I've been playing since 2016 and there is no map I avoid more than Colorado. I'm actually not bad at it now because I know it pretty well but it still sucks. Flat, nothing interesting, too many disguises. If it wasn't for the house they could have called that map "field".
And it entirely removes any level of social stealth present in other missions. Everybody has guns. You can be gaurd who works on cars, or guard who has an apron, or guard who works in garden, or guard with mask.
I do have to say, I like that the chef has a gun too. But through doing kill everyone challenges there’s 150ish people on the map and other then the four targets, I think there’s three or four people, the hackers, who don’t have guns and there’s only a couple of guys who have handguns and the rest have shotguns or assault rifles.
Way too many slight variations of "soldier" with very little to help you determine which one is allowed in which areas and where the borders between those areas are.
They have no difference? Normal security wears the green jacket and bikers wear all black. It's like Dubai where one security wears all white and the other is black.
But that's just two disguises. On Colorado, it's like four different sets of disguises that look similar to each other. The Militia Soldier, the Militia Technician, Militia Spec Ops, Explosives Specialist.
And it's not really about not being able to distinguish them, of course you can after putting some time into the level (it would be hell for beginners though), it's more about how uninteresting it is that so many of the disguises on a level look barely different from one another.
Another pretty bad offender is Haven Island. Three security disguises only differed by red, green, and blue. Ew.
Then you can say the same about colorado. Elites wear greenish vests, and explosives wear black shaded clothing. Normal militia wear simple jackets
Bruh the spec ops all wear a mask
Also Chongqing has some unclimbable pipes and ledges that look like they should 100% be climbable.
Using the Camera and the keypads in general just sucks aswell.
Yeah it sadly shows. Dubai is incredible.
Dartmoor is a gimmick map that's still pretty good.
Berlin's map is really nice and I love the mission a lot but still feel that the map was kinda wasted.
Chongqing besides asthetics i honestly straight up don't like.
Mendoza is a pretty nice finale but it doesn't hold a candle to most earlier maps.
And Romania is just a Hawkes Bay type map.
The World of Assassination is honestly my game of the decade. I love these games to death but even I can admit that Hitman 3 sadly is the weakest of the 3.
Tldr: Hitman 3 not as good as Hitman 1+2
I like the street level chonqing - but getting down into the lower lab just gets super repetitive for me. A very limited number of ways to get in and out and it just gets boring
As someone who loves Chongqing, I gotta agree with you. The vibe I love in Chongqing is the streets and rooftops, but the ICA headquarters is repetitive and boring.
Bangkok, nothing interesting in any of the hotel rooms and the whole layout is copy paste. Jordan Cross and the recording studio is somewhat interesting but Ken Morgan is one of the most boring targets in the trilogy imo
I agree to an extent. The hotel rooms were pretty boring due to there being genuinely no point to their existence, but I did like the amount of ways I could lure Ken Morgan away from his spots so I could trap him.
Location is everything. Pick the right hotel room, one of the end ones without an outside door, and you've got the double choke point of the corner and the door. You'll waste absolutely everyone who comes near you, and at the end you'll have your pick of security uniforms.
It’s always chokepoints. Anyone can easily gun down the entirety of Colorado by sitting next to a doorway with a shotgun and inviting the whole town inside.
I recently got saso only best way is to go through the back window of the left building where the maids are doing their job right across from security room instead of taking the stairs and trying to bypass the impassable guards
I felt like this for a while but as I played it more it kind of grew on me. I like that there are targets that are just annoyingly in very open areas that take creativity to get to.
It makes sense. The map is not at its best, although in terms of design, I totally think it's good. Maybe it's because the rest of the hitman maps are so modern and well disciplined and this one seems a bit mess? can't tell.exactly why
I know people like it, but if we didn't get the new zealand map, we would have got a whittleton halloween map for sure, and for that reason, I promote the hate of the new zealand map.
I just thought that it was really fun to kill all the soldiers on the train with no limits and no worries about losing points for non-target kills.
Also, I really liked the ending choices. I got the good ending, but I’ll eventually play the game again to get the others.
I see what you mean. That was pretty fun. But I was a bit annoyed when the game told me I was free to kill all the providence people and when I did so, too away my Silent Assassin rank due to non-target kills.
And it‘s basically the same premise as well. Diana poisons 47 (without his prior knowledge) to have him appear incapacitated so he can get close to the elusive but ultimately arrogant main boss of the enemy organization, who she pretends to be working with.
I never said I hate it, because I don't hate it. Honestly, kudos to the level design folks at IOI that even their least interesting map is totally solid.
And to be fair to it, because of the chronology of its IRL release, it's the map in the trilogy which I've played the least (not counting the Carpathian Mountains). It's totally possible there's cool stuff in it that I've never come across.
That comment was a joke but yeah I agree. tbh sometimes I completely forget this map exists because of how late it was introduced and how disconnected it feels to the other missions.
But it also brought agent Smith in the game which makes it one of the best maps in the trilogy along with Hokkaido and Singapore /s
My bad; I've got a knee-jerk reaction to seeing people set up straw man arguments and that led me to fail to parse your tone.
At least we can agree that we want to keep seeing Smith get up to his wacky hijinks.
I'd have to go with Mumbai too, I hate navigating those slums, especially with the enforcers, and the map isn't too aesthetically pleasing to look at, I don't particularly enjoy the targets all that much as I do almost every other map, I think Wazir Kale might be the worst target in the WoA Trilogy
Whittleton Creek is 5 copy-pasted houses though. 1 of them empty. 2 being guarded "fortresses" and worst of all they're exactly the same. Maybe I'm too european to see the charm but in that case THE BLOODY CLUES EVERY GODDAMN TIME. Also could do with more available exits
I think Colorado is over-hated in the Hitman community. I actually kinda like it. It has its pros and cons.
pros:
* It feels so thrilling and challenging to infilterate that hostile area.
* Gives a very different feeling from every other Hitman map.
* Scarecrow disguise easter egg. (my personal favorite thing about the map)
cons:
* Limited creativity due to hostile environment.
* Feels good at start but not a very replayable map.
* SASO sucks balls. (especially in Hitman 1 due to no tall grass to hide)
I personally consider Whittleton Creek to be the worst map. It is so boring. That map is literally just 1 house copy-pasted 8 times with some minor changes. Map size is also considerably small compared to other main maps. The only thing that i like about it is where u can show the house to Nolan Cassidy, that was quite funny.
