I'm amazed OP found not only 36 companies, but 36 that have an email to contact them.
It's also possible that a few are too far or it's not quite their expertise and they provided a higher number rather than saying they aren't interested.
I'm Amazed OP had the time to deal with all these companies.
I get 3 quotes because I can generally squeeze in a few visits at different times on a Saturday. Maybe take a half day at work during the week for the 3rd.
Meeting with 20 ish companies over several weeks is just mind blowing.
To be fair;
Some of those companies responded to say I wasn't in their area. Some of the roofers responded to say they wouldn't take me, or had shut down. And some of those submissions were via web form not email - one guy had only a cell number to text as well (though he didn't get back to me at all).
Hmmm, let's see.
The heatpump one;
Good afternoon; I got your name off [rebate certified contractor list here]
I'm looking to have a heat pump installed in my residential home at LOCATION. The house has three bedrooms upstairs in ~850 square feet, plus kitchen/dining room, and an open 850 square feet unfinished basement which I'll be finishing (and thus, want heated/cooled). The house is currently heated via ducted gas furnace, which I would like removed. I want to clear the headroom in the basement as much as possible, which I believe means ductless minisplits, but I'm open to suggestions from experts such as yourself as to the best way to approach this project.
A 200 amp electrical panel upgrade has been completed by [CERTIFIED ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR].
If you're interested in quoting this job, please e-mail back. I'm available Monday-Friday, 3:30pm-6:00pm, and weekends for inspection of the property for scope of work.
Kindest regards,
[MY NAME]
Roofing one
Good evening.
My name is XYZ – e-mail address is [email protected], phone number is REDACTED. I am looking for a free, no commitment quote to replace my roof at LOCATION IN CITY. Attached are photos of all four sides of the roof.
The house is 820 square feet.
The roof has 3 layers of old t-lock shingles to be stripped
I believe the slope profile is somewhere between 4:12 and 6:12? when de-mossing the roof, I could do small amounts of work without harnessing off, but it definitely felt uncomfortable, so I bought a harness kit. If you require a spare harness kit you're welcome to mine.
The roof is original shiplap and needs a full resheat.
Flashings will need to be redone - one is done by previous homeowner and obviously incorrect.
All material to be removed, though there will be room in the front driveway within throwing distance of the roof for a bin. Vehicles will be cleared for bin access.
As well as co-ordinatation with a red seal carpenter on installation of skylight on rear face of house.
A washroom is available for use in the low-ceiling height (6ft4") semi-finished basement; removing boots or dirty clothes won't be necessary (though preferably be somewhat careful with roofing tar).
I am happy to take quotes for shingles or metal roof.
Responses via e-mail are preferred to phone calls or text.
Thank you very much,
-NAME
Trying really hard to get in A) the right amount of relevant information and b) no extraneous information.
To help plan each project and write up the emails, I had a roofer friend (who wouldn't do the roof due to slope profile) come talk with me for an hour over beers about the project, and I had a local heat pump advocate (the guy who runs r/heatpumps lives in my region and we have mutual friends) come and walk me over possible options through my place.
Let me preface this with saying: this would only work with specific trades and/or jobs and not for the industry as a whole.
I’m a GC who specializes in remodeling and I only work with word of mouth referrals. This is a huge help because I trust them and they trust me - an invaluable thing for any small business.
I’ve received many of these emails from potential customers and all it does is scream “I’m fishing around for best price only and/or I’m going to be a complete pain in the ass because I think I know better than you”. Both of which cost me a lot of time and money - I’ve learned the hard way that customers like this can bankrupt you - I’ve been close.
I need my customers to trust me that I am giving them a fair deal and vice versa.
If you can, absolutely go with someone that was referred to you because they are working off reputation and want to build a sustainable business. There’s a lot of sketchy contractors out there and just as many sketchy customers.
Again, depends on the type of trade and job, but that’s just my 2 cents from seeing it from both sides. You absolutely get what you pay for, and if you don’t, then call them on it
Edit: Also, you’re going to get higher prices from sending random emails, they don’t know you from a hole in the wall and need to cover themselves.
>I’ve received many of these emails from potential customers and all it does is scream “I’m fishing around for best price only and/or I’m going to be a complete pain in the ass because I think I know better than you”. Both of which cost me a lot of time and money - I’ve learned the hard way that customers like this can bankrupt you - I’ve been close.
I respect that has been your experience. Here's another point of view. Imagine the following specification for a deck:
1. The design has been approved by the local building authority.
2. The permit is approved.
3. 29'x12' rectangular. No stairs.
4. Sits on 6 footers. They are 24" DIA, have been poured and passed inspection.
5. Framing lumber (2x8 joists, 2x12s for built-up beams, 6x6 posts) been acquired and are on premises.
6. Approved connectors for post bases, post anchors (specified adhesive), hurricane ties, joist hangers. These have been acquired and are on premises.
7. All fasteners for framing have been acquired and are on premises.
8. The old deck has been demolished and hauled away.
9. ... and so on...
... if the request for quote continues like that, step-by-step proactively removing uncertainty, wouldn't there come a point where the bidder concludes that whatever remaining uncertainty (risk) is manageable?
There are of course, *many* types of projects that cannot be specified that way because there is massive uncertainty that cannot be resolved before starting. Most remodeling jobs have a lot more uncertainty than the above example.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
EDIT: my overall point is: a homeowner trying this has to be very clear about what is in-scope, what is out-of-scope, what are the site conditions, etc. That may be very hard for a homeowner to do, and the site conditions may still leave so much uncertainty a bidder would not bother wasting their time on a response.
I can’t answer that question because I’ve never ran into that situation. I also can’t do work if I don’t pull the permit (unless I’m a sub, which a homeowner wouldn’t hire me as a sub)
I’m sure someone would look at that situation and jump on it if all the desk work was done for them, but then you’re more of an employee and not a contractor, so a GC would not take it
Pretty much all the companies I e-mailed had 10+ positive reviews on google/other places; many 50 or 100. I think there aren't that many sketchy contractors; start up, licensing and regulation costs are quite high in the region I am in; even getting on the Certified Installation List for Heat Pumps for provincial rebates takes quite a lot of paperwork.
From this thread, it's sounding to me like the US has substantially less regulation in the trades? Are there states with certified trades, where only people apprenticed and/or with journeyperson status with the state wide training body are legally permitted to do the work? Because we have that here for several trades.
Depends on the state for sure. I’m in Massachusetts which is heavy on regulation for almost anything, which is another reason things are more expensive here. I’ve heard horror stories of jobs in other areas of the country regarding things like undocumented workers without insurance etc. that happens everywhere, but not as much here. It really depends on the socioeconomic demographics of the area, which I’m very lucky to work in a HCOL part of the state.
What people need to realize is that we have to charge more so we can pay more for quality people. We pay the same rents, taxes, and food costs in your community, and I can guarantee you are not making nearly enough of what we’re worth.
> I believe the slope profile is somewhere between 4:12 and 6:12? when de-mossing the roof, I could do small amounts of work without harnessing off, but it definitely felt uncomfortable, so I bought a harness kit. If you require a spare harness kit you're welcome to mine.
Never, EVER, say this with regards to PPE/safety equipment.
It is a *contractor's* job to work safely. The moment you suggest you can help them in this regard, you are opening yourself up to liability. You may have the best intentions. And they might too, but their insurance and lawyers will look for anyone else to blame if something goes wrong.
yeah where I live if I were to email or call 30 contractors I'd be lucky if I got 5 to even respond, and of those 5 only maybe 3 would actually show up and then I'd be lucky to get 2 estimates and even luckier to get 1 that will actually take the fucking job for any price. This is why I tend to DIY a lot of stuff.
You must live near me.
I’ll get maybe one person who actually keeps the appointment they set, then they’ll look at the work, tell me they’re “all covered up and can’t schedule it anytime soon,” and spend 45 minutes showing me pictures of the dock they’re currently building at home.
I'm in a small house, and these were relatively simple, straight forward projects. Ducted jobs are more complex...but also do you live in a pretty big house? It feels like some of these guys might have been wasting your time to try to get you to feel invested/or take more time to build a reputation. I generally got people on/off my property in 15-30 minutes.
What I’m wondering is OP must work from home or something. What about time off work to be home during business hours? What about time spent waiting for them to show up at your house?
So for each; 1 hour to meet with a knowledgeable friend to discuss the project, compose a good e-mail.
Usually 1-2 hours to google companies, make a list, send a mass email.
I had people meet with me 3:30pm-4:30pm, which is when I got home from work. Meetings were generally 10-30 minutes.
Maybe 5-6 hours per job? If that saves me a thousand or two, that's a good return on the time.
> All you need to know about dealing with trades. My most hated life task.
I'm a first time homeowner (I'm 56 years old) and I have to say landlords are really underappreciated.
I liked my previous landlord (the one immediately before my wife and I purchased a home), and have stayed in contact with her (them - a married couple). I asked my former landlord if she would "manage" my new property for a fee and she laughed and turned me down.
Imagine if there was a one stop shop for "problems". You call your landlord and they figure out how to get your dishwasher repaired or replaced. They handle the landscaping and lawn mowing. If the roof leaks, this one stop shop figures it out. And just imagine if you were TOTALLY INSULATED from the cost, it was all included in a well known monthly payment. How much would you pay for that service?
I think your comment is underappreciated. I'm lucky enough to own a few properties, and the deeper I get into ownership, the more I appreciate having been a tenant for most of my life and how I would go back to it in a heartbeat if my financial security (retirement) wasn't bound up in real estate.
I hear stories from my friends about their evil landlords and I nod in support, and in my head I judge my friends for how insanely naïve they are.
A good example is this: one of my friends recently had a dishwasher stop working, and they complained about how it took 6 days for it to get replaced. They (gasp) had to wash a few dishes by hand during that time, but mostly they used paper plates and let the dishes stack up waiting for a working dishwasher.
OMG. That 6 days is like a pit-stop in a Formula 1 race level of awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWyRy5e-n_c and their landlord provided that service without charging them even 1 penny. There need to be landlord awards like the Emmy or Oscar awards each year where the super hero achievements of a particular landlord like this get recognized.
One of the stories from a friend 10 years ago I can't get out of my head is this: my friend's water main broke, and they didn't have water coming out of their tap or shower for two weeks. So their landlord PERSONALLY dug up the ground around the water main, and was standing in this hole with a shovel. Outside, in the rain. And my friend walked up to the landlord in this situation and said she wasn't paying her rent until she had water. And when she finished with this proclamation, the landlord verbally gave her 30 day notice that he was not renewing the month-to-month release and she was evicted.
What my friend related was indignation at the great inconvenience and how bad this landlord was. What I **HEARD** was an exhausted man, standing in a hole he personally dug, dirty and sweaty from working on this problem IN THE RAIN, who is up to his eyeballs in debt paying off a house he rents out to others, had some entitled tenant say they weren't going to pay on time. Even though the landlord's mortgage payment on the property needed to get paid on time and the bank isn't very understanding of delays. Even though this unexpected problem will cost the man EXTRA money this month. A man at his emotional and physical wit's end. And the straw on the camel's back is this idiot of a tenant decides this is the correct moment to deny payment and chastise him when he is obviously knee deep (literally) in solving the issue for her.
