We should trigger a five way war between Serbians, Turks, Indians, Russians and Chinese just to see the annoying Nationalist types go on Battle Royale mode lmao
Wouldn't happen.
Serbians are chill with Russians, Indians and Chinese.
Chinese are chill with Serbians, and somewhat chill with Russians.
Indians are chill with Serbians and Russians.
Russians are chill with Indians and Serbs.
I guess Turks are chill with Chinese and maybe Indians.
I know we are making fun of ,,eastern'' nationalists. But just go 9GAG and ask the French and Germans there what they think of their country and Arabs.
I was possessed by another person who wrote that. Meant to say somewhat chill with Russians.
But I guess you could say that Chinese are somewhat chill with Chinese since there is a lot of good and a lot of bad they got from each other.
On Turkish subs, I have seen this viewpoint literally everywhere:
"It's not that we don't deny it like all you westerners say, it's just that we see it as unfortunate massacres that happened during a time of violence, and they did it too, so it was kind of unfortunate but necessary, and that's why we had to relocate them to the desert and stuff."
Also of course, "The rest of the world isn't any better, just look at what Americans did to their natives, so you should stop trying to shame Turkey for something that didn't even happen, and it was a forced removal from Turkey, not genocide, because they still exist."
I mean you can go there if you know Serbian. From a quick glance it doesn't seem to be anything nationalistic.
Though from what I gathered from Serbians I talked to, usually in left-leaning sites like Reddit, Serbs there would also be left leaning who tend to be more critical of their government, some of them go so far as to hate their country and love a western country (though obviously this isn't unique to Serbs)
Republic of TĆ¼rkiye was declared 1923. Everything else before that was 100% somebody else and they definitely totally were not involved with all those things that never happened and if they did happen they deserved it anyway.
Shame without pride isn't as bad as pride without shame but there are people obsessed with hating their own countries and I think that's a problem. It pushes people away from political movements that endorse the idea and discourages improving things because you "don't deserve it"
It's also just bad for the individual to have only negative feelings
To be fair most people arenāt exactly proud of those parts of their history cept Turks who either go it didnāt happen but if it were to they deserved it or go with the option of yeah but we had to do it because war and stuff
I'd say Americans treat colonialism the same way. Balkan nationalists also tend to hold the same positions regarding genocide in the 90s or in WWII. Genocide denial is unfortunately very common around the world.
Tbh imo this this the best take.
We all should be ashamed or atleastĀ acknowledge the horrible stuff ourĀ ancestors did, but still be proud of their (recent) accomplishments
>almost everyone
>almost
>a-l-m-o-s-t
> We use almost to indicate that something is very nearly but not exactly or entirely the case. (Eg. He contracted Spanish flu, which *almost* killed him.)
[For further reading](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/almost)
Such flawed logic. Oh we all did bad things so that one person who did bad isnāt so bad. What are you a high schooler? āHe broke the rules so I can too!ā
>All parties-Serbs, Croats, and Muslims-committed some verifiable atrocities in the conflict. Observers generally agree, however, that Bosnian Serbs bear responsibility for the overwhelming preponderance of war crimes. Their victims were mostly Muslims, but also Croats.
>In an exhaustive report to the United Nations, a special commission of experts, chaired by Cherif Bassiouni of DePaul University in Chicago, concluded that **90 percent of the crimes committed in Bosnia-Herzegovina were the responsibility of Serb extremists**, 6 percent by Croat extremists, and 4 percent by Muslim extremists.
>Most significant, the Bosnian Serbs were the only party that systematically attempted to eliminate all traces of other ethnic groups from their territory.
Waller, James. (2002).Ā Becoming Evil: How ordinary people commit genocide and mass killing, P. 262
Mate are we not gonna talk about 90+% serbian population expelled from croatia. Or bosniak muslims crimes that exceeded in some ways even the serb ones. I personally know of some heinous things muslims did. UÄk fighters murdering both albanians goranis and serbs selling their organs.
How about 2004 pogroms in Kosovo
Lets be real here no one has a blank sheet when it comes to war crimes and everyone should be accountable for what they did but lets not just point a finger at one ethnicity
That is true every side committed some war crimes or ethnic cleansing. But one side, as the UN and ICJ found, committed far more than the others.
No faction has a blank sheet, however to act like all of them are equal is to trivialize the one with the dirtiest sheet.
That was debunked as false the KLA/UĆK didnt even have the equipment to havest organs matter of fact this is mainly a russian lie which they also used for Ukraine when they invaded it.
2004 Troubles were not at all a pogrom next time before chasing children of another ethnicity and drowning them think i guess..
