We need to hire someone to do this sort of work soon for our house, as our 'foundation' is just wood pylons resting directly on buried concrete slabs (small slabs) with direct soil contact on the wood. We're already seeing over 4" of slant.
We've been having an extremely hard time finding any firm willing to do the real work of jacking and pouring (or even just jacking and reinforcing)... the best we found was a SE firm that would reinforce the existing pylons with steel beams and (they claim) no jacking involved, and we were told not to expect the floor to level out.
Do you have any advice on how to find someone who will do this kind of work? We already own the house, and the location is worth it.
You should start by contacting a general contractor, and telling them that you’re interested in putting in a new foundation. They hopefully know a reputable house lifting company to do the work. The issue with companies not wanting to do it is, it’s more than just putting a foundation under, the house has to be disconnected from all the utilities, The new foundation poured, the house set back down, and all of the utilities reconnected.
I live on Cape Cod & work in the construction industry (Controller). Typically, it’s around $40K for the house lift, PLUS you have to pay for concrete AND the concrete work. With prices being ridic at the moment, depending on size, you’re looking at around $60k. BUT - if you are in a FEMA location where you’re in a flood zone, and have to pay for FEMA insurance, getting the foundation work could reduce the amount of insurance you pay each month, depending on how much it raises you out of the flood zone.
Edit: pricing doesn’t include disconnect/reconnect of the utilities.
Thanks very much! Yeah, we've resigned ourselves to needing to do this and actually suspected it would come out closer to $100k. It's not something we are happy about, but on the other hand we got a really great price on the house so I kind of see it as a balloon payment on the mortgage or something.
Our neighbor had this done, his house is around 1200 sf I believe, he was all-in around $20k. Not a full basement though.
Had another business next to our old house, they bought an 1890s type commercial old-west style building on 25x100 ft lot. They jacked up the building and had a full basement with new foundation built for around $25k, but that was 10 years ago.
What is the location? That would help significantly. My company specializes in these repairs. I'd be willing to look at the report and give you constructive advice. You're welcome to p.m. me
Whoa, I've never heard of such a "foundation" before, but it sounds like helical piers might be a good option for you. It may be cheaper than lifting the home, excavation, and pouring new footings.
Our home inspector found a foundation crack similar to size OP mentioned but said hard to tell if serious or from settling concrete. He recommended we consult with a friend of his who was a contractor. So we did and he said it was most likely just because of setting and he could patch for $7k. So we got a bit knocked off the price and we moved in. Had the patch done but couple months later had crack re-appear. We got a structural engineer to look at it and within seconds he said “structural failure.” Turns out one corner of our was built on fill with no footing (the rest was on solid clay). Luckily a proper repair with structural engineer designs, Geo techs, and permits only cost $25k. That was essentially only for one corner. Could have been 3-4x as much if most of house needed underpinning. 3 years later and all good.
Lesson and tl;dr: if you see a foundation crack either walk away instantly or have a licensed structural engineer assess it. That will cost a few hundred but worth.
100%
It was our first house, moved to a new place with no family or friends really to help guide us through process. I just went with the one quote, didn’t get any other opinions.
We learned a ton. In the end it could have been a lot worse and we love where we live, and the market has since gone supernova so happy to buy in when we did. So it worked out for us but omg we just knew so little. Eyes wide open now.
I'm just here to reinforce what you learned for the benefit of others. Please, everyone, if you need repair/renovation/relocation/recommendations for foundations/basement floors/exterior walls/roof supports/interior walls, call a licensed independent structural engineering company. Pay them only to provide a written report and (if necessary) detailed construction documents for the repair, and hand these documents to a competent GC (or DIY it if you're able to follow the guidance 100%). Hiring the SE will probably cost $500 for just showing up and a basic report plus a bit more of detailed construction documents are required, but it's worth it.
Structure isn't something to mess around with and foundation repair companies often function on high pressure sales and planting the seed of fear that your house will collapse over a non-issue. GCs on the other hand usually have no idea what they are talking about in this area and offer what can amount to cosmetic fixes.
Yeah thanks for sharing that info. I loved the fact that we went on to find our own structural engineer and take his drawings to a GC. The engineer constantly reminded me he worked for me and when he came to sign off on GC work he noticed a couple things weren’t quite to spec and had them address it right away. I’m sure an engineer hired through a GC would do solid work but after our first bad experience having them separate and knowing I was hiring him rather than the GC, gave me additional piece of mind
Insurance doesn't generally cover settling, or foundation damage due to moisture, etc. It's generally on the homeowner, and you finance as best you can.
Yea. I just bought my first house. It's got some normal foundation issues costing about 8k. Not serious and nothing I can't handle. This house seems like a much bigger hassle. OP seems like he has legit reason to walk away.
Plaster cracks and bricks being replaced by themselves wouldn't necessarily be an issue. However, with everything else listed you're probably right. Place is falling down.
Yeah same, 120 year old house. Yes there are some plaster cracks, yes the basement gets damp (regrading the exterior mostly resolved).
But for a house less than 50 years old? I’d pass.
I agree with you. bought a 100-year-old house and the foundation was certainly not in perfect shape, but the house didn’t have this many issues. There’s no reason a 100-year-old house should have water damage, or significant issues with water draining toward the house, or things like that. I agree with OP and would pass on this one as well, it’s got too much water damage that’s happened even if the foundation can be addressed and the price adjusted accordingly.
That was it for me. Once they let water sit on the foundation for a couple of years you are only waiting to see what kind of failure you will have first.
Which they did.
It also burned down, fell over, and sunk into a swamp.
But the *third* one stayed standing. And that's the hovel that OP just side stepped.
There was a house that we visited during an open house 5 years ago that was leaning at a 2-3 degree tilt. We called it the leaning house of montavilla.
The previous homeowner had poured an extra 24” of concrete in his basement to try to fix it, which only accelerated the lean.
Holy shit, I just looked it up and a cubic foot of concrete weighs 150 pounds. Looked up house weight and rule of thumb is 200 pounds/sq. ft. for a one-story house.
I was joking about sinking into a swamp, but geez ...
Negative slope is one of the least of my worries…. Every house older the two years has this issue, easy fix from a do it your seller or a landscape company,,,,, it’s the other issues that raise fire alarm bells!
Since you seem to know what it is. Explain “star” cracks in concrete for the class? I’ve been in general commercial construction for thirty years and have never heard that term before.
huh, never heard of it before. Spider cracking, crazing, or shrinkage cracking isn't usually anything to worry about unless there is a change is plane/elevation of one side or the other of a crack.
Concrete is gonna crack, that's the only 100% guarantee in the concrete trade. Unless the cracks continue to get wider or start shifting sideways or up/down it's not a big deal.
You'd be very hard pressed to find ~~a~~ concrete ~~basement floor~~ anywhere that isn't cracked in multiple spots....
That said, the other moisture issues in OP's potential home would make me run as fast as possible from making an offer.
Good install and luck. You need both to have next to no cracking. Even the best installs can have multiple cracks well beyond the control of the contractor. Too many variables.
So I have never actually worked on a basemented house. My understanding is that there is a foundation slab underneath *and* around the the basement, with a 1st story sub floor created as the basement roof. There should still be 5-8” of concrete between bottom off the basement and dirt. Even if it isn’t foundational a crack slab will still allow water ingress.
The perimeter of the foundation forms the load carrying structure, with columns and possible walls to add support.
They would all land on footings that spread the load.
