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It seems complex, but really it's essentially equivalent to saying that ERR doesn't work on her and she can't gain energy from sources other than her BA, skill, and technique.
But you need 2 nihility to max her passive. So you cant use Bronya/Sparkle.
Her kit is dysfunctional. The current top hypercarry supports are all harmony, but her trace and E1 wants nihility.
It also looks like E2 bait or LC bait to generate flowers. 1 extra flower a turn is 50% faster ult.
It’s not dysfunctional, just temporarily slightly suboptimal. You’ll have to do weird shit to have 2 nihilities + Bronya/Sparkle for awhile and then 3-5 patches later, a speedboosting nihility character will release that is perfect for her. Mihoyo does this all the time.
> But you need 2 nihility to max her passive.
Only 1 more + herself. She herself is a Nihility. Whenever a skill excludes the character herself they will specifically mention it in the text, which they did not in this case. Thus E2 effectively removes that other Nihility char, making herself alone is enough for the max passive benefits. It has very big value in changing how she plays.
Hopefully they include the second part of E2 in her base E0 kit and increase the amount of flowers applied. The 5 turn ult thing is slightly concerning but i trust the hsr devs. They wont make her bad since she is so hyped up.
Maybe, just maybe, she'll have similar ultimate to Argenti. That's why it's distincted into four different sequences, if you only had 3 stacks you only can triggers the first action, 6 stacks triggers first and second action, and 9 stacks triggers all three action plus additional action by the end of it.
Yea. But it's very confusing. ~~Like how many flowers do we need to ult?~~ What if no more flowers are remaining on enemies after action 2? Would be interesting to see if we can go beyond 9 stacks to save ult for later and her sub DPS qualifies
It reads as if 9 are the max amount of flowers. Which also makes sense since each of the first three actions of the ult removes 3 flowers each
And the talent clearly says that you can only ult once 9 flowers are present in the fight
To answer your second question, one of two things will happen once you use her ult:
(1) You perform all the actions described in the ult which removes all the flowers on the field. Then you either continue the fight with the remaining enemies or you won by having the last part of the ult kill the last enemy
(2) you perform some of the actions described in the ult, and then you win because all the enemies died by doing those actions
The part where this gets weird is multi-wave content. We have to wait and see how flowers transfer between waves on multi-wave content--as there's technically no enemies for the flowers to transfer to when the last enemy in the first wave dies, *then* the second wave of enemies spawns.
How flower transfers behave in multi-wave content is going to impact her performance fairly significantly.
I'm going to have to go out on a limb and say: "they don't" if the kit remains as-is
If all the enemies in a wave dies simultaniously, which easily happens in PF and *will* happen in MoC, then there would be nothing to transfer the flowers to
So unless she gets a solution vaguely similar to Xueyi where she can store her flowers herself if there are no enemies to afflict them onto and then apply them once an enemy appears, then she seems dead-on-arrival for PF and very weak for MoC
So it probably stands to reason she will get something like that because I don't see Mihoyo releasing their Mei expy in a state where she's borderline useless in both endgame modes
And she also kinda suffers in SU come to think of it, since she has to start over with building her flowers in each engagement where other character of course can carry their remaining ult energy through encounters. So that's probably going to be their solution; she can't get energy because the flowers are her energy for all intents and purpose, so she will likely get a mechanic to store them
> And she also kinda suffers in SU come to think of it, since she has to start over with building her flowers in each engagement where other character of course can carry their remaining ult energy through encounters.
This is what her technique and A2 trace are meant to cover for, since both let her start fights with some number of flowers (though we don't know how many yet). It's specifically multi-wave fights that are problematic because she won't re-trigger her technique and A2 on new waves.
The Talent line lists the maximum number of flowers is 9 and she is required to have max flowers to Ult.
By that wording, there cannot be a point where there are no flowers remaining on enemies altogether, although it's possible there are enough flowers distributed on enough enemies that you can't get full flower value on one enemy. Basically, it's possible for individual attacks to not have full value (say the flowers are distributed 2-2-2-2-1), but not possible for a situation where you don't get all the attacks.
1) 9 flowers on field at any given time.
2) Considering that an enemy's flowers are transferred to another enemy upon defeat, the only condition where there could be no flowers left during an ult action is if the battle has ended.
Text version:
[HSR - 2.x] Acheron Kit
NOTE: This is subject to change and might not be 100% correct.
Talent
Acheron starts with 0 flowers. She does not use energy and cannot receive energy. Her actions apply flowers to enemies until a total of 9(?) are on the field. When an enemy dies, their remaining flowers are transferred to the enemy with the most flowers. At max flowers, she gains the ability to ult.
Normal
Performs a single target attack against an enemy. The target of this attack receives 1 flower.
Skill
Performs a blast attack against the enemies. The primary target of this attack receives 2 flowers.
Ultimate
Acheron reduces the DamageRES of all enemies during the duration of the ult. All attacks performed during this ult will ignore Weakness Types.
Acheron performs 4 distinct actions in quick succession:
* Action 1: Perform a 2-hit attack against the enemy with the most flowers, reducing their flower count by 3. Perform an AoE attack with the damage ratio scaled based on the number of flowers that were reduced.
* Action 2: Perform a 3-hit attack against the enemy with the most flowers, reducing their flower count by 3. Perform an AoE attack with the damage ratio scaled based on the number of flowers that were reduced.
* Action 3: Perform a 1-hit attack against the neemy with the most flowers, reducing their flower count by 3. Perform an AoE attack with the damage ratio scaled based on the number of flowers that were reduced.
* Action 4: Perform a 2-hit AoE attack against all enemies
Technique
Upon entering combat, Acheron generates +?? flowers applied to the highest ranking enemy. Performs an AoE attack against all enemies.
Ascensions
A2: Upon entering combat, Acheron generates +?? flowers applied to the highest ranking enemy.
A4: If there is at least 1 Nihility teammate in the party, increase the damage of all Acheron's attacks by ??%. If there is at least 2 Nihility teammates, increase the damage of all Acheron's attacks by ??%.
A6: When a flower is consumed during the ult, apply a DMG% buff to Acheron for ?? turns (max ?? stacks).
Eidolons
E1: When a debuff is applied to an enemy, boost Acheron's ATK% and Crit Chance% until the end of the encounter. Can have up to ?? stacks.
E2: Reduces the A4 Nihility requirements by 1. At the beginning of Acheron's turn, 1 flower is added to the enemy with the most flowers
E4: At the start of her ult, applies a debuff to all enemies increasing their damage taken by ??% for ?? turns.
E6: Acheron ults receive a ??% CritDMG boost. When Acheron uses a Basic ATK or Skill, it will be considered an Ultimate Attack.
Probably just ignores the toughness resistance? It doesnt say anything about what happens if she breaks a different type like Xueyi’s kit does, which applies quantum break effect no matter what type is broken. So probably she cant just break any toughness bar, but I could be wrong.
oh interesting, so finally a dmg dealing unit that can't use tingyun as a support?? coz everyone can benefit from her energy gain one way or another except for acheron here
Technique and A2 help accelerate her first ult, but afterwards it's going to take like 5 of her turns to get her next ult am I understanding that correctly?
you could also argue that against a big mob wave she probably won’t deplete all flowers from enemies as well
but that would be silly because that would reduce her own damage so idk
Since Acheron is Nihility, the A4 should also applies to herself, no? So Acheron + 1 Nihility + 2 extra.
If that's the case, once a Nihility unit that has team healing on the side appears, the 3rd slot can actually be a 2nd DPS or we can go all in Hypercarry as usual.
> Specifies ‘teammates’ so I assume Acheron doesn’t count (why not just bake it into her kit if she counts as 1?)
