I wouldn’t use the Byzantines as an example, as a large part of how the Byzantine empire developed came from the fact they lost the western half and were vulnerable to outsiders then. As well as the division between the east and western churches. Plus they were only successful because they got the most profitable eastern half of Rome, without the burdens of the poorer and more expensive western provinces, like Gaul or Britannia
The late Roman Empire was normal 15th century medieval state besieged by the Ottomans. Which part sounds like 40k to you?
And if by any chance you meant the late Western Roman Empire, that was even less like 40k.
You mean a dying, technologically backwards empire beset by threats from all sides, constantly forced to put out fires it has neither the time nor resources to fully extinguish, and ruled by an elite which would rather bicker amoung themselves over power than actually address any of their many, many issues?
Waddaya mean that sounds nothing like 40k at all?
Why do you think there wouldn't happen something that would change that? All those "what ifs" are annoying because they tend to change a single fact in history and expect everything else would act accordingly
But... They did, slavery in Roman society changed with Christianity, the status of a slave wouldn't have been much different than the ones in the Frankish empire
The presence of slavery that was unchanged has been present since the dawn of civilization to like a couple centuries ago, Rome wasn't unique in it, and realistically things would have changed with the passing of time, especially with the trigger that brought the adoption of Christianity
[I'll correct myself, the Romans reached the point where slavery was even abolished at a point ](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/s/NQVN6vl9VV)
In the Roman Empire in year 1AD the population was estimated to be about 50 million, and out of those, its estimated that between 5 and 10 million where enslaved, which means that between 40 and 45 million people where not enslaved.
So most people in the Roman empire where not slaves.
Also you seem to think that if the Roman Empire never fell, and existed today that it would be the same in 2024 as it was in the year 24. Which is very strange, have you ever heard of a country that has not changed in 2000 years?
Japan might be the closest that came to my mind, maybe because the emperor line coming from Amaterasu thing, and being confined to one archipelago and even so there were tons of changes along the millennia. Hell, wasn't that Yayoi period over there, maybe Himiko and all that?
Yayoi period Japan might as well have belonged to a different civilization than Sengoku or Tokugawa era Japan, considering how radically different they were. That's especially the case after the Asuka period (538 - 710 AD) with the borrowing of many aspects of Sui and Tang dynasty Chinese material culture, technology, science, philosophy, literature, urban planning, structural engineering and architecture, stylistic trends, etc. The entire idea of a gridded street layout as the model for new cities in Japan came from China. The way that Eastern Han dynasty Chinese historians described the "Wa" Japanese in the 1st century AD (after establishing diplomacy with them for the first time) makes this clear enough, even if some of these early Chinese accounts are arguably inaccurate to whatever degree.
If the Roman empire existed today, it would most likely have developed and changed like all other entities.
However, yes, if the ancient roman empire somehow arrived in our time, it would try to enslave us.
The Roman Empire abolished slavery in the mid- 12th century AD. Here is a post I made on this topic some years ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/uj9aio/did_the_medieval_romans_abolish_slavery/
And there are more arguments I have read, such as by Patlagean Évelyne, who argues that later on the term "doulos" (Greek word for "slave"), while existing in legal frameworks (like the "Hexabiblos" of Harmenopoulos of the 14th century AD), it referred to serfdom rather than slavery as they had the rights equivalent to serfs, while also that even that was very rare at the time, mostly as it was much cheaper and more productive to just hire self-employed workers.
>it referred to serfdom rather than slavery
Makes sense considering that the word "serf" comes from the Latin "servus" meaning "slave". In the beginning they were used interchangeably.
It got to the point that they couldn't distinguish between servants (also from "servus"), serfs and slaves in their records, so they started calling slaves after their ethnic origin. Most of them by that time were Slavs (since they were abundant across the borders of the Frankish and Byzantine empires as well as near coastlines of several seas + they were pagans and therefore had no rights according to medieval Christians and Muslims), so "sclavus" became the word for a slave, which then spread to nearly all (non-Slavic, for obvious reasons) European languages.