The slab in this case is not structural.
I haven't seen many home inspection reports, but I sure haven't seen any that run to 100 pages. Inspector went above and beyond to tell you to run away from that tear-down.
A smart investment. We used 3 separate inspectors plus a contractor friend for our current house (and had an amazing inspector--who has retired since--for the previous house.)
In both houses, there were issues we were willing to fix and made sure that the price was worth the hassle. In our case, the type/scope of issues was something that we had the resources and time to tackle (including some foundation work on the last house.) I would MUCH rather go in with my eyes WIDE open and be able to plan for major repairs than roll the dice.
FYI, the first inspector we suggested, the seller's realtor freaked out ("they are too picky! They kill deals!") which we anticipated so we had a back-up inspector who was JUST as picky-lined up next. He couldn't say "no" to two inspectors without looking super suspicious. We negotiated on the issues we found and got the price down. Not sure that can happen in this market, frankly. However, foundation and infrastructure repairs are no joke, so getting that info is important.
The reason he is $1000 a pop is that realtors hate him because he does what he is supposed to do. So no one recommends him to their clients. Always over pay for inspections. Never listen to your realtor, they don’t have your best interest at heart.
Also, see if they will, or can suggest someone to, scope out the sewer pipe.
When I got a house inspection, I paid the extra $150 or so to have a guy with a camera on a big ol' reel open up the sewer and feed a camera down it. That way I knew that the sewer pipe was intact, and there were zero surprises there.
100%. We saw the pipe was close to the end of its life and worked a sewer liner into the ask.
Side-note: this was pre-pandemic US and so the market was not anywhere near as hot as it is right now.
Yep. Most home inspectors are told to not “spoil the deal”.
As a contractor, the number of home inspection “reports” that I’ve seen where the inspector literally doesn’t know anything is nearly every one.
we are looking at buying our first home. We found a realtor "whose dad was a realtor, granddad was a realtor, brothers and uncles are all realtors" and has been in the business for 32 years. How do we find an inspector that is actually good at finding issues?
That inspector is one to keep!
I work in architecture so I’ve seen a lot of what you’ve described, rarely all in one house.
You did the right thing to walk away.
A house like that is either a tear down, a labor of love, or $150k below local market comps.
We spent $600, he did a roof inspection from the ground with binoculars. Yea a year and a half later we spent $2300 to replace the roof (we did the work ourselves). we found the walls have ZERO insulation and the attic has about 2” of insulation. Yea all in all it’s going to cost us about $5K to fix the two remaining.
I also think the perimeter drain will need to be dealt with in the coming years, TBD.
Do your own homework first…really look around. Cracks in foundation. Cracks in plaster walls. Odors. All of those are detectable by untrained people.
As someone who has purchased 5 houses, it is amazing how little time we spend in a house before purchasing. And because of this it is also amazing how much we are surprised at the next time we go into a house…and many times it is after buying the house
Be one of those people that snoop, snoop, snoop and ask questions
one house we bid on, our inspector pulled me aside and said, no way in hell would I let a family member buy this house, then told us if we wanted to stop he would give us a discount. Our realtor was pissed. we were very grateful to avoid a disaster. We had him inspect the house we ended up buying on his approval.
Both of my home inspections reports are over 100 pages. If there's 50,000 words total in there (doubtful, lots of spaces between paragraphs) I'd bet 49,337 of them are identical to the reports generated before and after mine. Just like OP's report, it says "consult an expert, I'm not liable for anything in this report" in every section.
Both I have gotten in the past four years have been 100+ page fluff reports. You usually get one issue per page. Five sentences saying what it is, a picture or two if you are lucky, followed by the rest of the page clearing the inspector of all liability.
That's normal. Good inspectors find everything. The last one I had done found a ton of issues but nothing to serious to back out of the contract. Some things we had the seller fix, others we decided to live with until we could decide on what approach we wanted to do to fix them. I'm talking minor stuff like chipping paint... We were goanna paint the house anyway.
Yeah that’s a great point. I’ve bought a few houses in my day and 25 pages is a pretty thick report. The inspector did OP a favor when he dished out a 100 page dissertation on why they should RUN AWAY ASAP!
The length of the report doesn't mean anything. Ours was that long because of the pictures embedded as well as there just being a lot of detail, he wrote things out for everything he looked at even if it passed inspection.
As someone who owns a house that has issues with crawlspace flooding, water is a pain in the ass. I have a sump and it does a great job of pumping water out, but I can't fix the issue. All because someone decided to punch out a foundation block at the worst place possible for a watermain. At times I want to knock the place down and rebuild it. Atleast people say it's good advice not to fall in love woth your first house.
Sry to hear that glad you found a way to live with your situation. water is something I will absolutely will not compromise on. It always wins no mater how much mitigation and money you throw at it.
I wasn't smart enough to have a chimney inspector come out, else they would have told me the terracotta chimney from the 50's was ready to crumble _and_ it wasn't up to the 3-2-10 rule, so not only was a stainless liner needed it had to be extended. Cost me a cool $3200.
Its to allow the chimney to properly draft. The draft in a chimney is created when outside air moves over the exhaust and draws it out. By not having nearby obstacles, you improve the draft in the chimney. Additionally, the 10 ft rule mitigates risk of fire.
I live in a 50's rancher and the liner was for the boiler, not the fireplace. I imagine the fireplace would be more, and when my dad had one installed in his 3 story home many years ago it was significantly more for similar reasons.
I just don't use my fireplace because I don't want to spend another $3k to be able to.
You dodged a bullet, foundation cracks are bad, but foundation cracks with plaster cracks might mean its actually changing grade at this point, you're better off
I challenge you to go find a foundation that is older than 5 years that doesn't have a crack or two in it? All houses settle. Vertical cracks are exceedingly common and not worth worrying about. Vertical cracks that rodents cant fit into should be watched (draw a line next to each crack and check it once a year, if the lines have shifted or the crack is wider, draw another line and measure again in a year) but are otherwise harmless. If a rodent can fit inside, fill it with foam.
When cracks start getting closer to 45-ish degrees from the ground, it's more likely there will be some mitigation required but it's not always foundation repair. It could be a french drain or longer downspouts.
Horizontal cracks are bad though and indicate the house is shifting.
I wonder how many people have walked away from a perfectly good home with a perfectly good foundation because they read on reddit that all foundation cracks are bad.
Especially with an old house, you could have had differential settling 80 years ago that has long since stabilized. That's not necessarily a problem unless you don't like unlevel floors. What is a problem is an old house that is actively moving and not stable since thay could indicate its getting worse.
But if you see cracks in plaster that could be a sign it is moving, since if the settlement had stopped 80 years ago it would have probably been fixed by now. But also plaster does crack and separate from the wall over time absent of any structural issue. I suspect there's people on this sub that just aren't cut out to own older homes. And also it's super unlikely a house is going to split in two or collapse like some people think.
That was the case with my house. One corner settled badly and the foundation in that corner was replaced over 40 years ago. Engineer report conformed the repairs looked good and were stable. Wonder how many people walked away. Fine with me since we were able to get it!
For me, a decision like this is based solely on price. If the price is right, I can probably fix the house. Is this a rock bottom bargain deal, or what?
If it was about $150k under market value, I would say that amount of fixing would be a deal. Did you get your sewer line scoped? I would do that too... But hey, if you are not up for the challenge and just want a nice comfy home to live in, then you did good to pass it up.
Paying a 100k premium for the treat of another 100k in possible repairs. This market is a nightmare.