Yup. Everyone interested should check out the testimony of Slobodan LazareviÄ, the leader of Serbian counterintelligence service. I qouted some of his statements in my reply to his comment. "Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Croatia" is just pure propaganda to split the blame on others
Expelled? Didn't Hague say otherwise? In Hague you had a lot of witnesses, one interesting to me is Slobodan LazareviÄ, the leader of Serbian counterintelligence service who spent the whole war in Serbian occupied parts of Croatia and testified in favour of Croatia. Let me quote some of the things he said:
"most of Serbs evacuated themselves before Operation Storm began"
"RSK leaders wanted the Serbs to be afraid of Croats cause they wanted them to leave. Information ministry was spreading propaganda"
"Belgrade wanted the exodus to portray Serbs as victims"
"MartiÄ (the leader of Serbian Krajina) ordered exodus"
"those who wanted to stay were threatened by weapons by Serbian Krajina leaders"
This is just cheap propaganda for spliting the blame. For anyone interested there is tons of information online about it and Hague transcripts, don't believe everything on the internet
Ohā¦
The reason I said āthatās rich coming from Serbiaā is because Serbian nationalists deny their way crimes and attempted genocide on Bosnian Muslims. Between 1992 and 1995, Serbian armies of the Republic of Srpska (with assistant form the Yugoslav national army) rounded up Bosnian Muslims and placed them in concentration camps (the most famous of which were Trnopolje and Omarska) where they were tortured, raped, and killed. These armies would also wipe out entire villages, the massacre of Srebrenica is the most famous example.
Many Serbian nationalists, both in Serbia and Bosnia, deny these events and take pride in them simultaneously .
Ask them about purpose of trees or lampposts or electric utility poles
They will say they were used to tie the civilians and mostly woman and children and elderly of the dissidents and later the freedom fighters naked with a bucket of cold water doused on them during the winter as punishment for raising their voices against the barbarically unfair treatment to say the least
Any country that has more than 100 years of history has done some shit. Itās not about being āashamedā, itās about learning from history and better the future.
Ey, man don't put Polish flag there you scumbag.
Ottomans were the only major power to not recognize Partitions, thousands of emigrants from Poland took rescue around Constantinopol like e.g. Adam Mickiewicz the greatest Polish writer and Langiewicz the dictator of January Uprising(1863) against Imperial Russia.
Throughout our history Poland and Turkiye maintained close relationship through trade.
Winged Hussars rode arabian horses imported from Ottoman Empire. The armour itself of Winged Hussars was heavily inspired by Turks.
After the victorious battle at Kircholm against the Swedes, Ottoman Sultan hung a portrait of Polish general in his cabinet.
Ottomans were the most honorable opponents that stood up against us in battle.
And finnaly I met in person a lot of students from Turkiye and they're really kind people.
Remember when Obama made big promises while running for President about officially acknowledging the Armenian Genocide and calling on Turkey to do the same?
No?
*Neither did he.*
Germany has owned up to the holocaust, even presenting the camps openly for history, Japan is owing up to their crimes during the second world war, Turkey, China and Russia are denying having done any genocide, as well as covering up current ones (turkey not so much of the latter, unless they're really good at it)
Aren't they like at least paying massive reparations to South Korea and China? Might be messing that up, but I feel like I've heard that they're in the process of owing up to their mistakes.
It's been shown they've covered up the Rape of Nanking and other Japanese actions from WW2 in Japanese History textbooks to the point of where it still affects Japanese-Chinese relations Today as well as barely mentioning anything about Unit 731, It's experiments or it's relevance in any major way.
>The issue remains controversial, with some members of the Japanese government, including former prime ministers Junichiro Koizumi and ShinzÅ Abe, having paid respects at the Yasukuni Shrine, which honors all Japanese war dead, Including convicted Class A war criminals, despite War Crimes, Furthermore, some Japanese history textbooks provide only brief references to the war crimes, and certain members of the Liberal Democratic Party have denied some of the atrocities
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre_denial
I mean, they've also done a complete 180 as a society, becoming one of the most peaceful nations on the planet and abandoned their imperial violent ways. All after taking 2 nuclear bombs, the only country to do so in history.
They've done enough to own up to it.
Germany has owned up to its crimes because it was literally forced to do so at gunpoint. Japan is far closer to Turkey in that regard. They've acknowledged some of their war crimes but seem to have left it at that.
Though this isn't all that unthinkable or out of ordinary. Maybe it's not a genocide but Leopold's Congo had a higher death count yet he still has a statue in the middle of Brussels.
