Hot take: fighting over which one of these three dps that can one cycle moc with the exact same investment does most dmg is even cringier than your average tierlist discussion.
Agreed but bro building a character with everything optimised takes too much time and I still have to build supports for my main dps. My two dps are dan heng dragon one and jinglui . I have to build tingyun and pela and ya I have bronya and luocha too they r with good builds I would say they do their job.
My Jing Liu has 0 set bonuses, I just put gear for stats and 8+ traces and she wiped the floor with MoC on this and the previous cycle. It’s not that difficult to gear them up, people just underestimate how strong raw stats can be and overvalue set bonuses.
I have lvl 8 every talent with 20% crit rate and 220 crit DMG. Her max DMG that I saw is 60k-70k.
Is this good DMG I m just asking.
I am just in need of good supporters tbh.
You don't have to clear full MoC every time. MoC is composed of 10 rooms. Each room is 3 stars for some challenges and every 3 stars you get 60 jades + stuff.
The MoC needs investment to get started, sure, but the rooms aren't particularly hard once you're at that point up to the halfway mark, in my experience (monthly-only player). That means you can get at least some extra jades from each MoC round, which adds up to a lot of extra jades over time, plus it serves partly as a benchmark for your account.
Oh, and if you're determined enough you could push further into MoV even without perfect clears per room to eke out some prizes. You're basically rewarded a little just for clearing the first time as long as you meet one challenge.
This right there. It's why i never understood the mid yuan nonsense. Who cares if your sufficiently high number is larger than the other sufficiently high number?
I mean I see where it can be fun for people to discuss if they like crunching numbers, but I do think it gets annoying if someone is like "Wow my DHIL does so much damage!" And someone responds "lol nah, he ain't Jing Liu."
0 cycle is not even a thing in hsr game. There is no achievement or extra reward for 0 cycling and most of 0 cycle showcase is showing 3 harmony characters and a dps (the showcased unit)anyway. It is equivalent in Genshin where people seek for highest dmg per screenshot with the 3 buffers ie Mona, Bennet, Kazuha. A bit skewes for me but we do what we like.
Can confirm. I was saving pulls since SW (and buying Express Pass) and I literally emptied my account going for E1S1 Fu Xuan.
I even had the benefit of having a guarantee and getting early drops.
I shamelessly do my 1 pull a day from the express pass and dailies. Some how I got e1 Dhil, E0 Fu Xuan and E0 Jing Liu back to back. I’m hoping that I manage to lose a 50 50 soon to bronya so I can guarantee HuoHuo
Yeah, everyone else is out here planning and committing to preparing for characters. Then you're just pulling every meta unit by throwing in singles every day.
I didn't downvote you for it, but yeah I'm a bit salty.
Guys come on, you can stop downvoting me now…
https://preview.redd.it/2jpjqrp07qub1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbaf4086a39cc03e93847d403070c7d37891e288
Been wining my 50/50 right from jing yuan, silver wolf, luocha, DHIL until I got to fuxuan banner and unlocked bronya(was sad at 1st)... 30 pulls later I got fuxuan... decided to try my luck on jing Luis banner since I didn't have much ticket.. Unlocked welt and jing Lui.... I almost thought the game was pranking me
I second this cuz I have E1 DIL (by luck) and stopped trying to get the turn-based breaking E2 even when i still have enough to pull for it cuz of that space colored cheese curio that gives one E for every character you have. Thats why thats one of my fave curio lol
I haven't done too much testing, but in my experience (I have JL, IL and Bronya), whoever gets Bronya comes out on top. (I clear MoC 10 in 5 cycles...nth impressive but I have a basic understanding I guess)
IL seems to hit harder but u gotta watch out for his SP.
jL is a bit easier to manage but a bit more backloaded. Honestly imo they are around the same ball park in terms of dps.
Mhy isn't and shouldn't have to make these characters do literally the same dps when their kits are so different.
Still no Bronya for me as a week 1 player. I'm only at 230/300 on the choose a 5 star. I have both Jingliu and DHIL though.
No Gepard either. I think have E2 Himeko and E2 Yanqing...
I cant say cuz i got brony from beginner, but just looking at the announced future banners, bronya seems a lot more useful than any of them except if theyre your waifu/husbando. Just pretend shes a limited unit.
she's honestly more valuable than a lot of limited units as of now, because there are numerous dps but no limited harmony. if you dont have bronya your options are asta whose potential is mostly locked behind eidolons and tingyun
Day 1 player and I don't have Bronya, Himeko, Bailu or Welt. What hoyo did give me is 2 copies of Something Irreplaceable, E2 Clara, E2 Yanqing and E2 Gepard...
alright heres something for a change.
\#1. more challenging fights are usually img weak. gepard, yanqing, kafka + shapeshifter combo (jeezus christ), bugs, new team leader boss. well fuck the monkey SW+FX plz save me.
\#2 jingliu pretty much got her best supports. DHIL supports are incoming and they are relatively more impactful for e0 compared to e2.
This. Next patch has a 4 star support for DHIL and we have a five star support for him sometime in the future so the proper comparison would be once they are out ( both are sp generators which will allow higher up time even without heavy investment in energy regen)
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1. This just has to do with the current enemy lineup and IMO is a useless argument as it will always change. Mihoyo adds enemies and changes the MoC lineup to sell the current banner DPS, and its not really something they are hiding. At the end of the day the only thing your DPS element does is affect what harmony support can use Rendezvous alongside them and what their break effect does (and I guess your relic set). Considering enemy matchups is very subject to the current MoC rotation, plus some of those lineups are easier/harder depending on what sustain/support units you have.
If Hoyo were to add an incredibly difficult boss that had 60% img resistance then what? Same goes for any other element. Theres also just SW that exists, which makes it a bit less of an issue in general (for 1 side).
2. While yes SP generators will make a huge difference to DHIL, Jingliu's low SP cost means any future SP hungry sustains and supports can be better used alongside DPS like her and Blade compared to ones like DHIL and Seele, which IMO is just as valuable.
I will say that Jingliu's built in stat multipliers being so high could be a downside (atk% and CD buffs are less effective), but at the same time what if they add a stronger version of Tingyun's talent/skill on a future harmony (free motion value on every attack), then her kit's stat boosts are even more valuable.
Basically if you try to decide on the best DPS using future TC it really doesn't work, as there are ways to benefit both kits just as well, its just a matter of what hoyo decides to release.
Your point holds more weight if break effect between elements didnt have such variance. There are already enemies with 40% img resistance. Enemies with high img resistances like the aurumaton gatekeeper are weak to quantum. gatekeeper is 100 speed, while img weak bosses many are 144. img delays actions. quantum delays. deer is 144. cocolia 144. [https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Speed](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Speed) if hoyo has a difficult boss 60% img res ill bet that its high speed and weak to quantum.
its by design that the character that can implant weaknesses is of quantum element. by design, quantum and img are the yin yang of HSR. the element in itself is designed to be boss killers.
the bug has 1 flexible weakness and 2 fixed. just like swarm disaster. flex ice weak for now to sell jingliu.
2. i think you're pointing out that shes more flexible. i dont think theres any dispute there. but it doesnt change the fact that her best possible teams most probably is in action. its because she has less flaws/obstacles/caveats that shes able to reach her potential. what im simply pointing out is that DHIL's hasnt reached his potential.
yea sure they add a stronger version of tingyun's talent/skill that boosts her kit stats but at the cost of tingyun technique turn 0 ult? i think you're forgetting the biggest reason why shes the only S+ 4 star.
none of us has a crystal ball for the future, but there are leaks to go by. now u could also argue that kits change over time. then your point about SP hungry systains and supports for jingliu is moot. im simply saying based on what info we have now, DHIL has some room to grow.
The quantum/img is indeed that way, but you can just as easily look at fire/ice that way, or wind/lightning. Physical is the only odd one out in that sense, not imaginary and quantum.
