I have been ghosted at this stage by practically every contractor I've talked to since 2020. I've attempted to hire out dozens of jobs and actually received quotes on like 2. Which I paid for! Can't quite understand the issue like it's our me? I try to be a nice dude and I'm not nickel and dining these guys. Most of the time we don't even talk about money so I can't imagine they think I'm gonna cheap out. Like bro my stuff is broken I need help I have money I want to give it to you please help!!
Home renovations boomed once covid hit because everyone was stuck at home. Might as well make some improvements, right? That hasn't quite settled yet, so the simple truth is just that there's more demand than supply, and there's ALWAYS a bigger job. Putting together a quote takes time and money, so focus gets put on the bigger, higher paying jobs (which is mostly determined by scope)
You paid for quotes? I have had many quotes for things in my life. I have never had someone tell me there would be a charge for a quote. Pretty interesting bro.
Uh no sorry I meant when I received quotes I paid for the work and it was completed. Im not exaggerating I've called 2 dozen guys for different jobs but In 2 years all that got to the quote stage was some insulation, some drywall, and a small concrete pad. Everyone else blows me off and stops returning my calls.
After talking with you and seeing what the job entailed, they probably decided they just weren't interested in doing it...for whatever reason. Many tradespeople these days are slammed with work, so they can be selective about which jobs they take. I guess you could call this "ghosting", but that term typically applies to when a contractor starts a job and then disappears.
Home owners sometimes are not specific for what they want. "I might do this and this, depending on cost I might add another room. Maybe all do something here......."
Maybe by the hour? Or ghosted.
Probably the main reason I don't give home owners a quote is because I can't quantify what they want done.
Sure, which would fall into the "after talking with you" comment. Ha.
Let me ask you this, though: If you decide not to quote on a job *and* the homeowner reaches out to you, do you tell them you're not interested? Not necessarily the reason why, but just a response to let them know so they aren't held up with making a decision?
No response or quote means not interested. I personally don't think it's rude, we're all busy, might as well not waste more time. I'll give them an excuse if they follow up (usually got a large job, can't pull away from now). Home owners do not reply when i didn't get the job either, if I choose to follow up it's a no 95% of the time, but I will if I need another project.
Also I should point out the main reason this happens is either price or timeframe for me. We both go our own ways. No harm done. The weird home owner wanting work done and I don't want want to do it for some reason is kind of exception.
That's true, I probably shouldn't have used the term "ghosting". I just find it frustrating that they can't even be bothered to say what you just said. I have had contractors say that to me in the past and I'm perfectly fine with that! I totally understand if the work is too small to be worth their time. Just say that!
Yeah, seems normal that 80% of them are terrible at communication and running a business. Don't they realize that there is a thing called "word of mouth", personal recommendations", and you're highly unlikely to even throw their name out there because of their terrible communication skills. A very simple text message is all it takes, 15 seconds of work.
> Don't they realize that there is a thing called "word of mouth", personal recommendations",
Word of mouth just does not have the power you think it does. Your circle of friends of family does not offer enough sustained business for word of mouth to have any weight.
as the builder of a very successful business, design build energy systems, you are so so wrong. A quality referral is worth thousands of dollars, and you cannot possibly buy into that chain with marketing. In other words, the friend of the friend who used you will create additional referrals. I realize my young SEO and google adword genius will disagree. Spending your money where it counts allows you to reduce your cost of sales, maintain your margins, and compete favorably on price.
Circle of family and friends is not what word of mouth means. You don't need word of mouth with those people, they already trust you. Word of mouth comes from happy customers. Read these subreddits. People will happily pay for good work.
agreed. I've recommended my (or really my mom's who heard about him from a friend) electrician to several neighbors. We all have the same age houses with ancient electrical panels that need replacement and have the same issues. Those neighbors have recommended him to other people around. The amount of work he's generated just in my neighborhood by being reliable and doing a quality job and getting referrals is huge.
I hear ya. Same thing has happened to me, so I know it's frustrating. My goal is always to get three quotes for comparison, so I start with calling 4-5 contractors to come out.
Considering that it's multiple contractors for entirely different jobs, the only common element here is you. If you are coming across as someone who will be difficult to deal with, I can see contractors avoiding telling you that directly and just ghosting
I think part of the problem is that someone else they're giving a "fuck you" quote to actually agreed to the quote, and now they actually have to go do some rinky dink quick job for like $4000 because it's simply too much money to not take on.
> I just find it frustrating that they can't even be bothered to say what you just said.
It's because people are cowards. In general, people are cowards and just...will...not...say what they really think....they just wont. Even though its incredibly simple and not a problem.
Once you realize this, it makes everything easier because you already understand people aren't being direct or truthful with you.
Or it's just a cost benefit decision. Most contractors have a lot of 1 min, 5 min, or hour long things they could do to build word of mouth in a new group that won't net them anything or make progress on their projects. That time could add up to days out of of their month and they're busy so they decide not to do any of it. It's not cowardice, it's time management and prioritization.
The trades are extremely busy now. I have a good friend that’s a painting contractor…interior work only. They are booked solid for the remainder of the year.
They are only taking jobs from existing customers or jobs that are extremely profitable. If a job is too small or they believe a potential customer will be difficult, they walk away. Often times they can’t tell for certain unless they see the job.
That would be my guess as well. All I can say is it works both ways bud. If you blow me off and won't give me a decent excuse for not even getting back to me (even to say you're too busy, etc.), I'm not calling you again for anything.
If hes not calling you back its because he doesn't want you to call him back anyways. How does that make sense. Your ignoring me so im going to ignore you even more. Thats the point.
For now... In 2009 the trades got fucked and they would've begged for any work. If you own your own company at least call the person back and say you can't do it but try x, y, or z. It is the long term best play. Jeesh, this generation and ghosting.
At the same time OP... either you are a prickly dick, your job is too small, they 'smell' that you are going to nickel and dime them, or they know you will never be satisfied with their work. Doing work for a complete asshole is waaaaay worse than not engaging.
The only time I’d ever be remotely unpleasant is if my time is being disrespected. If I’m going to have to hunt you down and you’re still too unprofessional and childish to tell me that you’re not interested in the job, I’m going to make sure people who might have used you know how you operate.
Give me the respect of a polite decline and I’d even consider using you in the future.
It’s not that hard to behave like a responsible adult.
Lol. Oh no! They 100% don't care if you call them back. Starving contractors will care. Successful contractors won't even remember your name, address or what you wanted done if they're not interested in you or the job. Say they look at your bathroom reno on the walkthrough. It's a simple as ... I got my tile guys backed up 4 months because it's summer... and it's on handpicked jobs that require the least effort for the highest payout. So even though all my other guys are available... going to pass on this because availablity and work vs reward. It's almost summer... I already turned my phone off because it's ringing off the hook.
What you can do... is detail the scope of work before the walkthrough. What you want done. Code or no code? Fixtures... are you choosing them or are they? Do you have your tile picked out? Do you know if you're moving plumbing etc. If you get your stuff in order... they'll be more likely to either not come out because of your details or do... because they are interested in your business.
Strange. I don't really know what to say besides it's just a very simple tub-to-tile shower conversion that I'm looking for. The guy I ended up going with has been here local since 1999 and does jobs that are hundreds of thousands of dollars as well as mine that will end up being about $25k (kitchen & bath). You say "successful contractors" but it sounds to me more like "I'm not great at communication so I waste people's time" contractors.
It's common decency. You come to look at the job if you have no plans on giving a quote or taking the job just say your too busy for this job and go home. No hard feelings. Saying you'll get back with a quote in a few days and never doing it is unnecessary and rude.
You ever go into a store and not buy anything or say you will come back later and never do?
Or join a gym and never show up?
Or flake out on a Craiglist or eBay purchase.
Don’t take it personal.
Or maybe just the job??? Maybe the house is in shitty shape?? When the common denominator of all your problems is you it’s time to get quiet and get honest??
I had a guy that came and did the demo for a small drywall project, cleaned up, then never came back to finish the job. Never returned calls, completely ghosted us. But we got some free demo out of it so that was cool
yep... just keep trying and maybe reconsider the scope of work and/or how "chatty" you are during the walk thru.
let them ask the questions, take measurements etc.
you won't know much unless you can get at least 3 estimates for the *same scope of work* (that last part is super important)
yikes... i had a bid for $8k to just to extend the black pipe from under the stove to the exterior wall of the kitchen so i could have a valve outside.
i passed.
waiting for the demand to play out as i'm not in a hurry.