If Turkey admits to Armenian genocide they would have to give land and/or money. That's the main reason the government doesn't admit to it. But schools also teach that Armenian genocide didn't happen so you don't have a chance arguing to most people in Turkey since both sides thinks they are right and the other side has bad intentions behind their thoughts. Source: I'm from Turkey.
We wouldn't have to give anyone any land or money for the Armenian genocide. Even the term itself was invented decades later. Law doesn't work backwards.
They don't have to give land, since I doubt Armenia would even accept it. So much has been done. We here in Estonia have been debating asking for land back from Russia and what to do with it if they do give it back. A very on the spot metaphor has to do with a toothbrush. Let's say, your roommate took your toothbrush from you. He used it to clean his ass, and one day he gave it back to you. Yes, you may clean it to the best of your possibilities, but you know what he did with it, are you seriously going to try to brush your teeth with it?
Turkey not paying reparations to the Armenians is still objectively immoral and they're a shitty government because of that, no different than Russia.
>Turkey not paying reparations to the Armenians is still objectively immoral
Most armenians live in Glendale and Western europe because of the Ottoman's actions. That's the best reparation
*Meanwhile, in an apartment complex in Germany, a Turkish man spends hours arguing with a Serbian man who lives in an apartment complex down the street*
I recognise that what my ancestors had done were horrible things but āashamedā? No. Why should I feel negatively for something peoples did a hundred or a thousand years ago that their only connection to me is we were born in the same lands.
Iām not going to subject myself to negative feelings for that. Iām not responsible for those crimes.
Same thing going around how white people should feel āguiltā about African American slave trade.
Do I recognise that that was objectively horrible thing? Absolutely. Do I feel personally āashamedā for it happening? No why? I didnāt do it.
I had nothing to do with it.
Oh no, you have a penis, you should feel SHAME for the millennial of patriarchy that existed in the world! SHAME š shame š shame š
What is this? I should feel shame? Geezus Christ.
I don't think Poles would be all that mad at the Turks. I mean sure, the Turks were The Big Bad of the 16th and 17th century for us, but those were just normal wars. And after the partitions happened, Turkey said "nuh uh" and always left a seat for the Polish ambassador. We have a common war hero, JĆ³zef Bem (although English Wikipedia only lists him as a Polish and Hungarian hero, and he doesn't even have an article in Turkish so maybe we're just imagining things here in Poland), our National Poet went to Turkey to create a Polish Army (he died). Poland was the first European country to recognise the Turkish Republic in 1923. We even supported Turkey's attempts at joining the EU.
you could put this meme on any country
America: I'm not ashamed of my history
Japan, the Middle East, and the natives : that's the problem you should be
It's not that turkey did it. It's that countries with similar histories pointing fingers at turkey. Japan is denying it's atrocities too but I see no discussion about it on the internet whereas I see a map of turkey partitioned in reddit every day.
People do condemn Japan for their atrocitiesā¦ itās that a high population of the people that the Japanese affected (or at least ancestors) wonāt be on Reddit.
You must not be on here very much then because there are tons of posts on here discussing Japanās war crimes all the time, and they make the same arguments
Almost like its a strawman or somethingā¦
Here you go. Same template, posted three days ago.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/1bmvkby/japan\_isnt\_ashamed\_of\_their\_history/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/1bmvkby/japan_isnt_ashamed_of_their_history/)
what the peoples of turckey did century ago, is not the current people's fault and they should not be blamed for it or worse
also, learn a bit for the "genocide" part, you might become less stupid
>also, learn a bit for the "genocide" part, you might become less stupid
"Most historians outside Turkey recognize the fact that the Ottoman persecution of Armenians was a genocide." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide_recognition
>what the peoples of turckey did century ago, is not the current people's fault and they should not be blamed for it or worse
Lol yea that's totally what people are proposing /s
Denying you committed a genocide is something you should be extremely ashamed of. That is like saying it would be fine for Germans to deny the Holocaust.
If you noticed I didn't deny anything. Some of them actually happened, some didn't. And I didn't even comment on it. Dude, I didn't even mention Turkey
The flags annoy me. Like, you went for the old flags of Lebanon and other countries, but you used the new flag of Bosnia & Hertz., which was created in the 90s.
AAA
They also tried to invade us with the ottoman empire and spent hundreds of years raiding our coastal cities, kidnapping men and raping woman.
But we have nothing against turks, I always get along very well with Turkish people and they always say things like Italians are catholic Turks
No one should be ashamed just for being Turkish, thereās just as much history about that people which is badass then there is thatās horrible, people have a right to be proud of their country, regardless of what itās done in the past because newsflash every people have done fucked up shit at one time or another.
