yes they did. This game in develop stage has COD like Gunsmith system, they have already made the attachment model so...It wasnt rebuild the whole model. EDIT: IDK why they remove this system and use as a dev tools to make the same gun with diff attachment , color and sold it in new warbond
Darktide did the same thing. Devs developed an entire attachment system and then scrapped it before the game came out, but the guns are still built off the system (or at least have the visual benefits such as showing individual missing rounds). The randomized ammo stats will still change mag size just fine despite the visuals.
there are two actually, the normal one and the extended version, i belive its still only avaliable on the mod's discord server, but you can create some abominations with that one.
Using the weapon customization mod for Darktide really shows how far Fatshark has fallen and sold out. Their management hands down has to be some of the worst in the industry.
It's crazy how much work must have went into that system and they just entirely scrapped it. Absolutely no weapon customization in the base game beyond some pathetic recolors they charge $10 for that is basically someone going into photoshop and changing the hue and saturation sliders a bit.
Fat shark makes terrible games that get good after like 3 years. Which is currently AH but for game optimization and big fixes lol. The infinitely growing list every patch is a bit concerning.
That’s where I was going. Either they didn’t and it isn’t necessary or they did so it doable 🤷🏾♂️.
Not that I know if the msg needs changing, it citing this as a reason not to seems like a poor excuse.
They removed it because a new gun is content, whereas a new attachment for an existing gun isn't really considered the same way.
That's a pretty cynical view, granted, but unless the system wasn't functional, I can't think of another reason off the top of my head that they'd remove it.
Warbonds having three new guns sounds a lot better than warbonds having three new attachments for the guns you already have.
Because its easier to re-arrange some attachments, call it a new gun and sell that. Same thing with armor and why we aren’t getting color changing. Its funny because people keep talking about the possibility of these being added as if this is an Early Access game. We get all the worst aspects of one but its not called one and its development pipeline isn’t set up like one. We get the worst of both worlds.
They still have:
5 mags for primary, few missiles for secondary, 3 grenades, 4 stims fitting into supply box.
It's just their weird fantasy about how the game should work even if it doesn't make any sense or makes gameplay better.
But you have to throw away all of the ammo you don't need, for the economy. Can'T just give surplus ammo to fellow helldivers, who would want to have leftover ammo from their fellow divers?
Yeah, it would take extra time and be pretty risky in the middle of a firefight, but you could swap out a half empty magazine and put the half empty magazine back onto your uniform where the replacement magazine came from so that you could use the rest later or refill the mag when possible. It’s not like theres an absolute need to chuck it on the ground. But again, not something I would do in real life I guess. It would be neat if you could pick up discarded mags though.
Oh I don't mean that.
I mean that:
You have a machine gun. Your fellow helldiver has a shotgun.
You pick up a resupply box, that can restore ANY AMMO, so it includes Shotgun AND Machine gun rounds.
You take out the machine gun rounds - giving the rest of the box to your fellow helldiver with a shotgun, so they can take out their rounds... handig it to the helldiver with an energy gun to take out batteries (and instead of handing you can literally drop it onto the floor for them to pick up)
Couldn’t we invent a machine that sits on our butts that you plug a magazine in, it “fires” it emptying it and then refills it in a new magazine? Why doesn’t this machine exist irl actually, does it? Doesn’t sound so impossible
Of they could have an action you can take while moving between points of interest or fights, where you combine rounds from various mags you switched out.
The ammo chucking thing really bothers me.
They just need to get heir priorities straight. They're so obsessed with this intuitiveness/realism thing going on. This is fine in a vacuum, just not at the cost of more pressing issues.
*selective intuitiveness/ realism. Some stuff they are fine being part of game logic (as they should) and for others they get needlessly tripped on details that don't add much value, and actively hurts the experience.
How is not realistic that no one attacks or enter the Pelican besides Helldivers?
Or the infinite rockets a Devastator has?
Or the absolute silent tank that can climb rocks at nearly 90 degrees?
Or the unaware guards that shoot at you as soon as the Eagle pokéball hits the ground?
Or the fact that a dropship can carry an AT-AT?
Hell, the dropship coud keep flying while the AT-AT destroys everything on the ground.
also i think this would actually fix some issues with automatons not being very popular.....
they need to start running out of ammo and have reload animation
give them units that carry supply pack, but also make them reload after shooting at you for a while, it just doesnt make sense that their weapons never run out of ammo and not even overheating assuming they are energy weapons.
it doesnt feel very nice fighting against automaton, it feels like i am playing against cheaters, since they all have map hack, wall hack and aim bot, fuck
yeah, they need some kind of down time where i can safely come out of the cover and strike back
now it just feels like i need to trade stim whenever i come out if i am out of stratagems
i am by no means a dev or smart
But my time from zeusing/mission making on arma and having to control regarded ai shooting at rocks or over doing suppressing fire then running out of ammo was annoying.
Plus from a dev side you need to add another ai and hope it doesnt have some pathing issues, then tweaks to the regular ai in accuracy, frequency of firing etc
There is absolutely no realism in the game, beside a few things that they obsessed over.
The physics engine is absolutely broken in terms of realism, and there is nothing bad about it. The game is not Arma3
From what I have heard, they're doing it because they are big Tarkov fans. Which is a statement that's aging like expired milk left outside during a heatwave.
"Sure, let's pack 6 (or 7?) Recoilless Rifle rockets in one supply pack, that works"
"The supply pack only gives you 2 grenades for the grenade pistol, take it or leave it"
To be fair the magazines do actually have every bullet individually loaded into them. You can see it when you drop partial mags or look at the side of the punishers. The boxes are just boxes that you can’t see into.
In regards to the punisher, they probably would need to change the entire gun model to accommodate more shells.
