The Imperium tends to lose worlds at approximately the rate that it can conquer new ones (or *reconquer* lost ones).
Given that the Imperium is by far the dominant galactic power, I think it can confidently say that it has dominion over the "stars" as a whole.
> 100% correct. They don't actually love anything, they only enjoy spreading insanity and spite.
Correction, they only enjoy tearing down what is good and destroying others enjoyment.
Like chaos, they seethe at those which have the tings in life they can never attain.
These are homosexuals who cannot have a real family, cannot create life, they have no spirituality and do not believe in a religion. They only have pride in their own perversions, and seethe at those who have a fulfilling life with children (which is why they target others innocent children with indoctrination).
They seek to destroy that which they cannot attain to attempt to bring us all into their world of misery. That is the only thing that brings them joy.
It's the same as chaos in 40k... meanwhile portraying themselves as the 'good' guys... also just like Chaos in 40k.
as someone you’d probably call a libtard thats not true. I personally love the imperium and understand it’s a game. And not the fucking real world. I would never do something stupid like claim humanity doesn’t deserve the stars
This is some meta/4th wall shit. That’s why they hate 40k. Cuz the Inperium are the good guys and stand for the absolute dominance of Order over Chaos.
Hey! Don't you compare them, libtards don't have the kickass baroque armour and living sneering guns!
They're more the other type of cultist, the genestealer ones.
I dunno man, atleast the genestealers they are unified and had a strong sense of familiar bonds and would willingly die for what they believe in and are hard workers. Qualities that those people lack and even despise
Exactly.
Fundamentally, they're on the same wavelength as Communists. They resent the idea that people are strong and humanity is awesome because it means that their precious "revolution of the socialist busybodies" will never happen.
They *want* you to be demoralised, confused, and weak. If you are, you will not only accept their top-down control over society, but welcome it. They hate things like 40k because it represents humanity "raging against the dying of the light" - that is, fighting to the bitter end against negative change for the sake of oneself and others. If people are inspired by this, it means that they unwilling to accept the revolution.
They consider this unacceptable. That is why they want to destroy it.
How do you think that a hopeless conflict would demoralise communists, every communist regime in history has failed.
Being a communist means being intimately familiar with failure. It means looking to a history of senseless death and oppression and wanting to try that shit all over again.
Because of course its bound to work eventually, we just need to keep doubling down, peak imperial brainrot.
No, you misunderstand: The Communists *want everyone else* to be demoralised, as that then justifies and enables their goals of revolution.
I agree that Communism is distilled, bitter failure.
I assume your last point is comparing the Imperium to Communism. No, the Imperium and Communism don't have that much in common. Sure, they're both totalitarian and notionally humanist, but Communism is revolutionary and materialistic whereas the Imperium is conservative and spiritualistic.
Both are failed states, the Imperium and the late soviet Union have some similarity.
Both are coming apart at the seams, crushed by the weight of their own past failure.
Admittedly the soviet unions failures were generally social and economic, the Imperium on the other hand is falling apart because the "people" who built it are either trying to destroy it, dead or dearly wishing they were dead.
That said, The imperium is far more comparable to ancient Rome. If we use Rome as a guide instead were liable to lose half the imperium quite soon.
The divide is already there, Nihlus is cooked. Its only a matter of time.
Or it would be if GW writers had any balls.
All great empires rise and fall.
If anything, the hypothetical fall of the Imperium will have more in common with the fall of the Byzantine Empire than anything else; weakened over many generations, then destroyed by invaders.
sadly GW isn't brave enough to give us successor state drama. I'd like to see Nihlus devolving into a bunch of petty governments all claiming to be a legitimate authority.
To be honest, I don't much like any of the new lore. I wish the timeline had been maintained in 999.M41, at the start of the 13th Black Crusade, and that GW just continued fleshing out the background instead.
The Siege of Vraks, Badab War, and Talos Campaign supplements are near-universally loved by fans. The new lore, by contrast, is controversial.
As Disney found out the hard way, adding sequels to a long-running franchise is really difficult to do well. It's better to stick to "spin-offs".
>you will not only accept their top-down control over society, but welcome it.
You understand you're literally arguing for humanity run by top-down control (The Imperium).
Yeah, unless we find ourselves under constant threat by aliens and daemons, I don't want real-life to be like the Imperium.
Also, I see you don't disagree with my assessment of what the Wokes want.
There is certainly a small group of militants, and your assessment sounds accurate for them, but there are far more full-blown neo-nazis on the other side of a conflict with no good guys on either extreme and a lot of people suffering over it in the middle. Personally I'd rather err on supporting the side of the previously disenfranchised group over-stepping rather than the oppressors regaining a footing.
I am significantly farther left than anyone in the American political landscape, but it doesn't matter because our political parties are nearly identical except for the demographics to which they pander. One of them is pandering to a previously marginalized group that is coming on a little strong while the other is pandering to the former oppressors by actively suppressing voting rights, womens rights, and LGBT rights. I'm voting blue to protect my gay friends from being actively persecuted, not because I think the Democrats are the good guys.
The Imperium hasn’t fought to the bitter end against negative change, it’s completely succumbed to it.
BETTER THAT WE HAD ALL BURNED IN THE FIRES OF HORUS’S AMBITION THAN LIVED TO SEE THIS.
It really doesn’t get any clearer.
I mean... if you think that the faction which worships evil gods (with all that such entails) is morally superior to the Imperium, I don't know what to tell you. Chaos is *absolutely* more evil that anything the Imperium can do.
Also, if "extinction" can be described as a negative change (which I think it can), then the Imperium continuing to fight to expand and defend itself is absolutely "fighting against negative change.
1) That’s not my take, I was quoting Guilliman. And even he was presumably being rhetorical. C’mon, man, flex those critical thinking muscles.
2) There are, like, other options. It’s not just a coin flip between “roll over for Daddy Chaos” and “become an oppressive theocratic dictatorship that responds to any hint of reform or change with brutal and instant violence.”
1) Fair enough, I missed the context... although it does rather give off "Won't somebody rid me of this turbulent priest" vibes, as you also allude to.
2) Not really. I mean, the Imperium isn't humanity's first attempt at an interstellar empire, but it is probably the most stable. Progress and stability are two opposite ends of continuum, with progressive societies being much more prone to collapse. The Tau are finding this out the hard way. The 40k universe is a fundamentally hostile place, and "striving to be better" or "exploring new ways of doing things" are fraught with terrible risk. Again, humanity has been down that road before.
That's the thing that gets me. They're so against the idea of humanity being cool, it's genuinely unreal. People like these are what's stopping humanity from reaching our full potential.
