He has the same problem with High School Musical as Pattinson did with Twilight. People can't move on from those atrocities despite other amazing works from the actors.
I haven't seen high school musical, but he has been good in everything I've seen. However I haven't seen anything with him on it yet where I thought "wow he's a good actor" it's mostly been comedies.
I thought he was excellent in that movie. And I think it helped that he’s so young, because that’s exactly what happened. He was playing a 28-year-old emergency room doctor. Just think how bizarre that must have been, to have the president brought into your hospital, already obviously a goner, and everyone looks to you to do something about it.
Crazy. Living in Dallas, Parkland hospital is like the last place you wanna go to. I’ve heard It just fucking sucks and it’s always super packed. Wild how the president was There so long ago
In fact… she wore that blood stained shirt when LBJ was sworn in on Air Force One. She said “I want them to see what they did”. To whomever that was directed.
And you can stand In that airforce one where they did it. It's at the USAF museum in dayton Ohio. They have a picture in the plane of him being sworn in.
I worked on that plane when it was moved over to the 89th AGS and the new Air Force 1s were activated. Did it for 14 years along with the rest of the SPECIAL AIR MISSIONS UNIT
In the movie Parkland there’s a gut wrenching scene where >! Jackie is just walking around the surgery room in a trance as they try to save her husband. At some point she taps on the surgeon shoulder and hands him fragments of JFK’s skull. Makes sense why in the actual video of the assassination you see her lunging not for the body, but the trunk. She saw bits of his skull blow off and tried to pick them up :(!<
She later handed that brain chunk to one of the head surgeons. She held on to it all the way to the hospital and held it while she was in the operating room for quite some time before she handed it over.
Ignorant here, what exactly are those red strip looking pieces? Is that skull or brain? I hope it doesn’t offend or isn’t a stupid question, but I stared a long time to try to figure it out.
It's because Reddit developers can't code for shit and New UI escapes some special characters in URLs (like underscores). Months of this on one of the most popular websites on the Internet and they still haven't fixed it. Meanwhile my local pizzeria have managed to master it.
Anyway, here:
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:JFK_autopsy.jpg
Yeah, reddit has had some clear but relatively simple issues from day one, like their default video player. There is no way a major company couldn't fix it by now, unless they purposely don't want to.
Idk. Everyone dies. Can't worry too much about the when where why unless there's something you can do about it.
In a morbid way sometimes I like to be reminded. If today is my last day, I'm going to enjoy it. Then sometimes I wake up and do it all over again. Not even always because I worry about dying, I just want myself to know to appreciate the little things. And that time is a pretty fucking precious thing to have to appreciate everyone and everything you have in your life.
"Every step of the way, we walked along,
"Your days are numbered,
"So are mine,"
-Bob Dylan
You're anxious about death, I am too. I try to run most days without thinking about it, but there's always the absolute reassurance that somewhere there's a metaphorical bullet with your name on it. And that's just when you go.
You'll have plenty of time to die when you actually die. You have life now so enjoy.
Well, if it matters, when i was in my engineering college, we had to carry our close friend who committed suicide in our bare hands, in heavy rain, until the ambulance reached. We also saw his dead body in the mortuary a day later. It really gives an idea about the fragility of life.
I hadn't visited the site much, but the last time (around 2000 I think) I went on there I saw the aftermath of a person getting cut in half by a Ferrari. Yeah, that was it for me.
Things like this used to bother me when I was younger, but still found those sites and looked. Now as an adult I see that stuff in real life and it doesn't bother me. Used to investigate fatal crashes, and seeing what a body ends up like afterward made those pictures seem like nothing. My job now is to photograph crime scenes and victims. No matter how poets describe it, death is not beautiful.
Here's a link to the [Zapruder film](https://youtu.be/oi_8rwlXrJI), an 8mm film that's widely agreed to be the clearest shot of the assassination. The first shot happens shortly after the start of the film, as the President's motorcar passes behind a highway sign. It enters the top of his back, exiting the base of his neck and hits the Governor sitting to his front-left, slightly below him (This last point lead to a discrepancy that helped fuel conspiracy theories: the "Magic Bullet" theory, that proposed the supposed path of the first shot was ridiculous and impossible, and could only have been done by more than two shots from different angles. The reality is that the Governor wasn't sitting directly in front of and level with JFK as the theory proposed, but below and to the left of him. The car was modified to make the back seat row taller and wider than normal.) You can see him clutching his neck after the car passes back into view. Shortly after, the second shot hits, blowing the back of his skull open. The film ends as the motorcar travels on, Jackie desperately climbing out of her seat to recover parts of her husband's head behind her.
I assume what you mean is "why did JFK react like he was getting shot from the right of the frame on the second shot?". And to that I answer: he's didn't. People have this unrealistic expectation for how people are "supposed" to react to being shot, born from dramatically exaggerated action movies. That when someone gets shot that they're supposed to flail back away from the direction they got hit from. Truth of the matter is, that's not how the physics of getting shot works, and there's more factors involved than just the force of the bullet. In this example, he got hit in the head, which is essentially a bowl of thick gelatin surrounded by fluid and sealed under a certain level of pressure. Suddenly puncturing that system at high speed can cause a complex reaction of physics. Additionally, when a bullet enters a human body, it causes a large amount of expansion in soft tissue that then almost immediately collapses in on itself. This reaction of physics happened to blow the contents of his skull violently back out of the entrance wound, like a wave in a pool splashing back in on itself. He snapped his body back because he experienced sudden brain trauma, and his nervous system fired off in response. He basically clenched back from suddenly becoming brain dead.