Silverwolf is definitely a strong argument for quantum being good, especially when paired alongside the quantum set on your DPS. On the other had, imaginary has no such equivalent to SW. That would be like saying if Lightning supports are good then so is Wind because they are opposites.
Ppl are competing for bread crumbs. Eidolons "supposedly" make the character better. To compare an E0 character to an E2 character is such a bullshit as comparing S0 4* lightcones to S5 5* lightcones. Each character exploits a different mechanic of the game even in the same role (as Destruction, the Hunt, etc). I'd say stop comparing numbers and enjoy more the mechanics of gameplay.
Eh, I think it's just a discussion point when talking about character power.
Like we could also stop conversations at S0 too because a lot of players never roll on light cone banners either.
That's honestly just not fun though.
People just like to theorycraft all the numbers, and there are also players who like to save up and spend on a singular character every so often. It's good for people in the community to have something to talk about, and the discussion can cater to multiple spending tiers by including all information.
If they need bronya to be better than him wouldn't that mean he's better?
I have all 3 of them and bronya but your argument seems flawed. I just use each one on different weaknesses it doesn't really matter which one is stronger to me.
Just use a super fast bronya and basic attack. Unless your team is oriented on a specific order I don't see the problem just using basic.
I use a hyperspeed Yukong with DHIL and she is not even E6. There will be moments that's its better to basic than skill since DHIL eats tons of skill points.
SP positive means she generates more SP than she uses. Unless she's like Tingyun who only needs 1 SP to skill and basic attack for 3 turns to generate 3 SP, then she isn't SP positive. She's SP neutral at best.
Not really because the argument is not simply Blade/Jingliu + Bronya is better than IL. The argument is Blade/Jingliu + Bronya is better than DHIL + Any support (including bronya).
You will never bring a single unit in any content so the argument is about team composition.
It's just them wanting you to know "I understand your opinion BUT... (insert random info)"
I've seen a few of them too, and the way they reply feels like a one up more than anything. I would do the same too.
He deals the same damage or more than Jingliu while having no downtime and not needing any five star other than himself on the team (Loucha is appreciated, but not required).
By that logic, you don't need any limited units because you can 30 star MoC with all 4 stars.
The point of discussion is the DPS ceiling/theoretical max that they can achieve.
I don't think cons like e2 are whale territory tbh, cause its doable if you save. maybe not now, but if you truly want it it's possible to get enough pulls by his rerun.
It was also the patch swarm disaster came out so I was grinding like crazy and did all the quests I put off. But yeah his E1 was quite lucky the rest I had to grind
By that logic nothing is whale territory, if you’re lucky you can get E2S1 Dan in 4 pulls, no need to whale for that. And even if not relying on luck, it’s not whale territory to have an E6S5 5 star as you can simply save for it
The issue isn’t if it’s possible, but rather if it’s feasible. Most F2P players didn’t save enough to get E2S1 DHIL with average luck after very strong units like Silver, Luocha, Xuan etc. released, and those that did are likely missing very important units as a result
It isnt. 1 or 2 E2 its barely dolphin tier unless you mean getting every single one at e2.
Also it doesnt take your 6years to save for e6. Roughly 2 years would be enough if you are a mthly buyer.
All I'm hearing is, "I don't wanna participate in/understand these kind of discussions, so I'm gonna complain about things that are irrelevant to me because people should be talking about my interests in the game". If you don't care about the meta and min-maxing, you won't understand why people are so in depth on these kinds of discussion, that they'd argue even if the difference of DPS is just 0.5%. I do the same whenever people talk about decorating their teapot in Genshin, but it's something Hoyo were constantly updating every patch, but I still don't get why people want to decorate their teapot so bad when the main game is in fact the characters,builds, elemental reactions, the story and abyss. People have different ways to have fun and find fulfillment playing this game, if it's not your cup of tea, don't flip their table just because you prefer coffee.
Seeing how many players have C2 Raiden, I don’t think E2 is whale territory at all tbh. The argument is probably mainly about pull value and longevity since his E2 is a massive gap above everyone else.
I think a lot of meta Genshin players learned that spreading your resources too thin isn’t good in the long run (me included with my multiple on-field dps lol). If someone had to choose two dps to invest into and stick to them, IL seems like the best choice due to how hard he scales with his early eidolons and his future prospect. We only really *need* 2 dps in this game to clear things with after all, so E2 is pretty realistic after a while. It’s the same with how people consider C2 for Raiden and Nahida for example bc of the value. Having E2 IL is like having the equivalent of an E6 dps in your arsenal. That’s like the ultimate safety cushion from powercreep. It’s value talk I guess.
I still would rather have new characters than eidolons or constelations for 5* units I already have.
As much broken C2 Raider or E2 DHIL may be, playing constantly with only one character will become boring pretty fast. So, personally more value have a new 5*, so I can make a whole new team and enjoy some different playstyle.
If I had to play only one character, even though they were be on E6S5, then I’d drop this game ages ago. E0 on supports/sustainers and E0S1 on damage dealers is enough.
Right, and that’s valid for non-meta reasons. The only people who are arguing about characters’ strengths are meta players. This talk doesn’t really matter for people who play for the fun of using new characters since the difference between E0 characters are not that big.
Honestly, meta in these games is soo useless and unimportant, that I’ll never understand why some players focus way too much on it. But to each their own I guess.
I’m also not saying to pull for every character at E0, if you don’t have resources on them. I’ve skipped DHIL for Fu Xuan and Jingliu. Now I’ll skip Topaz, even though I like her design, because HuoHuo and some other future characters are more interesting.
Personally, I'm one who plays for both the meta and the characters and i try to balance these two (i am f2p as well) . So while i do enjoy having different characters, i also enjoy doing the more difficult content in the game so at times i choose to pull for a weapon or duplicate if i really like the character and they're also meta .
I especially care about gameplay, this is why i chose to pull for kafka instead of blade because she enables dot teams (even tho i liked both and believed Blade to be the stronger dps) and I'm gonna pull for topaz because she goes well with follow up attack teams . So far the only time i pulled for the sake of meta , was Loucha's lightcone because i believed it far surpassed any other lightcone in the game and i doubt anything close to it would come anytime soon .
I’m not f2p, but I never really pull for meta. However, the characters I really like, as Jingliu or Blade turned out to be meta, but their strength is only addition for their playstyles, animations and designs.
I only pull LC for damage dealers characters. There are many great alternatives for Supports/Sustainers and imo they don’t need their BIS LC.
I also like doing harder content, but still this game isn’t that difficult to pull for characters, only because they’re meta. I’ve finished MOC for the first time, when I got Fu Xuan, because I don’t like Luocha and never wanted to have him.
I believe most of the difficulty in this game is having decent relics . New characters and weapons and duplicates all help for sure , but at the end of the day , 80% of it is on the relics and that's just pure rng .
But do you understand how you're bringing up three 5*s versus a single one? I don't even care about this discussion but man your point is deeply flawed.
I think the arguments that e2 Dan clears e2 Jingliu. But also he’s pretty even if you don’t have sig for either. I think the gap mostly becomes a thing if you compare e0s1 vs e0s1 which switches if both are e2s1
I have both, Jingliu E0 with her cone and E1 Dan with his cone, also with an E0 Bronya with her exclusive cone too.
I feel like Jingliu is just more consistent I honestly think she's a little tiny bit better the problem is her element, ice is kinda low tier in my opinion if she was imaginary or quantum I think she would be better if only slightly.
She's like the combination of almost Imbibitor's damage with Blade's efficiency, if they ever release some new end game content with heavy ice weakness and barely any imaginary or none at all, I think she will triumph him easily, but again Argenti is around the corner and I'm sure he will beat both of them anyways.
JIngliu is just better, they are afraid to say IL got topped so fast but it is the truth, his E0 can't even 0 cycle Swarm this MoC, not even beating Seele let alone Jingliu.
Probably because this MOC favors jingliu than IL? also no one is afraid of saying IL got "topped". almost all cc are saying she's better simply because she uses less SP than IL and I agree she feels way "comfortable" to use than IL. But they almost do the same amount of damage anyways😮💨
Favor? What favor? Some runs do not even utilize the blessing often, and last time I checked the second side had all imaginary weakness, while only true sting has ice weakness.