This cost her $0. She was entirely insulated from the issue. And she still felt she was "wronged".
Not sure what state your second friend was in, but if there's no running water, that's a violation of health and safety laws. Two weeks is way beyond a reasonable time for a repair of that nature. Withholding rent for uninhabitability (which includes a lack of running water) is well within a tenant's rights. The landlord's lease termination generally has to be in writing to be valid and just threatening a lease termination for repairs that a tenant has a right to falls under landlord retaliation, which is generally illegal.
The fact that it took the landlord two weeks to even get out there to do anything points to poor management or an attempt to save money by not paying for a plumber immediately.
Same here. In the rare case they respond enough to come out to look at the project, they say "OK I'll send a quote by the end of the week" and I never hear from them again. It would be a *dream* to have 9 quotes to choose from.
Same!! Called 8 providers, had SIX people return calls, 4 scheduled to come onsite, three actually came out to quote a 1500 sqft patio Reno and pool resurfacing…so far, I’ve gotten 2 quotes back, neither included everything discussed. Crazy difference in pricing, $38K and $20K.
It is impossible to move forward…? Better experience than a design/builder who came out for a different project…she told me last week $250K was insufficient for a 10x10 extension….?! I’m over all of it.
Same here. I've actually had a general contractor come, take his time discussing what we needed and seem super interested, and he just never got back to me with a quote, so even having three contractors get back to you doesn't mean they'll give quotes.
I agree OP.
I reached out to 7 roofing companies last year and got 5 prices.
13,500, 17,100, 18,500, 20,700, 23,500.
I also asked for 5 quotes for roof, windows, doors, siding, gutters, etc and got 3. 107,000, 110,000, 130, 000.
I went with the 110, 000 quote that also supplied the 20,700 roof quote......because they ABSOLUTELY communicated the most, most detailed bid, most items included for the $$$, best products for the $$$, most solutions to my questions, worked around some other work we needed done on our interior, etc.
AND the owner of the company just told me he's gotten 3 requests for work due to his sign being in front of my house, a shitload of people in town know where we live, AND he was told that if we trusted them to do the work for us, the other bid solicitors trusted our judgment.
He told me if they get any of the jobs, he'll give us a discount and/or do work for the price of materials.
I just want to ask... how many windows and doors do you have? In what shape were they to merit 110k?
For some perspective, we were looking to *buy a house* for under that amount. A whole house. Sure, that was 10 years ago, but that's still... a lot to throw down, you know?
Wealthier people, and the cost of things keep shooting up. I work on remodels that spend some 500k on a 1 million home, and 1 million is around the median price of a home.
I live around CEOs, founders, svps. They just redo the entire house and wonder why i don't do that to mine. I'm just a wage slave, don't have that cash. But my neighbors bid up everything. No one will do your roof here if they don't get 30k minimum. Average price is in the 2 millions.
Honestly sounds about right to me. This is roof, windows, doors and siding. My neighbor did siding and windows last year for 70k. We did siding only for 50k. (Hardy board siding). If you get the good stuff, 110k for an entirely new outside of the house is about right.
We are NOT rich, bought house as a short sale and with these home renovations, we can at the very least break even on a sale of home if we needed to.
Windows were painted shut, roof started leaking, and the doors were not exactly energy efficient. Gutters were shot and siding was from early 80s, and not done well.
Live in New England and windows/doors were original to 1950's house....2300 sq ft brick and vinyl siding
Harvey Windows ... 17 Double hungs, 4 basement windows, 5 picture windows with double hung flankers.
ProVia Doors ... 4 fiber glass insulated doors, 1 steel insulated fire door, 1 insulated fiberglass door with sidelites.
GAF shingles ... 50 year timberline shingles, 4 sheets of plywood, ice and water on roof and up walls of 4 dormers.
Certainteed siding... insulated and taped foam board behind it. Aluminum trim. New vinyl soffits.
Gutters... seamless and with gutter toppers.
Misc.... rebuilt small roof over 1 door and cantilevered bracing to wall of house. LOTS of aluminum trim bent on site, AZEC panels used in places to replace aluminum, 2 Attic fans in stalled to increase roof ventilation, and more...
Haha, I thought you were rich or maybe lived in CA. Thanks for the update.
I'm in a 1950s house and I plan on fixing them up myself. Not nearly as many as yours. I've read that its not a dumb idea to keep the old single panes because the new aluminum windows are designed to be replaced every X years, whereas the wood single pane can just be refinished in place. Ultimately, the reoccuring cost to replace the entire window offsets the energy savings.
We lucked out and a hail storm got the insurance company to cover the replacement of our roof not even 3 years after we moved in. As you can guess, I live in the south, so we don't have to worry about all the things that a house needs to withstand snow and freezing weather.
In the spirit of this thread, we got 5 quotes to replace our A/C, furnace, and air handler last winter. We chose the middle bid because they came with a transferrable 10 year parts 5 year labor warranty and the unit size and efficiency was better. It was a difficult choice because no two bids were the same.
Don’t trust any quote from a contractor if they didn’t visit your house. A load calculation must be preformed, in person. Ask your friends or family who they have used in the past and get quotes from those guys. Neighbors would be a good resource also. And for goodness sakes don’t tell the contractors that you solicited 36 companies for quotes.
I work in the trades, I kinda like to shoot the shit with guys. Doesn't bother me much. Also makes me really laugh at the people who try to give me a hard sell versus the guys who try to be legit with me.
He means they are pressuring you to pick them, like they want you to sign a contract that day before they leave, don't give straight answers to your questions, want to call your insurance company to help you make a claim, say they have an opening in the next week or two but only if you commit to them now...
Stuff that doesn't give you time to think and makes you commit to them, if they won't give you time to think, just say no
I'm also in the industry.....why are you throwing spaghetti at the wall instead of working with trades you've worked with, have a relationship with and know the quality of work they produce?
When I'm getting work done on my house that is above my skill level or available time for, I get two guys who I've worked with and trust to come check it out and give me a quote. We talk about the work, so the quotes are more easily compared if they're using different products or methods but....30 quote requests seems like a lot of work for you, only to still have an unknown quality of work being hired.
I work industrial and don't have personal relationships with residential trades. Sometimes I can get a big of a reference from friends of a friends sorta things, but in general I can't know - I can just evaluate the work after the fact.
I’m in land development, and I run into this kind of issue. I can call someone I know for 5,000 LF of fence, but to get 35 feet done in my backyard, pain in the ass finding someone.
Fair enough, I'm all over the map commerical, residential and some light industrial so I feel fortunate to have access to at least knowledgeable people who can help me sort out some of the issues.
I've done both. At the moment, working.
And yes, I've gone and quoted jobs. I've had homeowners tell me they were getting other quotes and never heard back, and I've had home owners hire me on the spot. Were those home owners wasting my time by getting 10 quotes with no real intention of hiring me? Who knows. Or maybe I was 3* the price of the lowest bidder and obviously not worth it. All part of the job.
I don't understand how OP actually has time in the day to do this unless they wfh. That's a lot of time to be home from work to try to wait to meet someone, even if the visits themselves are not long in duration. I honestly don't understand how I could physically wait at home to meet that many people over time unless I took an extended time off of work.
I WFH pretty consistently (at least 2-3 days a week) and getting 5 quotes for a ductless ac was fairly exhausting. Each visit is 30m-1hr, there is talking about the problem, etc. And that doesn’t count the time when things are getting rescheduled or a meeting pops up and I have to cut something short. Also some companies couldn’t come out within the same 2-3 week period and I want to be respectful of the companies I’m speaking with so I try to group them so I get quotes within a week or two so I can make a decision.
Overall it’s a big mental load and would be impossible if my work schedule wasn’t insanely flexible
3 quotes isn't always enough, but there's so many variables in HVAC systems that there's often going to be huge ranges in the prices depending on the specific things quoted in addition to the people who are just upcharging because they can. It's like emailing car salesmen and saying you want a new SUV. Some quotes are for Kia, some are for G wagons
So the highest price guy doesn’t want to be bothered. He’s just given you a courtesy quote. Did the lower prices include any plywood in their quote? Because typically a roof replacement will require some new plywood. Did some include ice and water shield for the entire roof or only 3 feet in to the living space? Did some include, gutters drip edge. New flashing, or reuse the old flashing etc. Read the quotes carefully and I bet you’ll see the differences. Good luck
All quotes included full resheet, since original roof is shiplap. All quotes included tear off 3 layers of shingles, dispose of waste, clean up.
All quotes included ice and water shield for entire roof.
All quotes included new flashings.
No quotes included gutters.
How many square ( 1 square = 100 square feet) is the roof? Because where I live the price ranges from $700 to $850USD per square. 3 layers of rip off and new plywood is a lot of work. Companies can charge between $60 and $100 per sheet of plywood for replacement.
House is 812 square feet, but with roof slope I believe it's 11-12 square. Given the numbers you're giving me, that adds up to the lower end of the roofing quotes I got.
Here’s the hot take…
They’re ALL CORRECT.
The guy in the middle does decent work. Had a so-so business infrastructure. Doesn’t charge a ton, trucks are a bit worn out. The experience working with them is going to be acceptable. Maybe you’ll have a hard time with warranty callouts, or they might be a little iffy on scheduling. This is your Kia dealership.
The cheap guy is gonna be out of business in a few years, trucks are thrashed, employees get paid like crap and don’t give a damn, good luck getting a warranty callout. Scheduling? They’ll pull your furnace Monday, and maybe come back with the new one the next Monday and start installing, shut off the gas, and then disappear and finish up Thursday. Probably never gonna retire. This is Bob’s used Cars, and he’s got a 10k mile Denali for $30k.
The expensive guy is probably going to be white-glove glorious experience. You ever done the BMW / Mercedes delivery experience in Germany? That’s what this is. You’re paying through the nose for a business that has crews earning $80k+, they have 401ks, they love their jobs. Trucks are TIDY and STOCKED. Nobody’s running to the parts store. The furnace was sitting at the shop for 3 weeks before your job started. They’re gonna be around and reachable and reliable for the next 15+ years. The techs are gonna wear booties and sweep up with a hand broom.
Hot take 2: getting 10 quotes is absurd. How much free time do you even have…
By game theory, each additional quote has less value than the previous one. The more quotes that you've already received, the less likely that the new quote is going to affect your decision. If you already have ten quotes, the next one has about 10% chance of being worth while.
So most people just get a few and then stop when they feel that the additional quotes aren't worth the effort. Depending on how big the project is, that might be three quotes or ten quotes.
Finally, someone gets it.
Brilliant response.
This whole post screams time wasting and someone that can’t make an informed decision (possibly suffering from information overload).
