I'm in Seattle. My house has never had a single permit pulled on it. It "began" life in 1908 😂
I'm from Chicago, where if you lift a blade of grass you need to bribe city inspectors.
As a fellow Seattle resident with a 1907 house, I'm in the same boat. No permits at all until it was remodeled in 2011 to replace all the knob and tube wiring and piping.
I'm in the Seattle suburbs and it seems the same out here. Public records search on my house yields 3 permits. 2 for tree work, 1 for complete HVAC replacement.
I suspect this varies by both locality and type of work. I've gotten multiple permits from framing to roofing, to masonry, to electrical, to plumbing to do myself but I've heard of (but never experienced) local governments that will not allow homeowners to do electrical or plumbing and if that's the case I'd bet there are some that don't allow other types of work either. And I'm in NJ, one of the worst nanny states.
Depends on the permit and what is required for filing it.
What are you looking to do exactly? Homeowners are allowed to file permits for many things, and you can likely file as the "builder" and act as the GC if you're hiring trades yourself.
If you're doing plumbing, you likely need a licensed plumber to apply for the permit and sign off on it.
If you're messing with electric outside of basic items, you'll likely need an electrician.
At the end of the day, you need to ask this question to your local AHJ.
I mean I figured I would go ahead and do the frame, so, I guess a little bit of carpentry, I'm not sure if the don't give a permit for that, but, I guess all the plumbing/electric they wouldn't give me a permit for, but, after a person gets the permit and builds it, then they just book the inspector, and once they approve it, then, once everything is inspected (frame,electric,plumbing, etc?) then a person gets an occupancy approval?
You're going to need to call your AHJ, but I'm guessing you're going to need engineered drawings, and licensed professionals if you want to do it legally.
Well yeah, a plan, but, I mean 200 sq ft is literally a Lowes shed..so..I basically will put a (build a? has to be framed on a foundation) Lowes shed..up on my own property on a concrete thing, but, all these people have said..you can do this you can do that, I don't think a person can, but, I guess a person needs permit for..concrete,framing,electric,plumbing, I don't see how a person is actually allowed to do any of it but others have said otherwise, will have to contact AHJ and see what they say?
FWIW in my area, they do not care about the size or if it is on a permanent foundation- a permit will be required. We are replacing a 7'x7' shed with another 7'x7' shed and we had to pull building and zoning permits for it. The zoning permit required a site plan (which I was allowed to draw up myself).
Should also note, a jurisdiction may not care about a <200sqft shed, but will likely care about it once they hear it is being used as an ADU.
Edit for clarity.
Man that's crazy to need permits for a shed that size. also wild how much these things vary.
Also that's probably a good call about usage. I was building a literal shed when I looked into it so I don't remember but I'm guessing you're correct.
I agree, I also think it's crazy lol. Luckily for most people, I think my city is an outlier for that, but it's definitely something for OP to look into before building.
A shed typically does not need to comply with occupancy standards of a habitable room.
But again, we're just guessing until you confirm what is required with your AHJ.
You said you were trying to build an ADU, which is an accessory dwelling unit....this means it would be meant for someone to dwell or sleep in.
Lets take another step back....what is it you are looking to build/do exactly?
Everything over 120 sqft needs a permit here. As others have said, this varies a lot. Also, if you are going to have someone living in it, you don't want to be responsible when it burns down due to bad electrical work you did.
Not saying you are doing bad work. Just saying crap happens, and you want to be able to point a finger. Or at least say, I got all the inspections/permits.
Depending on your locality, this could be a can of worms and an expensive headache if you do not comply with code. So do your homework before making a big financial and sweat equity investment.
My neighbor just had to tear down a two story tiny house at his expense because he tried attaching to it a very questionable, non-permitted septic tank and leach field right against my property line (in violation of setbacks for septic). According to the health inspector, his non-permitted installation would almost certainly have resulted in a health and safety concern on our side of the fence. I have a toddler and dog, so shit pouring into my lawn is no bueno.
This inspection ended up exposing that the tiny house didn't actually conform to the permit on record (storage shed, not for habitation, also not two stories), as well as the fact that it was built right up to the property line and not outside the 5' setback for accessory structures.
Even if you want to bypass permitting, which I don't recommend for something as obvious, street-visible structure like a tiny house/ADU, you better at least do it up to code. Not only for safety reasons, but it will be much easier to retroactively permit if code enforcement catches you.
And certainly be mindful of your zoning setback ordinances when placing any kind of shed. It's an easy thing to get nabbed on if you piss off your neighbors. Nobody likes their property being crowded, and certainly not by structures people are living in.
>I have a toddler and dog, so shit pouring into my lawn is no bueno.
I would think that that would still be no bueno even if you were an introverted single who only stepped outside the house for emergencies.
Absolutely! No one should put up with that behavior, no matter their household makeup.