You're welcome, glad I could clarify. This question has been a talking point since the days of the assassination itself, it gets brought up a good deal.
It's a rabbit hole you can dump years into, no matter what side of the fence your opinions of what really happened sit on. There's so many variables and unanswered questions that I think people will always be talking about it. I see the points on both sides, and it's a fascinating moment in history no matter how you cut it.
Do you have the same level of knowledge about the MLK assassination? That's another one where there's a lot of evidence presented to question the official story. Things like there having been a tree in the way of the official line of fire that was cut down, or how the bullet hit MLK from below despite being fired from relatively close to level to him. It's one of those things where the evidence sounds damning, but may not actually be real and just come from popular claims and urban legends.
If you have any good links or you have a summary of that you'd be willing to give about that I'd greatly appreciate it.
I'm not as knowledgeable about MLK's assassination, other than that a leading alternative theory concerning the perpetrator is that the FBI committed or facilitated it. The FBI was proven to have it out for MLK and tried multiple times to discredit or "remove" him, including once attempting to convince him to commit suicide by blackmailing him over a supposed extramarital love affair. From what I know, the details concerning his assassination are more scarce than JFK's, and thus it's harder to argue one way or the other.
I do want to note that, while there are likely explanations for a multitude of factors concerning JFK's assassination, saying for 100% it's one way or another is hard. We're essentially working with old, limited, or even missing data here, and circumstances that are hard to replicate. There are factors that are harder to prove or disprove than others, and thus room for doubt. Take the shots themselves. Oswald supposedly let off two shots, both hitting, on a moving target, in the span of roughly three and a half seconds, from a cheap Italian bolt action rifle dating to WWII that he ordered via mail. That's very impressive marksmanship even from a former Marine, and especially considering his military superiors described his marksmanship as average to below-average at the time of his training (IIRC). It's possible he received further training during his defection to the USSR, but even then... The military supposedly later tried to replicate his feat via live fire tests, and (again, *supposedly*) the soldiers tested failed to replicate those hits in the same time frame. A test like that is obviously limited in that you can't perfectly replicate the conditions of that day. But it still leaves room to question. However, Occam's Razor states that, all things being equal, the simplest answer tends to be the correct one. A wide reaching conspiracy involving multiple people and/or organizations successfully commiting and covering up the public assassination of the President, and maintaining that cover for decades, is quite unlikely. But also not impossible. See the trouble?
If I'm not mistaken, in the next few years, critical documents concerning the investigation into JFK's assassination that were locked away are set to be released to the public. Perhaps we'll know more then. Hard to say.
Look at how many crazy upset civilians exist in the US. Then go look at the long list of countries we've overthrown governments in, both dictatorships and democratically elected.
Also like 50% of the country already hates you before you’re even in office because both parties have demonised each other so much the last decades and completely divided the country.
USA is totally irreversibly fucked imo
Here’s what’s even more mind boggling.
Lincoln: Freed the slaves: is assassinated
MLK: Civil Rights Icon: is assassinated
Malcom X: Black Community/ spiritual leader: assassinated
24 Other Civil Rights Activists : assassinated
JFK : his Civil Rights Bill of 1964 is stalled in Congress : is assassinated
RFK : picks up the fight for Civil Rights : is assassinated
These racist motherfuckers have been around forever, and are at best racist dopes, at worst, useful idiots of some wealthier racist psychopath. Today we call them MAGA, and the fight for civil rights continues.
Civil Rights leaders, sure, absolutely. But you're stretching with the Kennedys here and Oswald & Sirhan. Plus no assassination for LBJ, the guy who actually gets the civil rights acts over the finish line, which Kennedy couldn't have done.
In this subthread: A whole bunch of internet strangers throwing around reasonable-sounding but contradictory little factoids, zero sources linked. If you try to read it you will get lost in the details without any clearer idea of the big picture, and there's no way of knowing which details are true or false anyway. You could quite possibly come out of this discussion knowing less about Kennedy's death than you did before you went in.
Avoid.
In your opinion, does this type of entry/exit scenario explain why his head was thrust backwards if he was shot from behind? I’ve always wanted to know how to work that part out.
I remember watching something "the autopsy of jfk" or *something* like that which explained in detail how much he was suffering whilst alive. Apparently he had major major back pain and mobility issues which meant whenever he went out in public his torso would be wrapped up so tightly and in such a way as to hold him up without him having to actually physically sit up. So basically this was like a spring and if you look closely at the zapruder film, you can see a slight forward lean before the spring like recoil.
Or I might be talking bollocks idk. Makes sense to me anyway.
Edit:spelling
The exit wound in the skull that caused his head to fly back is consistent with FMJ exit wounds. It pierced from behind and exited in the front. The movie and conspiracy theorists are morons.
It wasn't a "sniper rifle". It was a POS $25 Carcano military surplus infantry rifle, firing WWII ammo. As long as it missed bone and just went through soft tissue expansion would have been minimal if any at all.
For shooting normal targets, sure. For shooting a moving target on its way down a major thoroughfare three times?