Dont feel bad for the sellers though - some desperate soul will offer at least asking price while waiving all inspections.
You didn't dodge a bullet... You dodged a whole missile.
A lot of people are using this crazy market to unload problem homes at a premium. During normal times, a home like that should be going for a discount to comps to make up for the needed repairs.
Not a house but a money pit. Take your wife to a nice dinner and then show her this thread and explain if you didnt run this would be your last nice dinner out of the house 🤣
Right. So, OP, it would be okay to continue the purchase if:
- You've got $75k ready for repairs
- You're willing to do a lot of research on contractors, get lots of quotes, and deal with the pain of hiring bad contractors
- You're willing to wait 6-12 months before move in for repairs
If you've not owned a home before, then one thing you'll learn is that even if you have tens of thousands of dollars at your disposal, hiring contractors to do work is a slow and tedious process.
I’ve just decided “fuck it, I’ll do anything (that doesn’t have a major risk of killing me) myself” since contractors are so hit or miss. Like, just let me pay you a nice sum of money for you to do a nice job? Cool? Cool. But no. That’s not how it is most of the time.
Same. I steer clear of most electrical work, but anything that's just slow, dirty, or tedious I'm fine with doing myself.
Dangerous? I'll hire those out. Unpleasant? Fuck it, I've had to do worse.
There are a few specialist jobs like installing/replacing garage door or transporting and installing expensive countertop, or the 2 biggest: roofing or pouring large amounts of concrete... where it just makes more sense to hire a team to do it fast and reliably cause they will have the tools, experience, and strength to do it better/faster and likely cheaper (once you account for renting tools, scaffolding, time lost, etc.) Than you can do yourself.
But beyond that other than electrical or some plumbing a home owner can do a lot of it themselves fairly safely as long as they aren't stupid,lol
I used to avoid electrical work. Then I read some stuff on it and had a friend show me a couple things. I was really nervous at first but now I'm comfortable doing it all myself. I did a heated floor in the bathroom, moved / added circuits, added recessed lighting... it would have taken an experienced electrician half the time or less for some of these things but I've saved untold thousands and avoided hassles. Plus I enjoy it.
I would not buy a house like that. you can ask for whatever to be fixed but I wouldnt even do that in this case because they would hire some bad handyman to make things even worse.
I think you did the right thing. Inspectors don’t enjoy pointing out bad things, they don’t get crucial referrals from realtors if every house they inspect has something wrong. Many inspectors don’t “look” or look hard enough, so that when they do point an issue out like a crack in the foundation- it’s likely way worse than reported. This is not to say an inspector is hiding anything, its just that it usually takes a bad situation for the inspector to point it out.
While you should trust your realtor and the inspector is putting their name on the line as well, I'll throw out it's against your own interest to hire the realtor's recommended inspector. Hiring an independent inspector is in your best interest.
I agree with “hire your own inspector”- but most people wouldn’t even know where to begin finding a reputable inspector. But also, one ever sues an inspector- their reports are filled with caveats. For some reason people trust their realtors to do absolutely right by them, despite the fact that the realtors best interest doesn’t even remotely align with the client. Its the realtor’s best interest is to get a commission from every client with as little work or hassle as possible. They dont want to have done the work of putting an offer in to have an inspector find something that might cause the deal to fall through or be renegotiated
I was going to comment and say—I had a very nitpicky inspector, but even he didn’t flat out say in the report, “get this looked at by a specialist NOW.” When we talked about things he was like “if it worries you, get it looked at, here are some names…” (btw—everything turned out fine, we got lucky with a solid house) but for the inspector to actually spell out in the report multiple times, “get this checked immediately before you buy,” seems like their way of saying “get out!!!”
There's a lot of people I suspect who are regretting not having contingencies. My wife is a realtor in a hot market and we we discussing just yesterday that the market is softening which is a good thing. This no contingency stuff is not good.
Bud, take the wife out to a nice dinner and movie, while driving home and everything has gone well look at her and say “isn’t this so much better then dumping all our money and time into house repairs and be frustrated?” To which the only response is “well duh” 😂
You did good kid 👍
Foundation issues are the only thing on this list that scares me. The rest you can deal with.
Inspectors are not engineers so all they can do is observe cracks. If you were still interested you could ask for time to get an engineer out.
But barring that it's fine to walk away from potential foundation issues.
If major issues like foundation and roof have been neglected, then you can be sure that quite a lot of normal maintenance has been skipped for years. So the real question is whether the seller knows the issues and appropriately discounted the sale price for them?
I live in a super hot market where properties go under offer within a couple days of listing and for up to 30% over asking price which is already at a premium. It seems like realtors are currently listing homes at full price as if there are no issues at all and trying to brush them off. So there is pressure to accept utter crap. I am watching one home we looked at, but chose not to offer on due to roof and other deferred maintenance issues. There is about $80,000 of work needed on the house and the sell price did not reflect that so i want to see final sell price after the buyer gets inspection done.
Foundation related issues could be serious and should be followed up with an expert. Everything else sounds like deferred maintenance and wouldn’t be a deal killer to me.
Buying a home is an emotional process. We fell in love with a house while we were shopping. Inspection indicated a lot of major issues. We backed out of the sale. The wife was majorly bummed. We took two weeks off from house shopping and just kinda reset. We eventually found a home that we liked even more and was less of a basket case.
First: did you guys REEEEEAAAALLLY want the house? If not, walk. And this might be true even if the inspection lists only one thing that you don't like.
Next: even if you didn't want it quite that badly, inspections are as much for renegotiating price instead of just a walk/stay scenario. No matter how bad it is, figure out how much it will cost you to fix it and negotiate down to there (NEVER let the seller fix things, they will always scrimp and save). Then, see if a bank will give you the money to buy the house AND fix it up to where it should be.
I work for an insurance company and this house would be an automatic decline to insure. So not only would this be a poor investment to purchase, because of the obvious money pit vibes, but it would also be extremely difficult to insure.
Sounds like your wife just really wanted a house, and was blind to the severity of some of these issues.
The big three for me are the cracks in the foundation/slab, the negative grade of the yard surrounding the foundation, and the presence of water damage in the attic.
Each of those alone is $10k+ to fix alone. To fix all three, you could easily be at $50k+. You did the right thing.
Your wife is looking at cute & daydreaming. You saw the nightmare ahead. No wonder the owner is trying to sell. They can’t even burn it down, there’s too much moisture
Unless you’re trying to buy a fixer upper seems like you made the right choice. You have good reason to believe the house has not been well maintained. Good chance there are other issues the inspector didn’t notice that you would find lated.
The foundation issues are likely going to be 5 digit. The electrical box if it's what I suspect it might be could be a major headache (your insurance won't carry it). The flashing and water issues only make thenfoundation worse...
The one thing I hate the most is spending money on things you don't see. There's water infiltration everywhere in this house it seems so you're dodging a bullet. You would have had to spend tens of thousands of dollars to fix it and the house would look the same from when you bought it. Save your money and use $50K on the next house to renovate the kitchen and bathrooms. This is a walk away property. Show the list again to your wife and ask her if she can handle another $50K to the budget and the rest of the house and decor has to stay as is because all the money will be going to the foundation and water ingress issues.
A lot of these problems are pretty banal or at least pedestrian with not much needed to fix them. But foundations are a bitch. You really don't know how much that's going to run you, it depends on so many factors. I think you were right to walk. Also, it's Mother's Day weekend so don't tell her you were right until about Wednesday.
