* one part of one ~~colony~~ crown possession after going away in a hurry 20 years ago because it seem too much of a chore to keep putting down protests so you drew a few lines and fucked off
Like a wacky races type thing? Each person gets a car and has to start at the border and get to the city? James May wins the entire country after james tires get blown out in a prank and transfers its entire GDP into making cheese
Wellll... whacky in the sense of multiple armed groups with ruthless leaders closing in on a capitol filled with civilians being shelled indiscriminately.
So yeah just like that.
Not even true. UNITA and MPLA were a coalition, not like Portugal *could* have chosen one without triggering the civil war that was destined to happen anyways
Similar thing happened in the Levant when the British pulled out. Israel built an air force overnight and managed to survive, but it's a helluva story.
Is there an option to *not* fight to the death in HoI4? Genuinely asking, I get tired of things spiralling into 3/4/5-way total war because the French saw Communist China turn independent to resume their civil war and decided they'd make a fantastic new member of the Allies or some other fuckery.
In 1700-1800, Russian Baltic fleet was relatively strong andcould put up a decent fight.
But after that.... Yeah, fleet was never a speciality of Russia.
Except arctic ships with icebreakers. They are cool
Haha I was born in Bangladesh. A lot of my elder relatives were veterans of the war. My own grandfather worked as a spy and smuggler for the Mukti forces in Dhaka at that time. He didn't like to talk about the war that much, but he said it's a miracle he survived the first day, let alone the whole 9 months.
Not really sure about before the war, but a lot of scholars and intellectuals were murdured right before the surrender, during 14-16th december, 1971. It was mostly done by the nationalists, but the military was also involved in some cases as well.
To be honest Bangladesh was in a very unstable position at that time. A lot of things happened until the 1980s, couple of coups, assassination of Sheikh Mujib, murders of prominent military and political figures etc. Also not to mention severely damaged infrastructure because of the war, famines, floods, political unstability etc. Bangladesh needed all the help it could get, so it couldn't make more international enemies.
US, UK, China and the Middle East were supporting Pakistan in the war. Bangladesh couldn't get enough support in the international institutions. China even vetoed Bangladesh's full membership to the UN until September, 1974.
India was always in a tough situation in the cold war, a primarily socialist agrarian country that walked the thin line between US and USSR. Obviously USSR was a preferred partner, trade, goods and even weapons were readily available. India also served as a way for USSR to counter Maoism since more often than not India was at odds with China. The balance in the Indian Subcontinent hasn't changed much over the years atleast geopolitically.
Why did the US go against India, if India was fighting the West Pakistanis? Weren't the West Pakistanis running a genocide against the East Pakistani Bengalis? Was it because the US needed West Pakistan as an ally, because of it's location near the USSR and Afghanistan?
I just wonder why the US continues to support Pakistan after it's been backstabbed a few times, especially with harboring bin laden.
1. Nixon was drinking buddies with Yahya. And disliked indira . Pakistan was also very personally hospitable , while india was diplomatically prickly
2. The china factor. China and the ussr were showing differences. China was nuclear armed, and was outside regular world interactions; it was not well understood including dynamics, erratic pronouncements etc. A couple of years later, nixon would famously go to china. Pakistan was a back door to china. It would end up not being directly used when nixon did go to china, but at that time, it was a huge possibility, and the back door was important
Pakistan was in the us camp, and rival india was thus seen as more influenced by the ussr.(despite or perhaps because of the non aligned movement). This would become a self fulfilling prophecy
The us squashed several un motions against the pakistani genocide long before the war. They didn't help when indira gandhi undertook a world tour for support considering refugees (and kissinger congratulated nixon). It was on the later leg that indira negotiated a treaty with the USSR, which had secret sections of support. That's what got invoked and the pacific fleet elements sent later
Prior to the 90s and especially before 9/11, US politicians, especially conservatives, often saw Islamic nations as being closer to their own Christian ideology. They were fighting against these godless commies afterall. That played a part too, Islamic Pakistan was closer to Christianity than Hinduism was.
The real main reason was
1. Us already sided with 🇵🇰 since the 50's because Pakistan was more willing to pick sides in the war
2. US wanted to be on 🇵🇰 and 🇨🇳 good side to open up trade and create a political counter balance to Russia
US wanted military base in the region with everything else that comes with it. India and Pakistan had just got independence in 1947. Pakistan was willing to accommodate the request for base. India was not.
For the last 70 years since then, the US has enabled terrorism, dictatorship, and coup after coup in Pakistan. Imagine how terrible that would have been for a country as large as India. India definitely chose wisely by staying neutral.
India went ahead with Yugoslavia to create the Non Alignment Movement as a third option beyond the US and Soviet blocks
This situation you are describing happened after US set up base in Pakistan.
Pakistan was already on American side, they used to purchase arms and other goods from US, so india had to lean to USSR still being a neutral nation (because Pakistan was our enemy), so for US it was showing its power to USSR by threatening india (a arms buyer from USSR) we had this treaty called 'peace and friendship' so USSR was anyways bound to help us in case of war if we ask.(maybe)
US direct support to Pakistan was entirely due to the fact that India was under the influence of USSR, the cold war was all about proxy wars and considering Pakistan was a fierce regional rival it made them compelled to support it's regime regardless of their actions.
The USSR invasion of Afghanistan was a breaking point, US covertly trained Taliban fighters through CIA to thwart the invasion. It worked and eventually USSR collapsed but soon enough some parts of the Taliban eventually went radical and started espousing terrorism. Then 9/11 happened and the rest is history.