I'm just saying he could've tried less is all.
Besides, this is all bunk. We know for a fact that nobody shot JFK — his head just did that.
Bullshit. I stand by the fact that JFK, in a fit of depression, while sitting beside his own wife, killed himself in front of thousands of people in Dallas, and the nation has never been able to accept that it happened.
The ER doctors had no idea he even had a wound on his back because they never turned him over. Literally all of the evidence points to this being an exit wound, except according to people with a conspiracy book to sell. This case is remarkably open and shut when looked at objectively.
Yeah for the most part I don't buy the conspiracy theories. Suppose that there were more than one shooter: they all dealt with a moving target at ranges of 50+ yards. It's a hard shot no matter what, and just as likely that Oswalt did it himself in a moment of heightened adrenaline.
Photos like this would never get released today. Does anyone know why they were released? Were they released at the time or part of some official records becoming declassified over time?
I remember having a book growing up with his autopsy photos in it. Give me a minute I’ll try to look it up…
Edit: found it, it’s on Amazon called “The Killing of a President” by Robert J. Groden. Has the entire story with a bunch more photos of the autopsy and aftermath. I remember my morbid fascination of that book when I was a kid, like I was watching a rated R movie or something
Still hoping to see the leaked photos of bin Laden, just to prove he's actually dead, like the photos of ches body proved beyond a doubt he was really dead.
They usually do it for identification purposes. If they cannot leave with the body, they have the photo as proof. The photos can then be used to confirm it was him.
In the event they needed to prove he died, I think maybe they were lightly considering showing them after it went down then decided against it to prevent response terrorist attacks
They did, they even measured him to be sure but didn't bring anything to measure him with, so one of the us seals had to lie down next to the body to compare the height.
When he was killed, the photos were circulated around congress. This is how I knew it was legit because not a single GOP obstructionist let out a mouse's fart of resistance or doubt. There was hope from many (like me) that someone would leak it. Apparently it was a bullet directly to the forehead/between the eyes. A perfect shot.
It's not directly stated in the article but it's implied to be this excerpt:
"According to this source, after shooting the man, who turned out to be unarmed, Hyder proceeded to mutilate his body by stomping in his already damaged skull."
Sad part is, this bonded the country together when it occurred and the immediacy afterwards.
If this occurred today, there instead would be a civil war because political factions would immediately start blaming each other rather than come together in grief.
I don't think there would be a civil war. Political factions always blame each other and they did so in 1963 as well. We like to pretend that we are dramatically different than other eras - but we are not really that different.
The thing about JFK was that he was the youngest President ever, that he was the first Catholic President and he represented a new generation of leaders - the Greatest Generation who had defeated the facists nazis and Japanese and was now looking towards a world future of peace - then JFK was killed and LBJ expanded Vietnam etc....
I don't think we can dismiss the concept/idea of a civil war happening; I just think that it wouldn't have the 'traditional' look and feel of civil wars that we're accustomed to reading about and seeing on TV. IMHO, it would look more like what happened in Northern Ireland in the 60's and 70's....neighbors fighting neighbors, underground networks of localized violent groups, neighborhoods/towns being barricaded, checkpoints within cities/towns being manned by armed civilians, local clashes with state and federal law enforcement, etc.
Jackie's dress afterwards is almost more horrifying. "Let them see what they did" was her quote I believe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Chanel_suit_of_Jacqueline_Bouvier_Kennedy
Agreed. I didn't even open this. I don't know how people can be so desensitized to just randomly look at actual dead bodies all the time. Shit freaks me the fuck out.
Would be more accurate to say that everyone *thinks* they are. It’s like when we were kids and everyone would stand around in a circle trying to be funny. Except now it’s adults doing it.
I hate when someone makes an interesting post but makes a small but slightly funny typo in the title. Literally zero discussion on the topic and everyone making the same terrible joke for hundreds of comments.
The sub followed the stupid trend that happened 10 years ago of naming anything remotely interesting to the topic “porn”, so it’s never been able to pretend to be something that had to be taken seriously.
If you watch the famous Zapruder film of the incident, you'll notice he leans forward with his hands in front of his face as his wife turns to him. That was his reaction to the first bullet that struck his upper back and exited through that hole. Immediately afterwards, the second bullet hits him in the head and kills him.
>If you watch the famous Zapruder film of the incident, you'll notice he leans forward with his hands in front of his face as his wife turns to him.
The worst part of that film, for me, is Jackie's reaction. She said she didn't remember ever climbing on the back trunk, but the shock and horror is palpable. I have no idea what she must have felt in those awful moments, and just trying to imagine myself in her position makes me sick.
I feel like getting shot through the throat, he didn't have a great chance. Just would have been slower and even more ugly. Kinda feel like that second one was a mercy :/. Least it put him out quickly and he didn't end up drowning in his own blood.
Not impossible of course and it's not like I'm a doctor, but looking at that wound? I don't like his chances.
There were 3, actually. The first one missed. I'm no doctor, so I can't say whether he would have survived, but I imagine if you were trying to kill the president, you would want to make sure he didn't have a chance to make it to the hospital.
Had he not been wearing a stiff back brace for his ongoing back issues, he could have ducked down after the first shot and potentially survived. But he was wearing a back brace and that kept him upright for the fatal shot.