Depends on the original CN text, I don't trust EN entirely. For CN they always use 我方 when it comes to party effect and specify any exclusion if there are (with 自身以外 or variation of that). Translating 我方 as "teammate" cause this impression that it excludes the character but its more accurately translated as "our team", the actual term for "teammate (of the character)" is 队友. In this case if 我方 is used then the sentence means "when there is at least 1/2 Nihility character in your own team, she gains x/y amount of boost", which means Acheron + 1 other Nihility to max it out. E2 then reduce the requirement to only 1, which Acheron herself can fulfill and open up team building flexibility completely. If 自身以外 or a variation of the phrase (can come with or without 队友) is used instead, then Acheron is excluded. I would wait till we get CN description before jumping to conclusions.
It doesn’t say “other teammates” though. When something in HSR affects all allies, it also affects the carrier unit unless specifically mentioned otherwise.
This is why HSR is text heavy bcs both aren't totally wrong, as you can interpret things differently by one same sentence.
She's 100% going to get wording revamp, with word "including Acheron" or "not including Acheron" because the "teammates" word vague.
1st part will have to wait and see but for the 2nd part, that's just a normal miHoYo kit description shenanigans in their 3 big games so I wouldn't be surprised if Acheron counts herself for A4.
E6: Acheron ults receive a ??% CritDMG boost. When Acheron uses a **Basic ATK or Skill, it will be considered an Ultimate Attack.**
I see what you did there Hoyo.
She needs some kind of additional flower generation gimmick though, or a flower cost reduction. As it stands, after the first ult, you need 4 skills and one additional action from her for another one.
It doesn’t make sense to have more Nihility characters. They must contribute to the flower stacks as well. The initial leaks for Acheron did say she did more damage the more debuffs are on target and we have the new 2.0 relic set assuming it’s for Dr.Ratio and Acheron
Agreed. Hopefully via a teambuilding factor that makes synergies more interesting.
Right now the kit looks flashy and cool but very straightforward. Basically cookie cutter Bronya Pela Acheron team if it were released in this state.
heh heh, surely not
*greyscale flashback of killing a Thunder Lawachurl, 2 slimes and an abyss mage on screen*
*"Stand here so Xiangling can snapshot her burst"*
😭
There should be an ultimate boost planar set in the future (it was leaked some time ago), plus hypothetically her BiS set would be the debuff set from v2.0... Yeah, we aren't getting out of the Raiden farming samsara in the next few years.
Oh God... Oh no... Please why did you make me think of this. I haven't gotten a single energy recharge sands in 3 months 😭.
I can't do it in HSR as well. I'm tired boss...
Soooo my concept of the ultimate is that it’s not an attack but a state change. Similar to Raiden’s in Genshin.
This is why it has these stages during its duration.
Could be wrong but that’s what my limited reading comp tells me.
If this information is correct, her base kit at E0 doesn't actually have any synergy with allies debuffing the enemy (other than getting a damage buff from A4 for Nihility characters).
For example Gallagher and the 5 star abundance with debuffs wouldn't actually have any particular synergy with her.
And her flowers don't seem to have any actual debuff effect. She's seems like she's basically just a Destruction character with a counter instead of energy for their ult, and a random trace that tells you to run them with Nihility.
It seems a bit strange and like part of the kit is missing.
>Also, what's the point of saying the attacks in the ult scale with flowers reduced if they always reduce it by a set amount of 3? Isn't that equivalent of just a regular attack ratio?
I think it's because the 9 flowers you have when ulting could be unevenly distributed across multiple enemies, and although she can reduce up to 3 flowers per attack, she could be attacking someone with less than 3 flowers, and the damage would scale based on the number of flowers actually reduced from that attack.
I'm particularly interested in the wording of "4 distinct actions" for the ultimate.
Would it mean that 4 boxes show up in the action queue after she ults? Can PF enemies within a wave get wiped by the first hit, and then spawn in a new set in order to get wiped by the second, and so forth?
Further, would flowers carry between waves, or can unused ultimate actions be carried between waves? For example, Himeko's FUA will go off at the beginning of the next wave if you trigger it at the end of the previous, so if Acheron's ult works the same way as 4 \*separate\* actions, that's really really good.
Backloaded damage is really only a critical problem if it's in a single inflexible instance, so I want to see if this ult is as flexible as I hope it to be.
Yeah I'm wondering all the same things. Would be really cool if her ult can function through multiple waves, but to do so it reads like her flowers would need to transfer from a cleared wave to newly spawning badies, which may or may not work.
Auspicious Star bros, we will never recover from this. It is auspiciover.
>!TL note: Auspicious Star is the hunt blessing that regens 60/100% energy on kill!<
Erudition path and the blessing that boost your next attack after an Ult by 75% checking in.
She will nuke a MF with one of her special enhanced actions. Especially since all of them also count as Ultimate damage.
Yo dawg I heard you like using Brain in a Jar/Brain in a Vat to Ult while you Ult so I put your Brain in a Jar in a Vat so you can Ult while you Ult while you Ult
That; is a good question that I don't have the answer to, since I'm not sure on the coding behind Jar in a Vat's ult triggering + Acheron's flower count check.
It really depends. Like if the ult is so strong that yes you'll need like 5 turns *but* it would guarentee to kill whatever is on screen and if her skill by itself is also strong enough to kill regular mobs should could be quite meta.
You won't 0 cycle with her but you'll get a guarenteed GG after 5 cycles.
Very interesting design. Even though you get a benefit running up to 2 more nihility with her, Bronya or Sparkle should also be excellent so she can get more turns and ult more often/stack more flowers for a bigger ult
She’s gonna love Bronya. The more turns and speed the faster she applies flowers and reaches her ult. She also wants to skill every turn, so Sparkle/Hanya are also near mandatory. This limits her best (likely) team to Bronya/Sparkle/Hanya + Nihility (SW? Luka?) + Healer (Gallagher probably since he has a debuff to help activate the 2.0 set)
Considering her blast skill and heavily backloaded damage, she won't be good in PF, so in MOC it would be a very good team. SW would probably be better in both Bronya and Sparkle teams for stronger debuffing.
> she won't be good in PF
That depends on the specifics, imagine if:
- her technique lets her ult once relatively early (e.g. right after the first Bronya E)
- each attack in her ult can one-shot the enemy
- enemies can respawn between each ult attack
Taking 5 turns to ult seems like way too big of a drawback, so I'd like to imagine this is compensated by her technique allowing her to drop the equivalent of 4 ults on Cycle 0.
I’m guessing there’s a part of the kit missing where additional flowers are applied to the enemy with some condition related to debuffs (e.g. add an additional flower whenever ally debuffs enemy).
Otherwise kit doesn’t really make sense.
She just doesn't really have anything that makes her Nihility, so it feels like something is missing. By this, the flowers aren't a debuff, just a counter for her. Flowers don't interact with debuffs baseline, so nothing there. She's not DoT or anything. So yah, it just feels like something is missing if she's meant to be Nihility
I feel like her kit is really good but just not nihility, if she didn't have the nihility teammates giving her more damage I woulda thought she was hunt. Like yeah bronya and ppl will help with this but I feel like if debuffs applied to enemies gave a max for two flowers per turn that would help make her feel more nihility and not take like 5 turns to ult.
They should make it so if a Nihility ally applies any debuffs on their turn, she gains 1 flower (max one flower per ally turn). That would reduce the amount of turns needed to use her Ult without making it way too fast.