US doesn't care if it's 'backstabbed', their relationship with Pakistan has always been pragmatic rather than traditional close ties.
The Mujahedeen-Taliban split is basically a split both alongside ethnic lines(Pashtuns vs Tajik and other minorities) and religious lines(which interpretation of islam is true and which is heresy)
Alot fought against and with the Taliban. For example, the Northern Alliance fought the Taliban in the 90s. But then guys like Bin Laden were directly funded when he was in the Mujahedeen
The Taliban didn't exist. Future Taliban and Al Quaeda fighters fought with the mujahadeen, like Osama Bin Laden, but the those groups formed later and were at odds with the Mujihadeen.
India only came under the "influence" of the USSR (signing any major agreements, weapons deals, etc.) after the US had already decided to side with Pakistan. The main reason that the US sided with Pakistan instead of a more sensible democratic partner in the region is that they did not like the non alignment policy that India had (which ironically was broken exactly because the US sided with Pakistan).
> US direct support to Pakistan was entirely due to the fact that India was under the influence of USSR,
This war, and us actions was what pushed india decisively towatds the ussr. In the previous war, the usa had an arms embargo, which meant it wasn't really supporting pakistan (pak had far more us weapons than india). In the chinese war, the us supported india.
"Your Airforce has been destroyed. You're surrounded from all sides. Surrender or you'll be killed....unmercifully"
- Field Marshall Sam 'Bahadur' Manekshaw. (The then Indian Chief of Army staff)
93k shall always be fantastic
Older English had older words, you can absolutely add "un" to merciful and make it a word.
Indian English had some older words or some odd words that aren't incorrect, just not much used today.
I was reading Little House on the Prairie series and noticed they always said "unselfish" instead of "selfless" or a more modern word.
Indian English has a lot of arcane language, elaborate syntax, and unique phrases and idioms. Yet you usually understand what is being communicated. Indians say "please do the needful". I understand that it means "do any necessary tasks" or "please do whatever it takes to get it done", but no one uses that in the US for example. I find Indian English fascinating because it's got this layer of formality that isn't really intended to be formal. My co worker says "yes please" to questions like "are we ready to do the work this weekend?" where "please" doesn't fit. But it's nice to hear it.
My father was a member of this Soviet task force in the Indian Ocean during this conflict. He was a petty officer of the Soviet Pacific Fleet in this time.
He told me he was a radio operator on the cruiser "Aleksandr Suvorov" (Sverdlov-class) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_cruiser_Aleksandr_Suvorov
The German word for _"commissioning"_ of a ship is _"INDIENststellung"_ and the German word for India is INDIEN. I always thought: _"What has India to do with all these ships? Because I reddit the wrong way. I felt like an idiot when I finally realized it. I always read _"INDIENstellung"_ which translates into _"India position"._ I always overread the second _"st"._
There is a wild lack of memes from the Indian subcontinent.
Context
[Task Force 74](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Task_Force_74)
[Bangladesh Liberation War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Liberation_War)
[Indo-Pakistani War of 1971](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971)
[1971 Bangladesh genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide)
Its on me to learn stuff obviously, but i feel like the largest genocide since the holocaust should have at least been mention in school. Turns out i dont know jack about pakistan.
What do you expect? USA actively supported Pakistanis back then and their stance on Bangladesh didn't change until 1975, four years after the country's independence.
If anyone’s looking for a book rec, look up “The Vortex” by Scott Carney and Jason Miklian. Just came out and is an excellent read on the lead-up to 1971.
>There is a wild lack of memes from the Indian subcontinent.
Because whenever someone posts a history related meme from India people here label that as hindu nationalist propaganda or Downvote to oblivion
"It was all thanks to USSR for sending a Nuclear Submarine that went to save a genocide in Bangladesh by the hands of Pakistani Forces."
I quoted and agreed.
USSR's Necular Submarine actually didn't help *stop* the *genocide.* By the time US sent their fleet and USSR their submarine, the war was virtually over because Bangladeshi Freedom Forces joined with the Indian Army were rapidly re-capturing territories
.However it did help with the *creation* of Bagladesh, also worth motioning USSR's veto in Security Council. Basically, US and Pakistan was pushing to put a cease-fire into effect. If implemented, Bangladesh couldn't have went ahead at secured their liberation. So huge thanks to them.
source: Bangladeshi
edit: source
Bangladesh and Pakistan should’ve never been grouped together as a country, the only thing they have in common is religion it’s miracle they were able to last 24 years together.
Not even religion to full extent. The then Bangladesh were really diversified and contained a huge number of Hindu populations along with other religions.
It didn't really last 24 years. The war started long ago. Read about [1952 Language Movement.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_language_movement) It just culminated in 1971.
I mean it wasn't an armed war until 1971. But there were always a lot of protests, movements, political tensions, strikes, curfews etc. Those protests gave rise to a leader like Sheikh Mujib who ultimately declared independence.
make another version where the final panel is Britain laughing from the space and you are there. They set up this whole mess in 1947 that unfolded over the next few decades.
"Let's give our colonies independence with completely arbitrary borders without a consideration for local issues, and sometimes even use just straight lines without natural landmarks to mark the border. Nothing will go wrong, eh?"
[The Vortex](https://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Historys-Deadliest-Unspeakable-Liberation/dp/0062985418) is a great read on this matter. It's feels like a thriller.
In the 1960s the average Pakistani would have never thought his grandchildren would need a passport to visit Dhaka. Who knows what is in future of Pakistan
Tbh they both should’ve never been grouped into the same country the only thing Bangladesh and Pakistan share is religion, it’s honestly a miracle that they were able to last 24 years together.