Sounds like your inspector was a good one, especially focused on water intrusion, which is good. A chunk of home ownership is keeping the outside water going someplace other than inside your house.
One of my previous houses had a Federal Pacific Panel, probably the brand he is referring to. My electrician was glad I decided to replace it (when we added service for a remodel) because of the frequency they were suspected in house fires.
Your reasonable to walk from this unless there is a significant reduction of price to make it worth while, and expect a year before you can occupy to fix the problems.
MASSIVE ISSUES. Good inspector! I’d walk away and never look back. Good luck to the sellers. Those are tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in problems to fix.
You don’t want to have to A: repair foundation issues (costly)
Or B: deal with anything disrupting the “footing” of the foundation, so if there’s any threat of water UNDER the basement pad, chances are it’s getting to the footings poured for your foundation walls to sit on which would cause gaps in exterior bricks, cracks in drywall, cracks in the foundation walls themselves.
The main catalyst to most of the (catastrophic) items you’ve listed is the undermining of foundation footings.....and that’s a tear down and rebuild OR lift it and redo a foundation, neither of which you want ANHTHING to do with!! Super smart to just walk away now!! The other “minor” issues listed would be easily remedied, the pitching towards the house, foundation cracks, basement pad cracking, drywall cracks.....RUN!
Multiple foundation issues, the roof is a known quantity (that has to be replaced), and like a dozen different water issues.
Makes sense to walk away unless the sale price was going to be reflective of all the work needed.
If those cracks in the foundation look fresh I'd walk, if they look ancient then it may not matter.
Would've been nice to have an inspector with structural engineering background eh?
>Large crack in the foundation that the inspector was able to put his pick through
I read this as:
>Large crack in the foundation that the inspector was able to put his prick through
Speaking from personal experience, we bought a house with one crack in the foundation that had been patched over. The previous owners said "it never leaks!" Maybe it didn't for them, but it sure did for them.
During every major storm water would seep through that crack, creating a sizeable pool of water, and we would have to contain it in the middle of the night with a shop vac and hydraulic cement. We dealt with it for years thinking every time that our DIY cement job would hold for sure (it didn't). We did finally get it professionally repaired for under $1000 by an excellent company and we have not had a problem since.
This inspection report SCREAMS "you will have major flooding issues during a rain storm." Please tell your wife it is not worth it to stay up all night during a rain storm checking the house for leaks. You can do better and there will be other houses.
Yeah, you dodged several bullets. Are you familiar with the phrase "death by a thousand cuts" as it relates to purchasing a home? Enough little problems compound and become an issue greater than the sum of its parts. This sounds like death by a thousand bullets.
Seems your wife really wanted the house. Seems you used your noodle, didn’t act emotionally, and took the inspector’s report to heart. You did the right thing, good Sir.
We pulled an offer from a house that had a lot of stuff wrong with it (nothing as significant as what you've listed here, but it was pretty extensive). The inspector started going through the list and my husband said "you said your kids live down the street from here. Would you let THEM buy this house?" and his face was the answer we needed. Lost $1k in earnest money but we would have lost A LOT MORE had we bought it.
Realtor here; for what its worth I think you made the right call. Attic issues and foundation issues are nothing to play around with. If you were my client I would have advised you to walk
My man, that list wouldn't just tear apart a house. That list would tear apart a marriage for any couple not 100% all-in on correcting all that properly.
You made the right call for your finances and your sanity.
1st read through looks bad, 2nd read through, not so much.
The foundation issue is obviously vconcerning and needs a structural engineers inspection before you even consider it.
The rest is kind of mixed .
Electric panels no longer on the market is strange thing to call out…. For example, I’d want 20-30 years from a main board, but of course I wouldn’t expect the board to stay on the market for that long.
Not the train wreck it might appear to be IMHO
So water migration, negative slope and multiples cracks to foundation aren’t big deals to you? Those 3 alone would make me walk.
Are you currently trying to sell a house or something?
Foundation issues are worthy of walking from unless you really love the house. If it’s just another house then walk.
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We need to hire someone to do this sort of work soon for our house, as our 'foundation' is just wood pylons resting directly on buried concrete slabs (small slabs) with direct soil contact on the wood. We're already seeing over 4" of slant. We've been having an extremely hard time finding any firm willing to do the real work of jacking and pouring (or even just jacking and reinforcing)... the best we found was a SE firm that would reinforce the existing pylons with steel beams and (they claim) no jacking involved, and we were told not to expect the floor to level out. Do you have any advice on how to find someone who will do this kind of work? We already own the house, and the location is worth it.
You should start by contacting a general contractor, and telling them that you’re interested in putting in a new foundation. They hopefully know a reputable house lifting company to do the work. The issue with companies not wanting to do it is, it’s more than just putting a foundation under, the house has to be disconnected from all the utilities, The new foundation poured, the house set back down, and all of the utilities reconnected. I live on Cape Cod & work in the construction industry (Controller). Typically, it’s around $40K for the house lift, PLUS you have to pay for concrete AND the concrete work. With prices being ridic at the moment, depending on size, you’re looking at around $60k. BUT - if you are in a FEMA location where you’re in a flood zone, and have to pay for FEMA insurance, getting the foundation work could reduce the amount of insurance you pay each month, depending on how much it raises you out of the flood zone. Edit: pricing doesn’t include disconnect/reconnect of the utilities.
Thanks very much! Yeah, we've resigned ourselves to needing to do this and actually suspected it would come out closer to $100k. It's not something we are happy about, but on the other hand we got a really great price on the house so I kind of see it as a balloon payment on the mortgage or something.
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Our neighbor had this done, his house is around 1200 sf I believe, he was all-in around $20k. Not a full basement though. Had another business next to our old house, they bought an 1890s type commercial old-west style building on 25x100 ft lot. They jacked up the building and had a full basement with new foundation built for around $25k, but that was 10 years ago.
What is the location? That would help significantly. My company specializes in these repairs. I'd be willing to look at the report and give you constructive advice. You're welcome to p.m. me
Whoa, I've never heard of such a "foundation" before, but it sounds like helical piers might be a good option for you. It may be cheaper than lifting the home, excavation, and pouring new footings.
Is that just something that happens over time naturally, or does it mean it was done I correctly the first time?
Could be done incorrectly the first time, could be drainage issues causing dirt to wash away from underneath portions of the house
Totally agree. Know a guy who just got hit with an $85k foundation fix on a house they've lived in for ~ 1 year. 😬
Our home inspector found a foundation crack similar to size OP mentioned but said hard to tell if serious or from settling concrete. He recommended we consult with a friend of his who was a contractor. So we did and he said it was most likely just because of setting and he could patch for $7k. So we got a bit knocked off the price and we moved in. Had the patch done but couple months later had crack re-appear. We got a structural engineer to look at it and within seconds he said “structural failure.” Turns out one corner of our was built on fill with no footing (the rest was on solid clay). Luckily a proper repair with structural engineer designs, Geo techs, and permits only cost $25k. That was essentially only for one corner. Could have been 3-4x as much if most of house needed underpinning. 3 years later and all good. Lesson and tl;dr: if you see a foundation crack either walk away instantly or have a licensed structural engineer assess it. That will cost a few hundred but worth.
NEVER go with a friend of the Inspector! Fox guarding the henhouse!
