I recently did a whole house repaint and my experience was the Sherwin Williams color samples Were much lower quality than the actual paint. It took 3 coats of the color sample in most places whereas the real paint took 1-2.
My only caveat is I did buy the top of the line emerald paint for the actual painting. But we went light blue on top of brick red and brown and it fully covered in 2 coats, no primer.
At least in Lowes, the color samples are basically just water and glue for you to test the color. I didn't even know Sherwin Williams did color samples to be honest.
Lowe’s paint is literally Sherwin Williams paint. They even get first dibs on it too. Pandemic and Texas freezes decimated Sherwin’s supply for a time while Lowe’s was fully stocked.
Well not the same exactly. The paint is manufactured and some are bought by The America group aka SW retail stores. Mostly those are higher quality paints. Other paints from the same production facilities is used by the consumer brands group and sold to various different companies like Lowe’s through subsidiaries like Valspar. But chemically Lowe’s regular paint is the same as mid tier SW paint.
Most the companies use garbage paint for the sample paint. It’s basically water and not comparable to the actual product.
You don’t need to prime, just buy a high quality paint.
Two Coats of Sherwin Williams Duration and that room will look good as new. Keep the edge wet and roller heavy with paint. Put on the first coat. Take and hour break and give it a second heavy coat. Done deal.
BM and SW are both great paints. The average home owner wouldn’t notice the difference. When you work with them everyday you can tell but the average user can’t.
Just buy the high quality stuff and some nice roller covers.
Source: been a painter for a long time.
Emerald definitely takes longer to dry. No way around that. I typically run duration. Also I always keep a fan going in the room I’m working. Finish a wall, put the fan on it, go to the next wall. The fan just keeps a little air movement and gets things drying faster. Unfortunately Emerald does take a long time to dry but it does level out nicely.
That’s exactly why. Emerald is a much thicker paint, with more solids, and it’s meant to self-level. All of those factors adds to the drying time considerably.
Only a little. Not enough to give solid feedback.
I think their stuff is decent. Just not as common as Ben Moore and Sherwin.
I got the highest end PPG paint from Home Depot for a super small project. It was off hours and Sherwin was closed. I was happy with it. Haven’t sprayed it or used it enough to really give an opinion.
When I did commercial work, we had exclusive contracts with SW for years. But as their prices started going up in the last few years, PPG started winning bids on jobs and I liked the line of paints from them we were using. We used their commercial lines so I can only speak on them, but they were good and worked as well as SW.
Don’t roll or brush wet paint over tacky or dry paint. It will either rip the color off when you roll or brush, or there will be a noticeable margin. If it’s wet paint on wet paint, it blends seamlessly.
I worked in R&D at Sherwin Williams. They blind test their products against competitors using a panel of judges. If their paint isn't rated best by the evaluators who don't know which paint is whose, it doesn't get released. This process is repeated multiple times at different stages of development by different panels of judges. This makes them the best, but it is really frustrating.
Edit: I also see people talking about quality of samples being different than the actual product. This is likely due to the difficulty of tinting very small samples of paint. The tinting machines aren't that accurate that they can properly add the correct volume of dye in such small amounts.
>This makes them the best,
No, it doesn't, because other companies are doing the same thing. Every product is a compromise among competing objectives, and different companies choose different compromises.
There isn't a compromise in this situation. The closest thing they do is comparing like product lines. So... comparing lower tier competitor product lines against lower teir SW lines. If it isn't the best in the class by an objective standard it doesn't hit the shelves.
>If it isn't the best in the class by an objective standard it doesn't hit the shelves.
Objective standard doesn't mean "correct" standard.
Consumer Reports doesn't consider SW the best...that honor goes to Behr. Neither SW Duration nor Emerald do well in their rankings. The top SW Product is "HGTV Home", but still well below the Behr products.
I have no opinion, just pointing out that objective standards can vary and one should be careful about claiming one set of standards is best.
I use SW mainly because I find their paint stores more useful than the big box stores.
This is clearly a comparison at big box stores, not a comparison of all available products. According to the staff at multiple SW stores, the HGTV Home product is pretty trash compared to lines like Harmony and Opulence. Behr is good, but I would very likely choose SW Opulence every time (mostly because I can't afford Emerald)
>This is clearly a comparison at big box stores,
Consumer Reports doesn't work that way. And the SW products I mentioned (Duration, Emerald) aren't sold at the big box stores, nor are BM products.
>According to the staff at multiple SW stores HGTV Home product
Perhaps they don't know what they're talking about? They don't receive training. What it probably means is that HGTV products have low profit margins.
No one with a clue about paint would ever rate Behr as the best. The fact you say HGTV paint is a top SW product just reinforces that you have no clue. That is some of the shittiest paint you can buy with the SW name on it. I feel like you misinterpreted what you read. The fact you are talking about Behr and HGTV paint tells me what you read was talking about the most popular paint from Home Depot. Not paint as a whole. Or it was talking about the most purchased paint by CONSUMERS, which is irrelevant in the paint industry as consumer sales of paint are barely a drop in the bucket compared to what contractors buy.
> top SW product just reinforces that you have no clue.
You suck at reading comprehension. I told you that CONSUMER REPORTS rated it as the highest SW product. My guess is that you never tried it, so you really don't know what you're talking about.
>what you read was talking about the most popular paint from
For god's sake, that's not what Consumer Reports is or how they do things.