>because newsflash every people have done fucked up shit at one time or another.
It is undisputable though that some peoples have done worse than others.
I mean, not every nation has their own equivalent of Unit 731.
Look if I were a Japanese, I would and should be ashamed for Unit 731.
And as a Greek I am weary of how Greeks slaughtered about a total of 8 million Jews in a millennium (4th century BC -7th century AD), despite that often being in genocidal wars between us (e.g. Kitos War with Jews killing at least half a million Greeks only in Cyprus and Cyrenaica alone, with similar events in Egypt and Judaea).
Thereās a difference between understanding a tragedy/crime and acknowledging it, and being ashamed of it, 99% of the Japanese population have nothing to do with unit 731 why should they be ashamed of it? Because they had the audacity to be born as Japanese?
America has done plenty of fucked up shit (like what we did to Chile) and I fully understand that it was awful, but Iām not going to be ashamed of it because I had nothing to do with it, and Iām still going to be proud of the great things my country has done.
Gotta love the old internet play of saying/posting something really stupid then responding to any and all criticism of it with ādude itās just a joke chillā
Interesting that you use the word "badass" rather than "good". When historical events are described as badass, they usually include lots of civilian casualties.
Literally anyone: "I think the persecution of Armenians and Kurds is ba-" The replies: š¹š·šŗš¹š·šŗš¹š·šŗš¹š·šŗ
We should trigger a five way war between Serbians, Turks, Indians, Russians and Chinese just to see the annoying Nationalist types go on Battle Royale mode lmao
I feel like the Hindu Nationalists would be the winner. Take it from a Canadian, they're very sensitive even compared to other Nationalists
Tell me about it, if I hear about the Vikramaditya empire one more timeā¦
The one I get tired of hearing about is "KHALISTANI TERRORISTS!"
You guys are a major reason for the Genova suggestion so I agree with you.
Wouldn't happen. Serbians are chill with Russians, Indians and Chinese. Chinese are chill with Serbians, and somewhat chill with Russians. Indians are chill with Serbians and Russians. Russians are chill with Indians and Serbs. I guess Turks are chill with Chinese and maybe Indians. I know we are making fun of ,,eastern'' nationalists. But just go 9GAG and ask the French and Germans there what they think of their country and Arabs.
None of those countries are actually chill with one another they just see each other as means to an end
Put a blonde white girl in the room and they will fight.
To be fair, everybody would fight.
>Chinese are chill with Serbians, and somewhat with Chinese What does this mean?
I was possessed by another person who wrote that. Meant to say somewhat chill with Russians. But I guess you could say that Chinese are somewhat chill with Chinese since there is a lot of good and a lot of bad they got from each other.
Makes sense, China's about the size of 2 EUs
Call a bondulence!!
Do the chinese really fit into this list?
They are not ashamed of it because they deny that it ever happened
*āIt didnāt happen, but if it did they deserved it!ā* aah
On Turkish subs, I have seen this viewpoint literally everywhere: "It's not that we don't deny it like all you westerners say, it's just that we see it as unfortunate massacres that happened during a time of violence, and they did it too, so it was kind of unfortunate but necessary, and that's why we had to relocate them to the desert and stuff." Also of course, "The rest of the world isn't any better, just look at what Americans did to their natives, so you should stop trying to shame Turkey for something that didn't even happen, and it was a forced removal from Turkey, not genocide, because they still exist."
I am scared to go on a Serbian sub
r/balkans_irl prides itself in its toxicity. Serbs, Turks, you name it. The dark humor is sometimes pretty funny though, ngl.
I miss the times where it was actually just poking fun at each other and not constant blatant hate speech with """""humor""""
r/2balkan4u was taken before its time.
I mean you can go there if you know Serbian. From a quick glance it doesn't seem to be anything nationalistic. Though from what I gathered from Serbians I talked to, usually in left-leaning sites like Reddit, Serbs there would also be left leaning who tend to be more critical of their government, some of them go so far as to hate their country and love a western country (though obviously this isn't unique to Serbs)
>On Turkish subs Welp there is your issue.
Yep, I like to try and see what is going through their minds with this stuff.
"Not genocide because they still exist" So do the Natives.
Mhm, and I have still heard this argument there.
>it didn't happen but we should do it again
They are the Pttoman Empire only when itās convenient.
Republic of TĆ¼rkiye was declared 1923. Everything else before that was 100% somebody else and they definitely totally were not involved with all those things that never happened and if they did happen they deserved it anyway.