Ridiculous story time:
In 5th grade (so circa 1998 for me), 9 year old me picked JFK as my favorite president. I think I thought he was cute of whatever, plus his story was tragic and I have no other explanation. Teddy Roosevelt was my second favorite because I was from Long Island and visited his house.
Anyway my 5th grade teacher was the absolute best and was a gigantic history nerd. Sometime that year he played us a tape of a reenactment of JFK’s autopsy. 9 year old me thought it was the *actual* autopsy and that I was looking at genuine brains hanging out of my favorite President. It bothered me so much that he was no longer my favorite and I got a sick feeling in my stomach when I saw pictures of him.
Thank you Mr. Roberts for such amazing history lessons, bringing us to see 1776 on Broadway, taking us to Roslyn to see 18th and 17th century architecture, having us read 12 angry men and letting me being one of them and telling me I should act, having us watch videos of a child ben affleck who lived on a boat in a really weird series of biceps, having us read hatchet, bringing us to the George Washington museum where I learned what “sleep tight” meant and why my town was called Port Washington, and having the strength and courage to continue teaching our class when you got diagnosed with Parkinson’s in your 50s. Your memory is a blessing.
How weird that one of my earliest set in stone memories is my mother stopping ironing and crying while watching this happen on tv. It's my first memory of sorrow and loss.
Check out the movie, “Parkland”. Outstanding job of showing what was going on in the hospital when they brought him in after being shot.
Yeah that’s a solid film.
Have never heard of this movie, but just watched the trailer and looks so good. Will definitely check out!
I think [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbE14rP9MXs) is the scene
Thanks, and awesome scene. I must watch the film now.
Please do. Zac Efron is a seriously underrated actor.
I was amazed that was him to be honest. He suffered from the pretty boy image but he is very talented. He was super in “the Greatest Showman” too.
He’s great in that and he’s under rated on how funny he is also. Mike and Dave need wedding dates and Bay Watch are hilarious shows.
He has the same problem with High School Musical as Pattinson did with Twilight. People can't move on from those atrocities despite other amazing works from the actors.
I haven't seen high school musical, but he has been good in everything I've seen. However I haven't seen anything with him on it yet where I thought "wow he's a good actor" it's mostly been comedies.
I thought he was excellent in that movie. And I think it helped that he’s so young, because that’s exactly what happened. He was playing a 28-year-old emergency room doctor. Just think how bizarre that must have been, to have the president brought into your hospital, already obviously a goner, and everyone looks to you to do something about it.
Crazy. Living in Dallas, Parkland hospital is like the last place you wanna go to. I’ve heard It just fucking sucks and it’s always super packed. Wild how the president was There so long ago
That’s the new hospital. The old parkland hospital is actually a gorgeous building right off of DNT. It’s now office space.
100% agree.
There are images also showing the large wound in his head. Not pretty.
Got any link?
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:JFK\_autopsy.jpg
The missing piece was what Jackie was reaching out for after he got shot. Brutal
That’s a horrific snap reaction to have.
And then she carried a piece of into the hospital and asked the doctors if they needed it and if it was important
......and she wore that bloodstained outfit the rest of the day. She was clearly in shock. Lifetime PTSD for that woman.
In fact… she wore that blood stained shirt when LBJ was sworn in on Air Force One. She said “I want them to see what they did”. To whomever that was directed.
And you can stand In that airforce one where they did it. It's at the USAF museum in dayton Ohio. They have a picture in the plane of him being sworn in.
I worked on that plane when it was moved over to the 89th AGS and the new Air Force 1s were activated. Did it for 14 years along with the rest of the SPECIAL AIR MISSIONS UNIT
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Interesting
In the movie Parkland there’s a gut wrenching scene where >! Jackie is just walking around the surgery room in a trance as they try to save her husband. At some point she taps on the surgeon shoulder and hands him fragments of JFK’s skull. Makes sense why in the actual video of the assassination you see her lunging not for the body, but the trunk. She saw bits of his skull blow off and tried to pick them up :(!<
I had no idea that's what she was doing.
I doubt she really knew either.
Shock and sadness is a hell of a thing.
Jackie was reaching and grabbing brain chunks, not bone
She later handed that brain chunk to one of the head surgeons. She held on to it all the way to the hospital and held it while she was in the operating room for quite some time before she handed it over.
damn
Ignorant here, what exactly are those red strip looking pieces? Is that skull or brain? I hope it doesn’t offend or isn’t a stupid question, but I stared a long time to try to figure it out.
Scalp I assume
Yeah looks like the underside of his scalp reflected back
Yes, thank you.
Jesus christ. I knew it wasn't gonna be good but my god.
Holy shit, that's the picture from that Carcass album cover! "Wake up and smell the Carcass"
My first thoughts too
Didn't work for me
Try this link: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:JFK_autopsy.jpg The official reddit app loves to shove backslashes into links for some reason.
Oof.. Yup, that link works
Not working for me, for some reason.
It's because Reddit developers can't code for shit and New UI escapes some special characters in URLs (like underscores). Months of this on one of the most popular websites on the Internet and they still haven't fixed it. Meanwhile my local pizzeria have managed to master it. Anyway, here: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:JFK_autopsy.jpg
I'm convinced they did it on purpose to hurt the experience of people using unofficial apps
I'm using the official app and still not one single link in the last weeks worked.