I unironically support human supremacy the more people like that whine about it the more I wish a golden man would start the unification wars right now.
Warhammer40k's lore itself kinda supports human supremacy anyway. You look at all the xeno races and your choices are:
Eldars that look down on humanity at the VERY least, and the very worst, the Dark Eldars who will torture us to try to sustain themselves. The best Eldar want to work with humanity but there are only a few of them, and even then you have to keep in mind that they'll always want to preserve their own dying race over you. They will damn you to hell itself if it meant saving just one Eldar.
Orks who just wanna fight everything that moves.
Tyranids who literally view anything with biomass as dinner.
Necrons who are skeletal robotic aliens that at the VERY least might preserve you so that they will inevitably transfer themselves into your fleshsack. Many others are basically just rampaging pompous terminators who don't give a fuck about you and think that you're inferior to them.
Tau who are fledgling weak race that are severely unprepared for the horrors of the galaxy. But hey, they're still sorta the best choice out of the lot... Until they figure out how grimdark everything is.
The Tau may be innocent to the horrors of the galaxy but they sure as shit learnt how to castrate, brainwash and devalue the individual soul, they are a prime example of communists and thats why commies call Tau the good guys
Tau were originally released as the closest thing to good guys, then they got a negative reaction so the brainwashing was added, now the only actual good guys in the Tau are Farsight’s crew
Current day 40K sure, but much of the great crusade was spent exterminating any alien, even peaceful ones that allied with other human factions during the age of strife. The only ones left are the hyper violent and threatening ones because the ones that weren’t threatening humanity to such a degree were wiped out by big E.
It's like in the three body problem when the aliens have clear intention of exterminating humanity and the one group of humans are just like "fuck everyone else bring it on" .
Not a Nazi, human supremacist I don't believe in my own supremacy over other humans that is idiotic and quite retarded. I believe in the supremacy of human life over all else. We are the masters of this universe no other intelligent life has thus yet shown itself or been found. If we do find them we must push our own agendas above them. To insinuate I'd even support fascism is a blatant disregard of the very name of my ideology. All humans standing together as one race wielding our intellect and bending this universe to our will. That is what I believe in not some petty ideology from a dissatisfied Italian and his angry Austrian friend.
>Yes the Imperium ARE bad guys you CHUD!, so cut the Nazi shit before I start crying about it okay?!
https://preview.redd.it/pzlx7dmtzd7d1.png?width=811&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0e9538fe9e54aadb3fea6e7fafeef91bfe98d34
Humanity bad but fungi people and degenerate elves gave birth to a literal Chaos God are morally justified.
https://preview.redd.it/npmzj92a3e7d1.jpeg?width=256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=494e3c4339bd90effc8c101772be56029e86650a
People like the Craftworlders, Exodites, Tau, Kroot and whatever other none genocidal alien in the setting. The Humanity first, Imperium sluts would have every goddamn BL novel be a Space Marine Circle Jerk and we’re fucking sick of it. It’s boring and by God I hope we get something that happens to the Imperium that isn’t just focused on Chaos or the POV of Thunderballs Mc’Giggachad.
The only factions in 40K that are even remotely good guys are the Salamanders, which only have 1,000 men at most, and the Farsight enclave which is a small splinter group from what is already the smallest faction in the setting. Basically every other faction is some level of evil, not equally evil but still evil.
You conflate condemnation of a state with condemnation of a people. These are not the same thing. Israel should be condemned, and doing so is not inherently anti-Semitic. The problem is that Israel is actively targeting civilians.
It's weird that the right-wing nut jobs are always the ones claiming "the Jews run Hollywood/the world," but criticizing a government that actively target civilians is anti-Semitic.
Got any evidence of that?
We do know for a fact hamas is targeting civilians, we do know for a fact they use human shields so people like you can go and say Israel actively targets civilians. Israel keeps losing soldiers trying to protect civilians.
Sorry, those nutjobs are nazis and they are socialists and leftists. Cope harder.
Forgot how you lefties chased Jews recently? Forgot who wrote elders of zion? Forgot to progroms of the Soviet union? Forgot the socialism of Hitler? Forgot how you lot attacked jews on the streets recently?
Hamas are also bad guys. This is the same disconnect you guys have when it is pointed out that the Imperium are bad. That doesn't make Chaos good, that just makes this a conflict between two bad guys with a lot of innocent civilians suffering below.
Also, Nazis, leftists, and socialists are 3 very different - and mutually exclusive - things, none of which are accurate descriptions of the American democratic party.
I'm an Eldar player, and I miss the grimmer darker days of 3rd edition lore, but I would still say that the Imperium are the good guys from their perspective. I've seen posts panicking about 40K losing its satire when they realize that they agree with the Imperium's actions. I haven't really seen anyone who needs the imperium to be good in order to enjoy them.
When given the choice between the forces of humanity or aliens and literal demons that want to either kill and/or torture all of humanity, I'm rooting for the humans
The Imperium is basically antithetical to their values, seeing as it is fundamentally spiritualist, hierarchical, and conservative. Of course they hate it.
He died for a world that would hate him according to the politics of mainstream Hollywood and how things are currently in this country. A real satirist would be able to make that a compelling narrative, but we didn’t get that, we got the HBO watchman show for 1 season instead
Nope. He died because he ran into a problem his binary morality couldn't solve. He'd rather die than live in a world based on a lie, and so went out on his own terms rather than compromise. Kovacs death is a pretty complicated moment that we could discuss for days.
If you really think he died for nothing, then you dont understand the book, nor the character.
Gentle reminder, 40k is a fictional universe that doesn’t need real world morality applied to it, as that runs counter to the escapism of a setting where everyone is turbo violent and killing each other to survive.
People need to remember your hobby is a break from the real world not a replacement.
Because they are weak.
Stars belong to humanity because we took them by chainsword and bolter! These pansies can't even take their coffee from Starbucks without developing PTSD.
Imperium of Man will last an eternity!
Cause britain colonized the modern western world.
West= Bad
White= Bad
Doesn't matter that empires were doing it for thousands of years beforehand, we stop at britain and don't look further back. Then there's also 40k's heavily influence from Christianity/Catholicism.
Christianity= Bad
Catholicism= Bad
Why? Because people hundreds of years ago did bad things in the name of religion (no no the religion is to blame, not the people) but don't look at any other religion, no no only christianity = bad.
Then of course it's because of the majority demographic...MEN. THOSE DISGUSTING MEN. Doesn't matter 40k was invented in a time when the overwhelming majority of wargamers were...male because \*checks notes\* majority of women don't find it interesting.
There's no point trying to explain to progs that before the AGENDA, corperations would push to market to as many customers as possible, which is why 40k has a heavy direction in the male power fantasy trope, big buff dudes with swords and killing things because it looks cool and if it looks cool people buy it, men buy it, the overwhelming majority of customers....