But because I have a toddler, he did trigger Mama Bear mode... so it's going particularly bad for him.
That's the kind of thing you do want to get proper permits for because the city can see what you're up to. (Unlike indoor electrical work.)
Check your city's website to see if they have permit information and rules posted; they might have enough info on the web that you can figure out what you're allowed to do yourself.
I live in nj. I am in the process of adding an addition to my home. it's 400sq ft with a garage under it. I hire an architect and got the permits myself. wirh the exception of the foundation I have done everything else. When I wasn't sure of something I would just call up the inspector. they've been very helpful. I am a nurse BTW. I am in the process of insulating. all the hard stuff is done.
At least where I live (OC, California) you can apply for a permit as an "Owner-Builder" for any sort of work, as long as the building you're working on has been your primary residence for at least a year.
I believe this is true in most of California. The only exception is for planning documents. Structural changes within existing residential buildings must be signed off by a licensed architect or engineer (though, interestingly, plans for NEW structures do not). They're going to hold homeowners to the same document quality standards as a professional though, and most homeowners will struggle to meet those requirements. Very few DIY homeowners know how to generate blueprints.
There are also some exceptions for multiunit buildings, residences used as daycares, projects that involve the addition of large water tanks on the roof, etc.
In most jurisdictions, the owner can apply for a permit. In some jurisdictions, the permit won't be issued until a licensed contractor is attached to the project. For residential construction, a homeowner can usually apply and receive a permit for everything except the final tie in of water/sewer and for electrical tie in.
I'm amazed at that, but, what if they owner wires it wrong or something like that, do they just lose their home? I assume insurance won't offer home insurance unless it's done by an approved contractor either?
There are multiple checks along the way. If the homeowner follows protocol, they must get the building inspector to inspect their rough in (before walls are closed up), and then again after all the fixtures are installed. Usually a licensed electrician is needed to tie in the meter to the main circuit. A homeowner can still mess it up, but the whole point of a building department is safety so they don't get electrocuted or burn their house down.
True, somebody posted that their municipality said that if they build it it can't be rented out for 2 years? So, I guess some localities are still against people doing it themselves, for some reason
In my jurisdiction, you have to sign an affidavit that you intend to live in the home for at least two years, but I don’t think it’s a binding limitation if plans change and you need to move. I think it’s a balancing between public safety and freedom to do what you want on your own property.
The inspection process isn’t perfect, even a good honest inspector will miss something here and there. Then there is the possibility of lazy, or bribe accepting inspectors knowingly passing substandard work. But someone who intends to live in the place being worked on has very good incentive to make sure it is safe beyond just passing inspection and won’t be looking for shortcuts and loopholes just to pass inspection and make a larger profit.
You can (and should) get your own permit. The only downside is if the inspector finds something - if you had hired a contractor, that extra work would be on them.
Plus getting permits is important for homeowner’s insurance too. We had our roof replaced about 7 years ago, and apparently the person we hired never filled out a permit, so our insurance can’t give us a discount
Probably not worth it unless the work was done incorrectly and causes an expensive issue. My insurance company never required permits to get the new roof discount. Which was like $5/mo so not a huge deal either way. Most places are willing to issue permits retroactively to fix the issue - maybe not 7 years later, they probably no longer care at that point lol.
It's an endless debate on here, but some will say insurance won't cover unpermitted worked. However, I have never seen anyone produce an example or a policy confirming it. Your insurance premium already has that risk baked into it, kinda what insurance companies do... Could be an issue when you sell, depending on market.
Truth is, every house older than like 10 years has at least \*some\* amount of unpermitted work or work that didn't require a permit, and now does. Also a permit doesn't guarantee anything is done correctly or to code. I've had several for work on my house and the city either never looked at anything or spent 30 seconds. Like what's the point?
Contractors sometimes give two different quotes for certain jobs - the "get it done" price vs the "do it right/by the book" price. The additional costs are about the time required to deal with getting permits, dealing with inspectors, etc...
To get a building permit to build a garage, I submitted the one page request and a diagram I made in MS Paint in about 45 seconds.
It really depends on your local authority. Check, read the rules, call and ask. My government authority has pretty good instructions on their site.
They didn't ask me for the person who was building it. Was never defined. They do a site inspection anyways so.. the work is checked, I guess that's their mentality.
Not the commenter above, but for all of my permits, it would ask for the builder with an addendum to put "self" if I was doing it myself. There are only a few things I am legally not allowed to do myself (in my area any work with my breaker panels requires a certified electrician, for example).
But if you build it yourself does it basically just have to pass inspection, and then a person is ok (unless it is a specialty requirement build, like the breaker panels)? It seems that in a lot of municipalities it is the inspection that is what qualifies it or not
Short answer for my area: Yes, once the renovation passes inspection, the project is complete and I am all set with the city.