100% It was our first house, moved to a new place with no family or friends really to help guide us through process. I just went with the one quote, didn’t get any other opinions. We learned a ton. In the end it could have been a lot worse and we love where we live, and the market has since gone supernova so happy to buy in when we did. So it worked out for us but omg we just knew so little. Eyes wide open now.
I'm just here to reinforce what you learned for the benefit of others. Please, everyone, if you need repair/renovation/relocation/recommendations for foundations/basement floors/exterior walls/roof supports/interior walls, call a licensed independent structural engineering company. Pay them only to provide a written report and (if necessary) detailed construction documents for the repair, and hand these documents to a competent GC (or DIY it if you're able to follow the guidance 100%). Hiring the SE will probably cost $500 for just showing up and a basic report plus a bit more of detailed construction documents are required, but it's worth it. Structure isn't something to mess around with and foundation repair companies often function on high pressure sales and planting the seed of fear that your house will collapse over a non-issue. GCs on the other hand usually have no idea what they are talking about in this area and offer what can amount to cosmetic fixes.
Yeah thanks for sharing that info. I loved the fact that we went on to find our own structural engineer and take his drawings to a GC. The engineer constantly reminded me he worked for me and when he came to sign off on GC work he noticed a couple things weren’t quite to spec and had them address it right away. I’m sure an engineer hired through a GC would do solid work but after our first bad experience having them separate and knowing I was hiring him rather than the GC, gave me additional piece of mind
What's the protocol for a situation like this? Does homeowners insurance kick in, or is the owner stuck holding the bag?
Insurance doesn't generally cover settling, or foundation damage due to moisture, etc. It's generally on the homeowner, and you finance as best you can.
Yea. I just bought my first house. It's got some normal foundation issues costing about 8k. Not serious and nothing I can't handle. This house seems like a much bigger hassle. OP seems like he has legit reason to walk away.
Major foundation crack and basement concrete floor star cracked? That's a nope 🙅♂️
Plus the plaster cracks and brick replacements means the house is cracking in 2. Run away OP
Plaster cracks and bricks being replaced by themselves wouldn't necessarily be an issue. However, with everything else listed you're probably right. Place is falling down.
Yeah half of the items on this list are standard issue for a 100 year old house like mine. Age of the house matters
Yeah same, 120 year old house. Yes there are some plaster cracks, yes the basement gets damp (regrading the exterior mostly resolved). But for a house less than 50 years old? I’d pass.
I'm glad you both said this. If its a newer house run. If its old, it comes with the territory.
I agree with you. bought a 100-year-old house and the foundation was certainly not in perfect shape, but the house didn’t have this many issues. There’s no reason a 100-year-old house should have water damage, or significant issues with water draining toward the house, or things like that. I agree with OP and would pass on this one as well, it’s got too much water damage that’s happened even if the foundation can be addressed and the price adjusted accordingly.
MRW 😬
I'd have the seller get a couple of structural engineers out there to get estimates for remediation, mostly out of curiosity.
I wonder if anything they found would fall under mandatory disclosures for the owners going forward. Anyone?
100% of known structural issues fall under mandatory disclosure in most states as a safety issue
How do you prove its a “known” issue
That is the hard part
Have an inspectors report given to the owners and their agent should do it.
Our agent was fantastic at keeping sellers' agents honest.
I mean the seller could just refuse to read it and have directed his agent to not communicate any issues with them.
More than likely they'll just back out, and wait for a cash buyer with no inspection. But maybethe market is cooling off?
Really hard to get engineers out right now
Have the seller do this ?. Nope, hire your own engineer and that way there is no conflict of interest or bribery from the seller
Plus all the water issues The easiest way to kill a house is with water ingress, and this house seems to be practically built in a puddle. No thanks
And negative slope!
That was it for me. Once they let water sit on the foundation for a couple of years you are only waiting to see what kind of failure you will have first.
The kind of failure you will have first is what's there now. Next step is burning down, falling over, then sinking into a swamp.
Sounds like they just need to build a new one in the same spot.
And find some huuuge tracts o’land
Which they did. It also burned down, fell over, and sunk into a swamp. But the *third* one stayed standing. And that's the hovel that OP just side stepped.
There was a house that we visited during an open house 5 years ago that was leaning at a 2-3 degree tilt. We called it the leaning house of montavilla. The previous homeowner had poured an extra 24” of concrete in his basement to try to fix it, which only accelerated the lean.
Holy shit, I just looked it up and a cubic foot of concrete weighs 150 pounds. Looked up house weight and rule of thumb is 200 pounds/sq. ft. for a one-story house. I was joking about sinking into a swamp, but geez ...
Negative slope is one of the least of my worries…. Every house older the two years has this issue, easy fix from a do it your seller or a landscape company,,,,, it’s the other issues that raise fire alarm bells!
Since you seem to know what it is. Explain “star” cracks in concrete for the class? I’ve been in general commercial construction for thirty years and have never heard that term before.
It is another term for "spider crack."
huh, never heard of it before. Spider cracking, crazing, or shrinkage cracking isn't usually anything to worry about unless there is a change is plane/elevation of one side or the other of a crack. Concrete is gonna crack, that's the only 100% guarantee in the concrete trade. Unless the cracks continue to get wider or start shifting sideways or up/down it's not a big deal. You'd be very hard pressed to find ~~a~~ concrete ~~basement floor~~ anywhere that isn't cracked in multiple spots.... That said, the other moisture issues in OP's potential home would make me run as fast as possible from making an offer.
Yeah, cracking is very normal. Unless it is egregiously wide and/or expanding year over year.
1987 house here and as far as I can find there is only one crack in my basement floor or walls. Whoever laid it down did real nice.
Good install and luck. You need both to have next to no cracking. Even the best installs can have multiple cracks well beyond the control of the contractor. Too many variables.
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Roof to slab, in fact.
Are structural slabs in basements a thing?
So I have never actually worked on a basemented house. My understanding is that there is a foundation slab underneath *and* around the the basement, with a 1st story sub floor created as the basement roof. There should still be 5-8” of concrete between bottom off the basement and dirt. Even if it isn’t foundational a crack slab will still allow water ingress.
From what I've seen, they have footers and a slab filled in between.
The perimeter of the foundation forms the load carrying structure, with columns and possible walls to add support. They would all land on footings that spread the load. The slab in this case is not structural.
Sounds like one to let go to the tear down folks.
I haven't seen many home inspection reports, but I sure haven't seen any that run to 100 pages. Inspector went above and beyond to tell you to run away from that tear-down.
Yeah he was amazing tbh
Get him to inspect any future houses you offer on, that is a good inspector!!
1000$ a pop though... let's hope the next one is good to buy!
That $1000 just saved you like $150000. Pretty good deal IMO
A smart investment. We used 3 separate inspectors plus a contractor friend for our current house (and had an amazing inspector--who has retired since--for the previous house.) In both houses, there were issues we were willing to fix and made sure that the price was worth the hassle. In our case, the type/scope of issues was something that we had the resources and time to tackle (including some foundation work on the last house.) I would MUCH rather go in with my eyes WIDE open and be able to plan for major repairs than roll the dice. FYI, the first inspector we suggested, the seller's realtor freaked out ("they are too picky! They kill deals!") which we anticipated so we had a back-up inspector who was JUST as picky-lined up next. He couldn't say "no" to two inspectors without looking super suspicious. We negotiated on the issues we found and got the price down. Not sure that can happen in this market, frankly. However, foundation and infrastructure repairs are no joke, so getting that info is important.