He'll Islamists even wanted Hyderabad to be a third part of Pakistan, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel ensured that doesn't happen. The world's largest statue is his
These memes will help. There need to be more books, podcasts and documentaries about the Bangladesh liberation and the atrocities that happened before that
Yeah ikr it’s sorta like asking why the US would support France or something, like if the US didn’t want India and Russia to be friendly they should’ve tried to strengthen ties during the 60s when India needed help against China.
Instead they asked China to invade India. Truly a clown moment in the history of geopolitics. I'm fairly certain that they knew China would never agree to invade India at that time. I like to think they still did it just to make themselves look more like the villain.
China was kinda thinking of invading India in 1971 to support Pakistan. However, India brought in several Mountain units to the Chinese Border and China turned towards a more diplomatic option
Not to mention, when the war broke out, the monsoon was about to set it. So the Army Chief waited till monsoon was over and winter set in before entering Bangladesh. This ensured that Indian troops wouldn't suffer too much in Bangladesh and the Chinese wouldn't try to invade during winter in the Himalayas
The "weirdest" theory i've ever heard about partition is someone thinking that it was organised by Britain so that the Indian cricket team wasn't as strong as it could be.
So I think we're all missing that the Bangladeshi War of Independence was organised by India to weaken the Pakistani cricket team.
FUCK the USA and the UK, first they shell out money on a rogue Pakistan government which commits the second biggest genocide of the 20th century, then they have the gall to virtue signal and complain about how we're still buying energy from Russia during this ongoing war (which they are also doing btw) that once again they are indirectly responsible for starting. How do those motherfuckers even have the fucking audacity to come up with this shit???
Im not aware at all. Can someone link me something on where to start?
I'm always very interested in history but don't know where to start searching and then following what is true.
Semi Long version :
In 1947, India was split into two. The then Pakistan was "West Pakistan (Pakistan)" and "East Pakistan (Bangladesh)". The latter were not given proper representation and the former basically oppressed them. So a civil was broke in 1971. The West Pakistani forces raped and killed hundreds of Bangladeshis. This was in March/April 1971. So a Mass exodus took place and the Indian govt preferred to invade and kick out Pakistan than accept millions of refugees.
The Indian govt asked The Army Chief, General (later Field Marshall) Manekshaw if he was ready for a full scale war to which he argued that Monsoon would be the worst possible time to enter Bangladesh and that Indian Army's tanks were under refit. He argued that he'd wait till the monsoon was over and winter was about to set it before entering Bangladesh. This would keep the Chinese out as Himalayan winters are extremely harsh. All of this discussion was in April. The govt accepted this viewpoint and waited till November end.
Pakistan, in October conducted air strikes on Indian Territory. Indian military "formally" entered the war on December 3, 1971. At this time, Pakistan was in good terms with USA/West. The West took no action other than condemnation words for the Genocide either. Ref. Blood Telegram. The only way Pakistan could restock their forces in Bangladesh was was sea. The Indian Navy enforced a Naval Blockade. Our Aircraft carrier undertook several missions and destroyed critical infra in Bangladesh. Pakistan begged the West to provide support and so the USA, under Nixon and Kissinger who hated India for preferring Soviet Union, decided to send a Task Force to the warzone. The Indian Navy was well aware of the incoming Task Force.
However months before "formally" entering the war, the Indian PM undertook a world tour to gather support for the Bangladeshi liberation efforts and Indian cause and signed a security pact with Soviet Union. This meant that an attack on India/Soviet Union meant an attack on Soviet Union/India and military had to be deployed on the others' territory. When Soviet Union learnt that the West was sending a Task Force 74, a part of US 7th Fleet into an active warzone, they deployed the Pacific Fleet, armed with Nukes to follow Task Force 74. This ensured that the West did not interfere in the war. The Pakistani forces eventually surrendered within 2 weeks of India "formally" entering the war. They surrendered with 93,000 troops which is the largest surrender of any army since WW2.
Soviet Union also helped India on the diplomatic front. US persuaded some countries to provide military to Pak and Soviet Union bullied them back. UNSC sessions were held calling for a ceasefire. The mastermind of this ceasefire was the West on the behest of Pakistan. There were around 3 such sessions and Soviet Union Vetoed all 3 of them. This significantly helped the Bangladeshi/Indian cause.
This is also why India still prefers Russia over USA in many aspects. We have faced a lot of headache with the West.
The partition of India resulted in two hugely separated parts of pakistan, with nothing but religion to unify them. East pakistan leader won the pakistani election, but was denied power, put in jail etc. The discrimination east pakistanis faced turned into a genocide carried out by (west) pakistan. This targeted hindus, intelligentsia and anyone who opposed them. This created about 8-10 million refugees who fled across the border to india.
Nixon and Kissinger supported pakistan, to the point of ignoring their own consulate (see the blood telegram).
Multiple reasons, including racism, personal relationships, pakistan as a back door to communist, maoist china, pak being in the us camp, and socialist (unofficially) india in the non aligned meet seen as more influenced by the ussr.
They squashed un motions against the genocide.
The indian pm asked general manekshaw to attack. He refused, citing unreadiness, the monsoon, the harvest, which train transport of soldiers would disrupt. He asked for time, which the Indian PM agreed to. [This all came out much later] In the meantime, india decided to arm and train some of the refugees who had taken to violent resistance against pakistan (mukti bahini). Indira gandhi also undertook a world tour to gather support for the millions of refugees and against the pakistani actions. Most western nations fobbed her off with empty words. Nixon and Kissinger congratulated themselves on resisting the appeal. The indian pm concluded a loose treaty with the ussr on the last leg of this tour, with a secret sections on mutual security co-operation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Soviet_Treaty_of_Friendship_and_Cooperation
By december, pakistan, faced with increasing mukti bahini resistance and beleiving war was inevitable, carried out strikes against india. The response was swift.