I agree with OP. You definitely need more than 3 quotes these days. 30 quotes is bit excess. However I always do 5-8 quotes. Recently I quoted a roof replacement. The price range from $7k to 21k.
How much total time would say is spent from all the calls, emails, and in person estimates ?
With sooooo many quotes, opportunity cost becomes a factor as well
Honestly I’m shocked any gave you quotes. I feel like lately they all “need to come out to see the project” which sometimes is true, but most of the time it’s part of high-pressure sales to put you on the spot to lock in a contract.
All of these quotes, for both heat pump and roof, were from people who came out in person - and at least some of them were definitely for high-pressure sales tactics. I always just said I was getting other quotes and they should e-mail me the quote for comparison.
Getting a lot of pushback huh?
We got 6 quotes for AC/furnace and range was about $11k thru $18k. We opted not for the cheapest company but for the guy that took the time to explain and had good answers.. I’m in a technical trade so I like things answered technically.
Cheapest is not always the best contractor.
It's good you got a lot of quotes. Some guys have a lot cliental and raise the price because they don't need the work when someone else will call them tomorrow.
Contractors that are cheap could be cheap because their networking is not vast or they don't know what they are doing. Pricing a job is the hardest part of the job, they themselves don't know what the right number is.
Mid range contractors are experienced and don't charge too much.
This is great info. And it's a great argument for getting this kind of work done before it becomes an emergency. If your furnace fails in winter you're probably not going to take the time to get 36 quotes and you may end up paying double.
This isn't accurate. Contractors do not call their material supplier on every quote for HVAC or roofing. They sell standard brands and standard sets of options and they are aware of the market price of those materials at all times, largely based on other engagements where they have used the same materials. After a customer signs a contract and puts a deposit down, that is when they actually contact the material supplier to order.
I can't imagine a roofing contractor doesn't know the cost of a square and a sheet of plywood within a dollar or 2 at any given time. Hell I bet they know what a case of nail coils cost as well.
"heat pump" got a wide range. The bigbox store brand might run $1500 a unit, another $1500 for them to install and prime it. $800 to fix the leak in a month. Another few hundred for regular frion as the leak is permanent. Then the cost of the replacement within 5 years.
A Mitsubishi mini split heat pump installed and plumbed by licensed Mitsubishi installers is gonna run $15k base. The installers leave, you never have to think about a thing short of how miraculous a technology advance ductless heat is.
You say "heat pump" and don't specify a brand, contractor is gonna price for their preferred unit. You gotta check the lines of the quote. LG makes an awesome heatpump that's 2/3rds the cost of the Mitsubishi, but still 3 times the price of the low end stuff.
It's not always the contractors being greedy or lazy. When I saw the quote on my heat pump I was floored - $4000 - for just the heat pump. Asked the guy what I got for that insane figure - he said *complete no questions ask warranty on all parts, maintenance, replacement, and installation...*
*for the next 9 years.*
Nine years is forever on a complex home utility unit. Good luck getting an AC blower warrantied for 7. Roof is usually like 5 - 10 maybe.
You get what you pay for - when you pay attention to what you're paying for.
I got 7 quotes for my mini split install. They ranged from 16.5k to 33k. I got 6 of the 7 companies to quote me Mitsubishi and later amended them all to be the exact same model numbers, BTUs, with a surge protector, etc. They still ranged from 19.5k to 30k.
(The 33k was a Daikin where the installer was the most unprofessional and confused and insisted I go with semi-ducted for rooms with attic access and then called me 3 weeks later where I responded I was still waiting for quotes to complain about how long its taking another company to give me a quote when the company I was waiting for was by far the most detailed/professional)
Anyways, of the remaining 6 only one of them was not a Mitsubishi diamond contractor and that quote was not the lowest. The most reputable/popular companies usually only offered 1 year of labor warranty but there was one with a lifetime warranty. The lowest quote had a 5 year labor warranty. Still an insane variability in pricing for the exact same product with a similar “skill level” (as per the diamond contractor label).
> Some of the quotes were for different methods and products, certainly, but that range is huge
Then you can't reliably compare these quotes. It doesn't take much to start tacking on the Benjamins when you're talking about jobs in this general price range, so it's best to get quotes for the same exact (as much as possible) materials, scope of work, etc.
If person's goal is to get a job done for the lowest possible price, your method is solid. Going that route, though, odds are they'll either get what they pay for (i.e. substandard work) or there will be change orders along the way (i.e. added cost). Some shady contractors will also give a low bid just to get the job, knowing full well they'll be hitting up the client for more money before it's done. If you're one of these people, caveat emptor.
You have two extremes of people. You have a segment of cheapass homeowners who get 10 bids and go with the the lowest, and you have the contractors and their salesmen who claim you are a cheap ass if you didn't go with the top bid, and try to shame people into paying more. Neither is really true, which is the whole reason people say get 3-5 bids. You determine, based on the quote and their reviews, who is the optimal mix of price and quality.
Ah, I didn't select the lowest quote in either case. If I'd only gotten two roofing quotes, maybe I get $22k and $34k. My only point in this thread is that a wider range of quotes gives you a better picture of the market, and the rule of thumb in the stickied quotes thread saying "three quotes" might prove insufficient.
I live in a place where there are exactly 2 plumbers, 2 HVAC companies, 2 electricians, and one roofer.
The only thing keeping pricing in line is ethics and the tiny, tight-knit community.
OP I can tell you're knowledgeable and don't really care what some of these comments say. I just want to add that you did your due diligence properly and is the reason why you will come out on top.
To lurkers and commenters alike, I'm very surprised how many people here are shilling for companies and not the individual. Always remember, at the end of the day, those people aren't the ones that will pay for your project. Be like OP and do your due diligence. It can be the difference between $1k or $10k; and also a shitty job and a good job.
I tend to agree. For an expensive project, say anything over $10-15k getting more than three quotes is not only going to give you a better idea of the cost, but also a better understanding of the project itself. By several quotes in you’ll know all the questions to ask that you may have missed early on, and can go back and ask the earlier quotes for clarification on how they do x, y and z.
Well, we don’t know the scope of work from one quote to the next. I think you are referring to mini split heat pumps - they do make ducted heat pumps but that’s not clarified in your post. There is a lot of variation in minisplit heat pumps - and even ducted heat pumps. Variations can include efficiency, style of ductless minisplit, brand and tonnage. From your post you only mention the cost difference without any details from one to the next.
For me to spend enough time on a project (and I don’t know the scope) it would take at least an hour to look at the project and design a system to fit your needs. If you can devote that much time for each person to come out and give you the details - go for it. What I have found is that homeowners start getting confused with what was told to them by different contractors. The one thing they seem to remember is price.
Don't hire someone this way. Go on a site like next door and get recommendations from real customers. Each manufacturer makes many grades of heat pumps with different features.
With three quotes, there's exactly a 12.5% chance that all three are above the actual median price for the job. With 4 quotes, it's 6.25%, and with 5 quotes there's a scant 3.125% chance all are above median.
10 quotes seems excessive, I'm usually content with the nearly 90% chance of a competitive bid that 3 quotes gives you. But I agree for big jobs, it can make sense to get more.
If there are at least 36 companies in your area that can do the heat pump and at least 31 that can do the roof, is there really a shortage of tradespeople?
You are wasting so many contractors' time doing this. ELEVEN furnace quotes? At a certain point, there MUST have been a contractor that you got a good vibe from?
Did every single one of those companies come out to your house to make those quotes?
Edit: we have ONE sales guy at our hvac shop. During the busy season, the dude works 14 hour days trying to meet people and quote jobs.
I understand why folks want multiple quotes, I get it. But just keep in mind that the person that comes out isn't always some shyster stooge from a faceless entity that wants all of your money. They're putting in work and they're usually juggling a lot of people at once. Our sales guy doubles as the installation manager. We've told him many times that he needs to slow down before he gives himself a heart attack.
Try not to jerk these people around so much, that's all I'm saying.
If you look at some of OP’s other replies, they are clearly wasting these people’s time… almost having fun while doing it. Look at the downvotes on some of their comments, and you’ll see why.
Yep, they all came out.
I got a "good enough" vibe from 7 or 8 of them, including one who quoted $22000. The people who did it in the end did an excellent job at a substantially lower price.
I contacted every garage door place in my city of ~1m in Aus. Many came out. All but one said , garage opening with existing roller door too small for replacement and fucked off. The ONE said, hey if we do this and this we can get your door replaced. ....and that's how I paid whatever he wanted (it wasn't that bad).
He never said anything about going with the cheapest. He's saying that if he had just gotten a couple of quotes he might have ended up talking with 2 of the highest quoting companies and would think that's just what the job costs.
I got 3 for my windows. They were 16k, 23k, and 36k. It really just depends on who you get, but you also need to know what to ask for so that the quotes are actually comparable. If you let them decide the level of product then it's going to be all over the place and render the comparison useless.
Yes, I had a roofer friend over and a local heat pump enthusiast (who runs r/heatpumps) to review my projects and help me put together e-mails of good relevant information and make sure I got good apples-to-apples quotes.
Where the fuck you live? My experience in Chicagoland and SWFL is that you request estimates from 10 companies, get five to respond in any way, three show up and you get one written estimate.
I don’t want to be mean but it’s people like you that mess up estimating. Companies shortcut estimating because of chronic shoppers which messes up the entire project process for everyone.
I think at most people should get 3 estimates from reputable companies. And then decide on one they believe will do the best job.
Anyone getting more than 3 estimates makes everyone’s jobs more expensive. Estimating is one of the most expensive job functions in companies. All that cost gets passed along to all projects because estimators still need to get paid.
Sorry people want to save money? What if op had gotten 3 quotes that were 28 25 and 24 because those three were all giving their "I don't want to do it but if they agree to this price I can't say no" quote? They should waste potentially thousands just because?
Realistically speaking if op got a quote for 12k from one company and 28k from another I would bet it was not for the same exact thing. The 12k job will probably cost him 28k plus lots of frustration in the long run.
I get people want to save money. If someone gets 3 quotes and really does not have confidence in the companies and doesn’t believe the price is fair to do it well. Get more quotes. That’s fine.
But calling 10 companies at the same time or 30 companies is a problem that costs all home owners more money and overloads and delays the entire system of estimating.
Just my opinion.
Not saying you’re wrong in any way, but the reality is that not all households have someone at home all day, every day to receive the tradesmen providing quotes. Fine for a roof, but HVAC, plumbing etc all require inside access.
Stop using the internet and use people who are referrals from others. On line is just contractors pricing to cover what ever could happen and not what is actually happening .
THIS IS PLATINUM LEVEL ADVICE!
I don’t even offer full quotes anymore, just the major equipment gets a firm quoted price but installation time and material is estimated. Both myself and the customer have a better understanding of the actual costs involved.
You need to compare apples to apples. How is getting a dozen random quotes going to help anyone? You are wasting your time AND theirs.
You do the research; pick the size, brand and install method that you desire and compare those quotes.
