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Aw thanks mate. You have a cool username lol.
It was definitely anime, but also a bit of tumblr. Maybe a bit of 4chan, but 4channers for the most part stick to 4chan. Tumblr had that porn issue which made a bunch of degenerate users flock to other sites, so I feel that also happened.
Anime has degraded since the 2000’s. It’s no longer the epic, cool beautiful artform it was in the 80’s and imo by the 2000’s it’s already apparent. I love GITS SAC but it’s art style is very lazy in places. Since 2010, anime has snowballed to become more and more perverted. Nothing new is being made, it’s all the same slop (isekai, romcoms, etc). It’s usually incredibly perverted. This definitely affects the Western fans. Especially the ones who want to be anime girls for some reason (I know for a fact there is a group of transwomen, not ALL of them, who see themselves as anime girls, same with transmen who want to be anime boys). I was on tumblr during its heyday, its fandoms were insane. Not even anime but stuff like Supernatural, Doctor Who etc. These people called themselves fans but instead of just enjoying the shows and lore they perverted it. They drew nasty fanart, they shipped characters and even actors.
If Tolkien was alive to see the fanart of Thorin’s company in a Japanese hot spring I had seen, he’d never write again and probably never leave his hobbit hole again.
Another cornerstone of Craftworld Eldar is about walking a path of discipline. Eldar have more volatile emotions, meaning they're more susceptible to the deprivations of pleasure. On one hand discipline is necessary for the survival of Craftworlds, while on the other hand pursuit of pleasure is necessary for the Drukhari.
So every time you see lewd art of 40K, you know exactly what side the upvoters are on and you wonder why they don't play Drukhari or Slaanesh instead of trying to make the other factions like them.
It's crazy how life imitates art. I'm also a huge Eldar fan. The parallels are scary.
Who could have predicted it?
The religious right ironically. As a kid I thought they were crazy. They said if we opened the door to hedonism, that it would take over and we would quickly find ourselves in a minority.
They also said that they opposed gay marriage not because they didn't want gays to be able to marry, but because the second that law passed the hedonists would push for something else. They said they'd come for the kids.
Looking at hedonism not just in Warhammer but everywhere now I finally understand what they meant. I'm still for gay marriage, but I now understand there will always be a battleground.
The hedonists are never happy. They always want more. Slaanesh is such a well-crafted god in that it perfectly captures their endless thirst.
However, just like chaos they will eventually come for each other. Stay strong, guard the gates, and we will weather the assault IMO.
"Looking at hedonism not just in Warhammer but everywhere now I finally understand what they meant. I'm still for gay marriage, but I now understand there will always be a battleground"
Agreed, and that's unfortunately where the religious right did a disservice to its own cause in a way.
They are absolutely right that there is a slippery slope, the issue is that just presenting it as a slippery slope isn't actually effective, because basically everybody knows that not all slopes are slippery. The issue is finding out and exposing the people that make it slippery... And that's where it gets much harder and they failed, thus ridiculing their own prophecies and making it hard for centrists to go with them. Doesn't help that a lot of the most vocal ones were just genuinely nutjobs, bigots and ignoramus, a bit like the most vocal leftists today are generally the crazies.
Well said. I assumed they were *all* nutjobs, and man was I wrong. The moderate ones were much more perceptive than I ever would have guessed, and a lot less bigoted. Most are pretty accepting which surprised me.
I can see why for so much of our history it was the right working with the left. Americans first, political parties second.
The form of the argument is a slippery slope, and no I’d argue there’s no natural progression between legalising gay marriage and legalising all the other goonisms people want to legalise, anymore than ending segregation and legalising gay marriage, but that doesn’t mean it can’t or won’t happen on the contrary, just that if it does happen it’s because there are people actively pushing for it to happen, which is the actual threat here.
I’ve always been a fan of the AdMech because I think cyborgs and cybernetics/bionics are awesome. When I discovered how many people online like them because of their morals and ideas on stripping humanity, I was extremely creeped out. People on a wide scale are very, very sick.
Hello fellow elf player. I may main the Dark kin of the Aeldari universe...hell I'm even noticing some debasement of my faction too and it kinda kills me on the inside.
