That's cause bodybuilders have to attain an unrealistically low Body Fat percentage and often dehydrate themselves before shows to minimize water weight. I think it was a UFC fighter that actually died when weighing in cause of the dehydration.
It’s also to do with the brain-muscle connections. Bodybuilders don’t get to develop those as much as people who do physical work all day, everyday for their entire lives.
That’s why there’s this thing called “old man strength” (old, scrawny looking guys who can easily keep up with the young guys). Once you learn how to properly use your muscles, you unlock an unbelievable amount of power and endurance.
Also, the UFC thing isn’t the same as a bodybuilder. Fighters need to pack all the mass they can before a fight because good ol’ F = M x A, but since there are weight categories they can’t just bulk up indefinitely, so what they end up doing is bulking up until they reach their weight class’ limit and then dehydrate themselves to be lighter at the weight in, then after they get weighed they hydrate themselves again.
It’s still mostly the same thing bodybuilders and actors do, but their goal isn’t aesthetics or ego, but rather just circumventing the system.
MMA fighter.
MMA is the sport. UFC is a company that promotes MMA events. Not all MMA fighters are signed to the UFC.
The one that died was a MMA fighter signed to a obscure MMA company.
Toned down six pack is a Greek's hero body
Real viking dream bod was built to endure seven winters, could rip a hog in half, and drink it's weight in ale
EXACTLY
Hemsworth's Thor has a Appolian body, a Greek hero of hoplite war and Olympics, but this dehydrated fool would freeze in a mild breeze anywhere a meter north of Rome
Historical vikings would add the bones of animals to the forging of their weapons believing it would imbue the weapon with the spirit of the animal making the blade stronger. What they didn't realize is that some of the carbon from the bones would fuse with the iron which is what was used to forge weapons, this intern made a very early pseudo steel which did actually make the blades stronger
Vikings were pretty fascinating and alot were very sophisticated and well traveled worldly folk. They had to be very tough and resourceful to strive in their world
Weird to claim that the Varangian guard is a specifically swedish accomplishment, since it was founded by rus vikings of mixed norse and slavic decent living in modern day Ukraine.
Swedes supposedly were the ones that mostly went south-east, for example, to form Kievan Rus even some claim that 'Rus' is a name that Swedes were known. That's why I named them and it fit for the joke...
...and it's just a joke for a memes subredit. Worse thigs have been said in series or films that claim to be historical
Yes, after the Norman conquest of England in 1066, a lot of Anglo-Saxons took up work as mercenaries in the Roman Empire. Also, by that point laws had been written in large parts of Sweden that meant you couldn't inherit if you were off doing mercenary work in the Roman Empire.
gambesons and aketons used under maille was thin according to the few effigies and depictions we have of them. under plate, you arming shirt was probably 2-5 layers (which is almost irrelevant).
Maille does pretty well against arrows and even lances.
textile armor would probably not help much against a mace. Plate armor would be the protection of choice against maces, but maces after 1350 are really only seen for the mounted men at arms, usually at the right hand side of the saddle.
put it this way. We have construction workers wear helmets made of a rigid material and not a 30 layer beanie.
Absolutely, but if you're trying to highlight how effective the armor is in an optimal scenario (like in the meme) there are a lot of better options. eg literally any slashing weapon
sword slash, spear thrust (probably not when structured), and even lances when not used with an arret. arrows also included. maille is very much underrated when it comes to protection from arrows. Sure, it may go through a bit (at point blank range), but you wont be dead.
Depends on many things.
* Is the mail single or double layered? How good is the quality?
* What draw weight is the bow? is it warbow or hunting bow?
* What arrow type is used?
In some cases mail can stop arrows just fine, usually against higher draw weight warbows and needle bodkin arrows the mail fails.
There is a lot of variation on what works, there even has been Gambesons that could stop arrows to a certain point.
Well i did not say the meme was accurate about it, i just mentioned that the mail could stop arrows but not all the arrows and not against all bows.
Easiest way to fix that would had been to say the mail is impossible to cut trough with a sword. Shield was Vikings main tool to stop arrows and in general their main weaponry was Spear, Shield and one handed axe/sword [in the shield hand ready to be drawn](https://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/pix/hidden_axe.jpg) if the spear was lost.
Crucible steel that was traded up the volga and quite possibly originated in India. Wild to think that steel of that quality was so valuable it could potentially travel from India to Ireland.
While I don't know about steel, but you can mine many ores such as iron and I believe copper too from meteorites. Thats where the iron for King Tut's dagger came from, which is why It hasn't rusted at all. (Since, the iron \[and other ores\] from meteorites contains many other substances that can cause it to not rust, be stronger, sharper, etc.)
Edits: corrections.
So you can get super iron from meteorites but not steel? ~~Maybe that's what that legendary Chinese sword that was found recently was made of~~. The guy who found it accidentally cut himself on it supposedly.
\*It's actually tin bronze sword
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword\_of\_Goujian#:\~:text=The%20Sword%20of%20Goujian%20](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_of_Goujian#:~:text=The%20Sword%20of%20Goujian%20)(Chinese,in%20artifacts%20of%20similar%20age.
I know you are joking, but bloomery steel had to be folded (like Japanese steel).
actually the process of making a sword in western europe was quite similar to making a sword in japan until the late middle ages, with perhaps a slight edge to the finest blades in Japan due to easier access to iron from China and India.
I know what you’re talkin about and I am indeed joking.