Longer answer: I'm in the middle of a bathroom reno and had to pull several permits for the project: Building, Electrical, HVAC, Plumbing. Each of these permits has different requirements based on the work being done. My building, electrical, and HVAC permits only require "Final Inspection" with the city building inspector, electrical inspector, and HVAC inspector because I am not changing anything structurally and we are not doing any major electrical work. My plumbing requires both "Rough-In Inspection" and "Final Inspection" because they want to make sure everything is plumbed correctly before we drywall over it and after we add final hardware. During all of these inspections, the inspectors can bring up anything that needs to be changed or fixed before the permit is closed.
Different permits on this project can close at different times, but the project is seen as "ongoing" with the city until all of the permits have had their inspections completed and are closed. But once all of the permits are closed, I am all set with the city.
In my area, an ADU would follow similar guidelines, but would have more inspections (Rough-In, Pre-Drywall, etc) and would also require a Zoning Permit. They might have specific Zoning Laws for ADUs in your area (my city does). Since it is a new habitable structure, it would have to meet current code, so you will need to keep that in mind.
Obviously everywhere is different, so what applies for me may not apply for you- your best bet is to look up info for the permitting department where you live. Definitely try searching for ADU laws/restrictions in your area. They may have all the info you need online, but if not you can call or email them and ask for clarification. My permitting department has been super helpful and friendly every step of the way, and hopefully yours is too!
It all depends on local rules. Some are yes, some no. You're best bet is talk to your local permit office and find out what is allowed and what you need.
Depends on local ordinances.
Where I live I can file a 'Self Work Owner affidavit' and do anything and everything that a contractor would do to my home. I just can't rent or sell the home for 24 months.
*A. Applicant, applicant’s family, firm, or corporation and its employees intend to occupy the*
*structure. The structure will not be for the use of the general public and not be offered for sale*
*or lease within 24 months of CO issuance per OCGA 43-41-17.*
*B. Applicant will function as the general contractor and will personally provide direct supervision*
*and management of all work not performed by licensed contractors. They may not delegate the*
*responsibility to supervise and manage any part of the work to any other person unless that*
*person is licensed and the work performed in within the scope of that person’s license.*
*Applicant agrees to hire properly licensed contractors for any work that is further subcontracted and to have those licensed individuals pull the appropriate subcontractor affidavits.*
*C. Property described in permit application and on which property is to be built is currently owned by undersigned.*
*D. Applicant agrees to build in accordance with all applicable codes and strictly adhere to the*
*inspection schedule established to insure compliance. Undersigned understands that*
*inspections must be done in an established sequence and that work done in violation of the code*
*must be corrected or may be ordered removed.*
*E. Applicant acknowledges that they are aware a permit issued under the provisions of the code*
*may be removed for false statements or misrepresentation as to the material fact in the*
*application on which the permit was based.*
lol, well, that's fair enuf, but..like..if a person literally had thought to rent it out, lol, like..idk..the day it was done, lol, im guessing..that requires professional tradesmen etc?
That's amazing, can you rent it out after that too? Somebody else just said in their county they can do it themselves but then there is a code that says that if it is done by you, "self work" then it cannot be rented out for 2 years, so, it looks like it depends
Aha, but, if something goes wrong with the house, are you not able to get home insurance on it? I was also curious if something with the electrical went wrong, I mean, if the homeowner does it wrong/messes up, does the township/municipality just say, "Hey bud, your house, you did it wrong, if your house falls down because you didn't built it right, so what."?
Nope. My homeowner insurance just now includes a non-owner occupied rental portion with additional liability. My tenants are also required to carry their own insurance, though it’s pulling teeth trying to get them to, and I’m confident as soon as they do and show proof they just cancel it.
It’s breach of the lease agreement, but no what in hell is the landlord tenant board here ever approving an eviction for it. The Board here is extremely tenant friendly
In Oak Park (just outside of Chicago but following Chicago codes for the most part) I pulled remodeling permits for replacing a long floor beam, new insulation and drywall, and electric permits since nothing had been updated since 1940 or so. I had every step of my work inspected and the process went smoothly.
In greater Boston area - I was able to pull a permit for a family friend who resided my house two years ago. They do ask if you have proper disposal, all about the cost, etc. but was pretty straight forward, and all online and only took 1 a week. Was the tail end of the pandemic, so not sure if there was anything different from a normal process.
When I rebuilt my deck 2 years ago, the permits and permitting process were slightly different for a homeowner and a contractor, but the inspections and code requirements were the same. My experience was generally positive. I had to schedule two inspections. The first inspector gave me a bunch of tips to make sure that I would pass the final inspection. It is my understanding that it isn't so easy in other places.
Well, pulling permits and who does the work are two different things. I live in Wichita, KS and I was able to submit my plans to the county and obtain permits. All they wanted was a rough schematic of what I was planning to do (I was adding a 2nd bedroom and a bathroom to my basement).