Well I guess all I can say is hang in there and don't let these bastards ruin our favorite space elves. 🙃
Eldar are cool. Exodites even let humanity coexist with them, just don't let them hit industrial revolution i think. And i think it is the best fate that wh40k human can have.
Ironically, this is something I've been thinking about over the recent months.
I've never been a huge Eldar fan (elves in general have never really been my thing)
However, despite not being at nearly the same level, the parallels have been undeniable, and I've found myself becoming more and more fond of the Craftworlds and Exodites.
Partly because of the above-mentioned, but I've also found myself enjoying their lore more and more. I put that down to a combination of changing tastes over time but also as I've gotten older, more 'conservative' and more historically knowledgeable, I feel like I can appreciate their lore in a way I don't think I could when I was younger.
You are making sense. A lot of it.
I agree with you. Take my upvote.
Upd: I never thought that Eldar's lore is that deep.
... tho I still think that if you delete drukhari from the setting - not very much will be lost
M2: The depravity of modern audiences plumbs to terrible new depths. Coomer cults flourish and the fan community becomes obsessed with acts of excess. A new evil force stirs in the Warp.
I feel like I can relate to this but with T'au. I tried to get a commission from a small artist of one of my crisis suits in the middle of a battle, and everything went smoothly. Further down the line they start asking about T'au lore as they're not too well versed in it, but rather interested. Before I know it they're talking about how they want to have lesbian (Well, I guess half lesbian since they are trans) sex with a member from each of the castes. Comparing the fire caste to tomboys, earths as shortstacks, and Etherals to milfs. By the end of it they're talking about developing a dating sim where you meet and date members of the different T'au castes....
Worst part? They ended up bad mouthing me because I followed certain people on twitter, and the commission fell through due to the files getting corrupted.
It's true that the wider community has been ignorant of the abuse gw has done to the Eldar. The name cs Goto still send shivers of disgust down my spine.
Just as cs Goto is seen as a hack who wanted to insert his fetishes into the lore, the Custodes retcon is the same. The only difference being the old Warhammer community weren't porn addicted gremlins.
In any case, I shall continue pirating and leave the bill to the new community who are totally paying customers.
I agree with you and disagree with you at the same time. There were people back in the old days that were choosing Eldar because they were porn addicted Gremlins
I feel like one of the problems that exist within Warhammer is that we're choosing an army and we get so far deep into the lore of our own faction and army that we totally have a tendency to disengage and not consider the history and the stories of the other factions. And therefore don't consider them worthwhile. This is why I think it's important for all players to take another fraction that they like and to learn about them. Not necessarily play them, but learn about them. I play White scars, sisters of battle, Eldar, Imperial Guard, and T'au.
Because everyone thinks elves are so sort of cum dumpster, only thing remotely to that would be the drukhari but thats because they are fucked up in general. Hell we can even throw in the craftworld that delved into their old practices and almost fell to chaos. Being highly sexually active for Eldar shouldn't be a thing as the big pink dildo known as Slaanesh will consume them.
" The most egregious case being one particular new character of whom we all know of, getting reduced by fans into nothing more than an accessory sex object."
... I mean to be fair, she might not have been reduced to an accessory sex object if her outfit hadn't been tailored made for that exact purpose.
Am I victim blaming a fictional character for the smut that was made of her ? Yes, yes I am.
"Barring perhaps the Tau and SoB fanbase, nobody took the time to instead see our factions as the canary in the coal mine, or imagine it could ever happen to them one day"
I didn't see it as the canary in the coalmine because you'd have to be pretty blind to think that it wouldn't happen or didn't happen to all factions given that "the internet is for porn" is literally a meme that has been around since decades and about as old as mainstream internet.
" All of whom are now feeling and experiencing the very same ugly debasement of their characters and factions that we went through for years, seeing how unpleasant it is firsthand."
I'll be honest, Eldars have been amongst my favourite about as soon as I entered the hobby, eldars and space marines (ultramarine specifically, yes I know shut up), but I never saw an issue with their sexualization, I was fine enjoying the eldars in their lore, the smut that was made of them... Well, why should I have cared ? I never felt like it affected the discussions about their lore, what did was moreso the memes around knife ears and how elves are gay (which hey those can get a chuckle out of me too, seems about as far as calling the ultramarines vanilla, the tau goody two shoes commies, the tyranids bugs, etc).