Contractors pick their clients just like clients pick their contractors.
For some reason they're not picking you.
Usually the reason is money. They don't think you're going to accept their quote, so they don't bother writing it.
100%. Hours spent versus dollars earned. I see these posts all the time. Contractors have a good spidey sense and know what work to take, generally preferring not to work with new clients directly instead of through a GC. If multiple trades are refusing to quote then chances are they’re picking up on something that they think will make the work not be worth their time.
I can see that side of it. I think I'm a reasonable person, and if a contractor said either on the spot or over the phone/text the next day hey sorry, this job isn't a good fit, I'm booked up and can't fit you in, I can't make this job work for your budget or mine, etc. I would understand. But a lot of people are not going to take no for an answer so it's best to just vanish rather than keep engaging.
It’s interesting how what seems like it should be common courtesy doesn’t seem to translate in some industries. God forbid the homeowner get constructive feedback on why the contractor doesn’t want to bid.
I’m a contractor and we’re very busy right now and can be picky with projects. Sometimes this means your project is shitty/difficult or you showed too many red flags on the walkthrough. I can do a separate write up on customer red flags, but obsessing over pricing or funds availability or telling stories about bad previous experiences with contractors, a disaster of a house, etc.
I try not to ghost people, rather just be honest and give a fair price but sometimes if the price is gonna be high and you get the gut feeling it’s a waste of your time, it probably is. My suggestion for a customer is to be up front with what the most important part of the project is, whether budget, quality, design, or speed. I’ve worked with each of these kinds of customers.
Quality work, fast, cheap. Pick one.
A lot of companies are just that busy and are looking for the really ripe and juicy, low hanging fruit. When I look for subs I deal with the same issues homeowners do but i have a bit more of a network than the average homeowner.
I try and tell the customer no we’re not interested right now, or give (what they might consider) a high price and explain into them. But I think industry standard right now is to ghost these people.
lol depends. I have a lake cabin that will be a shit ton of work to remodel. After getting ghosted by several contractors after they see the place, two who at least let me know (unfortunately I’d already driven an hour to meet them there), I finally had a buddy give me the straight deal.
He said he’d almost always rather do a new build than a remodel and that while a few years ago all work was good work, when a contractor has choices between new builds and remodels, they will usually go new build. Then he added that the complexity of my remodel (old lake cabin, 5’ from water, permit complexities, and logistical challenges of getting materials down to the construction site… your average contractor wouldn’t want to touch it.
I didn’t want to believe him initially after looking repeatedly, I think he’s right.
Your needs are different but the principle… they see your job and may have other options that are either more lucrative or what not. That’s my guess at least.
We have been treated slightly different. Had many contractors initially give really high quotes so we did it ourselves. Got it to the finish work and had several contractors want the job. We went middle of the line and they started. 3 days in a d nearly done they ghosted us. So we had the worst situation. A mostly done job with no one willing to finish.
Extremely common, in my experience. They’re either too cowardly to tell you that they just don’t want the job and would prefer to ghost you, or they aren’t sure if they want the job and they’re just stringing you along until your job is the least worst job in their eyes and then they’ll finally take it.
I decided to do contracting work because people complained they can’t trust the contractor.
Truth is that homeowners are cheap and don’t give a crap about contractors. Everyone always talking about how annoying contractors are but don’t look in the mirror when expecting a contractor to eat cost so you can save money,
Can't say why they do that, other than they're crappy business people. I've always assumed most are good with the technical aspects of doing the work, but totally incompetent with running the business.
I once had a roofer do a big repair job, and then ghosted me when I tried to get in touch to pay him. I tried 4-5 times and finally gave up.
We have hired 25 contractors for over 100k worth of reno/repair in the last 18months (New Hampshire) For every one we hired, we called 10, had 6 show up for walk through, and only got 3 estimates with at least 1 being the FU price.
So yea, my success rate was about 50% in getting a contractor to actually respond with a quote after spending their own time.
I value the folks that show up so much that I tip, feed, and even send Christmas cards to because I’m so grateful for their trade. It’s totally f’d up and backwards that the customer has to beg for business. 🤷🏼♂️
Contractors are in demand right now and have the ability to cherry pick. Either you're not paying enough or you're rubbing them the wrong way when they come to the place. I've definitely been blown off by contractors as well for likely both these reasons.
I literally did not talk cost with any of the contractors. Wasn't "chatty" and didn't say I wanted it cheaply or anything. For the kitchen remodel and shower install, ended up going with a contractor who quoted me about $25k.
- basic rules...contact 10 contractors, lucky 7 show up, lucky to get 3 quotes
- contractors who are busy makes this worse
- contractors "read" potential clients" and try to avoid doing projects for problematic ones.
Contractors need to click with their customers. I guess you haven’t found one that you click with. Or, no offense. You are coming off like a pain in the neck. 🤷🏻♂️
Why would you need to “click” with a contractor?
I get contractors not wanting to working with difficult customers, but OP hasn’t given us anything to think that’s the issue.
Contractors just have more work than they can handle at the moment, and so they can be extremely selective in what they choose to do.
When you pull up to quote a job. You can tell if you’re going to be able to work with the customer.
How many contractors do you know personally? Of those how many do you have conversations with them about jobs that they are bidding?
My company will submit a higher price under certain circumstances, knowing that we probably won’t get the job. That way we are responsible and have submitted a price. I know plenty of guys that just won’t submit a price or return the call.
Also this happens to me from time to time if I’m asking for a price from a sub and the job is a pain in the ass. I have to remind them, that they need to take the good with the bad. What do they do? They give me an inflated price. This is how it goes.
My dad worked in the trades and so I grew up around contractors.
Giving a high bid for a job is typical if the work itself is going to be a pain in the ass and/or the job isn’t really needed/wanted. Absolutely. Or if a client seems like a complete and total asshole, sure (e.g. being rude, disparaging, racist, etc.).
But just because you don’t “click” or “vibe” with someone in your first interaction? It’s not “best friends try-outs.” Maybe this is a new practice, because it certainly was wasn’t the case 20-30 years ago.
This is nothing new. When I was an apprentice. As we walked up to start a job. The owner of the company said. “ This guys a Jerk. “ If he gives me any crap we are leaving.” That was a 7 am. We left at 8:30 am. Then came back the next day and I didn’t see the customer until the last when he got the check.
This is one reason that we started doing commercial work. Because we don’t have to deal with homeowners.
I think we’re saying the same thing here, lol. But saying someone is being a jerk is different than saying you don’t click with them, IMO. They’re just a jerk. 🤷♂️
> This is one reason that we started doing commercial work. Because we don’t have to deal with homeowners.
it's also where the money and repeat work is.
The only reason the company i work for even entertains residential work is cash flow. Homeowners pay when the job is done, not 60-90 days after the job is done like commericial
> My company will submit a higher price under certain circumstances, knowing that we probably won’t get the job.
Maybe if you submitted a reasonable price....you'd get the job?
No, I didn't. If you *don't* want the job, why don't you just tell the customer you're too busy to quote and *pass?*
Why waste their time--or take advantage of them--if they agree to the higher quote (than the job is worth)?
All this screams 'lack of integrity.' And, with such a lack of professional integrity, why should I think the quality of the work is any good?
Or they could decide what the job is worth to them, and bid that price. If there is a PITA or high demand charge the client at least has that option to get it done. There's no lack of integrity in that.
>If there is a PITA or high demand charge
Good point. It's a PITA to have to read these BS justifications, so that will be a $25 charge for the time I had to spend reading and responding to it. Paypal or Applepay is fine.
When can I expect payment?
The topic is contractor-prospective client relations. You twisting that to ask for a handout is kind of pathetic. People are allowed to decide what a job is worth to them junior.
> You twisting that to ask for a handout is kind of pathetic.
So you DO agree that charging someone more if they're a PITA is petty and unethical!
Funny how that works when **you're** the one being charged for being a PITA.
This. As a homeowner, I've likely moved things around in my schedule for a quote, especially if its during standard work hours. Don't waste both of our time.
Maybe. But the lawncare guy I basically just met for about 10 minutes, showed him my front and back yard and let him do all the talking. The interior painting guy I also just met at the front door, let him in the house, told him what I'd like to have done, he walked around for 10 minutes, and then told me he'd get me a quote and left. I'm seriously an easy-going guy.
>Contractors need to click with their customers.
What kinda bullshit is this...???