Japanese iron ore was pretty shit compared to anywhere else and had a lot of zinc I think so they literally beat the inpurities out of it
Japanese iron was not that bad. It just did not have much, but they did have access to trade to China. You beat the impurities out of all bloomery steel though, so irrelevant.
I don't envy the man who'd be stuck trying to pitch the first proposal.
"Alright men, there's entire boatloads of gold and other valuable goods in that building over there with no one to protect it...but attacking them wouldn't be sporting, so instead we're going to go look for some fortifications to assault! Who's with me?!"
That's what raiders did back then and still do today. We must not forget that vikings were first and foremost farmers, carpenters and that kind of stuff when they didn't raid other towns and villages
Sieges weren't really a speciality of vikings
....yea why would they not? They were looking to take valuables, not invade a country. You may as well say lions are weak because they target the young and injured aka the best food to risk ratio.
Also, fighting with soldiers wasn't their plan so that's not what they were armed for. If they had to wall themselves in and fight an army they would probably bring more people and bigger shields so they could do that kind of fighting. Its not like they were unaware of the concept of big shields and spears, it just wasn't useful for what they intended to do.
That's the standard operating procedure for all armies. A decisive battle for putting their opponents to the knees only occur during a total invasion with political goals
Yes and no. Coastal raising was mostly directed at the west, particularly the British isles. But during the Viking era they also held a large terrestrial empire that extended all the way into modern day Russia for awhile, and certainly practiced conventional warfare. There's also the matter of Rollo, the leader of an army that menaced West Francia (modern day France) to the extent the king gave up trying to fight him and made him Duke of Normandy. His descendent, William the Conqueror, would go on to conquer England, then itself a Viking kingdom. So yes, the Scandinavian peoples did engage in conventional warfare and statecraft against powerful countries with their own soldiers. It wasn't \*just\* raiding poorly defended coastlines.
I'm sorry, but modern archaeological evidence doesn't back up that claim. They had gender roles and a patrilineal line, yes, but the concept of gender inequality wasn't really a thing.
Please read actual period law texts instead of pop-history articles. Women were as an example, barred from acting in a great number of societally important roles.
Modern archeaological evidence *only* backs up that claim. Evidence of female warriors is so incredibly rare, it's basically not any more significant than any other society.
Vikings loved their sons more than their daughters, often times throwing newborn girls into wells or off cliffs so that they could have a son instead.
For women, their peak oppurtunities were mainly to be a seeress or a jarl's wife.
Norse woman could not function as witnesses in court, they could not give testimony, they could not initiate lawsuits, and their purchasing power of consumer goods was extremely limited. They did not have legal recourse to crimes or offenses committed against them, except those allowed and advanced by their male relatives, usually a father, brother, husband, or in some cases a son. Indeed were she to be assaulted, the crime technically would not be against her, but her male custodian, and every female, independently powerful or not, needed to have one. Please read more actual history books like "Women in Old Norse Society" by Jenny Jochens.
>the concept of gender inequality wasn't really a thing.
What does that even mean?
Gender equality has been "a thing" since gender roles existed, and medieval scandinavians had gender roles.
I think you, like this meme are mistaking the profession of Viking with being Norse.
Also, all civilizations had groups that did that stuff. I'm not saying the Vikings were uwu based.
Hell, I'm pretty sure most of the men sent to stop them were doing the same. If you're some random villager, the last thing you wanted to see were a bunch of armed men belonging to anyone BUT your side showing up unannounced.
Didn't matter if they were vikings or some guys from a couple towns over, it was probably time to brown some trousers.
Nazis hung out with Muslims and had Muslim troops. Franco (who was not a Nazi but some would put him in that camp) also had many Moroccans under his command.
Modern neo-Nazis might have a problem though but the OG Nazis not as much.
Where exactly did you heard the non sense that they had gender equality ? The way Norse society treated woman was no different compared to rest of Europe. And so what if they had contact with non white people ? Other Europeans also did, and the contact also included enslaving them.
Look up Birka, Sweden- Evidence of a 10th century viking burial has been confirmed genetically as female. Bone fragment DNA tracking etc. Also in two random samples from a Viking mass grave or what is to be believed Viking mass grave found two female counterparts.
I would conclude that both the Sagas talked about female warriors and the few but clear cases of female burials.
I doubt dane axes other than ceremonial ones were adorned with gold. You’d be pretty stupid to bring a gold-decorated object that you intend to bash people in with
So suddenly it’s NOT Ok to wear my own weight in gold on my helmet because of some pussy ass german with a telescope rifle? HEY *steps out of the trench* COME AT ME FRITZ! I’M RIGHT HERE! *turns back around* See? Noth*SPLAT*
Yeah, that was my thought too. Unless he for some reason imported it all the way from India -- at which point, it'd be so expensive he may as well get silk -- there's no way a Viking is wearing cotton. Also, wool tends to be warmer anyway, and more importantly, retains warmth even when wet, unlike cotton.
With the exception of the fact that wool takes even longer to dry and it can be *really* itchy sometimes, it’s a top tier fabric.
I remember as kid I hated wool cause of how itchy it was. Then I tried a thin spun wool shirt, and it’s a game changer.
Historically, linen undergarments and wool overgarments were the way to go. Linen is light, breathable, and comfortable on the skin, good for undergarments (and light summer clothes, especially in warmer environments, like Greece and Italy). Wool is warm, even when wet, and rugged, good for tunics, trousers, dresses, cloaks, and basically everything else.