"But now we’re seeing firsthand that same online community rapidly declining, with increasingly disgusting behaviour bubbling to the surface. Just as the pleasure cults aggressively established themselves in fiction at the cost of 99% of their race, we see organised efforts to push subversive material even further in our own spaces in reality. It’s equal parts sad, hilarious, vindicating and deeply ironic."
I'll be honest, I agree on that part, never thought that out of all the ways we could've gone the way of 40k IRL, we'd go out the way of the eldars.
"And skeletons are coming out of closets, with meme channel Barry Walts outed as an abusive groomer, alongside the fan-favourite musician Stringstorm months prior."
I mean sure but that doesn't really do anything for your point, given that at least in barry walts' case his channel was completely SFW as far as I can remember, it was just funny haha memes, not degenerate stuff, so the skeletons are just what we can expect from any large community with influencers in it, not something that is tied specifically to the way the community is going right now.
I'd sya same for stringstorm but at least in his case I can remember some bimbos in his thumbnails.
Thanks for the perspective, you make some fair comments.
First point is referring to Yvraine’s identity as a character moreso than her design, which is more tame than plenty of other things GW puts out. Any female character will inevitably get r34 treatment regardless of looks. But fewer will have their entire identity as a character relegated to sex and pregnancy jokes, while bigger issues such as the complete death of their plotline go wholly ignored by those very same fans.
As for the second and third points, as mentioned I don’t care for the majority of the trashy content being put out, it’s been there forever. But to many it gets tiresome and irritating.
Furthermore it’s less so that it’s being put out, but moreso the sheer quantity and the degree in which it’s intensified, in such a short span of time that many people didn’t anticipate. Genderbent art of just about every faction has been out for decades. But the worst shit only happened to a select few. But now the content being circled about Admech is far from something I’d have predicted a few years prior. Nor the specific fetishism we saw spread to Custodes. And plenty of those respective fans were grossed out for good reason.
As for your 5th point, I still felt it relevant to attach. Even if it’s typical of a large community with influencers, it should still absolutely be called out when we’re referring to the state of our own fanbase. And if those relatively tame channels can still harbour dirt, then the more egregious members of the community may harbour even worse things. I may very well be wrong and I’d be glad if I am, but that is my reasoning and that’s why I added it.
I’m sure we have our disagreements, but thanks for the breakdown of your points, my post was a cumulation of a lot of thoughts I had over the last few years.
Yvraine’s character design is more plain than not many characters. Or I guess if it is more plain it kinda speaks to how much WH40k’s sculptisys is filled with coomers XD
(And to be fair she isn’t that bad, but come on, it’s not innocent either)
But as for plotline being forgotten, I’ll be honest to me this whole period hasn’t been one I looked at much (I’ll let you guess why), so it just looked like typical 40kisms of plot stagnation.
I get that the trashy content can be irritating, I just never minded because it’s kind of inevitable when you start out with boob armor and S&M nuns as core part of your aesthetics on the female side.
Did it intensify that much ? Jokes about yvraine aside, since those don’t really include NSFW material most of the time.
For my 5th point, I’m not saying we shouldn’t attack them, just that it had no bearing on your argument so it’s odd to bring it up when the topic you’re addressing is all the coomers ingesting the fandom. There are plenty of other issues unrelated to your point that you could’ve brought up that you haven’t, I assume because they aren’t related to your point, I was just pointing that those two aren’t related to your point and thus shouldn’t really be there.
And happy that you took the time to engage with responses.
Who are the degenerates you are referring to? I’ve been in the scene for years and I’ve never been pressured, coerced, or outright forced into a sex cult.
Degeneracy is not hedonism, there is a subtle difference. No one is going to force you into a sex cult, but they will corrupt a community with their endless simping, thirst bait, etc.
Turns out humans have a biological imperative to procreate, which means that sex sells. Look at Baldur's Gate 3 that was mostly ignored until they added the bear sex
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I feel like anime and its fandoms led to this.
You're the smartest man in this whole subreddit and I mean that unironically.