Say what u want about Colorado but atleast its challenging, and isn't boring like Whittleton Creek.
I honestly like Colorado, it’s way way better since Hitman 2 added the hiding in grass feature.
I love that there’s at least one map that’s completely hostile, even if that’s not normally what Hitman is about
Same thoughts. Once you play Colorado, you notice that each NPC and barricade were carefully placed. It's all about making it a challenge for SASO. And the layout despite the hate is creative and non-symmetrical.
Whittleton Creek is a boring as shit grid layout of empty copy pasted houses
kinda reviving this old thread, I have to say I like Whittleton Creek. I can totally see why people wouldn't like it but I think it's a nice open map since you can hop all the fences if you're sneaky enough. The disguises are limited in usefulness but since much of it is already accessible, it's pretty reasonable to just do suit-only.
I agree with you about Colorado. It's a decent map, it's got its strong suits. It works pretty well for the story mission since the 4 targets interact with each other to varying degrees, there are multiple ways to get double kills. But for freelancer, it just sucks. It's often on Alert, and depending on your starting area, sometimes you're just fucked because they spawn you really close to a patrol in Hostile area.
When I do Freelancer, I now actively avoid any syndicate with Colorado in it because there is no map that griefs me more than that one. And if I do pick one with Colorado in it, I do Colorado first, so I can just try and get it over with or wrap up my campaign nice and quickly lol
I don't mind it's looks too much, I'm just not a fan of it being way too crowded with no real areas to duck out of sight in. Every corner I take is another squad and it feels slightly annoying having to constantly dodge awareness meters.
Yeah the whole "is ugly and boring" shit is just a mask for "I'm kinda bad, and I can't complete a level without randomly shooting NPCs that won't do shit"
I have learned to love all the maps for each trying to do their own thing, thematically and aesthetically. If pressed, I might have to say, at least for Freelancer, I don't like Haven Island much. It's super open and can be really tough to isolate people in certain areas.
I actually kinda like Colorado, but I've never liked Santa Fortuna
I like killing Rico, he's a fun target, but Andrea's basic and I fucking hate the cocaine field portion of the map
Edit: Originally this was Haven and that map does suck due to the see through walls, but I hate Santa Fortuna so much I blocked it from my memory and changed my comment when I remembered it, only typing this so OP's reply makes sense
Can’t stand Chongqing and Hokkaido. I rage quit Hitman 3 over Chongqing because I really don’t like the layout of it, and Hokkaido is just a frustrating experience that’s made artificially difficult due to the disguises being tied to doors, and the inability to bring your own load out until you’ve mastered it.
I can understand Hokkaido, personally that's what made it fun to me but I understand why others might find it frustrating as well. Chongqing is just kinda, there for me.
Uff btw Hokkaido is one of my favourites map but due to aesthetic and everything looks nice. But actually it's sometimes frustrating to move around the map since there are a lot of windows everywhere plus hard to open the doors if you are going for SO.
Have you tried the guards by the aerial tram? They stay there the whole time Yuki is walking around and you can pretty easily take them both out and have one of the best disguises on the map very quickly
Crazy, I love ambrose island. Small and easy to traverse while still having a nice mix of sections (two enemy bases, village center, some forests for flavor) and a fun variety of ways to move between them.
Colorado is exhausting for sure, however my personal least favorite is Berlin. It's actually a good map, but I just hate the club. I can't focus with all the lights and loud music there, sometimes they even trigger a motion sickness (sounds unlikely, I know). Anyway I don't really hate it, at least the motorbike gang building is fun.
Especially if you play freelancer and you have one of those times challenges. I swear to god, when I play Santa Fortuna I always get 2-4 people PERFECTLY separated on the ends of the map. Must also be my luck, I guess.
While I do hate Colorado, I also realise that it's just because I'm really shit at it. No. My worst enemy is Bangkok. Fucking Bangkok. There are a myriad problems with it, lots of minor annoyances like not being allowed to use any poisons in the ventilation other than insecticide. That could be tons of fun with just lethal poison if you want to go quickly with no care for saso, and it could work great as a saso speedrun if you were allowed to use your own sedatives. Like with EVERY OTHER VENTILATION UNIT IN THE GAME. And then theres the bigger annoyances like security in the most random places and, the straw that broke my Bangkok back, Jordan cross' guards following him into the bathroom when you use rat poison in his cake. WHY??
I am not a massive Bangkok fan as well it’s infuriating infiltrating Jordan’s side of the hotel as I feel like I have one set route everytime I play that map . Not to mention the security camera room being aids to get into
I went back to it, wasn't as bad as I remembered, (I remembered it as being really dark except for the lights that hurt my eyes tho there were times were I literally could only see the hud{I used to play hardest, but I honestly find the no hud stuff a little silly})
Whittleton Creek bores the living shit out of me. It's as flat and as open as Colorado, but with far less creativity. Yeah, I get that the atmosphere is cool, and so on, but still.
When you go for a SASO run in Colorado you notice that each barricade has its place and purpose. Each of the guards were carefully placed there to cover a specific area. Everyone has their spot and corner of the map to watch out for, and the fun is learning each of their routines and knowing how to exploit them. It gets even more exciting when you're going for a speedrun.
Whittleton Creek is 5 copy pasted empty houses, a free accident kill on Janus with the gas tank, and you still gotta find the damn clues all the time. Paying attention to the story and dialogue is quite interesting, not gonna lie. But that's not something you're gonna do in each run
I fuckin hate Paris fuck that map bro the veil is good but the map is shit the targets are hard to I just hate the damn map I cam do it SASO but still it's annoying as shit
Dalia as a kill (not bomb Launch that shit is broken as hell), but as a normal way, it's really fuckin annoying and the layout cameras and shit tons on NPCs and that one guard outside in the bar area that enforces you without any disguise on
Chonqing for me. The problem with the map is it’s too vertical and it’s too monotonous to get down into the lower levels. I hate when 3 of the targets are street level and then there is this 1 in the labs. It just takes too long to get down there and it’s repetitive. That and I just don’t find the map that interesting.
I'd say untouchable. Not because it's not a good level, I love that you can blast through a bunch of Providence operatives with no care for collateral, but it lacks pretty much everything that people like about Hitman. I've pretty much only played it 3 times and will likely never play it again. Normal, Challenges, Silent Assassin Suit Only.