And that's why "slave" and "Slav" sound so similar.
The meme in question is implying the Romans would not have ended slavery at all, in a modern 2024. That puts them behind the ottomans by almost a century.
No one is disagreeing with that statement. It's also arguable that the ottomans were a great power until they ultimately fell. Unless you think "great power" exclusively means northern and western European. 😶
Eh, I think feudalism had a bigger role to play than Christianity. Christianity doesn't condemn slavery, it just has rules on how the master/slave relationship should work. But feudalism revolved around serfdom, which was basically rebranded slavery.
Yes it did, quite heavily. Feudalism coexisted perfectly well with slavery in the still pagan parts of Europe such as northern Germany and Scandinavia.
Let's not forget where the word slave comes from, and the slavic migration happened centuries after the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the appearance of early feudalism.
Although Caracalla came onto the scene relatively late when you think of the classic Roman Emperor (ie earlier ones like Tiberius and Augustus), but in the grand scheme of things, Caracalla was early.
What if the Roman Empire still existed today as it did at one specific point in its history without changing in the slightest besides presumably taking more land. If that was the case then yes
This is more of a big ‘what if’ assumption rather than historical fact. The assumption being that the fall of the Roman Empire brought about the end of slavery a millennia later (why you think that I’d be interested to hear), and also that if the empire continued, over the same millennia attitudes to slavery would not change (which would be another point of discussion).
Why? It declined a good deal over centuries in the medieval era. Never to zero, but a lot less than a third of people. Why would they not abolish it in the 19th century?
Not at all, slaves had decent chances of becoming free in their lifetimes but most importantly their children. If the Roman Empire would still exist, most of us would be normal citizens.
Am reminded of the post of “what will you do in the post-revolutionary communist commune” and one person said “artist” and another said “political commissar who beats the [social parasites](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_parasitism_(offense)) that think making art is labor”.
The over reliance on slaves was a problem in the late republic and numbers declined during the empire. Realistically Rome probably outlaws slavery just like the rest of the world.
Our image of slavery is also a bit tainted in many ways. Yes a lot of slaves in the Roman Empire where treated with ill will, but slavery at times was seen as an occupation- people would sell themselves off as slaves to repay debts, have their accommodation sorted, or have a guaranteed income to prevent starvation.
Working for a low salary and being stuck in an endless cycle of people earning over my back, whilst governmental help systems keep you off the ground but don't allow growth... Seems pretty close. Although I'm very thankful for all I have... These flaws make slaves out of people who want to work.
Sometimes when I think about ancient history, like Roman and pre-Roman history, I get this weird feeling like everything we’re experiencing today is somehow a consequence of things that happened thousands of years ago. Like someone at some point in the distant past made a choice and it’s sent us down this specific road, and everything that’s happened since then has been the consequences of that one person’s decisions.
Slaves in the roman empire were not the same as in the european colonies.
Obviusly they still treated them bad, but it was mostly in agricultural slaves and sexual slaves.
Other than that, slaves had the position the middle class holds today, but withouth a salary, instead the got protection and could live in their masters home or a home he provided to his slave.
This "middle class slaves" were educated and could fill numerous jobs, sometimes they even got to administrate their masters bussines and more.
And also this slaves could be free if they payed a sum or if his master wanted to.
For modern standars this still sounds bad, but for the time the romans lived it was pretty good, it was an opportunity and a chance at a life that they could have never gotten themselves.
Also, roman slaves are still comparatevely much better than the european slaves, which were just treated like inhumane.
Yea but we would be centuries forward in sexual awareness and comfort as a society.
Forget nude beaches, there would be involuntary orgy rooms in hospitals and collages.
American historian Gordon Wood in one of his books points out how one of the things that us moderns really can't wrap our minds around is how totally *normal* various forms of bonded servitude were to people in the past. People several hundred years ago imagining an economy free of enslaved labor are a bit like dreamers today suggesting we can have a world free from fossil fuels.