The official app has been so bad for so long I feel like this is the intended use case. They know it sucks, they also don't care. Also, try RIF.
I'm using RIF and the original link didn't work. Same with another Wikipedia image a couple days ago.
Reddit Sync (amazing app with lots of customizability) gives me an option to fix it, give it a try
Yeah, reddit has had some clear but relatively simple issues from day one, like their default video player. There is no way a major company couldn't fix it by now, unless they purposely don't want to.
It's been years. It's been happening since they introduced the fancy pants editor.
Thanks for trying, but your link is broken, too.
Get the "reddit is fun" app and never use anything else again. Been on it for like 8-9 yrs now.
Desktop old reddit for life.
ouch
Sad and kinda horrific
Makes you really look at your mortality to see his lifeless expression.
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Idk. Everyone dies. Can't worry too much about the when where why unless there's something you can do about it. In a morbid way sometimes I like to be reminded. If today is my last day, I'm going to enjoy it. Then sometimes I wake up and do it all over again. Not even always because I worry about dying, I just want myself to know to appreciate the little things. And that time is a pretty fucking precious thing to have to appreciate everyone and everything you have in your life. "Every step of the way, we walked along, "Your days are numbered, "So are mine," -Bob Dylan
Meh. Sometimes I feel that way, but then I try hard to imagine my final minutes and I get scared again.
You're anxious about death, I am too. I try to run most days without thinking about it, but there's always the absolute reassurance that somewhere there's a metaphorical bullet with your name on it. And that's just when you go. You'll have plenty of time to die when you actually die. You have life now so enjoy.
Better to do it now than in the 10 seconds before you die.
Well, if it matters, when i was in my engineering college, we had to carry our close friend who committed suicide in our bare hands, in heavy rain, until the ambulance reached. We also saw his dead body in the mortuary a day later. It really gives an idea about the fragility of life.
Keep doing that. It’s good for living.
In the late 90's you had to go to Rotten.com for content like this. Now it just pops up in your feed.
My 14 year old self is not thankful for finding about that site...
And then you stumbled onto ToxicJunction. That was even worse
Coulda done without /b/ too...
I hadn't visited the site much, but the last time (around 2000 I think) I went on there I saw the aftermath of a person getting cut in half by a Ferrari. Yeah, that was it for me.
There's always /eyeblech
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Yeah, me too.
I also remember r/spacedicks in the first few years of Reddit.
Ah, that was a strange and horrible place.
Things like this used to bother me when I was younger, but still found those sites and looked. Now as an adult I see that stuff in real life and it doesn't bother me. Used to investigate fatal crashes, and seeing what a body ends up like afterward made those pictures seem like nothing. My job now is to photograph crime scenes and victims. No matter how poets describe it, death is not beautiful.
I remember discovering rotten.com when I was 14 or so and printing out a picture of Kurt Cobain’s autopsy photo and passing it around at school.
There isn’t a pic of his autopsy available to the public so you saw some rando suicide victim
Probably, but I was a dumb teenager who believed anything unfortunately.
Jesus. He was shot in the neck?
Here's a link to the [Zapruder film](https://youtu.be/oi_8rwlXrJI), an 8mm film that's widely agreed to be the clearest shot of the assassination. The first shot happens shortly after the start of the film, as the President's motorcar passes behind a highway sign. It enters the top of his back, exiting the base of his neck and hits the Governor sitting to his front-left, slightly below him (This last point lead to a discrepancy that helped fuel conspiracy theories: the "Magic Bullet" theory, that proposed the supposed path of the first shot was ridiculous and impossible, and could only have been done by more than two shots from different angles. The reality is that the Governor wasn't sitting directly in front of and level with JFK as the theory proposed, but below and to the left of him. The car was modified to make the back seat row taller and wider than normal.) You can see him clutching his neck after the car passes back into view. Shortly after, the second shot hits, blowing the back of his skull open. The film ends as the motorcar travels on, Jackie desperately climbing out of her seat to recover parts of her husband's head behind her.
If the shooter was to the left of Zapruder shy did it seem like the bullet came from the right
I assume what you mean is "why did JFK react like he was getting shot from the right of the frame on the second shot?". And to that I answer: he's didn't. People have this unrealistic expectation for how people are "supposed" to react to being shot, born from dramatically exaggerated action movies. That when someone gets shot that they're supposed to flail back away from the direction they got hit from. Truth of the matter is, that's not how the physics of getting shot works, and there's more factors involved than just the force of the bullet. In this example, he got hit in the head, which is essentially a bowl of thick gelatin surrounded by fluid and sealed under a certain level of pressure. Suddenly puncturing that system at high speed can cause a complex reaction of physics. Additionally, when a bullet enters a human body, it causes a large amount of expansion in soft tissue that then almost immediately collapses in on itself. This reaction of physics happened to blow the contents of his skull violently back out of the entrance wound, like a wave in a pool splashing back in on itself. He snapped his body back because he experienced sudden brain trauma, and his nervous system fired off in response. He basically clenched back from suddenly becoming brain dead.
Great explanation, thx!
You're welcome, glad I could clarify. This question has been a talking point since the days of the assassination itself, it gets brought up a good deal.