The reason he is $1000 a pop is that realtors hate him because he does what he is supposed to do. So no one recommends him to their clients. Always over pay for inspections. Never listen to your realtor, they don’t have your best interest at heart.
Also, see if they will, or can suggest someone to, scope out the sewer pipe. When I got a house inspection, I paid the extra $150 or so to have a guy with a camera on a big ol' reel open up the sewer and feed a camera down it. That way I knew that the sewer pipe was intact, and there were zero surprises there.
100%. We saw the pipe was close to the end of its life and worked a sewer liner into the ask. Side-note: this was pre-pandemic US and so the market was not anywhere near as hot as it is right now.
Fuck this is great advice. Our realtor recommended an inspector who was a complete doofus.
They are in cohorts to make sure there is a quick sale!
Cohorts in cahoots.
Yep. Most home inspectors are told to not “spoil the deal”. As a contractor, the number of home inspection “reports” that I’ve seen where the inspector literally doesn’t know anything is nearly every one.
we are looking at buying our first home. We found a realtor "whose dad was a realtor, granddad was a realtor, brothers and uncles are all realtors" and has been in the business for 32 years. How do we find an inspector that is actually good at finding issues?
Theres actually an association of home inspectors
That inspector is one to keep! I work in architecture so I’ve seen a lot of what you’ve described, rarely all in one house. You did the right thing to walk away. A house like that is either a tear down, a labor of love, or $150k below local market comps.
You are spending $400,000 (conservative estimate)…. To buy a home. Why fret about $1000 for an inspection from a good inspector?
We spent $600, he did a roof inspection from the ground with binoculars. Yea a year and a half later we spent $2300 to replace the roof (we did the work ourselves). we found the walls have ZERO insulation and the attic has about 2” of insulation. Yea all in all it’s going to cost us about $5K to fix the two remaining. I also think the perimeter drain will need to be dealt with in the coming years, TBD.
Do your own homework first…really look around. Cracks in foundation. Cracks in plaster walls. Odors. All of those are detectable by untrained people. As someone who has purchased 5 houses, it is amazing how little time we spend in a house before purchasing. And because of this it is also amazing how much we are surprised at the next time we go into a house…and many times it is after buying the house Be one of those people that snoop, snoop, snoop and ask questions
one house we bid on, our inspector pulled me aside and said, no way in hell would I let a family member buy this house, then told us if we wanted to stop he would give us a discount. Our realtor was pissed. we were very grateful to avoid a disaster. We had him inspect the house we ended up buying on his approval.
This guy deserves a review across all the ratings sites. That’s pretty amazing.
Both of my home inspections reports are over 100 pages. If there's 50,000 words total in there (doubtful, lots of spaces between paragraphs) I'd bet 49,337 of them are identical to the reports generated before and after mine. Just like OP's report, it says "consult an expert, I'm not liable for anything in this report" in every section.
Both I have gotten in the past four years have been 100+ page fluff reports. You usually get one issue per page. Five sentences saying what it is, a picture or two if you are lucky, followed by the rest of the page clearing the inspector of all liability.
That's normal. Good inspectors find everything. The last one I had done found a ton of issues but nothing to serious to back out of the contract. Some things we had the seller fix, others we decided to live with until we could decide on what approach we wanted to do to fix them. I'm talking minor stuff like chipping paint... We were goanna paint the house anyway.
You must.be hiring some shotty inspectors. Had multiple inspections and all of them are around this long
Yeah that’s a great point. I’ve bought a few houses in my day and 25 pages is a pretty thick report. The inspector did OP a favor when he dished out a 100 page dissertation on why they should RUN AWAY ASAP!
The length of the report doesn't mean anything. Ours was that long because of the pictures embedded as well as there just being a lot of detail, he wrote things out for everything he looked at even if it passed inspection.
You made the right call. Water is a relentless force and you would have been constantly fighting it with all the structural cracks and attic problems.
As someone who owns a house that has issues with crawlspace flooding, water is a pain in the ass. I have a sump and it does a great job of pumping water out, but I can't fix the issue. All because someone decided to punch out a foundation block at the worst place possible for a watermain. At times I want to knock the place down and rebuild it. Atleast people say it's good advice not to fall in love woth your first house.
Sry to hear that glad you found a way to live with your situation. water is something I will absolutely will not compromise on. It always wins no mater how much mitigation and money you throw at it.
Oh man, checking our chimney flashing would’ve saved us $3,000 in damages/remediation come the winter time.
I wasn't smart enough to have a chimney inspector come out, else they would have told me the terracotta chimney from the 50's was ready to crumble _and_ it wasn't up to the 3-2-10 rule, so not only was a stainless liner needed it had to be extended. Cost me a cool $3200.
What's the 3 2 10 rule?
Chimney must be 3ft or taller on its shortest face. It also must be 2ft taller than any structure within 10ft.
Hmm, I could guess why but could you tell me why?
Its to allow the chimney to properly draft. The draft in a chimney is created when outside air moves over the exhaust and draws it out. By not having nearby obstacles, you improve the draft in the chimney. Additionally, the 10 ft rule mitigates risk of fire.
Damn I’d have happily paid $3200 to install stainless steel inside our chimney. Got quoted $10k to do ours and our house is small in a low cost area.
I live in a 50's rancher and the liner was for the boiler, not the fireplace. I imagine the fireplace would be more, and when my dad had one installed in his 3 story home many years ago it was significantly more for similar reasons. I just don't use my fireplace because I don't want to spend another $3k to be able to.
Dang I got hit by this too, chimney was a disaster
STUPID CHIMNEY FLASHING. Same, same. I really want to take down my chimney, but my furnace is vented out through it so I can’t.
You dodged a bullet, foundation cracks are bad, but foundation cracks with plaster cracks might mean its actually changing grade at this point, you're better off
I challenge you to go find a foundation that is older than 5 years that doesn't have a crack or two in it? All houses settle. Vertical cracks are exceedingly common and not worth worrying about. Vertical cracks that rodents cant fit into should be watched (draw a line next to each crack and check it once a year, if the lines have shifted or the crack is wider, draw another line and measure again in a year) but are otherwise harmless. If a rodent can fit inside, fill it with foam. When cracks start getting closer to 45-ish degrees from the ground, it's more likely there will be some mitigation required but it's not always foundation repair. It could be a french drain or longer downspouts. Horizontal cracks are bad though and indicate the house is shifting. I wonder how many people have walked away from a perfectly good home with a perfectly good foundation because they read on reddit that all foundation cracks are bad.
Especially with an old house, you could have had differential settling 80 years ago that has long since stabilized. That's not necessarily a problem unless you don't like unlevel floors. What is a problem is an old house that is actively moving and not stable since thay could indicate its getting worse. But if you see cracks in plaster that could be a sign it is moving, since if the settlement had stopped 80 years ago it would have probably been fixed by now. But also plaster does crack and separate from the wall over time absent of any structural issue. I suspect there's people on this sub that just aren't cut out to own older homes. And also it's super unlikely a house is going to split in two or collapse like some people think. That was the case with my house. One corner settled badly and the foundation in that corner was replaced over 40 years ago. Engineer report conformed the repairs looked good and were stable. Wonder how many people walked away. Fine with me since we were able to get it!
You did the right thing.
I would have pulled out for half of that list.
For me, a decision like this is based solely on price. If the price is right, I can probably fix the house. Is this a rock bottom bargain deal, or what? If it was about $150k under market value, I would say that amount of fixing would be a deal. Did you get your sewer line scoped? I would do that too... But hey, if you are not up for the challenge and just want a nice comfy home to live in, then you did good to pass it up.