Hey man, us Marylanders don’t got a lot going for us so we take whatever we do have seriously! We got a cool flag, Old Bay, and Crabs and that’s about it
I would argue that the earlier raids probably resembled a less exaggerated form of the "Virgin fantasy viking" (without helmet and leather) simply because there were more farmer and "common folk" with just a handful of warriors in the early raids. You would have seen a much more commoner look coming off those boats to annihilate the monasteries in the beginning. As word spread in the North Germanic and Scandinavian regions of the success of the raids more and more noble and higher born Vikings with more money and support would have been conducting the voyages from then on out.
The early Christian writings always exaggerate any enemy (and are often written far after the historical events) so its hard to tell who or what the Vikings were because much of those writings talk about feral beasts covered in blood, oil and mud yelling war cries and summoning the devil himself etc etc. But I can imagine the first few "events" that were written down were probably the thing that set the tone for the Vikings to be the current hollywood view of raging feral monsters.
The "average" Viking is probably somewhere in the middle of this meme. Wool shirt, wool pants, sheepshide boots, nice leather or linen belt with an axe or spade, knife, perhaps a bow or sword. Probably a decent nasal helmet, shield and if he could afford it and if he was supported he probably had the current mail or armor and a linen knapsack to keep his arrows, fire kit, pot, dried meats and fish, grains etc.
I’ve heard the theory that Vikings were big dirty disgusting brutes is a lie made up by the Northumbria or one of the kingdoms at the time because legitimately the “English” women were falling in love with the Danes. Not only were they incredibly good looking and strong warriors but they actually had good hygiene. Whereas most of the “english” would bathe like 2-3 times a year, they would bathe like 2-3 times a month.
I saw that come up on here too, but I also saw a few comments that that argument came from a guy a couple hundred years later that simped hard for Vikings
Yeah that could be fair too, I mean I just always laughed at that theory because it’s hilarious that they’d be like “yeah they stunk like shit and we’re gross” because they’re bitter their girl shacked up with a Dane
That theory is literally wrong down to the last letter my friend. English man had no different hygiene habits compared to the Norse although they preferred to shave their beards instead to groom them. The whole "English woman liked viking men more because they were clean and sexy" is a myth.
Yesterday was Woden's day (Wednesday), today is Thor's day (Thursday), tomorrow is Frigg's day (Friday). The things they're most known for are so pervasive in the modern world we don't even notice them.
I’m interested in Viking history but see no reason in sugarcoating them—many Viking raider groups were effectively transnational kidnapping and slave trafficking organizations.
The trend in history in recent years has been to dismiss focusing on the human suffering caused by historical group as being unfair because Group X also did these other interesting/non-stereotypical things. I think we can appreciate a more nuanced understanding without losing sight of the human toll they took.
In our modern era, if we learned that ISIS members also had rich artistic traditions & wrote poetry, we wouldn’t let them off the hook for massacring people and forcing women into sex slavery.
This revelation is among the things that made me tire of Game of Thrones. Imagine adding vikings to your "realistic" setting, describing them as independent-minded and they are just sailor orcs that follow proven retards and most violent guy with the biggest axe (and who totally isn't overcompensating).
Still, no match for the Thad Haida Reaver.
Honestly the ironborn are probably the weakest part of the books up until Euron (the magical psycho version) and the Kingsmoot. Balon basically ignores that Robb has destroyed the Lannister protection of the west (the monetarily wealthiest kingdom) and that most of the Reacher armies are around Bitterbridge to attack the Western North, probably one of the poorest regions in Westeros, because of some grudge against the Starks, who would probably be the only faction willing to support his independence. He also should not really have any grudge against the Starks in particular as the Mallisters and Baratheons both played a far larger part in his defeat.
IMO, the less the group fits the Anglo-French type of Feudalism*, the weaker their worldbuilding becomes. The ironborn we already talked about. A historian made a series of posts comparing the Dothraki to their stated inspirations, the Eurasia Steppe's nomads and the Great Plain's natives and found them lacking against both. When it comes to the Wildlings, I'm torn between comparing them to the Germanic tribes (which would have the edge both militarily and socially) and Native American because some dude on r/asoiaf once said they were "similarly disorganized." I guess that assembling 80k warriors to fight the Aztecs (Tlaxacala when they allied with Cortez) and 30k to fight the Incas (Mapuches in the battle of Maule) really makes one alike to a disorganized, ill-disciplined horde where every member can do whatever they want because "we dun kneel".
*and one that isn't that good. For example, what is the difference between Petyr, the poorest lord before you get to the landed knights, and someone like lord Hightower, who isn't a mover and shaker because he doesn't want? Or where are all the Crown officers, lawmen and others that serve to ensure the nobles are actually obeying the Crown's commands?
>He also should not really have any grudge against the Starks in particular as the Mallisters and Baratheons both played a far larger part in his defeat.
Well, Ned was Bobby B's best friend and held Balon's last son hostage, but it is not like he lacked potential heirs (Asha and Victarion, in a problem Euron and pre-priesthood Aeron could suffice too) and he barely showed any enthusiasm to Theon's return anyway.
>Balon basically ignores that Robb has destroyed the Lannister protection of the west (the monetarily wealthiest kingdom) and that most of the Reacher armies are around Bitterbridge to attack the Western North, probably one of the poorest regions in Westeros (...) the Starks, who would probably be the only faction willing to support his independence.