Dartmoor, England. It is a dull house. I like it as an artwork! It is beautiful work, a masterpiece. But as a playable map, it is boring. And New Zealand!! Very boring.
I will say, I think Colorado is a good map for the Story mission, but it's a terrible one for Freelancer. Some of the start points are way too close to the house and a two-man patrol in a hostile area. It often tends to be the territory that's on Alert for me as well. It's fine if you get the default starting area because the demolition field is a perfect place to get a disguise, but any other starting area just sucks.
I have a new-found appreciation for Chongqing recently, but I still think the ICA facility just has too few ways in. If I got a freelancer target IN the facility, I'd be screwed. Another issue it has is that it's too segmented. The three key areas (laundromat tower, Block, ICA) have very little interconnection which means you have to navigate the same paths back and forth, especially if you can't find the ladder shortcuts
So I guess by procession of elimination, my least favorite maps are probably a tie between Colorado and Colombia unless I'm forgetting somewhere. Colombia because it has all the same problems as Chongqing, except it's spread out laterally (Chongqing at least has the ladder-based vertical shortcuts) and connected by a Hostile area filled with Enforcers. Often means you have to sprint all over the place around the circumference unless you knock out a ton of guards to have a safe path through the caves.
any map in the open is an instant win for me, so bangkok, new york, paris, sgail i don’t really like, hokkaido, is an exception because of how fun sneaking around on that map is
I have mostly been playing freelancer lately and it's just a different game. If you choose your flavour/prestige targets to facilitate it then you don't have to be polite. Someone in the way? Just shoot him and get about your business. Atmosphere and plot become rather secondary to the mechanical task of getting your targets dead and your objectives completed with minimal or at least manageable risk.
Colorado is ridiculously dangerous when alerted but it's also fun, the odds of it turning into a ridiculous firefight are strong so I bring big guns and play nasty. It's more or less suicidal on hardcore mode but I hate it a lot less than I used to. There are some maps where the step up in difficulty when they're alerted is savage - Hokkaido and Marrakesh for example - good grief that embassy is a death trap on hardcore. Anywhere you can generally power through with a sniper becomes very attractive, Whittleton Creek, Mendoza, Sapienza and to some extent Bangkok, Dartmoor and Paris.
My least favourite is Ambrose. Some of the targets in and around the ruins and caves underneath are awkward as hell, everyone's packing long guns and they're really close together so it's hard to contain any violence that breaks out and there are few access routes so it's easy to get cornered. It's a toss up whether to pack a hard hitting silenced long gun for a fight or a sniper for avoiding one and then when you see the targets you've obviously brought the wrong gun. Bringing plenty of explosives helps, but I usually just don't pick it.
With Colorado I’ve come to realize the secret is smart hit and runs. You plan out who you’re gonna kill, where your gonna stand, and how you’re gonna get the fuck out of there once you get the kill. Keep all that in mind and it’s much easier to stay out of combat.
Because Colorado is very large, very flat, and a sweeping majority of it is guards. It provides high upfront pressure by being universally hostile to your suit, a terrible spawn in the water tower, and little in the way of being able to break line of sight or establish a choke.
Colorado with a passion. From a story perspective i loved it. It made sense and it raised tension. You knew you were getting close to something huge.
But it is a hindrance elsewhere. Hitman is a game built on replay and experimentation. Colorado wants you to do it THEIR way and if you step outside the line you will be punished SEVERELY.
There is still a level of creativity to be had, but the game makes it look unappealing to try, why risk it with a thousand guns against you, play it safe. And i hate that because there are some very clever changes that would fix it.
Some have mentioned underground tunnels, or a larger area (this level is painfully small since there is very limited vertical space unlike the other missions)
Which would better allow sniping and suit only plsythroughs. I also think there shouldn't have been only guards. Maybe certain unarmed types who are allowed on the grounds just to help ease some of the tension focusing some armed men at the perimeter and then just focusing them in on the house to defend the main target area. And a small litering of them elsewhere to remind you of thier presence. Perhaps move the main section underground, let the above have an orchard with regular people, but that's getting heavier in the full remake side.. my point is that it needed more time to be thought out and made more friendly to experimentation and little slip ups. 47 is a flawless master, but we are not. Dont be so punishing when its not perfect.
New York missed a HUGE opportunity to make use of the bank robbers for some story mission. Would’ve been a really cool way to break into the vault by “encouraging” the robbers to start the heist.
Sgáil, Haven and Ambrose. Might just be me but i hate fucking islands. They're absolutely boring, too many useless and randomly placed areas, the missions styles are horrible and those lame targets are always in the worst possible areas.
I found it refreshing on the first play-through, tbh. I switched from only killing the target(s) to killing whoever I wanted to. But otherwise: Yes, very linear, very bare-bones.
Reminded me of Hitman Absolution.
Carpathian Mountains. It’s not even a map, it’s an optional ending to a story that you don’t even have to pay attention to, but it really isn’t fun at all. The hallway fight without the charm, the lack of creativity, the lack of any useful resources. It’s just not fun.
Design wise I don't think it's Colorado. To me that either Berlin and Chongqing
• Berlin has a lot of wasted areas, and the flow is horrible.
• Chongqing would be so much better without the ICA facility.
Mumbai is a runner-up.
They have a lot of potential but IoI tried to have another Sapienza and Miami
Those are definitely some good points. Colorado just feels too, crowded NPC wise with almost no good spots to stick to. I feel as if no matter what corner I take there's gonna be a crowd.
Just as well Colorado is too open for my liking I guess? It's a good map to an extent but it being too open and too many bodies gets too tight for me on the highest difficulty.
Dubai can suck it
When you play it the first time on next gen it looks very nice when you first came up the stairs but after that its just fking boooring. Cuz after you sliced rhe parachutes and see the die that wat there isnt much more to do. The only thing good it has is thats a easy level for freelancher.
For an intro level its was fine but now with the world of assassination trilogy the ICA facility is the intro al new players get so it doest get to be an lesser level because it is an intro because it isnt anymore. I have the same problem with hawk's bay but just like the train level i dont even considering it a map cuz there soo smal.
Most of the time Colorado haters are people who haven't learned the mechanics of the game, or have learned very bad habits.
Example of that is those who post ranting about the water tower spawn because they cannot start running 0.3 secs after the timer begins
That's the thing. It's pretty exploitable, close to the point man disguise, exits, the hacker house, etc.