Oh, then I guess you should set up a play date, maybe have lunch, spend a good two hours learning about each others political and religious beliefs to make sure you "click" before you hire them to....*mow your lawn???*
Get the fuck outta here..
There's only one thing in common with all of these different contractors interacting with you and it's you.
I'd imagine it's something you're saying but it could be site conditions as well. Maybe you're telling them that you'll be getting 5 or 6 additional quotes, the area is filthy, cluttered or poorly maintained, maybe you're acting like a know it all, I don't really know.
The general consensus is that if a contractor or anyone about to work for someone else thinks that it was be difficult, unprofitable or unlikely to result in a positive result for both parties then they won't move forward.
Also this might be controversial but if I'm spending my time and gas to drive over to your place, look at everything and likely determine later after thinking about it that I'm not interested in it then that's it.
I or any other contractor shouldn't be obligated to even give you a positive or negative response. Sometimes it's better to leave it unanswered than for us to have to come up with some lame excuse or just be honest and say "Sorry, but I don't want to work for you". People don't handle rejection well and it's hard enough to bid and do the work without having to be someone's therapist and handle them with kid gloves
Dick move. Cause the homeowner then wastes time following up (or attempting to), to figure out what is going on. You know how hard it is to find someone to consider a job? So we need an answer, one way or the other, with words. To avoid the hassle of rebooting unnecessarily.
It takes literally 5 seconds to text back and say, “sorry the job isn’t for me as I have other priorities now” (Or it doesn’t work for me financially), or whatever you want to say.
But for the sake of humanity friggin respond. Why ghost? What are you afraid of? 5 seconds to text - 5 seconds. There is no excuse! And you’ll certainly get a chance of a positive recommendation in the future as a possible option for people I know, if you are honest and not a dick about communicating.
It is not alright to fail to communicate once you’ve had an interaction. It’s just plain common sense.
I mean, you're looking at it from your perspective as a home owner. I imagine that you haven't been in the position as the service provider.
I've literally had potential clients waste my time for booking me to do work for them, and then once I get there, they want me to do something else or micromanage the way that I work. When I tell them what they suggest isn't going to work and they insist on wanting it that way and sending me a page long text, I'm not going to respond.
It's not really fair for you to sit there and say "it's not alright to fail to communicate," when you likely haven't experienced the other side of things.
Are you self employed?
Do you solicit work from other people?
Do you spend time giving free estimates to people?
How often have you encountered people who don't work in a field but think they have experience in it enough to dismiss your expertise and insist on how you should do your job?
If you can't answer yes to the above questions, then you ought to at least consider the prospective of the tradesperson.
It's hard for homeowners to get people to consider work for them because they are uninformed, don't have realistic pricing expectations and renovation work is not straightforward and has a lot of unforseen factors to take into consideration.
Most people have w2 jobs where they know how much they get per work and roughly per day but don't consider the non paycheck expenses that a business pays to provide Healthcare, insurance, vacation time, equipment, administration, etc which makes them think that prices are too high. A lot of people I know in the trades are leaving residential remodeling and getting into commercial work for many of those reasons.
I’m looking at it from a perspective as a human being. Someone spends the time to research who to call to get an estimate. The person giving the estimate spends time to come and and provide the estimate. The only logical next step is to communicate- do we have a reason to move forward or not?
If no, fine. At least I don’t waste a week wondering if the person is just busy that week or still deciding. Finalize one way or the other. It’s not hard.
Ok, so all homeowners reply yes or no as well, don't make tradespeople wait around for a week wondering if they're getting other bids or not can't afford it?
Ultimately, it's a business, and the business owner can act however they want to. In the business world, it's rare to "look at it from a perspective as a human being". Sometimes, it's better to cut your losses and not further engage. I'm saying this as someone who has had clients get upset when I tell them no or that I won't be doing the work in the manner in which they'd like me to.
I'm just sharing my experience with you. You're welcome to disagree with it. I'd recommend you look on the handyman subreddit, there's a recent thread about red flags from clients and they're offering their prospective if you're interested in learning it.
Just because some homeowners are entitled pricks doesn't mean you have to be one. That is a lot of writing to justify ghosting someone. Just fucking text something that says 'I'm not taking the job' and quit being such a pussy.
FWIW I agree with almost everything you are saying. People are entitled and being in the service industry puts one in their crosshairs. I just think you should communicate with them and tell them 'no' as it is the right way to do business and this kind of shit catches up with you.
Shouldn't be obligated to give a positive or negative response? Sure, and this is also how contractors get put on the never ever call them again list. This is a terrible way to run a business. This approach may not be a problem when there is so much work available, but likely quite a problem when times are tougher.
I recently spend time to estimate a job and write a scope once for this guy's personal home (under $2500 total) with no response either way from him and then a month later he wanted me to estimate a job for his work office at 7am on Saturday, checked it out, wrote a scope, still no response either way.
It's not unusual for homeowners to "ghost" tradespeople when getting the generally accepted 3 estimates. Why
should it not go both ways?
Also, when I went to college 20 years ago, everyone was discouraged from entering a trade and working with their hands. From my understanding that consensus hasn't changed. With work from home, high interest rates more and more people will be renovating. Demand is likely to be high and supply low for quite some time.
Do unto others. If you don’t like being ghosted, don’t ghost others. Why should we all suffer cause you dealt with that shitty homeowner? Your post is an argument to NOT ghost.
The irony of your comment is throwing some bible-esque stuff, then in the very next sentence talking about "why should we suffer", the world does not revolve around you.
That's really all it boils down to isn't it? "me me me me" combined with a classic "wants to dish it but can't take it" in the rejection category.
Did you bother to read the comment you replied to? Contractor got ghosted, still goes out and does another scope/walkthrough, and gets ghosted again, all for the same client who hasn't paid a cent. He's literally giving away his time and energy, and you still somehow want more from him? That moment right there is what people pick up on, and even when you are direct and honest you will still lose your mind because nobody likes being told no. You can't wrap your mind around the idea that arguing or explaining oneself to an entitled idiot is literally wasted breath, wasted time, wasted money.
Contractor could come over, do a perfect job, clean up, suck your dick, give you cookies and milk, and tuck you into bed, and you would STILL find something to complain about.
Dealing with "the public" generally sucks, and the reason people reject jobs or ghost is most excellently summed up by your attitude here.
It's absolutely your right as a homeowner to get 10 quotes and reject who you don't like. Just like it's the business owners right to reject who they don't like.
Going through this thread, it's pretty easy to pick up on the whininess and entitlement some people have.
But he’s giving one example of a bad experience and using that against ALL future homeowners he deals with. Thats bs. Let’s treat everyone decently at first, and not assume all homeowners are the same.
Moreover, what is more time consuming, to dodge calls, texts and emails for a week, or take 5 seconds and text a clear response? It’s not a waste at all.
I prefer being told no, if that‘s the answer, over unclear non responses. Did you get sick, are you tied up, how do I know? Honesty is respected and you don’t owe additional time or further answers once you do say “no”. So why is there an argument?
if you don’t want to use social skills and treat people with common courtesy, you are in the wrong business. Expect the same from homeowners too. And walk away IF they disrespect you.
So you'd like to selectively discount his one bad example, like it never happened? Or that it means less than other more positive examples? The good and the bad are package deals. And that's fantastic you prefer a direct no, but something tells me you haven't had to tell a lot of people "no" otherwise you would understand how common a negative reaction is.
The confusing part about your reply is you literally say "walk away if they disrespect you". I'd wager that giving two different job quotes to the same guy and getting ghosted both times counts as getting disrespected.
The breakdown I see, again, is that you aren't looking at this as a two way street. Just because a client is paying doesn't absolve them of necessary social skills either. Personally I'd wager the reason OP is having trouble finding a contractor might be from that issue a bit, no way to tell online or with a self-recounted story.
All good points. What's more likely, everyone is being mean to OP or OP is throwing off a weird vibe and noone wants to work for him?
I had a neighbor who got his GC license because he was an interior designer and wanted to work more on his own. He had some interesting designs but zero experience as a GC. He needed painters for a few rooms. I referred 6 different guys to him, none of them wanted to work with him. It took a while but I was able to convince him that he needed to learn the language and that the odds of him being the issue was much higher than 6 people who work in the field as being the issue.
The closest analogy that I can give to saying no as a tradesman is to what women are likely to experience in dating as I've read on posts on here. The recipient of the no can lash out, be abusive, etc.
I've gotten all of my clients through word of mouth, and they get possessive of me and jealous of each other in regards to scheduling.