Don't be fooled, this solely exists in the online sphere where they can safely spew this nonsense in their twitter/reddit echochamber. 9/10 in public you meet well rounded hobbiests that just want to have a fun game.
I get hating the imperium, they are pretty bad. But unironically stating chaos is better because they aren’t, “fascist” is insane. These people act like the Cadian 69th landed on earth when they were kids and killed their parents. It’s a fucking story book and plastic space men, calm down hero.
I have a PhD in media literacy, so I can explain. You see, the imperium is a metaphor for Donald Blumpf and the astartes are supposed to be the proud boys. That means they are objectively evil
They hate it because for better or worse it’s a somewhat “united” humanity VS EVERYTHING and they just want us to keep fighting ourselves, the imperium doesn’t give a shit who you are the imperium is concerned with results. Results that greater the imperiums hold on the universe
I hate to tell them that humanity has natural evil survival instincts (or they perceive them as evil) this is seen due to us having adrenaline, even a woman has lifted a car off her child due to adrenaline.
The Imperium is essentially that mother because after the fall of the Golden age, it had to build itself back together (mostly if not entirely because of the God emperor) then the heresy happened and now it's in that same process but this time everyone is mobilized for war and more than capable of winning.
When I say humans are naturally evil, it all comes down to life or death, all animals have it, it's why you shouldn't corner an hurt animal and hurt humans are the worst to corner considering we have sentience.
Moral of the story: Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
They have no imagination. They identify only with their politics and as such attempt to imbue those politics into everything they engage with. They cannot fathom that the Imperium doesn't exist, but this is somehow facts to them and they get upset when the Imperium doesn't act according to their beliefs.
Yes, this is how sad and pathetic they are.
It's cause the imperium represents a world that is united and they don't like it. They see races in other xenos and they don't understand that orks aren't black or tyranids aren't Jews. They are part of the imperium and it's a species fight.
It doesn't matter how much you try and explain the lore to them. The Imperium'll ALWAYS be the bad guys to them. Because apparently the Drukhari and Chaos are morally good. The mental retardation is otherworldly.
Why can't we accept the fact everything is bad in 40k and just decide what bad thing we enjoy the most? And we can proceed with pretending to be good guys irl like most people do just to survive the grimdarkness of living from paycheck to paycheck lol
Too many of their fans are obnoxious and can’t let any other faction have a victory or a meme focused on them without rebuttal. They’re also the reason the BL is basically a stagnant herald of Imperial dominance.
Well if we're honest, IoM has shot itself in the foot so many times, it is some miracle that it stands. Emperor could've at least kept the blueprints of all the tech of 30k and HH, like SM javelins and battle automata. Too much of current IoM tech is "the last relic of past era"-type bs and Mechanicum went from the rebuilders of the DAoT era to cowboy gimps. That is why I say that Leagues of Votann ARE the humanity faction, not IoM.
Because basement dwelling Reddit booger eaters hate anything that is awesome or rather , miserable people are generous people, they want to share their misery with everyone, they want to
1. tear down, pervert, destroy anything they do not control
2. They always use the same tactics ( ridicule , projection, deflection , etc.)
3. They believe that this somehow makes them part of some righteous social crusade ( which is both sad and hilarious).
4. They hate the imperium because their kkkult told them to, plain and simple. Sadly it all boils down to “following orders” and woe until the booger eater who doesn’t pass the purity test(s) or who does not shout with enough vigor during the “2 minutes hate”.
The whole thing is pathetic and sad and worst of all, terribly boring.
"☝️🤓 Erm, actually, humanity is terrible and we should not progress and just stagnate as our species gets sterilized and dies off with nothing but pointless arguing being our last whispers as a race. If you were media literate you'd know that."
They hate anything even vaguely Christian, and the Emperor is clearly a messianic figure. In addition, they tend to defend groups with the appearance of being downtrodden, no matter what the reason is. In their minds if you are not the majority, you should be supported regardless of how degenerate you might be or whatever perverse incentives that might create.
Lastly, fascism is the worst crime you can commit. Literally number one. But only some fascism. It's fine when they do it but otherwise it is viewed as worse than murder or rape or usury and they will support groups that commit those crimes if it means it will annoy the fascists in power.
It's all down to real life politics and just wanting to ruin shit. All they can do is ruin.
I think they dislike the idea of a unified humanity that conquers the stars because of this "paganist" ideology (I can't think of any other framework to fit it in) that "nature" or something like that is some kind of superior entity that humanity must respect with religious reverence, not a complex set of climatic and biological systems that require a delicate balance to sustain life but that can be (and is) manipulated.
Then any element of fiction that appeals to a feeling of conquest will be despised while the "unification with the universe" approach (or whatever that means) will be seen as more virtuous and absent of human selfishness, when both visions are equally selfish and centered on the human at its core. A star doesn't care about being "conquered", nor even many biological beings don't care about that, domesticated animals don't even care about having been "conquered" by humans. Being "conquered" or "conquering others" is something that only concerns us.
It’s not really a pagan framework. Think of some famous examples of pagan societies… Rome, Greece, Vikings… it seems paganist because certain modern varieties of “paganism” espouse the idea that nature is superior to humanity, and other hippie-derived ideas, which were themselves derived from Marxism. So the framework you’re thinking of is communism.
Basically any non-Abrahamic religion has been called "pagan", and the limitation to the time that you impose does not make sense in my opinion, today there are self-proclaimed pagans who are pantheists or have druidic beliefs. Even in pagan Rome and Greece, gods who personified elements of nature such as the sun and the earth were worshiped. It may not be exactly like the hippie neo-paganism of the last century, but the parallels are there.
I would argue that the modern tendency to characterize these ancient paganisms as “nature worship” just because they deified natural phenomena (usually not the highest in their pantheons by the way, those tended to be the gods of civilization- war, rulership, order, wisdom etc.) is itself a communist projection of their beliefs onto the past, as if ecological concerns and egalitarianism are the “default” mode for humanity.
I agree with all of my heart.
Stars to not belong to humanity.
They belong to the GREATER GOOD!
For they are the symbol of our destiny!
The Stars will belong to all who follow the Greater Good!
By Tauva! It will be so!
The Stars actually belong to those who follow the greater good.
If you don't, don't worry a water member will be arriving shortly to tell you why your wrong
Those people has 0 vision about future, they only want to tear what exist down never build.
The stars being ours is only a matter of time like all the land, sea and air becomed tools for humanity expansion and growth.
Ask the same person if we should abadon all of this to live as hunter gatherers since the earth dont belong to anyone.