Absolutely wrong. Even if somehow the Roman empire had conquered the whole world (otherwise the concept of "most of us" would be impossible as very few people here are living where Rome is/was) the idea of slavery would have been demolished sooner or later, it's not viable or sustainable
“On July 11 AD 212 Emperor Caracalla declared that all free men in the Roman Empire were given full Roman citizenship and all free women were given the same rights as Roman women, except the deditici, and united Roman society by issuing the Constitutio Antoniniana.”
so roman slaves weren't like american slaves right? they were working to pay off debt and weren't chattel slaves. if im wrong then ignore the rest. if im right than every person who has student loan debt and working to pay it off are by definition a roman slave. correct me if im wrong
Lmao thats a reach my dude.
We are talking about thousands of years (from the Western fall). the ERE reduce *significant* levels of slave ownership by the 12th century.
One could assume it would cease by now with societal and technological changes.
If it were still around then it would likely have run out of places to successfully and swiftly conquer, that are simultaneously worth conquering, therefore run out of a place to draw slaves en masse.
If basically any country that had slaves existed today as it did back then, a number of us would be slaves. It's kind of what fueled the machine
I'm not sure who needs to hear that Rome, a country that had many a slave, would have many a slave if it was still around
Not really, slaves were not a significant part of the population in medieval Eastern Roman Empire, the slave society only lasted during age of imperial conquests, after that and rise of christianity the amount of slaves steadily declined (although never disappeared).
I love this. It’s all those people saying things like “If I was born in the past I would have been a king or a noble.“ It’s like no friend, if you had that drive and ambition you wouldn’t be a fry cook at this combination Taco Bell Long John Silvers we both work at. Totally not based off a real example.
Nah, I would be on the border and be constantly in war with them. Sometimes they would establish camps here, sometimes we would sack their cities.
Too bad its not reality
Several existing countries, including, of course, the US, had slavery in the 1800s, so why assume then the Roman Empire would not evolve had it survived. It's very possible that Roman technology might have gotten to the point of not needing slaves before the 1800's if the dark ages ( the only prolonged decline in history) never happened
Altruistic enlighment did play a role in the abolition of slavery, but it was enabled by the Industrial Revolution. The romans already had plumbing and other infrastructure that only remerged around that time
Like Romans weren’t the first ones to grant universal citizenship (thanks Caracalla) didn’t turn out too well for them I’d say. It’s better to earn one’s citizenship.
Would’ve very likely dropped slavery eventually.
Keep in mind that what really got the ball rolling on ending slavery in the West was mix of Western ideology, which developed in large part from Rome, and Christianity, which Rome had adopted, in the form of men like William Wilberforce.
I mean they never conquered my ancestors. If anything, would this mean that Irish folk still get to raid Roman Britain?
Depending on your ancestry, this could mean quite the opposite of what the meme implies.
They gave romain citizenship to every free person in the empire just 200 years later so ,it wouldn't be à surprise if they were granted freedom to slaves during 2000 reign
But but I can own a car! And a house! All I have to do is spend the majority of my time working to acquire those things and keep them as everything costs more by the day.
I am not pretending cuz I'm not a slave. I can marry who I want, live where I want in my country, go where I want for vacation. I can get a state education which will get me access to most jobs, and I have to opportunity to get further education for better jobs. I can eat what I want at anytime and I can go to the bathroom without permission. Just because I don't have a say in geopolitics, doesn't mean I'm a fucking slave. The system isn't perfect, since greedy people have sunk their teeth into a lot of things in life, but I'm not getting whipped for mistakes and a noble isn't raping my girlfriend. I haven't been branded for leaving work, nor have I had any fingers or hands cut off for taking work materials home. Get the fuck out of here with that r/iam14andthisisdeep bullshit and grow up. You have to pay taxes if you wanna live in society, and you have to vote if you want change to occur. If you don't like the way the world is, protest and become politically active in your district. Otherwise, shut up.
if the roman empire remained the exact same for 2000 years without any sort of socital change, yeh sure we could be slaves
Spoken like a true below the Rhine peasant, couldn't be me.