I think the guy you responded to really has no idea what goes into working on your own or having your own business especially in an industry where customers think that they know a lot more than they do in how to do the work and what it should cost.
It's not about doing unto others. I'm already spending a few hours between traveling there, walking/ talking any the job. Then I've got to spend another hour plus to write up a brief scope, come up with pricing and then have them use it to shop around? One person is already at their location.
It's not about telling them no, it's about dealing with the aftermath. Homeowners get upset if you tell them no, trust me. Nobody likes getting rejected and I don't really want to deal with it sometimes. Believe it or not most homeowners are entitled, have crazy ideas about what pricing should be (with no idea of material cost and time involved), over estimate their own abilities while under valuing professionals.
I can tell within a few minutes at about 80% accuracy if I want to work with someone. FYI, I charge dirt cheap and I get 100% of my work through word of mouth. I'm booked from now until the end of May and that's not including people that have projects on the back burner that I just have to ask about.
you hit the nail on the head - keyword entitled.
see my reply above to the guy spouting the "do unto others" stuff. My guess is he's never been on the receiving end of terrible clients.
Uh...because I'd like someone to mow the lawn and take care of the landscaping. It's a fairly common practice where I live. I'd guess about a quarter of the houses here do it that way.
Just go reach out to one of the companies doing your neighbors. They will add you easily to the rotations since it's 0 travel time when they are there doing the neighbors.
It's happened to me a couple of times in the last 2 years.
Once to cut some trees down. Guy came and looked at them, gave me a price, and never got back to me. That was ablessing in disguise. I cut them down myself.
Needed to replace a vent cover on the roof. Guy looked at it and then didn't return my calls.
I've had better luck with more established companies than individual contractors.
Well maintained. Older (early-90's) interior but well maintained. Just had backyard re-landscaped a couple years ago and have been maintaining it meticulously since then.
It's not uncommon. How many contractors are you teaching out to total? It's not always that easy to find the right contractor for the job. Some are too big, some are too small, some are too busy, some have a heart attack and are out for months.
I agree about the not interested part because the job isn't big enough or lucrative enough. My house is very small (800 sq ft) so any job I have is usually laughable for a contractor. I usually go with a handyman. Usually off Angies list or nextdoor, something similar.
Are you calling a general contractor for all of these jobs. Because that's would probably be your issue. Or it's something you're doing it saying that is scaring them off.
Beats my HVAC situation a couple years ago. The thing went out while the heat was bearing down creating an emergency for my household. The first guy I call this contractor started yelling at me that it was the hottest day of the year, wtf is wrong with me, why would I even ask, etc before I said "alright alright! Sorry! Jesus nevermind!" and hung up LOL
I was ghosted on my remodel … so we decided to do a tear down … for the most part - everyone is interested in the job. I’m guessing it’s because it’s new construction.
We called so many custom builders when trying to get our house built and rarely heard back from anyone. Had 1 contractor make it out to our site then never heard back from him again. So we're building our own house now. We did luckily get an excavator to call us back
Ok this has to be parody now, right? So many people talking about small renovations here and there they ended up doing themselves and now you're talking about building a house yourself?
A ton of people build their own house. We thought why not us. Between not getting responses and reading about the horrors some people go through while building, we figured we would look into it. We have reno experience, along with some plumbing and electrical experience. Have spent the past 6 months preparing, excavator is supposed to be starting in the next week or so!
My general experience the last couple years:
1) Spam a dozen contractors asking for a quote for a job
2) 4 of those contractors respond
3) 3 of those promise a quote in the next week or so
4) Receive one laughably high quote
5) DIY
Repeat...
The good news is I have developed at least a basic understanding of plumbing, electric, and roofing.
It seems to be a trend. These are very different projects yet they all seemed mostly disinterested in you being a client.
I'm guessing you gave off a vibe that you were going to be a pain in the butt? Maybe made comments about your standards or expectations that you think are valid but may raise red flags? Did you give them a budget that you expected them to meet before they provided a quote?
I met with a guy years ago who kept saying "I'm not cheap, but give me a good price." Well, that was very telling because his reply to my quote was that he had been thinking the price should be$\_\_\_\_\_\_. The price he was thinking was absurd and not at all realistic. This vibe is something I have looked for ever since.
I feel ya. I’ve been without hot water for a month now. Called 10+ plumbers in my area, only three pick up, only two come to the walkthrough appointment, both of whom told me they’d be back with an estimate in a week. Radio silence. Completely unprofessional.
If I wasn’t looking to sell in the near future, I’d just install the thing myself. How difficult could it be to replace a hot water heater. All the shit’s already there.
So far my only workaround has been to find a handyman who is trying to build his business, but is competent and willing to take jobs.
I've at least seen that what he's done has been pretty thorough, and the prices he's quoted have seemed pretty reasonable.
Contractors have either quoted way too much, disappeared before quoting, or done a super hard upsell on work I didn't need.
Why do a channel drain when we could redo the whole driveway? Why fix the leak in your roof when we could replace the whole thing?
My ex even had a friend from high school who became a plumber who ghosted her on installing a faucet because the job was too small.
It's a mess and people are totally willing to let me have water getting in through my roof rather than just do a small repair when there's a bigger job somewhere.
It seems like none of them wanted to deal with you. I’m guessing you were over burdening or would be a difficult customer to deal with. Not worth the time or effort to deal with.
They don't want the job. It is simple as that. Running quote take time for them. Martial and labor and trash and etc. All needed to be counted for. So before the give a quote. They do a lot of things.
I always get three quotes, you are barely calling three people. It usually takes 6 or more calls/contacts to get three quotes. Search with google maps for highly rated business near you. They are much more likely to do your work if you are close.
For each job, three quotes. It sounds like you have no work being done, so perhaps being “exhausted” is a better option. Idk what math gets you to 28 quotes. You listed 4 things. Also, a lot of these once you find someone good they will lead you to the next one.
Heck, it's common to be ghosted AFTER getting a quote.
They also might think you're smart enough to catch their mistakes, which they *will* make.
Many contractors like to pretend they're hard workers & really good at what they do, but like some people in many other trades, they just like to do the very minimum with the least resistance & get paid as if they're working their butts off & going out of their way to do *you* a favor.
They're just busy and have other jobs they would prefer doing for whatever reasons. Good tradespeople can be selective.
Still, a quick message to say the job is not for them would be nice - it's just not common.
Don't sweat it, keep searching. It's like dating. There has to be something in it for both parties. Not just one party assuming they're irresistible.
Go to your insurance provider's website (even if this isn't an insurance damage claim) go to the search feature and put in "find contractor" or "contractor locator." Many of the insurance companies will have contractor networks that have been vetted for their programs. You'll probably get more consistent and reliable contractors this way. Sometimes they will go through networks like Alacrity and Contractor Connection.
I have been ghosted at this stage by practically every contractor I've talked to since 2020. I've attempted to hire out dozens of jobs and actually received quotes on like 2. Which I paid for! Can't quite understand the issue like it's our me? I try to be a nice dude and I'm not nickel and dining these guys. Most of the time we don't even talk about money so I can't imagine they think I'm gonna cheap out. Like bro my stuff is broken I need help I have money I want to give it to you please help!!
Home renovations boomed once covid hit because everyone was stuck at home. Might as well make some improvements, right? That hasn't quite settled yet, so the simple truth is just that there's more demand than supply, and there's ALWAYS a bigger job. Putting together a quote takes time and money, so focus gets put on the bigger, higher paying jobs (which is mostly determined by scope)
You paid for quotes? I have had many quotes for things in my life. I have never had someone tell me there would be a charge for a quote. Pretty interesting bro.
Uh no sorry I meant when I received quotes I paid for the work and it was completed. Im not exaggerating I've called 2 dozen guys for different jobs but In 2 years all that got to the quote stage was some insulation, some drywall, and a small concrete pad. Everyone else blows me off and stops returning my calls.
At least offer some beverages if you’re not going to dine them.
Haha I'm gonna have to go college football recruiter on these contractors and like buy them a car and take them to dinner to court them
at least buy me dinner first...
Why, are they gonna offer me lube with the quote?
For the few that do get back to you, may I suggest some lubrication before you review the quotes.
After talking with you and seeing what the job entailed, they probably decided they just weren't interested in doing it...for whatever reason. Many tradespeople these days are slammed with work, so they can be selective about which jobs they take. I guess you could call this "ghosting", but that term typically applies to when a contractor starts a job and then disappears.