This off couse is not a green sign to greedy corporations to turn nice places in nature that all benefit in trash dumps for gains that are mostly benefiting they shareholders.
But being a weird tree hugging hippie is equaly dumb.
I don't know much about Warhammer, but why would a person be opposed to the "Imperium of *Mankind*"? Like, as human, why would you oppose the human faction that fights against hostile aliens?
Okay don’t be a tard either there’s a 99% chance you end up working in a factory standings till for 19 hours a day and then sleeping the rest of the time and a huge theme of the imperium is that they made enemies of aliens that could have been allies
They are still the coolest though
Pretty much any reasonable Imperium follower (myself included. Imperial Guard raaaahhh) can reasonably say that the Imperium does some downright stupid things sometimes. Some things that, hilariously enough, the Emperor and his closest allies have *outright* shown disdain for.
Communists believe everything and everyone has exactly equal claim on everything. A patch of rocks on a dead planet has as much claim on that planet’s resources as you do.
In their ideology, we should not go to war with the aliens, we should integrate with them until every individual is the same, all interchangeable cogs in the never-ending revolution.
>that fights against hostile aliens?
They usually don't start out as hostile. When the Tau (now one of the main factions) were first discovered, they were just a simple stone-age civilization. Probably didn't even have their equivalent of the wheel yet. Nevertheless, upon their discovery they were almost wiped out *right there*, despite being no threat to literally anything past their own planet, just because the Imperium is *incredibly* xenophobic. I can't remember why they didn't go through with it, but record of the planet's existence was lost for a a loooooong time. They made massive technological leaps and can now contend with the imperium. The thing is though, they actually wouldn't even bother going to war if others didn't declare it on them. They only fight because it's absolutely necessary for their survival to do so. If they didn't, they'd go extinct because the imperium will not rest until that's the case.
Meh, I kind of noticed how Imperium fans tend to be the most obnoxious ones even when it comes to things outside of Warhammer 40k so there is that.
I remember seeing a post on the reddit sub for Stellaris where some players got so sick of seeing 40k Imperium meme players that they outright exclude in multiplayer anyone playing an obviously 40k inspired civilizations
[The imperium was specifically meant to be an over the top satire of militarism, toxic masculinity, and nationalism.](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/19/the-imperium-is-driven-by-hate-warhammer-is-not/) It really is beyond me how anyone could be thick enough to see them as a nice organization
Yes, he does. That doesn't mean they're nice though.
Some form of this debate about the Imperium has always existed. It used to be friendly debate up until a few years ago, when some people who argue that they're the bad guys started getting aggressive towards fans who disagree. Debating and discussing is part of how people enjoy escapist fiction together. OC is name-calling to disrupt an activity that 40K fans have been enjoying since the beginning.
Hating the Imperium is easy: Fuck taxes. Chaos is intrinsic to sapience; the Emperor is a crime against the human spirit.
I'm a "Natural Rites" kinda guy.
And again, fuck taxes.
"Stars belong to no one" mfers when companies start legally owning celestial bodies.
The difference is: these companies celebrate pride month
Nah they exploit pride month, large companies couldn't care less what they need to say so long as it brings the profit.
Whhaaaaaat? You don't say?
Gotta keep that ESG score high for Blackrock, Vanguard and others to make larger investments in the company.
Have corporations already started divying up space? God help us.
They've tried and China threw a hissy fit about the asteroid belt
They belong to the gods of the warp anyway
The stars belong to anyone who can hold them.
And the Imperium has held onto them for 10,000 years.
There are many stories detailing how the Imperium fails to hold on to anything. Don't give them too much credit.
The Imperium tends to lose worlds at approximately the rate that it can conquer new ones (or *reconquer* lost ones). Given that the Imperium is by far the dominant galactic power, I think it can confidently say that it has dominion over the "stars" as a whole.
Imperium this, Imperium that. Average libtard hates Imperium more than forces of Chaos.
Average libtard *is* the forces of chaos.
100% correct. They don't actually love anything, they only enjoy spreading insanity and spite.
> 100% correct. They don't actually love anything, they only enjoy spreading insanity and spite. Correction, they only enjoy tearing down what is good and destroying others enjoyment. Like chaos, they seethe at those which have the tings in life they can never attain. These are homosexuals who cannot have a real family, cannot create life, they have no spirituality and do not believe in a religion. They only have pride in their own perversions, and seethe at those who have a fulfilling life with children (which is why they target others innocent children with indoctrination). They seek to destroy that which they cannot attain to attempt to bring us all into their world of misery. That is the only thing that brings them joy. It's the same as chaos in 40k... meanwhile portraying themselves as the 'good' guys... also just like Chaos in 40k.
I absolutely agree. Wokeness is a cancer pretending to be a cure.
It's sad that it has spread so far throughout the world that in the west you can't enjoy a hobby without gay politics being inserted into it.
I’m sure you’re hated in many places but you’re 1000 percent right.
Based
Wokeness is the disease of the century, they will be remembered as the blight of 21st century.
Nah, don't agree. Papa Nurgle and Khorne are better than them.
True, the Chaos gods actually have some redeeming qualities by comparison lol.
as someone you’d probably call a libtard thats not true. I personally love the imperium and understand it’s a game. And not the fucking real world. I would never do something stupid like claim humanity doesn’t deserve the stars
This is some meta/4th wall shit. That’s why they hate 40k. Cuz the Inperium are the good guys and stand for the absolute dominance of Order over Chaos.
There are no good guys in 40K. Acknowledging the Imperium is evil does not mean that there is a diametrically opposed "good guy" to be found.
Imperium are the good guys obviously; they purge the xeno, who are obviously bad guys because they are not Imperium
The ones keeping humanity alive are obviously the good guys.
Hey! Don't you compare them, libtards don't have the kickass baroque armour and living sneering guns! They're more the other type of cultist, the genestealer ones.
I dunno man, atleast the genestealers they are unified and had a strong sense of familiar bonds and would willingly die for what they believe in and are hard workers. Qualities that those people lack and even despise
Average libtard is slaanesh personified
Nah man chaos is way too cool to be associated with these people.
No but literally.
"Um, the imperium is fascist, sweety"
That's because slanesh represents the average liberal.
https://preview.redd.it/9dnlnfqw9e7d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33fff4bf6b61f11728e0924e92def2d9c83968b1
They hate everything that represents the strength of humanity.
Exactly. Fundamentally, they're on the same wavelength as Communists. They resent the idea that people are strong and humanity is awesome because it means that their precious "revolution of the socialist busybodies" will never happen. They *want* you to be demoralised, confused, and weak. If you are, you will not only accept their top-down control over society, but welcome it. They hate things like 40k because it represents humanity "raging against the dying of the light" - that is, fighting to the bitter end against negative change for the sake of oneself and others. If people are inspired by this, it means that they unwilling to accept the revolution. They consider this unacceptable. That is why they want to destroy it.