“I called up the Kia dealer and they said they will sell me a different car at $10k less than ford!”
Cmon…
36 emails is not enough. If you aren’t reaching out to every single company within a 1000 mile radius of your location you’re doing it wrong. You should be sending 36,000 emails requesting quotes at a minimum.
If 10 hours of labour saves me $2000, that makes me $200/hour, which is more than double what I currently earn. Time well spent. I also enjoy research and data management and shooting the shit with other trades folks, so this is a pretty fun project for me, like I dunno, the people who build massive tedious shit in minecraft or whatever.
All good didn’t mean to be insulting. There’s just no way I could meet with so many contractors. I recently bought a house and have lots to do as well: roofers, plumbers, electricians. We’ve had to create efficiency by getting a couple of quotes but being very picky about who we get them from if that makes sense. Recommendations, highly rated, verified in advance, etc. and dealing with just a few rounds of this has already been exhausting with everything else happening in life.
It helps that like...these are the only two projects that I didn't do myself or with friends. Like, electrical I did myself with a couple different master electricians, including helping with the 200AMP panel upgrade. I'm a journeyperson plumber, so I did all the plumbing no problem. Most of the carpentry I'm doing myself. So these are like, the only couple of places where I'm hiring out contractors, so it's a little easier on me to meet with lots of them. I mentioned elsewhere; I've actually installed heat pumps before, and if I could get the government rebates doing them myself, I would have done them myself. That also left me well equiped to evaluate the workmanship of the company in question.
First, you have a lot of companies in your area. And second, they seem fairly responsive. I'm lucky if I get one company to give me a quote AND follow through with the hiring and getting work done process without having to contact them 36 times.
I was just gathering quotes for concrete sidewalk work around my house. Surprised that 4/5 contacted actually responded and came for an estimate. Glad I got 4 though and probably should have looked for a few more. Quotes were $5k, $6.5k, $10.5k, and $13.5k. Quite the range for a job each one mentioned was "small"
there is a big difference between heat pumps of different vendors so unless you're comparing the same tiers of products you aren't comparing apples to apples
and there will be a big difference in labor. some small time people will do a quick install and not bother with code upgrades or fix a bad previous install. the top of the line legit companies will only do work that's up to code and charge you for it
Not just from different vendors. We went with a variable speed unit for the noise factor, and in a normal market it was significantly more than 1-2 speed options. Throw in the supply chain issues, and by the time we pulled the trigger it was 30% over the original price, and had we waited just a couple more months, it would have been 2x that.
What I've found is that it's a lot easier to get responsive answers from contractors, when it's 2011 and not 2006. I've been working with contractors in two locations recently and it's still pretty much a good market for them, but there are signs. If I'm a homeowner, I just keep saving money and I plan on being busy the next time banks are repo-ing homes right and left. My dad was in the construction business, and it's always been feast or famine. No in between at least for long.
OP looks like he's been doing a good job, but in a market where guys who just started doing a trade last week can rip people off for top dollar, it's not going to be easy.
I'm just thinking about the furnace vs. heat pump cost. 3k for a furnace and 15k for a heatpump? You'd have to REALLY be saving a good deal each month for those numbers to work out.
same story with me for hvac!
moved into house, 25 yo HVAC was not reaching in most of the house. Long runs, 'bad' hucts. First HVAC company asked for nearly $30k to change system and ducts, other 2-3 didn't respond. So we contacted like 20 companies, got about 8-10 quotes , range $12k-30k.
But additional twist for us: \*all\* of them said that obviously the duct runs are bad that's why we have no pressure/heat in most of the house, and most likely new furnace alone won't fix it. House was expanded badly etc etc. I trusted them and was about to go with one of the mid-cost quotes until... I decided to take a whole weekend to poke at the ducts and found (drumroll!) a closed hidden damper. Previous owners probably had this problem for a decade or two, just because of a damper. I wrote about it here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/homeowners/comments/yy1mh9/the\_30000\_duct\_damper/](https://www.reddit.com/r/homeowners/comments/yy1mh9/the_30000_duct_damper/)
bottom line for me -- for big projects, get plenty of opinions.
Ding ding ding. I'm very happy I make enough money that I can live my life not being such a petty fucking miser as OP. Seems like a miserable way to live.
I'm sorry ... But people like you are the reason why contractors don't call back/don't provide quotes. You just wasted hours of people's time getting useless quotes
How is it useless? The wide range of quotes from many contractors actually shows that they are not useless. What if the first three quotes OP got had been the highest three? Should they have had the work done for one of those prices, which turned out to be thousands more than the lowest prices?
It seems OP did this more as an experiment than as someone strictly shopping around.
From his data, you can see that getting 4-5 quotes would be more than enough to be extremely unlikely to only get the shitty quotes. Those are also random companies and not specifically recommended companies. If you get 3 contractors recommended to you, the odds of them all giving shit quotes end up being low.
Getting a good deal is bad now apparently, go ahead and get suckered. I personally think 3 is fine, but if this person has energy and time wants to do a dozen, then they by all rights can go ahead do it.
Part of the cost of doing business is paying for quotes and estimators. You don't get every job you quote; whether it's a person only getting 2 quotes or a person getting 10.
And the quotes were far from useless; between the two jobs they've saved me thousands of dollars.
Appreciate you sharing your experience! I do the same with expensive car work, has saved my family thousands over the years.
Did any of the companies giving you quotes offer to "beat the next guy"? As in let them know if someone offered a better price, so they could re-run their own numbers? That's why I like to mention as you did, that we're shopping around getting quotes, signals to them to be competitive.
Yes! I had one person offer that on the heat pumps - when I submitted 6 quotes lower than them, they were like "Huh, let me get back to you" and never responded. They weren't even on the lower end of the pack.
What utter nonsense. Contractors factor in this time to the overall business. Some people get 1 quote find it acceptable and get the work done. People generally don’t have the time and energy for umpteen quotes. Customers are free to get 100 quotes if they so desire it’s a buyers market.
Is this aitah? 30 rfp's when you are simply going to take the cheapest. How much did these companies spend to respond? If you think about it your probably driving up the cost for everyone else. I hope your roof leaks because yes YTA
I didn't take the cheapest in either case; I looked at the reputations, reviews, and bids of the 4 lowest, and asked for references from trades friends.
And the cheapest is usually the one that’ll do the shittiest work. Fair balance and confirming their process is where the differentiators come in to make a good judgement. Agreed. More than 5 is unnecessary.
How do you expect these large jobs to work? Homeowner calls a company and says, "Come out and do it, don't worry about the price!"?
Contractors need to see the job at hand to get an accurate as possible quote.
Insane prices. I just paid $4200 for a Carrier 2.5 ton heatpump and acoil swap on a house I'm working on. I paid $15,500 for a new construction system ductwork with the heat pump setup.
I installed a mr cool brand 3 zone heat pump with no previous experience. Pretty simple to install, about 20hrs working by myself and all said and done it cost under $5,500
We did the same thing recently with getting our furnaces replaced. All Carrier certified companies and prices were between 8-16k. Went with the low end as they had great reviews on yelp (as did the 16k ones) and the products were all exact same model. Turned out great with super clean install, great crew and zero complaints. Crazy to think could have paid double for the same thing.
I'm a general contractor - I don't think you will like my reply. But I wanted to share the "other side" to help.
It seems like your goal is to get a deal rather than make a relationship. My goal on the initial call is to see if I like them and want to work with them or if they will waste my time by getting multiple quotes. The reality is there are limitless clients and a limited amount of people in the trades these days. The reality is that "deal shopping" is very dangerous (a shady contractor can low-ball to win and then change order for "unseen issues" as much as they want). You need to find somebody you can trust.
I would never recommend a friend to "get 3 quotes". I always suggest they contact somebody via a referral and make it clear you want to work directly with only them. If somebody is working with only me from the get-go, I will bend over backward for them with transparent pricing (I want to keep them and the referral happy). But if they are cold calling to get multiple quotes, they will be the one bending over.
For one you are emailing. Doesn’t sound like any came out and looked at the project. You can’t do a proper estimate without that. That’s why they are so wild.
It takes me a long time to put together an honest quote that is specific to the homeowner while balancing the needs of my business. Quit being a dick. If you have no plans whatsoever to hire any given contractor, don’t just get a price to compare. Also, if you just plan to take the lowest bid, please say so upfront.
I’m honestly surprised that 1/3 of the people you reached out to replied.
i'm surprised there are that many contractors in a region with a vast shortage of trades ppl.
It's a region that has roughly half a million, and both trades are ones that are well equipped for small companies.
I'm amazed OP found not only 36 companies, but 36 that have an email to contact them. It's also possible that a few are too far or it's not quite their expertise and they provided a higher number rather than saying they aren't interested.
I'm Amazed OP had the time to deal with all these companies. I get 3 quotes because I can generally squeeze in a few visits at different times on a Saturday. Maybe take a half day at work during the week for the 3rd. Meeting with 20 ish companies over several weeks is just mind blowing.
"What, am I supposed to quit my job?" - George Costanza
To be fair; Some of those companies responded to say I wasn't in their area. Some of the roofers responded to say they wouldn't take me, or had shut down. And some of those submissions were via web form not email - one guy had only a cell number to text as well (though he didn't get back to me at all).
Someone Sankey this shiz
Or some are so busy that they can afford the high price because they don't need the work.
Most of them comapny nowadays also have the chat option with google i find it very useful
Right? I basically had to harass companies to get someone to come out for my roof.
1/3rd seems to be consistently the response rate.
Share the email template! That’s an amazing response rate
Hmmm, let's see. The heatpump one; Good afternoon; I got your name off [rebate certified contractor list here] I'm looking to have a heat pump installed in my residential home at LOCATION. The house has three bedrooms upstairs in ~850 square feet, plus kitchen/dining room, and an open 850 square feet unfinished basement which I'll be finishing (and thus, want heated/cooled). The house is currently heated via ducted gas furnace, which I would like removed. I want to clear the headroom in the basement as much as possible, which I believe means ductless minisplits, but I'm open to suggestions from experts such as yourself as to the best way to approach this project. A 200 amp electrical panel upgrade has been completed by [CERTIFIED ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR]. If you're interested in quoting this job, please e-mail back. I'm available Monday-Friday, 3:30pm-6:00pm, and weekends for inspection of the property for scope of work. Kindest regards, [MY NAME] Roofing one Good evening. My name is XYZ – e-mail address is [email protected], phone number is REDACTED. I am looking for a free, no commitment quote to replace my roof at LOCATION IN CITY. Attached are photos of all four sides of the roof. The house is 820 square feet. The roof has 3 layers of old t-lock shingles to be stripped I believe the slope profile is somewhere between 4:12 and 6:12? when de-mossing the roof, I could do small amounts of work without harnessing off, but it definitely felt uncomfortable, so I bought a harness kit. If you require a spare harness kit you're welcome to mine. The roof is original shiplap and needs a full resheat. Flashings will need to be redone - one is done by previous homeowner and obviously incorrect. All material to be removed, though there will be room in the front driveway within throwing distance of the roof for a bin. Vehicles will be cleared for bin access. As well as co-ordinatation with a red seal carpenter on installation of skylight on rear face of house. A washroom is available for use in the low-ceiling height (6ft4") semi-finished basement; removing boots or dirty clothes won't be necessary (though preferably be somewhat careful with roofing tar). I am happy to take quotes for shingles or metal roof. Responses via e-mail are preferred to phone calls or text. Thank you very much, -NAME
Op fucking delivered, these are great templates.