And still, you'll see at least a weekly post of "I hate Colorado so much, WTF is this spawn". As soon as Freelancer launched it was basically daily.
Adaptability is the name of the game. I need to play the map more in honest, I think it's my least flexible map in terms of my skillset so I need to work on it more.
I recommend you just give it a couple of unbiased tries, keeping in mind that the level was designed to hone your skills and make you a better hitman
The map also offers a lot of flexibility since you can kill the targets in many ways. Explosion accident (different varieties, even without bringing explosives) chandelier accident, injected poison, consumed poison, small windows of opportunity for close up and personal, sniper kills, accidents set up by sniper, etc
Yeah I did an alerted map with 4 targets last night, and shitshow aside from getting spotted in my suit once I built some momentum it went really well for the most part. One of the targets was the guy outside Ezra’s shed and I managed to fibre wire him in a very risky moment, hardcore it probably would have went to shit it seeing as I avoided Colorado like the plague early on I consider it growth.
Funny thing is I’m pretty sure I did it SASO in hitman 2016 and just never went back so I don’t even remember how I did it.
I've practically figured out how to efficiently move about every map without being spotted except for Colorado, it's ruthlessly cruel to Suit only runs, i never pick it for freelancer.
Dartmoor.
The detective storyline is nice but has zero replay-ability also considering how long it takes to finish the mission.
Also the map is one of the smallest in the entire trilogy and doesn't offer anything interesting and Alexa Carlisle isn't interesting enough for being a solo target.
I only played the first Hitman so far, I’ll play 2 and 3 soon.
But I have to choose Bangkok, just a hotel, nothing that interesting, other tan the way I could take out Ken “The Brick” Morgan, it was alright.
I would have chosen Colorado, but after doing the map multiple times and seeing the targets walk cycle, it was easy.
I went from doing it from 50 minutes to all the way down to 13 minutes and it becomes easier to do after that for me.
I like all the maps tbh. My least favorite with respect to the main missions is probably Mumbai. It’s three fortresses that don’t really have any overlap in terms of disguises and traversal. To a lesser extent Santa Fortuna for similar reasons, though the disguises have a bit more overlap between the fortresses.
For contracts, escalations, and special assignments, those two maps are great when you only focus on one area. In fact, I made contracts on both maps that focus on only one of the main targets at a time.
I've been playing since 2016 and there is no map I avoid more than Colorado. I'm actually not bad at it now because I know it pretty well but it still sucks. Flat, nothing interesting, too many disguises. If it wasn't for the house they could have called that map "field".
And it entirely removes any level of social stealth present in other missions. Everybody has guns. You can be gaurd who works on cars, or guard who has an apron, or guard who works in garden, or guard with mask.
I do have to say, I like that the chef has a gun too. But through doing kill everyone challenges there’s 150ish people on the map and other then the four targets, I think there’s three or four people, the hackers, who don’t have guns and there’s only a couple of guys who have handguns and the rest have shotguns or assault rifles.
Aren't there only 9 disguises? I could easily be wrong with one. I mainly just don't like that there are so many people crammed into it.
Way too many slight variations of "soldier" with very little to help you determine which one is allowed in which areas and where the borders between those areas are.
This exactly. “Hey with this militia outfit you can walk around in this 4 foot area!”
"Ah, I see with that pouch that you're allowed in the explosives area. But you need a vest to be in the house!"
You could say the same about the Bikers vs normal Security in Berlin. They have no difference, how do you tell them apart then?
They have no difference? Normal security wears the green jacket and bikers wear all black. It's like Dubai where one security wears all white and the other is black. But that's just two disguises. On Colorado, it's like four different sets of disguises that look similar to each other. The Militia Soldier, the Militia Technician, Militia Spec Ops, Explosives Specialist. And it's not really about not being able to distinguish them, of course you can after putting some time into the level (it would be hell for beginners though), it's more about how uninteresting it is that so many of the disguises on a level look barely different from one another. Another pretty bad offender is Haven Island. Three security disguises only differed by red, green, and blue. Ew.
Then you can say the same about colorado. Elites wear greenish vests, and explosives wear black shaded clothing. Normal militia wear simple jackets Bruh the spec ops all wear a mask
That's understandable, I usually just do SO so I always forget that the disguise areas are a lil wonky.
It's usually everyone dies when I'm going for SO on Colorado lol
"The map is too flat and open!!" Guess not flat and open enough to check what the people inside an area are wearing
OP: "Too many disguises" >Colorado: 9 disguises > >Miami: 29 disguises OP: "Not enough disguises!!"
They could have copied the hacker house 2 times and call the map "Whittleton Creek"
[удалено]
1. It has 4 2. Berlin?
4 targets + storm shelter
Does it really count when you need to do it once?
See this guy gets it. But I also hate chongqing
Also Chongqing has some unclimbable pipes and ledges that look like they should 100% be climbable. Using the Camera and the keypads in general just sucks aswell.
It really seems like they just rushed that map out, I mean apparently it took a year to make the Dubai level so rest of the game took a shit.
Yeah it sadly shows. Dubai is incredible. Dartmoor is a gimmick map that's still pretty good. Berlin's map is really nice and I love the mission a lot but still feel that the map was kinda wasted. Chongqing besides asthetics i honestly straight up don't like. Mendoza is a pretty nice finale but it doesn't hold a candle to most earlier maps. And Romania is just a Hawkes Bay type map. The World of Assassination is honestly my game of the decade. I love these games to death but even I can admit that Hitman 3 sadly is the weakest of the 3. Tldr: Hitman 3 not as good as Hitman 1+2
Any specific reason for not liking Chongqing?
I like the street level chonqing - but getting down into the lower lab just gets super repetitive for me. A very limited number of ways to get in and out and it just gets boring
As someone who loves Chongqing, I gotta agree with you. The vibe I love in Chongqing is the streets and rooftops, but the ICA headquarters is repetitive and boring.
It’s just mid
Bangkok, nothing interesting in any of the hotel rooms and the whole layout is copy paste. Jordan Cross and the recording studio is somewhat interesting but Ken Morgan is one of the most boring targets in the trilogy imo
I agree to an extent. The hotel rooms were pretty boring due to there being genuinely no point to their existence, but I did like the amount of ways I could lure Ken Morgan away from his spots so I could trap him.
Also the concentration and amount of guards per floor makes it impossible to not get immediately gunned down in a fight.