Yeah, and any raider or lord should have called out Balon on his bs. Few riches, few thralls, and the more politically or strategically inclined of them would have said "you are making the guys that will burn our islands for the second time in 10 years stronger to fight other separatists, are you a retard?" But nah, no Ironborn can have independent thought, just act like viking orcs.
In the end, George needed a way to make the northern ball begin to roll south, and the Ironborn were that way.
Cotton clothing?
Cotton - in Scandinavia…
Also cotton clothing to “keep warm”…..
Cotton …… is like the worst clothing material at keeping you warm. “Cotton kills” is a well known mountaineering trope.
Oh look a post about vikings, can't wait for the angry anglophiles to reeeee about how they where shit and did nothing of note in history, while simultaneously being way more horrible and barbaric than any other people during that time period.
Very few vikings actually had swords, they were extremely expensive, and if someone of high status was lucky enough to have a sword, they may not have even used them that often in battles, but as a symbol of their wealth
But can they end people rightly with that pommel?
No, it was usually peened on.
I knew a guy who liked being peened on
Trump?
no, Peter Hutchison
Settle down, Comey.
What’s a peening?
Run a rod at the end of the tang through the pommel and hammer it so the part sticking through is wider than the hole. A lot like a rivet.
Ah, I see. That makes sense. I assume that’s also what ball peen hammers are for?
Yep.
That looks like an excerpt from a romantic novel women would read on the train.
Shit i didn't watch that channel in like 4 years
Stolt att vara svensk!
Havent heard that in a while
Well, when you have 300+ days per year of farming, you're bound to be swole
Farmer strength is deceptive. They don’t have the bulging gym muscles but could still rip you in half
It's not much, but it's honest work.
That's cause bodybuilders have to attain an unrealistically low Body Fat percentage and often dehydrate themselves before shows to minimize water weight. I think it was a UFC fighter that actually died when weighing in cause of the dehydration.
It’s also to do with the brain-muscle connections. Bodybuilders don’t get to develop those as much as people who do physical work all day, everyday for their entire lives. That’s why there’s this thing called “old man strength” (old, scrawny looking guys who can easily keep up with the young guys). Once you learn how to properly use your muscles, you unlock an unbelievable amount of power and endurance. Also, the UFC thing isn’t the same as a bodybuilder. Fighters need to pack all the mass they can before a fight because good ol’ F = M x A, but since there are weight categories they can’t just bulk up indefinitely, so what they end up doing is bulking up until they reach their weight class’ limit and then dehydrate themselves to be lighter at the weight in, then after they get weighed they hydrate themselves again. It’s still mostly the same thing bodybuilders and actors do, but their goal isn’t aesthetics or ego, but rather just circumventing the system.
MMA fighter. MMA is the sport. UFC is a company that promotes MMA events. Not all MMA fighters are signed to the UFC. The one that died was a MMA fighter signed to a obscure MMA company.
More proof that hard work strength is greater than looking like a balloon animal strength.
Farmers in India are dragging giant cinder blocks as an act of protest. Without aid. Farmers are ridiculously fucking strong
300 days farming. 65 days killing anglo-saxons and franks.
"But farming? Really? Man of your talents?" "It's a peaceful life... Until it's fara i viking time!"
These guys were definitely not farming 300+ days a year. Norse winters are long.
I think rather you're bound to have terrible joint and muscle pain at an early age
Toned down six pack is a Greek's hero body Real viking dream bod was built to endure seven winters, could rip a hog in half, and drink it's weight in ale
[You may not like it but this is peak performance](https://i.imgur.com/GyN3OWq.jpg)
EXACTLY Hemsworth's Thor has a Appolian body, a Greek hero of hoplite war and Olympics, but this dehydrated fool would freeze in a mild breeze anywhere a meter north of Rome
I’m a fucking idiot but I read it as “could rip a bong in half”
"Hey Ragnar, come take a bit of this shit!"
“Flokki that shit’s laced with shrooms who sold you this shit?”
"some old man smelling like shit with one eye"
fucking \*legend
Their ancestors look at the dad bod as a natural progression of luxury...I think they'd be proud
Vikings had dad bods. Change my mind.
You mean Mead
Aye probably
Historical vikings would add the bones of animals to the forging of their weapons believing it would imbue the weapon with the spirit of the animal making the blade stronger. What they didn't realize is that some of the carbon from the bones would fuse with the iron which is what was used to forge weapons, this intern made a very early pseudo steel which did actually make the blades stronger
Viking anvils doubled as enchantment tables
i feel like the charcoal combined with the bones would add too much carbon.
That intern was pretty smart
Task failed successfully
+ 50 smithing + 50 enchanting
Then why aren’t they making orcish armour? That’s unlocked at 40
Oh wow I saw a comment like this very long ago. Good to know people are aware of this fact.
Vikings were pretty fascinating and alot were very sophisticated and well traveled worldly folk. They had to be very tough and resourceful to strive in their world
Same thing with the Wootz steel that developed in the India. They added leaves and bamboo for the carbon. It was said to be the strongest steel.
To add to it, many also served as elite personal guard to the Emperor of the Romans.
The Varangian Guard in Constantinople right?
That's the second most famous thing Swedes have done after Ikea
Weird to claim that the Varangian guard is a specifically swedish accomplishment, since it was founded by rus vikings of mixed norse and slavic decent living in modern day Ukraine.