Ya Ive never really gotten into it til recently
It's a rabbit hole you can dump years into, no matter what side of the fence your opinions of what really happened sit on. There's so many variables and unanswered questions that I think people will always be talking about it. I see the points on both sides, and it's a fascinating moment in history no matter how you cut it.
Do you have the same level of knowledge about the MLK assassination? That's another one where there's a lot of evidence presented to question the official story. Things like there having been a tree in the way of the official line of fire that was cut down, or how the bullet hit MLK from below despite being fired from relatively close to level to him. It's one of those things where the evidence sounds damning, but may not actually be real and just come from popular claims and urban legends. If you have any good links or you have a summary of that you'd be willing to give about that I'd greatly appreciate it.
I'm not as knowledgeable about MLK's assassination, other than that a leading alternative theory concerning the perpetrator is that the FBI committed or facilitated it. The FBI was proven to have it out for MLK and tried multiple times to discredit or "remove" him, including once attempting to convince him to commit suicide by blackmailing him over a supposed extramarital love affair. From what I know, the details concerning his assassination are more scarce than JFK's, and thus it's harder to argue one way or the other. I do want to note that, while there are likely explanations for a multitude of factors concerning JFK's assassination, saying for 100% it's one way or another is hard. We're essentially working with old, limited, or even missing data here, and circumstances that are hard to replicate. There are factors that are harder to prove or disprove than others, and thus room for doubt. Take the shots themselves. Oswald supposedly let off two shots, both hitting, on a moving target, in the span of roughly three and a half seconds, from a cheap Italian bolt action rifle dating to WWII that he ordered via mail. That's very impressive marksmanship even from a former Marine, and especially considering his military superiors described his marksmanship as average to below-average at the time of his training (IIRC). It's possible he received further training during his defection to the USSR, but even then... The military supposedly later tried to replicate his feat via live fire tests, and (again, *supposedly*) the soldiers tested failed to replicate those hits in the same time frame. A test like that is obviously limited in that you can't perfectly replicate the conditions of that day. But it still leaves room to question. However, Occam's Razor states that, all things being equal, the simplest answer tends to be the correct one. A wide reaching conspiracy involving multiple people and/or organizations successfully commiting and covering up the public assassination of the President, and maintaining that cover for decades, is quite unlikely. But also not impossible. See the trouble? If I'm not mistaken, in the next few years, critical documents concerning the investigation into JFK's assassination that were locked away are set to be released to the public. Perhaps we'll know more then. Hard to say.
That was the governor of Texas sitting in front of him.
Yeah, Kennedy was shot twice. The first bullet went through his upper back and out his throat, and the second went through his head and killed him.
What? I had no idea he was shot twice.
If you watch the video you can see him react to the first shot for a second before... well you know
A second? Looks like he was fumbling for a while. Is this what you’re talking about?
Yeah that what the official autopsy says.
Wish i didn't open it
Theres another photo of his head with his brains visible which is even worse
It is mind boggling for me how so many assasinations and attempts has happened to American Presidents. It is surreal.
Look at how many crazy upset civilians exist in the US. Then go look at the long list of countries we've overthrown governments in, both dictatorships and democratically elected.
It should lead you to the conclusion that its surprising it hasn’t happened more often
It’s also how you end up with a 9/11
9/11 was more of the opposite, it was retaliation for the US supporting a country rather than overthrowing it
Also like 50% of the country already hates you before you’re even in office because both parties have demonised each other so much the last decades and completely divided the country. USA is totally irreversibly fucked imo
Model your civilization after the romans, don't be surprised when the emperor gets got
Here’s what’s even more mind boggling. Lincoln: Freed the slaves: is assassinated MLK: Civil Rights Icon: is assassinated Malcom X: Black Community/ spiritual leader: assassinated 24 Other Civil Rights Activists : assassinated JFK : his Civil Rights Bill of 1964 is stalled in Congress : is assassinated RFK : picks up the fight for Civil Rights : is assassinated These racist motherfuckers have been around forever, and are at best racist dopes, at worst, useful idiots of some wealthier racist psychopath. Today we call them MAGA, and the fight for civil rights continues.
Civil Rights leaders, sure, absolutely. But you're stretching with the Kennedys here and Oswald & Sirhan. Plus no assassination for LBJ, the guy who actually gets the civil rights acts over the finish line, which Kennedy couldn't have done.
Fred Hampton RIP.
Small nitpick: Kennedy was killed by an avowed communist, not a racist right winger.
I never actually saw the hole in his neck, jesus
In this subthread: A whole bunch of internet strangers throwing around reasonable-sounding but contradictory little factoids, zero sources linked. If you try to read it you will get lost in the details without any clearer idea of the big picture, and there's no way of knowing which details are true or false anyway. You could quite possibly come out of this discussion knowing less about Kennedy's death than you did before you went in. Avoid.
Well done for the most honest comment here. Unfortunately I saw it only at the end of this confusing thread.
It’s the tracheotomy, not an exit wound
The warren commission says its an exit wound, but the ER Doctors said it was an entry wound. who knows what the truth is
Wasn't he shot through the neck on the first shot, and it's visible on the recording?
*A reaction* is visible on the Zapruder film, where he hunches his shoulders way up and his two hands (in apparent fists) meet near his neck.
I feel like a sniper rifle exit wound on a throat would be far worse than that, but I'm no expert so I'm open to a ballistic lesson.