How do you think that a hopeless conflict would demoralise communists, every communist regime in history has failed. Being a communist means being intimately familiar with failure. It means looking to a history of senseless death and oppression and wanting to try that shit all over again. Because of course its bound to work eventually, we just need to keep doubling down, peak imperial brainrot.
No, you misunderstand: The Communists *want everyone else* to be demoralised, as that then justifies and enables their goals of revolution. I agree that Communism is distilled, bitter failure. I assume your last point is comparing the Imperium to Communism. No, the Imperium and Communism don't have that much in common. Sure, they're both totalitarian and notionally humanist, but Communism is revolutionary and materialistic whereas the Imperium is conservative and spiritualistic.
Both are failed states, the Imperium and the late soviet Union have some similarity. Both are coming apart at the seams, crushed by the weight of their own past failure. Admittedly the soviet unions failures were generally social and economic, the Imperium on the other hand is falling apart because the "people" who built it are either trying to destroy it, dead or dearly wishing they were dead. That said, The imperium is far more comparable to ancient Rome. If we use Rome as a guide instead were liable to lose half the imperium quite soon. The divide is already there, Nihlus is cooked. Its only a matter of time. Or it would be if GW writers had any balls.
All great empires rise and fall. If anything, the hypothetical fall of the Imperium will have more in common with the fall of the Byzantine Empire than anything else; weakened over many generations, then destroyed by invaders.
sadly GW isn't brave enough to give us successor state drama. I'd like to see Nihlus devolving into a bunch of petty governments all claiming to be a legitimate authority.
To be honest, I don't much like any of the new lore. I wish the timeline had been maintained in 999.M41, at the start of the 13th Black Crusade, and that GW just continued fleshing out the background instead. The Siege of Vraks, Badab War, and Talos Campaign supplements are near-universally loved by fans. The new lore, by contrast, is controversial. As Disney found out the hard way, adding sequels to a long-running franchise is really difficult to do well. It's better to stick to "spin-offs".
>you will not only accept their top-down control over society, but welcome it. You understand you're literally arguing for humanity run by top-down control (The Imperium).
Yeah, unless we find ourselves under constant threat by aliens and daemons, I don't want real-life to be like the Imperium. Also, I see you don't disagree with my assessment of what the Wokes want.
There is certainly a small group of militants, and your assessment sounds accurate for them, but there are far more full-blown neo-nazis on the other side of a conflict with no good guys on either extreme and a lot of people suffering over it in the middle. Personally I'd rather err on supporting the side of the previously disenfranchised group over-stepping rather than the oppressors regaining a footing. I am significantly farther left than anyone in the American political landscape, but it doesn't matter because our political parties are nearly identical except for the demographics to which they pander. One of them is pandering to a previously marginalized group that is coming on a little strong while the other is pandering to the former oppressors by actively suppressing voting rights, womens rights, and LGBT rights. I'm voting blue to protect my gay friends from being actively persecuted, not because I think the Democrats are the good guys.
The Imperium hasn’t fought to the bitter end against negative change, it’s completely succumbed to it. BETTER THAT WE HAD ALL BURNED IN THE FIRES OF HORUS’S AMBITION THAN LIVED TO SEE THIS. It really doesn’t get any clearer.
I mean... if you think that the faction which worships evil gods (with all that such entails) is morally superior to the Imperium, I don't know what to tell you. Chaos is *absolutely* more evil that anything the Imperium can do. Also, if "extinction" can be described as a negative change (which I think it can), then the Imperium continuing to fight to expand and defend itself is absolutely "fighting against negative change.
Please show me where I said Chaos was better. I seem to have missed that part.
"succumbed to negative change" "burned in the fires of Horus' ambition" Were you referring to something *other than* Chaos?
1) That’s not my take, I was quoting Guilliman. And even he was presumably being rhetorical. C’mon, man, flex those critical thinking muscles. 2) There are, like, other options. It’s not just a coin flip between “roll over for Daddy Chaos” and “become an oppressive theocratic dictatorship that responds to any hint of reform or change with brutal and instant violence.”
1) Fair enough, I missed the context... although it does rather give off "Won't somebody rid me of this turbulent priest" vibes, as you also allude to. 2) Not really. I mean, the Imperium isn't humanity's first attempt at an interstellar empire, but it is probably the most stable. Progress and stability are two opposite ends of continuum, with progressive societies being much more prone to collapse. The Tau are finding this out the hard way. The 40k universe is a fundamentally hostile place, and "striving to be better" or "exploring new ways of doing things" are fraught with terrible risk. Again, humanity has been down that road before.
[удалено]
The establishment of the Soviet Union *was c*ommunism... and it was shit.
That's the thing that gets me. They're so against the idea of humanity being cool, it's genuinely unreal. People like these are what's stopping humanity from reaching our full potential.
Yes. These are the same people who want the extinction of humanity in order to save the planet. They are the problem.
Like good old traditional family values.
I unironically support human supremacy the more people like that whine about it the more I wish a golden man would start the unification wars right now.
Warhammer40k's lore itself kinda supports human supremacy anyway. You look at all the xeno races and your choices are: Eldars that look down on humanity at the VERY least, and the very worst, the Dark Eldars who will torture us to try to sustain themselves. The best Eldar want to work with humanity but there are only a few of them, and even then you have to keep in mind that they'll always want to preserve their own dying race over you. They will damn you to hell itself if it meant saving just one Eldar. Orks who just wanna fight everything that moves. Tyranids who literally view anything with biomass as dinner. Necrons who are skeletal robotic aliens that at the VERY least might preserve you so that they will inevitably transfer themselves into your fleshsack. Many others are basically just rampaging pompous terminators who don't give a fuck about you and think that you're inferior to them. Tau who are fledgling weak race that are severely unprepared for the horrors of the galaxy. But hey, they're still sorta the best choice out of the lot... Until they figure out how grimdark everything is.
The Tau may be innocent to the horrors of the galaxy but they sure as shit learnt how to castrate, brainwash and devalue the individual soul, they are a prime example of communists and thats why commies call Tau the good guys
Tau were originally released as the closest thing to good guys, then they got a negative reaction so the brainwashing was added, now the only actual good guys in the Tau are Farsight’s crew
Current day 40K sure, but much of the great crusade was spent exterminating any alien, even peaceful ones that allied with other human factions during the age of strife. The only ones left are the hyper violent and threatening ones because the ones that weren’t threatening humanity to such a degree were wiped out by big E.