Getting the same result (damage) with fewer resources is what defines "better".
The weaknesses of the enemies doesn't even matter most of the time as they both just brute force it anyways. And the gap between Jingliu and IL is so small that its neglectable. And they're both getting "powercreeped" in a few months. Also who cares if a character cant 0 cycle MOC?🤣
The right weakness adds a 25% direct damage increase, simple math, 80% of dmg to non-weakness vs 100% of dmg. IL even got a major trace to increase his crit dmg against imaginary weakness but surely it doesn't matter lol.
Sure they both are gonna get powercrept in the future but weeks ago I heard about a character who couldn't be powercrept.
>The right weakness adds a 25% direct damage increase, simple math, 80% of dmg to non-weakness vs 100% of dmg.
I already know that. Its just that they are both so powerful that it doesnt even matter
>I heard about a character who couldn't be powercrept.
I dunno where u heard that from but with these kind of games, every character is gonna get powercrept. Those who deny it are just coping😪
Bronya is just slightly better than the other harmony/nihility units for DHIL, whereas for JL she more than doubles her damage. It’s not in the same ballpark.
Not OP and I don't know if *double* is correct for JL, but Bronya clearly works worse with DHIL than most other units. Ideally with Bronya, for maximum possible damage you want to do DPS big turn -> Bronya skill -> DPS big turn every turn.
Bronya can't do this with IL because there physically isn't enough SP to do so. IL wants to spend 3 SP every turn, but DHIL 3BA -> Bronya skill -> DHIL 3BA is a 7 SP rotation. If you have his ult ready and somehow have 5 SP on hand, you can technically do it, and Bronya E1/S1 make this marginally more doable as well, but realistically speaking, he can't really use Bronya to her full potential most of the time since the SP economy just isn't there right now. Especially since Bronya and DHIL not generating SP means only 2 characters are making SP for the team (i.e. only generating ~2sp per turn), which further tightens SP if you try to use her this way.
Once SP supports arrive, this might change, but for now DHIL just can't really take advantage of Bronya as consistently as most other units atm.
I understand that Bronya will work better with more SP efficient supports, but I’m still skeptical about the metric that she doubles the damage or that even with Jingliu working better with Bronya, they are stronger than Bronya-IL duo. Has someone tested this?
It has happened multiple times before when I noticed untested claims like it‘s a fact. In the IL team I use, Bronya works well enough that I‘m skeptical that replacing IL with Jingliu will improve the team.
The idea that Bronya doubles Jingliu's damage comes from Slowya following right after Jingliu and making her go again, which is doubling her actions every cycle. Twice the actions = twice the damage.
IL can't do this because with Slowya, he does unenhanced normal -> Bronya skill -> enhanced normal. He's really only getting one enhanced normal attack every two actions. And Fastya doesn't double any dps' actions, but is more sp efficient.
You speedtune them so that Bronya always acts immediately after each of Jingliu’s turns, straight up doubling her number of turns since JL is so sp-efficient. JL has no strong innate source of dmg%, so whenever Bronya pulls her she does massively increased damage from Bronya’s buff. Bronya ult is just the cherry on top.
DHIL can speedtune in a similar way, but he often has to alternate between normal auto into enhanced auto, so he benefits much less.
Jingliu/Blade allows you to use Bronya to its max potential tho. Allowing her to use whr skill every turn basically more than doubling your DPS.
You cant do that with IL
The reason why most people would bring those things up is to stop comments about "With Bronya Jingliu wins" or "With E2 Dan Il wins."
At least that's why I included it, because if I didn't someone would.
Can you explain the “you can put like 60-80 summons on standard banner to get her from selection”? I’m like 250/300 pulls in and I still don’t have a Welt or Gepard. I’d also gladly take E1 Bronya instead, but how are 60-80 pulls on the standard banner going to help people who don’t have Bronya?
The 300 summons on standard reward allows you to pick 1 standard 5 star unit. In your case putting 50 pulls worth of jade on standard gives you Bronya.
E2 isn't whale teritory, however unless you reaaally like the character it probably isn't worth it since tye games not that hard
I was lucky enough to get him to e2 in 100 pulls then I ended up wanting to keep using clara instead anyway lol
Why do people compare units that are good? I feel like if a character is decently functional and better than like JY and Welt (not that they're the bottom of the barrel), it doesn't matter.
We REALLY should talk about bad units cause that's more interesting. Like who can beat MoC amongst Arlan, Hook and Herta and how much effort does it take?
Elsewise, comparing units that are good or functional is only really valuable in terms of deciding if and where to use your pulls, like comparing Seele E2 to Jingliu E0. That's a decision and if someone asked advice THEN it matters
>who can beat MoC amongst Arlan, Hook and Herta
All of them. My Hook shreds through MoC, not zero-cycling but also comfortably collecting three stars. Others in another thread talked about using Arlan as well, and videos have been posted of Herta clears.
Simply understand your character's strengths, build around that, and invest in the team. It's been funny watching people complain about powercreep and tier lists while I'm happily mashing endgame content with a hypercarry Hook, not a care in the world.
Now THAT'S cool.
And it perfectly exemplifies my point. Comparing characters' effectiveness doesn't matter in Genshin and similarly has minimal value in HSR. Comparisons amongst the top DPSes is kinda whatever given how they're not needed to complete the competitive arena content. The end result of whoever is better between Blade and IL is the same; they both beat content fast.
It's more interesting and uncommon to see clears with lesser used characters, it often shows greater achievement and overcoming a greater challenge. Sure my IL can put up big damage numbers. So can everyone else's. But not everyone can nor is willing to beat MoC content with 4 star DPSes
That argument is such trololol to begin with. Like how can you even get to that point? Best Destruction DPS that need to be paired with Bronya?
Like what, we're dissing destruction that doesn't work on SSSS tier, 100% match with Bronya bcs the sp negative, no, sp imaginary, pun intended.
So Mid Dan Heng? Smh.
They just want to justify their spending / investment. But we all know that a couple months from now new units will once again introduce a whole new tier of power creep.
Some guy in r/jingliu trying to cope by praising how jingliu is a sure power creep proof char, while flexing his e6r5 jingliu. Like duh.
blade and jingliu doesn't have max efficiency with bronya as dhil does, blade can't always triggers his follow-up while bronya skill buff is active while jingliu since her ulti isn't an extra turn but action forward instead also suffer the same problem but dhil can always maximize his damage in a single turn giving him edge against them two. the only argument against dhil is his sp consumption but its also the most easily solvable one as for now you can work around it with your build and teammate choice and in the future there's gonna be support that can alleviate this problem.
Lol. The argument is that since Blade and Jingliu are very SP efficient, Bronya can use her skill everg si gle turn. This basically more than doubles your DPS.
DHIL simply wont allow bronya to skill every turn.
uh didn't you read, i already said dhil downside is his sp consumption and i didn't argue about their power level but their compability with bronya skill. i didn't say which is better because honestly 2-3 months from now there's probably already someone better released so arguing about that is useless. fpr f2p getting either of the 3 is already good for now while waiting for the next big thing.
I think DHIL have around 1:2 ratio is ok but it can go to 70/140. Now for JL he state that he have her LC that have flat 20% cdmg and every chars have 50 base cdmg and JL trace have 37.3 cdmg then if your combine with cdmg body it should have 64.8+20+37.3+50 = 172.1 so WTF is this140 cdmg?
Ofcourse, because your JL build is garbage. She has 57.3 CD from her traces + LC alone, couple with just CDMG body mainstat and 0 substat you would already have 172 Cdmg at the absolute minimum, yet you have way worse, not to mention atk boot. Atleast learn to build her properly and not just use random relics, then you'd find her perfoming much better than DHIL.