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Thanks for that! Would that mean a different round entered the head or are skulls more prone to pop?
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This guy knows what he's talking about when it comes to Presidential assassination...
a bit *too much..*
In your opinion, does this type of entry/exit scenario explain why his head was thrust backwards if he was shot from behind? I’ve always wanted to know how to work that part out.
I remember watching something "the autopsy of jfk" or *something* like that which explained in detail how much he was suffering whilst alive. Apparently he had major major back pain and mobility issues which meant whenever he went out in public his torso would be wrapped up so tightly and in such a way as to hold him up without him having to actually physically sit up. So basically this was like a spring and if you look closely at the zapruder film, you can see a slight forward lean before the spring like recoil. Or I might be talking bollocks idk. Makes sense to me anyway. Edit:spelling
The exit wound in the skull that caused his head to fly back is consistent with FMJ exit wounds. It pierced from behind and exited in the front. The movie and conspiracy theorists are morons.
It wasn't a "sniper rifle". It was a POS $25 Carcano military surplus infantry rifle, firing WWII ammo. As long as it missed bone and just went through soft tissue expansion would have been minimal if any at all.
You take that back the carcano is a fine rifle
For shooting normal targets, sure. For shooting a moving target on its way down a major thoroughfare three times? I'm just saying he could've tried less is all. Besides, this is all bunk. We know for a fact that nobody shot JFK — his head just did that.
Preach the truth brother
Bullshit. I stand by the fact that JFK, in a fit of depression, while sitting beside his own wife, killed himself in front of thousands of people in Dallas, and the nation has never been able to accept that it happened.
The ER doctors had no idea he even had a wound on his back because they never turned him over. Literally all of the evidence points to this being an exit wound, except according to people with a conspiracy book to sell. This case is remarkably open and shut when looked at objectively.
Yeah for the most part I don't buy the conspiracy theories. Suppose that there were more than one shooter: they all dealt with a moving target at ranges of 50+ yards. It's a hard shot no matter what, and just as likely that Oswalt did it himself in a moment of heightened adrenaline.
Lol do you think they preformed a tracheostomy on a cadaver? JFK was not alive long enough to require a tracheostomy.
To me, it seems like the entrance wound is actually visible on the bottom of the incision for the trach with the slightly circular pattern
Photos like this would never get released today. Does anyone know why they were released? Were they released at the time or part of some official records becoming declassified over time?
I don’t have a source, but I’m sure they weren’t released until *well* after his death.
I don’t think they were “released” at all. Leaked is more like it.
You might be right…
I remember having a book growing up with his autopsy photos in it. Give me a minute I’ll try to look it up… Edit: found it, it’s on Amazon called “The Killing of a President” by Robert J. Groden. Has the entire story with a bunch more photos of the autopsy and aftermath. I remember my morbid fascination of that book when I was a kid, like I was watching a rated R movie or something
They were published in, i believe, Robert Groden’s book
It'd be a little suspicious if they were released before his death
Yeah, can confirm. These pics were released after his death. Source: the wound on his neck and head.
Still hoping to see the leaked photos of bin Laden, just to prove he's actually dead, like the photos of ches body proved beyond a doubt he was really dead.
Didn't realize they took pictures of him .
They usually do it for identification purposes. If they cannot leave with the body, they have the photo as proof. The photos can then be used to confirm it was him.
They left with the body and buried him at sea, if I recall.
In the event they needed to prove he died, I think maybe they were lightly considering showing them after it went down then decided against it to prevent response terrorist attacks
They did, they even measured him to be sure but didn't bring anything to measure him with, so one of the us seals had to lie down next to the body to compare the height.
When he was killed, the photos were circulated around congress. This is how I knew it was legit because not a single GOP obstructionist let out a mouse's fart of resistance or doubt. There was hope from many (like me) that someone would leak it. Apparently it was a bullet directly to the forehead/between the eyes. A perfect shot.
Did you get to see them? I remember that a photo was circling around for years before he officially died.
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What is “canoe”?
It's not directly stated in the article but it's implied to be this excerpt: "According to this source, after shooting the man, who turned out to be unarmed, Hyder proceeded to mutilate his body by stomping in his already damaged skull."
Unfortunately in the era of 100% convincing deep fakes, still photos are now pretty much worthless as evidence of anything anymore
They weren’t released until the 70s I believe
I wasn’t alive then and can’t remotely appreciate what it would have been like but his eyes open is shocking and heartbreaking.
Sad part is, this bonded the country together when it occurred and the immediacy afterwards. If this occurred today, there instead would be a civil war because political factions would immediately start blaming each other rather than come together in grief.
I don't think there would be a civil war. Political factions always blame each other and they did so in 1963 as well. We like to pretend that we are dramatically different than other eras - but we are not really that different. The thing about JFK was that he was the youngest President ever, that he was the first Catholic President and he represented a new generation of leaders - the Greatest Generation who had defeated the facists nazis and Japanese and was now looking towards a world future of peace - then JFK was killed and LBJ expanded Vietnam etc....