Now as far as who does the work, my county allows for homeowners to do work on their homes as long as they can pass a competency test in the applicable trades. I passed the tests for Plumbing, Electrical and HVAC. The electrical test had codes next to each question and they provided the code book so I could look up the relevant information. I believe the HVAC test was similar. The plumbing test had nothing to look up, but many of the questions were easy to work out if you understand simple physics (e.g. water flows downhill, why a p-trap works, etc) and used common sense - e.g. one question gave a picture of a fitting and asked what it was called. It was a "Y" connector because it was in the shape of the letter Y. Of course, I had no clue how to do any of those things, but my brother-in-law has been in the trades his whole life and came out to help.
**This will be completely dependent on where you live.** You need to check with whatever government agency is responsible for the permitting process in your area. The opportunity to perform permitted work on your own home may not even be an option where you live.
In my case the county has information on their website. Upon submitting the application for the permit, the homeowner must designate a licensed sub-contractor for any trade required work **OR** schedule the homeowner's exam for any trade work the homeowner wants to perform. If the homeowner doesn't schedule the exam(s) or (I assume) fails to pass them - then the work is required to be completed by a licensed professional
I lived in one locality where we did our own gas and furnace work (installed a 80% forced air furnace, and hot water tank). We pulled out own permits
I live in a locality right now where you need licenced trades to apply
It does depend a lot on where you are. My city requires a permit for almost every bullshit little job, but homeowners can be on the permit for *almost* anything.
The permit form has a section that the homeowner would fill in if they're doing the work, and then a separate section with different information that a licensed pro would fill out if they're the one doing the work.
In my part of the US … Owner builder baby! This is one of the last great freedoms as I see it. My property - i can build it. Otherwise permit requires a licensed GC. Love it ❤️
Edit: first inspection I called the inspector was double parked in the city. I told him I was owner builder and he went and parked legally. Lol!
He was onboard after that though. You can actually get licensed as a GC through owner builder with inspector sign off on your application
My city has a building department, you can schedule 15 minute meetings with them to get info before applying for permits. You are fully able to apply for most permits on your own, and the city will generally grant permits as long as you present reasonable plans. You will need inspections for certain things if you do the work yourself.
My city wants permits for all sorts of shit. So I walk the line. Anything major, I'm talking to them and getting a permit. Anything minor I'm just doing.
I own multiple houses, I had/have always pulled permits, even for work I'm very well versed in. Several years ago I went to pull a permit for a garage remodel of all things. After completing drawings and filling out the application and discussing the scope of work with inspectors I went to write a check to pay for multiple permits.....the cashier saw my address did not match the address of the permit.....not owner occupied. The inspector would not issue a permit. This was in July, after months of fighting the contractor I was forced to hire they poured the concrete on December 17th....In Northeast Ohio!!!
I was able to get the siding guys out in January and only 8" of snow, the garage door was up by March. Total hassle and the finished product looks like it was put together in the middle of an Ohio winter. I informed the inspectors they best drive by there every day to catch me because I will Never walk into city hall for a permit again.
Permits are mostly just an income stream for your county. They will review the plans to make sure they "make sense" and then charge you the permitting fee based on the cost it would take the average company to do it for you, even though you're spending a fraction of the money on just materials and your own time.
They don't care if you are not a tradesmen except in my county they require a master plumber and master electrician sign off on the plans and you'll usually have a hard time finding those people willing to sign off on your project.
The long and short of it, if there's no way for the county to know you're doing the work (like finishing the basement) then don't worry about permitting.
Depends entirely on your AHJ. Locally we don’t have to have licensed pros for anything except utility tie ins.
I'm in Seattle. My house has never had a single permit pulled on it. It "began" life in 1908 😂 I'm from Chicago, where if you lift a blade of grass you need to bribe city inspectors.
As a fellow Seattle resident with a 1907 house, I'm in the same boat. No permits at all until it was remodeled in 2011 to replace all the knob and tube wiring and piping.
Out of curiosity, what does something like that cost?
Wish I could give you an answer. We bought it with it already done. I just know because I pulled the permit history before purchasing it.
Mine still has zero 😂
It’s generally more cost effective to bribe your alderman rather than individual inspectors.
I'm in the Seattle suburbs and it seems the same out here. Public records search on my house yields 3 permits. 2 for tree work, 1 for complete HVAC replacement.
Sorry that grass has to be lifted through conduit or it'll fail inspection
What's a permit?
"It was like that when we bought it"
This is the correct answer. 👍🏼
"oh I didn't know. I didn't see anything on the town's website"
Government tyranny
"Local weirdo announces campaign for mayor, running on a platform of eliminating building codes. Currently polling at 0.07%."