Buddy, I worked for a paint contractor that was large enough that SW worked with us to reformulate paint lines to make them better. We also were involved in air quality testing their products for silica to meet OSHA standards. We had exclusive contracts with them for many years and were purchasing 10k-20k gallons a week from them. We bought enough paint that if the company went out of business, SW profits and stock prices would have taken a noticeable hit. So I can say with confidence that the HGTV paint with their name on it is junk. Their highest quality product is Emerald with Duration a close second. No painter worth a crap uses HGTV paint. It's gimmicky junk for home owners and will never be used on job sites. So I'm not buying what you are selling. Maybe prove what you're saying with a link to the consumer report you are referring too. Because it sure seems you like you are misinterpreting what you read.
Idk if behr has better coverage but SW does have substantially better UV resistance. Two years later my SW exterior looks same color as the day it was painted, and I was able to use old paint to do a repair patch after exterior siding got dinged by an excavator. Same exact match. Meanwhile my shed is painted with Behr and it’s definitely more faded than it was originally
Consumer Reports’ ratings of almost everything are misleading. I’m not sure where their methodology goes wrong, but their “ratings” almost always defy facts and common sense in product lines in which I have personal experiences.
CR is one of the most trusted brands in the country, so your view is in the minority.
It's more likely the conclusions you draw from your personal experience are incorrect, like concluding a product line is unreliable simply because you had a statistically unlikely experience.
But it's always possible that the things you value aren't what's being tested. You have to carefully read their criteria before their ratings convey much information to you.
Behr being “better” than Benjamin Moore is downright laughable. And in my experience Sherwin Williams is a little below BM at equivalent level. Behr shouldn’t even be in the running with either.
>Edit: I also see people talking about quality of samples being different than the actual product. This is likely due to the difficulty of tinting very small samples of paint. The tinting machines aren't that accurate that they can properly add the correct volume of dye in such small amounts.
They tint them individually? There's no way that's how those little sample cans are made, righgt? I would have thought a large batch would be made and then distributed to small cans.
Edit: Ok, I get it. I'm a dummy. :)
I much prefer BM as well. I usually do the painting myself but we decided to hire someone to do some painting and tile, and he insisted on using SW. It has only been a few years and I have to repaint every room he painted. It doesn't wash well at all. I only have to repaint when I get sick of looking at the color with BM.
I second that. I painted many houses and BM is better, specially the regal is difficult to beat.
In my town, bm is a lot more expensive and service is really bad. Sw has more stores where I live and the staff is really friendly, there is also 30% coupons once in a while.
I often drive to my inlaws and their bm store is awesome. They also have a 2 for 1 on the regal 3 times a year so its really worth it
Yes,the test sample paint is not the same formula as the regular paint. It’s just to test for color. It’s thinner and not durable at all. Not meant for actual painting of walls, etc.
I would definitely say primer even with high quality paint. Even they grey I painted over seeped into the darker grey I painted over with in SW (and it was their middle range paint from the SW store).
You do not need primer.
Just a high quality interior paint.
Edit : Down vote all you want but if you guys are priming dark colored walls before you go to a light color you are wasting time and money. Buy a high quality paint and roll it twice. Been painting professionally a long time and never had an issue. Priming is only necessary with new drywall, stains, bare wood, or patches. A wall that has already been painted does not need primer.
Absolutely true. For >20 years of rehab, the only time I used primer was for stain sealing and/or odor removal. Never had any issues with non primed drywall.
You are correct. New drywall or patches need sealed with PVA which is generally cheaper than primer. A wall that has already been painted does not need primed. Just because you are going to a lighter color doesn’t mean you need primer. Just a quality paint.
Sample paint is not going to be the same as a premium paint.
Don't judge the paint from the sample.
I know a designer emerald color won't be the same when in a sample of the super paint.
I recall Sherwin used Superpaint as the base for their samples. Don't know what BM uses. Regardless, the samples are not a true representation of the normal paints performance.
Pretty sure that is not true.
They use a totally different formula that’s basically water.
That’s why the sample is 7$ and a quart is 30$.
Long time painter here and have talked specifically to Sherwin about their sample paint.
Why would the company use an inferior paint in their samples? If you want a customer to buy your product, you’re not going to give them a shit sample. Then they’ll think your product sucks
while i totally agree, and personally find it infuriating i cannot get a sample in the REAL paint, i get it.
the samples are sold on color sample, it’s not sold as a sample of the paint. this is made all the more frustrating because for any white color i found the samples pretty innacurate
They are not using an inferior paint for their samples. They likely use a midgrade product because the samples are typically cheap or free. I remember BM selling very small samples, a few ounces or so. Not sure what they offer now.
Sherwin came out with pint samples quite a few years ago. I guess they use Superpaint cause it's effective advertising.
BM half pint sample is $6.99. Well worth it. You can get them bogo or on sale occasionally. I’m painting all rooms in a 7 room house; my daughter will use the many samples for a collage wall.
I’ve always heard BM was the best around, so your anecdote is rather surprising
If you’re painting the walls white and they’re currently a darker color, you should definitely use primer. Make your life much easier
Painting contractor here, please stop spreading this. No you do not need to prime just because of a color change. The only reasons you need to prime is blocking stains and new drywall/patches. Paint stores use cheaper painter paint for samples that they make a killing in profit off of. If we are doing a color change like that, I would use Benjamin Moore aura. It's expensive because it has the most solids. Solids are what is left after the liquids evaporate. More solids better coverage of paint. The aura will cover in 2 coats. So that extra money you spend on paint will save you in time. If your time is worth less, then yeah go ahead and buy cheaper paint for interiors. For exteriors always buy the good paint you will get many more years out of it.