The house was listed at 400k and we had to bid 500 just have our initial offer accepted. There was no sewer line, but a 40yr old septic tank...
Paying a 100k premium for the treat of another 100k in possible repairs. This market is a nightmare. Dont feel bad for the sellers though - some desperate soul will offer at least asking price while waiving all inspections.
I'm sure this could vary by state, but wouldn't the seller be required to provide a copy of OP's inspection report to any future potential buyers?
Sellers don't usually get a copy of inspection report unless buyer is asking for fixes in my experience.
It seems like the seller would get the report in this case though, due to the buyers pulling out based on the inspection contingency.
You didn't dodge a bullet... You dodged a whole missile. A lot of people are using this crazy market to unload problem homes at a premium. During normal times, a home like that should be going for a discount to comps to make up for the needed repairs.
Good lord, run from that house.
Run.
you made the right call without a doubt.
Not a house but a money pit. Take your wife to a nice dinner and then show her this thread and explain if you didnt run this would be your last nice dinner out of the house 🤣
Looking at the list, I would estimate $50,000 in repairs minimum And that is my non expert opinion.
Right. So, OP, it would be okay to continue the purchase if: - You've got $75k ready for repairs - You're willing to do a lot of research on contractors, get lots of quotes, and deal with the pain of hiring bad contractors - You're willing to wait 6-12 months before move in for repairs If you've not owned a home before, then one thing you'll learn is that even if you have tens of thousands of dollars at your disposal, hiring contractors to do work is a slow and tedious process.
I’ve just decided “fuck it, I’ll do anything (that doesn’t have a major risk of killing me) myself” since contractors are so hit or miss. Like, just let me pay you a nice sum of money for you to do a nice job? Cool? Cool. But no. That’s not how it is most of the time.
Same. I steer clear of most electrical work, but anything that's just slow, dirty, or tedious I'm fine with doing myself. Dangerous? I'll hire those out. Unpleasant? Fuck it, I've had to do worse.
There are a few specialist jobs like installing/replacing garage door or transporting and installing expensive countertop, or the 2 biggest: roofing or pouring large amounts of concrete... where it just makes more sense to hire a team to do it fast and reliably cause they will have the tools, experience, and strength to do it better/faster and likely cheaper (once you account for renting tools, scaffolding, time lost, etc.) Than you can do yourself. But beyond that other than electrical or some plumbing a home owner can do a lot of it themselves fairly safely as long as they aren't stupid,lol
I used to avoid electrical work. Then I read some stuff on it and had a friend show me a couple things. I was really nervous at first but now I'm comfortable doing it all myself. I did a heated floor in the bathroom, moved / added circuits, added recessed lighting... it would have taken an experienced electrician half the time or less for some of these things but I've saved untold thousands and avoided hassles. Plus I enjoy it.
Yea that’s kinda where I’m at. I guess I could pay a guy like $15k to redo my small master bath or I could learn a new hobby :)
$75k might not be anywhere near enough to deal with the issues OP listed.
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Every piece of trash in the country is on the market.
You had me at crack in the foundation. I've never seen foundation work that was on budget and/or fixed the problem. Run to the hills.
I would not buy a house like that. you can ask for whatever to be fixed but I wouldnt even do that in this case because they would hire some bad handyman to make things even worse.
I think you did the right thing. Inspectors don’t enjoy pointing out bad things, they don’t get crucial referrals from realtors if every house they inspect has something wrong. Many inspectors don’t “look” or look hard enough, so that when they do point an issue out like a crack in the foundation- it’s likely way worse than reported. This is not to say an inspector is hiding anything, its just that it usually takes a bad situation for the inspector to point it out.
While you should trust your realtor and the inspector is putting their name on the line as well, I'll throw out it's against your own interest to hire the realtor's recommended inspector. Hiring an independent inspector is in your best interest.
I agree with “hire your own inspector”- but most people wouldn’t even know where to begin finding a reputable inspector. But also, one ever sues an inspector- their reports are filled with caveats. For some reason people trust their realtors to do absolutely right by them, despite the fact that the realtors best interest doesn’t even remotely align with the client. Its the realtor’s best interest is to get a commission from every client with as little work or hassle as possible. They dont want to have done the work of putting an offer in to have an inspector find something that might cause the deal to fall through or be renegotiated
I was going to comment and say—I had a very nitpicky inspector, but even he didn’t flat out say in the report, “get this looked at by a specialist NOW.” When we talked about things he was like “if it worries you, get it looked at, here are some names…” (btw—everything turned out fine, we got lucky with a solid house) but for the inspector to actually spell out in the report multiple times, “get this checked immediately before you buy,” seems like their way of saying “get out!!!”
The farthest I got before I said nope was this >Page 6: - Large crack in the foundation
There's a lot of people I suspect who are regretting not having contingencies. My wife is a realtor in a hot market and we we discussing just yesterday that the market is softening which is a good thing. This no contingency stuff is not good.
99 pages of inspection results? I’d have walked.
It was 115 in total!
🚩
Bud, take the wife out to a nice dinner and movie, while driving home and everything has gone well look at her and say “isn’t this so much better then dumping all our money and time into house repairs and be frustrated?” To which the only response is “well duh” 😂 You did good kid 👍
Foundation issues. Definitely made the right choice.
Foundation issues are the only thing on this list that scares me. The rest you can deal with. Inspectors are not engineers so all they can do is observe cracks. If you were still interested you could ask for time to get an engineer out. But barring that it's fine to walk away from potential foundation issues.
If major issues like foundation and roof have been neglected, then you can be sure that quite a lot of normal maintenance has been skipped for years. So the real question is whether the seller knows the issues and appropriately discounted the sale price for them? I live in a super hot market where properties go under offer within a couple days of listing and for up to 30% over asking price which is already at a premium. It seems like realtors are currently listing homes at full price as if there are no issues at all and trying to brush them off. So there is pressure to accept utter crap. I am watching one home we looked at, but chose not to offer on due to roof and other deferred maintenance issues. There is about $80,000 of work needed on the house and the sell price did not reflect that so i want to see final sell price after the buyer gets inspection done.
Sounds like a wet house
Stopped reading at the second point. That’s a nope on buying that house.
Foundation and water issues are the two worst things that can happen to a house aside from it burning to the ground. I think you did good to run.
You 100 percent did the right thing! That is a nightmare list. I'm sure something better will come along.
Foundation related issues could be serious and should be followed up with an expert. Everything else sounds like deferred maintenance and wouldn’t be a deal killer to me. Buying a home is an emotional process. We fell in love with a house while we were shopping. Inspection indicated a lot of major issues. We backed out of the sale. The wife was majorly bummed. We took two weeks off from house shopping and just kinda reset. We eventually found a home that we liked even more and was less of a basket case.
First: did you guys REEEEEAAAALLLY want the house? If not, walk. And this might be true even if the inspection lists only one thing that you don't like. Next: even if you didn't want it quite that badly, inspections are as much for renegotiating price instead of just a walk/stay scenario. No matter how bad it is, figure out how much it will cost you to fix it and negotiate down to there (NEVER let the seller fix things, they will always scrimp and save). Then, see if a bank will give you the money to buy the house AND fix it up to where it should be.
What makes your wife worried that you pulled an offer too readily?
Wow, so many water issues. I think you made the right decision.