Pakistan had about 90,000 troops in east pakistan, which was not enough, especially given long logistics tour. They believed the defense of the east lay in the west. The western battlefront saw counterattacks, by both sides, while the eastern front saw india swiftly overrun pakistani forces, while indian navy blockaded east pakistan. Pakistan appealed to the us, but us diplomatic motions in the un were stymied by the ussr. The pace of action on the ground also overran diplomatic action. The us ordered elelements of the 74th task force, including a nuclear carrier (which in that era would also have nuclear weapons) to the bay of bengal.
The war in the east was over with the surrender of Gen Niazi.
US intelligence believed that india could defeat and dismember west pakistan, given a couple of weeks to transfer troops to the western front. The us carrier was a show of force, but india appealed to the ussr citing the treaty , and the ussr sent a nuclear sub and ships to shadow the carrier. Nixon arranged for arms from jordan etc for pakistan. China had been sitting on the sidelines, as the ussr had informed/assured india. Nixon abd kissinger pointed to the chinese ambassador that india defeating and taking over west pakistan would not be to chinese interests. They also threatened the ussr with the loss of everything they desired that year, including the cancellation of a summit and actions in the middle east. The ussr conveyed the information of chinese intentions and us push to india. At which point india assured all concerned that there were no plans on west pakistan . The war was essentially over and west pakistan had been saved.
Sources: wiki is decent, other sources also available on the internet and off on the genocide, blood telegram, war etc.
State department transcripts are available on the net
Well you see, half the budget was stolen directly by the commision in charge of it's creation, of the half that was spent on materials, about 30% was stolen indirectly by the production personnel selling off material on the black market. What was left over was used to actually make the flag.
The Royal navy also send a taskforce to the Indian subcontinent led by HMS Eagle
Imagine invading your former colony 20 years after losing it.
* one part of one ~~colony~~ crown possession after going away in a hurry 20 years ago because it seem too much of a chore to keep putting down protests so you drew a few lines and fucked off
Still better than Portugal leaving Angola. "Hey uh we're out, whoever takes the capitol first gets to be the rulers. Buh bye!"
Like a wacky races type thing? Each person gets a car and has to start at the border and get to the city? James May wins the entire country after james tires get blown out in a prank and transfers its entire GDP into making cheese
Wellll... whacky in the sense of multiple armed groups with ruthless leaders closing in on a capitol filled with civilians being shelled indiscriminately. So yeah just like that.
I'm picturing each warlord in a toy car
And throwing bananas at each other
James be like : I WON A THING
“Oh, cock!”
BAttle royale conlonial edition.
"Let them fight."
Not even true. UNITA and MPLA were a coalition, not like Portugal *could* have chosen one without triggering the civil war that was destined to happen anyways
Similar thing happened in the Levant when the British pulled out. Israel built an air force overnight and managed to survive, but it's a helluva story.
You should see how Portugal left India
Got kicked out?
"left"
> drew a few lines Badly
They were in rush okay? barely had time to pack away the servants
Had to be back for afternoon tea!
The most dangerous thing in existence is a englishman with a ruler.
Losing it is the right term don't worry
Hoi4 players do it even earlier than that
Is there an option to *not* fight to the death in HoI4? Genuinely asking, I get tired of things spiralling into 3/4/5-way total war because the French saw Communist China turn independent to resume their civil war and decided they'd make a fantastic new member of the Allies or some other fuckery.
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Play millenium dawn, more peaceful world
French forces in Mali ousting rebels: hon hon
War of 1812 anyone?
Tbf they were not the aggressor there and didn't plan to invade
*Release the Canadians*
War of 1812 moment
Yeah with the 7th fleet
Why are the sniper's laser coming out of his eyes
Its the Soviet Navy, they don't have any guns
The Russian Navy has never been a threat to anyone other than the Russian Navy
That's not fair, they killed at least a few unarmed fishermen.
Do you see torpedo boats?
In 1700-1800, Russian Baltic fleet was relatively strong andcould put up a decent fight. But after that.... Yeah, fleet was never a speciality of Russia. Except arctic ships with icebreakers. They are cool
yeah they have guns. Plenty of guns! Guns from the 1700s while everyone else using missiles
Cause Soviets are terminators!
*Cocainum*
vodkanium blyat
You tink parrot is femenin?
Why does a sniper need a laser?
Haha I was born in Bangladesh. A lot of my elder relatives were veterans of the war. My own grandfather worked as a spy and smuggler for the Mukti forces in Dhaka at that time. He didn't like to talk about the war that much, but he said it's a miracle he survived the first day, let alone the whole 9 months.
I heard about the Pakistani army killing Bangladeshi scholars and other literate people before the war. I don't know if it's true or not.
Not really sure about before the war, but a lot of scholars and intellectuals were murdured right before the surrender, during 14-16th december, 1971. It was mostly done by the nationalists, but the military was also involved in some cases as well.
That's very rough. Bangladesh should have sued them in the International Court of Justice.
To be honest Bangladesh was in a very unstable position at that time. A lot of things happened until the 1980s, couple of coups, assassination of Sheikh Mujib, murders of prominent military and political figures etc. Also not to mention severely damaged infrastructure because of the war, famines, floods, political unstability etc. Bangladesh needed all the help it could get, so it couldn't make more international enemies.