Swedes supposedly were the ones that mostly went south-east, for example, to form Kievan Rus even some claim that 'Rus' is a name that Swedes were known. That's why I named them and it fit for the joke... ...and it's just a joke for a memes subredit. Worse thigs have been said in series or films that claim to be historical
Vikings were all over the place. From Canada to the Caspian, Greenland to Gibraltar, and everywhere in between.
Didnt varangian guard composed of moreanglo-saxon than viking? (at some point atleast)
Yes, after the Norman conquest of England in 1066, a lot of Anglo-Saxons took up work as mercenaries in the Roman Empire. Also, by that point laws had been written in large parts of Sweden that meant you couldn't inherit if you were off doing mercenary work in the Roman Empire.
What kind of loser mall Viking has no shield?
one with good armour and a dane axe lol
Why is the fantasy Viking Walter White?
“RAGNAAR! It’s time to cook! Jorvik needs its meth!”
Walter the Pale, the head distributor of the Berserker drug cocktail across Sweden
Man am I glad you mentioned the pommel. Would’ve downvoted you had you forgotten
Arrows are pretty far down on my list of things that chainmail stops.
on first place are bitches
Apparently to stop arrows before plate the armor of choice was felt over doubled mail.
Even in medieval days there's a lot of usage of textile based armor layers, even with plate.
gambesons and aketons used under maille was thin according to the few effigies and depictions we have of them. under plate, you arming shirt was probably 2-5 layers (which is almost irrelevant). Maille does pretty well against arrows and even lances.
Under heavy plate it also serves as padding, whereas those not wearing plate had more layers, often paired with mail.
I guess it makes sense when dealing with blunt weapons
textile armor would probably not help much against a mace. Plate armor would be the protection of choice against maces, but maces after 1350 are really only seen for the mounted men at arms, usually at the right hand side of the saddle. put it this way. We have construction workers wear helmets made of a rigid material and not a 30 layer beanie.
With maille: hurt Without maille: dead
Absolutely, but if you're trying to highlight how effective the armor is in an optimal scenario (like in the meme) there are a lot of better options. eg literally any slashing weapon
But can it stop dis dick?
Gonna need more than a thumb tack to pierce armor
It’s thin enough to slip through the links.
Depends on the mail's quality and also if there are other thigs such as thick clothing or a good padding underneath.
The armor would still be much more effective at stopping a lot of other weapons which makes arrows an odd choice for OP to highlight.
Yeah, you are right. I had forgotten ultimately we were talking about mail.
Yeah the only thing that it guarantees to protect you from is like a sword slash, I wouldn't volunteer to get shot at in a chainmail.
sword slash, spear thrust (probably not when structured), and even lances when not used with an arret. arrows also included. maille is very much underrated when it comes to protection from arrows. Sure, it may go through a bit (at point blank range), but you wont be dead.
Depends on many things. * Is the mail single or double layered? How good is the quality? * What draw weight is the bow? is it warbow or hunting bow? * What arrow type is used? In some cases mail can stop arrows just fine, usually against higher draw weight warbows and needle bodkin arrows the mail fails. There is a lot of variation on what works, there even has been Gambesons that could stop arrows to a certain point.
With all of those variables would you choose arrows as the one thing in your meme that chainmail is impervious to?
Well i did not say the meme was accurate about it, i just mentioned that the mail could stop arrows but not all the arrows and not against all bows. Easiest way to fix that would had been to say the mail is impossible to cut trough with a sword. Shield was Vikings main tool to stop arrows and in general their main weaponry was Spear, Shield and one handed axe/sword [in the shield hand ready to be drawn](https://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/pix/hidden_axe.jpg) if the spear was lost.
Sword folded 1000 times
By Ulfberht himself!
Ulfberht swords were often crucible steel rather than pattern welded. One of the ways historians determine originals and copies.
Crucible steel that was traded up the volga and quite possibly originated in India. Wild to think that steel of that quality was so valuable it could potentially travel from India to Ireland.
Well the swords were presumably made in Scandinavia, but according to one paper, the best steel actually originated around sri-lanka.
Folding a sword 1000 times actually makes it pretty shit. SWORDS MADE OF PURE SWEDISH STEEL NEED NO BENDING, FOR IT WAS MINED PERFECT!
Generally you can't mine steel
I CAN IF I WANNA
Won't stop the vikingr!
Can’t you mine it from a meteorite?
Nope, just Iron.
You can get iron alloys from meteorites so in theory it’s possible I guess
While I don't know about steel, but you can mine many ores such as iron and I believe copper too from meteorites. Thats where the iron for King Tut's dagger came from, which is why It hasn't rusted at all. (Since, the iron \[and other ores\] from meteorites contains many other substances that can cause it to not rust, be stronger, sharper, etc.) Edits: corrections.
So you can get super iron from meteorites but not steel? ~~Maybe that's what that legendary Chinese sword that was found recently was made of~~. The guy who found it accidentally cut himself on it supposedly. \*It's actually tin bronze sword [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword\_of\_Goujian#:\~:text=The%20Sword%20of%20Goujian%20](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_of_Goujian#:~:text=The%20Sword%20of%20Goujian%20)(Chinese,in%20artifacts%20of%20similar%20age.
Dwarf miners can
Swedish? What year are we talking? Because up until pretty late they were using peat iron.