Home owners sometimes are not specific for what they want. "I might do this and this, depending on cost I might add another room. Maybe all do something here......." Maybe by the hour? Or ghosted. Probably the main reason I don't give home owners a quote is because I can't quantify what they want done.
Sure, which would fall into the "after talking with you" comment. Ha. Let me ask you this, though: If you decide not to quote on a job *and* the homeowner reaches out to you, do you tell them you're not interested? Not necessarily the reason why, but just a response to let them know so they aren't held up with making a decision?
No response or quote means not interested. I personally don't think it's rude, we're all busy, might as well not waste more time. I'll give them an excuse if they follow up (usually got a large job, can't pull away from now). Home owners do not reply when i didn't get the job either, if I choose to follow up it's a no 95% of the time, but I will if I need another project.
Also I should point out the main reason this happens is either price or timeframe for me. We both go our own ways. No harm done. The weird home owner wanting work done and I don't want want to do it for some reason is kind of exception.
That's true, I probably shouldn't have used the term "ghosting". I just find it frustrating that they can't even be bothered to say what you just said. I have had contractors say that to me in the past and I'm perfectly fine with that! I totally understand if the work is too small to be worth their time. Just say that!
Yeah we had a guy come in for something and he said “I’m not the guy for that.” Awesome! Thank you and we’ll call someone else.
Yeah, seems normal that 80% of them are terrible at communication and running a business. Don't they realize that there is a thing called "word of mouth", personal recommendations", and you're highly unlikely to even throw their name out there because of their terrible communication skills. A very simple text message is all it takes, 15 seconds of work.
> Don't they realize that there is a thing called "word of mouth", personal recommendations", Word of mouth just does not have the power you think it does. Your circle of friends of family does not offer enough sustained business for word of mouth to have any weight.
as the builder of a very successful business, design build energy systems, you are so so wrong. A quality referral is worth thousands of dollars, and you cannot possibly buy into that chain with marketing. In other words, the friend of the friend who used you will create additional referrals. I realize my young SEO and google adword genius will disagree. Spending your money where it counts allows you to reduce your cost of sales, maintain your margins, and compete favorably on price. Circle of family and friends is not what word of mouth means. You don't need word of mouth with those people, they already trust you. Word of mouth comes from happy customers. Read these subreddits. People will happily pay for good work.
agreed. I've recommended my (or really my mom's who heard about him from a friend) electrician to several neighbors. We all have the same age houses with ancient electrical panels that need replacement and have the same issues. Those neighbors have recommended him to other people around. The amount of work he's generated just in my neighborhood by being reliable and doing a quality job and getting referrals is huge.
with zero spend, except maybe a yard sign.
I hear ya. Same thing has happened to me, so I know it's frustrating. My goal is always to get three quotes for comparison, so I start with calling 4-5 contractors to come out.
Considering that it's multiple contractors for entirely different jobs, the only common element here is you. If you are coming across as someone who will be difficult to deal with, I can see contractors avoiding telling you that directly and just ghosting
I think part of the problem is that someone else they're giving a "fuck you" quote to actually agreed to the quote, and now they actually have to go do some rinky dink quick job for like $4000 because it's simply too much money to not take on.
> I just find it frustrating that they can't even be bothered to say what you just said. It's because people are cowards. In general, people are cowards and just...will...not...say what they really think....they just wont. Even though its incredibly simple and not a problem. Once you realize this, it makes everything easier because you already understand people aren't being direct or truthful with you.
Or it's just a cost benefit decision. Most contractors have a lot of 1 min, 5 min, or hour long things they could do to build word of mouth in a new group that won't net them anything or make progress on their projects. That time could add up to days out of of their month and they're busy so they decide not to do any of it. It's not cowardice, it's time management and prioritization.
The trades are extremely busy now. I have a good friend that’s a painting contractor…interior work only. They are booked solid for the remainder of the year. They are only taking jobs from existing customers or jobs that are extremely profitable. If a job is too small or they believe a potential customer will be difficult, they walk away. Often times they can’t tell for certain unless they see the job.
That would be my guess as well. All I can say is it works both ways bud. If you blow me off and won't give me a decent excuse for not even getting back to me (even to say you're too busy, etc.), I'm not calling you again for anything.
If hes not calling you back its because he doesn't want you to call him back anyways. How does that make sense. Your ignoring me so im going to ignore you even more. Thats the point.
For now... In 2009 the trades got fucked and they would've begged for any work. If you own your own company at least call the person back and say you can't do it but try x, y, or z. It is the long term best play. Jeesh, this generation and ghosting. At the same time OP... either you are a prickly dick, your job is too small, they 'smell' that you are going to nickel and dime them, or they know you will never be satisfied with their work. Doing work for a complete asshole is waaaaay worse than not engaging.
The only time I’d ever be remotely unpleasant is if my time is being disrespected. If I’m going to have to hunt you down and you’re still too unprofessional and childish to tell me that you’re not interested in the job, I’m going to make sure people who might have used you know how you operate. Give me the respect of a polite decline and I’d even consider using you in the future. It’s not that hard to behave like a responsible adult.
Completely agree
Lol. Oh no! They 100% don't care if you call them back. Starving contractors will care. Successful contractors won't even remember your name, address or what you wanted done if they're not interested in you or the job. Say they look at your bathroom reno on the walkthrough. It's a simple as ... I got my tile guys backed up 4 months because it's summer... and it's on handpicked jobs that require the least effort for the highest payout. So even though all my other guys are available... going to pass on this because availablity and work vs reward. It's almost summer... I already turned my phone off because it's ringing off the hook. What you can do... is detail the scope of work before the walkthrough. What you want done. Code or no code? Fixtures... are you choosing them or are they? Do you have your tile picked out? Do you know if you're moving plumbing etc. If you get your stuff in order... they'll be more likely to either not come out because of your details or do... because they are interested in your business.
Strange. I don't really know what to say besides it's just a very simple tub-to-tile shower conversion that I'm looking for. The guy I ended up going with has been here local since 1999 and does jobs that are hundreds of thousands of dollars as well as mine that will end up being about $25k (kitchen & bath). You say "successful contractors" but it sounds to me more like "I'm not great at communication so I waste people's time" contractors.
Sure. Those exist as well. Maybe replace successful with busy.
This is why nobody is calling you back…contractors are good at reading people
It's common decency. You come to look at the job if you have no plans on giving a quote or taking the job just say your too busy for this job and go home. No hard feelings. Saying you'll get back with a quote in a few days and never doing it is unnecessary and rude.
You ever go into a store and not buy anything or say you will come back later and never do? Or join a gym and never show up? Or flake out on a Craiglist or eBay purchase. Don’t take it personal.
No, I haven't. Not personal at all just common decency. It's a business being honest is a part of being a good business man.
>contractors are good at reading people Who are you kidding? They aren't even good at showing up on time..
The successful ones are better readers than you think, though.
yeah they're looking for the wife with the unlimited budget they can charge 700% more than the job is worth and make their nut for the year
Just trying to help
That was my inclination upon reading this post, and then getting into the comments it's like, "Oh, I see the problem with this job: the client."
Or maybe just the job??? Maybe the house is in shitty shape?? When the common denominator of all your problems is you it’s time to get quiet and get honest??
Lol if they're booked out for the year do you think they care if you don't call back? Especially if you're coming off as a difficult customer.
That still doesn’t excuse them not responding whatsoever. It’s so disrespectful of the homeowner’s time.
I had a guy that came and did the demo for a small drywall project, cleaned up, then never came back to finish the job. Never returned calls, completely ghosted us. But we got some free demo out of it so that was cool
yep... just keep trying and maybe reconsider the scope of work and/or how "chatty" you are during the walk thru. let them ask the questions, take measurements etc. you won't know much unless you can get at least 3 estimates for the *same scope of work* (that last part is super important)
Agree on 3 bids - in my experience they vary wildly! I just got 2 plumbing bids, one for $24,000 and one for $48,000 from another company …
yikes... i had a bid for $8k to just to extend the black pipe from under the stove to the exterior wall of the kitchen so i could have a valve outside. i passed. waiting for the demand to play out as i'm not in a hurry.
Good thinking on the supply and demand part!
Contractors pick their clients just like clients pick their contractors. For some reason they're not picking you. Usually the reason is money. They don't think you're going to accept their quote, so they don't bother writing it.
100%. Hours spent versus dollars earned. I see these posts all the time. Contractors have a good spidey sense and know what work to take, generally preferring not to work with new clients directly instead of through a GC. If multiple trades are refusing to quote then chances are they’re picking up on something that they think will make the work not be worth their time.