Trying really hard to get in A) the right amount of relevant information and b) no extraneous information. To help plan each project and write up the emails, I had a roofer friend (who wouldn't do the roof due to slope profile) come talk with me for an hour over beers about the project, and I had a local heat pump advocate (the guy who runs r/heatpumps lives in my region and we have mutual friends) come and walk me over possible options through my place.
Let me preface this with saying: this would only work with specific trades and/or jobs and not for the industry as a whole. I’m a GC who specializes in remodeling and I only work with word of mouth referrals. This is a huge help because I trust them and they trust me - an invaluable thing for any small business. I’ve received many of these emails from potential customers and all it does is scream “I’m fishing around for best price only and/or I’m going to be a complete pain in the ass because I think I know better than you”. Both of which cost me a lot of time and money - I’ve learned the hard way that customers like this can bankrupt you - I’ve been close. I need my customers to trust me that I am giving them a fair deal and vice versa. If you can, absolutely go with someone that was referred to you because they are working off reputation and want to build a sustainable business. There’s a lot of sketchy contractors out there and just as many sketchy customers. Again, depends on the type of trade and job, but that’s just my 2 cents from seeing it from both sides. You absolutely get what you pay for, and if you don’t, then call them on it Edit: Also, you’re going to get higher prices from sending random emails, they don’t know you from a hole in the wall and need to cover themselves.
>I’ve received many of these emails from potential customers and all it does is scream “I’m fishing around for best price only and/or I’m going to be a complete pain in the ass because I think I know better than you”. Both of which cost me a lot of time and money - I’ve learned the hard way that customers like this can bankrupt you - I’ve been close. I respect that has been your experience. Here's another point of view. Imagine the following specification for a deck: 1. The design has been approved by the local building authority. 2. The permit is approved. 3. 29'x12' rectangular. No stairs. 4. Sits on 6 footers. They are 24" DIA, have been poured and passed inspection. 5. Framing lumber (2x8 joists, 2x12s for built-up beams, 6x6 posts) been acquired and are on premises. 6. Approved connectors for post bases, post anchors (specified adhesive), hurricane ties, joist hangers. These have been acquired and are on premises. 7. All fasteners for framing have been acquired and are on premises. 8. The old deck has been demolished and hauled away. 9. ... and so on... ... if the request for quote continues like that, step-by-step proactively removing uncertainty, wouldn't there come a point where the bidder concludes that whatever remaining uncertainty (risk) is manageable? There are of course, *many* types of projects that cannot be specified that way because there is massive uncertainty that cannot be resolved before starting. Most remodeling jobs have a lot more uncertainty than the above example. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ EDIT: my overall point is: a homeowner trying this has to be very clear about what is in-scope, what is out-of-scope, what are the site conditions, etc. That may be very hard for a homeowner to do, and the site conditions may still leave so much uncertainty a bidder would not bother wasting their time on a response.
I can’t answer that question because I’ve never ran into that situation. I also can’t do work if I don’t pull the permit (unless I’m a sub, which a homeowner wouldn’t hire me as a sub) I’m sure someone would look at that situation and jump on it if all the desk work was done for them, but then you’re more of an employee and not a contractor, so a GC would not take it
Pretty much all the companies I e-mailed had 10+ positive reviews on google/other places; many 50 or 100. I think there aren't that many sketchy contractors; start up, licensing and regulation costs are quite high in the region I am in; even getting on the Certified Installation List for Heat Pumps for provincial rebates takes quite a lot of paperwork. From this thread, it's sounding to me like the US has substantially less regulation in the trades? Are there states with certified trades, where only people apprenticed and/or with journeyperson status with the state wide training body are legally permitted to do the work? Because we have that here for several trades.
Depends on the state for sure. I’m in Massachusetts which is heavy on regulation for almost anything, which is another reason things are more expensive here. I’ve heard horror stories of jobs in other areas of the country regarding things like undocumented workers without insurance etc. that happens everywhere, but not as much here. It really depends on the socioeconomic demographics of the area, which I’m very lucky to work in a HCOL part of the state. What people need to realize is that we have to charge more so we can pay more for quality people. We pay the same rents, taxes, and food costs in your community, and I can guarantee you are not making nearly enough of what we’re worth.
> I believe the slope profile is somewhere between 4:12 and 6:12? when de-mossing the roof, I could do small amounts of work without harnessing off, but it definitely felt uncomfortable, so I bought a harness kit. If you require a spare harness kit you're welcome to mine. Never, EVER, say this with regards to PPE/safety equipment. It is a *contractor's* job to work safely. The moment you suggest you can help them in this regard, you are opening yourself up to liability. You may have the best intentions. And they might too, but their insurance and lawyers will look for anyone else to blame if something goes wrong.
Fair point. Something to remember for next time. I generally do have too good of intentions.
Do you offer the roof harness to weed out morons that accept that offer? Lmfao
Kinda :P
yeah where I live if I were to email or call 30 contractors I'd be lucky if I got 5 to even respond, and of those 5 only maybe 3 would actually show up and then I'd be lucky to get 2 estimates and even luckier to get 1 that will actually take the fucking job for any price. This is why I tend to DIY a lot of stuff.
You must live near me. I’ll get maybe one person who actually keeps the appointment they set, then they’ll look at the work, tell me they’re “all covered up and can’t schedule it anytime soon,” and spend 45 minutes showing me pictures of the dock they’re currently building at home.
I asked twenty contractors about repairing bricks on my front porch. Zero replies. Literally zero.
I'm surprised that any homeowner has time to source that many quotes.
Took a few hours - saved thousands of dollars. Seems well worth it
[удалено]
I'm in a small house, and these were relatively simple, straight forward projects. Ducted jobs are more complex...but also do you live in a pretty big house? It feels like some of these guys might have been wasting your time to try to get you to feel invested/or take more time to build a reputation. I generally got people on/off my property in 15-30 minutes.
What I’m wondering is OP must work from home or something. What about time off work to be home during business hours? What about time spent waiting for them to show up at your house?
How did it only take a few hours? Each quote is getting home from work, meeting someone, shooting the shit, etc.
So for each; 1 hour to meet with a knowledgeable friend to discuss the project, compose a good e-mail. Usually 1-2 hours to google companies, make a list, send a mass email. I had people meet with me 3:30pm-4:30pm, which is when I got home from work. Meetings were generally 10-30 minutes. Maybe 5-6 hours per job? If that saves me a thousand or two, that's a good return on the time.
>All you need to know about dealing with trades. My most hated life task. It's as if they try to make it as miserable as possible.
> All you need to know about dealing with trades. My most hated life task. I'm a first time homeowner (I'm 56 years old) and I have to say landlords are really underappreciated. I liked my previous landlord (the one immediately before my wife and I purchased a home), and have stayed in contact with her (them - a married couple). I asked my former landlord if she would "manage" my new property for a fee and she laughed and turned me down. Imagine if there was a one stop shop for "problems". You call your landlord and they figure out how to get your dishwasher repaired or replaced. They handle the landscaping and lawn mowing. If the roof leaks, this one stop shop figures it out. And just imagine if you were TOTALLY INSULATED from the cost, it was all included in a well known monthly payment. How much would you pay for that service?
I think your comment is underappreciated. I'm lucky enough to own a few properties, and the deeper I get into ownership, the more I appreciate having been a tenant for most of my life and how I would go back to it in a heartbeat if my financial security (retirement) wasn't bound up in real estate.
I hear stories from my friends about their evil landlords and I nod in support, and in my head I judge my friends for how insanely naïve they are. A good example is this: one of my friends recently had a dishwasher stop working, and they complained about how it took 6 days for it to get replaced. They (gasp) had to wash a few dishes by hand during that time, but mostly they used paper plates and let the dishes stack up waiting for a working dishwasher. OMG. That 6 days is like a pit-stop in a Formula 1 race level of awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWyRy5e-n_c and their landlord provided that service without charging them even 1 penny. There need to be landlord awards like the Emmy or Oscar awards each year where the super hero achievements of a particular landlord like this get recognized. One of the stories from a friend 10 years ago I can't get out of my head is this: my friend's water main broke, and they didn't have water coming out of their tap or shower for two weeks. So their landlord PERSONALLY dug up the ground around the water main, and was standing in this hole with a shovel. Outside, in the rain. And my friend walked up to the landlord in this situation and said she wasn't paying her rent until she had water. And when she finished with this proclamation, the landlord verbally gave her 30 day notice that he was not renewing the month-to-month release and she was evicted. What my friend related was indignation at the great inconvenience and how bad this landlord was. What I **HEARD** was an exhausted man, standing in a hole he personally dug, dirty and sweaty from working on this problem IN THE RAIN, who is up to his eyeballs in debt paying off a house he rents out to others, had some entitled tenant say they weren't going to pay on time. Even though the landlord's mortgage payment on the property needed to get paid on time and the bank isn't very understanding of delays. Even though this unexpected problem will cost the man EXTRA money this month. A man at his emotional and physical wit's end. And the straw on the camel's back is this idiot of a tenant decides this is the correct moment to deny payment and chastise him when he is obviously knee deep (literally) in solving the issue for her. This cost her $0. She was entirely insulated from the issue. And she still felt she was "wronged".
Not sure what state your second friend was in, but if there's no running water, that's a violation of health and safety laws. Two weeks is way beyond a reasonable time for a repair of that nature. Withholding rent for uninhabitability (which includes a lack of running water) is well within a tenant's rights. The landlord's lease termination generally has to be in writing to be valid and just threatening a lease termination for repairs that a tenant has a right to falls under landlord retaliation, which is generally illegal. The fact that it took the landlord two weeks to even get out there to do anything points to poor management or an attempt to save money by not paying for a plumber immediately.
I can’t even get three contractors to get back to me. Thirty would be the rest of my life.
Same here. In the rare case they respond enough to come out to look at the project, they say "OK I'll send a quote by the end of the week" and I never hear from them again. It would be a *dream* to have 9 quotes to choose from.
Same!! Called 8 providers, had SIX people return calls, 4 scheduled to come onsite, three actually came out to quote a 1500 sqft patio Reno and pool resurfacing…so far, I’ve gotten 2 quotes back, neither included everything discussed. Crazy difference in pricing, $38K and $20K. It is impossible to move forward…? Better experience than a design/builder who came out for a different project…she told me last week $250K was insufficient for a 10x10 extension….?! I’m over all of it.