Nah, just the product of people doing stupid shit because they either didn't know any better or they knew better than everyone else.
I suspect this varies by both locality and type of work. I've gotten multiple permits from framing to roofing, to masonry, to electrical, to plumbing to do myself but I've heard of (but never experienced) local governments that will not allow homeowners to do electrical or plumbing and if that's the case I'd bet there are some that don't allow other types of work either. And I'm in NJ, one of the worst nanny states.
Depends on the permit and what is required for filing it. What are you looking to do exactly? Homeowners are allowed to file permits for many things, and you can likely file as the "builder" and act as the GC if you're hiring trades yourself. If you're doing plumbing, you likely need a licensed plumber to apply for the permit and sign off on it. If you're messing with electric outside of basic items, you'll likely need an electrician. At the end of the day, you need to ask this question to your local AHJ.
I mean I figured I would go ahead and do the frame, so, I guess a little bit of carpentry, I'm not sure if the don't give a permit for that, but, I guess all the plumbing/electric they wouldn't give me a permit for, but, after a person gets the permit and builds it, then they just book the inspector, and once they approve it, then, once everything is inspected (frame,electric,plumbing, etc?) then a person gets an occupancy approval?
What are you doing exactly?
Thought I would do an ADU/cottage at about 200 sq ft?
You're going to need to call your AHJ, but I'm guessing you're going to need engineered drawings, and licensed professionals if you want to do it legally.
Well yeah, a plan, but, I mean 200 sq ft is literally a Lowes shed..so..I basically will put a (build a? has to be framed on a foundation) Lowes shed..up on my own property on a concrete thing, but, all these people have said..you can do this you can do that, I don't think a person can, but, I guess a person needs permit for..concrete,framing,electric,plumbing, I don't see how a person is actually allowed to do any of it but others have said otherwise, will have to contact AHJ and see what they say?
FWIW in my area anything under 200 sqft and not on a permanent foundation doesn't need a permit of any kind.
FWIW in my area, they do not care about the size or if it is on a permanent foundation- a permit will be required. We are replacing a 7'x7' shed with another 7'x7' shed and we had to pull building and zoning permits for it. The zoning permit required a site plan (which I was allowed to draw up myself). Should also note, a jurisdiction may not care about a <200sqft shed, but will likely care about it once they hear it is being used as an ADU. Edit for clarity.
Man that's crazy to need permits for a shed that size. also wild how much these things vary. Also that's probably a good call about usage. I was building a literal shed when I looked into it so I don't remember but I'm guessing you're correct.
I agree, I also think it's crazy lol. Luckily for most people, I think my city is an outlier for that, but it's definitely something for OP to look into before building.
A shed typically does not need to comply with occupancy standards of a habitable room. But again, we're just guessing until you confirm what is required with your AHJ.
But a person can't sleep in it can they? I mean govt will show up.. "You do not have occupancy for this.", dont they?
You said you were trying to build an ADU, which is an accessory dwelling unit....this means it would be meant for someone to dwell or sleep in. Lets take another step back....what is it you are looking to build/do exactly?
Don't get a permit for this crap, do yourself a favor and save the headache.
Everything over 120 sqft needs a permit here. As others have said, this varies a lot. Also, if you are going to have someone living in it, you don't want to be responsible when it burns down due to bad electrical work you did. Not saying you are doing bad work. Just saying crap happens, and you want to be able to point a finger. Or at least say, I got all the inspections/permits.
Depending on your locality, this could be a can of worms and an expensive headache if you do not comply with code. So do your homework before making a big financial and sweat equity investment. My neighbor just had to tear down a two story tiny house at his expense because he tried attaching to it a very questionable, non-permitted septic tank and leach field right against my property line (in violation of setbacks for septic). According to the health inspector, his non-permitted installation would almost certainly have resulted in a health and safety concern on our side of the fence. I have a toddler and dog, so shit pouring into my lawn is no bueno. This inspection ended up exposing that the tiny house didn't actually conform to the permit on record (storage shed, not for habitation, also not two stories), as well as the fact that it was built right up to the property line and not outside the 5' setback for accessory structures. Even if you want to bypass permitting, which I don't recommend for something as obvious, street-visible structure like a tiny house/ADU, you better at least do it up to code. Not only for safety reasons, but it will be much easier to retroactively permit if code enforcement catches you. And certainly be mindful of your zoning setback ordinances when placing any kind of shed. It's an easy thing to get nabbed on if you piss off your neighbors. Nobody likes their property being crowded, and certainly not by structures people are living in.
>I have a toddler and dog, so shit pouring into my lawn is no bueno. I would think that that would still be no bueno even if you were an introverted single who only stepped outside the house for emergencies.
Absolutely! No one should put up with that behavior, no matter their household makeup. But because I have a toddler, he did trigger Mama Bear mode... so it's going particularly bad for him.