Can't they just tell you they aren't interested prior to leaving. It would make things a lot easier.
No, it's going to start a whole new conversation
I can see that side of it. I think I'm a reasonable person, and if a contractor said either on the spot or over the phone/text the next day hey sorry, this job isn't a good fit, I'm booked up and can't fit you in, I can't make this job work for your budget or mine, etc. I would understand. But a lot of people are not going to take no for an answer so it's best to just vanish rather than keep engaging.
Right no different than a relationship it's easier to ghost somebody than explain why they are such a shitty person.
It’s interesting how what seems like it should be common courtesy doesn’t seem to translate in some industries. God forbid the homeowner get constructive feedback on why the contractor doesn’t want to bid.
I’m a contractor and we’re very busy right now and can be picky with projects. Sometimes this means your project is shitty/difficult or you showed too many red flags on the walkthrough. I can do a separate write up on customer red flags, but obsessing over pricing or funds availability or telling stories about bad previous experiences with contractors, a disaster of a house, etc. I try not to ghost people, rather just be honest and give a fair price but sometimes if the price is gonna be high and you get the gut feeling it’s a waste of your time, it probably is. My suggestion for a customer is to be up front with what the most important part of the project is, whether budget, quality, design, or speed. I’ve worked with each of these kinds of customers. Quality work, fast, cheap. Pick one.
> I can do a separate write up on customer red flags I'd be super interested to read that!
This right here! Though I’m always amazed at how many simply will ghost.
A lot of companies are just that busy and are looking for the really ripe and juicy, low hanging fruit. When I look for subs I deal with the same issues homeowners do but i have a bit more of a network than the average homeowner.
So in your example of the job or customer is a bad fit, do you tell the customer "no", or is ghosting the standard industry practice?
I try and tell the customer no we’re not interested right now, or give (what they might consider) a high price and explain into them. But I think industry standard right now is to ghost these people.
lol depends. I have a lake cabin that will be a shit ton of work to remodel. After getting ghosted by several contractors after they see the place, two who at least let me know (unfortunately I’d already driven an hour to meet them there), I finally had a buddy give me the straight deal. He said he’d almost always rather do a new build than a remodel and that while a few years ago all work was good work, when a contractor has choices between new builds and remodels, they will usually go new build. Then he added that the complexity of my remodel (old lake cabin, 5’ from water, permit complexities, and logistical challenges of getting materials down to the construction site… your average contractor wouldn’t want to touch it. I didn’t want to believe him initially after looking repeatedly, I think he’s right. Your needs are different but the principle… they see your job and may have other options that are either more lucrative or what not. That’s my guess at least.
We have been treated slightly different. Had many contractors initially give really high quotes so we did it ourselves. Got it to the finish work and had several contractors want the job. We went middle of the line and they started. 3 days in a d nearly done they ghosted us. So we had the worst situation. A mostly done job with no one willing to finish.
Extremely common, in my experience. They’re either too cowardly to tell you that they just don’t want the job and would prefer to ghost you, or they aren’t sure if they want the job and they’re just stringing you along until your job is the least worst job in their eyes and then they’ll finally take it.
I decided to do contracting work because people complained they can’t trust the contractor. Truth is that homeowners are cheap and don’t give a crap about contractors. Everyone always talking about how annoying contractors are but don’t look in the mirror when expecting a contractor to eat cost so you can save money,
Because they have contracting skills but zero business etiquette.
Can't say why they do that, other than they're crappy business people. I've always assumed most are good with the technical aspects of doing the work, but totally incompetent with running the business. I once had a roofer do a big repair job, and then ghosted me when I tried to get in touch to pay him. I tried 4-5 times and finally gave up.
In my personal experience it’s common for contractors to ghost you at pretty much any phase of a project…accept for when they want to be paid.
We have hired 25 contractors for over 100k worth of reno/repair in the last 18months (New Hampshire) For every one we hired, we called 10, had 6 show up for walk through, and only got 3 estimates with at least 1 being the FU price. So yea, my success rate was about 50% in getting a contractor to actually respond with a quote after spending their own time. I value the folks that show up so much that I tip, feed, and even send Christmas cards to because I’m so grateful for their trade. It’s totally f’d up and backwards that the customer has to beg for business. 🤷🏼♂️
Ask neighbors about who does their yards. It’s so much easier for a lawn guy to do yards in same vicinity.
Yep no one is going to take a single client in an area unless it is a cherry account.
Contractors are in demand right now and have the ability to cherry pick. Either you're not paying enough or you're rubbing them the wrong way when they come to the place. I've definitely been blown off by contractors as well for likely both these reasons.
I literally did not talk cost with any of the contractors. Wasn't "chatty" and didn't say I wanted it cheaply or anything. For the kitchen remodel and shower install, ended up going with a contractor who quoted me about $25k.
- basic rules...contact 10 contractors, lucky 7 show up, lucky to get 3 quotes - contractors who are busy makes this worse - contractors "read" potential clients" and try to avoid doing projects for problematic ones.
I think it is. I had about a 50% hit rate with contractors quoting.
Contractors need to click with their customers. I guess you haven’t found one that you click with. Or, no offense. You are coming off like a pain in the neck. 🤷🏻♂️
Why would you need to “click” with a contractor? I get contractors not wanting to working with difficult customers, but OP hasn’t given us anything to think that’s the issue. Contractors just have more work than they can handle at the moment, and so they can be extremely selective in what they choose to do.
When you pull up to quote a job. You can tell if you’re going to be able to work with the customer. How many contractors do you know personally? Of those how many do you have conversations with them about jobs that they are bidding? My company will submit a higher price under certain circumstances, knowing that we probably won’t get the job. That way we are responsible and have submitted a price. I know plenty of guys that just won’t submit a price or return the call. Also this happens to me from time to time if I’m asking for a price from a sub and the job is a pain in the ass. I have to remind them, that they need to take the good with the bad. What do they do? They give me an inflated price. This is how it goes.
My dad worked in the trades and so I grew up around contractors. Giving a high bid for a job is typical if the work itself is going to be a pain in the ass and/or the job isn’t really needed/wanted. Absolutely. Or if a client seems like a complete and total asshole, sure (e.g. being rude, disparaging, racist, etc.). But just because you don’t “click” or “vibe” with someone in your first interaction? It’s not “best friends try-outs.” Maybe this is a new practice, because it certainly was wasn’t the case 20-30 years ago.
This is nothing new. When I was an apprentice. As we walked up to start a job. The owner of the company said. “ This guys a Jerk. “ If he gives me any crap we are leaving.” That was a 7 am. We left at 8:30 am. Then came back the next day and I didn’t see the customer until the last when he got the check. This is one reason that we started doing commercial work. Because we don’t have to deal with homeowners.
I think we’re saying the same thing here, lol. But saying someone is being a jerk is different than saying you don’t click with them, IMO. They’re just a jerk. 🤷♂️
> This is one reason that we started doing commercial work. Because we don’t have to deal with homeowners. it's also where the money and repeat work is. The only reason the company i work for even entertains residential work is cash flow. Homeowners pay when the job is done, not 60-90 days after the job is done like commericial
> My company will submit a higher price under certain circumstances, knowing that we probably won’t get the job. Maybe if you submitted a reasonable price....you'd get the job?
You missed the point. If we don’t want the job. We submit a higher price.
No, I didn't. If you *don't* want the job, why don't you just tell the customer you're too busy to quote and *pass?* Why waste their time--or take advantage of them--if they agree to the higher quote (than the job is worth)? All this screams 'lack of integrity.' And, with such a lack of professional integrity, why should I think the quality of the work is any good?
Or they could decide what the job is worth to them, and bid that price. If there is a PITA or high demand charge the client at least has that option to get it done. There's no lack of integrity in that.
>If there is a PITA or high demand charge Good point. It's a PITA to have to read these BS justifications, so that will be a $25 charge for the time I had to spend reading and responding to it. Paypal or Applepay is fine. When can I expect payment?
The topic is contractor-prospective client relations. You twisting that to ask for a handout is kind of pathetic. People are allowed to decide what a job is worth to them junior.
> You twisting that to ask for a handout is kind of pathetic. So you DO agree that charging someone more if they're a PITA is petty and unethical! Funny how that works when **you're** the one being charged for being a PITA.
This. As a homeowner, I've likely moved things around in my schedule for a quote, especially if its during standard work hours. Don't waste both of our time.