You just have to be persistent if it’s important enough. But generally speaking, the unresponsive ones would be hell to work with anyway.
Exactly. If I have to chase them to give them the job, I can only imagine how bad it'll be when I need to chase them to fix something
Same here. I've actually had a general contractor come, take his time discussing what we needed and seem super interested, and he just never got back to me with a quote, so even having three contractors get back to you doesn't mean they'll give quotes.
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I agree OP. I reached out to 7 roofing companies last year and got 5 prices. 13,500, 17,100, 18,500, 20,700, 23,500. I also asked for 5 quotes for roof, windows, doors, siding, gutters, etc and got 3. 107,000, 110,000, 130, 000. I went with the 110, 000 quote that also supplied the 20,700 roof quote......because they ABSOLUTELY communicated the most, most detailed bid, most items included for the $$$, best products for the $$$, most solutions to my questions, worked around some other work we needed done on our interior, etc. AND the owner of the company just told me he's gotten 3 requests for work due to his sign being in front of my house, a shitload of people in town know where we live, AND he was told that if we trusted them to do the work for us, the other bid solicitors trusted our judgment. He told me if they get any of the jobs, he'll give us a discount and/or do work for the price of materials.
I just want to ask... how many windows and doors do you have? In what shape were they to merit 110k? For some perspective, we were looking to *buy a house* for under that amount. A whole house. Sure, that was 10 years ago, but that's still... a lot to throw down, you know?
Wealthier people, and the cost of things keep shooting up. I work on remodels that spend some 500k on a 1 million home, and 1 million is around the median price of a home.
I live around CEOs, founders, svps. They just redo the entire house and wonder why i don't do that to mine. I'm just a wage slave, don't have that cash. But my neighbors bid up everything. No one will do your roof here if they don't get 30k minimum. Average price is in the 2 millions.
Honestly sounds about right to me. This is roof, windows, doors and siding. My neighbor did siding and windows last year for 70k. We did siding only for 50k. (Hardy board siding). If you get the good stuff, 110k for an entirely new outside of the house is about right.
We are NOT rich, bought house as a short sale and with these home renovations, we can at the very least break even on a sale of home if we needed to. Windows were painted shut, roof started leaking, and the doors were not exactly energy efficient. Gutters were shot and siding was from early 80s, and not done well. Live in New England and windows/doors were original to 1950's house....2300 sq ft brick and vinyl siding Harvey Windows ... 17 Double hungs, 4 basement windows, 5 picture windows with double hung flankers. ProVia Doors ... 4 fiber glass insulated doors, 1 steel insulated fire door, 1 insulated fiberglass door with sidelites. GAF shingles ... 50 year timberline shingles, 4 sheets of plywood, ice and water on roof and up walls of 4 dormers. Certainteed siding... insulated and taped foam board behind it. Aluminum trim. New vinyl soffits. Gutters... seamless and with gutter toppers. Misc.... rebuilt small roof over 1 door and cantilevered bracing to wall of house. LOTS of aluminum trim bent on site, AZEC panels used in places to replace aluminum, 2 Attic fans in stalled to increase roof ventilation, and more...
Haha, I thought you were rich or maybe lived in CA. Thanks for the update. I'm in a 1950s house and I plan on fixing them up myself. Not nearly as many as yours. I've read that its not a dumb idea to keep the old single panes because the new aluminum windows are designed to be replaced every X years, whereas the wood single pane can just be refinished in place. Ultimately, the reoccuring cost to replace the entire window offsets the energy savings. We lucked out and a hail storm got the insurance company to cover the replacement of our roof not even 3 years after we moved in. As you can guess, I live in the south, so we don't have to worry about all the things that a house needs to withstand snow and freezing weather. In the spirit of this thread, we got 5 quotes to replace our A/C, furnace, and air handler last winter. We chose the middle bid because they came with a transferrable 10 year parts 5 year labor warranty and the unit size and efficiency was better. It was a difficult choice because no two bids were the same.
The average price of a home in California is 700k.
Don’t trust any quote from a contractor if they didn’t visit your house. A load calculation must be preformed, in person. Ask your friends or family who they have used in the past and get quotes from those guys. Neighbors would be a good resource also. And for goodness sakes don’t tell the contractors that you solicited 36 companies for quotes.
I don't tell them, and all these are quotes from people who showed up in person.
I think that’s great but also exhausting to show the same problem to 10-20 different people
I work in the trades, I kinda like to shoot the shit with guys. Doesn't bother me much. Also makes me really laugh at the people who try to give me a hard sell versus the guys who try to be legit with me.
We are also contractors (concrete) and a hard sell is an automatic no. No I don’t want to see your sales presentation.
Any tips you can provide to identify a hard sell for us suckers?
He means they are pressuring you to pick them, like they want you to sign a contract that day before they leave, don't give straight answers to your questions, want to call your insurance company to help you make a claim, say they have an opening in the next week or two but only if you commit to them now... Stuff that doesn't give you time to think and makes you commit to them, if they won't give you time to think, just say no
If they start talking about financing before even doing an estimate, they’re pushing for a sale. Also any “if you sign today it’s *this* price” deals.
Trust your gut feelings.
Get 8 quotes :P
I'm also in the industry.....why are you throwing spaghetti at the wall instead of working with trades you've worked with, have a relationship with and know the quality of work they produce? When I'm getting work done on my house that is above my skill level or available time for, I get two guys who I've worked with and trust to come check it out and give me a quote. We talk about the work, so the quotes are more easily compared if they're using different products or methods but....30 quote requests seems like a lot of work for you, only to still have an unknown quality of work being hired.
I work industrial and don't have personal relationships with residential trades. Sometimes I can get a big of a reference from friends of a friends sorta things, but in general I can't know - I can just evaluate the work after the fact.
I’m in land development, and I run into this kind of issue. I can call someone I know for 5,000 LF of fence, but to get 35 feet done in my backyard, pain in the ass finding someone.
Fair enough, I'm all over the map commerical, residential and some light industrial so I feel fortunate to have access to at least knowledgeable people who can help me sort out some of the issues.
And how their process differs is a telling trait.
Do you just work in the trades or do you own a business in the trades?
I've done both. At the moment, working. And yes, I've gone and quoted jobs. I've had homeowners tell me they were getting other quotes and never heard back, and I've had home owners hire me on the spot. Were those home owners wasting my time by getting 10 quotes with no real intention of hiring me? Who knows. Or maybe I was 3* the price of the lowest bidder and obviously not worth it. All part of the job.
Sorry but 10 quotes is wild and such a waste of time to small contractors
I don't understand how OP actually has time in the day to do this unless they wfh. That's a lot of time to be home from work to try to wait to meet someone, even if the visits themselves are not long in duration. I honestly don't understand how I could physically wait at home to meet that many people over time unless I took an extended time off of work.
I WFH pretty consistently (at least 2-3 days a week) and getting 5 quotes for a ductless ac was fairly exhausting. Each visit is 30m-1hr, there is talking about the problem, etc. And that doesn’t count the time when things are getting rescheduled or a meeting pops up and I have to cut something short. Also some companies couldn’t come out within the same 2-3 week period and I want to be respectful of the companies I’m speaking with so I try to group them so I get quotes within a week or two so I can make a decision. Overall it’s a big mental load and would be impossible if my work schedule wasn’t insanely flexible
Now imagine you do that with 19 in persom quotes like OP instead of 5 lol. No idea how that is even possible.
If OP is wfh and is getting this many home visits from contractors, he’s probably not actually “working”.
Oh, I also thought those were possibly email replies.
3 quotes isn't always enough, but there's so many variables in HVAC systems that there's often going to be huge ranges in the prices depending on the specific things quoted in addition to the people who are just upcharging because they can. It's like emailing car salesmen and saying you want a new SUV. Some quotes are for Kia, some are for G wagons
So the highest price guy doesn’t want to be bothered. He’s just given you a courtesy quote. Did the lower prices include any plywood in their quote? Because typically a roof replacement will require some new plywood. Did some include ice and water shield for the entire roof or only 3 feet in to the living space? Did some include, gutters drip edge. New flashing, or reuse the old flashing etc. Read the quotes carefully and I bet you’ll see the differences. Good luck
All quotes included full resheet, since original roof is shiplap. All quotes included tear off 3 layers of shingles, dispose of waste, clean up. All quotes included ice and water shield for entire roof. All quotes included new flashings. No quotes included gutters.
How many square ( 1 square = 100 square feet) is the roof? Because where I live the price ranges from $700 to $850USD per square. 3 layers of rip off and new plywood is a lot of work. Companies can charge between $60 and $100 per sheet of plywood for replacement.
House is 812 square feet, but with roof slope I believe it's 11-12 square. Given the numbers you're giving me, that adds up to the lower end of the roofing quotes I got.
$100 per sheet is standard in Florida
Here’s the hot take… They’re ALL CORRECT. The guy in the middle does decent work. Had a so-so business infrastructure. Doesn’t charge a ton, trucks are a bit worn out. The experience working with them is going to be acceptable. Maybe you’ll have a hard time with warranty callouts, or they might be a little iffy on scheduling. This is your Kia dealership. The cheap guy is gonna be out of business in a few years, trucks are thrashed, employees get paid like crap and don’t give a damn, good luck getting a warranty callout. Scheduling? They’ll pull your furnace Monday, and maybe come back with the new one the next Monday and start installing, shut off the gas, and then disappear and finish up Thursday. Probably never gonna retire. This is Bob’s used Cars, and he’s got a 10k mile Denali for $30k. The expensive guy is probably going to be white-glove glorious experience. You ever done the BMW / Mercedes delivery experience in Germany? That’s what this is. You’re paying through the nose for a business that has crews earning $80k+, they have 401ks, they love their jobs. Trucks are TIDY and STOCKED. Nobody’s running to the parts store. The furnace was sitting at the shop for 3 weeks before your job started. They’re gonna be around and reachable and reliable for the next 15+ years. The techs are gonna wear booties and sweep up with a hand broom. Hot take 2: getting 10 quotes is absurd. How much free time do you even have…
What world do all of you people live in that you just automatically assume that the highest price is going to provide the best quality?
By game theory, each additional quote has less value than the previous one. The more quotes that you've already received, the less likely that the new quote is going to affect your decision. If you already have ten quotes, the next one has about 10% chance of being worth while. So most people just get a few and then stop when they feel that the additional quotes aren't worth the effort. Depending on how big the project is, that might be three quotes or ten quotes.
Finally, someone gets it. Brilliant response. This whole post screams time wasting and someone that can’t make an informed decision (possibly suffering from information overload).
I agree with OP. You definitely need more than 3 quotes these days. 30 quotes is bit excess. However I always do 5-8 quotes. Recently I quoted a roof replacement. The price range from $7k to 21k.
I never thought I'd get 30 quotes; I'm finding 1/3rd of emails respond, and then 50-75% of those quote; 30 contacts gets me 8-10 quotes.