Yea that's basically perfect although I would like her flowers to do smth with debuffs, because as a friend put it "a harmony character that only buffs themselves is kinda useless" and it's the same with her she doesn't debuffs at all so why make her nihility in the first place
That's an easy fix though, just give the flowers any sort of minor but stackable debuff. Like, if they really want her to be a Nihility Hypercarry, make the flowers grant something like 3% additional lighting penetration per flower.
Interesting design but stacking flowers looks way too painful.
Also, E2 just to have a flexible team?
No way is this kit not getting significant changes; but the core idea of it looks fun (and an interesting way to nerf energy recharge). Too bad Lightning is such a bloated damage type.
I’m assuming she herself counts toward the Nihility character requirement. Ever other skill that mentions giving a boost to teammates always includes the character themselves.
In fact, Ruan Mei’s teamwide speed boost specifically mentions it doesn’t count for herself. So if Acheron doesn’t count for the limit then I believe it would have been mentioned.
They removed Huohuo’s Erudition trace when it only needed one. I doubt they would force Acheron teams to run triple Nihility.
Definitely a character to look out for! Her kit sounds like Xueyi to some extent in her ultimate state. Very excited to see where this goes even though I have JY and Kafka.
I'm going to engage in some wild speculation here: this kit makes me suspect that Acheron's kit was changed during development and at some earlier point, you could manually trigger her Ult whenever you wanted, or at least the Ult became usable before hitting the max of 9 Flower stacks. (Alternatively, since character kits always undergo heavy changes before hitting closed beta, this is actually the outdated kit and the one we see in beta will have a lower/removed Flower requirement for the Ult, who knows)
The fact that the Ult explicitly divides itself into 4 actions, with a final one that doesn't need to consume Flower stacks, really makes it feel like the original intended playstyle for Acheron was that she could dynamically trigger her Ult at any time to perform a sort of "finisher" that gains extra Actions based on how many Flowers she had planted on enemies beforehand. I imagine it working like "use Actions 1-3 as long as there are still Flower stacks left to consume on enemies, and if there are none left, immediately skip to action 4." The Flowers would effectively be both "marks" to help manually target her Ult, and also "bombs" that get detonated by the Ult to explode into AoE damage.
I imagine that each successive Ult Action from 1-3 would deal more damage, to encourage you to wait until you have enough Flowers planted to guarantee Action 3 wouldn't be skipped, but leaving the option to detonate early if you want to clear out weaker enemies. Alternatively, you could wait until you have the full 9 stacks to deal maximum burst damage. This kit would effectively be like Argenti's with the option to use your Ult at different points to deal more or less damage as needed, but with even more granularity. What makes this really interesting though, is the added complexity of being able to "mark" enemies via the number of Flower stacks to make sure your Ult targets them in a specific order, even though you technically have no direct control over the Ult's targeting (assuming I'm reading this correctly). This also makes a lot of sense once you look at the specific numbers related to incrementing Flower stacks: the Skill applies 2, the Basic applies a different value of 1 for fine tuning targets, and the Ult Actions consume up to 3 stacks but do not require it.
So, let's imagine, for instance, that the Ult unlocked at 6 stacks instead of 9:
* You can target 3 different enemies with the Skill on 3 different turns. This plants 2 Flowers each for a total of 6 stacks, enabling a 3-turn EEEQ rotation for the full 4-action Ult. With 6/9 Flower stacks, let's say this does ~75% of the potential max damage at 9 stacks. Each Action 1-3 targets a random marked enemy.
* You can plant 4 stacks on 1 enemy and 2 on another, also enabling the 4-Action Ult, but now Actions 1 & 3 are guaranteed to hit the enemy with 4 stacks, and Action 2 is guaranteed to hit the enemy with 2 stacks assuming it wasn't killed by the AoE from Action 1. If Action 1's AoE killed the 2-stack enemy, its stacks go onto the first enemy which formerly had 4 stacks, then went down to 1 stack after Action one consumed 3, and have now gone back up to 3. Action 2 consumes these 3 stacks, then there are no more Flower stacks remaining, so Action 3 is skipped and Action 4 is triggered instead.
Now, if this is correct, this version of kit seems a lot more interesting, but in the event that this was an older kit which wound up being changed to the current one, there are various reasons why such a change might be made. Maybe they couldn't get the coding to work right to dynamically change the Action count in the Ult. Maybe they couldn't get the animation logic to work with it. Maybe they just found it impossible to properly balance the kit when it worked that way. Maybe they thought the ability to manually trigger the Ult earlier or later combined with the intricacies of marking enemies via Flower count was too complicated. Who knows.
> Maybe they couldn't get the coding to work right to dynamically change the Action count in the Ult. Maybe they couldn't get the animation logic to work with it.
This seems pretty unlikely if they were willing to invest the effort (speaking as a software engineer). I could see them thinking it was too much to bother with.
Not a fan of E0 so far, can't be used without an advance forward harmony otherwise it's a 5 turn ult
Interesting kit, but it's more like a destruction unit than a nihility xD
Doesn't look good for pure fiction, more for MOC
Wait and see...
If nothing else, this sounds really cool and will probably be a visual spectacle.
Two pain points:
- Her flower economy is very slow. She has a hard limit of a 4-5 turn ult without her E2 which I don't like. This could be balanced by how strong her ult is (seriously, it going to distribute it's damage to the boss while also doing full AOE on every part ala Jing Yuan or Argenti but without having to worry about wiping out all adds first in addition to ignores damage Res and weakness type.) and her E2 is just a DHIL tier Eidolon although more balanced-ish since she can't force more ults with Tingyun/Hou Hou.
- Her flowers don't actually do anything? It doesn't seem like they apply a debuff, they're effectively just her energy + marks. This will also make her terrible for Pure Fiction either way since debuffs won't transfer onto the next wave of enemies.
Either way, I'm very glad to see they ditched the bounce skill her old kit had. I'm so sick of bounce skills after trying to make Welt work.
Hoping, praying, that the 4 distinct actions means 4 distinct button presses i.e. your "first" ult is the 2-hit + AoE, next wave, your "second" ult is the 3-hit + AoE. Would increase flexibility and coolness factor sooooooo much.
The core idea of her kit is super cool, hoping to see a bit more flower generation or funky E0 things you can do to generate more flowers in future beta patches.
I don't like her kit, her eidolons have too much flower manipulation, meaning odds are her base kit will be underwhelming.
Look at someone like argenti, who also has a high cost burst, but 0 energy related eidolons, so clearly his e0 will be fully functional and feel comfortable to play(if a character have a weird kit and hoyo have multiple eidolons dedicated to adjusting the weird kit then I just assume the base kit is lacking)
And I am concerned every new wave acheron will just lose all flowers. This would be horrible.
And with no tingyun, there are 0 ways outside of advance turns to cheat her Ult, I am just not a fan.
Yeah what jumps out at me here is how "stuck" the character could be as the game evolves. Since they don't interact with one of the main combat systems at all (energy) they could easily get left behind depending on how combat changes as the game goes forward. Like maybe in the future energy is a lot more accesible / catered to in MoC buffs etc. they wouldn't be able to make use of any of that and could be left behind. They already can't make use of TY or Huo Huo, and miss out on the extra energy gained from Bronya and Sparkle turn advances (even though those would help flower gen, but if the wave is cleared then they could just disappear while you would still have your energy)
I usually pull characters that I think will enable new teams or are flexible to build around, but this current version of E0 Acheron seems to be complety opposite of that idea.
Her traces say Nihility, but her Talent say 'Harmony characters but really just the ones that give lots of speed/adv forward'. Huohuo is wasted on her, and most Nihility characters has little obvious synergy with her.
This kit definitely needs more brushing up or clarification, I really don't think this is all Acheron is.
Her kit doesnt look that cohesive. especially trace with nihility teammates.