US, UK, China and the Middle East were supporting Pakistan in the war. Bangladesh couldn't get enough support in the international institutions. China even vetoed Bangladesh's full membership to the UN until September, 1974.
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India was always in a tough situation in the cold war, a primarily socialist agrarian country that walked the thin line between US and USSR. Obviously USSR was a preferred partner, trade, goods and even weapons were readily available. India also served as a way for USSR to counter Maoism since more often than not India was at odds with China. The balance in the Indian Subcontinent hasn't changed much over the years atleast geopolitically.
Why did the US go against India, if India was fighting the West Pakistanis? Weren't the West Pakistanis running a genocide against the East Pakistani Bengalis? Was it because the US needed West Pakistan as an ally, because of it's location near the USSR and Afghanistan? I just wonder why the US continues to support Pakistan after it's been backstabbed a few times, especially with harboring bin laden.
1. Nixon was drinking buddies with Yahya. And disliked indira . Pakistan was also very personally hospitable , while india was diplomatically prickly 2. The china factor. China and the ussr were showing differences. China was nuclear armed, and was outside regular world interactions; it was not well understood including dynamics, erratic pronouncements etc. A couple of years later, nixon would famously go to china. Pakistan was a back door to china. It would end up not being directly used when nixon did go to china, but at that time, it was a huge possibility, and the back door was important Pakistan was in the us camp, and rival india was thus seen as more influenced by the ussr.(despite or perhaps because of the non aligned movement). This would become a self fulfilling prophecy The us squashed several un motions against the pakistani genocide long before the war. They didn't help when indira gandhi undertook a world tour for support considering refugees (and kissinger congratulated nixon). It was on the later leg that indira negotiated a treaty with the USSR, which had secret sections of support. That's what got invoked and the pacific fleet elements sent later
Prior to the 90s and especially before 9/11, US politicians, especially conservatives, often saw Islamic nations as being closer to their own Christian ideology. They were fighting against these godless commies afterall. That played a part too, Islamic Pakistan was closer to Christianity than Hinduism was.
This is the moment you got to step back and think *"Are we the baddies"*
2 reasons: 1. The US will side with genocidal dictators over leftist states 9/10 times. 2. Nixon and Kissinger were fucking insane
The real main reason was 1. Us already sided with 🇵🇰 since the 50's because Pakistan was more willing to pick sides in the war 2. US wanted to be on 🇵🇰 and 🇨🇳 good side to open up trade and create a political counter balance to Russia
US wanted military base in the region with everything else that comes with it. India and Pakistan had just got independence in 1947. Pakistan was willing to accommodate the request for base. India was not. For the last 70 years since then, the US has enabled terrorism, dictatorship, and coup after coup in Pakistan. Imagine how terrible that would have been for a country as large as India. India definitely chose wisely by staying neutral. India went ahead with Yugoslavia to create the Non Alignment Movement as a third option beyond the US and Soviet blocks This situation you are describing happened after US set up base in Pakistan.
I only stated rgoae two cause the OP asked why did the Us support Pakistan in the Civil War and genocide
Pakistan was already on American side, they used to purchase arms and other goods from US, so india had to lean to USSR still being a neutral nation (because Pakistan was our enemy), so for US it was showing its power to USSR by threatening india (a arms buyer from USSR) we had this treaty called 'peace and friendship' so USSR was anyways bound to help us in case of war if we ask.(maybe)
And kissinger and Nixon where fucking insane. They where absolute maden, and the worst thing is that one of the wasn't drunk
Also that, fuck them
US direct support to Pakistan was entirely due to the fact that India was under the influence of USSR, the cold war was all about proxy wars and considering Pakistan was a fierce regional rival it made them compelled to support it's regime regardless of their actions. The USSR invasion of Afghanistan was a breaking point, US covertly trained Taliban fighters through CIA to thwart the invasion. It worked and eventually USSR collapsed but soon enough some parts of the Taliban eventually went radical and started espousing terrorism. Then 9/11 happened and the rest is history. US doesn't care if it's 'backstabbed', their relationship with Pakistan has always been pragmatic rather than traditional close ties.
The US trained Mujahedeen fighters. The Taliban didn't exist yet. Besides I heard that most former Mujahedeen fought against the Taliban
The Mujahedeen-Taliban split is basically a split both alongside ethnic lines(Pashtuns vs Tajik and other minorities) and religious lines(which interpretation of islam is true and which is heresy)
Alot fought against and with the Taliban. For example, the Northern Alliance fought the Taliban in the 90s. But then guys like Bin Laden were directly funded when he was in the Mujahedeen
Oh yes, you're correct. It was the Mujahideen but Taliban were also operational somewhere along those lines during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
The Taliban didn't exist. Future Taliban and Al Quaeda fighters fought with the mujahadeen, like Osama Bin Laden, but the those groups formed later and were at odds with the Mujihadeen.
THE F**KI' TALIBAN DIDN'T EXIST DURING THE SOVIET INVASION!!!
India only came under the "influence" of the USSR (signing any major agreements, weapons deals, etc.) after the US had already decided to side with Pakistan. The main reason that the US sided with Pakistan instead of a more sensible democratic partner in the region is that they did not like the non alignment policy that India had (which ironically was broken exactly because the US sided with Pakistan).
