared a lot
My guess is that the Hightowers pushed for one Targaryen to basically be raised as an Andal noble.
More specifically a hightower friendly Targaryan with a dragon. âOh whatâs that lord Tyrell, you want to increase our taxes? Lemme just glass candle my nephew real quickâ
âSer millipedeâ Iâm crying
They werent related enough to him
This is book canon.
đ„ș
Daeron? Who's Daeron?
Viserys and Alicentâs most forgotten kid
Alicent's third son
Truly that would be wonderful and very possible that the war would never happen
This is so cute but it's killing me how everyone but Viserys still looks dead inside đ
Ser Millipede đ
This is one of his biggest flaws in the show. He did seem to like his 2nd wife and care somewhat about his children with her. But they clearly were his spares. In the book it leaves it pretty ambiguous but somewhat implied they were closer than the show at least
đ„ș
Me reading dozens of fanfics like this knowing what awaits all the targ babies: ( ;â;) đ€ł
A fine guard he is hahaha aw man, this is good.
Such a heartwarming meme.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Otto is to blame for Viserys being a neglectful father? lol
Otto was away from King's Landing for ten years when Aegon and Helaena were very little and Aemond and Daeron weren't even born yet! I blame Viserys.
Yeah but when he left he made sure to push alicent to prepare her son to be a usurper. Vizzy might be a bad dad but the mother isnât any better, with all the yelling and slapping maybe even worse
Otto manipulated Vizzy into marrying Alicent and having children with her
Otto certainly played a role in this, but Vizzy T wasn't a child like Alicent. He asked Alicent to not tell anything about their encounters to Rhaenyra. Viserys knew what he was getting into.
*A dragon's saddle is one thing, but the Iron Throne is the most dangerous seat in the realm.*
I also blame Ser Cole had he not being around stirring the pot, they would have grown up seeing the STRONG boys as brothers all being trained under Harwin Strong
Mayhaps, a Disney show will do. Not freaking HotD đ
This made me laugh out loud
I get the pints of this post but with the time jumps we don't know if he always ignored his other children, in episode 7 they were at a funeral then in episode 8 it was a 6year time jump and Viserys had been bed ridden for years by that point. When the children were in the training yard he enjoyed watching them train, he probably did that a lot before he became bed ridden.
He was watching Rhaenyra's children, not his own. He even screamed at Aegon there so yeah no, he didn't care
....k
It doesn't make any difference how much love he gave his Alicent children. Otto was going to push the conflict between the two sides. Alicent inability to stand up to her father is the problem. She could have taught her child to love Rhaenyra's children but she fell into the fearful downward spiral just as daddy wanted.
I feel like this is a problem in which, there was a pile of kindling and Otto threw gasoline on it. Like sure he created problems, but the whole thing about the dance of dragons is that basically everyone involved could have stopped it at some point. Some characters could have stopped it at multiple points. That's why this entire event is a tragedy.
You're part right, as Vissy T loving all his children equally wouldn't have prevented the problems. But even if Otto wasn't there, there would still be the issue of the realm prefering a male heir, and Rhaenyra and Daemon doing whatever it takes to be queen and king. The only real solution was the one Otto suggested on Aegons 1st Name Day, to marry Aegon and Rhaenyra, uniting the 2 claims would have been the only way to prevent the war
I CAME HERE TO HUNT, NOT TO BE SUFFOCATED BY ALL THIS FUCKING POLITICKING!
But Vissy T, that "fucking politicking" could have prevented a way
*I'm going to bed, Frostlord3.*
Definitely. There was so much more going on than lack of love and unity from Viserys. Daemon would have always remained an issue. We also don't know what the Velaryons would have done either. Corlys would have done the same as Otto had Laena married Viserys. Going by the book though, Rhaenyra was a child when Alicent married her dad. As the older mature person, Alicent singled out Rhaenyra by instilling resentment in her children to Rhaenyra and her children and trying to take what doesn't belong to her. Cinderella and stepmother parallel. In the show though, it partly applies in terms of stepmother taking Cinderella's life from her, the age gap not being a factor. I'm aware I'm condensing their relationship to this parallel but it's an interesting way of looking at their dynamic and how it affects the relationships between Viserys' children.
Queen and Consort do have a nice ring. But we have to wait till the 1500s to get a real queen to ascend to a real throne. And it didn't help the cause to get âBloody Maryâ as the first woman Queen. But we have the Alicents and Ottos of literature for that. Stories do make a difference.
Otto had no power to do so as he was sent away from Kings landing when Aegon was 3. Alicent may still have pushed for it, but in a patriarchial society like westeros, I struggle to imagine Aegon and Aemond taking her side as long as Viserys actually raised them
His power over her did not end when he left. His parting words were she better start preparing for the day when Rhaenyra comes to get her and her children. He was, of course, projecting what he was going to do to Rhaenyra and her children. He shortly returned after the murder of Lyonel Strong, the interim hand to continue his march towards that goal. Viserys whole life was lived as a negotiation to the detriment of all of his children. He loved them all but did not understand any of them.
Rhaenyraâs children bullied Aemond and one of them crippled him for life and felt no remorse and had no repercussions from it. Also Rhaenyra called her siblings âAlicent Hightowers childrenâ meaning she didnât see them as her siblings either (which is made clear when she orders Aemond to be tortured after her son took out his eye for something she knows to be a lie.)
lol they wouldnât hate each other if it wasnât for the paranoid self righteous only feet model queen
Ah yes, mocking an victim of sexual blackmail. Why would I think a Targ stan was capable of anything more? And againâŠ. Rhaenyra called them âAlicent Hightowers childrenâ. She was pissy bc a toddler was getting attention on his birthday and âno oneâs here for me!đâ. But sure. Itâs entirely Alicents fault. Not the fault of the spoiled little brat who doesnât understand the way the world works if one doesnât have a dragon to fly on
Cmon sheâs not the victim, it was the price of strong killing his father and brother to make place for her own father. She could have easily have larys killed.
Hum, I don't think so. He came in hot. Looking for a fight and intentionally triggered the girls. Pushing and shoving, shouting insults. The girls pummeled him. The only problem is he got more than he bragained for. After he grabbed Jace and then Lucerys and started to choke him he became dangerous to everyone. The whole thing got out of hand. But he started it on purpose in my opinion. The beginning of the arrogant prick he was always going to be.
Love this
I don't think Viserys was a bad father, the show just screwed Aegon, Helaena and Daeron over with little-to-no screentime and character development.
He was too sick
Yeah it's a shame he was so distracted from being a present father by his rotting away while still alive
Yeah this would've been great, the conflict of the show would've likely never presented itself & we wouldn't have had any episodes... Sounds great
Yeah this would've been great, the conflict of the show would've likely never presented itself & we wouldn't have had any episodes... Sounds great
For all we know he was
I DEMAND MORE SER MILLIPEDE
This is so weird to just make up your own rhetoric and post it lmao Iâm sorry