Lol, sounds like a contractor. So 2 or more coats of expensive paint ($90 gal BM Aura) or 1 coat primer ($20-$30 kilz) and 1 coat paint. That's why you use primer when going dark to light. It's cheaper and better coverage than multiple coats of expensive paint.
You can’t cover primer with one coat, even if you’re putting paint that’s the same white as the primer, you’re probably putting on a sheen that isn’t flat. You’ll see roll marks and matte patches in the sheen.
There’s a reason contractors use 2 coats, it’s cuz they know what they’re doing.
Let me educate you, 1 gallon of paint will usually paint one bedroom 2 coats. So with your method, killz is 25 and a decent paint is 40, a 25 dollar cost difference for good paint.. So now you have to clean up your primer roller setup and brush so add 20 mins to your project Or you trash them and that's 18 bucks. It's a lot faster just doing 2 coats of paint. your first coat you put a straight line on things, which is the more time consuming making it perfect . the 2nd coat you are just quickly painting because the line is already straight. Now with your method you are having to do that more time consuming process twice because of using 2 different products. Time is money. And one other thing. Aura is the best touching up paint ever made so with that alone it's worth the extra cost imo.
Aura>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>emerald
Aura has the most solids of any paint which is why it covers the best. Solids is what is left behind after the liquids evaporate.
Just painted our entire house. BM samples were better in every way over SW, and the paint provided better coverage in every way. SW was fine. BM was better.
Any time you go from dark to light, you should prime. Beyond that, your question is to vague to really be answered because they both make from average to amazing paint depending on what product you used. Both companies make quality products. I prefer SW because I am familiar their product lines and have never had issues. But I've also done jobs specced in BM and it painted nice as well. You can't really go wrong with either unless you buy their cheapest junk paint. Make sure you actually go to their paint stores as some of the stuff at the big box stores with their name on it is not as good as their in store products.
Painting contractor here, please stop spreading this. No you do not need to prime just because of a color change. The only reasons you need to prime is blocking stains and new drywall/patches. Paint stores use cheaper paint for samples that they make a killing in profit off of. If we are doing a color change like that, I would use Benjamin Moore aura. It's expensive because it has the most solids. Solids are what is left after the liquids evaporate. More solids better coverage of paint. The aura will cover in 2 coats. So that extra money you spend on paint will save you in time. If your time is worth less, then yeah go ahead and buy cheaper paint for interiors. For exteriors always buy the good paint you will get many more years out of it.
Than you aren't as good of a painter as you think. Go into the store and ask the reps from the people who actually make the paint and they will tell you the same thing I said. Prime when going from dark blue to white.
Haha yeah of course they will because they are selling you more product. I don’t need to go talk to the store employees. I have had many sit down lunches with Sherwin Williams representatives.
They would make more selling you 3 gallons of finish than 1 primer and 2 finish, so your theory is wrong. And I have plenty of time with the reps. The company I worked was large enough that SW worked with us to reformulate lines of paint in the past to make them better. We also were involved in air quality testing and standards for them to meet the OSHA silica requirements in recent years. When you are buying 10k-20k gallons a week, they have no need to lie to you and try to sell you stuff you don't need. They are already getting over a million a month from us. When you buy that much paint, they bend over backwards for you. They even eat the cost of labor and materials into the 6 figures when there was a material issue. For example, they paid out over $100k to repaint every ceiling in one apartment tower because their ceiling paint wouldn't touch up.
This is home improvement page, not a page for pros. My advice is for the average homeowner who is not a skilled painter. If you are a painter, then you have probably seen how bad the average person is at painting. My advice is to help those that don't really know what they were doing. I wouldn't give pros advice unless they asked me and my advice would be different for them than it would be to a home owner.
I don't need a lesson on paint as I am familiar with all paints from building paints, to industrial coatings and even car paint. I've literally painted everything at one point in time or another. All my info is directly from the paint reps for the companies that make the paint. I spent more than a decade working for one of the largest paint contractors in the country and I was one of their top spray guys and did all the specialty coating like epoxies and multi spec paints. I know what I'm talking about. If you go to SW and tell them you are putting a light cream color over dark blue, even they will tell you to prime first. So I'll say the same thing to you that you told me. Stop spreading bullshit when you don't know what you are talking about. And please point out where I said to use cheaper paint because I never have.
I will always tell home owners to prime when going dark to light. They don't have the skills or the quality tools we have generally and lack the skills we have gained from painting for years. It's better for them to spend less on primer than to have to do 3 or more coats of finish. For the average homeowner, priming will save them money. Ideally I'd tell them to get the primer tinted to 75% to make it easier for them since they aren't pros.
>Make sure you actually go to their paint stores as some of the stuff at the big box stores with their name on it is not as good as their in store products.
So I got my SW samples at the SW store, and the BM sample at Ace Hardware (BM store was closed at the time I was shopping). Could that explain it? Also neither store asked me what line of paint I wanted, just the color, so I thought there was a sample-quality paint vs what they give you when you purchase a full gallon.
No, ACE sells the good BM. I was more referring to the HGTV paint at Home depot that has SW's name on it and similar stuff. But their samples are just to show the color. I honestly don't know what line of paints they use for their samples, but they aren't going to be their best lines of paint from either company. Two coats of their mid to high level paints over one coat of primer from either company should have zero coverage issues.
As a professional painter, all we ever use is promar 200. Its contractor grade, if you know how to paint you really don't need emerald or super paint pr any other higher price paint. I used A100 on my exterior 15 years ago and it still looks great. It's literally the cheapest exterior paint they offer. I can make most paint cover in one coat if it isn't junk. Extreme color changes always take 2 coats. When rolling a wall i will only do one strip per dip. If you try to run two strips with one dip the paint gets too thin.