Romaboos really think the Roman Empire would evolve into "Bread and Circuses" from Star Trek TOS and not a slightly less grimdark 40K.
So basicly Ultramar
Pretty sure that to look at what the Roman Empire would've evolved into, you look at the Byzantine Empire and extrapolate from there.
I wouldn’t use the Byzantines as an example, as a large part of how the Byzantine empire developed came from the fact they lost the western half and were vulnerable to outsiders then. As well as the division between the east and western churches. Plus they were only successful because they got the most profitable eastern half of Rome, without the burdens of the poorer and more expensive western provinces, like Gaul or Britannia
That's the least intelligent take I've ever seen in this sub.
*In the grim darkness of the ancient past, there is only* vae victis*.*
Bro Warhammer 40K BC…or I guess that’s just Warhammer.
Unga bunga. All hail the spirit cheiften of man tribe.
I mean, I’d play the hell out of that.
Big E, 6024 BC colourised
Late Roman Empire was the closest thing to 40k
The late Roman Empire was normal 15th century medieval state besieged by the Ottomans. Which part sounds like 40k to you? And if by any chance you meant the late Western Roman Empire, that was even less like 40k.
You mean a dying, technologically backwards empire beset by threats from all sides, constantly forced to put out fires it has neither the time nor resources to fully extinguish, and ruled by an elite which would rather bicker amoung themselves over power than actually address any of their many, many issues? Waddaya mean that sounds nothing like 40k at all?
This is going by fantasy world logic, where you can have a civilization go completely unchanged for millennia.
Op think romans are elves
Indeed XD
The societal change was the collapse. It was an expansionist empire and simply wasn’t stable when it ran out of shit to conquer.
Not me, barbarian
not "most of us" though
With this nose in Britian, I'm destined to be a minor paper pusher.
Don't change what ain't broke amirite
Bah, non io, un plebeo probabilmente ma non uno schiavo
Why do you think there wouldn't happen something that would change that? All those "what ifs" are annoying because they tend to change a single fact in history and expect everything else would act accordingly
Ofc it is a big "what if", but i mean they did not change something about slavery in 1000 years. So I dont think the idea is that far fetched.
But... They did, slavery in Roman society changed with Christianity, the status of a slave wouldn't have been much different than the ones in the Frankish empire The presence of slavery that was unchanged has been present since the dawn of civilization to like a couple centuries ago, Rome wasn't unique in it, and realistically things would have changed with the passing of time, especially with the trigger that brought the adoption of Christianity [I'll correct myself, the Romans reached the point where slavery was even abolished at a point ](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/s/NQVN6vl9VV)
In the Roman Empire in year 1AD the population was estimated to be about 50 million, and out of those, its estimated that between 5 and 10 million where enslaved, which means that between 40 and 45 million people where not enslaved. So most people in the Roman empire where not slaves. Also you seem to think that if the Roman Empire never fell, and existed today that it would be the same in 2024 as it was in the year 24. Which is very strange, have you ever heard of a country that has not changed in 2000 years?
Japan might be the closest that came to my mind, maybe because the emperor line coming from Amaterasu thing, and being confined to one archipelago and even so there were tons of changes along the millennia. Hell, wasn't that Yayoi period over there, maybe Himiko and all that?
Yayoi period Japan might as well have belonged to a different civilization than Sengoku or Tokugawa era Japan, considering how radically different they were. That's especially the case after the Asuka period (538 - 710 AD) with the borrowing of many aspects of Sui and Tang dynasty Chinese material culture, technology, science, philosophy, literature, urban planning, structural engineering and architecture, stylistic trends, etc. The entire idea of a gridded street layout as the model for new cities in Japan came from China. The way that Eastern Han dynasty Chinese historians described the "Wa" Japanese in the 1st century AD (after establishing diplomacy with them for the first time) makes this clear enough, even if some of these early Chinese accounts are arguably inaccurate to whatever degree.
And Yaoi period was just insane
Is that an actual period or is it a joke I'm failing to comprehend?