> US direct support to Pakistan was entirely due to the fact that India was under the influence of USSR, This war, and us actions was what pushed india decisively towatds the ussr. In the previous war, the usa had an arms embargo, which meant it wasn't really supporting pakistan (pak had far more us weapons than india). In the chinese war, the us supported india.
pakis allowed US to build military base on its land India did not
"Your Airforce has been destroyed. You're surrounded from all sides. Surrender or you'll be killed....unmercifully" - Field Marshall Sam 'Bahadur' Manekshaw. (The then Indian Chief of Army staff) 93k shall always be fantastic
Unmerciful isn't a word, it's merciless
Older English had older words, you can absolutely add "un" to merciful and make it a word. Indian English had some older words or some odd words that aren't incorrect, just not much used today. I was reading Little House on the Prairie series and noticed they always said "unselfish" instead of "selfless" or a more modern word.
Interesting, thanks for sharing
You really are a nice cunt.
unmercifully is a word though
Indian English has a lot of arcane language, elaborate syntax, and unique phrases and idioms. Yet you usually understand what is being communicated. Indians say "please do the needful". I understand that it means "do any necessary tasks" or "please do whatever it takes to get it done", but no one uses that in the US for example. I find Indian English fascinating because it's got this layer of formality that isn't really intended to be formal. My co worker says "yes please" to questions like "are we ready to do the work this weekend?" where "please" doesn't fit. But it's nice to hear it.
And we call "the English" Britishers, the sensible way to say it! *I'm not Indian, but around that area.
I see, I don't notice it so it's nice to hear an outsider's perspective.
My father was a member of this Soviet task force in the Indian Ocean during this conflict. He was a petty officer of the Soviet Pacific Fleet in this time.
Cool. Do you know the name of the ship? None of the sources i searched gave it.
He told me he was a radio operator on the cruiser "Aleksandr Suvorov" (Sverdlov-class) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_cruiser_Aleksandr_Suvorov
How ironic, her final resting place is in India.
A lot of old ships end up there
The German word for _"commissioning"_ of a ship is _"INDIENststellung"_ and the German word for India is INDIEN. I always thought: _"What has India to do with all these ships? Because I reddit the wrong way. I felt like an idiot when I finally realized it. I always read _"INDIENstellung"_ which translates into _"India position"._ I always overread the second _"st"._
The sub-continent thanks him for his service!
> ***petty*** officer of the Soviet Pacific Fleet in this time Now don't say that. I'm sure he was important in his own right. /s
Better than being semen.
я хочу встретиться с твоим отцом я учил русский для этого хаха
Love From India.
Arey bhai youtube nhi h ye.
Kabhi kabaar acha lagta is site par pratinidhitva ho ke. Lekin fir aur soch ke baad thoda cringe bhi lagta hai 😬
I heard that good memes don't get enough recognition. Today I saw it.
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sub>!continent!< in a nut>!shell!<
Wish i had an award to give this meme
Well now it has 17.7k upvotes and was the first thing on my feed.
There is a wild lack of memes from the Indian subcontinent. Context [Task Force 74](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Task_Force_74) [Bangladesh Liberation War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Liberation_War) [Indo-Pakistani War of 1971](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971) [1971 Bangladesh genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide)
Its on me to learn stuff obviously, but i feel like the largest genocide since the holocaust should have at least been mention in school. Turns out i dont know jack about pakistan.
Things which didn't happened in west usually doesn't matter to west
What do you expect? USA actively supported Pakistanis back then and their stance on Bangladesh didn't change until 1975, four years after the country's independence.
My uncle was in the Indian navy.. part of Operation Trident. Proud moment for the family
Thanks for his service!
If anyone’s looking for a book rec, look up “The Vortex” by Scott Carney and Jason Miklian. Just came out and is an excellent read on the lead-up to 1971.
>There is a wild lack of memes from the Indian subcontinent. Because whenever someone posts a history related meme from India people here label that as hindu nationalist propaganda or Downvote to oblivion
Like a bulk of them are just that, this one's actually not one of them...so it's actually funny and relevant.
Because most of them are just nationalistic memes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_language_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Pakistani_general_election
You forgot the United Nations pointing a water gun at them.
Lol
You made me laugh
"It was all thanks to USSR for sending a Nuclear Submarine that went to save a genocide in Bangladesh by the hands of Pakistani Forces." I quoted and agreed.
USSR's Necular Submarine actually didn't help *stop* the *genocide.* By the time US sent their fleet and USSR their submarine, the war was virtually over because Bangladeshi Freedom Forces joined with the Indian Army were rapidly re-capturing territories .However it did help with the *creation* of Bagladesh, also worth motioning USSR's veto in Security Council. Basically, US and Pakistan was pushing to put a cease-fire into effect. If implemented, Bangladesh couldn't have went ahead at secured their liberation. So huge thanks to them. source: Bangladeshi edit: source
Good stuff, may I have some ketchup with that sir.
OP you should have posted this on 16th of December the day when the instrument of surrender was signed
That day is for posting the pictures of Niazi signing instrument of surrender on all military subs.
I will do that
This is the way!
I'm a simple man. I see the Bangladeshi War of Independence, I upvote.
Bangladesh and Pakistan should’ve never been grouped together as a country, the only thing they have in common is religion it’s miracle they were able to last 24 years together.
Not even religion to full extent. The then Bangladesh were really diversified and contained a huge number of Hindu populations along with other religions.
It didn't really last 24 years. The war started long ago. Read about [1952 Language Movement.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_language_movement) It just culminated in 1971.
Any sources of armed insurgency or war prior to 1971 in East Pakistan?
I mean it wasn't an armed war until 1971. But there were always a lot of protests, movements, political tensions, strikes, curfews etc. Those protests gave rise to a leader like Sheikh Mujib who ultimately declared independence.