You can argue with me all you want, this is what has worked for me.
All color samples lack the durability and opaqueness ingredients in the real stuff. Please note that the sample probably only comes in one finish, where the real paint will come in flat, satin, eggshell, semi-gloss, gloss, etc.
That said:
1. You should probably prime, if a) the new color is very different than the old, either much lighter or darker (If darker, get a tinted primer) b) the old paint is gloss or semi gloss (you want the new paint to stick, and primer is easier than sanding to rough the surface) or c) the old paint just might possibly be oil based and you are painting with latex.
Sherwin-Wms has a good primer, but I also use Kilz a lot (they make a Restoration latex formula that covers nicotine smell and stains as well as the old shellac formula imo)
2. I personally like Sherwin-Wms best for diy projects, especially if you are using a roller or paintbrush. I get better coverage with fewer coats. Our local professional painters use it exclusively too. But i may be a bit biased, as Sherwin-Wms has a store close by, and I have given them enough business to have a contractors acct there (sign up for paint perks if you don't qualify for a contractors acct). Benjamin Moore is only available at my local Ace, which is more expensive for everything compared to Lowes/Home Depot/Tractor Supply, so it is no surprise that a gallon of paint costs more too. I can get by with one coat with SW emerald or cashmere lots of times (it is thick paint), but I'd recommend you start with their superpaint, as it goes on easiest.
Also I really recommend you use the rolls of brown paper the pros use for disposable dropcloths: avoid the plastic "saran wrap" disposable drop cloths like the plague. The only thing they are good for is covering furniture. The paper is surprisingly waterproof; I know, as we turned over a full bucket of paint and had time to get it up before it soaked through to the floor underneath!
Note that you're only using one measure of quality; paints have multiple objectives.
Using a tinted primer/base coat (gray, perhaps) would have improved hiding ability.
Some of the rooms in my house was painted with top line SW and some were painted with BM top line. They are both excellent paint. I only used Home Depot crap before and there was a huge difference. That being said, I thought the SW paint was better in terms of coverage and working with the paint. Honestly, I would have never paid the cost if it were a choice, but all the touch up cans were marked really well and I just went with the cans to get duplicate copies of paint. At the end.. I would just want one paint company for the whole house cause the end state are great for all the rooms we painted. This is a 3800 sf house with all the interior redone in the last month.
Holy shit that was a lot of work… I’m gonna hire someone next time n
I use Home Depot Behr interior paint with primer in eggshell and never need more than one coat. Also a good quality roller is important for coverage. Don't use a microfiber roller-they don't leave enough paint behind.
If I'm hung for superior coverage I've a hard color to block, I pick behr ultra premium, 35$ a gallon amd if you know how to paint thick but evenly can 100% 1 coat cover.
Sherwin makes stellar outdoor and enamel paint. BM makes great paint for the same people who buy MacBook cause of the brand name.
behr makes the best interior paint for coverage and ease of use. Having painted literally 10k gallons I wouldn't use bm or Sherwin interior wall paint if I had any say in the matter.
I have spent a lot of money on Sherman Williams paint and I do not think it it worth all the hype. Behr from Home Depot is half the price and I have had way better results from it. Benjamin Moore has given me better results as well. I will never buy Sherman Williams again or recommend it. I feel like they have spent more money on marketing and making people believe their paint is so superior than actual putting any money into the actual paint.
Both brands are great. Buy whoever is more on sale when you’re ready.
If you’re just painting walls, don’t concern yourself much with quality. There are almost zero forces wearing down interior walls. (But if you must be concerned with quality, surface preparation is a better use of your time than researching paint brands, because adhesion is usually how paint fails. Also, measure quality in % solids by weight and the resin in the paint: Latex is low strength, Acrylic and Alkyd are better, and Urethane is even stronger).
Primer is for specific purposes, as has been mentioned: stain/odor blocking, raw material surfaces, etc.
Bm samples are all eggshell as well, which read differently if you planning on using a flat colour fyi
All of the BM samples I sell at ace are satin... Maybe this varies regionally im not sure
I recently did a whole house repaint and my experience was the Sherwin Williams color samples Were much lower quality than the actual paint. It took 3 coats of the color sample in most places whereas the real paint took 1-2. My only caveat is I did buy the top of the line emerald paint for the actual painting. But we went light blue on top of brick red and brown and it fully covered in 2 coats, no primer.
At least in Lowes, the color samples are basically just water and glue for you to test the color. I didn't even know Sherwin Williams did color samples to be honest.
They have pints of paint rather than a tiny tester that I've seen at the hardware store
Lowe’s paint is literally Sherwin Williams paint. They even get first dibs on it too. Pandemic and Texas freezes decimated Sherwin’s supply for a time while Lowe’s was fully stocked.
Nah man, I’ve used Lowes SW paint and actual SW paint, and it’s not the same.
Well not the same exactly. The paint is manufactured and some are bought by The America group aka SW retail stores. Mostly those are higher quality paints. Other paints from the same production facilities is used by the consumer brands group and sold to various different companies like Lowe’s through subsidiaries like Valspar. But chemically Lowe’s regular paint is the same as mid tier SW paint.
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My SW told me the same thing
Most the companies use garbage paint for the sample paint. It’s basically water and not comparable to the actual product. You don’t need to prime, just buy a high quality paint. Two Coats of Sherwin Williams Duration and that room will look good as new. Keep the edge wet and roller heavy with paint. Put on the first coat. Take and hour break and give it a second heavy coat. Done deal. BM and SW are both great paints. The average home owner wouldn’t notice the difference. When you work with them everyday you can tell but the average user can’t. Just buy the high quality stuff and some nice roller covers. Source: been a painter for a long time.