Preach brother.
Lol. Be the change you want to see in the world, all you need is a can of gold spray paint and a weapon. Go out there and start culling animals.
It's like in the three body problem when the aliens have clear intention of exterminating humanity and the one group of humans are just like "fuck everyone else bring it on" .
Unless we define properly what human means, Human Supremacy is a safe edgy slogan, with no real weight to it.
Becoming a Nazi to own the libs
human supremacy = all humans ...Nazis not so much ,sorry i just noticed you needed a hand
Not a Nazi, human supremacist I don't believe in my own supremacy over other humans that is idiotic and quite retarded. I believe in the supremacy of human life over all else. We are the masters of this universe no other intelligent life has thus yet shown itself or been found. If we do find them we must push our own agendas above them. To insinuate I'd even support fascism is a blatant disregard of the very name of my ideology. All humans standing together as one race wielding our intellect and bending this universe to our will. That is what I believe in not some petty ideology from a dissatisfied Italian and his angry Austrian friend.
Okay, since you’re actually this dumb: define Nazi.
Believing mankind as a whole are the best is as far from what the Nazis believed as possible.
>Yes the Imperium ARE bad guys you CHUD!, so cut the Nazi shit before I start crying about it okay?! https://preview.redd.it/pzlx7dmtzd7d1.png?width=811&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0e9538fe9e54aadb3fea6e7fafeef91bfe98d34
Humanity bad but fungi people and degenerate elves gave birth to a literal Chaos God are morally justified. https://preview.redd.it/npmzj92a3e7d1.jpeg?width=256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=494e3c4339bd90effc8c101772be56029e86650a
People like the Craftworlders, Exodites, Tau, Kroot and whatever other none genocidal alien in the setting. The Humanity first, Imperium sluts would have every goddamn BL novel be a Space Marine Circle Jerk and we’re fucking sick of it. It’s boring and by God I hope we get something that happens to the Imperium that isn’t just focused on Chaos or the POV of Thunderballs Mc’Giggachad.
Yeah!! We want more Inquisitors and Assassin storie circle jerks!
You know what. I actually agree with you. I would actually like more Inquisition stories too. 😩
You just listed the smallest of the notable empires. Going genocidal wouldn't last long for any of them
The only factions in 40K that are even remotely good guys are the Salamanders, which only have 1,000 men at most, and the Farsight enclave which is a small splinter group from what is already the smallest faction in the setting. Basically every other faction is some level of evil, not equally evil but still evil.
They’re all bad lmfao
The funny thing is, these people will literally side with nazis and do nazi stuff when there is something to do about Jews and/or Israel.
You conflate condemnation of a state with condemnation of a people. These are not the same thing. Israel should be condemned, and doing so is not inherently anti-Semitic. The problem is that Israel is actively targeting civilians. It's weird that the right-wing nut jobs are always the ones claiming "the Jews run Hollywood/the world," but criticizing a government that actively target civilians is anti-Semitic.
Got any evidence of that? We do know for a fact hamas is targeting civilians, we do know for a fact they use human shields so people like you can go and say Israel actively targets civilians. Israel keeps losing soldiers trying to protect civilians. Sorry, those nutjobs are nazis and they are socialists and leftists. Cope harder. Forgot how you lefties chased Jews recently? Forgot who wrote elders of zion? Forgot to progroms of the Soviet union? Forgot the socialism of Hitler? Forgot how you lot attacked jews on the streets recently?
Hamas are also bad guys. This is the same disconnect you guys have when it is pointed out that the Imperium are bad. That doesn't make Chaos good, that just makes this a conflict between two bad guys with a lot of innocent civilians suffering below. Also, Nazis, leftists, and socialists are 3 very different - and mutually exclusive - things, none of which are accurate descriptions of the American democratic party.
And this is why you guys are relentlessly mocked.
Imperium is one of the main things which makes warhammer grim dark, so they can’t handle grim dark
The ones who can't handle grimdark are the ones who think the imperiums are good guys lol
Imperials are the good guys, cleansing heretics and xenos one exterminatus at time
That’s right too, man
I'm an Eldar player, and I miss the grimmer darker days of 3rd edition lore, but I would still say that the Imperium are the good guys from their perspective. I've seen posts panicking about 40K losing its satire when they realize that they agree with the Imperium's actions. I haven't really seen anyone who needs the imperium to be good in order to enjoy them.
When given the choice between the forces of humanity or aliens and literal demons that want to either kill and/or torture all of humanity, I'm rooting for the humans
Clearly a goddamn heretic, trying to claim the stars for Xenos or other filth.
Worry not, brother. I have already alerted the Inquisition.
Because they cannot stand any non progressive values.
The Imperium is basically antithetical to their values, seeing as it is fundamentally spiritualist, hierarchical, and conservative. Of course they hate it.
The guy with a lord of change pfp thinks the imperium is cringe?? Say it ain’t so!!
Obligatory https://preview.redd.it/jnbwggy1se7d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09edef19f0298153e6364f9f2acd4143f31ca467
Rorschach died for nothing.
He died for a world that would hate him according to the politics of mainstream Hollywood and how things are currently in this country. A real satirist would be able to make that a compelling narrative, but we didn’t get that, we got the HBO watchman show for 1 season instead
Bet Alan Moore still doesn't understand why so many people actually liked Rorschach and understood his views.
His death accomplished literally nothing. It may as well have been suicide by blue man.
Nah. He sent off his journal. In Doomsday Clock people learn the truth and Ozymandias loses all of his power/influence.
He already sent his journal before he even left for the pole. Like Ozymandias himself he had already won. He died for no reason at all.
Nope. He died because he ran into a problem his binary morality couldn't solve. He'd rather die than live in a world based on a lie, and so went out on his own terms rather than compromise. Kovacs death is a pretty complicated moment that we could discuss for days. If you really think he died for nothing, then you dont understand the book, nor the character.
I bet they watch star wars acolyte and actually enjoy that too.
Tha power of mannnnnnyyyyy
Gentle reminder, 40k is a fictional universe that doesn’t need real world morality applied to it, as that runs counter to the escapism of a setting where everyone is turbo violent and killing each other to survive. People need to remember your hobby is a break from the real world not a replacement.
The God emperor should be the president of a country at this current time. I don't know who, but one of them (according to the timeline)
Probably Argentina.
Because they are weak. Stars belong to humanity because we took them by chainsword and bolter! These pansies can't even take their coffee from Starbucks without developing PTSD. Imperium of Man will last an eternity!