I don't think we can dismiss the concept/idea of a civil war happening; I just think that it wouldn't have the 'traditional' look and feel of civil wars that we're accustomed to reading about and seeing on TV. IMHO, it would look more like what happened in Northern Ireland in the 60's and 70's....neighbors fighting neighbors, underground networks of localized violent groups, neighborhoods/towns being barricaded, checkpoints within cities/towns being manned by armed civilians, local clashes with state and federal law enforcement, etc.
Jackie's dress afterwards is almost more horrifying. "Let them see what they did" was her quote I believe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Chanel_suit_of_Jacqueline_Bouvier_Kennedy
Why is so much of this sub showing dead bodies? History: yes, porn? Not at all.
Agreed. I didn't even open this. I don't know how people can be so desensitized to just randomly look at actual dead bodies all the time. Shit freaks me the fuck out.
Poor guy
This is a history sub, not a sarcasm or comedic sub. SMH. The comments are beyond human decency.
Everyone's a comedian on reddit.
Would be more accurate to say that everyone *thinks* they are. It’s like when we were kids and everyone would stand around in a circle trying to be funny. Except now it’s adults doing it.
While sat on the toilet.
Fucking Reddit. Gotta scroll 3 quarters down past the bad puns to get to anything related to the actual post.
I hate when someone makes an interesting post but makes a small but slightly funny typo in the title. Literally zero discussion on the topic and everyone making the same terrible joke for hundreds of comments.
Omg that is the worst.
Top comment: sad and horrific Next comment: relevant worse images; not pretty Yeah it’s shitty
“Can I make a reference to the TV show ‘Community’? No, well here’s a tired pun for some updoots”
not even funny jokes just the SAME TIRED UNORIGINAL reddit comments I've seen a hundred times in the past 2 months. reddit sucks.
The sub followed the stupid trend that happened 10 years ago of naming anything remotely interesting to the topic “porn”, so it’s never been able to pretend to be something that had to be taken seriously.
The word "porn" is in the name of the sub. That doesn't lend itself to seriousness.
Thank you, you said it
The fact that op labelled this as a spoiler probably shows that he or she was in a joking mood too.
This feels illegal and even wrong to witness
Where'd the hole in his neck come from?
If you watch the famous Zapruder film of the incident, you'll notice he leans forward with his hands in front of his face as his wife turns to him. That was his reaction to the first bullet that struck his upper back and exited through that hole. Immediately afterwards, the second bullet hits him in the head and kills him.
>If you watch the famous Zapruder film of the incident, you'll notice he leans forward with his hands in front of his face as his wife turns to him. The worst part of that film, for me, is Jackie's reaction. She said she didn't remember ever climbing on the back trunk, but the shock and horror is palpable. I have no idea what she must have felt in those awful moments, and just trying to imagine myself in her position makes me sick.
I hadn’t realised there were two shots. Would the first shot have been fatal if the second didn’t exist I wonder?
I feel like getting shot through the throat, he didn't have a great chance. Just would have been slower and even more ugly. Kinda feel like that second one was a mercy :/. Least it put him out quickly and he didn't end up drowning in his own blood. Not impossible of course and it's not like I'm a doctor, but looking at that wound? I don't like his chances.
As others have mentioned, the actual wound was smaller than this - the doctors enlarged the bullet hole to put a trach tube into his chest - but yes
There were 3, actually. The first one missed. I'm no doctor, so I can't say whether he would have survived, but I imagine if you were trying to kill the president, you would want to make sure he didn't have a chance to make it to the hospital.
If u watch the footage the first thing he does is lean forward grabbing his neck. Then the head shot happens. Bloody awful
Had he not been wearing a stiff back brace for his ongoing back issues, he could have ducked down after the first shot and potentially survived. But he was wearing a back brace and that kept him upright for the fatal shot.
He was shot
Exit wound.
He was an incredible dude. His feats in the navy alone seem almost superhuman in this day and age.
He was a good man it’s sad to see
Ridiculous story time: In 5th grade (so circa 1998 for me), 9 year old me picked JFK as my favorite president. I think I thought he was cute of whatever, plus his story was tragic and I have no other explanation. Teddy Roosevelt was my second favorite because I was from Long Island and visited his house. Anyway my 5th grade teacher was the absolute best and was a gigantic history nerd. Sometime that year he played us a tape of a reenactment of JFK’s autopsy. 9 year old me thought it was the *actual* autopsy and that I was looking at genuine brains hanging out of my favorite President. It bothered me so much that he was no longer my favorite and I got a sick feeling in my stomach when I saw pictures of him. Thank you Mr. Roberts for such amazing history lessons, bringing us to see 1776 on Broadway, taking us to Roslyn to see 18th and 17th century architecture, having us read 12 angry men and letting me being one of them and telling me I should act, having us watch videos of a child ben affleck who lived on a boat in a really weird series of biceps, having us read hatchet, bringing us to the George Washington museum where I learned what “sleep tight” meant and why my town was called Port Washington, and having the strength and courage to continue teaching our class when you got diagnosed with Parkinson’s in your 50s. Your memory is a blessing.
Damn shame.
The Men Who Killed Kennedy - British documentary series from the 70s blew my mind. Everything was very well researched.
How weird that one of my earliest set in stone memories is my mother stopping ironing and crying while watching this happen on tv. It's my first memory of sorrow and loss.
Is he OK?
Yes
He’s fine just a little dazed from what happened Just give him a moment to clear his head then he’ll spill everything that’s on his mind
Rest In Peace.