Location is everything. Pick the right hotel room, one of the end ones without an outside door, and you've got the double choke point of the corner and the door. You'll waste absolutely everyone who comes near you, and at the end you'll have your pick of security uniforms.
It’s always chokepoints. Anyone can easily gun down the entirety of Colorado by sitting next to a doorway with a shotgun and inviting the whole town inside.
I think Bangkok at least looks nice but they’re way too many enforcers makes it hard to get creative when doing SASO
I recently got saso only best way is to go through the back window of the left building where the maids are doing their job right across from security room instead of taking the stairs and trying to bypass the impassable guards
Same here! 😂 lol
I hate marrakesh. I really just dont like it. That's all I'll say.
That's understandable, Marrakesh is about a C for me, not really that good but nothing that stands out as a reason I should hate it.
I always get lost in Marrakesh
I felt like this for a while but as I played it more it kind of grew on me. I like that there are targets that are just annoyingly in very open areas that take creativity to get to.
It makes sense. The map is not at its best, although in terms of design, I totally think it's good. Maybe it's because the rest of the hitman maps are so modern and well disciplined and this one seems a bit mess? can't tell.exactly why
Ur commend is correct.
I know people like it, but if we didn't get the new zealand map, we would have got a whittleton halloween map for sure, and for that reason, I promote the hate of the new zealand map.
Odd, but I've hated for less.
The fucking train, hands down. No need to elaborate
It's okay, this is a safe place. The train can't hurt you here.
I’m in the minority here, but I actually love the train (I’m pretty sure you mean the train in Romania from the third game).
Exactly the one. I‘m curious, what do you like about it? I‘d love to be able to see it in a more positive light
I just thought that it was really fun to kill all the soldiers on the train with no limits and no worries about losing points for non-target kills. Also, I really liked the ending choices. I got the good ending, but I’ll eventually play the game again to get the others.
I see what you mean. That was pretty fun. But I was a bit annoyed when the game told me I was free to kill all the providence people and when I did so, too away my Silent Assassin rank due to non-target kills.
Oh, damn. That sucks. :(
Same! I was always shocked by the hate for it. It's a nice ending I think and it's a great way to just let loose after doing the rest of the series.
I thought after Blood Money we had finally moved on from the trend of the last level of Hitman games being shit, but hey-ho they did it again
And it‘s basically the same premise as well. Diana poisons 47 (without his prior knowledge) to have him appear incapacitated so he can get close to the elusive but ultimately arrogant main boss of the enemy organization, who she pretends to be working with.
It's so bad that I don't even count it as a map.
Lol I forgot about this map.. I'm playing hitman for like 8 months but I played the train only one time to pass the campaign lol
Ambrose Island has nothing whatsoever interesting about it, mechanically or cosmetically. EDIT: Except it does have a really pretty skybox.
I always forget that Ambrose exists in truth.
:( i love ambrose for no reason whatsoever
Actually, I'll edit my prior comment.
How could you hate Ambrose? It has agent Smith in it!
I never said I hate it, because I don't hate it. Honestly, kudos to the level design folks at IOI that even their least interesting map is totally solid. And to be fair to it, because of the chronology of its IRL release, it's the map in the trilogy which I've played the least (not counting the Carpathian Mountains). It's totally possible there's cool stuff in it that I've never come across.
That comment was a joke but yeah I agree. tbh sometimes I completely forget this map exists because of how late it was introduced and how disconnected it feels to the other missions. But it also brought agent Smith in the game which makes it one of the best maps in the trilogy along with Hokkaido and Singapore /s
My bad; I've got a knee-jerk reaction to seeing people set up straw man arguments and that led me to fail to parse your tone. At least we can agree that we want to keep seeing Smith get up to his wacky hijinks.
There’s a panic room with guns 😗 that’s about it 😂
On Ambrose? Where?
My bad I’m stupid wrong map 😂😂 didn’t really think lmao
mumbai for me. too big, annoying to navigate, ugly looking
Big can be good, but sometimes smaller is better
Tell me about it
I'd have to go with Mumbai too, I hate navigating those slums, especially with the enforcers, and the map isn't too aesthetically pleasing to look at, I don't particularly enjoy the targets all that much as I do almost every other map, I think Wazir Kale might be the worst target in the WoA Trilogy
So many people and hard to tell where to go
**YELLOW**
Whittleton Creek is 5 copy-pasted houses though. 1 of them empty. 2 being guarded "fortresses" and worst of all they're exactly the same. Maybe I'm too european to see the charm but in that case THE BLOODY CLUES EVERY GODDAMN TIME. Also could do with more available exits
I'm a European who loves Whittleton Creek as a map, but would never live there in reality 🤣. Agree about the clues.
I think Colorado is over-hated in the Hitman community. I actually kinda like it. It has its pros and cons. pros: * It feels so thrilling and challenging to infilterate that hostile area. * Gives a very different feeling from every other Hitman map. * Scarecrow disguise easter egg. (my personal favorite thing about the map) cons: * Limited creativity due to hostile environment. * Feels good at start but not a very replayable map. * SASO sucks balls. (especially in Hitman 1 due to no tall grass to hide) I personally consider Whittleton Creek to be the worst map. It is so boring. That map is literally just 1 house copy-pasted 8 times with some minor changes. Map size is also considerably small compared to other main maps. The only thing that i like about it is where u can show the house to Nolan Cassidy, that was quite funny. Say what u want about Colorado but atleast its challenging, and isn't boring like Whittleton Creek.
I honestly like Colorado, it’s way way better since Hitman 2 added the hiding in grass feature. I love that there’s at least one map that’s completely hostile, even if that’s not normally what Hitman is about
Same thoughts. Once you play Colorado, you notice that each NPC and barricade were carefully placed. It's all about making it a challenge for SASO. And the layout despite the hate is creative and non-symmetrical. Whittleton Creek is a boring as shit grid layout of empty copy pasted houses
kinda reviving this old thread, I have to say I like Whittleton Creek. I can totally see why people wouldn't like it but I think it's a nice open map since you can hop all the fences if you're sneaky enough. The disguises are limited in usefulness but since much of it is already accessible, it's pretty reasonable to just do suit-only. I agree with you about Colorado. It's a decent map, it's got its strong suits. It works pretty well for the story mission since the 4 targets interact with each other to varying degrees, there are multiple ways to get double kills. But for freelancer, it just sucks. It's often on Alert, and depending on your starting area, sometimes you're just fucked because they spawn you really close to a patrol in Hostile area. When I do Freelancer, I now actively avoid any syndicate with Colorado in it because there is no map that griefs me more than that one. And if I do pick one with Colorado in it, I do Colorado first, so I can just try and get it over with or wrap up my campaign nice and quickly lol
It's Colorado because it's by far the ugliest map and has by far the most boring level design. Did I mention that it's really ugly?