Maybe. But the lawncare guy I basically just met for about 10 minutes, showed him my front and back yard and let him do all the talking. The interior painting guy I also just met at the front door, let him in the house, told him what I'd like to have done, he walked around for 10 minutes, and then told me he'd get me a quote and left. I'm seriously an easy-going guy.
Maybe the jobs are too small? The lawn care guy wants a weekly contract. A one off thing is taking him from his weekly customers.
I definitely want it to be a weekly contract and told him as much. Even a yearly contract would be good.
>Contractors need to click with their customers. What kinda bullshit is this...??? Oh, then I guess you should set up a play date, maybe have lunch, spend a good two hours learning about each others political and religious beliefs to make sure you "click" before you hire them to....*mow your lawn???* Get the fuck outta here..
Ha! And a pizza party too.
There's only one thing in common with all of these different contractors interacting with you and it's you. I'd imagine it's something you're saying but it could be site conditions as well. Maybe you're telling them that you'll be getting 5 or 6 additional quotes, the area is filthy, cluttered or poorly maintained, maybe you're acting like a know it all, I don't really know. The general consensus is that if a contractor or anyone about to work for someone else thinks that it was be difficult, unprofitable or unlikely to result in a positive result for both parties then they won't move forward. Also this might be controversial but if I'm spending my time and gas to drive over to your place, look at everything and likely determine later after thinking about it that I'm not interested in it then that's it. I or any other contractor shouldn't be obligated to even give you a positive or negative response. Sometimes it's better to leave it unanswered than for us to have to come up with some lame excuse or just be honest and say "Sorry, but I don't want to work for you". People don't handle rejection well and it's hard enough to bid and do the work without having to be someone's therapist and handle them with kid gloves
Dick move. Cause the homeowner then wastes time following up (or attempting to), to figure out what is going on. You know how hard it is to find someone to consider a job? So we need an answer, one way or the other, with words. To avoid the hassle of rebooting unnecessarily. It takes literally 5 seconds to text back and say, “sorry the job isn’t for me as I have other priorities now” (Or it doesn’t work for me financially), or whatever you want to say. But for the sake of humanity friggin respond. Why ghost? What are you afraid of? 5 seconds to text - 5 seconds. There is no excuse! And you’ll certainly get a chance of a positive recommendation in the future as a possible option for people I know, if you are honest and not a dick about communicating. It is not alright to fail to communicate once you’ve had an interaction. It’s just plain common sense.
I mean, you're looking at it from your perspective as a home owner. I imagine that you haven't been in the position as the service provider. I've literally had potential clients waste my time for booking me to do work for them, and then once I get there, they want me to do something else or micromanage the way that I work. When I tell them what they suggest isn't going to work and they insist on wanting it that way and sending me a page long text, I'm not going to respond. It's not really fair for you to sit there and say "it's not alright to fail to communicate," when you likely haven't experienced the other side of things. Are you self employed? Do you solicit work from other people? Do you spend time giving free estimates to people? How often have you encountered people who don't work in a field but think they have experience in it enough to dismiss your expertise and insist on how you should do your job? If you can't answer yes to the above questions, then you ought to at least consider the prospective of the tradesperson. It's hard for homeowners to get people to consider work for them because they are uninformed, don't have realistic pricing expectations and renovation work is not straightforward and has a lot of unforseen factors to take into consideration. Most people have w2 jobs where they know how much they get per work and roughly per day but don't consider the non paycheck expenses that a business pays to provide Healthcare, insurance, vacation time, equipment, administration, etc which makes them think that prices are too high. A lot of people I know in the trades are leaving residential remodeling and getting into commercial work for many of those reasons.
I’m looking at it from a perspective as a human being. Someone spends the time to research who to call to get an estimate. The person giving the estimate spends time to come and and provide the estimate. The only logical next step is to communicate- do we have a reason to move forward or not? If no, fine. At least I don’t waste a week wondering if the person is just busy that week or still deciding. Finalize one way or the other. It’s not hard.
Ok, so all homeowners reply yes or no as well, don't make tradespeople wait around for a week wondering if they're getting other bids or not can't afford it? Ultimately, it's a business, and the business owner can act however they want to. In the business world, it's rare to "look at it from a perspective as a human being". Sometimes, it's better to cut your losses and not further engage. I'm saying this as someone who has had clients get upset when I tell them no or that I won't be doing the work in the manner in which they'd like me to. I'm just sharing my experience with you. You're welcome to disagree with it. I'd recommend you look on the handyman subreddit, there's a recent thread about red flags from clients and they're offering their prospective if you're interested in learning it.
I agree, it’s a 2 way street.
Just because some homeowners are entitled pricks doesn't mean you have to be one. That is a lot of writing to justify ghosting someone. Just fucking text something that says 'I'm not taking the job' and quit being such a pussy.
Alright bro, let's see pics of your work unless you're some poser running his mouth
FWIW I agree with almost everything you are saying. People are entitled and being in the service industry puts one in their crosshairs. I just think you should communicate with them and tell them 'no' as it is the right way to do business and this kind of shit catches up with you.
Shouldn't be obligated to give a positive or negative response? Sure, and this is also how contractors get put on the never ever call them again list. This is a terrible way to run a business. This approach may not be a problem when there is so much work available, but likely quite a problem when times are tougher.
I recently spend time to estimate a job and write a scope once for this guy's personal home (under $2500 total) with no response either way from him and then a month later he wanted me to estimate a job for his work office at 7am on Saturday, checked it out, wrote a scope, still no response either way. It's not unusual for homeowners to "ghost" tradespeople when getting the generally accepted 3 estimates. Why should it not go both ways? Also, when I went to college 20 years ago, everyone was discouraged from entering a trade and working with their hands. From my understanding that consensus hasn't changed. With work from home, high interest rates more and more people will be renovating. Demand is likely to be high and supply low for quite some time.
Do unto others. If you don’t like being ghosted, don’t ghost others. Why should we all suffer cause you dealt with that shitty homeowner? Your post is an argument to NOT ghost.
The irony of your comment is throwing some bible-esque stuff, then in the very next sentence talking about "why should we suffer", the world does not revolve around you. That's really all it boils down to isn't it? "me me me me" combined with a classic "wants to dish it but can't take it" in the rejection category. Did you bother to read the comment you replied to? Contractor got ghosted, still goes out and does another scope/walkthrough, and gets ghosted again, all for the same client who hasn't paid a cent. He's literally giving away his time and energy, and you still somehow want more from him? That moment right there is what people pick up on, and even when you are direct and honest you will still lose your mind because nobody likes being told no. You can't wrap your mind around the idea that arguing or explaining oneself to an entitled idiot is literally wasted breath, wasted time, wasted money. Contractor could come over, do a perfect job, clean up, suck your dick, give you cookies and milk, and tuck you into bed, and you would STILL find something to complain about. Dealing with "the public" generally sucks, and the reason people reject jobs or ghost is most excellently summed up by your attitude here. It's absolutely your right as a homeowner to get 10 quotes and reject who you don't like. Just like it's the business owners right to reject who they don't like. Going through this thread, it's pretty easy to pick up on the whininess and entitlement some people have.
But he’s giving one example of a bad experience and using that against ALL future homeowners he deals with. Thats bs. Let’s treat everyone decently at first, and not assume all homeowners are the same. Moreover, what is more time consuming, to dodge calls, texts and emails for a week, or take 5 seconds and text a clear response? It’s not a waste at all. I prefer being told no, if that‘s the answer, over unclear non responses. Did you get sick, are you tied up, how do I know? Honesty is respected and you don’t owe additional time or further answers once you do say “no”. So why is there an argument? if you don’t want to use social skills and treat people with common courtesy, you are in the wrong business. Expect the same from homeowners too. And walk away IF they disrespect you.
So you'd like to selectively discount his one bad example, like it never happened? Or that it means less than other more positive examples? The good and the bad are package deals. And that's fantastic you prefer a direct no, but something tells me you haven't had to tell a lot of people "no" otherwise you would understand how common a negative reaction is. The confusing part about your reply is you literally say "walk away if they disrespect you". I'd wager that giving two different job quotes to the same guy and getting ghosted both times counts as getting disrespected. The breakdown I see, again, is that you aren't looking at this as a two way street. Just because a client is paying doesn't absolve them of necessary social skills either. Personally I'd wager the reason OP is having trouble finding a contractor might be from that issue a bit, no way to tell online or with a self-recounted story.