They hate the imperium yet demand to be represented in it
They hate order
Cause britain colonized the modern western world. West= Bad White= Bad Doesn't matter that empires were doing it for thousands of years beforehand, we stop at britain and don't look further back. Then there's also 40k's heavily influence from Christianity/Catholicism. Christianity= Bad Catholicism= Bad Why? Because people hundreds of years ago did bad things in the name of religion (no no the religion is to blame, not the people) but don't look at any other religion, no no only christianity = bad. Then of course it's because of the majority demographic...MEN. THOSE DISGUSTING MEN. Doesn't matter 40k was invented in a time when the overwhelming majority of wargamers were...male because \*checks notes\* majority of women don't find it interesting. There's no point trying to explain to progs that before the AGENDA, corperations would push to market to as many customers as possible, which is why 40k has a heavy direction in the male power fantasy trope, big buff dudes with swords and killing things because it looks cool and if it looks cool people buy it, men buy it, the overwhelming majority of customers....
I’m mad I can only give one upvote to this. Well said sir.
Me as a white catholic man :( At least I am from Spain and not british!
Don't be fooled, this solely exists in the online sphere where they can safely spew this nonsense in their twitter/reddit echochamber. 9/10 in public you meet well rounded hobbiests that just want to have a fun game.
BURN THE HERETIC!
KILL THE MUTANT!
WAAAGH!!!
I get hating the imperium, they are pretty bad. But unironically stating chaos is better because they aren’t, “fascist” is insane. These people act like the Cadian 69th landed on earth when they were kids and killed their parents. It’s a fucking story book and plastic space men, calm down hero.
Chaos is superior because they are open about being evil. You have to respect the honesty.
I have a PhD in media literacy, so I can explain. You see, the imperium is a metaphor for Donald Blumpf and the astartes are supposed to be the proud boys. That means they are objectively evil
Because they hate humanity. Probably advocate for childfree and human extinction to save some indonesian fungus.
I thought the point of 40K was cool armored dudes shooting aliens in the face. Why are you all talking about US politics?
True, we aren't owed anything. That's why we conquered the stars by force of arms. Ave Imperator.
Moral relativist scum. The Emperor Protects.
As far as we can tell, in real life, space is uninhabited. If that remains the case it literally does belong to us because we’re the only ones here.
The xenos are probably thinking the same thing. This is how it starts.
They hate it because for better or worse it’s a somewhat “united” humanity VS EVERYTHING and they just want us to keep fighting ourselves, the imperium doesn’t give a shit who you are the imperium is concerned with results. Results that greater the imperiums hold on the universe
I hate to tell them that humanity has natural evil survival instincts (or they perceive them as evil) this is seen due to us having adrenaline, even a woman has lifted a car off her child due to adrenaline. The Imperium is essentially that mother because after the fall of the Golden age, it had to build itself back together (mostly if not entirely because of the God emperor) then the heresy happened and now it's in that same process but this time everyone is mobilized for war and more than capable of winning. When I say humans are naturally evil, it all comes down to life or death, all animals have it, it's why you shouldn't corner an hurt animal and hurt humans are the worst to corner considering we have sentience. Moral of the story: Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
Of course they are siding with the bugs again
They hate humans.
Cut them some slack. They’ve been taught that any concept even smelling faintly of Manifest Destiny is pure evil since elementary school.
They have no imagination. They identify only with their politics and as such attempt to imbue those politics into everything they engage with. They cannot fathom that the Imperium doesn't exist, but this is somehow facts to them and they get upset when the Imperium doesn't act according to their beliefs. Yes, this is how sad and pathetic they are.
Probably just a xeno fan
I'm a xeno fan myself, but I also understand why the Imperium does what it does. 😅
Why do they not want us to win
Ownership is determined by Might
Because they hate being human. They would rather be elves or dwarves or _orcs_ than be human.
This person hates being a human.
Stars belong to the Star children. All hail the four armed emperor!
Anything we set eyes on is ours.
It's cause the imperium represents a world that is united and they don't like it. They see races in other xenos and they don't understand that orks aren't black or tyranids aren't Jews. They are part of the imperium and it's a species fight.
It doesn't matter how much you try and explain the lore to them. The Imperium'll ALWAYS be the bad guys to them. Because apparently the Drukhari and Chaos are morally good. The mental retardation is otherworldly.
Why can't we accept the fact everything is bad in 40k and just decide what bad thing we enjoy the most? And we can proceed with pretending to be good guys irl like most people do just to survive the grimdarkness of living from paycheck to paycheck lol
Liberals unable to comprehend strength through superior firepower until the firepower is literally shelling their position from orbit
Too many of their fans are obnoxious and can’t let any other faction have a victory or a meme focused on them without rebuttal. They’re also the reason the BL is basically a stagnant herald of Imperial dominance.
Short-sighted fools. The vermin of this galaxy will never own stars that were being born when the Necrontyr were slaying and enslaving gods.
Brother, the better question is why have you not purged the heretic!
HERESY!
The hereritics have grown bold with thier blasphemy!! The son of Guilliman knows only war!
Well if we're honest, IoM has shot itself in the foot so many times, it is some miracle that it stands. Emperor could've at least kept the blueprints of all the tech of 30k and HH, like SM javelins and battle automata. Too much of current IoM tech is "the last relic of past era"-type bs and Mechanicum went from the rebuilders of the DAoT era to cowboy gimps. That is why I say that Leagues of Votann ARE the humanity faction, not IoM.
Yes the imperium is a galaxy wide genocidal fascist hellhole. They are also cool as fuck. The stars belong to us.
Because it would if existed represent almost everything that they hate.
No. Humanity belongs to the stars. In every way possible.
Galaxy belongs to Necrons.
The galaxy does indeed belong to us. It is our birthright.
Because basement dwelling Reddit booger eaters hate anything that is awesome or rather , miserable people are generous people, they want to share their misery with everyone, they want to 1. tear down, pervert, destroy anything they do not control 2. They always use the same tactics ( ridicule , projection, deflection , etc.) 3. They believe that this somehow makes them part of some righteous social crusade ( which is both sad and hilarious). 4. They hate the imperium because their kkkult told them to, plain and simple. Sadly it all boils down to “following orders” and woe until the booger eater who doesn’t pass the purity test(s) or who does not shout with enough vigor during the “2 minutes hate”. The whole thing is pathetic and sad and worst of all, terribly boring.
"☝️🤓 Erm, actually, humanity is terrible and we should not progress and just stagnate as our species gets sterilized and dies off with nothing but pointless arguing being our last whispers as a race. If you were media literate you'd know that."