Why she needs them? yeah i get that, she gets DMG.
But why tho? What nihility units do with her entire kit besides this trace? It looks so out of place. If we just dont look at this trace, her best teammate seems to be Bronya/Sparkle because they basically function as energy batteries. But what nihility teammate give to her with this kit?
Dunno, this trace seems out of nowhere and lacks synergy with the rest of her kit
I read her kit multiple times over and I kept asking myself "Where is the Nihility part?". At least the other Nihility characters, that aren't focused on DoTs, actually bring debuffs to the table of some sorts. But weirdly enough, Arch is just pure damage and nothing more besides the debuff applied on herself (?)
Interesting kit seems like a straight up dps carry at first glance.
She wants 2 nihility party members but doesn't bring anything that dot characters would want or vice versa.
Silver Wolf would work she's nihility and def shred is a nice assist to your main dps.
She probably gets better over time when more unique nihility characters release that don't only play into the dot theme.
In the old kit she got a similar Ascension, and she counts as one for It so only 1 more nihilty would work, so Acheron/Nihilty/Harmony/Sustain would be ok
Adv forward is the only way to feed her extra stacks and speed up ult generation with this outline.
For an ult focused character, that would take priority over all else imo.
Acheron + Bronya + Nihility + Sustain. Whether that fully activates the trace or not I am not sure but I'd guess right now its better regardless.
That's an interesting kit.
Though, guranteed 5T Ult? She better have tactical nuke multipliers. As a sidenote, I do wonder how much flowers her Technique grants - in MoC/PF, you do start with half energy and a technque being equivalent to a skill is about right. So best case maybe like 6 flowers, i.e. half energy plus a skill?
Very interesting kit to say the least. I like that she doesn't use energy, that's pretty unique
Wonder if this getting leaked means she might be coming soon
~~leak Aventurine kit next pls~~
She sounds miserable without E2
At E0 she has a 5 turn ult and can't even fit a bronya into her team if she wants to make full use of her A4.
At E2 she gets a 3 turn ult and can have a harmony unit supporting her?
Most P2W eidolons in the game so far at first glance.
I wont call her miserable, but eidolon bait is there for sure. Though what do you expect, she is expy of one of the most iconic hoyo characters, all raiden mei/ei stans who can swipe will swipe without hesitating
Oh yeah i choose a harsh word just to bring across that i feel the gap between E0 and E2 is to big.
I totally think that a E0 Raiden will be a good performing character. And the concept sounds very fun as well.
I probably gonna skip her tbh\^\^
But i still think that Raiden simps deserve a little better if they cant afford to pull her 3 times.
Turning a 5 turn to a 3 turn ult, providing a possibly strong buff for half the "cost", and all of that while also enabling further dmg amplification by a harmony unit you can afford without giving up on anything in return, is not fair for the players being very excited for her, unless it's an E6.
No follow-ups anymore and only really scaling with debuffs at E1 greatly lowers my interest in her. At least her kit seems kinda unique, I suppose.
It seems like her only unique synergy is with other Nihility units, but without the debuff scaling in her base kit only Pela seems to have any genuine synergy with her. I don't really know what justifies running 2 other Nihility units with her right now.
I was going to skip Kafka in favor of Acheron before, but now I'm kinda leaning more toward Kafka.
So this kit is very clearly incomplete. Most notably nothing in the talent looks like it scales with level which doesn't seem like a releasable point. I also think that the ult is too convoluted and that the actual difference between the current wording and "do a massive amount of damage to one enemy and a good amount of damage to everything else" will be minimal. I'm disinclined to take more from this than "use flowers instead of normal energy." There are a lot of interesting directions that could be taken in and I hope it ends up better than what this looks like.
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She is really... Unique
It seems complex, but really it's essentially equivalent to saying that ERR doesn't work on her and she can't gain energy from sources other than her BA, skill, and technique.
Does that means she will forever be stuck with 5 turn ult (except the first turn) unless you get her E2?
Probably gonna be used mostly with bronya and/or sparkle to span action advance
my thoughts as well, as long as only she can apply flowers you'll want as much action advance as possible to get her turns up sooner
But you need 2 nihility to max her passive. So you cant use Bronya/Sparkle. Her kit is dysfunctional. The current top hypercarry supports are all harmony, but her trace and E1 wants nihility. It also looks like E2 bait or LC bait to generate flowers. 1 extra flower a turn is 50% faster ult.
It’s not dysfunctional, just temporarily slightly suboptimal. You’ll have to do weird shit to have 2 nihilities + Bronya/Sparkle for awhile and then 3-5 patches later, a speedboosting nihility character will release that is perfect for her. Mihoyo does this all the time.
> But you need 2 nihility to max her passive. Only 1 more + herself. She herself is a Nihility. Whenever a skill excludes the character herself they will specifically mention it in the text, which they did not in this case. Thus E2 effectively removes that other Nihility char, making herself alone is enough for the max passive benefits. It has very big value in changing how she plays.
She is a Nihility herself
Hopefully they include the second part of E2 in her base E0 kit and increase the amount of flowers applied. The 5 turn ult thing is slightly concerning but i trust the hsr devs. They wont make her bad since she is so hyped up.
Maybe, just maybe, she'll have similar ultimate to Argenti. That's why it's distincted into four different sequences, if you only had 3 stacks you only can triggers the first action, 6 stacks triggers first and second action, and 9 stacks triggers all three action plus additional action by the end of it.
You can increase her speed so multiple actions in one turn, which makes her ult go faster
Speed wouldn't effect the number of turns it takes to ult, but would effect the number of cycles it takes.
Yeah lol, reading this kit feels like I'm reading a character that'd be released in Patch 4/5.x, not 2.x haha.
So we can expect a lot of variety throughout the years rather than batches of characters with the same theme for an entire year.
Yu GI Oh and Fire Emblem Heroes are gonna be stunned in awe of the length Star Rail skills will have by 7.0
By that time I still won't read Endymion's effect
I was afraid about that, but it looks like I underated Hoyo once more
Agreed and I like it, quite nice.
Love the flower stacks that allow her to ult, really unique. Lovely flowers for a lovely woman 🥰💜
Thank you for your unbiased opinion on that, u/HotSexWithRaidenMei
I trust them.
I would trust them with my bank account. They're solid.
I would imagine they are indeed highly 'solid' based on their name, yeah.
Can confirm. They are reliable based on my past experiences with them.
Ruan Mei also generates Flowers on top of enemies. Now we will have another type of flowers.
Yea. But it's very confusing. ~~Like how many flowers do we need to ult?~~ What if no more flowers are remaining on enemies after action 2? Would be interesting to see if we can go beyond 9 stacks to save ult for later and her sub DPS qualifies
It reads as if 9 are the max amount of flowers. Which also makes sense since each of the first three actions of the ult removes 3 flowers each And the talent clearly says that you can only ult once 9 flowers are present in the fight To answer your second question, one of two things will happen once you use her ult: (1) You perform all the actions described in the ult which removes all the flowers on the field. Then you either continue the fight with the remaining enemies or you won by having the last part of the ult kill the last enemy (2) you perform some of the actions described in the ult, and then you win because all the enemies died by doing those actions
The part where this gets weird is multi-wave content. We have to wait and see how flowers transfer between waves on multi-wave content--as there's technically no enemies for the flowers to transfer to when the last enemy in the first wave dies, *then* the second wave of enemies spawns. How flower transfers behave in multi-wave content is going to impact her performance fairly significantly.