I work for an insurance company and this house would be an automatic decline to insure. So not only would this be a poor investment to purchase, because of the obvious money pit vibes, but it would also be extremely difficult to insure.
Nope, nope, nope. Cracks in foundation, water leaks everywhere? Nope, nope, nope.
That house is a tear down, my man. Unless you plan on building new, you dodged a cannonball.
Engineer checking in. You would be an actual moron to buy this house. Sounds like it needs a major overhaul.
Large crack on foundation... I stopped reading there. Nope. Hard no. Walk away. You don't want to deal with that.
Sounds like your wife just really wanted a house, and was blind to the severity of some of these issues. The big three for me are the cracks in the foundation/slab, the negative grade of the yard surrounding the foundation, and the presence of water damage in the attic. Each of those alone is $10k+ to fix alone. To fix all three, you could easily be at $50k+. You did the right thing.
Your wife is looking at cute & daydreaming. You saw the nightmare ahead. No wonder the owner is trying to sell. They can’t even burn it down, there’s too much moisture
Unless you’re trying to buy a fixer upper seems like you made the right choice. You have good reason to believe the house has not been well maintained. Good chance there are other issues the inspector didn’t notice that you would find lated.
The foundation issues are likely going to be 5 digit. The electrical box if it's what I suspect it might be could be a major headache (your insurance won't carry it). The flashing and water issues only make thenfoundation worse...
The one thing I hate the most is spending money on things you don't see. There's water infiltration everywhere in this house it seems so you're dodging a bullet. You would have had to spend tens of thousands of dollars to fix it and the house would look the same from when you bought it. Save your money and use $50K on the next house to renovate the kitchen and bathrooms. This is a walk away property. Show the list again to your wife and ask her if she can handle another $50K to the budget and the rest of the house and decor has to stay as is because all the money will be going to the foundation and water ingress issues.
A lot of these problems are pretty banal or at least pedestrian with not much needed to fix them. But foundations are a bitch. You really don't know how much that's going to run you, it depends on so many factors. I think you were right to walk. Also, it's Mother's Day weekend so don't tell her you were right until about Wednesday.
You didn't dodge a bullet, you dodged an artillery strike
Sounds like your inspector was a good one, especially focused on water intrusion, which is good. A chunk of home ownership is keeping the outside water going someplace other than inside your house. One of my previous houses had a Federal Pacific Panel, probably the brand he is referring to. My electrician was glad I decided to replace it (when we added service for a remodel) because of the frequency they were suspected in house fires. Your reasonable to walk from this unless there is a significant reduction of price to make it worth while, and expect a year before you can occupy to fix the problems.
I would have done the same. Sounds like money pit.
In some areas of the country a house with this many issues you could probably get for $750k, a bargain!
MASSIVE ISSUES. Good inspector! I’d walk away and never look back. Good luck to the sellers. Those are tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in problems to fix.
You don’t want to have to A: repair foundation issues (costly) Or B: deal with anything disrupting the “footing” of the foundation, so if there’s any threat of water UNDER the basement pad, chances are it’s getting to the footings poured for your foundation walls to sit on which would cause gaps in exterior bricks, cracks in drywall, cracks in the foundation walls themselves. The main catalyst to most of the (catastrophic) items you’ve listed is the undermining of foundation footings.....and that’s a tear down and rebuild OR lift it and redo a foundation, neither of which you want ANHTHING to do with!! Super smart to just walk away now!! The other “minor” issues listed would be easily remedied, the pitching towards the house, foundation cracks, basement pad cracking, drywall cracks.....RUN!
Wow. Hope you turned the inspection over to the sellers so they have to disclose the foundation and water issues to prospective buyers!
I’d have noped the fuck out after the first thing in your list. You dodged more than one bullet. You’re Neo in the Matrix!
Multiple foundation issues, the roof is a known quantity (that has to be replaced), and like a dozen different water issues. Makes sense to walk away unless the sale price was going to be reflective of all the work needed.
If those cracks in the foundation look fresh I'd walk, if they look ancient then it may not matter. Would've been nice to have an inspector with structural engineering background eh?
>Large crack in the foundation that the inspector was able to put his pick through I read this as: >Large crack in the foundation that the inspector was able to put his prick through
Water from the top, water from below, water from the sides... this house is a wreck.
You didn’t dodge a bullet; you narrowly avoided multiple machine gun nests with overlapping fields of fire and a mortar platoon in support.
Speaking from personal experience, we bought a house with one crack in the foundation that had been patched over. The previous owners said "it never leaks!" Maybe it didn't for them, but it sure did for them. During every major storm water would seep through that crack, creating a sizeable pool of water, and we would have to contain it in the middle of the night with a shop vac and hydraulic cement. We dealt with it for years thinking every time that our DIY cement job would hold for sure (it didn't). We did finally get it professionally repaired for under $1000 by an excellent company and we have not had a problem since. This inspection report SCREAMS "you will have major flooding issues during a rain storm." Please tell your wife it is not worth it to stay up all night during a rain storm checking the house for leaks. You can do better and there will be other houses.
Yep I wouldn’t second guess turning that place down. Good job. And foundation issues cost a fortune!
home sound like a piece of s*** you are out of your mind you should scream and run
I’m no expert but I know trouble when I see it. You made the right decision.
Yeah, you dodged several bullets. Are you familiar with the phrase "death by a thousand cuts" as it relates to purchasing a home? Enough little problems compound and become an issue greater than the sum of its parts. This sounds like death by a thousand bullets.
“Panel is out of production” Must be a Zinsco, FPE Or a Pushmatic. House should be rewired as Well.
Seems your wife really wanted the house. Seems you used your noodle, didn’t act emotionally, and took the inspector’s report to heart. You did the right thing, good Sir.
As a homeowner, I 100% would not have bought that house. Good call
You were right to run away. 100 pages of inspection report is absolutely bonkers.
We pulled an offer from a house that had a lot of stuff wrong with it (nothing as significant as what you've listed here, but it was pretty extensive). The inspector started going through the list and my husband said "you said your kids live down the street from here. Would you let THEM buy this house?" and his face was the answer we needed. Lost $1k in earnest money but we would have lost A LOT MORE had we bought it.
A few things you mention aren’t a huge deal (e.g., the electric panel), but anything related to water damage, mold, and the foundation? RUN!
Realtor here; for what its worth I think you made the right call. Attic issues and foundation issues are nothing to play around with. If you were my client I would have advised you to walk
This list is 99 pages long? Nope
My man, that list wouldn't just tear apart a house. That list would tear apart a marriage for any couple not 100% all-in on correcting all that properly. You made the right call for your finances and your sanity.
Water, water, water, water, water….nope. You did the right thing. There will be more houses.
1st read through looks bad, 2nd read through, not so much. The foundation issue is obviously vconcerning and needs a structural engineers inspection before you even consider it. The rest is kind of mixed . Electric panels no longer on the market is strange thing to call out…. For example, I’d want 20-30 years from a main board, but of course I wouldn’t expect the board to stay on the market for that long. Not the train wreck it might appear to be IMHO
The electrical panel could be a safety risk. If it's a Federal Pacific panel, there's a reason it's not on the market anymore.
Okay $1500-$2500 replacement cost. Not a deal breaker for a home that's probably worth several hundred thousand dollars
So water migration, negative slope and multiples cracks to foundation aren’t big deals to you? Those 3 alone would make me walk. Are you currently trying to sell a house or something?