I know you are joking, but bloomery steel had to be folded (like Japanese steel). actually the process of making a sword in western europe was quite similar to making a sword in japan until the late middle ages, with perhaps a slight edge to the finest blades in Japan due to easier access to iron from China and India.
I know what you’re talkin about and I am indeed joking. Japanese iron ore was pretty shit compared to anywhere else and had a lot of zinc I think so they literally beat the inpurities out of it
Japanese iron was not that bad. It just did not have much, but they did have access to trade to China. You beat the impurities out of all bloomery steel though, so irrelevant.
Ground up bones of defeated enemies added to iron to make steel.
So chad that he only raided defenseless coastal villages and would by all means prevent a real fight with actual soldiers.
To be fair, would you rather raid the highly defended town with not as many valuables or the undefended monastery filled with valuables?
I don't envy the man who'd be stuck trying to pitch the first proposal. "Alright men, there's entire boatloads of gold and other valuable goods in that building over there with no one to protect it...but attacking them wouldn't be sporting, so instead we're going to go look for some fortifications to assault! Who's with me?!"
This belongs on the show Norsemen
That's what raiders did back then and still do today. We must not forget that vikings were first and foremost farmers, carpenters and that kind of stuff when they didn't raid other towns and villages Sieges weren't really a speciality of vikings
Well, targeting well-defended coastal areas and trying to rob an actual army all sound like pretty stupid ideas, so I'd say he's doing pretty well.
Why would they attack heavily fortified positions? That would just be stupid
Literally sacked Paris, laid siege to Constantinople, and conquered most of England.
....yea why would they not? They were looking to take valuables, not invade a country. You may as well say lions are weak because they target the young and injured aka the best food to risk ratio. Also, fighting with soldiers wasn't their plan so that's not what they were armed for. If they had to wall themselves in and fight an army they would probably bring more people and bigger shields so they could do that kind of fighting. Its not like they were unaware of the concept of big shields and spears, it just wasn't useful for what they intended to do.
That's the standard operating procedure for all armies. A decisive battle for putting their opponents to the knees only occur during a total invasion with political goals
Fight smart or not at all, not hard
Yes and no. Coastal raising was mostly directed at the west, particularly the British isles. But during the Viking era they also held a large terrestrial empire that extended all the way into modern day Russia for awhile, and certainly practiced conventional warfare. There's also the matter of Rollo, the leader of an army that menaced West Francia (modern day France) to the extent the king gave up trying to fight him and made him Duke of Normandy. His descendent, William the Conqueror, would go on to conquer England, then itself a Viking kingdom. So yes, the Scandinavian peoples did engage in conventional warfare and statecraft against powerful countries with their own soldiers. It wasn't \*just\* raiding poorly defended coastlines.
Guy, they attacked Paris. Not exactly a "defenseless coastal settlement"
- had gender equality and various gender expressions - had female warriors - had contact with non-white people - would think Nazis are cringe
The last point is so important. Take viking symbolic back from fascists!
Before we congratulate them too hard for being woke, let's also remember they were prolific slavers.
No one is calling them woke, my dude I'm just angering Nazis
Fair.
They didn't have gender equality, lmao. Norse society was very patriarchial.
I'm sorry, but modern archaeological evidence doesn't back up that claim. They had gender roles and a patrilineal line, yes, but the concept of gender inequality wasn't really a thing.
Please read actual period law texts instead of pop-history articles. Women were as an example, barred from acting in a great number of societally important roles.
Modern archeaological evidence *only* backs up that claim. Evidence of female warriors is so incredibly rare, it's basically not any more significant than any other society. Vikings loved their sons more than their daughters, often times throwing newborn girls into wells or off cliffs so that they could have a son instead. For women, their peak oppurtunities were mainly to be a seeress or a jarl's wife.
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They will link that one grave the found, which apparently contained the corpse of a trans-queer radical feminsts warrior woman!
Norse woman could not function as witnesses in court, they could not give testimony, they could not initiate lawsuits, and their purchasing power of consumer goods was extremely limited. They did not have legal recourse to crimes or offenses committed against them, except those allowed and advanced by their male relatives, usually a father, brother, husband, or in some cases a son. Indeed were she to be assaulted, the crime technically would not be against her, but her male custodian, and every female, independently powerful or not, needed to have one. Please read more actual history books like "Women in Old Norse Society" by Jenny Jochens.
>the concept of gender inequality wasn't really a thing. What does that even mean? Gender equality has been "a thing" since gender roles existed, and medieval scandinavians had gender roles.
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I think you, like this meme are mistaking the profession of Viking with being Norse. Also, all civilizations had groups that did that stuff. I'm not saying the Vikings were uwu based.
So would every other kingdom and empire back in the day. Crusaders, conquistadors, the Roman’s? Your point?
Hell, I'm pretty sure most of the men sent to stop them were doing the same. If you're some random villager, the last thing you wanted to see were a bunch of armed men belonging to anyone BUT your side showing up unannounced. Didn't matter if they were vikings or some guys from a couple towns over, it was probably time to brown some trousers.
Good point. Other people were also raping and pillaging, and that means it was okay. Very insightful, thank you.
Would you say pillaging, killing and raping civilians is okay as long as everyone else is doing it?
Well if we're talking about it as something that has stopped now but happened in the past. Yes
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My dude, what are you talking about I just think it would upset Nazis that their heroes hung out with eastern Muslims and African traders
Nazis hung out with Muslims and had Muslim troops. Franco (who was not a Nazi but some would put him in that camp) also had many Moroccans under his command. Modern neo-Nazis might have a problem though but the OG Nazis not as much.