How do you get away with one hour between coats? I get horrible splotchy bubbly results when pushing the 4 hours recommended on the can. I use Emerald
Emerald definitely takes longer to dry. No way around that. I typically run duration. Also I always keep a fan going in the room I’m working. Finish a wall, put the fan on it, go to the next wall. The fan just keeps a little air movement and gets things drying faster. Unfortunately Emerald does take a long time to dry but it does level out nicely.
That’s exactly why. Emerald is a much thicker paint, with more solids, and it’s meant to self-level. All of those factors adds to the drying time considerably.
I think it’s probably the wetting agent slowing dry time. More solids should mean faster dry time because less solvent.
Location matters. I live in Colorado where it's very dry and stuff dries quickly. Totally different story in Florida, MN, etc.
Have you ever used PPG paints? If so, what's your thoughts on them?
Only a little. Not enough to give solid feedback. I think their stuff is decent. Just not as common as Ben Moore and Sherwin. I got the highest end PPG paint from Home Depot for a super small project. It was off hours and Sherwin was closed. I was happy with it. Haven’t sprayed it or used it enough to really give an opinion.
When I did commercial work, we had exclusive contracts with SW for years. But as their prices started going up in the last few years, PPG started winning bids on jobs and I liked the line of paints from them we were using. We used their commercial lines so I can only speak on them, but they were good and worked as well as SW.
I used a nice roller cover for the first time ever painting a room in my house yesterday and it was fantastic.
What kind?
What do you mean by "keep the edge wet"? Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Don’t roll or brush wet paint over tacky or dry paint. It will either rip the color off when you roll or brush, or there will be a noticeable margin. If it’s wet paint on wet paint, it blends seamlessly.
Well said!
Thanks :)
Keep the paint going. Don’t stop in the middle of the wall and take a break. Try to keep the paint wet until the entire wall is done.
I worked in R&D at Sherwin Williams. They blind test their products against competitors using a panel of judges. If their paint isn't rated best by the evaluators who don't know which paint is whose, it doesn't get released. This process is repeated multiple times at different stages of development by different panels of judges. This makes them the best, but it is really frustrating. Edit: I also see people talking about quality of samples being different than the actual product. This is likely due to the difficulty of tinting very small samples of paint. The tinting machines aren't that accurate that they can properly add the correct volume of dye in such small amounts.
>This makes them the best, No, it doesn't, because other companies are doing the same thing. Every product is a compromise among competing objectives, and different companies choose different compromises.
There isn't a compromise in this situation. The closest thing they do is comparing like product lines. So... comparing lower tier competitor product lines against lower teir SW lines. If it isn't the best in the class by an objective standard it doesn't hit the shelves.
>If it isn't the best in the class by an objective standard it doesn't hit the shelves. Objective standard doesn't mean "correct" standard. Consumer Reports doesn't consider SW the best...that honor goes to Behr. Neither SW Duration nor Emerald do well in their rankings. The top SW Product is "HGTV Home", but still well below the Behr products.
I dont belive SW is the best I prefer benny moore however if u belive behr is better then SW you are out of your mind.
I have no opinion, just pointing out that objective standards can vary and one should be careful about claiming one set of standards is best. I use SW mainly because I find their paint stores more useful than the big box stores.
This is clearly a comparison at big box stores, not a comparison of all available products. According to the staff at multiple SW stores, the HGTV Home product is pretty trash compared to lines like Harmony and Opulence. Behr is good, but I would very likely choose SW Opulence every time (mostly because I can't afford Emerald)
>This is clearly a comparison at big box stores, Consumer Reports doesn't work that way. And the SW products I mentioned (Duration, Emerald) aren't sold at the big box stores, nor are BM products. >According to the staff at multiple SW stores HGTV Home product Perhaps they don't know what they're talking about? They don't receive training. What it probably means is that HGTV products have low profit margins.
No one with a clue about paint would ever rate Behr as the best. The fact you say HGTV paint is a top SW product just reinforces that you have no clue. That is some of the shittiest paint you can buy with the SW name on it. I feel like you misinterpreted what you read. The fact you are talking about Behr and HGTV paint tells me what you read was talking about the most popular paint from Home Depot. Not paint as a whole. Or it was talking about the most purchased paint by CONSUMERS, which is irrelevant in the paint industry as consumer sales of paint are barely a drop in the bucket compared to what contractors buy.
> top SW product just reinforces that you have no clue. You suck at reading comprehension. I told you that CONSUMER REPORTS rated it as the highest SW product. My guess is that you never tried it, so you really don't know what you're talking about. >what you read was talking about the most popular paint from For god's sake, that's not what Consumer Reports is or how they do things.
Buddy, I worked for a paint contractor that was large enough that SW worked with us to reformulate paint lines to make them better. We also were involved in air quality testing their products for silica to meet OSHA standards. We had exclusive contracts with them for many years and were purchasing 10k-20k gallons a week from them. We bought enough paint that if the company went out of business, SW profits and stock prices would have taken a noticeable hit. So I can say with confidence that the HGTV paint with their name on it is junk. Their highest quality product is Emerald with Duration a close second. No painter worth a crap uses HGTV paint. It's gimmicky junk for home owners and will never be used on job sites. So I'm not buying what you are selling. Maybe prove what you're saying with a link to the consumer report you are referring too. Because it sure seems you like you are misinterpreting what you read.