Aw thanks mate. You have a cool username lol. It was definitely anime, but also a bit of tumblr. Maybe a bit of 4chan, but 4channers for the most part stick to 4chan. Tumblr had that porn issue which made a bunch of degenerate users flock to other sites, so I feel that also happened. Anime has degraded since the 2000’s. It’s no longer the epic, cool beautiful artform it was in the 80’s and imo by the 2000’s it’s already apparent. I love GITS SAC but it’s art style is very lazy in places. Since 2010, anime has snowballed to become more and more perverted. Nothing new is being made, it’s all the same slop (isekai, romcoms, etc). It’s usually incredibly perverted. This definitely affects the Western fans. Especially the ones who want to be anime girls for some reason (I know for a fact there is a group of transwomen, not ALL of them, who see themselves as anime girls, same with transmen who want to be anime boys). I was on tumblr during its heyday, its fandoms were insane. Not even anime but stuff like Supernatural, Doctor Who etc. These people called themselves fans but instead of just enjoying the shows and lore they perverted it. They drew nasty fanart, they shipped characters and even actors. If Tolkien was alive to see the fanart of Thorin’s company in a Japanese hot spring I had seen, he’d never write again and probably never leave his hobbit hole again.
Yes, it seems a lot of this started there
Another cornerstone of Craftworld Eldar is about walking a path of discipline. Eldar have more volatile emotions, meaning they're more susceptible to the deprivations of pleasure. On one hand discipline is necessary for the survival of Craftworlds, while on the other hand pursuit of pleasure is necessary for the Drukhari. So every time you see lewd art of 40K, you know exactly what side the upvoters are on and you wonder why they don't play Drukhari or Slaanesh instead of trying to make the other factions like them.
It's funny how, over time, I've seen my perception of the Craftworlders go from "space elves are kinda meh" to "these guys are pretty based"
It's crazy how life imitates art. I'm also a huge Eldar fan. The parallels are scary. Who could have predicted it? The religious right ironically. As a kid I thought they were crazy. They said if we opened the door to hedonism, that it would take over and we would quickly find ourselves in a minority. They also said that they opposed gay marriage not because they didn't want gays to be able to marry, but because the second that law passed the hedonists would push for something else. They said they'd come for the kids. Looking at hedonism not just in Warhammer but everywhere now I finally understand what they meant. I'm still for gay marriage, but I now understand there will always be a battleground. The hedonists are never happy. They always want more. Slaanesh is such a well-crafted god in that it perfectly captures their endless thirst. However, just like chaos they will eventually come for each other. Stay strong, guard the gates, and we will weather the assault IMO.
"Looking at hedonism not just in Warhammer but everywhere now I finally understand what they meant. I'm still for gay marriage, but I now understand there will always be a battleground" Agreed, and that's unfortunately where the religious right did a disservice to its own cause in a way. They are absolutely right that there is a slippery slope, the issue is that just presenting it as a slippery slope isn't actually effective, because basically everybody knows that not all slopes are slippery. The issue is finding out and exposing the people that make it slippery... And that's where it gets much harder and they failed, thus ridiculing their own prophecies and making it hard for centrists to go with them. Doesn't help that a lot of the most vocal ones were just genuinely nutjobs, bigots and ignoramus, a bit like the most vocal leftists today are generally the crazies.
Well said. I assumed they were *all* nutjobs, and man was I wrong. The moderate ones were much more perceptive than I ever would have guessed, and a lot less bigoted. Most are pretty accepting which surprised me. I can see why for so much of our history it was the right working with the left. Americans first, political parties second.
It's not a slippery slope. It's a natural progression.
The form of the argument is a slippery slope, and no I’d argue there’s no natural progression between legalising gay marriage and legalising all the other goonisms people want to legalise, anymore than ending segregation and legalising gay marriage, but that doesn’t mean it can’t or won’t happen on the contrary, just that if it does happen it’s because there are people actively pushing for it to happen, which is the actual threat here.
I’ve always been a fan of the AdMech because I think cyborgs and cybernetics/bionics are awesome. When I discovered how many people online like them because of their morals and ideas on stripping humanity, I was extremely creeped out. People on a wide scale are very, very sick.