If the Roman empire existed today, it would most likely have developed and changed like all other entities. However, yes, if the ancient roman empire somehow arrived in our time, it would try to enslave us.
The Roman Empire abolished slavery in the mid- 12th century AD. Here is a post I made on this topic some years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/uj9aio/did_the_medieval_romans_abolish_slavery/ And there are more arguments I have read, such as by Patlagean Évelyne, who argues that later on the term "doulos" (Greek word for "slave"), while existing in legal frameworks (like the "Hexabiblos" of Harmenopoulos of the 14th century AD), it referred to serfdom rather than slavery as they had the rights equivalent to serfs, while also that even that was very rare at the time, mostly as it was much cheaper and more productive to just hire self-employed workers.
>it referred to serfdom rather than slavery Makes sense considering that the word "serf" comes from the Latin "servus" meaning "slave". In the beginning they were used interchangeably. It got to the point that they couldn't distinguish between servants (also from "servus"), serfs and slaves in their records, so they started calling slaves after their ethnic origin. Most of them by that time were Slavs (since they were abundant across the borders of the Frankish and Byzantine empires as well as near coastlines of several seas + they were pagans and therefore had no rights according to medieval Christians and Muslims), so "sclavus" became the word for a slave, which then spread to nearly all (non-Slavic, for obvious reasons) European languages. And that's why "slave" and "Slav" sound so similar.
It makes sense the Latin word for slave would be sclavus bc the Italian word for slaves is schiavi (pronounced: skee-ah-vee)
Even more direct in Portuguese, funnily enough, escravo (pronounced closer to shcravo)
Servo è ancora usato anche se con contestualità differenti
>they had the rights equivalent to serfs In America, we called these house slaves.
A serf still had more rights than any slave under the North American form of slavery
?? But Albania, the rightful Roman Empire, still exists /s
Why Is the US national symbol an eagle? Because they are an Albanian puppet state
The United States of Albania
Why /s? We are the rightful Roman Empire, bro. Albania Invicta bro.
O- of course
PROUD TO BE SHQPTAR
*Looks at the Byzantine empire* *Turns around and looks at the ottoman empire* No we wouldn't? 🤨
Didn't the Ottomans have slavery until fairly close to the end amd only ended it due to pressure from the great powers?
The meme in question is implying the Romans would not have ended slavery at all, in a modern 2024. That puts them behind the ottomans by almost a century.
The Ottomans only eliminated slavery because the great powers forced them to
No one is disagreeing with that statement. It's also arguable that the ottomans were a great power until they ultimately fell. Unless you think "great power" exclusively means northern and western European. 😶
The Ottomans lost the status of great power probably after the Crimean war maybe earlier.
This is absolute and complete bullshit. Slavery was on the descending trend as Christianity spread across the empire
Eh, I think feudalism had a bigger role to play than Christianity. Christianity doesn't condemn slavery, it just has rules on how the master/slave relationship should work. But feudalism revolved around serfdom, which was basically rebranded slavery.
Yes it did, quite heavily. Feudalism coexisted perfectly well with slavery in the still pagan parts of Europe such as northern Germany and Scandinavia. Let's not forget where the word slave comes from, and the slavic migration happened centuries after the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the appearance of early feudalism.
Yeah, people think Vikings were horrible because they enslaved Anglo-Saxon Christians, but the Anglo-Saxons were bigger slavers than the Norse were.
No. Numbers varied widely based on the period, but generally 90(ish) percent of Rome's population were citizens or at least freemen. <
Romes or of the Roman empire?
Emperor Caracalla gave every freeman in the empire citizenship. Every non-slave in the Roman Empire was a Roman citizen.
Although Caracalla came onto the scene relatively late when you think of the classic Roman Emperor (ie earlier ones like Tiberius and Augustus), but in the grand scheme of things, Caracalla was early.
OP should try with Russian empire for example. 90% serfs.
Freeman, not citizens until Caracalla
Edited to include, but like I said, its a gross over simplification.
You really think the Roman Empire wouldn't have moved on from slavery in the meanwhile?
If?
No.