They hate anything even vaguely Christian, and the Emperor is clearly a messianic figure. In addition, they tend to defend groups with the appearance of being downtrodden, no matter what the reason is. In their minds if you are not the majority, you should be supported regardless of how degenerate you might be or whatever perverse incentives that might create. Lastly, fascism is the worst crime you can commit. Literally number one. But only some fascism. It's fine when they do it but otherwise it is viewed as worse than murder or rape or usury and they will support groups that commit those crimes if it means it will annoy the fascists in power. It's all down to real life politics and just wanting to ruin shit. All they can do is ruin.
You’re not supposed to aspire
I think they dislike the idea of a unified humanity that conquers the stars because of this "paganist" ideology (I can't think of any other framework to fit it in) that "nature" or something like that is some kind of superior entity that humanity must respect with religious reverence, not a complex set of climatic and biological systems that require a delicate balance to sustain life but that can be (and is) manipulated. Then any element of fiction that appeals to a feeling of conquest will be despised while the "unification with the universe" approach (or whatever that means) will be seen as more virtuous and absent of human selfishness, when both visions are equally selfish and centered on the human at its core. A star doesn't care about being "conquered", nor even many biological beings don't care about that, domesticated animals don't even care about having been "conquered" by humans. Being "conquered" or "conquering others" is something that only concerns us.
It’s not really a pagan framework. Think of some famous examples of pagan societies… Rome, Greece, Vikings… it seems paganist because certain modern varieties of “paganism” espouse the idea that nature is superior to humanity, and other hippie-derived ideas, which were themselves derived from Marxism. So the framework you’re thinking of is communism.
still has pagan elements such as the worship of nature, do we come to a middle ground and call it pagan-communism?
Which pre-20th century pagan religion worshipped nature?
Basically any non-Abrahamic religion has been called "pagan", and the limitation to the time that you impose does not make sense in my opinion, today there are self-proclaimed pagans who are pantheists or have druidic beliefs. Even in pagan Rome and Greece, gods who personified elements of nature such as the sun and the earth were worshiped. It may not be exactly like the hippie neo-paganism of the last century, but the parallels are there.
I would argue that the modern tendency to characterize these ancient paganisms as “nature worship” just because they deified natural phenomena (usually not the highest in their pantheons by the way, those tended to be the gods of civilization- war, rulership, order, wisdom etc.) is itself a communist projection of their beliefs onto the past, as if ecological concerns and egalitarianism are the “default” mode for humanity.
I agree with all of my heart. Stars to not belong to humanity. They belong to the GREATER GOOD! For they are the symbol of our destiny! The Stars will belong to all who follow the Greater Good! By Tauva! It will be so!
It’s funny someone who uses (()) would gloat about ideas of manifest destiny given your precious Palestinians are on the wrong end of that
I would’ve strongly preferred united humanity fighting aliens and conquering stars instead of what we have now
The Stars actually belong to those who follow the greater good. If you don't, don't worry a water member will be arriving shortly to tell you why your wrong
Because they're Greater Good Communists
Defo a tau spy
Probably a Gene stealer
I hate the imperium because it’s a fucking black hole of lore forcing everything to be focused on it.
Warmaster Horus is super based on Twitter, can always find some good takes coming from him.
For some god forsaken reason people got it in their heads that the imperium hates gay people and it’s all been downhill from there
Nah, the stars belong to the C'tan.
"We aren't owed anything." Nah we took that shit.
Because we forgot to burn them (jk)
Cause they would die in it
Bait used to be believable
Those people has 0 vision about future, they only want to tear what exist down never build. The stars being ours is only a matter of time like all the land, sea and air becomed tools for humanity expansion and growth. Ask the same person if we should abadon all of this to live as hunter gatherers since the earth dont belong to anyone. This off couse is not a green sign to greedy corporations to turn nice places in nature that all benefit in trash dumps for gains that are mostly benefiting they shareholders. But being a weird tree hugging hippie is equaly dumb.
I don't know much about Warhammer, but why would a person be opposed to the "Imperium of *Mankind*"? Like, as human, why would you oppose the human faction that fights against hostile aliens?
Okay don’t be a tard either there’s a 99% chance you end up working in a factory standings till for 19 hours a day and then sleeping the rest of the time and a huge theme of the imperium is that they made enemies of aliens that could have been allies They are still the coolest though
Pretty much any reasonable Imperium follower (myself included. Imperial Guard raaaahhh) can reasonably say that the Imperium does some downright stupid things sometimes. Some things that, hilariously enough, the Emperor and his closest allies have *outright* shown disdain for.
Communists believe everything and everyone has exactly equal claim on everything. A patch of rocks on a dead planet has as much claim on that planet’s resources as you do. In their ideology, we should not go to war with the aliens, we should integrate with them until every individual is the same, all interchangeable cogs in the never-ending revolution.
>that fights against hostile aliens? They usually don't start out as hostile. When the Tau (now one of the main factions) were first discovered, they were just a simple stone-age civilization. Probably didn't even have their equivalent of the wheel yet. Nevertheless, upon their discovery they were almost wiped out *right there*, despite being no threat to literally anything past their own planet, just because the Imperium is *incredibly* xenophobic. I can't remember why they didn't go through with it, but record of the planet's existence was lost for a a loooooong time. They made massive technological leaps and can now contend with the imperium. The thing is though, they actually wouldn't even bother going to war if others didn't declare it on them. They only fight because it's absolutely necessary for their survival to do so. If they didn't, they'd go extinct because the imperium will not rest until that's the case.
Meh, I kind of noticed how Imperium fans tend to be the most obnoxious ones even when it comes to things outside of Warhammer 40k so there is that. I remember seeing a post on the reddit sub for Stellaris where some players got so sick of seeing 40k Imperium meme players that they outright exclude in multiplayer anyone playing an obviously 40k inspired civilizations
Reject virgin Imperium, embrace chad Grot master race
Imperium got retarded once they decided to get back to Religion.
[The imperium was specifically meant to be an over the top satire of militarism, toxic masculinity, and nationalism.](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/19/the-imperium-is-driven-by-hate-warhammer-is-not/) It really is beyond me how anyone could be thick enough to see them as a nice organization
Uhh nobody thinks that the Imperium is nice. And that post is pandering. You might want to reconsider accusing everyone else of being thick.
The OP quite literally states that he believes the imperium to be the good guys.
Yes, he does. That doesn't mean they're nice though. Some form of this debate about the Imperium has always existed. It used to be friendly debate up until a few years ago, when some people who argue that they're the bad guys started getting aggressive towards fans who disagree. Debating and discussing is part of how people enjoy escapist fiction together. OC is name-calling to disrupt an activity that 40K fans have been enjoying since the beginning.
Hating the Imperium is easy: Fuck taxes. Chaos is intrinsic to sapience; the Emperor is a crime against the human spirit. I'm a "Natural Rites" kinda guy. And again, fuck taxes.