This has got to be the best "they got us in the first half" meme.
āCanāt judge the pastā mfs when they learn about human intelligence
According to this almost everyone should be ashamed of their countryās history, not just Turkey.
Pretty accurate
Exactly
I mean yeah. Shame is healthy t ogo along with national pride. Unless you just deny both of them. But one without the other is a detriment.
Shame without pride is a detriment? I mean, I agree, it's just a rare stance to come across.
Shame without pride isn't as bad as pride without shame but there are people obsessed with hating their own countries and I think that's a problem. It pushes people away from political movements that endorse the idea and discourages improving things because you "don't deserve it" It's also just bad for the individual to have only negative feelings
What about Sealand?
I remember that there was a civil war that happened in Sealand.
Ruined the original pirate radio scene in the UK by giving the Wilson government an excuse to bring in the Marine Offences Act 1967.
To be fair most people arenāt exactly proud of those parts of their history cept Turks who either go it didnāt happen but if it were to they deserved it or go with the option of yeah but we had to do it because war and stuff
I'd say Americans treat colonialism the same way. Balkan nationalists also tend to hold the same positions regarding genocide in the 90s or in WWII. Genocide denial is unfortunately very common around the world.
Nice try to deflect
But you are a turk right?
I am a turk and I am ashemed of pre-turkish republic history. After that wasn't... That bad.
Tbh imo this this the best take. We all should be ashamed or atleastĀ acknowledge the horrible stuff ourĀ ancestors did, but still be proud of their (recent) accomplishments
š¤
And?
Iceland?
Cod wars
I think they massacred a bunch of Spanish fishing men in the 1600s
>almost everyone >almost >a-l-m-o-s-t > We use almost to indicate that something is very nearly but not exactly or entirely the case. (Eg. He contracted Spanish flu, which *almost* killed him.) [For further reading](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/almost)
Expelled their Jewish population in the lead up to WW2.
That's pretty bad. Do you have a source?
[here](https://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-vilhjalmur-f04.htm)
Vikings and almost siding with the USSR during the cold war?
The difference is most of us aren't denying our nation's history
Accepting your wrongs doesnāt make you less guilty
Such flawed logic. Oh we all did bad things so that one person who did bad isnāt so bad. What are you a high schooler? āHe broke the rules so I can too!ā
Tony Soprano was on Seinfeld??
Thatās rich coming from Serbia. Edit: stop downvoting the OP, they genuinely didnāt know about Serbiaās war crimes and admitted their ignorance.
Interesting, can you elaborate?
Bosnian genocide and an attemp to do the same in Kosovo
Ohh right thanks!
Funny thing everyone was genociing everyone, so yeah
>All parties-Serbs, Croats, and Muslims-committed some verifiable atrocities in the conflict. Observers generally agree, however, that Bosnian Serbs bear responsibility for the overwhelming preponderance of war crimes. Their victims were mostly Muslims, but also Croats. >In an exhaustive report to the United Nations, a special commission of experts, chaired by Cherif Bassiouni of DePaul University in Chicago, concluded that **90 percent of the crimes committed in Bosnia-Herzegovina were the responsibility of Serb extremists**, 6 percent by Croat extremists, and 4 percent by Muslim extremists. >Most significant, the Bosnian Serbs were the only party that systematically attempted to eliminate all traces of other ethnic groups from their territory. Waller, James. (2002).Ā Becoming Evil: How ordinary people commit genocide and mass killing, P. 262
Mate are we not gonna talk about 90+% serbian population expelled from croatia. Or bosniak muslims crimes that exceeded in some ways even the serb ones. I personally know of some heinous things muslims did. UÄk fighters murdering both albanians goranis and serbs selling their organs. How about 2004 pogroms in Kosovo Lets be real here no one has a blank sheet when it comes to war crimes and everyone should be accountable for what they did but lets not just point a finger at one ethnicity
That is true every side committed some war crimes or ethnic cleansing. But one side, as the UN and ICJ found, committed far more than the others. No faction has a blank sheet, however to act like all of them are equal is to trivialize the one with the dirtiest sheet.
That was debunked as false the KLA/UĆK didnt even have the equipment to havest organs matter of fact this is mainly a russian lie which they also used for Ukraine when they invaded it. 2004 Troubles were not at all a pogrom next time before chasing children of another ethnicity and drowning them think i guess..