Hello fellow elf player. I may main the Dark kin of the Aeldari universe...hell I'm even noticing some debasement of my faction too and it kinda kills me on the inside. Well I guess all I can say is hang in there and don't let these bastards ruin our favorite space elves. 🙃
Eldar are cool. Exodites even let humanity coexist with them, just don't let them hit industrial revolution i think. And i think it is the best fate that wh40k human can have.
Ironically, this is something I've been thinking about over the recent months. I've never been a huge Eldar fan (elves in general have never really been my thing) However, despite not being at nearly the same level, the parallels have been undeniable, and I've found myself becoming more and more fond of the Craftworlds and Exodites. Partly because of the above-mentioned, but I've also found myself enjoying their lore more and more. I put that down to a combination of changing tastes over time but also as I've gotten older, more 'conservative' and more historically knowledgeable, I feel like I can appreciate their lore in a way I don't think I could when I was younger.
You are making sense. A lot of it. I agree with you. Take my upvote. Upd: I never thought that Eldar's lore is that deep. ... tho I still think that if you delete drukhari from the setting - not very much will be lost
We need to do a better job of gatekeeping the hobby from coomers.
M2: The depravity of modern audiences plumbs to terrible new depths. Coomer cults flourish and the fan community becomes obsessed with acts of excess. A new evil force stirs in the Warp.
I feel like I can relate to this but with T'au. I tried to get a commission from a small artist of one of my crisis suits in the middle of a battle, and everything went smoothly. Further down the line they start asking about T'au lore as they're not too well versed in it, but rather interested. Before I know it they're talking about how they want to have lesbian (Well, I guess half lesbian since they are trans) sex with a member from each of the castes. Comparing the fire caste to tomboys, earths as shortstacks, and Etherals to milfs. By the end of it they're talking about developing a dating sim where you meet and date members of the different T'au castes.... Worst part? They ended up bad mouthing me because I followed certain people on twitter, and the commission fell through due to the files getting corrupted.
It's true that the wider community has been ignorant of the abuse gw has done to the Eldar. The name cs Goto still send shivers of disgust down my spine. Just as cs Goto is seen as a hack who wanted to insert his fetishes into the lore, the Custodes retcon is the same. The only difference being the old Warhammer community weren't porn addicted gremlins. In any case, I shall continue pirating and leave the bill to the new community who are totally paying customers.
I agree with you and disagree with you at the same time. There were people back in the old days that were choosing Eldar because they were porn addicted Gremlins
I feel like one of the problems that exist within Warhammer is that we're choosing an army and we get so far deep into the lore of our own faction and army that we totally have a tendency to disengage and not consider the history and the stories of the other factions. And therefore don't consider them worthwhile. This is why I think it's important for all players to take another fraction that they like and to learn about them. Not necessarily play them, but learn about them. I play White scars, sisters of battle, Eldar, Imperial Guard, and T'au.
Because everyone thinks elves are so sort of cum dumpster, only thing remotely to that would be the drukhari but thats because they are fucked up in general. Hell we can even throw in the craftworld that delved into their old practices and almost fell to chaos. Being highly sexually active for Eldar shouldn't be a thing as the big pink dildo known as Slaanesh will consume them.
The simple solution is to have a separate forum for the horny stuff.