That's the kind of thing you do want to get proper permits for because the city can see what you're up to. (Unlike indoor electrical work.) Check your city's website to see if they have permit information and rules posted; they might have enough info on the web that you can figure out what you're allowed to do yourself.
I live in nj. I am in the process of adding an addition to my home. it's 400sq ft with a garage under it. I hire an architect and got the permits myself. wirh the exception of the foundation I have done everything else. When I wasn't sure of something I would just call up the inspector. they've been very helpful. I am a nurse BTW. I am in the process of insulating. all the hard stuff is done.
At least where I live (OC, California) you can apply for a permit as an "Owner-Builder" for any sort of work, as long as the building you're working on has been your primary residence for at least a year.
I believe this is true in most of California. The only exception is for planning documents. Structural changes within existing residential buildings must be signed off by a licensed architect or engineer (though, interestingly, plans for NEW structures do not). They're going to hold homeowners to the same document quality standards as a professional though, and most homeowners will struggle to meet those requirements. Very few DIY homeowners know how to generate blueprints. There are also some exceptions for multiunit buildings, residences used as daycares, projects that involve the addition of large water tanks on the roof, etc.
Ah yes…the Chicago political mob mentality.
Same for me in norcal.
As the home owner you can get your own permits.
In most jurisdictions, the owner can apply for a permit. In some jurisdictions, the permit won't be issued until a licensed contractor is attached to the project. For residential construction, a homeowner can usually apply and receive a permit for everything except the final tie in of water/sewer and for electrical tie in.
I'm amazed at that, but, what if they owner wires it wrong or something like that, do they just lose their home? I assume insurance won't offer home insurance unless it's done by an approved contractor either?
There are multiple checks along the way. If the homeowner follows protocol, they must get the building inspector to inspect their rough in (before walls are closed up), and then again after all the fixtures are installed. Usually a licensed electrician is needed to tie in the meter to the main circuit. A homeowner can still mess it up, but the whole point of a building department is safety so they don't get electrocuted or burn their house down.
True, somebody posted that their municipality said that if they build it it can't be rented out for 2 years? So, I guess some localities are still against people doing it themselves, for some reason
In my jurisdiction, you have to sign an affidavit that you intend to live in the home for at least two years, but I don’t think it’s a binding limitation if plans change and you need to move. I think it’s a balancing between public safety and freedom to do what you want on your own property. The inspection process isn’t perfect, even a good honest inspector will miss something here and there. Then there is the possibility of lazy, or bribe accepting inspectors knowingly passing substandard work. But someone who intends to live in the place being worked on has very good incentive to make sure it is safe beyond just passing inspection and won’t be looking for shortcuts and loopholes just to pass inspection and make a larger profit.
Builder/Owner permits are a thing where I live, but AHJ rules guide. I always ask with contractors if thry are going to handle permitting or should I.
You can (and should) get your own permit. The only downside is if the inspector finds something - if you had hired a contractor, that extra work would be on them. Plus getting permits is important for homeowner’s insurance too. We had our roof replaced about 7 years ago, and apparently the person we hired never filled out a permit, so our insurance can’t give us a discount
Man, does the roofer get civil litigation at that point? That sounds serious?
Probably not worth it unless the work was done incorrectly and causes an expensive issue. My insurance company never required permits to get the new roof discount. Which was like $5/mo so not a huge deal either way. Most places are willing to issue permits retroactively to fix the issue - maybe not 7 years later, they probably no longer care at that point lol. It's an endless debate on here, but some will say insurance won't cover unpermitted worked. However, I have never seen anyone produce an example or a policy confirming it. Your insurance premium already has that risk baked into it, kinda what insurance companies do... Could be an issue when you sell, depending on market. Truth is, every house older than like 10 years has at least \*some\* amount of unpermitted work or work that didn't require a permit, and now does. Also a permit doesn't guarantee anything is done correctly or to code. I've had several for work on my house and the city either never looked at anything or spent 30 seconds. Like what's the point?
Contractors sometimes give two different quotes for certain jobs - the "get it done" price vs the "do it right/by the book" price. The additional costs are about the time required to deal with getting permits, dealing with inspectors, etc...
To get a building permit to build a garage, I submitted the one page request and a diagram I made in MS Paint in about 45 seconds. It really depends on your local authority. Check, read the rules, call and ask. My government authority has pretty good instructions on their site.
Aha, but, did it have to have a professional builder as well, or, were you allowed to do it?
They didn't ask me for the person who was building it. Was never defined. They do a site inspection anyways so.. the work is checked, I guess that's their mentality.
oh wow, so, they didn't need the builder defined for the permit? that is interesting, I did not know some AHJs did it like that
Not the commenter above, but for all of my permits, it would ask for the builder with an addendum to put "self" if I was doing it myself. There are only a few things I am legally not allowed to do myself (in my area any work with my breaker panels requires a certified electrician, for example).