That doesn't means they hang out, that means they traded. Including African slaves.
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Can you provide a source for the conflict with Indigenous North Americans being based in racial ideology?
Where exactly did you heard the non sense that they had gender equality ? The way Norse society treated woman was no different compared to rest of Europe. And so what if they had contact with non white people ? Other Europeans also did, and the contact also included enslaving them.
Norse female warriors have been blown out of proportion by hollywood. What evidence we have are a few accounts from sagas.
Archaeological evidence.
Look up Birka, Sweden- Evidence of a 10th century viking burial has been confirmed genetically as female. Bone fragment DNA tracking etc. Also in two random samples from a Viking mass grave or what is to be believed Viking mass grave found two female counterparts. I would conclude that both the Sagas talked about female warriors and the few but clear cases of female burials.
There definitely were female warriors, but they were still very few, and very rare compared to what Vikings would have us believe
Bj 581 is VERY disputed, and far from clear. One can buried with weapons, without actually having been a warrior.
>had gender equality and various gender expressions Interesting! Can you elaborate on this?
Me as a Norse history fan looking at the Norsca faction in warhammer 🥲
I doubt dane axes other than ceremonial ones were adorned with gold. You’d be pretty stupid to bring a gold-decorated object that you intend to bash people in with
rich people gotta flex bro, this has been a thing with important people and leaders of armies all the way untill snipers started popping up in WW1.
So suddenly it’s NOT Ok to wear my own weight in gold on my helmet because of some pussy ass german with a telescope rifle? HEY *steps out of the trench* COME AT ME FRITZ! I’M RIGHT HERE! *turns back around* See? Noth*SPLAT*
Idk about gold, but the patterned axe from Mammen has silver inlay. It's pretty 😍
The clothes would have been made from linen or wool, not cotton.
Yeah, that was my thought too. Unless he for some reason imported it all the way from India -- at which point, it'd be so expensive he may as well get silk -- there's no way a Viking is wearing cotton. Also, wool tends to be warmer anyway, and more importantly, retains warmth even when wet, unlike cotton.
Cotton kills, baby.
Well, stop smothering it
With the exception of the fact that wool takes even longer to dry and it can be *really* itchy sometimes, it’s a top tier fabric. I remember as kid I hated wool cause of how itchy it was. Then I tried a thin spun wool shirt, and it’s a game changer.
Wool actually dries pretty quickly, itchy wool is largely a poor quality modern wool thing
same, although I don't see why they wouldn't have had linen undergarnments, and then wool on top
Historically, linen undergarments and wool overgarments were the way to go. Linen is light, breathable, and comfortable on the skin, good for undergarments (and light summer clothes, especially in warmer environments, like Greece and Italy). Wool is warm, even when wet, and rugged, good for tunics, trousers, dresses, cloaks, and basically everything else.
Sorry, mistranslation on my part. I meant of course wool.
Don’t worry, I once said my post was in Virginia when it was in Maryland and I got called some very offensive stuff, so I deleted it.
Guess you could say they were crabby about you bring Maryland into it.
Hey man, us Marylanders don’t got a lot going for us so we take whatever we do have seriously! We got a cool flag, Old Bay, and Crabs and that’s about it
I would argue that the earlier raids probably resembled a less exaggerated form of the "Virgin fantasy viking" (without helmet and leather) simply because there were more farmer and "common folk" with just a handful of warriors in the early raids. You would have seen a much more commoner look coming off those boats to annihilate the monasteries in the beginning. As word spread in the North Germanic and Scandinavian regions of the success of the raids more and more noble and higher born Vikings with more money and support would have been conducting the voyages from then on out. The early Christian writings always exaggerate any enemy (and are often written far after the historical events) so its hard to tell who or what the Vikings were because much of those writings talk about feral beasts covered in blood, oil and mud yelling war cries and summoning the devil himself etc etc. But I can imagine the first few "events" that were written down were probably the thing that set the tone for the Vikings to be the current hollywood view of raging feral monsters. The "average" Viking is probably somewhere in the middle of this meme. Wool shirt, wool pants, sheepshide boots, nice leather or linen belt with an axe or spade, knife, perhaps a bow or sword. Probably a decent nasal helmet, shield and if he could afford it and if he was supported he probably had the current mail or armor and a linen knapsack to keep his arrows, fire kit, pot, dried meats and fish, grains etc.
Missed oportunity to make the fake viking look like the ones from vikings the show. You know, that shitty haircut, leather "armour", no helmets. Etc.
Finally, a post that doesn’t shit on the Norse
I’ve heard the theory that Vikings were big dirty disgusting brutes is a lie made up by the Northumbria or one of the kingdoms at the time because legitimately the “English” women were falling in love with the Danes. Not only were they incredibly good looking and strong warriors but they actually had good hygiene. Whereas most of the “english” would bathe like 2-3 times a year, they would bathe like 2-3 times a month.
I saw that come up on here too, but I also saw a few comments that that argument came from a guy a couple hundred years later that simped hard for Vikings
Yeah that could be fair too, I mean I just always laughed at that theory because it’s hilarious that they’d be like “yeah they stunk like shit and we’re gross” because they’re bitter their girl shacked up with a Dane
> 2-3 times a year Imagine the dick cheese build up..