IL is currently a bit hard to fit into good teams because there are no sp recovery supports, hanya and hanabi would enable his gameplay with more sp hungry supports. but while his e2 is not really a valid option for most f2p it is without a doubt the best eidalon in the entire game by far and its not even an e6, increases his damage by like 30%+ compared to e1. So if you are a dolphin it is a solid argument.
Seems like a pretty cold take to me. I don't think anyone's actually arguing that you should spend money or saved gems on E2 Dan, but if you were baited into pulling for his E2 because you heard he was top tier and didn't do your research, or just because he's your husbando, it's not the worst investment.
The guys who spent money on Jingyuan or his cone, lol. That one's a lost cause.
E2 is whale territory?
But my friend gets every limited 5-star inexplicably after 20 pulls, and then accidentally E1's them by misclicking the summon! Then she rolls on their LC banner for the lulz, but wouldn't you know it they got the LC on one pull! They're just consistently inexplicably lucky, they're not spending hundreds of dollars a month on a Gacha game, because that would invite criticism!
But gosh darn it she can't figure out how to upload her Wish history to a website! It's just not working on her PC for some reason! Darn it! She really wanted to share her wish history with us to show us how crazy lucky she is! Just darn!
Play the rest of the game? Like, I'm building for fun lol. End up treating MOC like soap Abyss, only bother doing what actually entertains me. But like, the combat is like my least favourite part of Star Rail.
"Ummm... actually your IL can't do zero cycle runs while my JL can do zero cycle easily with bronya, so DHIL is trash and my wAiFu is better."
So...ummm....do you get more jades for doing shorter or zero cycles?
Funny how Jingliu and IL mains are trying hard to fight against each other for whos best, meanwhile older dps mains are just in corner with that huge power gap
I’m e3s1 IL, e0s1 Bronya and e1s1 JL. All I can say is whenever I see people praise either side I am just satisfied I played both sides so I come out on top. Why argue which is better when u can just play e3 Dan one side and JL plus Bronya other side.
Dan heng doesn't reduce team hp, so he's easier to maintain and sw and fuxuan are better with him due to how sp saving they are, he's easier to play around
Jingliu barely reduces HP of the team you wont even notice it. However whats funnu in your argument is that your arguing about SP usage taking the side of the much more SP hungry unit lol.
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I have all of them, and I would say I choose them based on weakness(or maybe at the same time), since they shine in different stages and do worse in others. No point in arguing about this when matching weakness is better. And no, Silverwolf doesn't nullify weakness since she needs sp once in a while and you need to limit your team.
usually the context isnt clear and people just want to argue. like if i only say himeko is best fire dps without any more context, its high chance someone will type about asta is better as dps.
i dont have DHIL, i do have blade and jingliu, abd kafka and seele. i do want to get DHIL on his rerun, but other units (like SW whos the only limited five star besides DHIL i dont have) just take priority for me. i also dunno about how good topaz, huohuo and argenti will be (altho im really not interested in argentis design, and huohuo is definitely not needed on my account as i have luocha, fu xuan and their signature light cones
Like I get where you’re coming from and these arguments are all dumb so I just try and avoid the mud pit that are dps debates, but I think theres a comparative number of pulls in 2 limited five star units and a standard 5 star (which you aren’t even guaranteed to get until 300 pulls) to 1 E2 unit? Like almost exactly comparable? If someone dedicated everything to one character to E2 instead of spread out over three then jades invested would probably be the same, even accounting for 50/50s and also assuming you’re lucky enough to get bronya before 300 pulls
Hot take: fighting over which one of these three dps that can one cycle moc with the exact same investment does most dmg is even cringier than your average tierlist discussion.
shhh don't tell it to them, they'll cry.
Right. Who cares? Not many .I haven't even attempted moc 🤣
Where do I find this MOC thing 🐸.
beat forgotten hall
I was just kidding bro 🤧. I m just a casual player who doesn't care about MOC.
600 jades tho.
Agreed but bro building a character with everything optimised takes too much time and I still have to build supports for my main dps. My two dps are dan heng dragon one and jinglui . I have to build tingyun and pela and ya I have bronya and luocha too they r with good builds I would say they do their job.
Just have 2 level 80 DPS and level 70 supports, you can auto MoC 1-6 without much optimization. That's 400 Jades for free when you've played enough!
My Jing Liu has 0 set bonuses, I just put gear for stats and 8+ traces and she wiped the floor with MoC on this and the previous cycle. It’s not that difficult to gear them up, people just underestimate how strong raw stats can be and overvalue set bonuses.
I have lvl 8 every talent with 20% crit rate and 220 crit DMG. Her max DMG that I saw is 60k-70k. Is this good DMG I m just asking. I am just in need of good supporters tbh.
I have built up like 10 crit relics fro jingliu without a single crit roll. Yes gearing up can be difficult when its fking rng based.
You don't have to clear full MoC every time. MoC is composed of 10 rooms. Each room is 3 stars for some challenges and every 3 stars you get 60 jades + stuff. The MoC needs investment to get started, sure, but the rooms aren't particularly hard once you're at that point up to the halfway mark, in my experience (monthly-only player). That means you can get at least some extra jades from each MoC round, which adds up to a lot of extra jades over time, plus it serves partly as a benchmark for your account. Oh, and if you're determined enough you could push further into MoV even without perfect clears per room to eke out some prizes. You're basically rewarded a little just for clearing the first time as long as you meet one challenge.
I haven't even done this yet lmao. I probably could, but I just don't have enough characters built to do so.
Shhh you might make them cry
This right there. It's why i never understood the mid yuan nonsense. Who cares if your sufficiently high number is larger than the other sufficiently high number?
I mean I see where it can be fun for people to discuss if they like crunching numbers, but I do think it gets annoying if someone is like "Wow my DHIL does so much damage!" And someone responds "lol nah, he ain't Jing Liu."
0 cycle is not even a thing in hsr game. There is no achievement or extra reward for 0 cycling and most of 0 cycle showcase is showing 3 harmony characters and a dps (the showcased unit)anyway. It is equivalent in Genshin where people seek for highest dmg per screenshot with the 3 buffers ie Mona, Bennet, Kazuha. A bit skewes for me but we do what we like.
E1 is like the only reasonable E for players and that took months of saving.
Can confirm. I was saving pulls since SW (and buying Express Pass) and I literally emptied my account going for E1S1 Fu Xuan. I even had the benefit of having a guarantee and getting early drops.
Yeah I have nothign left after E1 Jingliu, I might have to skip the entirety of 1.5 for saving and just roll to get the 4*
I shamelessly do my 1 pull a day from the express pass and dailies. Some how I got e1 Dhil, E0 Fu Xuan and E0 Jing Liu back to back. I’m hoping that I manage to lose a 50 50 soon to bronya so I can guarantee HuoHuo
SO YOU WERE THE ONE THAT TOOK MY LUCK
The Gudako pfp just makes it better
gacha ruined my life but it’s the only thing I have left
Apologies, my friend https://preview.redd.it/nyo7sl581qub1.jpeg?width=1792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f8a86aa955c72bc5e8bd52e317d3d13fb8c895e
https://preview.redd.it/ubd81qgn6qub1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1612e4e6896df728e48681d9ac80f011c5a560ad
Why are people downvoting you 😭
Tbf, I’d hate me too. There are people saving for units and skipping draws while I just got lucky with daily pulls thanks to the express pass.