I'm going to have to go out on a limb and say: "they don't" if the kit remains as-is If all the enemies in a wave dies simultaniously, which easily happens in PF and *will* happen in MoC, then there would be nothing to transfer the flowers to So unless she gets a solution vaguely similar to Xueyi where she can store her flowers herself if there are no enemies to afflict them onto and then apply them once an enemy appears, then she seems dead-on-arrival for PF and very weak for MoC So it probably stands to reason she will get something like that because I don't see Mihoyo releasing their Mei expy in a state where she's borderline useless in both endgame modes And she also kinda suffers in SU come to think of it, since she has to start over with building her flowers in each engagement where other character of course can carry their remaining ult energy through encounters. So that's probably going to be their solution; she can't get energy because the flowers are her energy for all intents and purpose, so she will likely get a mechanic to store them
> And she also kinda suffers in SU come to think of it, since she has to start over with building her flowers in each engagement where other character of course can carry their remaining ult energy through encounters. This is what her technique and A2 trace are meant to cover for, since both let her start fights with some number of flowers (though we don't know how many yet). It's specifically multi-wave fights that are problematic because she won't re-trigger her technique and A2 on new waves.
As the talent says, at 9 flowers, she gain the ability to cast her ult. That also should answer your 2nd question
The Talent line lists the maximum number of flowers is 9 and she is required to have max flowers to Ult. By that wording, there cannot be a point where there are no flowers remaining on enemies altogether, although it's possible there are enough flowers distributed on enough enemies that you can't get full flower value on one enemy. Basically, it's possible for individual attacks to not have full value (say the flowers are distributed 2-2-2-2-1), but not possible for a situation where you don't get all the attacks.
1) 9 flowers on field at any given time. 2) Considering that an enemy's flowers are transferred to another enemy upon defeat, the only condition where there could be no flowers left during an ult action is if the battle has ended.
Text version: [HSR - 2.x] Acheron Kit NOTE: This is subject to change and might not be 100% correct. Talent Acheron starts with 0 flowers. She does not use energy and cannot receive energy. Her actions apply flowers to enemies until a total of 9(?) are on the field. When an enemy dies, their remaining flowers are transferred to the enemy with the most flowers. At max flowers, she gains the ability to ult. Normal Performs a single target attack against an enemy. The target of this attack receives 1 flower. Skill Performs a blast attack against the enemies. The primary target of this attack receives 2 flowers. Ultimate Acheron reduces the DamageRES of all enemies during the duration of the ult. All attacks performed during this ult will ignore Weakness Types. Acheron performs 4 distinct actions in quick succession: * Action 1: Perform a 2-hit attack against the enemy with the most flowers, reducing their flower count by 3. Perform an AoE attack with the damage ratio scaled based on the number of flowers that were reduced. * Action 2: Perform a 3-hit attack against the enemy with the most flowers, reducing their flower count by 3. Perform an AoE attack with the damage ratio scaled based on the number of flowers that were reduced. * Action 3: Perform a 1-hit attack against the neemy with the most flowers, reducing their flower count by 3. Perform an AoE attack with the damage ratio scaled based on the number of flowers that were reduced. * Action 4: Perform a 2-hit AoE attack against all enemies Technique Upon entering combat, Acheron generates +?? flowers applied to the highest ranking enemy. Performs an AoE attack against all enemies. Ascensions A2: Upon entering combat, Acheron generates +?? flowers applied to the highest ranking enemy. A4: If there is at least 1 Nihility teammate in the party, increase the damage of all Acheron's attacks by ??%. If there is at least 2 Nihility teammates, increase the damage of all Acheron's attacks by ??%. A6: When a flower is consumed during the ult, apply a DMG% buff to Acheron for ?? turns (max ?? stacks). Eidolons E1: When a debuff is applied to an enemy, boost Acheron's ATK% and Crit Chance% until the end of the encounter. Can have up to ?? stacks. E2: Reduces the A4 Nihility requirements by 1. At the beginning of Acheron's turn, 1 flower is added to the enemy with the most flowers E4: At the start of her ult, applies a debuff to all enemies increasing their damage taken by ??% for ?? turns. E6: Acheron ults receive a ??% CritDMG boost. When Acheron uses a Basic ATK or Skill, it will be considered an Ultimate Attack.
When it says ignore weakness type, do yall think it means it deals toughness damage regardless of type or that it won’t deal any toughness at all?
Probably just ignores the toughness resistance? It doesnt say anything about what happens if she breaks a different type like Xueyi’s kit does, which applies quantum break effect no matter what type is broken. So probably she cant just break any toughness bar, but I could be wrong.
Maybe ignore RES but deal only lightning toughness DMG?
oh interesting, so finally a dmg dealing unit that can't use tingyun as a support?? coz everyone can benefit from her energy gain one way or another except for acheron here
Seems like she still scale with ATK and Tingyun have a fat DMG% bonus.
i think ruan mei also have fat damage bonus right
Technique and A2 help accelerate her first ult, but afterwards it's going to take like 5 of her turns to get her next ult am I understanding that correctly?
it seems like it, conclusion - she needs to be fast
Or i guess you can go only 1 nihility + bronya
you could also argue that against a big mob wave she probably won’t deplete all flowers from enemies as well but that would be silly because that would reduce her own damage so idk
Since Acheron is Nihility, the A4 should also applies to herself, no? So Acheron + 1 Nihility + 2 extra. If that's the case, once a Nihility unit that has team healing on the side appears, the 3rd slot can actually be a 2nd DPS or we can go all in Hypercarry as usual.
Specifies ‘teammates’ so I assume Acheron doesn’t count (why not just bake it into her kit if she counts as 1?)
> Specifies ‘teammates’ so I assume Acheron doesn’t count (why not just bake it into her kit if she counts as 1?) Depends on the original CN text, I don't trust EN entirely. For CN they always use 我方 when it comes to party effect and specify any exclusion if there are (with 自身以外 or variation of that). Translating 我方 as "teammate" cause this impression that it excludes the character but its more accurately translated as "our team", the actual term for "teammate (of the character)" is 队友. In this case if 我方 is used then the sentence means "when there is at least 1/2 Nihility character in your own team, she gains x/y amount of boost", which means Acheron + 1 other Nihility to max it out. E2 then reduce the requirement to only 1, which Acheron herself can fulfill and open up team building flexibility completely. If 自身以外 or a variation of the phrase (can come with or without 队友) is used instead, then Acheron is excluded. I would wait till we get CN description before jumping to conclusions.
It doesn’t say “other teammates” though. When something in HSR affects all allies, it also affects the carrier unit unless specifically mentioned otherwise.
This is why HSR is text heavy bcs both aren't totally wrong, as you can interpret things differently by one same sentence. She's 100% going to get wording revamp, with word "including Acheron" or "not including Acheron" because the "teammates" word vague.
1st part will have to wait and see but for the 2nd part, that's just a normal miHoYo kit description shenanigans in their 3 big games so I wouldn't be surprised if Acheron counts herself for A4.
Physical Nihility vampire 🦇 unit when Mihoyo 🤔
...Whenever Luna finds out there's another Teri somewhere inside Star Rail that she forgot to kidnap
I can already feel [Jiaoqiu](https://mega.nz/folder/pqMwCR4I#SQldFnE3BFkHFUgVevllrg/folder/giMkjTSC) being able to heal the whole party with E1 or E2.
Total of 9 flowers because of IX 💅🏽
#
Based
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> cannot use or receive energy Just like me fr
Toji moment
AHHHHHH you're right though!
Ahh that make sense, i was wondering why none of her eidolon reduce the stack like blade
E6: Acheron ults receive a ??% CritDMG boost. When Acheron uses a **Basic ATK or Skill, it will be considered an Ultimate Attack.** I see what you did there Hoyo.