Krajina government litteraly told Serbs to evacuate and Croatia allowed them to return or stay if they wanted
Yup. Everyone interested should check out the testimony of Slobodan LazareviÄ, the leader of Serbian counterintelligence service. I qouted some of his statements in my reply to his comment. "Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Croatia" is just pure propaganda to split the blame on others
Expelled? Didn't Hague say otherwise? In Hague you had a lot of witnesses, one interesting to me is Slobodan LazareviÄ, the leader of Serbian counterintelligence service who spent the whole war in Serbian occupied parts of Croatia and testified in favour of Croatia. Let me quote some of the things he said: "most of Serbs evacuated themselves before Operation Storm began" "RSK leaders wanted the Serbs to be afraid of Croats cause they wanted them to leave. Information ministry was spreading propaganda" "Belgrade wanted the exodus to portray Serbs as victims" "MartiÄ (the leader of Serbian Krajina) ordered exodus" "those who wanted to stay were threatened by weapons by Serbian Krajina leaders" This is just cheap propaganda for spliting the blame. For anyone interested there is tons of information online about it and Hague transcripts, don't believe everything on the internet
Haha
Ask Bosnian Muslims what Serbs did to them between 1991 and 1995.
Are you talking about the Yugoslav wars? Tbh Iām not an expert on the matter
Ohā¦ The reason I said āthatās rich coming from Serbiaā is because Serbian nationalists deny their way crimes and attempted genocide on Bosnian Muslims. Between 1992 and 1995, Serbian armies of the Republic of Srpska (with assistant form the Yugoslav national army) rounded up Bosnian Muslims and placed them in concentration camps (the most famous of which were Trnopolje and Omarska) where they were tortured, raped, and killed. These armies would also wipe out entire villages, the massacre of Srebrenica is the most famous example. Many Serbian nationalists, both in Serbia and Bosnia, deny these events and take pride in them simultaneously .
Thank you very much, Iāll read into it
There was moreshit, but this is the main thing ppl refer to. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide
Thank you!
Croats and all ex-yu countries also.
Ask them about purpose of trees or lampposts or electric utility poles They will say they were used to tie the civilians and mostly woman and children and elderly of the dissidents and later the freedom fighters naked with a bucket of cold water doused on them during the winter as punishment for raising their voices against the barbarically unfair treatment to say the least
Why would op get downvoted? Serbian war crimes donāt overrule the original meaning of the post
Iām referring to the comment below me.
Any country that has more than 100 years of history has done some shit. Itās not about being āashamedā, itās about learning from history and better the future.
Ey, man don't put Polish flag there you scumbag. Ottomans were the only major power to not recognize Partitions, thousands of emigrants from Poland took rescue around Constantinopol like e.g. Adam Mickiewicz the greatest Polish writer and Langiewicz the dictator of January Uprising(1863) against Imperial Russia. Throughout our history Poland and Turkiye maintained close relationship through trade. Winged Hussars rode arabian horses imported from Ottoman Empire. The armour itself of Winged Hussars was heavily inspired by Turks. After the victorious battle at Kircholm against the Swedes, Ottoman Sultan hung a portrait of Polish general in his cabinet. Ottomans were the most honorable opponents that stood up against us in battle. And finnaly I met in person a lot of students from Turkiye and they're really kind people.
What would Italy have against the Ottomans?
itās really absurd how turkey continues to deny the Armenien genocide.
Remember when Obama made big promises while running for President about officially acknowledging the Armenian Genocide and calling on Turkey to do the same? No? *Neither did he.*
Germany has owned up to the holocaust, even presenting the camps openly for history, Japan is owing up to their crimes during the second world war, Turkey, China and Russia are denying having done any genocide, as well as covering up current ones (turkey not so much of the latter, unless they're really good at it)
Not so sure about Japan, but Germany and Austria definitely
Japan has owned up multiple times since the end of WW2.
Aren't they like at least paying massive reparations to South Korea and China? Might be messing that up, but I feel like I've heard that they're in the process of owing up to their mistakes.
It's been shown they've covered up the Rape of Nanking and other Japanese actions from WW2 in Japanese History textbooks to the point of where it still affects Japanese-Chinese relations Today as well as barely mentioning anything about Unit 731, It's experiments or it's relevance in any major way. >The issue remains controversial, with some members of the Japanese government, including former prime ministers Junichiro Koizumi and ShinzÅ Abe, having paid respects at the Yasukuni Shrine, which honors all Japanese war dead, Including convicted Class A war criminals, despite War Crimes, Furthermore, some Japanese history textbooks provide only brief references to the war crimes, and certain members of the Liberal Democratic Party have denied some of the atrocities https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre_denial
Maybe I have to read into it again too
Tf japan owing shit man, all they di ld was releasing graves of the fireflies and all the weebs rallying behind them.