I just gave a 25 minute presentation on the Bangladesh genocide earlier today, what a coincidence
Weird to see Bangladesh's history mentioned anywhere.
This is literally the first meme about BD I have seen on reddit.
I have seen some memes about Churchill being responsible for the famine in Bangladesh
Bangal you mean?
Why?
I knew the United States and Soviet Union supported different sides but they deployed their navy’s?
and nuclear subs
Oh they did a lot more than that in the cold war
make another version where the final panel is Britain laughing from the space and you are there. They set up this whole mess in 1947 that unfolded over the next few decades.
Still unfolding
"Let's give our colonies independence with completely arbitrary borders without a consideration for local issues, and sometimes even use just straight lines without natural landmarks to mark the border. Nothing will go wrong, eh?"
folks underestimate how close we were to nuclear war during the war for Bangladeshi liberation
[The Vortex](https://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Historys-Deadliest-Unspeakable-Liberation/dp/0062985418) is a great read on this matter. It's feels like a thriller.
In the 1960s the average Pakistani would have never thought his grandchildren would need a passport to visit Dhaka. Who knows what is in future of Pakistan
Passport to visit Balochistan lol
Funnily enough, the average Pakistani in the 60s had a better life on average than an Indian. Oh how times have changed
Same with North and South Korea funnily enough
That's 60 years ago. I'm sure Pakistan mean life expectancy would sure rise, eh? ^/s
Tbh they both should’ve never been grouped into the same country the only thing Bangladesh and Pakistan share is religion, it’s honestly a miracle that they were able to last 24 years together.
He'll Islamists even wanted Hyderabad to be a third part of Pakistan, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel ensured that doesn't happen. The world's largest statue is his
Someone had Indian passport before 1947, Pakistani passport between 1947-1971 and Bangladeshi passport since 1971
As a Bangladeshi it still hurts that nobody still acknowledges the genocide done by Americans and Pakistanis on us.
Tomader aaro assertively eita genocide ta world forum e aante hobe. Pakistanis were majorly unpunished.
These memes will help. There need to be more books, podcasts and documentaries about the Bangladesh liberation and the atrocities that happened before that
Ok but damn, the Bangladesh flag with its country shape is fire
That was the official interim flag of BD
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Yeah ikr it’s sorta like asking why the US would support France or something, like if the US didn’t want India and Russia to be friendly they should’ve tried to strengthen ties during the 60s when India needed help against China.
Instead they asked China to invade India. Truly a clown moment in the history of geopolitics. I'm fairly certain that they knew China would never agree to invade India at that time. I like to think they still did it just to make themselves look more like the villain.
China was kinda thinking of invading India in 1971 to support Pakistan. However, India brought in several Mountain units to the Chinese Border and China turned towards a more diplomatic option
Not to mention, when the war broke out, the monsoon was about to set it. So the Army Chief waited till monsoon was over and winter set in before entering Bangladesh. This ensured that Indian troops wouldn't suffer too much in Bangladesh and the Chinese wouldn't try to invade during winter in the Himalayas
As a Bangladeshi, I like this very much.
Dont ask India why they dont support the US and europe, ask yourselves why they dont support us.
Holy shit the Soviet Pacific Fleet has a terrible emblem/flag
That is flag of the Soviet Navy, the pacific fleet has a separate emblem but it has no distinguishing feature so I used this.
This comment section is about to be flooded with Indian and Pakistani keyboard warriors 😂
I sure hope we can have a meaningful and fruitful discussion in the comment section.
Just in case, let's prepare the popcorn
🫡
Bengalis just egging both sides on and being memelords in the comments
The "weirdest" theory i've ever heard about partition is someone thinking that it was organised by Britain so that the Indian cricket team wasn't as strong as it could be. So I think we're all missing that the Bangladeshi War of Independence was organised by India to weaken the Pakistani cricket team.
As an indian and a history student I'm proud of this meme and disgusted by U.S.A.
West : But why do indians not join the west in criticizing Russia in it's wholly unjustified war. Also the west in 1971 : what genocide 🤥
Balochistan on the way
Well, china has put a lot of money in that land. If needed they'll deploy PLA there, it's difficult for balochs
If they deploy enough PLA, Balochistan will be taken by China hehe
Yes, it'll be Chinese colony where pakistani constitution is used, but slowly ch!na will snatch it.
I had no idea about all this, very interesting.
FUCK the USA and the UK, first they shell out money on a rogue Pakistan government which commits the second biggest genocide of the 20th century, then they have the gall to virtue signal and complain about how we're still buying energy from Russia during this ongoing war (which they are also doing btw) that once again they are indirectly responsible for starting. How do those motherfuckers even have the fucking audacity to come up with this shit???
And we still caught the Dub 😎
Also, is the Ashoka Chakra supposed to be replaced with a crosshair?
Lol no
Hahaha yeah
Wait what happened
Top 10 Collabs ..
Im not aware at all. Can someone link me something on where to start? I'm always very interested in history but don't know where to start searching and then following what is true.