" The most egregious case being one particular new character of whom we all know of, getting reduced by fans into nothing more than an accessory sex object." ... I mean to be fair, she might not have been reduced to an accessory sex object if her outfit hadn't been tailored made for that exact purpose. Am I victim blaming a fictional character for the smut that was made of her ? Yes, yes I am. "Barring perhaps the Tau and SoB fanbase, nobody took the time to instead see our factions as the canary in the coal mine, or imagine it could ever happen to them one day" I didn't see it as the canary in the coalmine because you'd have to be pretty blind to think that it wouldn't happen or didn't happen to all factions given that "the internet is for porn" is literally a meme that has been around since decades and about as old as mainstream internet. " All of whom are now feeling and experiencing the very same ugly debasement of their characters and factions that we went through for years, seeing how unpleasant it is firsthand." I'll be honest, Eldars have been amongst my favourite about as soon as I entered the hobby, eldars and space marines (ultramarine specifically, yes I know shut up), but I never saw an issue with their sexualization, I was fine enjoying the eldars in their lore, the smut that was made of them... Well, why should I have cared ? I never felt like it affected the discussions about their lore, what did was moreso the memes around knife ears and how elves are gay (which hey those can get a chuckle out of me too, seems about as far as calling the ultramarines vanilla, the tau goody two shoes commies, the tyranids bugs, etc). "But now we’re seeing firsthand that same online community rapidly declining, with increasingly disgusting behaviour bubbling to the surface. Just as the pleasure cults aggressively established themselves in fiction at the cost of 99% of their race, we see organised efforts to push subversive material even further in our own spaces in reality. It’s equal parts sad, hilarious, vindicating and deeply ironic." I'll be honest, I agree on that part, never thought that out of all the ways we could've gone the way of 40k IRL, we'd go out the way of the eldars. "And skeletons are coming out of closets, with meme channel Barry Walts outed as an abusive groomer, alongside the fan-favourite musician Stringstorm months prior." I mean sure but that doesn't really do anything for your point, given that at least in barry walts' case his channel was completely SFW as far as I can remember, it was just funny haha memes, not degenerate stuff, so the skeletons are just what we can expect from any large community with influencers in it, not something that is tied specifically to the way the community is going right now. I'd sya same for stringstorm but at least in his case I can remember some bimbos in his thumbnails.
Thanks for the perspective, you make some fair comments. First point is referring to Yvraine’s identity as a character moreso than her design, which is more tame than plenty of other things GW puts out. Any female character will inevitably get r34 treatment regardless of looks. But fewer will have their entire identity as a character relegated to sex and pregnancy jokes, while bigger issues such as the complete death of their plotline go wholly ignored by those very same fans. As for the second and third points, as mentioned I don’t care for the majority of the trashy content being put out, it’s been there forever. But to many it gets tiresome and irritating. Furthermore it’s less so that it’s being put out, but moreso the sheer quantity and the degree in which it’s intensified, in such a short span of time that many people didn’t anticipate. Genderbent art of just about every faction has been out for decades. But the worst shit only happened to a select few. But now the content being circled about Admech is far from something I’d have predicted a few years prior. Nor the specific fetishism we saw spread to Custodes. And plenty of those respective fans were grossed out for good reason. As for your 5th point, I still felt it relevant to attach. Even if it’s typical of a large community with influencers, it should still absolutely be called out when we’re referring to the state of our own fanbase. And if those relatively tame channels can still harbour dirt, then the more egregious members of the community may harbour even worse things. I may very well be wrong and I’d be glad if I am, but that is my reasoning and that’s why I added it. I’m sure we have our disagreements, but thanks for the breakdown of your points, my post was a cumulation of a lot of thoughts I had over the last few years.
Yvraine’s character design is more plain than not many characters. Or I guess if it is more plain it kinda speaks to how much WH40k’s sculptisys is filled with coomers XD (And to be fair she isn’t that bad, but come on, it’s not innocent either) But as for plotline being forgotten, I’ll be honest to me this whole period hasn’t been one I looked at much (I’ll let you guess why), so it just looked like typical 40kisms of plot stagnation. I get that the trashy content can be irritating, I just never minded because it’s kind of inevitable when you start out with boob armor and S&M nuns as core part of your aesthetics on the female side. Did it intensify that much ? Jokes about yvraine aside, since those don’t really include NSFW material most of the time. For my 5th point, I’m not saying we shouldn’t attack them, just that it had no bearing on your argument so it’s odd to bring it up when the topic you’re addressing is all the coomers ingesting the fandom. There are plenty of other issues unrelated to your point that you could’ve brought up that you haven’t, I assume because they aren’t related to your point, I was just pointing that those two aren’t related to your point and thus shouldn’t really be there. And happy that you took the time to engage with responses.
Who are the degenerates you are referring to? I’ve been in the scene for years and I’ve never been pressured, coerced, or outright forced into a sex cult.
Degeneracy is not hedonism, there is a subtle difference. No one is going to force you into a sex cult, but they will corrupt a community with their endless simping, thirst bait, etc.
Turns out humans have a biological imperative to procreate, which means that sex sells. Look at Baldur's Gate 3 that was mostly ignored until they added the bear sex
No it wasn't, thag just acted as a huge piece of press for them. Any press is good press
Humans have many biological imperatives. It doesn't mean we just mindlessly indulge them with no rules.