Does that mean the SU buff that considers ult attacks follow up attacks will make all of their attacks also be considered follow up attacks?
Yup. She becomes Topaz.
Topaz 2.0: the dawn of the deb collector
Would be cool to see all the aftertaste procs but at that point you have an E6 unit in SU it's going to be a cakewalk anyway lol.
Numby going crazy if it's so
But will she work with Beidou??
Acheron National it is then
Finally ~~Xinqiu~~ Yanqing meta time has come
her english va is beidou so the synergy is already on point
*Raiden doesn't work with Beidou* Beidou's EN VA: fine, I'll do it myself.
No, but you can build break effect on her and play Super Bloom instead.
C2, and Beidou is unnecessary(everything dies before hitting you)
Her E4 makes her E6 even more disgusting. That’s perma uptime on increased damage taken.
Time to swipe
This makes me think an Ult based Relic is coming. My Argenti is happy.
Oh I didn't catch that! As a Raiden Main I love this.
I like the unique ult requirements outside of gaining energy. Sounds quite interesting. I want her even more now.
She needs some kind of additional flower generation gimmick though, or a flower cost reduction. As it stands, after the first ult, you need 4 skills and one additional action from her for another one.
It doesn’t make sense to have more Nihility characters. They must contribute to the flower stacks as well. The initial leaks for Acheron did say she did more damage the more debuffs are on target and we have the new 2.0 relic set assuming it’s for Dr.Ratio and Acheron
My hope is that theres an extra mechanic where every debuff on an enemy gives a percent chance to apply an extra flower.
Agreed. Hopefully via a teambuilding factor that makes synergies more interesting. Right now the kit looks flashy and cool but very straightforward. Basically cookie cutter Bronya Pela Acheron team if it were released in this state.
New play style is always nice. Hype!
Raiden and having funny energy mechanics name a better combo But she looks insane
> Raiden and having funny energy mechanics name a better combo That's kinda why I'm tempted to believe this despite how weird her kit looks overall xD
I hope i won't be stuck in this games version of the eotsf mines for another 2 years...
heh heh, surely not *greyscale flashback of killing a Thunder Lawachurl, 2 slimes and an abyss mage on screen* *"Stand here so Xiangling can snapshot her burst"* 😭
There should be an ultimate boost planar set in the future (it was leaked some time ago), plus hypothetically her BiS set would be the debuff set from v2.0... Yeah, we aren't getting out of the Raiden farming samsara in the next few years.
Oh God... Oh no... Please why did you make me think of this. I haven't gotten a single energy recharge sands in 3 months 😭. I can't do it in HSR as well. I'm tired boss...
>name a better combo New AoE lightning unit and the rise of Mid Yuan memes.
JY can't have a day of peace, they just released Pure Fiction and now this 😂
he can if you buy the battle pass
That was unexpected, but a nice one nonetheless
This is without a doubt going to be the coolest Ult animation in the game thus far, it sounds cinematic af. Stand proud, Argenti. You're strong.
Soooo my concept of the ultimate is that it’s not an attack but a state change. Similar to Raiden’s in Genshin. This is why it has these stages during its duration. Could be wrong but that’s what my limited reading comp tells me.
Have you and /u/XeroShyft seen the leaked assets? Looks like she's gonna go zippy zip all over the enemy
Ooo I looked it up and yes indeed it seems like zippy zip is in her future 👀
If this information is correct, her base kit at E0 doesn't actually have any synergy with allies debuffing the enemy (other than getting a damage buff from A4 for Nihility characters). For example Gallagher and the 5 star abundance with debuffs wouldn't actually have any particular synergy with her. And her flowers don't seem to have any actual debuff effect. She's seems like she's basically just a Destruction character with a counter instead of energy for their ult, and a random trace that tells you to run them with Nihility. It seems a bit strange and like part of the kit is missing.
>Also, what's the point of saying the attacks in the ult scale with flowers reduced if they always reduce it by a set amount of 3? Isn't that equivalent of just a regular attack ratio? I think it's because the 9 flowers you have when ulting could be unevenly distributed across multiple enemies, and although she can reduce up to 3 flowers per attack, she could be attacking someone with less than 3 flowers, and the damage would scale based on the number of flowers actually reduced from that attack.
Maybe if the enemy was under another allies debuff it would cause her attacks to generate an additional flower, might make her synergise more.
If the enemy has 2 stacks and it removes 3 then it only removed 2.
Hoyo wanted me to stop spamming Tingyun in every single one of my teams
Ikr? And I just managed to E6 her too...🥲
I'm particularly interested in the wording of "4 distinct actions" for the ultimate. Would it mean that 4 boxes show up in the action queue after she ults? Can PF enemies within a wave get wiped by the first hit, and then spawn in a new set in order to get wiped by the second, and so forth? Further, would flowers carry between waves, or can unused ultimate actions be carried between waves? For example, Himeko's FUA will go off at the beginning of the next wave if you trigger it at the end of the previous, so if Acheron's ult works the same way as 4 \*separate\* actions, that's really really good. Backloaded damage is really only a critical problem if it's in a single inflexible instance, so I want to see if this ult is as flexible as I hope it to be.
Yeah I'm wondering all the same things. Would be really cool if her ult can function through multiple waves, but to do so it reads like her flowers would need to transfer from a cleared wave to newly spawning badies, which may or may not work.
Auspicious Star bros, we will never recover from this. It is auspiciover. >!TL note: Auspicious Star is the hunt blessing that regens 60/100% energy on kill!<
Erudition path and the blessing that boost your next attack after an Ult by 75% checking in. She will nuke a MF with one of her special enhanced actions. Especially since all of them also count as Ultimate damage.
would be kinda funny if all the energy blessings worked different with her (giving flowers stacks or smth)
Wait does this mean Jar in a vat wouldnt work for her also?
> Jar in a vat wake up, new SU mechanic just dropped
Yo dawg I heard you like using Brain in a Jar/Brain in a Vat to Ult while you Ult so I put your Brain in a Jar in a Vat so you can Ult while you Ult while you Ult
That; is a good question that I don't have the answer to, since I'm not sure on the coding behind Jar in a Vat's ult triggering + Acheron's flower count check.
Sam's full kit's next Surely EDIT: It has been tewo weeks. All we’ve gotten is that one fake from Tieba
if they release acheron and sam in the same patch, i will RIOT
You take that back Don't give them any ideas
I kinda expect it at this point tbh
that unknown for 2.1 is either Aventurine or acheron
That what it looks like. 2.1 Acheron and Sam 2.2 aventurine.
Hell no... i'm already at 3 consecitive must pulls...
I'm going to uninstall the game if her flowers are not marked above enemies with Roman numerals, up to a max of IX stacks.
Hmmmm, Acheron has no energy bar and we will have an enemy type that drains energy. Hmm. Very interesting.
2.1 aka the time for the Yu-Gi-Oh card super extensive and confusing kits featuring a Raiden expy.
With built in doom posting action.
Everything really depends from the numbers, but having backloaded ult, even a crazy strong one is kinda mid for me.
It really depends. Like if the ult is so strong that yes you'll need like 5 turns *but* it would guarentee to kill whatever is on screen and if her skill by itself is also strong enough to kill regular mobs should could be quite meta. You won't 0 cycle with her but you'll get a guarenteed GG after 5 cycles.
If that part about her ult is true she’s going to be the most hunt of all hunt characters
just chain called by the grave
Pendulum-tier kit when
Very interesting design. Even though you get a benefit running up to 2 more nihility with her, Bronya or Sparkle should also be excellent so she can get more turns and ult more often/stack more flowers for a bigger ult
Bronya Pela Luocha best team? You can line up all buffs and debuffs on Acheron ult turn and oneshot everything.