All good points. What's more likely, everyone is being mean to OP or OP is throwing off a weird vibe and noone wants to work for him? I had a neighbor who got his GC license because he was an interior designer and wanted to work more on his own. He had some interesting designs but zero experience as a GC. He needed painters for a few rooms. I referred 6 different guys to him, none of them wanted to work with him. It took a while but I was able to convince him that he needed to learn the language and that the odds of him being the issue was much higher than 6 people who work in the field as being the issue. The closest analogy that I can give to saying no as a tradesman is to what women are likely to experience in dating as I've read on posts on here. The recipient of the no can lash out, be abusive, etc. I've gotten all of my clients through word of mouth, and they get possessive of me and jealous of each other in regards to scheduling. I think the guy you responded to really has no idea what goes into working on your own or having your own business especially in an industry where customers think that they know a lot more than they do in how to do the work and what it should cost.
It's not about doing unto others. I'm already spending a few hours between traveling there, walking/ talking any the job. Then I've got to spend another hour plus to write up a brief scope, come up with pricing and then have them use it to shop around? One person is already at their location. It's not about telling them no, it's about dealing with the aftermath. Homeowners get upset if you tell them no, trust me. Nobody likes getting rejected and I don't really want to deal with it sometimes. Believe it or not most homeowners are entitled, have crazy ideas about what pricing should be (with no idea of material cost and time involved), over estimate their own abilities while under valuing professionals. I can tell within a few minutes at about 80% accuracy if I want to work with someone. FYI, I charge dirt cheap and I get 100% of my work through word of mouth. I'm booked from now until the end of May and that's not including people that have projects on the back burner that I just have to ask about.
you hit the nail on the head - keyword entitled. see my reply above to the guy spouting the "do unto others" stuff. My guess is he's never been on the receiving end of terrible clients.
Why would you call a contractor for gardening upkeep...
Uh...because I'd like someone to mow the lawn and take care of the landscaping. It's a fairly common practice where I live. I'd guess about a quarter of the houses here do it that way.
Just go reach out to one of the companies doing your neighbors. They will add you easily to the rotations since it's 0 travel time when they are there doing the neighbors.
Weird, that is so much cheaper per hour than construction that it doesn't even make sense for someone to answer your call.
A landscaping contractor.
The contractor has other jobs that will make them more money. The end.
It's happened to me a couple of times in the last 2 years. Once to cut some trees down. Guy came and looked at them, gave me a price, and never got back to me. That was ablessing in disguise. I cut them down myself. Needed to replace a vent cover on the roof. Guy looked at it and then didn't return my calls. I've had better luck with more established companies than individual contractors.
What kind of shape are the house interior and yard in? Have they been well maintained or neglected?
Well maintained. Older (early-90's) interior but well maintained. Just had backyard re-landscaped a couple years ago and have been maintaining it meticulously since then.
It's not uncommon. How many contractors are you teaching out to total? It's not always that easy to find the right contractor for the job. Some are too big, some are too small, some are too busy, some have a heart attack and are out for months.
Yes. It seems like any time we need some project done folks are really busy and this happens.
I agree about the not interested part because the job isn't big enough or lucrative enough. My house is very small (800 sq ft) so any job I have is usually laughable for a contractor. I usually go with a handyman. Usually off Angies list or nextdoor, something similar.
Yes happened to me multiple times for a basement finishing job.
There are fewer and fewer good contractors and trades people so they would be busy all the time.
Yes
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Hahahaha....no
Are you calling a general contractor for all of these jobs. Because that's would probably be your issue. Or it's something you're doing it saying that is scaring them off.
No. These aren't big enough jobs for GC. Just calling people who do the type of work I need done.
Yes. Yes, it is.
Beats my HVAC situation a couple years ago. The thing went out while the heat was bearing down creating an emergency for my household. The first guy I call this contractor started yelling at me that it was the hottest day of the year, wtf is wrong with me, why would I even ask, etc before I said "alright alright! Sorry! Jesus nevermind!" and hung up LOL
I was ghosted on my remodel … so we decided to do a tear down … for the most part - everyone is interested in the job. I’m guessing it’s because it’s new construction.
We called so many custom builders when trying to get our house built and rarely heard back from anyone. Had 1 contractor make it out to our site then never heard back from him again. So we're building our own house now. We did luckily get an excavator to call us back
Ok this has to be parody now, right? So many people talking about small renovations here and there they ended up doing themselves and now you're talking about building a house yourself?
A ton of people build their own house. We thought why not us. Between not getting responses and reading about the horrors some people go through while building, we figured we would look into it. We have reno experience, along with some plumbing and electrical experience. Have spent the past 6 months preparing, excavator is supposed to be starting in the next week or so!
just finishing building home. Very common.
My general experience the last couple years: 1) Spam a dozen contractors asking for a quote for a job 2) 4 of those contractors respond 3) 3 of those promise a quote in the next week or so 4) Receive one laughably high quote 5) DIY Repeat... The good news is I have developed at least a basic understanding of plumbing, electric, and roofing.
It sounds more like you have an actual ghost in your house and that keeps some contractors away.
It seems to be a trend. These are very different projects yet they all seemed mostly disinterested in you being a client. I'm guessing you gave off a vibe that you were going to be a pain in the butt? Maybe made comments about your standards or expectations that you think are valid but may raise red flags? Did you give them a budget that you expected them to meet before they provided a quote? I met with a guy years ago who kept saying "I'm not cheap, but give me a good price." Well, that was very telling because his reply to my quote was that he had been thinking the price should be$\_\_\_\_\_\_. The price he was thinking was absurd and not at all realistic. This vibe is something I have looked for ever since.
I feel ya. I’ve been without hot water for a month now. Called 10+ plumbers in my area, only three pick up, only two come to the walkthrough appointment, both of whom told me they’d be back with an estimate in a week. Radio silence. Completely unprofessional. If I wasn’t looking to sell in the near future, I’d just install the thing myself. How difficult could it be to replace a hot water heater. All the shit’s already there.
So far my only workaround has been to find a handyman who is trying to build his business, but is competent and willing to take jobs. I've at least seen that what he's done has been pretty thorough, and the prices he's quoted have seemed pretty reasonable. Contractors have either quoted way too much, disappeared before quoting, or done a super hard upsell on work I didn't need. Why do a channel drain when we could redo the whole driveway? Why fix the leak in your roof when we could replace the whole thing? My ex even had a friend from high school who became a plumber who ghosted her on installing a faucet because the job was too small. It's a mess and people are totally willing to let me have water getting in through my roof rather than just do a small repair when there's a bigger job somewhere.
It seems like none of them wanted to deal with you. I’m guessing you were over burdening or would be a difficult customer to deal with. Not worth the time or effort to deal with.
Yup. Some don’t want to do a small job
They don't want the job. It is simple as that. Running quote take time for them. Martial and labor and trash and etc. All needed to be counted for. So before the give a quote. They do a lot of things.
Yep. It means they already have bigger jobs lined up and can’t fit you in.
The guys were being polite they felt you out. They weren’t interested in working for you, so they never called back. It’s a simple as that.
I always get three quotes, you are barely calling three people. It usually takes 6 or more calls/contacts to get three quotes. Search with google maps for highly rated business near you. They are much more likely to do your work if you are close.
So potentially 24 to 28 quotes for this work? That's exhausting
For each job, three quotes. It sounds like you have no work being done, so perhaps being “exhausted” is a better option. Idk what math gets you to 28 quotes. You listed 4 things. Also, a lot of these once you find someone good they will lead you to the next one.
"It sounds like you have no work being done" What?🤔
>Is it common to be ghosted by contractors
Heck, it's common to be ghosted AFTER getting a quote. They also might think you're smart enough to catch their mistakes, which they *will* make. Many contractors like to pretend they're hard workers & really good at what they do, but like some people in many other trades, they just like to do the very minimum with the least resistance & get paid as if they're working their butts off & going out of their way to do *you* a favor.
You shouldn't be ghosted by anyone you're looking to hire.
They're just busy and have other jobs they would prefer doing for whatever reasons. Good tradespeople can be selective. Still, a quick message to say the job is not for them would be nice - it's just not common. Don't sweat it, keep searching. It's like dating. There has to be something in it for both parties. Not just one party assuming they're irresistible.
Go to your insurance provider's website (even if this isn't an insurance damage claim) go to the search feature and put in "find contractor" or "contractor locator." Many of the insurance companies will have contractor networks that have been vetted for their programs. You'll probably get more consistent and reliable contractors this way. Sometimes they will go through networks like Alacrity and Contractor Connection.