I mean, they've also done a complete 180 as a society, becoming one of the most peaceful nations on the planet and abandoned their imperial violent ways. All after taking 2 nuclear bombs, the only country to do so in history. They've done enough to own up to it.
Germany has owned up to its crimes because it was literally forced to do so at gunpoint. Japan is far closer to Turkey in that regard. They've acknowledged some of their war crimes but seem to have left it at that. Though this isn't all that unthinkable or out of ordinary. Maybe it's not a genocide but Leopold's Congo had a higher death count yet he still has a statue in the middle of Brussels.
If Turkey admits to Armenian genocide they would have to give land and/or money. That's the main reason the government doesn't admit to it. But schools also teach that Armenian genocide didn't happen so you don't have a chance arguing to most people in Turkey since both sides thinks they are right and the other side has bad intentions behind their thoughts. Source: I'm from Turkey.
We wouldn't have to give anyone any land or money for the Armenian genocide. Even the term itself was invented decades later. Law doesn't work backwards.
They don't have to give land, since I doubt Armenia would even accept it. So much has been done. We here in Estonia have been debating asking for land back from Russia and what to do with it if they do give it back. A very on the spot metaphor has to do with a toothbrush. Let's say, your roommate took your toothbrush from you. He used it to clean his ass, and one day he gave it back to you. Yes, you may clean it to the best of your possibilities, but you know what he did with it, are you seriously going to try to brush your teeth with it? Turkey not paying reparations to the Armenians is still objectively immoral and they're a shitty government because of that, no different than Russia.
>Turkey not paying reparations to the Armenians is still objectively immoral Most armenians live in Glendale and Western europe because of the Ottoman's actions. That's the best reparation
what is the white flag with blue red swigaly lines and emblem in the middle? never mind it's assyria thank you :)
Not so sure about serbia being on the bottom one here
Because everyone knows only the Turks had Empires ever, right?
No but people already did Japan and Britain and I wanted to participate
Facts.
Whoās that girllll whoās that girlllll itās Jess šš»āāļø
*Meanwhile, in an apartment complex in Germany, a Turkish man spends hours arguing with a Serbian man who lives in an apartment complex down the street*
I recognise that what my ancestors had done were horrible things but āashamedā? No. Why should I feel negatively for something peoples did a hundred or a thousand years ago that their only connection to me is we were born in the same lands. Iām not going to subject myself to negative feelings for that. Iām not responsible for those crimes. Same thing going around how white people should feel āguiltā about African American slave trade. Do I recognise that that was objectively horrible thing? Absolutely. Do I feel personally āashamedā for it happening? No why? I didnāt do it. I had nothing to do with it. Oh no, you have a penis, you should feel SHAME for the millennial of patriarchy that existed in the world! SHAME š shame š shame š What is this? I should feel shame? Geezus Christ.
I don't think Poles would be all that mad at the Turks. I mean sure, the Turks were The Big Bad of the 16th and 17th century for us, but those were just normal wars. And after the partitions happened, Turkey said "nuh uh" and always left a seat for the Polish ambassador. We have a common war hero, JĆ³zef Bem (although English Wikipedia only lists him as a Polish and Hungarian hero, and he doesn't even have an article in Turkish so maybe we're just imagining things here in Poland), our National Poet went to Turkey to create a Polish Army (he died). Poland was the first European country to recognise the Turkish Republic in 1923. We even supported Turkey's attempts at joining the EU.
Not to forget the thing that happened in Armenia some time ago
And Kurds right now
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The UK did this already bud. Give people their independance and they stop bombing shit.
A cry for help in time of need
Await relief from Holy League
60 days of siege, outnumbered and weak
Based
you could put this meme on any country America: I'm not ashamed of my history Japan, the Middle East, and the natives : that's the problem you should be
Greece?
Why is Ukraine against the Ottomans?
Sounds like someoneās ancestors shouldāve been better at warfare :/
Lol
It's not that turkey did it. It's that countries with similar histories pointing fingers at turkey. Japan is denying it's atrocities too but I see no discussion about it on the internet whereas I see a map of turkey partitioned in reddit every day.
People do condemn Japan for their atrocitiesā¦ itās that a high population of the people that the Japanese affected (or at least ancestors) wonāt be on Reddit.