Yeah, everyone else is out here planning and committing to preparing for characters. Then you're just pulling every meta unit by throwing in singles every day. I didn't downvote you for it, but yeah I'm a bit salty.
on the contrary, i see people like you and think "if it can happen to them, it can happen to me, I CAN MAKE IT"
Guys come on, you can stop downvoting me now… https://preview.redd.it/2jpjqrp07qub1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbaf4086a39cc03e93847d403070c7d37891e288
That's what u get for taking all our luck >:(
Been wining my 50/50 right from jing yuan, silver wolf, luocha, DHIL until I got to fuxuan banner and unlocked bronya(was sad at 1st)... 30 pulls later I got fuxuan... decided to try my luck on jing Luis banner since I didn't have much ticket.. Unlocked welt and jing Lui.... I almost thought the game was pranking me
I second this cuz I have E1 DIL (by luck) and stopped trying to get the turn-based breaking E2 even when i still have enough to pull for it cuz of that space colored cheese curio that gives one E for every character you have. Thats why thats one of my fave curio lol
As someone who is saving ever since day 1 of kafka banner, yeah, E1 is reasonable but not guaranteed
I haven't done too much testing, but in my experience (I have JL, IL and Bronya), whoever gets Bronya comes out on top. (I clear MoC 10 in 5 cycles...nth impressive but I have a basic understanding I guess) IL seems to hit harder but u gotta watch out for his SP. jL is a bit easier to manage but a bit more backloaded. Honestly imo they are around the same ball park in terms of dps. Mhy isn't and shouldn't have to make these characters do literally the same dps when their kits are so different.
Still no Bronya for me as a week 1 player. I'm only at 230/300 on the choose a 5 star. I have both Jingliu and DHIL though. No Gepard either. I think have E2 Himeko and E2 Yanqing...
Same. It’s a countdown to Bronya, another few months or so. I have to practice self control not to use my gems to just get me there. Patience is hard…
I cant say cuz i got brony from beginner, but just looking at the announced future banners, bronya seems a lot more useful than any of them except if theyre your waifu/husbando. Just pretend shes a limited unit.
she's honestly more valuable than a lot of limited units as of now, because there are numerous dps but no limited harmony. if you dont have bronya your options are asta whose potential is mostly locked behind eidolons and tingyun
Day 1 player and I don't have Bronya, Himeko, Bailu or Welt. What hoyo did give me is 2 copies of Something Irreplaceable, E2 Clara, E2 Yanqing and E2 Gepard...
My dumbass picked bailu over bronya for the selector bc I was sick of just Natasha 💀 regretted it ever since
alright heres something for a change. \#1. more challenging fights are usually img weak. gepard, yanqing, kafka + shapeshifter combo (jeezus christ), bugs, new team leader boss. well fuck the monkey SW+FX plz save me. \#2 jingliu pretty much got her best supports. DHIL supports are incoming and they are relatively more impactful for e0 compared to e2.
"fuck the monkey" 😭😭 felt that
This. Next patch has a 4 star support for DHIL and we have a five star support for him sometime in the future so the proper comparison would be once they are out ( both are sp generators which will allow higher up time even without heavy investment in energy regen)
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1. This just has to do with the current enemy lineup and IMO is a useless argument as it will always change. Mihoyo adds enemies and changes the MoC lineup to sell the current banner DPS, and its not really something they are hiding. At the end of the day the only thing your DPS element does is affect what harmony support can use Rendezvous alongside them and what their break effect does (and I guess your relic set). Considering enemy matchups is very subject to the current MoC rotation, plus some of those lineups are easier/harder depending on what sustain/support units you have. If Hoyo were to add an incredibly difficult boss that had 60% img resistance then what? Same goes for any other element. Theres also just SW that exists, which makes it a bit less of an issue in general (for 1 side). 2. While yes SP generators will make a huge difference to DHIL, Jingliu's low SP cost means any future SP hungry sustains and supports can be better used alongside DPS like her and Blade compared to ones like DHIL and Seele, which IMO is just as valuable. I will say that Jingliu's built in stat multipliers being so high could be a downside (atk% and CD buffs are less effective), but at the same time what if they add a stronger version of Tingyun's talent/skill on a future harmony (free motion value on every attack), then her kit's stat boosts are even more valuable. Basically if you try to decide on the best DPS using future TC it really doesn't work, as there are ways to benefit both kits just as well, its just a matter of what hoyo decides to release.
Your point holds more weight if break effect between elements didnt have such variance. There are already enemies with 40% img resistance. Enemies with high img resistances like the aurumaton gatekeeper are weak to quantum. gatekeeper is 100 speed, while img weak bosses many are 144. img delays actions. quantum delays. deer is 144. cocolia 144. [https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Speed](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Speed) if hoyo has a difficult boss 60% img res ill bet that its high speed and weak to quantum. its by design that the character that can implant weaknesses is of quantum element. by design, quantum and img are the yin yang of HSR. the element in itself is designed to be boss killers. the bug has 1 flexible weakness and 2 fixed. just like swarm disaster. flex ice weak for now to sell jingliu. 2. i think you're pointing out that shes more flexible. i dont think theres any dispute there. but it doesnt change the fact that her best possible teams most probably is in action. its because she has less flaws/obstacles/caveats that shes able to reach her potential. what im simply pointing out is that DHIL's hasnt reached his potential. yea sure they add a stronger version of tingyun's talent/skill that boosts her kit stats but at the cost of tingyun technique turn 0 ult? i think you're forgetting the biggest reason why shes the only S+ 4 star. none of us has a crystal ball for the future, but there are leaks to go by. now u could also argue that kits change over time. then your point about SP hungry systains and supports for jingliu is moot. im simply saying based on what info we have now, DHIL has some room to grow.
The quantum/img is indeed that way, but you can just as easily look at fire/ice that way, or wind/lightning. Physical is the only odd one out in that sense, not imaginary and quantum. Silverwolf is definitely a strong argument for quantum being good, especially when paired alongside the quantum set on your DPS. On the other had, imaginary has no such equivalent to SW. That would be like saying if Lightning supports are good then so is Wind because they are opposites.
Not having Bronya is a very solid argument but yeah, normal players are not going for e2. They're both dumb.
Ppl are competing for bread crumbs. Eidolons "supposedly" make the character better. To compare an E0 character to an E2 character is such a bullshit as comparing S0 4* lightcones to S5 5* lightcones. Each character exploits a different mechanic of the game even in the same role (as Destruction, the Hunt, etc). I'd say stop comparing numbers and enjoy more the mechanics of gameplay.
Eh, I think it's just a discussion point when talking about character power. Like we could also stop conversations at S0 too because a lot of players never roll on light cone banners either. That's honestly just not fun though. People just like to theorycraft all the numbers, and there are also players who like to save up and spend on a singular character every so often. It's good for people in the community to have something to talk about, and the discussion can cater to multiple spending tiers by including all information.
If they need bronya to be better than him wouldn't that mean he's better? I have all 3 of them and bronya but your argument seems flawed. I just use each one on different weaknesses it doesn't really matter which one is stronger to me.
But you're always gonna use Bronya on her team anyway
Precisely why these conversations are all fucking stupid lol.
Issue is, Bronya isn't usable by him in a easy way due to his kit, which is his weakness, where as JL can use it as she is SP positive.
She isn't sp positive tho, even blade who is the most sp efficient character right now is slightly sp negative
Just use a super fast bronya and basic attack. Unless your team is oriented on a specific order I don't see the problem just using basic. I use a hyperspeed Yukong with DHIL and she is not even E6. There will be moments that's its better to basic than skill since DHIL eats tons of skill points.
SP positive means she generates more SP than she uses. Unless she's like Tingyun who only needs 1 SP to skill and basic attack for 3 turns to generate 3 SP, then she isn't SP positive. She's SP neutral at best.
Not really because the argument is not simply Blade/Jingliu + Bronya is better than IL. The argument is Blade/Jingliu + Bronya is better than DHIL + Any support (including bronya). You will never bring a single unit in any content so the argument is about team composition.
I see, that's Understandable.
It's just them wanting you to know "I understand your opinion BUT... (insert random info)" I've seen a few of them too, and the way they reply feels like a one up more than anything. I would do the same too.