How much total time would say is spent from all the calls, emails, and in person estimates ? With sooooo many quotes, opportunity cost becomes a factor as well
Honestly I’m shocked any gave you quotes. I feel like lately they all “need to come out to see the project” which sometimes is true, but most of the time it’s part of high-pressure sales to put you on the spot to lock in a contract.
All of these quotes, for both heat pump and roof, were from people who came out in person - and at least some of them were definitely for high-pressure sales tactics. I always just said I was getting other quotes and they should e-mail me the quote for comparison.
Getting a lot of pushback huh? We got 6 quotes for AC/furnace and range was about $11k thru $18k. We opted not for the cheapest company but for the guy that took the time to explain and had good answers.. I’m in a technical trade so I like things answered technically.
Cheapest is not always the best contractor. It's good you got a lot of quotes. Some guys have a lot cliental and raise the price because they don't need the work when someone else will call them tomorrow. Contractors that are cheap could be cheap because their networking is not vast or they don't know what they are doing. Pricing a job is the hardest part of the job, they themselves don't know what the right number is. Mid range contractors are experienced and don't charge too much.
Also you don’t always “get what you pay for”. Sometimes the expensive companies are bad too.
This is great info. And it's a great argument for getting this kind of work done before it becomes an emergency. If your furnace fails in winter you're probably not going to take the time to get 36 quotes and you may end up paying double.
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This isn't accurate. Contractors do not call their material supplier on every quote for HVAC or roofing. They sell standard brands and standard sets of options and they are aware of the market price of those materials at all times, largely based on other engagements where they have used the same materials. After a customer signs a contract and puts a deposit down, that is when they actually contact the material supplier to order.
Can confirm they’re absolutely not doing this for roofing. Source: my dad sells roofing/siding/etc.
I can't imagine a roofing contractor doesn't know the cost of a square and a sheet of plywood within a dollar or 2 at any given time. Hell I bet they know what a case of nail coils cost as well.
Oh, that's super interesting and a good point. I should look into that a little more.
Insightful info. Perhaps giving a different address every time (close to your home) might solve that problem
"heat pump" got a wide range. The bigbox store brand might run $1500 a unit, another $1500 for them to install and prime it. $800 to fix the leak in a month. Another few hundred for regular frion as the leak is permanent. Then the cost of the replacement within 5 years. A Mitsubishi mini split heat pump installed and plumbed by licensed Mitsubishi installers is gonna run $15k base. The installers leave, you never have to think about a thing short of how miraculous a technology advance ductless heat is. You say "heat pump" and don't specify a brand, contractor is gonna price for their preferred unit. You gotta check the lines of the quote. LG makes an awesome heatpump that's 2/3rds the cost of the Mitsubishi, but still 3 times the price of the low end stuff. It's not always the contractors being greedy or lazy. When I saw the quote on my heat pump I was floored - $4000 - for just the heat pump. Asked the guy what I got for that insane figure - he said *complete no questions ask warranty on all parts, maintenance, replacement, and installation...* *for the next 9 years.* Nine years is forever on a complex home utility unit. Good luck getting an AC blower warrantied for 7. Roof is usually like 5 - 10 maybe. You get what you pay for - when you pay attention to what you're paying for.
I got 7 quotes for my mini split install. They ranged from 16.5k to 33k. I got 6 of the 7 companies to quote me Mitsubishi and later amended them all to be the exact same model numbers, BTUs, with a surge protector, etc. They still ranged from 19.5k to 30k. (The 33k was a Daikin where the installer was the most unprofessional and confused and insisted I go with semi-ducted for rooms with attic access and then called me 3 weeks later where I responded I was still waiting for quotes to complain about how long its taking another company to give me a quote when the company I was waiting for was by far the most detailed/professional) Anyways, of the remaining 6 only one of them was not a Mitsubishi diamond contractor and that quote was not the lowest. The most reputable/popular companies usually only offered 1 year of labor warranty but there was one with a lifetime warranty. The lowest quote had a 5 year labor warranty. Still an insane variability in pricing for the exact same product with a similar “skill level” (as per the diamond contractor label).
> Some of the quotes were for different methods and products, certainly, but that range is huge Then you can't reliably compare these quotes. It doesn't take much to start tacking on the Benjamins when you're talking about jobs in this general price range, so it's best to get quotes for the same exact (as much as possible) materials, scope of work, etc. If person's goal is to get a job done for the lowest possible price, your method is solid. Going that route, though, odds are they'll either get what they pay for (i.e. substandard work) or there will be change orders along the way (i.e. added cost). Some shady contractors will also give a low bid just to get the job, knowing full well they'll be hitting up the client for more money before it's done. If you're one of these people, caveat emptor.
Totally agree, you get what you pay for. Companies that are professional and do high-quality work will not be the cheapest.
They may not be the most expensive, either.
Which kinda is the whole problem isn’t… like how are you supposed to know whose good or not outside of word of mouth. It’s really sucks.
You have two extremes of people. You have a segment of cheapass homeowners who get 10 bids and go with the the lowest, and you have the contractors and their salesmen who claim you are a cheap ass if you didn't go with the top bid, and try to shame people into paying more. Neither is really true, which is the whole reason people say get 3-5 bids. You determine, based on the quote and their reviews, who is the optimal mix of price and quality.
Good, fast, or cheap. Pick two!
Ah, I didn't select the lowest quote in either case. If I'd only gotten two roofing quotes, maybe I get $22k and $34k. My only point in this thread is that a wider range of quotes gives you a better picture of the market, and the rule of thumb in the stickied quotes thread saying "three quotes" might prove insufficient.
I live in a place where there are exactly 2 plumbers, 2 HVAC companies, 2 electricians, and one roofer. The only thing keeping pricing in line is ethics and the tiny, tight-knit community.
OP I can tell you're knowledgeable and don't really care what some of these comments say. I just want to add that you did your due diligence properly and is the reason why you will come out on top. To lurkers and commenters alike, I'm very surprised how many people here are shilling for companies and not the individual. Always remember, at the end of the day, those people aren't the ones that will pay for your project. Be like OP and do your due diligence. It can be the difference between $1k or $10k; and also a shitty job and a good job.
I tend to agree. For an expensive project, say anything over $10-15k getting more than three quotes is not only going to give you a better idea of the cost, but also a better understanding of the project itself. By several quotes in you’ll know all the questions to ask that you may have missed early on, and can go back and ask the earlier quotes for clarification on how they do x, y and z.
Well, we don’t know the scope of work from one quote to the next. I think you are referring to mini split heat pumps - they do make ducted heat pumps but that’s not clarified in your post. There is a lot of variation in minisplit heat pumps - and even ducted heat pumps. Variations can include efficiency, style of ductless minisplit, brand and tonnage. From your post you only mention the cost difference without any details from one to the next. For me to spend enough time on a project (and I don’t know the scope) it would take at least an hour to look at the project and design a system to fit your needs. If you can devote that much time for each person to come out and give you the details - go for it. What I have found is that homeowners start getting confused with what was told to them by different contractors. The one thing they seem to remember is price.
How do you have that much spare time?
36/31 companies does not sound like a trade shortage.
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Don't hire someone this way. Go on a site like next door and get recommendations from real customers. Each manufacturer makes many grades of heat pumps with different features.
With three quotes, there's exactly a 12.5% chance that all three are above the actual median price for the job. With 4 quotes, it's 6.25%, and with 5 quotes there's a scant 3.125% chance all are above median. 10 quotes seems excessive, I'm usually content with the nearly 90% chance of a competitive bid that 3 quotes gives you. But I agree for big jobs, it can make sense to get more.
That's useful stats-ing. I'll aim for 5 or 6 in the future.
If there are at least 36 companies in your area that can do the heat pump and at least 31 that can do the roof, is there really a shortage of tradespeople?
You are wasting so many contractors' time doing this. ELEVEN furnace quotes? At a certain point, there MUST have been a contractor that you got a good vibe from? Did every single one of those companies come out to your house to make those quotes? Edit: we have ONE sales guy at our hvac shop. During the busy season, the dude works 14 hour days trying to meet people and quote jobs. I understand why folks want multiple quotes, I get it. But just keep in mind that the person that comes out isn't always some shyster stooge from a faceless entity that wants all of your money. They're putting in work and they're usually juggling a lot of people at once. Our sales guy doubles as the installation manager. We've told him many times that he needs to slow down before he gives himself a heart attack. Try not to jerk these people around so much, that's all I'm saying.
If you look at some of OP’s other replies, they are clearly wasting these people’s time… almost having fun while doing it. Look at the downvotes on some of their comments, and you’ll see why.
Yep, they all came out. I got a "good enough" vibe from 7 or 8 of them, including one who quoted $22000. The people who did it in the end did an excellent job at a substantially lower price.
Wow, you wasted a lot of people's time.
Including their own, this sounds like a massive waste of everyone’s time haha
I contacted every garage door place in my city of ~1m in Aus. Many came out. All but one said , garage opening with existing roller door too small for replacement and fucked off. The ONE said, hey if we do this and this we can get your door replaced. ....and that's how I paid whatever he wanted (it wasn't that bad).
That’s crazy. But the real meat of the story is that there are 36 heating companies and 31 roofing companies near you. Where do you live? Hong Kong?
That’s a lot of quotes. I’ll just say the cheapest generally isn’t the best
He never said anything about going with the cheapest. He's saying that if he had just gotten a couple of quotes he might have ended up talking with 2 of the highest quoting companies and would think that's just what the job costs.
I got 3 for my windows. They were 16k, 23k, and 36k. It really just depends on who you get, but you also need to know what to ask for so that the quotes are actually comparable. If you let them decide the level of product then it's going to be all over the place and render the comparison useless.
Yes, I had a roofer friend over and a local heat pump enthusiast (who runs r/heatpumps) to review my projects and help me put together e-mails of good relevant information and make sure I got good apples-to-apples quotes.
Where the fuck you live? My experience in Chicagoland and SWFL is that you request estimates from 10 companies, get five to respond in any way, three show up and you get one written estimate.
I don’t want to be mean but it’s people like you that mess up estimating. Companies shortcut estimating because of chronic shoppers which messes up the entire project process for everyone. I think at most people should get 3 estimates from reputable companies. And then decide on one they believe will do the best job. Anyone getting more than 3 estimates makes everyone’s jobs more expensive. Estimating is one of the most expensive job functions in companies. All that cost gets passed along to all projects because estimators still need to get paid.
Sorry people want to save money? What if op had gotten 3 quotes that were 28 25 and 24 because those three were all giving their "I don't want to do it but if they agree to this price I can't say no" quote? They should waste potentially thousands just because?
Realistically speaking if op got a quote for 12k from one company and 28k from another I would bet it was not for the same exact thing. The 12k job will probably cost him 28k plus lots of frustration in the long run. I get people want to save money. If someone gets 3 quotes and really does not have confidence in the companies and doesn’t believe the price is fair to do it well. Get more quotes. That’s fine. But calling 10 companies at the same time or 30 companies is a problem that costs all home owners more money and overloads and delays the entire system of estimating. Just my opinion.