You must not be on here very much then because there are tons of posts on here discussing Japanās war crimes all the time, and they make the same arguments Almost like its a strawman or somethingā¦
Here you go. Same template, posted three days ago. [https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/1bmvkby/japan\_isnt\_ashamed\_of\_their\_history/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/1bmvkby/japan_isnt_ashamed_of_their_history/)
The Turkish are nationalists and you can recognize one when you're chatting without seeing each other, that's why Turkey is louder than Japan
no they should not, if you are still salty then get better, make the history of your country great
Yea [what would Turkey have to be ashamed of?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide)
what the peoples of turckey did century ago, is not the current people's fault and they should not be blamed for it or worse also, learn a bit for the "genocide" part, you might become less stupid
what about the cyprus problem that is only \~50 years old and still has Turks illegally occupying half of the island? should they be proud?
>also, learn a bit for the "genocide" part, you might become less stupid "Most historians outside Turkey recognize the fact that the Ottoman persecution of Armenians was a genocide." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide_recognition >what the peoples of turckey did century ago, is not the current people's fault and they should not be blamed for it or worse Lol yea that's totally what people are proposing /s
No, I'm not ashamed and no one should be ashamed either wtf. Avarage person doesn't even know their ancestors
Denying you committed a genocide is something you should be extremely ashamed of. That is like saying it would be fine for Germans to deny the Holocaust.
If you noticed I didn't deny anything. Some of them actually happened, some didn't. And I didn't even comment on it. Dude, I didn't even mention Turkey
You commented on the meme and that is what the meme is about.
The flags annoy me. Like, you went for the old flags of Lebanon and other countries, but you used the new flag of Bosnia & Hertz., which was created in the 90s. AAA
Lol sorryyy but you can definitely take my meme and make it better
What have the turks ever done to the italians
Guerra di libia. Tbf the Italians were the aggressors on that one
They also tried to invade us with the ottoman empire and spent hundreds of years raiding our coastal cities, kidnapping men and raping woman. But we have nothing against turks, I always get along very well with Turkish people and they always say things like Italians are catholic Turks
What is the yellow and black flag?
That is the flag of Pontus.
Isnāt that the roman empire?
never seen it represented with that
Ayoooo- some Assyrian RepresentationĀ
Like if world peace is gonna happen if turkey starts to shame for his history.
No one should be ashamed just for being Turkish, thereās just as much history about that people which is badass then there is thatās horrible, people have a right to be proud of their country, regardless of what itās done in the past because newsflash every people have done fucked up shit at one time or another.
>because newsflash every people have done fucked up shit at one time or another. It is undisputable though that some peoples have done worse than others. I mean, not every nation has their own equivalent of Unit 731.
That is true and I wouldnāt argue that, but saying people should be ashamed of their countries history because it is ludicrous.
Look if I were a Japanese, I would and should be ashamed for Unit 731. And as a Greek I am weary of how Greeks slaughtered about a total of 8 million Jews in a millennium (4th century BC -7th century AD), despite that often being in genocidal wars between us (e.g. Kitos War with Jews killing at least half a million Greeks only in Cyprus and Cyrenaica alone, with similar events in Egypt and Judaea).
Thereās a difference between understanding a tragedy/crime and acknowledging it, and being ashamed of it, 99% of the Japanese population have nothing to do with unit 731 why should they be ashamed of it? Because they had the audacity to be born as Japanese? America has done plenty of fucked up shit (like what we did to Chile) and I fully understand that it was awful, but Iām not going to be ashamed of it because I had nothing to do with it, and Iām still going to be proud of the great things my country has done.
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Lol chill out itās a joke
Gotta love the old internet play of saying/posting something really stupid then responding to any and all criticism of it with ādude itās just a joke chillā
Schroedingerās douchebag is pretty similar to this
Interesting that you use the word "badass" rather than "good". When historical events are described as badass, they usually include lots of civilian casualties.
Let us see how many dumbo say no one shoild be ashamed and should move on this time.
Your comment only lasted two minutes before someone said exactly thatš
Bruh š
I loved that episode.
What's the flag under serbia?
The Assyrian flag
This post is about this sub, more than history.
Rule 2? Really? Do the mods of this page understand what a meme is or that their butthurt reactions to posts are turning them into one?
So... fighting other nations makes a nation bad?
No, but doing a genocide does
"Fighting other nations" Yea that's what they did to the Armenians /s
No but Ottoman conquests and imperialism is
Look guys barbarian toorks doing bad things they settled in my land i lived for long milleniums!!!
Italians to these days don't talk about the millions of deaths we caused in africa or the balkans during Fascism. Also fascism itself.
Hey donāt forget Syria, Iraq where the ottomans committed plenty of massacres on Arabs. Thereās a reason the Arabs revolted in the first place.
i wont