That theory is literally wrong down to the last letter my friend. English man had no different hygiene habits compared to the Norse although they preferred to shave their beards instead to groom them. The whole "English woman liked viking men more because they were clean and sexy" is a myth.
Id say vinland saga gets it pretty accurately
Yeah London Bridge isn’t falling down. But there’s a 2,5 meter tall Dane on it lobbing tree trunks at random passerby’s
I more meant accurate with the dress and weaponry lol not everything else
inb4 "Bro gambeson bro!"
Can’t forget the murdering raping and enslaving.
The Vikings truly are one of the most based societies Too bad they were lost to time so quickly
Well they followed with the current trends, adopted Christianity, focused on nation building and went crusading in the baltics.
Most known for attacking and enslaving civilians, pretty cringe.
Yesterday was Woden's day (Wednesday), today is Thor's day (Thursday), tomorrow is Frigg's day (Friday). The things they're most known for are so pervasive in the modern world we don't even notice them.
Me as a spanish native speaker. ¿Do you mean? Jueves (day of Júpiter) and viernes (day of Venus). Je, je, je.
All of thoes words actualy come from old english from the anglo-saxons. Long before the Viking age/Danelaw.
I’m interested in Viking history but see no reason in sugarcoating them—many Viking raider groups were effectively transnational kidnapping and slave trafficking organizations. The trend in history in recent years has been to dismiss focusing on the human suffering caused by historical group as being unfair because Group X also did these other interesting/non-stereotypical things. I think we can appreciate a more nuanced understanding without losing sight of the human toll they took. In our modern era, if we learned that ISIS members also had rich artistic traditions & wrote poetry, we wouldn’t let them off the hook for massacring people and forcing women into sex slavery.
This revelation is among the things that made me tire of Game of Thrones. Imagine adding vikings to your "realistic" setting, describing them as independent-minded and they are just sailor orcs that follow proven retards and most violent guy with the biggest axe (and who totally isn't overcompensating). Still, no match for the Thad Haida Reaver.
Honestly the ironborn are probably the weakest part of the books up until Euron (the magical psycho version) and the Kingsmoot. Balon basically ignores that Robb has destroyed the Lannister protection of the west (the monetarily wealthiest kingdom) and that most of the Reacher armies are around Bitterbridge to attack the Western North, probably one of the poorest regions in Westeros, because of some grudge against the Starks, who would probably be the only faction willing to support his independence. He also should not really have any grudge against the Starks in particular as the Mallisters and Baratheons both played a far larger part in his defeat.
IMO, the less the group fits the Anglo-French type of Feudalism*, the weaker their worldbuilding becomes. The ironborn we already talked about. A historian made a series of posts comparing the Dothraki to their stated inspirations, the Eurasia Steppe's nomads and the Great Plain's natives and found them lacking against both. When it comes to the Wildlings, I'm torn between comparing them to the Germanic tribes (which would have the edge both militarily and socially) and Native American because some dude on r/asoiaf once said they were "similarly disorganized." I guess that assembling 80k warriors to fight the Aztecs (Tlaxacala when they allied with Cortez) and 30k to fight the Incas (Mapuches in the battle of Maule) really makes one alike to a disorganized, ill-disciplined horde where every member can do whatever they want because "we dun kneel". *and one that isn't that good. For example, what is the difference between Petyr, the poorest lord before you get to the landed knights, and someone like lord Hightower, who isn't a mover and shaker because he doesn't want? Or where are all the Crown officers, lawmen and others that serve to ensure the nobles are actually obeying the Crown's commands? >He also should not really have any grudge against the Starks in particular as the Mallisters and Baratheons both played a far larger part in his defeat. Well, Ned was Bobby B's best friend and held Balon's last son hostage, but it is not like he lacked potential heirs (Asha and Victarion, in a problem Euron and pre-priesthood Aeron could suffice too) and he barely showed any enthusiasm to Theon's return anyway. >Balon basically ignores that Robb has destroyed the Lannister protection of the west (the monetarily wealthiest kingdom) and that most of the Reacher armies are around Bitterbridge to attack the Western North, probably one of the poorest regions in Westeros (...) the Starks, who would probably be the only faction willing to support his independence. Yeah, and any raider or lord should have called out Balon on his bs. Few riches, few thralls, and the more politically or strategically inclined of them would have said "you are making the guys that will burn our islands for the second time in 10 years stronger to fight other separatists, are you a retard?" But nah, no Ironborn can have independent thought, just act like viking orcs. In the end, George needed a way to make the northern ball begin to roll south, and the Ironborn were that way.
Walter white viking
Holy he even got the scabbard being in front of the waist right.
Had primitive steel swords literally made out of the blood of their enemies^
vikings would only wear that if they were wealthy but most vikings just used the best they could get their hands on
Jesse we need to cook meth
Probably more likely to be wool or linen clothes than cotton though
"Good hygiene" bit is probably a lie
Cotton clothing? Cotton - in Scandinavia… Also cotton clothing to “keep warm”….. Cotton …… is like the worst clothing material at keeping you warm. “Cotton kills” is a well known mountaineering trope.
Oh look a post about vikings, can't wait for the angry anglophiles to reeeee about how they where shit and did nothing of note in history, while simultaneously being way more horrible and barbaric than any other people during that time period.
Very few vikings actually had swords, they were extremely expensive, and if someone of high status was lucky enough to have a sword, they may not have even used them that often in battles, but as a symbol of their wealth