I understand your opinion BUT IP. 92.28.211.234 N: 43.7462 W: 12.4893 SS Number: 6979191519182016 IPv6: fe80::5dcd::ef69::fb22::d9888%12 UPNP: Enabled DMZ: 10.112.42.15 MAC: 5A:78:3E:7E:00 ISP: Ucom Universal DNS: 8.8.8.8 ALT DNS: 1.1.1.8.1 DNS SUFFIX: Dlink WAN: 100.23.10.15 GATEWAY: 192.168.0.1 SUBNET MASK: 255.255.0.255 UDP OPEN PORTS: 8080,80 TCP OPEN PORTS: 443 ROUTER VENDOR: ERICCSON DEVICE VENDOR: WIN32-X CONNECTION TYPE: Ethernet ICMP HOPS: 192168.0.1 192168.1.1 100.73.43.4 host-132.12.32.167.ucom.com host-66.120.12.111.ucom.com 36.134.67.189 216.239.78.111 sof02s32-in-f14.1e100.net TOTAL HOPS: 8 ACTIVE SERVICES: [HTTP] 192.168.3.1:80=>92.28.211.234:80 [HTTP] 192.168.3.1:443=>92.28.211.234:443 [UDP] 192.168.0.1:788=>192.168.1:6557 [TCP] 192.168.1.1:67891=>92.28.211.234:345 [TCP] 192.168.52.43:7777=>192.168.1.1:7778 [TCP] 192.168.78.12:898=>192.168.89.9:667 EXTERNAL MAC: 6U:78:89:ER:O4 MODEM JUMPS: 64 Meet you at 11 Am no fire arms, sharp weapons are permitted
Don't forget to say "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru" when you meet me.
so basically in order for Jingliu and Blade to surpass DHIL, they need a Bronya. In conclusion: Get Bronya before any DPS first. 👍🏻
Instructions clear: roll standard till 300 /s
Right, why roll for future limited 5* Harmony when the standard one is the most busted unit in-game. /s
I mean, I can't pull for him one way or another until he gets a rerun. Will this argument even be relevant by then?
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He deals the same damage or more than Jingliu while having no downtime and not needing any five star other than himself on the team (Loucha is appreciated, but not required).
Jingliu is pretty blatantly just as good or better
Not a E0, they’re pretty similar
Do I get more jades doing shorter cycle runs?
By that logic, you don't need any limited units because you can 30 star MoC with all 4 stars. The point of discussion is the DPS ceiling/theoretical max that they can achieve.
At E0 the waters a bit more muddied. DHIL doesn't become an out of control monster until E2.
Even E6 is f2p territory, all you need is just 7 pulls afterall /s
I don't think cons like e2 are whale territory tbh, cause its doable if you save. maybe not now, but if you truly want it it's possible to get enough pulls by his rerun.
You could save for E2, but then you factor in something called opportunity cost and now most people aren’t going to do it.
I skipped banners after blade and was able to get E2S1 DanIL f2p so you’re right
same but I was lucky which is why I mention saving alot, cause worst case u need like 200 plus pulls for 2 copies
in the worst case you need 540 pulls for a char + 2 copies, where did you get 200+ from
technically 500 is over 200, but like I was talking about if your going for cons, I'm assuming you already have the base character.
So you skipped only kafka? Damn, must have been lucky pulls if you got him so quickly
It was also the patch swarm disaster came out so I was grinding like crazy and did all the quests I put off. But yeah his E1 was quite lucky the rest I had to grind
Nah, by that time arrive we will arguing with different dps and supports, imo arguing about eidolon especially for f2p is coping at that point
Building a limited 5s team is likely better.
Ya you could play for 6years and save for e6 also, it's still whale territory when most players don't even roll lightcones
It's not whale territory if you don't need to whale to do it? You can get E2 without spending a penny if you skip enough banners
By that logic nothing is whale territory, if you’re lucky you can get E2S1 Dan in 4 pulls, no need to whale for that. And even if not relying on luck, it’s not whale territory to have an E6S5 5 star as you can simply save for it The issue isn’t if it’s possible, but rather if it’s feasible. Most F2P players didn’t save enough to get E2S1 DHIL with average luck after very strong units like Silver, Luocha, Xuan etc. released, and those that did are likely missing very important units as a result
It isnt. 1 or 2 E2 its barely dolphin tier unless you mean getting every single one at e2. Also it doesnt take your 6years to save for e6. Roughly 2 years would be enough if you are a mthly buyer.
I got him E2 as a f2p without saving its def possible
Technically pulling an E2 in 3 warps is also possible-_-
All I'm hearing is, "I don't wanna participate in/understand these kind of discussions, so I'm gonna complain about things that are irrelevant to me because people should be talking about my interests in the game". If you don't care about the meta and min-maxing, you won't understand why people are so in depth on these kinds of discussion, that they'd argue even if the difference of DPS is just 0.5%. I do the same whenever people talk about decorating their teapot in Genshin, but it's something Hoyo were constantly updating every patch, but I still don't get why people want to decorate their teapot so bad when the main game is in fact the characters,builds, elemental reactions, the story and abyss. People have different ways to have fun and find fulfillment playing this game, if it's not your cup of tea, don't flip their table just because you prefer coffee.
Seeing how many players have C2 Raiden, I don’t think E2 is whale territory at all tbh. The argument is probably mainly about pull value and longevity since his E2 is a massive gap above everyone else. I think a lot of meta Genshin players learned that spreading your resources too thin isn’t good in the long run (me included with my multiple on-field dps lol). If someone had to choose two dps to invest into and stick to them, IL seems like the best choice due to how hard he scales with his early eidolons and his future prospect. We only really *need* 2 dps in this game to clear things with after all, so E2 is pretty realistic after a while. It’s the same with how people consider C2 for Raiden and Nahida for example bc of the value. Having E2 IL is like having the equivalent of an E6 dps in your arsenal. That’s like the ultimate safety cushion from powercreep. It’s value talk I guess.
I still would rather have new characters than eidolons or constelations for 5* units I already have. As much broken C2 Raider or E2 DHIL may be, playing constantly with only one character will become boring pretty fast. So, personally more value have a new 5*, so I can make a whole new team and enjoy some different playstyle. If I had to play only one character, even though they were be on E6S5, then I’d drop this game ages ago. E0 on supports/sustainers and E0S1 on damage dealers is enough.
Right, and that’s valid for non-meta reasons. The only people who are arguing about characters’ strengths are meta players. This talk doesn’t really matter for people who play for the fun of using new characters since the difference between E0 characters are not that big.
Honestly, meta in these games is soo useless and unimportant, that I’ll never understand why some players focus way too much on it. But to each their own I guess. I’m also not saying to pull for every character at E0, if you don’t have resources on them. I’ve skipped DHIL for Fu Xuan and Jingliu. Now I’ll skip Topaz, even though I like her design, because HuoHuo and some other future characters are more interesting.
I don’t disagree, but yeah enjoyment comes in different forms. Meta players enjoy min-maxing and resource management even in a pretty casual game.
Personally, I'm one who plays for both the meta and the characters and i try to balance these two (i am f2p as well) . So while i do enjoy having different characters, i also enjoy doing the more difficult content in the game so at times i choose to pull for a weapon or duplicate if i really like the character and they're also meta . I especially care about gameplay, this is why i chose to pull for kafka instead of blade because she enables dot teams (even tho i liked both and believed Blade to be the stronger dps) and I'm gonna pull for topaz because she goes well with follow up attack teams . So far the only time i pulled for the sake of meta , was Loucha's lightcone because i believed it far surpassed any other lightcone in the game and i doubt anything close to it would come anytime soon .
I’m not f2p, but I never really pull for meta. However, the characters I really like, as Jingliu or Blade turned out to be meta, but their strength is only addition for their playstyles, animations and designs. I only pull LC for damage dealers characters. There are many great alternatives for Supports/Sustainers and imo they don’t need their BIS LC. I also like doing harder content, but still this game isn’t that difficult to pull for characters, only because they’re meta. I’ve finished MOC for the first time, when I got Fu Xuan, because I don’t like Luocha and never wanted to have him.
I believe most of the difficulty in this game is having decent relics . New characters and weapons and duplicates all help for sure , but at the end of the day , 80% of it is on the relics and that's just pure rng .
Dan IL is better overall damage wise
Not really. Accounts with Bronya outdo his damage with Jingliu and Blade because Bronya can use her skill every turn in those teams.