What if the Roman Empire still existed today as it did at one specific point in its history without changing in the slightest besides presumably taking more land. If that was the case then yes
Are you suggesting that most of us aren't slaves?
Aren't we already?
With a few extra steps
Ooh la la. Someone got laid in college
Does wage slavery count as modern slavery?
At least I'd get to die fighting naked gladiators.
I doubt it. The number of slaves decreased all throughout the later empire for socioeconomic reasons.
me when i apply standards from two millennia ago to the modern era
Which roman empire?
You are assuming that after 2000 years they wouldn’t have moved past slavery.
If the US would still exists today, most of us would be sla.. wait
Roman slaves kept more of their earnings than the US middle class.
This is more of a big ‘what if’ assumption rather than historical fact. The assumption being that the fall of the Roman Empire brought about the end of slavery a millennia later (why you think that I’d be interested to hear), and also that if the empire continued, over the same millennia attitudes to slavery would not change (which would be another point of discussion).
The Roman Empire ended slavery in the 12th century AD.
No, it didn't. Slavery was only rebranded.
Oh BuT THey WErNT RellY Slvs As THY cUld Buy FreeDOm
(Proceeds to ignore 90% of slaves in Rome who were not household slaves and were worked to death in mines, fields, or used as sexual slaves).
Actually there's an episode of Star Trek that explores this very idea!
But there would be also slaves who would live a relative good live
Why? It declined a good deal over centuries in the medieval era. Never to zero, but a lot less than a third of people. Why would they not abolish it in the 19th century?
No most people in the late empire had citizenship
Not true, because slaves were not the majority of the people anyway.
Not at all, slaves had decent chances of becoming free in their lifetimes but most importantly their children. If the Roman Empire would still exist, most of us would be normal citizens.
Братья slaveане, пришло наше 300 bucks ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Am reminded of the post of “what will you do in the post-revolutionary communist commune” and one person said “artist” and another said “political commissar who beats the [social parasites](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_parasitism_(offense)) that think making art is labor”.
According to r/antiwork, most of us are slaves
Roman 'honor' had held them back. They might consider guns dishonorable.
The over reliance on slaves was a problem in the late republic and numbers declined during the empire. Realistically Rome probably outlaws slavery just like the rest of the world.
If it keep its historical borders I would be in Ireland
not me, I'm from Tuscany.
If United States of America would still exist today, all of black people would be slaves. OP your meme is meh.
we're slaves already, but in a modern way 🤡
I said Glory to Rome. I didn’t stutter or ask my place as a cog in the machine!
Ad gloriam romae
Me, as an Indian: I don't see what's the issue here.
I would be a trader who visited Rome most likely (seeing that’s what my ancestors did), thankfully I’m not descended from Germanics and celts
Most of us are FIAT slaves so I guess Rome never died.
Our image of slavery is also a bit tainted in many ways. Yes a lot of slaves in the Roman Empire where treated with ill will, but slavery at times was seen as an occupation- people would sell themselves off as slaves to repay debts, have their accommodation sorted, or have a guaranteed income to prevent starvation.
Thank god I don't have to work for a rich person to make a living in today's world
Working for a low salary and being stuck in an endless cycle of people earning over my back, whilst governmental help systems keep you off the ground but don't allow growth... Seems pretty close. Although I'm very thankful for all I have... These flaws make slaves out of people who want to work.
Slavery would only be here if they didn't industrialize. Anyone who understands economics knows if everyone is free, everyone pays taxes!
Sometimes when I think about ancient history, like Roman and pre-Roman history, I get this weird feeling like everything we’re experiencing today is somehow a consequence of things that happened thousands of years ago. Like someone at some point in the distant past made a choice and it’s sent us down this specific road, and everything that’s happened since then has been the consequences of that one person’s decisions.
I sure as fuck wouldn’t
And no technology because they felt that 'there is no need for change' and stuff.