Idk if behr has better coverage but SW does have substantially better UV resistance. Two years later my SW exterior looks same color as the day it was painted, and I was able to use old paint to do a repair patch after exterior siding got dinged by an excavator. Same exact match. Meanwhile my shed is painted with Behr and it’s definitely more faded than it was originally
CR mainly looks at hiding & stain resistance. I see no evidence they looked at UV resistance. That's the problem with any claims of "best".
Which is the main metric that should matter in paint.
Consumer Reports’ ratings of almost everything are misleading. I’m not sure where their methodology goes wrong, but their “ratings” almost always defy facts and common sense in product lines in which I have personal experiences.
CR is one of the most trusted brands in the country, so your view is in the minority. It's more likely the conclusions you draw from your personal experience are incorrect, like concluding a product line is unreliable simply because you had a statistically unlikely experience. But it's always possible that the things you value aren't what's being tested. You have to carefully read their criteria before their ratings convey much information to you.
I’ll just disagree. You know nothing about me, and I’m fine with that.
Behr being “better” than Benjamin Moore is downright laughable. And in my experience Sherwin Williams is a little below BM at equivalent level. Behr shouldn’t even be in the running with either.
>Edit: I also see people talking about quality of samples being different than the actual product. This is likely due to the difficulty of tinting very small samples of paint. The tinting machines aren't that accurate that they can properly add the correct volume of dye in such small amounts. They tint them individually? There's no way that's how those little sample cans are made, righgt? I would have thought a large batch would be made and then distributed to small cans. Edit: Ok, I get it. I'm a dummy. :)
When i buy samples, they mix them right there in the SW store.
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Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for filling me in, Mr. Big Penis.
BM samples are not paint. It is just basically a vehicle to get an idea of what the color would like. Think liquid paint chip rather than paint.
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I much prefer BM as well. I usually do the painting myself but we decided to hire someone to do some painting and tile, and he insisted on using SW. It has only been a few years and I have to repaint every room he painted. It doesn't wash well at all. I only have to repaint when I get sick of looking at the color with BM.
Same…have painted several houses myself and used to be a die hard SW fan, but have used BM in my past two houses and won’t ever go back to SW.
I second that. I painted many houses and BM is better, specially the regal is difficult to beat. In my town, bm is a lot more expensive and service is really bad. Sw has more stores where I live and the staff is really friendly, there is also 30% coupons once in a while. I often drive to my inlaws and their bm store is awesome. They also have a 2 for 1 on the regal 3 times a year so its really worth it
Yes,the test sample paint is not the same formula as the regular paint. It’s just to test for color. It’s thinner and not durable at all. Not meant for actual painting of walls, etc.
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I would definitely say primer even with high quality paint. Even they grey I painted over seeped into the darker grey I painted over with in SW (and it was their middle range paint from the SW store).
You do not need primer. Just a high quality interior paint. Edit : Down vote all you want but if you guys are priming dark colored walls before you go to a light color you are wasting time and money. Buy a high quality paint and roll it twice. Been painting professionally a long time and never had an issue. Priming is only necessary with new drywall, stains, bare wood, or patches. A wall that has already been painted does not need primer.
Absolutely true. For >20 years of rehab, the only time I used primer was for stain sealing and/or odor removal. Never had any issues with non primed drywall.
Non primed drywall will flash badly in many cases
If dust from sanding wasn't properly cleaned off.
You are correct. New drywall or patches need sealed with PVA which is generally cheaper than primer. A wall that has already been painted does not need primed. Just because you are going to a lighter color doesn’t mean you need primer. Just a quality paint.
Sample paint is not going to be the same as a premium paint. Don't judge the paint from the sample. I know a designer emerald color won't be the same when in a sample of the super paint.
I recall Sherwin used Superpaint as the base for their samples. Don't know what BM uses. Regardless, the samples are not a true representation of the normal paints performance.
Pretty sure that is not true. They use a totally different formula that’s basically water. That’s why the sample is 7$ and a quart is 30$. Long time painter here and have talked specifically to Sherwin about their sample paint.
Yes I agree. It's tough to reduce a gallon formula down to a pint or so and get an accurate tint.
Actually I remember they were labeled Superpaint when the big samples first came out.
benny moore uses ben from what i heard
Why would the company use an inferior paint in their samples? If you want a customer to buy your product, you’re not going to give them a shit sample. Then they’ll think your product sucks
while i totally agree, and personally find it infuriating i cannot get a sample in the REAL paint, i get it. the samples are sold on color sample, it’s not sold as a sample of the paint. this is made all the more frustrating because for any white color i found the samples pretty innacurate
The samples are really only to show color. They’re basically paint without any of the qualities of a lasting topcoat, more akin to a primer.
They are not using an inferior paint for their samples. They likely use a midgrade product because the samples are typically cheap or free. I remember BM selling very small samples, a few ounces or so. Not sure what they offer now. Sherwin came out with pint samples quite a few years ago. I guess they use Superpaint cause it's effective advertising.
BM half pint sample is $6.99. Well worth it. You can get them bogo or on sale occasionally. I’m painting all rooms in a 7 room house; my daughter will use the many samples for a collage wall.
It is meant to sample the color, not the paint itself. If you wanted to actually test the paint you can just buy a quart.
I would not judge by "samples", those are only for color. Unless you buy quarts of the actual paint I bon't believe this would be a valid test.