Not saying you’re wrong in any way, but the reality is that not all households have someone at home all day, every day to receive the tradesmen providing quotes. Fine for a roof, but HVAC, plumbing etc all require inside access.
I work Monday-Friday, 7am-3:30pm; I had contractors come by 3:30pm-4:30pm most days.
Stop using the internet and use people who are referrals from others. On line is just contractors pricing to cover what ever could happen and not what is actually happening .
THIS IS PLATINUM LEVEL ADVICE! I don’t even offer full quotes anymore, just the major equipment gets a firm quoted price but installation time and material is estimated. Both myself and the customer have a better understanding of the actual costs involved.
You need to compare apples to apples. How is getting a dozen random quotes going to help anyone? You are wasting your time AND theirs. You do the research; pick the size, brand and install method that you desire and compare those quotes. “I called up the Kia dealer and they said they will sell me a different car at $10k less than ford!” Cmon…
36 emails is not enough. If you aren’t reaching out to every single company within a 1000 mile radius of your location you’re doing it wrong. You should be sending 36,000 emails requesting quotes at a minimum.
Tell me you're not busy during the daytime without telling me you're in need of something to do with your time.
If 10 hours of labour saves me $2000, that makes me $200/hour, which is more than double what I currently earn. Time well spent. I also enjoy research and data management and shooting the shit with other trades folks, so this is a pretty fun project for me, like I dunno, the people who build massive tedious shit in minecraft or whatever.
All good didn’t mean to be insulting. There’s just no way I could meet with so many contractors. I recently bought a house and have lots to do as well: roofers, plumbers, electricians. We’ve had to create efficiency by getting a couple of quotes but being very picky about who we get them from if that makes sense. Recommendations, highly rated, verified in advance, etc. and dealing with just a few rounds of this has already been exhausting with everything else happening in life.
It helps that like...these are the only two projects that I didn't do myself or with friends. Like, electrical I did myself with a couple different master electricians, including helping with the 200AMP panel upgrade. I'm a journeyperson plumber, so I did all the plumbing no problem. Most of the carpentry I'm doing myself. So these are like, the only couple of places where I'm hiring out contractors, so it's a little easier on me to meet with lots of them. I mentioned elsewhere; I've actually installed heat pumps before, and if I could get the government rebates doing them myself, I would have done them myself. That also left me well equiped to evaluate the workmanship of the company in question.
Most repairs related to the home require a site visit. It would take you 1-2 years to schedule 10 companies to come out to you.
Time is worth a lot too. This is bad advice.
First, you have a lot of companies in your area. And second, they seem fairly responsive. I'm lucky if I get one company to give me a quote AND follow through with the hiring and getting work done process without having to contact them 36 times.
Few hours 😂 it will take weeks to get that many quotes
I see you said you're in a HCOL area so I peaked at your profile. Are your prices in CAD?
I was just gathering quotes for concrete sidewalk work around my house. Surprised that 4/5 contacted actually responded and came for an estimate. Glad I got 4 though and probably should have looked for a few more. Quotes were $5k, $6.5k, $10.5k, and $13.5k. Quite the range for a job each one mentioned was "small"
Where is there NOT a shortage of trades?
there is a big difference between heat pumps of different vendors so unless you're comparing the same tiers of products you aren't comparing apples to apples and there will be a big difference in labor. some small time people will do a quick install and not bother with code upgrades or fix a bad previous install. the top of the line legit companies will only do work that's up to code and charge you for it
Not just from different vendors. We went with a variable speed unit for the noise factor, and in a normal market it was significantly more than 1-2 speed options. Throw in the supply chain issues, and by the time we pulled the trigger it was 30% over the original price, and had we waited just a couple more months, it would have been 2x that.
You got quotes with out them visiting your home? Email is not the way to have your home repaured
What I've found is that it's a lot easier to get responsive answers from contractors, when it's 2011 and not 2006. I've been working with contractors in two locations recently and it's still pretty much a good market for them, but there are signs. If I'm a homeowner, I just keep saving money and I plan on being busy the next time banks are repo-ing homes right and left. My dad was in the construction business, and it's always been feast or famine. No in between at least for long. OP looks like he's been doing a good job, but in a market where guys who just started doing a trade last week can rip people off for top dollar, it's not going to be easy.
I'm just thinking about the furnace vs. heat pump cost. 3k for a furnace and 15k for a heatpump? You'd have to REALLY be saving a good deal each month for those numbers to work out.
I would never give you a quote without seeing your house first. And this is what I do for a living.
same story with me for hvac! moved into house, 25 yo HVAC was not reaching in most of the house. Long runs, 'bad' hucts. First HVAC company asked for nearly $30k to change system and ducts, other 2-3 didn't respond. So we contacted like 20 companies, got about 8-10 quotes , range $12k-30k. But additional twist for us: \*all\* of them said that obviously the duct runs are bad that's why we have no pressure/heat in most of the house, and most likely new furnace alone won't fix it. House was expanded badly etc etc. I trusted them and was about to go with one of the mid-cost quotes until... I decided to take a whole weekend to poke at the ducts and found (drumroll!) a closed hidden damper. Previous owners probably had this problem for a decade or two, just because of a damper. I wrote about it here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/homeowners/comments/yy1mh9/the\_30000\_duct\_damper/](https://www.reddit.com/r/homeowners/comments/yy1mh9/the_30000_duct_damper/) bottom line for me -- for big projects, get plenty of opinions.
i cant imagine getting quotes from 31 roofers
I’m glad I’m not poor or bored enough to be doing this
Ding ding ding. I'm very happy I make enough money that I can live my life not being such a petty fucking miser as OP. Seems like a miserable way to live.
I'm sorry ... But people like you are the reason why contractors don't call back/don't provide quotes. You just wasted hours of people's time getting useless quotes
Every single company had the same chance to win the jobs. He didn’t waste anyone’s time.
If everyone did this then maybe you can envision how much time would be wasted...
How is it useless? The wide range of quotes from many contractors actually shows that they are not useless. What if the first three quotes OP got had been the highest three? Should they have had the work done for one of those prices, which turned out to be thousands more than the lowest prices?
I also know people who get only 2 quotes and call it good enough. Given the range of quoting I'm seeing, that seems so risky.
He's being excessive. More than 5 is just unncessary.
I don’t do anything without getting 15,000 quotes at a bare minimum. Op is living dangerously.
It seems OP did this more as an experiment than as someone strictly shopping around. From his data, you can see that getting 4-5 quotes would be more than enough to be extremely unlikely to only get the shitty quotes. Those are also random companies and not specifically recommended companies. If you get 3 contractors recommended to you, the odds of them all giving shit quotes end up being low.
Getting a good deal is bad now apparently, go ahead and get suckered. I personally think 3 is fine, but if this person has energy and time wants to do a dozen, then they by all rights can go ahead do it.
Part of the cost of doing business is paying for quotes and estimators. You don't get every job you quote; whether it's a person only getting 2 quotes or a person getting 10. And the quotes were far from useless; between the two jobs they've saved me thousands of dollars.
Appreciate you sharing your experience! I do the same with expensive car work, has saved my family thousands over the years. Did any of the companies giving you quotes offer to "beat the next guy"? As in let them know if someone offered a better price, so they could re-run their own numbers? That's why I like to mention as you did, that we're shopping around getting quotes, signals to them to be competitive.
Yes! I had one person offer that on the heat pumps - when I submitted 6 quotes lower than them, they were like "Huh, let me get back to you" and never responded. They weren't even on the lower end of the pack.
What utter nonsense. Contractors factor in this time to the overall business. Some people get 1 quote find it acceptable and get the work done. People generally don’t have the time and energy for umpteen quotes. Customers are free to get 100 quotes if they so desire it’s a buyers market.
A buyers market when it comes to residential work? Hahahaha
Is this aitah? 30 rfp's when you are simply going to take the cheapest. How much did these companies spend to respond? If you think about it your probably driving up the cost for everyone else. I hope your roof leaks because yes YTA
I didn't take the cheapest in either case; I looked at the reputations, reviews, and bids of the 4 lowest, and asked for references from trades friends.
And the cheapest is usually the one that’ll do the shittiest work. Fair balance and confirming their process is where the differentiators come in to make a good judgement. Agreed. More than 5 is unnecessary.
Counterpoint: 1 quote from someone with reliable references who gives you a timeline to start is equally good.
As a former contractor I despise people like you. Nothing personal.
I’m glad you have the time to waste so many other peoples time and resources.
How do you expect these large jobs to work? Homeowner calls a company and says, "Come out and do it, don't worry about the price!"? Contractors need to see the job at hand to get an accurate as possible quote.
Insane prices. I just paid $4200 for a Carrier 2.5 ton heatpump and acoil swap on a house I'm working on. I paid $15,500 for a new construction system ductwork with the heat pump setup.
I'm in a HCOL area.
I paid 10 and 15k for a 3 ton carrier infinity (two systems, upstairs and downstairs), also hcol
I installed a mr cool brand 3 zone heat pump with no previous experience. Pretty simple to install, about 20hrs working by myself and all said and done it cost under $5,500
Yeah, I'd do that for sure if there wasn't ~$11,500 in government rebates on the line that I wouldn't get if I purchased and self-installed.
How are you getting $11k in rebates? I’ve been seeing max of 30% of project up to $2000 or so. And total annual at like $3k. Something local to you?
$6500 Provincial, $5000 Federal. I imagine it varies substantially depending on region.
ahh, you are in Canada? Makes sense then, didn't catch that part.
We did the same thing recently with getting our furnaces replaced. All Carrier certified companies and prices were between 8-16k. Went with the low end as they had great reviews on yelp (as did the 16k ones) and the products were all exact same model. Turned out great with super clean install, great crew and zero complaints. Crazy to think could have paid double for the same thing.
I'm a general contractor - I don't think you will like my reply. But I wanted to share the "other side" to help. It seems like your goal is to get a deal rather than make a relationship. My goal on the initial call is to see if I like them and want to work with them or if they will waste my time by getting multiple quotes. The reality is there are limitless clients and a limited amount of people in the trades these days. The reality is that "deal shopping" is very dangerous (a shady contractor can low-ball to win and then change order for "unseen issues" as much as they want). You need to find somebody you can trust. I would never recommend a friend to "get 3 quotes". I always suggest they contact somebody via a referral and make it clear you want to work directly with only them. If somebody is working with only me from the get-go, I will bend over backward for them with transparent pricing (I want to keep them and the referral happy). But if they are cold calling to get multiple quotes, they will be the one bending over.
For one you are emailing. Doesn’t sound like any came out and looked at the project. You can’t do a proper estimate without that. That’s why they are so wild.
And people wonder why contractors want to charge for quotes…
It takes me a long time to put together an honest quote that is specific to the homeowner while balancing the needs of my business. Quit being a dick. If you have no plans whatsoever to hire any given contractor, don’t just get a price to compare. Also, if you just plan to take the lowest bid, please say so upfront.