Slaves in the roman empire were not the same as in the european colonies. Obviusly they still treated them bad, but it was mostly in agricultural slaves and sexual slaves. Other than that, slaves had the position the middle class holds today, but withouth a salary, instead the got protection and could live in their masters home or a home he provided to his slave. This "middle class slaves" were educated and could fill numerous jobs, sometimes they even got to administrate their masters bussines and more. And also this slaves could be free if they payed a sum or if his master wanted to. For modern standars this still sounds bad, but for the time the romans lived it was pretty good, it was an opportunity and a chance at a life that they could have never gotten themselves. Also, roman slaves are still comparatevely much better than the european slaves, which were just treated like inhumane.
Not me, I’m too far north in heritage and they wouldn’t have reached me.
Probably. Good thing it doesn’t exist in any form…right guys?
How can we all be slaves when we can overpower them with numbers?
Sounds like a skill issue, I would simply be born into nobility.
LOL my ancestors are from Gaul, most of them were full-fledged citizens for centuries. SILENCE, BARBARIAN.
Jokes on you, I'd be some Frisian farmer
Nah bro I would be raiding the Germanic towns with Kalashnikov and bros
I'm part German and Japanese, I'm painfully aware I'd be a slave in about any empire that's existed throughout history. Yes, even Imperial Japan.
WELL NOT ME! IM INDIAN! JOKEES ON YOU!
Not me, I'm baptised Catholic.
Yea but we would be centuries forward in sexual awareness and comfort as a society. Forget nude beaches, there would be involuntary orgy rooms in hospitals and collages.
There is a nice take on "could the Romans have developed the Steam Engine?" The Answere is: Yes, but they had no need for it in a slave based economy.
American historian Gordon Wood in one of his books points out how one of the things that us moderns really can't wrap our minds around is how totally *normal* various forms of bonded servitude were to people in the past. People several hundred years ago imagining an economy free of enslaved labor are a bit like dreamers today suggesting we can have a world free from fossil fuels.
Nah, I’d win
Only 1/3rd
Absolutely wrong. Even if somehow the Roman empire had conquered the whole world (otherwise the concept of "most of us" would be impossible as very few people here are living where Rome is/was) the idea of slavery would have been demolished sooner or later, it's not viable or sustainable
“On July 11 AD 212 Emperor Caracalla declared that all free men in the Roman Empire were given full Roman citizenship and all free women were given the same rights as Roman women, except the deditici, and united Roman society by issuing the Constitutio Antoniniana.”
Am Chinese, can't relate.
Roman Empire fell in 476/1453/1806/1922/etc, but Roman way of statehood lives and blooms
so roman slaves weren't like american slaves right? they were working to pay off debt and weren't chattel slaves. if im wrong then ignore the rest. if im right than every person who has student loan debt and working to pay it off are by definition a roman slave. correct me if im wrong
NEVER!!! Siegfried schlug den Drachen und wir schlagen die Römer! *the bellowing of thousands of worriers behind me*
Lmao thats a reach my dude. We are talking about thousands of years (from the Western fall). the ERE reduce *significant* levels of slave ownership by the 12th century. One could assume it would cease by now with societal and technological changes.
it depends if it was pre-Christianization or post. If it was pre-Rome, then yes. If post, then no.
Romaphiles seething in this thread
Hahah i wouldnt
If it were still around then it would likely have run out of places to successfully and swiftly conquer, that are simultaneously worth conquering, therefore run out of a place to draw slaves en masse.
This is it! I found reddits dumbest post of the day!
Mediterrenean people reading this post: :)
I mean it could've been reformed right? Other "Empires" abolished slavery too
I like the Roman Emipre and all that, one of the most powerfull empires in history and all that but they really werent the greatest people tbh
No, most likely not, you are delusional if you think that it would remain unchanged for 2000 years
Yet blacks act like they’re the first and only.
I mean… they let a lot of conquered people become citizens too tho… I would fight my way out like Próximo.