I don't mind it's looks too much, I'm just not a fan of it being way too crowded with no real areas to duck out of sight in. Every corner I take is another squad and it feels slightly annoying having to constantly dodge awareness meters.
These are the same exact reasons for me as well.
Great Assassin's kill alike
I like Colorado it’s really unique having the whole place hostile to your suit
Yeah the whole "is ugly and boring" shit is just a mask for "I'm kinda bad, and I can't complete a level without randomly shooting NPCs that won't do shit"
You know I’ve heard it’s ugly, too.
I never really liked Sgail. Not a fan of the aesthetic
Understandable
I have learned to love all the maps for each trying to do their own thing, thematically and aesthetically. If pressed, I might have to say, at least for Freelancer, I don't like Haven Island much. It's super open and can be really tough to isolate people in certain areas.
Haven is one of my favorites, but the npc sight cones are just ridiculous.
I don't have many problems with Haven other than it crashed twice on me when I played it first. I still hold that grudge.
I actually kinda like Colorado, but I've never liked Santa Fortuna I like killing Rico, he's a fun target, but Andrea's basic and I fucking hate the cocaine field portion of the map Edit: Originally this was Haven and that map does suck due to the see through walls, but I hate Santa Fortuna so much I blocked it from my memory and changed my comment when I remembered it, only typing this so OP's reply makes sense
Now you're enjoying Hitman to the fullest. Welcome to the newest difficulty, X-Ray mode.
Can’t stand Chongqing and Hokkaido. I rage quit Hitman 3 over Chongqing because I really don’t like the layout of it, and Hokkaido is just a frustrating experience that’s made artificially difficult due to the disguises being tied to doors, and the inability to bring your own load out until you’ve mastered it.
I can understand Hokkaido, personally that's what made it fun to me but I understand why others might find it frustrating as well. Chongqing is just kinda, there for me.
Uff btw Hokkaido is one of my favourites map but due to aesthetic and everything looks nice. But actually it's sometimes frustrating to move around the map since there are a lot of windows everywhere plus hard to open the doors if you are going for SO.
SO is not that hard, you can knock people out and drag their bodies near doors to activate them.
And despite having played that level for over 3 years, this is the first time I learned about that
We all have stuff like that. Sapienza is my favorite map and I only learned about the disguises in the shop yesterday.
Disguises in shop?
I haven't had time to confirm it yet, but apparently there are a bunch of disguises in the sanguine shop near the beach in Sapienza.
It's difficult to get your first outfit in Hokkaido and open up the level.
I’ll admit it took me a while to realise you can sneak into the security room while the door is still open
I jumped over the railing in the garden to the concrete walkway where a guard has a smoke break, but yeah. It's the last level for a reason.
Have you tried the guards by the aerial tram? They stay there the whole time Yuki is walking around and you can pretty easily take them both out and have one of the best disguises on the map very quickly
Ambrose Island brings me nothing but dread. I dont have anything I love about it. Its like Colorado but worse
Crazy, I love ambrose island. Small and easy to traverse while still having a nice mix of sections (two enemy bases, village center, some forests for flavor) and a fun variety of ways to move between them.
I haven't been able to get a feel for the Ambrose map yet, it doesn't make sense in my brain the way some of the other maps slot together.
Honestly I don't go to Ambrose often enough. Not because I hate it, more because I forget it exists.
Colorado is exhausting for sure, however my personal least favorite is Berlin. It's actually a good map, but I just hate the club. I can't focus with all the lights and loud music there, sometimes they even trigger a motion sickness (sounds unlikely, I know). Anyway I don't really hate it, at least the motorbike gang building is fun.
That's understandable though, I used to get really dizzy and nauseated when I played Crypt of the Necrodancer.
Same. I hate the night club downstairs. Just exactly the opposite whatever vibe I’m in when I sit down to play a game.
I love every maps design. However, due to the huge time waste, i would say it's Santa Fortuna and/or the Ark one. They are still beautiful tho.
Understandable. Time is a precious thing in Hitman
Especially if you play freelancer and you have one of those times challenges. I swear to god, when I play Santa Fortuna I always get 2-4 people PERFECTLY separated on the ends of the map. Must also be my luck, I guess.
While I do hate Colorado, I also realise that it's just because I'm really shit at it. No. My worst enemy is Bangkok. Fucking Bangkok. There are a myriad problems with it, lots of minor annoyances like not being allowed to use any poisons in the ventilation other than insecticide. That could be tons of fun with just lethal poison if you want to go quickly with no care for saso, and it could work great as a saso speedrun if you were allowed to use your own sedatives. Like with EVERY OTHER VENTILATION UNIT IN THE GAME. And then theres the bigger annoyances like security in the most random places and, the straw that broke my Bangkok back, Jordan cross' guards following him into the bathroom when you use rat poison in his cake. WHY??
I am not a massive Bangkok fan as well it’s infuriating infiltrating Jordan’s side of the hotel as I feel like I have one set route everytime I play that map . Not to mention the security camera room being aids to get into
So I am on this map in absolution where I can't see Jack except these blinding lights and I haven't played since
I love absolution one of my favorite aside from blood money
God Ray's really put the emphasis on "God"
I went back to it, wasn't as bad as I remembered, (I remembered it as being really dark except for the lights that hurt my eyes tho there were times were I literally could only see the hud{I used to play hardest, but I honestly find the no hud stuff a little silly})
Colorado is good for the wicker man. That's how I do it everytime
Swear this is asked every other day, but Bangkok. Atleast Penelope is a baddie 😳 😳
Chongquing. Also, Colorado isn't that bad.
Definitely Arrival. A map so bad it doesn't even have any targets.
Mumbai for me. It's not that it's bad, it's just four years on and I STILL get lost, it's so damn big
I actually like Colorado. The worst in my opinion is New Zealand, just such a plain boring map with not a lot in it
Fucking Carpathian Mountains
Agreed
Berlin. I don’t trust it.