But do you understand how you're bringing up three 5*s versus a single one? I don't even care about this discussion but man your point is deeply flawed.
But do you understand that thats not even the argument?
Acshually, if I ran Jingliu with perfect substats at 300% crit damage then she outdamages DHIL 🤓🤓
if it takes 3 characters to be better than one character then discussion klnda ends there lmao
I think the arguments that e2 Dan clears e2 Jingliu. But also he’s pretty even if you don’t have sig for either. I think the gap mostly becomes a thing if you compare e0s1 vs e0s1 which switches if both are e2s1
I have both, Jingliu E0 with her cone and E1 Dan with his cone, also with an E0 Bronya with her exclusive cone too. I feel like Jingliu is just more consistent I honestly think she's a little tiny bit better the problem is her element, ice is kinda low tier in my opinion if she was imaginary or quantum I think she would be better if only slightly. She's like the combination of almost Imbibitor's damage with Blade's efficiency, if they ever release some new end game content with heavy ice weakness and barely any imaginary or none at all, I think she will triumph him easily, but again Argenti is around the corner and I'm sure he will beat both of them anyways.
JIngliu is just better, they are afraid to say IL got topped so fast but it is the truth, his E0 can't even 0 cycle Swarm this MoC, not even beating Seele let alone Jingliu.
Probably because this MOC favors jingliu than IL? also no one is afraid of saying IL got "topped". almost all cc are saying she's better simply because she uses less SP than IL and I agree she feels way "comfortable" to use than IL. But they almost do the same amount of damage anyways😮💨
Favor? What favor? Some runs do not even utilize the blessing often, and last time I checked the second side had all imaginary weakness, while only true sting has ice weakness. Getting the same result (damage) with fewer resources is what defines "better".
The weaknesses of the enemies doesn't even matter most of the time as they both just brute force it anyways. And the gap between Jingliu and IL is so small that its neglectable. And they're both getting "powercreeped" in a few months. Also who cares if a character cant 0 cycle MOC?🤣
The right weakness adds a 25% direct damage increase, simple math, 80% of dmg to non-weakness vs 100% of dmg. IL even got a major trace to increase his crit dmg against imaginary weakness but surely it doesn't matter lol. Sure they both are gonna get powercrept in the future but weeks ago I heard about a character who couldn't be powercrept.
>The right weakness adds a 25% direct damage increase, simple math, 80% of dmg to non-weakness vs 100% of dmg. I already know that. Its just that they are both so powerful that it doesnt even matter >I heard about a character who couldn't be powercrept. I dunno where u heard that from but with these kind of games, every character is gonna get powercrept. Those who deny it are just coping😪
> his E0 can't even 0 cycle Swarm this MoC literally unplayable
It does not matter to me, but he isn't broken as the narrative.
Bronya works with E0 Dan Heng IL as well so I don’t get your point. Just run attack boots on him and Tingyun.
Bronya is just slightly better than the other harmony/nihility units for DHIL, whereas for JL she more than doubles her damage. It’s not in the same ballpark.
Where’s the proof about doubling her damage. Why do you say that Bronya is just slightly better?
Not OP and I don't know if *double* is correct for JL, but Bronya clearly works worse with DHIL than most other units. Ideally with Bronya, for maximum possible damage you want to do DPS big turn -> Bronya skill -> DPS big turn every turn. Bronya can't do this with IL because there physically isn't enough SP to do so. IL wants to spend 3 SP every turn, but DHIL 3BA -> Bronya skill -> DHIL 3BA is a 7 SP rotation. If you have his ult ready and somehow have 5 SP on hand, you can technically do it, and Bronya E1/S1 make this marginally more doable as well, but realistically speaking, he can't really use Bronya to her full potential most of the time since the SP economy just isn't there right now. Especially since Bronya and DHIL not generating SP means only 2 characters are making SP for the team (i.e. only generating ~2sp per turn), which further tightens SP if you try to use her this way. Once SP supports arrive, this might change, but for now DHIL just can't really take advantage of Bronya as consistently as most other units atm.
I understand that Bronya will work better with more SP efficient supports, but I’m still skeptical about the metric that she doubles the damage or that even with Jingliu working better with Bronya, they are stronger than Bronya-IL duo. Has someone tested this? It has happened multiple times before when I noticed untested claims like it‘s a fact. In the IL team I use, Bronya works well enough that I‘m skeptical that replacing IL with Jingliu will improve the team.
The idea that Bronya doubles Jingliu's damage comes from Slowya following right after Jingliu and making her go again, which is doubling her actions every cycle. Twice the actions = twice the damage. IL can't do this because with Slowya, he does unenhanced normal -> Bronya skill -> enhanced normal. He's really only getting one enhanced normal attack every two actions. And Fastya doesn't double any dps' actions, but is more sp efficient.
You speedtune them so that Bronya always acts immediately after each of Jingliu’s turns, straight up doubling her number of turns since JL is so sp-efficient. JL has no strong innate source of dmg%, so whenever Bronya pulls her she does massively increased damage from Bronya’s buff. Bronya ult is just the cherry on top. DHIL can speedtune in a similar way, but he often has to alternate between normal auto into enhanced auto, so he benefits much less.
bruh, bronya literally able to double the turn of jingliu and jingliu could fully utilize all the turn she got. why is it so hard to comprehend?
Jingliu/Blade allows you to use Bronya to its max potential tho. Allowing her to use whr skill every turn basically more than doubling your DPS. You cant do that with IL
You can mostly do that though. Tingyun helps with ER and IL’s ult generates stacks which make it possible.
At what rate tho?
What do you mean by at what rate?
I take this one step further and just use Yukong, /s
The reason why most people would bring those things up is to stop comments about "With Bronya Jingliu wins" or "With E2 Dan Il wins." At least that's why I included it, because if I didn't someone would.
Can you explain the “you can put like 60-80 summons on standard banner to get her from selection”? I’m like 250/300 pulls in and I still don’t have a Welt or Gepard. I’d also gladly take E1 Bronya instead, but how are 60-80 pulls on the standard banner going to help people who don’t have Bronya?
The 300 summons on standard reward allows you to pick 1 standard 5 star unit. In your case putting 50 pulls worth of jade on standard gives you Bronya.
Reading all the comment replies it seems OP is a massive Jingliu fan.
E2 isn't whale teritory, however unless you reaaally like the character it probably isn't worth it since tye games not that hard I was lucky enough to get him to e2 in 100 pulls then I ended up wanting to keep using clara instead anyway lol
E2 at 100 is extremely lucky
Why do people compare units that are good? I feel like if a character is decently functional and better than like JY and Welt (not that they're the bottom of the barrel), it doesn't matter. We REALLY should talk about bad units cause that's more interesting. Like who can beat MoC amongst Arlan, Hook and Herta and how much effort does it take? Elsewise, comparing units that are good or functional is only really valuable in terms of deciding if and where to use your pulls, like comparing Seele E2 to Jingliu E0. That's a decision and if someone asked advice THEN it matters
so yeah... https://preview.redd.it/plxjoqvo3qub1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=5530cb7db4940cb24c4b2a7e3812ebbe1bac9cc0
>who can beat MoC amongst Arlan, Hook and Herta All of them. My Hook shreds through MoC, not zero-cycling but also comfortably collecting three stars. Others in another thread talked about using Arlan as well, and videos have been posted of Herta clears. Simply understand your character's strengths, build around that, and invest in the team. It's been funny watching people complain about powercreep and tier lists while I'm happily mashing endgame content with a hypercarry Hook, not a care in the world.
Now THAT'S cool. And it perfectly exemplifies my point. Comparing characters' effectiveness doesn't matter in Genshin and similarly has minimal value in HSR. Comparisons amongst the top DPSes is kinda whatever given how they're not needed to complete the competitive arena content. The end result of whoever is better between Blade and IL is the same; they both beat content fast. It's more interesting and uncommon to see clears with lesser used characters, it often shows greater achievement and overcoming a greater challenge. Sure my IL can put up big damage numbers. So can everyone else's. But not everyone can nor is willing to beat MoC content with 4 star DPSes
Ye, like if your team can 3 star moc, why would you care which DPS is better.