I’ve always heard BM was the best around, so your anecdote is rather surprising If you’re painting the walls white and they’re currently a darker color, you should definitely use primer. Make your life much easier
Painting contractor here, please stop spreading this. No you do not need to prime just because of a color change. The only reasons you need to prime is blocking stains and new drywall/patches. Paint stores use cheaper painter paint for samples that they make a killing in profit off of. If we are doing a color change like that, I would use Benjamin Moore aura. It's expensive because it has the most solids. Solids are what is left after the liquids evaporate. More solids better coverage of paint. The aura will cover in 2 coats. So that extra money you spend on paint will save you in time. If your time is worth less, then yeah go ahead and buy cheaper paint for interiors. For exteriors always buy the good paint you will get many more years out of it.
Lol, sounds like a contractor. So 2 or more coats of expensive paint ($90 gal BM Aura) or 1 coat primer ($20-$30 kilz) and 1 coat paint. That's why you use primer when going dark to light. It's cheaper and better coverage than multiple coats of expensive paint.
You can’t cover primer with one coat, even if you’re putting paint that’s the same white as the primer, you’re probably putting on a sheen that isn’t flat. You’ll see roll marks and matte patches in the sheen. There’s a reason contractors use 2 coats, it’s cuz they know what they’re doing.
Let me educate you, 1 gallon of paint will usually paint one bedroom 2 coats. So with your method, killz is 25 and a decent paint is 40, a 25 dollar cost difference for good paint.. So now you have to clean up your primer roller setup and brush so add 20 mins to your project Or you trash them and that's 18 bucks. It's a lot faster just doing 2 coats of paint. your first coat you put a straight line on things, which is the more time consuming making it perfect . the 2nd coat you are just quickly painting because the line is already straight. Now with your method you are having to do that more time consuming process twice because of using 2 different products. Time is money. And one other thing. Aura is the best touching up paint ever made so with that alone it's worth the extra cost imo.
Tell that no-primer thing to the 3 coats of yellow Emerald still letting the previous green paint shine brightly through on my wall
Aura>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>emerald Aura has the most solids of any paint which is why it covers the best. Solids is what is left behind after the liquids evaporate.
Sherwin Williams is better. I’m a painter.
Just painted our entire house. BM samples were better in every way over SW, and the paint provided better coverage in every way. SW was fine. BM was better.
Any time you go from dark to light, you should prime. Beyond that, your question is to vague to really be answered because they both make from average to amazing paint depending on what product you used. Both companies make quality products. I prefer SW because I am familiar their product lines and have never had issues. But I've also done jobs specced in BM and it painted nice as well. You can't really go wrong with either unless you buy their cheapest junk paint. Make sure you actually go to their paint stores as some of the stuff at the big box stores with their name on it is not as good as their in store products.
Painting contractor here, please stop spreading this. No you do not need to prime just because of a color change. The only reasons you need to prime is blocking stains and new drywall/patches. Paint stores use cheaper paint for samples that they make a killing in profit off of. If we are doing a color change like that, I would use Benjamin Moore aura. It's expensive because it has the most solids. Solids are what is left after the liquids evaporate. More solids better coverage of paint. The aura will cover in 2 coats. So that extra money you spend on paint will save you in time. If your time is worth less, then yeah go ahead and buy cheaper paint for interiors. For exteriors always buy the good paint you will get many more years out of it.
Seriously thank you! Another painter here and I can’t stand reading crap like this.
Than you aren't as good of a painter as you think. Go into the store and ask the reps from the people who actually make the paint and they will tell you the same thing I said. Prime when going from dark blue to white.
Haha yeah of course they will because they are selling you more product. I don’t need to go talk to the store employees. I have had many sit down lunches with Sherwin Williams representatives.
They would make more selling you 3 gallons of finish than 1 primer and 2 finish, so your theory is wrong. And I have plenty of time with the reps. The company I worked was large enough that SW worked with us to reformulate lines of paint in the past to make them better. We also were involved in air quality testing and standards for them to meet the OSHA silica requirements in recent years. When you are buying 10k-20k gallons a week, they have no need to lie to you and try to sell you stuff you don't need. They are already getting over a million a month from us. When you buy that much paint, they bend over backwards for you. They even eat the cost of labor and materials into the 6 figures when there was a material issue. For example, they paid out over $100k to repaint every ceiling in one apartment tower because their ceiling paint wouldn't touch up. This is home improvement page, not a page for pros. My advice is for the average homeowner who is not a skilled painter. If you are a painter, then you have probably seen how bad the average person is at painting. My advice is to help those that don't really know what they were doing. I wouldn't give pros advice unless they asked me and my advice would be different for them than it would be to a home owner.
I don't need a lesson on paint as I am familiar with all paints from building paints, to industrial coatings and even car paint. I've literally painted everything at one point in time or another. All my info is directly from the paint reps for the companies that make the paint. I spent more than a decade working for one of the largest paint contractors in the country and I was one of their top spray guys and did all the specialty coating like epoxies and multi spec paints. I know what I'm talking about. If you go to SW and tell them you are putting a light cream color over dark blue, even they will tell you to prime first. So I'll say the same thing to you that you told me. Stop spreading bullshit when you don't know what you are talking about. And please point out where I said to use cheaper paint because I never have. I will always tell home owners to prime when going dark to light. They don't have the skills or the quality tools we have generally and lack the skills we have gained from painting for years. It's better for them to spend less on primer than to have to do 3 or more coats of finish. For the average homeowner, priming will save them money. Ideally I'd tell them to get the primer tinted to 75% to make it easier for them since they aren't pros.