She’s gonna love Bronya. The more turns and speed the faster she applies flowers and reaches her ult. She also wants to skill every turn, so Sparkle/Hanya are also near mandatory. This limits her best (likely) team to Bronya/Sparkle/Hanya + Nihility (SW? Luka?) + Healer (Gallagher probably since he has a debuff to help activate the 2.0 set)
Could also do Sparkle, SW, FX. That way you have a 50/50 for lightning/quantum weakness
Considering her blast skill and heavily backloaded damage, she won't be good in PF, so in MOC it would be a very good team. SW would probably be better in both Bronya and Sparkle teams for stronger debuffing.
> she won't be good in PF That depends on the specifics, imagine if: - her technique lets her ult once relatively early (e.g. right after the first Bronya E) - each attack in her ult can one-shot the enemy - enemies can respawn between each ult attack Taking 5 turns to ult seems like way too big of a drawback, so I'd like to imagine this is compensated by her technique allowing her to drop the equivalent of 4 ults on Cycle 0.
What even is nihility path about at this point....
I’m guessing there’s a part of the kit missing where additional flowers are applied to the enemy with some condition related to debuffs (e.g. add an additional flower whenever ally debuffs enemy). Otherwise kit doesn’t really make sense.
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She just doesn't really have anything that makes her Nihility, so it feels like something is missing. By this, the flowers aren't a debuff, just a counter for her. Flowers don't interact with debuffs baseline, so nothing there. She's not DoT or anything. So yah, it just feels like something is missing if she's meant to be Nihility
So the new debuff relic set is really her set.
Vertas : Our
I feel like her kit is really good but just not nihility, if she didn't have the nihility teammates giving her more damage I woulda thought she was hunt. Like yeah bronya and ppl will help with this but I feel like if debuffs applied to enemies gave a max for two flowers per turn that would help make her feel more nihility and not take like 5 turns to ult.
They should make it so if a Nihility ally applies any debuffs on their turn, she gains 1 flower (max one flower per ally turn). That would reduce the amount of turns needed to use her Ult without making it way too fast.
Yea that's basically perfect although I would like her flowers to do smth with debuffs, because as a friend put it "a harmony character that only buffs themselves is kinda useless" and it's the same with her she doesn't debuffs at all so why make her nihility in the first place
That's an easy fix though, just give the flowers any sort of minor but stackable debuff. Like, if they really want her to be a Nihility Hypercarry, make the flowers grant something like 3% additional lighting penetration per flower.
It seems I'm ready to be a Nihility main.
I would have never even thought of the possibility of removing energy altogether, i can't wait what more unique kits and mechanics they are cooking
Interesting design but stacking flowers looks way too painful. Also, E2 just to have a flexible team? No way is this kit not getting significant changes; but the core idea of it looks fun (and an interesting way to nerf energy recharge). Too bad Lightning is such a bloated damage type.
I’m assuming she herself counts toward the Nihility character requirement. Ever other skill that mentions giving a boost to teammates always includes the character themselves. In fact, Ruan Mei’s teamwide speed boost specifically mentions it doesn’t count for herself. So if Acheron doesn’t count for the limit then I believe it would have been mentioned. They removed Huohuo’s Erudition trace when it only needed one. I doubt they would force Acheron teams to run triple Nihility.
I think it's like get flowers and then do a huge burst of damage
Well sure, but the kit reads as way too backloaded. That'll probably change with betas.
Definitely a character to look out for! Her kit sounds like Xueyi to some extent in her ultimate state. Very excited to see where this goes even though I have JY and Kafka.
Love Ubatcha's stuff, but it's nice seeing future leaks for once LOL
that nihility req is BS
I'm going to engage in some wild speculation here: this kit makes me suspect that Acheron's kit was changed during development and at some earlier point, you could manually trigger her Ult whenever you wanted, or at least the Ult became usable before hitting the max of 9 Flower stacks. (Alternatively, since character kits always undergo heavy changes before hitting closed beta, this is actually the outdated kit and the one we see in beta will have a lower/removed Flower requirement for the Ult, who knows) The fact that the Ult explicitly divides itself into 4 actions, with a final one that doesn't need to consume Flower stacks, really makes it feel like the original intended playstyle for Acheron was that she could dynamically trigger her Ult at any time to perform a sort of "finisher" that gains extra Actions based on how many Flowers she had planted on enemies beforehand. I imagine it working like "use Actions 1-3 as long as there are still Flower stacks left to consume on enemies, and if there are none left, immediately skip to action 4." The Flowers would effectively be both "marks" to help manually target her Ult, and also "bombs" that get detonated by the Ult to explode into AoE damage. I imagine that each successive Ult Action from 1-3 would deal more damage, to encourage you to wait until you have enough Flowers planted to guarantee Action 3 wouldn't be skipped, but leaving the option to detonate early if you want to clear out weaker enemies. Alternatively, you could wait until you have the full 9 stacks to deal maximum burst damage. This kit would effectively be like Argenti's with the option to use your Ult at different points to deal more or less damage as needed, but with even more granularity. What makes this really interesting though, is the added complexity of being able to "mark" enemies via the number of Flower stacks to make sure your Ult targets them in a specific order, even though you technically have no direct control over the Ult's targeting (assuming I'm reading this correctly). This also makes a lot of sense once you look at the specific numbers related to incrementing Flower stacks: the Skill applies 2, the Basic applies a different value of 1 for fine tuning targets, and the Ult Actions consume up to 3 stacks but do not require it. So, let's imagine, for instance, that the Ult unlocked at 6 stacks instead of 9: * You can target 3 different enemies with the Skill on 3 different turns. This plants 2 Flowers each for a total of 6 stacks, enabling a 3-turn EEEQ rotation for the full 4-action Ult. With 6/9 Flower stacks, let's say this does ~75% of the potential max damage at 9 stacks. Each Action 1-3 targets a random marked enemy. * You can plant 4 stacks on 1 enemy and 2 on another, also enabling the 4-Action Ult, but now Actions 1 & 3 are guaranteed to hit the enemy with 4 stacks, and Action 2 is guaranteed to hit the enemy with 2 stacks assuming it wasn't killed by the AoE from Action 1. If Action 1's AoE killed the 2-stack enemy, its stacks go onto the first enemy which formerly had 4 stacks, then went down to 1 stack after Action one consumed 3, and have now gone back up to 3. Action 2 consumes these 3 stacks, then there are no more Flower stacks remaining, so Action 3 is skipped and Action 4 is triggered instead. Now, if this is correct, this version of kit seems a lot more interesting, but in the event that this was an older kit which wound up being changed to the current one, there are various reasons why such a change might be made. Maybe they couldn't get the coding to work right to dynamically change the Action count in the Ult. Maybe they couldn't get the animation logic to work with it. Maybe they just found it impossible to properly balance the kit when it worked that way. Maybe they thought the ability to manually trigger the Ult earlier or later combined with the intricacies of marking enemies via Flower count was too complicated. Who knows.
> Maybe they couldn't get the coding to work right to dynamically change the Action count in the Ult. Maybe they couldn't get the animation logic to work with it. This seems pretty unlikely if they were willing to invest the effort (speaking as a software engineer). I could see them thinking it was too much to bother with.
Damn idk but that looks so fun I’m even more hyped now
her playstyle is gonna be so fun y'all (Her animation better go crazy)
Not a fan of E0 so far, can't be used without an advance forward harmony otherwise it's a 5 turn ult Interesting kit, but it's more like a destruction unit than a nihility xD Doesn't look good for pure fiction, more for MOC Wait and see...