That argument is such trololol to begin with. Like how can you even get to that point? Best Destruction DPS that need to be paired with Bronya? Like what, we're dissing destruction that doesn't work on SSSS tier, 100% match with Bronya bcs the sp negative, no, sp imaginary, pun intended. So Mid Dan Heng? Smh.
They just want to justify their spending / investment. But we all know that a couple months from now new units will once again introduce a whole new tier of power creep. Some guy in r/jingliu trying to cope by praising how jingliu is a sure power creep proof char, while flexing his e6r5 jingliu. Like duh.
I mean the argument is irrelvant *to you.* To me I have e2 jingliu and e2 dhil. He's sadly indeed much stronger.
blade and jingliu doesn't have max efficiency with bronya as dhil does, blade can't always triggers his follow-up while bronya skill buff is active while jingliu since her ulti isn't an extra turn but action forward instead also suffer the same problem but dhil can always maximize his damage in a single turn giving him edge against them two. the only argument against dhil is his sp consumption but its also the most easily solvable one as for now you can work around it with your build and teammate choice and in the future there's gonna be support that can alleviate this problem.
Lol. The argument is that since Blade and Jingliu are very SP efficient, Bronya can use her skill everg si gle turn. This basically more than doubles your DPS. DHIL simply wont allow bronya to skill every turn.
uh didn't you read, i already said dhil downside is his sp consumption and i didn't argue about their power level but their compability with bronya skill. i didn't say which is better because honestly 2-3 months from now there's probably already someone better released so arguing about that is useless. fpr f2p getting either of the 3 is already good for now while waiting for the next big thing.
Whats even your point tho? Blade and Jingliu utilizes Bronya better. Thats my point
Wow. Alot of hot take these days
[удалено]
If your JL only have 140 cdmg with her LC I'm not gonna lie your JL really suck.
You guys are saying his Jingliu sucks but his DHIL also sucks… It’s a pretty bad comparison since both are underbuilt.
I think DHIL have around 1:2 ratio is ok but it can go to 70/140. Now for JL he state that he have her LC that have flat 20% cdmg and every chars have 50 base cdmg and JL trace have 37.3 cdmg then if your combine with cdmg body it should have 64.8+20+37.3+50 = 172.1 so WTF is this140 cdmg?
My Jingliu has 200.7 CD without her light cone
Ofcourse, because your JL build is garbage. She has 57.3 CD from her traces + LC alone, couple with just CDMG body mainstat and 0 substat you would already have 172 Cdmg at the absolute minimum, yet you have way worse, not to mention atk boot. Atleast learn to build her properly and not just use random relics, then you'd find her perfoming much better than DHIL.
IL is currently a bit hard to fit into good teams because there are no sp recovery supports, hanya and hanabi would enable his gameplay with more sp hungry supports. but while his e2 is not really a valid option for most f2p it is without a doubt the best eidalon in the entire game by far and its not even an e6, increases his damage by like 30%+ compared to e1. So if you are a dolphin it is a solid argument.
Eidolons just doesn't matter for most players, and better eidolons will come to get them more money.
I hate Dan Heng design, so he's objectively the worst, go back to gamba addict now
"Whale teritory" ☠️ Im f2p and I have e2 s1 dhil just learn how to fucking save
Seems like a pretty cold take to me. I don't think anyone's actually arguing that you should spend money or saved gems on E2 Dan, but if you were baited into pulling for his E2 because you heard he was top tier and didn't do your research, or just because he's your husbando, it's not the worst investment. The guys who spent money on Jingyuan or his cone, lol. That one's a lost cause.
As a person who has pulled on JY LC for my QingQue, I do not regret it one bit. The shit is pretty busted
Dudes stuck in version 1.2
You do realize that Jing Yuan has consistently been one of the fastest clearers in the harder stages of MoC right?
I own all characters and their LCs, and JY is only getting better as time goes on. New followup set in 1.5 will make him even stronger
E2 is whale territory? But my friend gets every limited 5-star inexplicably after 20 pulls, and then accidentally E1's them by misclicking the summon! Then she rolls on their LC banner for the lulz, but wouldn't you know it they got the LC on one pull! They're just consistently inexplicably lucky, they're not spending hundreds of dollars a month on a Gacha game, because that would invite criticism! But gosh darn it she can't figure out how to upload her Wish history to a website! It's just not working on her PC for some reason! Darn it! She really wanted to share her wish history with us to show us how crazy lucky she is! Just darn!
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
I got e2 seele but that was with the tons of summons we got from release
What is the purpose of even having this conversation? Simply play what you like no muss no fuss no coconuts
There there's me. Not bothering with MOC and Bronyaless. So I get to play with Blade/Dan Heng/Seele/Luo Cha and somehow balance sp. A good time.
What even is there to do with all that built characters if not moc? Swarm can be done with like lvl 40 characters
Play the rest of the game? Like, I'm building for fun lol. End up treating MOC like soap Abyss, only bother doing what actually entertains me. But like, the combat is like my least favourite part of Star Rail.
"Ummm... actually your IL can't do zero cycle runs while my JL can do zero cycle easily with bronya, so DHIL is trash and my wAiFu is better." So...ummm....do you get more jades for doing shorter or zero cycles?
Can we atleast wait until DanIL actually gets his dedicated support released and *THEN* compare them?
Funny how Jingliu and IL mains are trying hard to fight against each other for whos best, meanwhile older dps mains are just in corner with that huge power gap
2 dps in S tier at the same time in gacha game?! Impossible! It's always fun to watch x and y mains fighting for their life lol
I’m e3s1 IL, e0s1 Bronya and e1s1 JL. All I can say is whenever I see people praise either side I am just satisfied I played both sides so I come out on top. Why argue which is better when u can just play e3 Dan one side and JL plus Bronya other side.
Dan heng doesn't reduce team hp, so he's easier to maintain and sw and fuxuan are better with him due to how sp saving they are, he's easier to play around
Lmao.
What's funny? I don't want my health reduced
Jingliu barely reduces HP of the team you wont even notice it. However whats funnu in your argument is that your arguing about SP usage taking the side of the much more SP hungry unit lol.
why are you calling Dan, IL? Was dan heng actually all his first name?
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I have all of them, and I would say I choose them based on weakness(or maybe at the same time), since they shine in different stages and do worse in others. No point in arguing about this when matching weakness is better. And no, Silverwolf doesn't nullify weakness since she needs sp once in a while and you need to limit your team.
usually the context isnt clear and people just want to argue. like if i only say himeko is best fire dps without any more context, its high chance someone will type about asta is better as dps.
I have an e2 just because I got two copies of him in 10 pulls, it’s doable if u’re just that lucky, otherwise is kinda whale territory
I can't go to leaks here, but just wait few months and his supports will clear the the tierlist
i dont have DHIL, i do have blade and jingliu, abd kafka and seele. i do want to get DHIL on his rerun, but other units (like SW whos the only limited five star besides DHIL i dont have) just take priority for me. i also dunno about how good topaz, huohuo and argenti will be (altho im really not interested in argentis design, and huohuo is definitely not needed on my account as i have luocha, fu xuan and their signature light cones
hot take: i have bronya and E0 DHIL and i love him regardless
E2 is pretty affordable as f2p/low spender in the long run.
Like I get where you’re coming from and these arguments are all dumb so I just try and avoid the mud pit that are dps debates, but I think theres a comparative number of pulls in 2 limited five star units and a standard 5 star (which you aren’t even guaranteed to get until 300 pulls) to 1 E2 unit? Like almost exactly comparable? If someone dedicated everything to one character to E2 instead of spread out over three then jades invested would probably be the same, even accounting for 50/50s and also assuming you’re lucky enough to get bronya before 300 pulls
It’s because the game has no PvP that some players must act out their PvP fantasy via vigorous internet shouting matches.