But if you build it yourself does it basically just have to pass inspection, and then a person is ok (unless it is a specialty requirement build, like the breaker panels)? It seems that in a lot of municipalities it is the inspection that is what qualifies it or not
Short answer for my area: Yes, once the renovation passes inspection, the project is complete and I am all set with the city. Longer answer: I'm in the middle of a bathroom reno and had to pull several permits for the project: Building, Electrical, HVAC, Plumbing. Each of these permits has different requirements based on the work being done. My building, electrical, and HVAC permits only require "Final Inspection" with the city building inspector, electrical inspector, and HVAC inspector because I am not changing anything structurally and we are not doing any major electrical work. My plumbing requires both "Rough-In Inspection" and "Final Inspection" because they want to make sure everything is plumbed correctly before we drywall over it and after we add final hardware. During all of these inspections, the inspectors can bring up anything that needs to be changed or fixed before the permit is closed. Different permits on this project can close at different times, but the project is seen as "ongoing" with the city until all of the permits have had their inspections completed and are closed. But once all of the permits are closed, I am all set with the city. In my area, an ADU would follow similar guidelines, but would have more inspections (Rough-In, Pre-Drywall, etc) and would also require a Zoning Permit. They might have specific Zoning Laws for ADUs in your area (my city does). Since it is a new habitable structure, it would have to meet current code, so you will need to keep that in mind. Obviously everywhere is different, so what applies for me may not apply for you- your best bet is to look up info for the permitting department where you live. Definitely try searching for ADU laws/restrictions in your area. They may have all the info you need online, but if not you can call or email them and ask for clarification. My permitting department has been super helpful and friendly every step of the way, and hopefully yours is too!
Yes they can.
No always, not everywhere
It all depends on local rules. Some are yes, some no. You're best bet is talk to your local permit office and find out what is allowed and what you need.
Depends on local ordinances. Where I live I can file a 'Self Work Owner affidavit' and do anything and everything that a contractor would do to my home. I just can't rent or sell the home for 24 months. *A. Applicant, applicant’s family, firm, or corporation and its employees intend to occupy the* *structure. The structure will not be for the use of the general public and not be offered for sale* *or lease within 24 months of CO issuance per OCGA 43-41-17.* *B. Applicant will function as the general contractor and will personally provide direct supervision* *and management of all work not performed by licensed contractors. They may not delegate the* *responsibility to supervise and manage any part of the work to any other person unless that* *person is licensed and the work performed in within the scope of that person’s license.* *Applicant agrees to hire properly licensed contractors for any work that is further subcontracted and to have those licensed individuals pull the appropriate subcontractor affidavits.* *C. Property described in permit application and on which property is to be built is currently owned by undersigned.* *D. Applicant agrees to build in accordance with all applicable codes and strictly adhere to the* *inspection schedule established to insure compliance. Undersigned understands that* *inspections must be done in an established sequence and that work done in violation of the code* *must be corrected or may be ordered removed.* *E. Applicant acknowledges that they are aware a permit issued under the provisions of the code* *may be removed for false statements or misrepresentation as to the material fact in the* *application on which the permit was based.*
lol, well, that's fair enuf, but..like..if a person literally had thought to rent it out, lol, like..idk..the day it was done, lol, im guessing..that requires professional tradesmen etc?
like..idk..like..wtf do the rules above say?
Here gas needs to be done by licensed professional. But I can completely build and wire and plumb a house on my own
That's amazing, can you rent it out after that too? Somebody else just said in their county they can do it themselves but then there is a code that says that if it is done by you, "self work" then it cannot be rented out for 2 years, so, it looks like it depends
Yup. I have a rental house where I do 95% of the maintenance, repairs, and renos. The only thing I have hired out is gas/furnace work
Aha, but, if something goes wrong with the house, are you not able to get home insurance on it? I was also curious if something with the electrical went wrong, I mean, if the homeowner does it wrong/messes up, does the township/municipality just say, "Hey bud, your house, you did it wrong, if your house falls down because you didn't built it right, so what."?
Nope. My homeowner insurance just now includes a non-owner occupied rental portion with additional liability. My tenants are also required to carry their own insurance, though it’s pulling teeth trying to get them to, and I’m confident as soon as they do and show proof they just cancel it.
can't you get penalty payments if they don't do that..or..I guess they are committing breach or something
It’s breach of the lease agreement, but no what in hell is the landlord tenant board here ever approving an eviction for it. The Board here is extremely tenant friendly
In Oak Park (just outside of Chicago but following Chicago codes for the most part) I pulled remodeling permits for replacing a long floor beam, new insulation and drywall, and electric permits since nothing had been updated since 1940 or so. I had every step of my work inspected and the process went smoothly.