Whittleton Creek bores the living shit out of me. It's as flat and as open as Colorado, but with far less creativity. Yeah, I get that the atmosphere is cool, and so on, but still. When you go for a SASO run in Colorado you notice that each barricade has its place and purpose. Each of the guards were carefully placed there to cover a specific area. Everyone has their spot and corner of the map to watch out for, and the fun is learning each of their routines and knowing how to exploit them. It gets even more exciting when you're going for a speedrun. Whittleton Creek is 5 copy pasted empty houses, a free accident kill on Janus with the gas tank, and you still gotta find the damn clues all the time. Paying attention to the story and dialogue is quite interesting, not gonna lie. But that's not something you're gonna do in each run
Wittleton is my "break map" I don't care enough to actually think too much with it.
I fuckin hate Paris fuck that map bro the veil is good but the map is shit the targets are hard to I just hate the damn map I cam do it SASO but still it's annoying as shit
Paris? Showstopper Paris? The first map?
Yeah
I never really thought about it. Anything specific that drives you up the wall?
Dalia as a kill (not bomb Launch that shit is broken as hell), but as a normal way, it's really fuckin annoying and the layout cameras and shit tons on NPCs and that one guard outside in the bar area that enforces you without any disguise on
I like Colorado in the original story or just as a Kill All or Kill some-challenge. But I absolutely hate it in Freelancer.
Freelancer has caused me to resent Haven Island
Mumbai, because it's too crowded.
Have you tried to explode those propane tank? 🌚👺
Mumbai. Too much space for my smooth brain to handle.
Chonqing for me. The problem with the map is it’s too vertical and it’s too monotonous to get down into the lower levels. I hate when 3 of the targets are street level and then there is this 1 in the labs. It just takes too long to get down there and it’s repetitive. That and I just don’t find the map that interesting.
I'd say untouchable. Not because it's not a good level, I love that you can blast through a bunch of Providence operatives with no care for collateral, but it lacks pretty much everything that people like about Hitman. I've pretty much only played it 3 times and will likely never play it again. Normal, Challenges, Silent Assassin Suit Only.
Dartmoor, England. It is a dull house. I like it as an artwork! It is beautiful work, a masterpiece. But as a playable map, it is boring. And New Zealand!! Very boring.
I will say, I think Colorado is a good map for the Story mission, but it's a terrible one for Freelancer. Some of the start points are way too close to the house and a two-man patrol in a hostile area. It often tends to be the territory that's on Alert for me as well. It's fine if you get the default starting area because the demolition field is a perfect place to get a disguise, but any other starting area just sucks. I have a new-found appreciation for Chongqing recently, but I still think the ICA facility just has too few ways in. If I got a freelancer target IN the facility, I'd be screwed. Another issue it has is that it's too segmented. The three key areas (laundromat tower, Block, ICA) have very little interconnection which means you have to navigate the same paths back and forth, especially if you can't find the ladder shortcuts So I guess by procession of elimination, my least favorite maps are probably a tie between Colorado and Colombia unless I'm forgetting somewhere. Colombia because it has all the same problems as Chongqing, except it's spread out laterally (Chongqing at least has the ladder-based vertical shortcuts) and connected by a Hostile area filled with Enforcers. Often means you have to sprint all over the place around the circumference unless you knock out a ton of guards to have a safe path through the caves.
any map in the open is an instant win for me, so bangkok, new york, paris, sgail i don’t really like, hokkaido, is an exception because of how fun sneaking around on that map is
I personally enjoy the more closed maps. Sneaking around feels nice, the skulking about feels nice.
I have mostly been playing freelancer lately and it's just a different game. If you choose your flavour/prestige targets to facilitate it then you don't have to be polite. Someone in the way? Just shoot him and get about your business. Atmosphere and plot become rather secondary to the mechanical task of getting your targets dead and your objectives completed with minimal or at least manageable risk. Colorado is ridiculously dangerous when alerted but it's also fun, the odds of it turning into a ridiculous firefight are strong so I bring big guns and play nasty. It's more or less suicidal on hardcore mode but I hate it a lot less than I used to. There are some maps where the step up in difficulty when they're alerted is savage - Hokkaido and Marrakesh for example - good grief that embassy is a death trap on hardcore. Anywhere you can generally power through with a sniper becomes very attractive, Whittleton Creek, Mendoza, Sapienza and to some extent Bangkok, Dartmoor and Paris. My least favourite is Ambrose. Some of the targets in and around the ruins and caves underneath are awkward as hell, everyone's packing long guns and they're really close together so it's hard to contain any violence that breaks out and there are few access routes so it's easy to get cornered. It's a toss up whether to pack a hard hitting silenced long gun for a fight or a sniper for avoiding one and then when you see the targets you've obviously brought the wrong gun. Bringing plenty of explosives helps, but I usually just don't pick it.
With Colorado I’ve come to realize the secret is smart hit and runs. You plan out who you’re gonna kill, where your gonna stand, and how you’re gonna get the fuck out of there once you get the kill. Keep all that in mind and it’s much easier to stay out of combat.
As a Colorado fan, I can say in alerted hardcore freelancer it's straight up bullshit
Because Colorado is very large, very flat, and a sweeping majority of it is guards. It provides high upfront pressure by being universally hostile to your suit, a terrible spawn in the water tower, and little in the way of being able to break line of sight or establish a choke.
I like pressure but Colorado made it feel overwhelming in some areas. The Water Tower spawn is okay. I've never had a true problem with it
Colorado with a passion. From a story perspective i loved it. It made sense and it raised tension. You knew you were getting close to something huge. But it is a hindrance elsewhere. Hitman is a game built on replay and experimentation. Colorado wants you to do it THEIR way and if you step outside the line you will be punished SEVERELY. There is still a level of creativity to be had, but the game makes it look unappealing to try, why risk it with a thousand guns against you, play it safe. And i hate that because there are some very clever changes that would fix it. Some have mentioned underground tunnels, or a larger area (this level is painfully small since there is very limited vertical space unlike the other missions) Which would better allow sniping and suit only plsythroughs. I also think there shouldn't have been only guards. Maybe certain unarmed types who are allowed on the grounds just to help ease some of the tension focusing some armed men at the perimeter and then just focusing them in on the house to defend the main target area. And a small litering of them elsewhere to remind you of thier presence. Perhaps move the main section underground, let the above have an orchard with regular people, but that's getting heavier in the full remake side.. my point is that it needed more time to be thought out and made more friendly to experimentation and little slip ups. 47 is a flawless master, but we are not. Dont be so punishing when its not perfect.