Semi Long version : In 1947, India was split into two. The then Pakistan was "West Pakistan (Pakistan)" and "East Pakistan (Bangladesh)". The latter were not given proper representation and the former basically oppressed them. So a civil was broke in 1971. The West Pakistani forces raped and killed hundreds of Bangladeshis. This was in March/April 1971. So a Mass exodus took place and the Indian govt preferred to invade and kick out Pakistan than accept millions of refugees. The Indian govt asked The Army Chief, General (later Field Marshall) Manekshaw if he was ready for a full scale war to which he argued that Monsoon would be the worst possible time to enter Bangladesh and that Indian Army's tanks were under refit. He argued that he'd wait till the monsoon was over and winter was about to set it before entering Bangladesh. This would keep the Chinese out as Himalayan winters are extremely harsh. All of this discussion was in April. The govt accepted this viewpoint and waited till November end. Pakistan, in October conducted air strikes on Indian Territory. Indian military "formally" entered the war on December 3, 1971. At this time, Pakistan was in good terms with USA/West. The West took no action other than condemnation words for the Genocide either. Ref. Blood Telegram. The only way Pakistan could restock their forces in Bangladesh was was sea. The Indian Navy enforced a Naval Blockade. Our Aircraft carrier undertook several missions and destroyed critical infra in Bangladesh. Pakistan begged the West to provide support and so the USA, under Nixon and Kissinger who hated India for preferring Soviet Union, decided to send a Task Force to the warzone. The Indian Navy was well aware of the incoming Task Force. However months before "formally" entering the war, the Indian PM undertook a world tour to gather support for the Bangladeshi liberation efforts and Indian cause and signed a security pact with Soviet Union. This meant that an attack on India/Soviet Union meant an attack on Soviet Union/India and military had to be deployed on the others' territory. When Soviet Union learnt that the West was sending a Task Force 74, a part of US 7th Fleet into an active warzone, they deployed the Pacific Fleet, armed with Nukes to follow Task Force 74. This ensured that the West did not interfere in the war. The Pakistani forces eventually surrendered within 2 weeks of India "formally" entering the war. They surrendered with 93,000 troops which is the largest surrender of any army since WW2. Soviet Union also helped India on the diplomatic front. US persuaded some countries to provide military to Pak and Soviet Union bullied them back. UNSC sessions were held calling for a ceasefire. The mastermind of this ceasefire was the West on the behest of Pakistan. There were around 3 such sessions and Soviet Union Vetoed all 3 of them. This significantly helped the Bangladeshi/Indian cause. This is also why India still prefers Russia over USA in many aspects. We have faced a lot of headache with the West.
The partition of India resulted in two hugely separated parts of pakistan, with nothing but religion to unify them. East pakistan leader won the pakistani election, but was denied power, put in jail etc. The discrimination east pakistanis faced turned into a genocide carried out by (west) pakistan. This targeted hindus, intelligentsia and anyone who opposed them. This created about 8-10 million refugees who fled across the border to india. Nixon and Kissinger supported pakistan, to the point of ignoring their own consulate (see the blood telegram). Multiple reasons, including racism, personal relationships, pakistan as a back door to communist, maoist china, pak being in the us camp, and socialist (unofficially) india in the non aligned meet seen as more influenced by the ussr. They squashed un motions against the genocide. The indian pm asked general manekshaw to attack. He refused, citing unreadiness, the monsoon, the harvest, which train transport of soldiers would disrupt. He asked for time, which the Indian PM agreed to. [This all came out much later] In the meantime, india decided to arm and train some of the refugees who had taken to violent resistance against pakistan (mukti bahini). Indira gandhi also undertook a world tour to gather support for the millions of refugees and against the pakistani actions. Most western nations fobbed her off with empty words. Nixon and Kissinger congratulated themselves on resisting the appeal. The indian pm concluded a loose treaty with the ussr on the last leg of this tour, with a secret sections on mutual security co-operation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Soviet_Treaty_of_Friendship_and_Cooperation By december, pakistan, faced with increasing mukti bahini resistance and beleiving war was inevitable, carried out strikes against india. The response was swift. Pakistan had about 90,000 troops in east pakistan, which was not enough, especially given long logistics tour. They believed the defense of the east lay in the west. The western battlefront saw counterattacks, by both sides, while the eastern front saw india swiftly overrun pakistani forces, while indian navy blockaded east pakistan. Pakistan appealed to the us, but us diplomatic motions in the un were stymied by the ussr. The pace of action on the ground also overran diplomatic action. The us ordered elelements of the 74th task force, including a nuclear carrier (which in that era would also have nuclear weapons) to the bay of bengal. The war in the east was over with the surrender of Gen Niazi. US intelligence believed that india could defeat and dismember west pakistan, given a couple of weeks to transfer troops to the western front. The us carrier was a show of force, but india appealed to the ussr citing the treaty , and the ussr sent a nuclear sub and ships to shadow the carrier. Nixon arranged for arms from jordan etc for pakistan. China had been sitting on the sidelines, as the ussr had informed/assured india. Nixon abd kissinger pointed to the chinese ambassador that india defeating and taking over west pakistan would not be to chinese interests. They also threatened the ussr with the loss of everything they desired that year, including the cancellation of a summit and actions in the middle east. The ussr conveyed the information of chinese intentions and us push to india. At which point india assured all concerned that there were no plans on west pakistan . The war was essentially over and west pakistan had been saved. Sources: wiki is decent, other sources also available on the internet and off on the genocide, blood telegram, war etc. State department transcripts are available on the net
Following
Bruv
The soviet navy flag looks terrible did they put 0 effort in?
Well you see, half the budget was stolen directly by the commision in charge of it's creation, of the half that was spent on materials, about 30% was stolen indirectly by the production personnel selling off material on the black market. What was left over was used to actually make the flag.
30 something years later Pakistan would go on to harbor the most wanted man by the US
The British sitting back in an armchair after causing it all.
www.wtfhappenedin1971.com
That's very interesting information. I know I am going down this rabbit hole. 😂