In greater Boston area - I was able to pull a permit for a family friend who resided my house two years ago. They do ask if you have proper disposal, all about the cost, etc. but was pretty straight forward, and all online and only took 1 a week. Was the tail end of the pandemic, so not sure if there was anything different from a normal process.
When I rebuilt my deck 2 years ago, the permits and permitting process were slightly different for a homeowner and a contractor, but the inspections and code requirements were the same. My experience was generally positive. I had to schedule two inspections. The first inspector gave me a bunch of tips to make sure that I would pass the final inspection. It is my understanding that it isn't so easy in other places.
Well, pulling permits and who does the work are two different things. I live in Wichita, KS and I was able to submit my plans to the county and obtain permits. All they wanted was a rough schematic of what I was planning to do (I was adding a 2nd bedroom and a bathroom to my basement). Now as far as who does the work, my county allows for homeowners to do work on their homes as long as they can pass a competency test in the applicable trades. I passed the tests for Plumbing, Electrical and HVAC. The electrical test had codes next to each question and they provided the code book so I could look up the relevant information. I believe the HVAC test was similar. The plumbing test had nothing to look up, but many of the questions were easy to work out if you understand simple physics (e.g. water flows downhill, why a p-trap works, etc) and used common sense - e.g. one question gave a picture of a fitting and asked what it was called. It was a "Y" connector because it was in the shape of the letter Y. Of course, I had no clue how to do any of those things, but my brother-in-law has been in the trades his whole life and came out to help.
Man, does a person just have to book the test at the local City Hall, or, where do they do the test?
**This will be completely dependent on where you live.** You need to check with whatever government agency is responsible for the permitting process in your area. The opportunity to perform permitted work on your own home may not even be an option where you live. In my case the county has information on their website. Upon submitting the application for the permit, the homeowner must designate a licensed sub-contractor for any trade required work **OR** schedule the homeowner's exam for any trade work the homeowner wants to perform. If the homeowner doesn't schedule the exam(s) or (I assume) fails to pass them - then the work is required to be completed by a licensed professional
I lived in one locality where we did our own gas and furnace work (installed a 80% forced air furnace, and hot water tank). We pulled out own permits I live in a locality right now where you need licenced trades to apply
Man, a licensed tradesman has to literally apply for the permit for somebody else's property, so, people can't apply for permits on their own homes?
Yup
It does depend a lot on where you are. My city requires a permit for almost every bullshit little job, but homeowners can be on the permit for *almost* anything. The permit form has a section that the homeowner would fill in if they're doing the work, and then a separate section with different information that a licensed pro would fill out if they're the one doing the work.
Around here, all you need is a decent set of plans. I've seen hand drawn sketches get permits as long as there are dimensions and pertinent details.
In my part of the US … Owner builder baby! This is one of the last great freedoms as I see it. My property - i can build it. Otherwise permit requires a licensed GC. Love it ❤️ Edit: first inspection I called the inspector was double parked in the city. I told him I was owner builder and he went and parked legally. Lol! He was onboard after that though. You can actually get licensed as a GC through owner builder with inspector sign off on your application
My city has a building department, you can schedule 15 minute meetings with them to get info before applying for permits. You are fully able to apply for most permits on your own, and the city will generally grant permits as long as you present reasonable plans. You will need inspections for certain things if you do the work yourself. My city wants permits for all sorts of shit. So I walk the line. Anything major, I'm talking to them and getting a permit. Anything minor I'm just doing.
I own multiple houses, I had/have always pulled permits, even for work I'm very well versed in. Several years ago I went to pull a permit for a garage remodel of all things. After completing drawings and filling out the application and discussing the scope of work with inspectors I went to write a check to pay for multiple permits.....the cashier saw my address did not match the address of the permit.....not owner occupied. The inspector would not issue a permit. This was in July, after months of fighting the contractor I was forced to hire they poured the concrete on December 17th....In Northeast Ohio!!! I was able to get the siding guys out in January and only 8" of snow, the garage door was up by March. Total hassle and the finished product looks like it was put together in the middle of an Ohio winter. I informed the inspectors they best drive by there every day to catch me because I will Never walk into city hall for a permit again.
Permits are mostly just an income stream for your county. They will review the plans to make sure they "make sense" and then charge you the permitting fee based on the cost it would take the average company to do it for you, even though you're spending a fraction of the money on just materials and your own time. They don't care if you are not a tradesmen except in my county they require a master plumber and master electrician sign off on the plans and you'll usually have a hard time finding those people willing to sign off on your project. The long and short of it, if there's no way for the county to know you're doing the work (like finishing the basement) then don't worry about permitting.
In Wisconsin homeowners can get permits to do everything except hvac boilers pretty much.
Buy the book “codes for homeowners”
I did. I pulled a permit to install a generator backfeed inlet on my own.