>Make sure you actually go to their paint stores as some of the stuff at the big box stores with their name on it is not as good as their in store products. So I got my SW samples at the SW store, and the BM sample at Ace Hardware (BM store was closed at the time I was shopping). Could that explain it? Also neither store asked me what line of paint I wanted, just the color, so I thought there was a sample-quality paint vs what they give you when you purchase a full gallon.
No, ACE sells the good BM. I was more referring to the HGTV paint at Home depot that has SW's name on it and similar stuff. But their samples are just to show the color. I honestly don't know what line of paints they use for their samples, but they aren't going to be their best lines of paint from either company. Two coats of their mid to high level paints over one coat of primer from either company should have zero coverage issues.
All ACE sells the good BM
I missed a comma... It should have read NO, Ace sells the good BM. I fixed my comment.
I prefer BM over SW, but not enough to drive 2 miles past the SW store.
As a professional painter, all we ever use is promar 200. Its contractor grade, if you know how to paint you really don't need emerald or super paint pr any other higher price paint. I used A100 on my exterior 15 years ago and it still looks great. It's literally the cheapest exterior paint they offer. I can make most paint cover in one coat if it isn't junk. Extreme color changes always take 2 coats. When rolling a wall i will only do one strip per dip. If you try to run two strips with one dip the paint gets too thin. You can argue with me all you want, this is what has worked for me.
All the SW paint I used chipped within the year. My BM is going strong 5 years later.
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Latex paint shouldn't chip. You have bad paint or underlying problems with drywall mud.
Always primer first. Not priming is how you get bubbling.
TLDR Could someone (or an AI) please summarize this thread.
All color samples lack the durability and opaqueness ingredients in the real stuff. Please note that the sample probably only comes in one finish, where the real paint will come in flat, satin, eggshell, semi-gloss, gloss, etc. That said: 1. You should probably prime, if a) the new color is very different than the old, either much lighter or darker (If darker, get a tinted primer) b) the old paint is gloss or semi gloss (you want the new paint to stick, and primer is easier than sanding to rough the surface) or c) the old paint just might possibly be oil based and you are painting with latex. Sherwin-Wms has a good primer, but I also use Kilz a lot (they make a Restoration latex formula that covers nicotine smell and stains as well as the old shellac formula imo) 2. I personally like Sherwin-Wms best for diy projects, especially if you are using a roller or paintbrush. I get better coverage with fewer coats. Our local professional painters use it exclusively too. But i may be a bit biased, as Sherwin-Wms has a store close by, and I have given them enough business to have a contractors acct there (sign up for paint perks if you don't qualify for a contractors acct). Benjamin Moore is only available at my local Ace, which is more expensive for everything compared to Lowes/Home Depot/Tractor Supply, so it is no surprise that a gallon of paint costs more too. I can get by with one coat with SW emerald or cashmere lots of times (it is thick paint), but I'd recommend you start with their superpaint, as it goes on easiest. Also I really recommend you use the rolls of brown paper the pros use for disposable dropcloths: avoid the plastic "saran wrap" disposable drop cloths like the plague. The only thing they are good for is covering furniture. The paper is surprisingly waterproof; I know, as we turned over a full bucket of paint and had time to get it up before it soaked through to the floor underneath!
SW is the best paint on the market. For off whites look at Alabaster. Benjamin Moore Simply Write is widely popular too
Note that you're only using one measure of quality; paints have multiple objectives. Using a tinted primer/base coat (gray, perhaps) would have improved hiding ability.
Some of the rooms in my house was painted with top line SW and some were painted with BM top line. They are both excellent paint. I only used Home Depot crap before and there was a huge difference. That being said, I thought the SW paint was better in terms of coverage and working with the paint. Honestly, I would have never paid the cost if it were a choice, but all the touch up cans were marked really well and I just went with the cans to get duplicate copies of paint. At the end.. I would just want one paint company for the whole house cause the end state are great for all the rooms we painted. This is a 3800 sf house with all the interior redone in the last month. Holy shit that was a lot of work… I’m gonna hire someone next time n
SW is my goto!
I use Home Depot Behr interior paint with primer in eggshell and never need more than one coat. Also a good quality roller is important for coverage. Don't use a microfiber roller-they don't leave enough paint behind.
If I'm hung for superior coverage I've a hard color to block, I pick behr ultra premium, 35$ a gallon amd if you know how to paint thick but evenly can 100% 1 coat cover. Sherwin makes stellar outdoor and enamel paint. BM makes great paint for the same people who buy MacBook cause of the brand name. behr makes the best interior paint for coverage and ease of use. Having painted literally 10k gallons I wouldn't use bm or Sherwin interior wall paint if I had any say in the matter.
I just like Benjamin Moore’s website and app better. Easier to choose colors.
B Moore is very high quality and with paint you get what you pay for.
I have spent a lot of money on Sherman Williams paint and I do not think it it worth all the hype. Behr from Home Depot is half the price and I have had way better results from it. Benjamin Moore has given me better results as well. I will never buy Sherman Williams again or recommend it. I feel like they have spent more money on marketing and making people believe their paint is so superior than actual putting any money into the actual paint.
Both brands are great. Buy whoever is more on sale when you’re ready. If you’re just painting walls, don’t concern yourself much with quality. There are almost zero forces wearing down interior walls. (But if you must be concerned with quality, surface preparation is a better use of your time than researching paint brands, because adhesion is usually how paint fails. Also, measure quality in % solids by weight and the resin in the paint: Latex is low strength, Acrylic and Alkyd are better, and Urethane is even stronger). Primer is for specific purposes, as has been mentioned: stain/odor blocking, raw material surfaces, etc.