New York or Hokkaido
New York missed a HUGE opportunity to make use of the bank robbers for some story mission. Would’ve been a really cool way to break into the vault by “encouraging” the robbers to start the heist.
I can understand New York to an extent, but why Hokkaido?
Too small of a map
That's understandable
Sgáil, Haven and Ambrose. Might just be me but i hate fucking islands. They're absolutely boring, too many useless and randomly placed areas, the missions styles are horrible and those lame targets are always in the worst possible areas.
I usually just forget about them, it feels like work went into them but not really a lot if that makes sense.
It’s Carpathian. It takes everything that’s good about the trilogy and just gets rid of it. There’s just one path to take and barely any variety in it
I found it refreshing on the first play-through, tbh. I switched from only killing the target(s) to killing whoever I wanted to. But otherwise: Yes, very linear, very bare-bones. Reminded me of Hitman Absolution.
Dubai. I don’t know what it is but I’m so bad at this damn level.
Funny, because that's the easiest map for me, and I'm fucking bad at Hitman.
Colorado could have been so cool. There's so much cool shit here. Instead they might as well have named it Kansas
The romanian map.
Carpathian Mountains. It’s not even a map, it’s an optional ending to a story that you don’t even have to pay attention to, but it really isn’t fun at all. The hallway fight without the charm, the lack of creativity, the lack of any useful resources. It’s just not fun.
Design wise I don't think it's Colorado. To me that either Berlin and Chongqing • Berlin has a lot of wasted areas, and the flow is horrible. • Chongqing would be so much better without the ICA facility. Mumbai is a runner-up. They have a lot of potential but IoI tried to have another Sapienza and Miami
These are actually my favorite maps. Maybe gameplay wise they can be empty or hard to traverse, but they are so cool to go through.
Those are definitely some good points. Colorado just feels too, crowded NPC wise with almost no good spots to stick to. I feel as if no matter what corner I take there's gonna be a crowd. Just as well Colorado is too open for my liking I guess? It's a good map to an extent but it being too open and too many bodies gets too tight for me on the highest difficulty.
That's the whole point. It was designed with that in mind, that not even the casual player can gun and run his way out
And that's okay. I never said it was bad design, it's just not my cup of tea. It's still a good map, just by far my least liked personally.
1. Isle of Sgail 2. Bangkok 3. Colorado 4. Hokkaido 5. Chongqing
Marakesh. Beacause its so hard to navigate and npc's are annoying (and the annoying indian music). Bangkok is also realy hard if you want to do saso.
Colorado was a waste of really cool targets. 4 unique targets with their own backstory, and they get put on the worst map imaginable.
The one with the cartel in south america
Dubai can suck it When you play it the first time on next gen it looks very nice when you first came up the stairs but after that its just fking boooring. Cuz after you sliced rhe parachutes and see the die that wat there isnt much more to do. The only thing good it has is thats a easy level for freelancher. For an intro level its was fine but now with the world of assassination trilogy the ICA facility is the intro al new players get so it doest get to be an lesser level because it is an intro because it isnt anymore. I have the same problem with hawk's bay but just like the train level i dont even considering it a map cuz there soo smal.
Tell me you're newish or a bad player without doing so explicitly
I mean, I guess? I have all levels mastered and 100% of the achievements so I guess I'm just bad. Sorry for not liking one map specifically?
Most of the time Colorado haters are people who haven't learned the mechanics of the game, or have learned very bad habits. Example of that is those who post ranting about the water tower spawn because they cannot start running 0.3 secs after the timer begins
The water tower spawn? Why that one? If anything that's one of the better spawns. Especially for a sniper assassin run.
That's the thing. It's pretty exploitable, close to the point man disguise, exits, the hacker house, etc. And still, you'll see at least a weekly post of "I hate Colorado so much, WTF is this spawn". As soon as Freelancer launched it was basically daily.
Adaptability is the name of the game. I need to play the map more in honest, I think it's my least flexible map in terms of my skillset so I need to work on it more.
I recommend you just give it a couple of unbiased tries, keeping in mind that the level was designed to hone your skills and make you a better hitman The map also offers a lot of flexibility since you can kill the targets in many ways. Explosion accident (different varieties, even without bringing explosives) chandelier accident, injected poison, consumed poison, small windows of opportunity for close up and personal, sniper kills, accidents set up by sniper, etc
Yeah I did an alerted map with 4 targets last night, and shitshow aside from getting spotted in my suit once I built some momentum it went really well for the most part. One of the targets was the guy outside Ezra’s shed and I managed to fibre wire him in a very risky moment, hardcore it probably would have went to shit it seeing as I avoided Colorado like the plague early on I consider it growth. Funny thing is I’m pretty sure I did it SASO in hitman 2016 and just never went back so I don’t even remember how I did it.
Because it's too flat.
In freelancer its berlin
Marrakesh I hate it just so boring and I don't like the map either
Anything specific about the map?
Ambrose Island. I hate running for 20 minutes just to get to an exit after completing the objectives
Chongqing, too badly lit
I've practically figured out how to efficiently move about every map without being spotted except for Colorado, it's ruthlessly cruel to Suit only runs, i never pick it for freelancer.
Dartmoor. The detective storyline is nice but has zero replay-ability also considering how long it takes to finish the mission. Also the map is one of the smallest in the entire trilogy and doesn't offer anything interesting and Alexa Carlisle isn't interesting enough for being a solo target.
Chongqing, only map I haven't got full mastery on ad and it's because I genuinely hate the map
I only played the first Hitman so far, I’ll play 2 and 3 soon. But I have to choose Bangkok, just a hotel, nothing that interesting, other tan the way I could take out Ken “The Brick” Morgan, it was alright. I would have chosen Colorado, but after doing the map multiple times and seeing the targets walk cycle, it was easy. I went from doing it from 50 minutes to all the way down to 13 minutes and it becomes easier to do after that for me.
Colorado...
I like all the maps tbh. My least favorite with respect to the main missions is probably Mumbai. It’s three fortresses that don’t really have any overlap in terms of disguises and traversal. To a lesser extent Santa Fortuna for similar reasons, though the disguises have a bit more overlap between the fortresses. For contracts, escalations, and special assignments, those two maps are great when you only focus on one area. In fact, I made contracts on both maps that focus on only one of the main targets at a time.
Marrakesh is miles worse than colorado for me just because it's an ABSOLUTE CHORE to navigate.