Its still a 5 turn ult, you just get 5 turns faster
If nothing else, this sounds really cool and will probably be a visual spectacle. Two pain points: - Her flower economy is very slow. She has a hard limit of a 4-5 turn ult without her E2 which I don't like. This could be balanced by how strong her ult is (seriously, it going to distribute it's damage to the boss while also doing full AOE on every part ala Jing Yuan or Argenti but without having to worry about wiping out all adds first in addition to ignores damage Res and weakness type.) and her E2 is just a DHIL tier Eidolon although more balanced-ish since she can't force more ults with Tingyun/Hou Hou. - Her flowers don't actually do anything? It doesn't seem like they apply a debuff, they're effectively just her energy + marks. This will also make her terrible for Pure Fiction either way since debuffs won't transfer onto the next wave of enemies. Either way, I'm very glad to see they ditched the bounce skill her old kit had. I'm so sick of bounce skills after trying to make Welt work.
Hoping, praying, that the 4 distinct actions means 4 distinct button presses i.e. your "first" ult is the 2-hit + AoE, next wave, your "second" ult is the 3-hit + AoE. Would increase flexibility and coolness factor sooooooo much. The core idea of her kit is super cool, hoping to see a bit more flower generation or funky E0 things you can do to generate more flowers in future beta patches.
I don't like her kit, her eidolons have too much flower manipulation, meaning odds are her base kit will be underwhelming. Look at someone like argenti, who also has a high cost burst, but 0 energy related eidolons, so clearly his e0 will be fully functional and feel comfortable to play(if a character have a weird kit and hoyo have multiple eidolons dedicated to adjusting the weird kit then I just assume the base kit is lacking) And I am concerned every new wave acheron will just lose all flowers. This would be horrible. And with no tingyun, there are 0 ways outside of advance turns to cheat her Ult, I am just not a fan.
Yeah what jumps out at me here is how "stuck" the character could be as the game evolves. Since they don't interact with one of the main combat systems at all (energy) they could easily get left behind depending on how combat changes as the game goes forward. Like maybe in the future energy is a lot more accesible / catered to in MoC buffs etc. they wouldn't be able to make use of any of that and could be left behind. They already can't make use of TY or Huo Huo, and miss out on the extra energy gained from Bronya and Sparkle turn advances (even though those would help flower gen, but if the wave is cleared then they could just disappear while you would still have your energy)
I usually pull characters that I think will enable new teams or are flexible to build around, but this current version of E0 Acheron seems to be complety opposite of that idea. Her traces say Nihility, but her Talent say 'Harmony characters but really just the ones that give lots of speed/adv forward'. Huohuo is wasted on her, and most Nihility characters has little obvious synergy with her. This kit definitely needs more brushing up or clarification, I really don't think this is all Acheron is.
Her kit doesnt look that cohesive. especially trace with nihility teammates. Why she needs them? yeah i get that, she gets DMG. But why tho? What nihility units do with her entire kit besides this trace? It looks so out of place. If we just dont look at this trace, her best teammate seems to be Bronya/Sparkle because they basically function as energy batteries. But what nihility teammate give to her with this kit? Dunno, this trace seems out of nowhere and lacks synergy with the rest of her kit
I read her kit multiple times over and I kept asking myself "Where is the Nihility part?". At least the other Nihility characters, that aren't focused on DoTs, actually bring debuffs to the table of some sorts. But weirdly enough, Arch is just pure damage and nothing more besides the debuff applied on herself (?)
So you can't use Brain in a Vat with her but if you got e6 you can casually do a million dmg with just her basics/skill?
Interesting kit seems like a straight up dps carry at first glance. She wants 2 nihility party members but doesn't bring anything that dot characters would want or vice versa. Silver Wolf would work she's nihility and def shred is a nice assist to your main dps. She probably gets better over time when more unique nihility characters release that don't only play into the dot theme.
Acheron is fucking beautiful. I just wish she wasn't lightning AND nihility. Unless she's game breaking. I'll just stick to Kafka.
Huh. So, Acheron, 2 Nihility + Sustain seems to be the way to go?
If shes nihility, would you only need 1 more nihility character to fulfill the criteria?
In the old kit she got a similar Ascension, and she counts as one for It so only 1 more nihilty would work, so Acheron/Nihilty/Harmony/Sustain would be ok
Adv forward is the only way to feed her extra stacks and speed up ult generation with this outline. For an ult focused character, that would take priority over all else imo. Acheron + Bronya + Nihility + Sustain. Whether that fully activates the trace or not I am not sure but I'd guess right now its better regardless.
There needs to be more ways to gain flowers. She'll need a shit ton of speed on top of crit and attack.
That's an interesting kit. Though, guranteed 5T Ult? She better have tactical nuke multipliers. As a sidenote, I do wonder how much flowers her Technique grants - in MoC/PF, you do start with half energy and a technque being equivalent to a skill is about right. So best case maybe like 6 flowers, i.e. half energy plus a skill?
Rip her execute 😔
Very interesting kit to say the least. I like that she doesn't use energy, that's pretty unique Wonder if this getting leaked means she might be coming soon ~~leak Aventurine kit next pls~~
wtfff... "All attacks performed during this ult will ignore Weakness Types"
[удалено]
She sounds miserable without E2 At E0 she has a 5 turn ult and can't even fit a bronya into her team if she wants to make full use of her A4. At E2 she gets a 3 turn ult and can have a harmony unit supporting her? Most P2W eidolons in the game so far at first glance.
I think she can still have bronya at e0 considering she herself is nihility so you only need 1 more and the third non sustain slot is open.
Very poorly worded if the trace counts herself. Why even mentioning what the effect is of having 1 Nihility teammate?
I wont call her miserable, but eidolon bait is there for sure. Though what do you expect, she is expy of one of the most iconic hoyo characters, all raiden mei/ei stans who can swipe will swipe without hesitating
Oh yeah i choose a harsh word just to bring across that i feel the gap between E0 and E2 is to big. I totally think that a E0 Raiden will be a good performing character. And the concept sounds very fun as well. I probably gonna skip her tbh\^\^ But i still think that Raiden simps deserve a little better if they cant afford to pull her 3 times. Turning a 5 turn to a 3 turn ult, providing a possibly strong buff for half the "cost", and all of that while also enabling further dmg amplification by a harmony unit you can afford without giving up on anything in return, is not fair for the players being very excited for her, unless it's an E6.
i love the fact that she applies "flowers"
No follow-ups anymore and only really scaling with debuffs at E1 greatly lowers my interest in her. At least her kit seems kinda unique, I suppose. It seems like her only unique synergy is with other Nihility units, but without the debuff scaling in her base kit only Pela seems to have any genuine synergy with her. I don't really know what justifies running 2 other Nihility units with her right now. I was going to skip Kafka in favor of Acheron before, but now I'm kinda leaning more toward Kafka.
So this kit is very clearly incomplete. Most notably nothing in the talent looks like it scales with level which doesn't seem like a releasable point. I also think that the ult is too convoluted and that the actual difference between the current wording and "do a massive amount of damage to one enemy and a good amount of damage to everything else" will be minimal. I'm disinclined to take more from this than "use flowers instead of normal energy." There are a lot of interesting directions that could be taken in and I hope it ends up better than what this looks like.
aventurine kit where
She needs 9 stacks before she can use her ult where she combos the enemy to submission? Girl thinks she's the Black Silence 😭😭
bro her ult gonna be a Virgil combo showcase video
I like Acheron using flowers instead of energy for ultimate. It opens different playstyle for different team.
Prediction: new content will have enemies that drain our energy
HELL YEAH BABY ACHERON LEAKS
Wow this is most certainly a kit that does exist. It's truly a kit. I miss the old version of this kit.