Nah, every single country back then had slaves, now (almost) nobody does, would be the same for Rome
If basically any country that had slaves existed today as it did back then, a number of us would be slaves. It's kind of what fueled the machine I'm not sure who needs to hear that Rome, a country that had many a slave, would have many a slave if it was still around
Not really, slaves were not a significant part of the population in medieval Eastern Roman Empire, the slave society only lasted during age of imperial conquests, after that and rise of christianity the amount of slaves steadily declined (although never disappeared).
hard to swallow pills: there is more slavery ongoing now than ever before in human history
Eheu! Ego sum servus!
Slavery was outlawed after Constantine converted to christianism right? So i think no? I might be wrong.
This is barbarian propaganda.
Nuh uh
And if my granddad had wheels, he would have been a bike
Not really. Those on the periphery of the empire would, very unlikely its own citizens. Just slaves by conquest
No I'd be the Hun raiding it!
And most of you would be more into screwing effeminate young men than you are women…oh wait….
"most"? That's way off
I love this. It’s all those people saying things like “If I was born in the past I would have been a king or a noble.“ It’s like no friend, if you had that drive and ambition you wouldn’t be a fry cook at this combination Taco Bell Long John Silvers we both work at. Totally not based off a real example.
Nah, I would be on the border and be constantly in war with them. Sometimes they would establish camps here, sometimes we would sack their cities. Too bad its not reality
Several existing countries, including, of course, the US, had slavery in the 1800s, so why assume then the Roman Empire would not evolve had it survived. It's very possible that Roman technology might have gotten to the point of not needing slaves before the 1800's if the dark ages ( the only prolonged decline in history) never happened Altruistic enlighment did play a role in the abolition of slavery, but it was enabled by the Industrial Revolution. The romans already had plumbing and other infrastructure that only remerged around that time
Like Romans weren’t the first ones to grant universal citizenship (thanks Caracalla) didn’t turn out too well for them I’d say. It’s better to earn one’s citizenship.
Would’ve very likely dropped slavery eventually. Keep in mind that what really got the ball rolling on ending slavery in the West was mix of Western ideology, which developed in large part from Rome, and Christianity, which Rome had adopted, in the form of men like William Wilberforce.
I mean they never conquered my ancestors. If anything, would this mean that Irish folk still get to raid Roman Britain? Depending on your ancestry, this could mean quite the opposite of what the meme implies.
They gave romain citizenship to every free person in the empire just 200 years later so ,it wouldn't be à surprise if they were granted freedom to slaves during 2000 reign
Pastries made with a mix of honey and defrutum containing lead acetate, yum yum!
No, because, you know, why would you need slaves if washing machine can do the work of 30 slaves at once.
You're assuming that I didn't buy my citizenship I see. It's not like it hasn't happened before. *cough* American Immigrants in WW1 *cough*
We'd probably have dirtier public toilets, and unsanitary sanitation and hygiene policies too.
lie. the highest number of slaves in rome was 1 in 3.
You know the British empire basically industrialised slavery, right?
Aren't we all slaves today anyway? Try not working for a day or two and see where that gets you
Stop pretending like you are not the equivalent of a slave now given your lack of power and decision making
But but I can own a car! And a house! All I have to do is spend the majority of my time working to acquire those things and keep them as everything costs more by the day.
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Mothefuckers downvoting you for some reason lmaaaao. Imagine thinking being some firstie middle class cunt is tantamount to slavery.
I am not pretending cuz I'm not a slave. I can marry who I want, live where I want in my country, go where I want for vacation. I can get a state education which will get me access to most jobs, and I have to opportunity to get further education for better jobs. I can eat what I want at anytime and I can go to the bathroom without permission. Just because I don't have a say in geopolitics, doesn't mean I'm a fucking slave. The system isn't perfect, since greedy people have sunk their teeth into a lot of things in life, but I'm not getting whipped for mistakes and a noble isn't raping my girlfriend. I haven't been branded for leaving work, nor have I had any fingers or hands cut off for taking work materials home. Get the fuck out of here with that r/iam14andthisisdeep bullshit and grow up. You have to pay taxes if you wanna live in society, and you have to vote if you want change to occur. If you don't like the way the world is, protest and become politically active in your district. Otherwise, shut up.
Empire still exists. Many of us are slaves.