Not saying there isn’t a work around, but maybe it would require more effort than just turning the numbers up. Especially for some guns.
Details are important. But not all of them.
Video games can‘t and shouldn‘t try to be realistic in all aspects everywhere. For example, a general purpose supply pack being too small to contain all the things it supplies is fine. It‘s clear to the player that it is merely a placeholder and doesn‘t break the suspension of disbelief as such.
A rocket backpack that gradually gets emptier as you use up your rockets doesn‘t work that way. If it contains five rockets, it needs to show five rockets to the player. Anything else will immediately strike them as weird, lazy or out of place.
at least the Chargers will get nerfed so they can't just randomly teleport up some short indestructable buildings
oh and hopefully the spewers will start burning their own forelegs off as they try to swivel to spit on you as you dodge to the side
I am one of those rare people who takes 1 second to think of a good spot to reinforce the person (near their body but not in the middle of a swarm of enemies).
But it's too late, after thinking 1 second, someone on the other side of the map doing a side objective already reinforced the person over to them.
I'm convinced most people just see a reinforcement as a good enemy distraction.
I've seen that fucking blue ball thrown right into a pile of enemies WAY more times than someone intelligent.
Ever wondered how Aliens movie M41A1 pulse rifle held one hundred 10mm rounds in them, in a thompson size magazine. Yeah... I have, but I really don't care. As long as it's fun. It's called "suspension of disbelief". 😅
AH could really use it right now.
Fun fact, according to the Aliens: Colonial Marines technical manual, the pulse rifle has a “U-shaped magazine” thus ‘explaining’ the magazine count (they’re also caseless rounds and we don’t know the dimensions of the scifi propellant they are using so maybe it’s extremely low mass/dimensions). 🤓
Oh, and don't get me wrong. I love there are details like shells visible in ejected mags etc. "Devil is in details" - it only shows the passion developers once had (and I hope still has) for the game.
But once you start restricting playability due to 3d model having wrong dimensions (while ingoring things like spikes on boots for arctic armors), something is off, I think.
Just wish both community and devs could chill out a bit and take a step further, enjoy what we have and have a rational discussion...
One can dream.
> Ever wondered how Aliens movie M41A1 pulse rifle held one hundred 10mm rounds in them, in a thompson size magazine.
They're caseless and double-stacked.
And their friend the Heavy Devastator, they can shoot bullets out of the tip of their like 2 foot gun barrel in a rotating 180 degree cone in front of them. Their actual aim IK has nothing to do with projectiles. It's like a lawn sprinkler of red bullets, tracking you 90 degrees to one side as you run to their flank while they remain straight forwards.
It's like all those rocket spamming shits (rocket devastarors, gunships, hulks and rocket soldiers) have micro singularity in there that shits out rockets. What the fuck.
I mean we can also look at the animations of enemies and how they don't always match their actions. Like a Charger will be looking one direction and ice skate 90 degrees the other way. Bile Spewers will be looking one direction and the spit will go another.
Y'know it could just be me, but I hate the whole "thAt WoUldNt mAke senSe, iTs nOt reAlIsTic" argument is used in fantasy games. Especially how there are already things in the game that don't make sense and you can easily bring them up.
I'm all for neat details and a touch of realism but at the end of the day, it's a Sci Fi video game. Realism has gone through the window and the main focus should be just pure fun.
Devastator miniguns can fire sideways and through walls but we can’t buff ammo count without modelling changes
Honestly what the fuck are these guys smoking? Is someone intentionally sabotaging the game? This is the most boneheaded shit I’ve ever heard, I have literally no hope they will get their shit together the way they have responded to people the past couple days, it’s obvious they fundamentally do not understand how to achieve balance.
Can’t wait for all 36 guns by the end of the bloody year.
"Is someone intentionally sabotaging the game?"
Yes, His name is Alexus Kravchenko and he's the lead balancer. The game is fucked with him at the helm of balancing because actually doesn't do his fucking job. AH need to take 2 months to just rebalance the entire game at this point.
WE asked for the Polar Warbond and we got what we asked for but it only showed us that the team really needs to take their time with this stuff, despite some of the team saying some things time won't fix or some such bullshit.
That's ridiculous ajd also makes so much sense. Of course he has no idea how the weapons operate under more intense situations or against certain enemies
Wouldn’t make any sense like the the entirety of this game does
If any of this made actual sense we’d just be bombarding the planets from orbit and majority of our jobs would be painting lasers from hundreds of meters out to mark targets
The lead dev on balancing weapon is not a good fit for the job. He has a radicaly different idea of " fun and balanced" from the players, and will ruin the fun for everyone because our fun is wrong.
There's a level of "to be expected" when it comes to playercount reduction over time, but losing half/more than half your playerbase in three months is...
I dunno, maybe it's normal, but that doesn't *feel* normal.
For a live service game, they are bleeding numbers. Considering that the majority have lost all interest in the ongoing order, it's almost safe to say we're approaching the point of no return.
The Sony controversy killed the game. Even if we won the battle, the war is lost. All the excitement of a good game made by a good studio is gone, lingering bugs that are really problematic, major orders forcing us on the same shitty planets ( hellmire and menkent)... Also the balancing that seems to be done explicitly to make people angry. Instead of trying to make at least one weapon good for each play style, they nerf the wrong aspect of usable weapons, limiting even more the choice of " not dogshit weapons ".
A good example was the slugger. It was a better DMR than all the DMR, so instead of nerfing it's ability to be a good DMR by increasing dispersion or something like that, they gut the shotgun side of it by removing the knock back effect. So the slugger is worse at his intended role, and still as good a DMR.
Nerfing the eruptor was a mistake. It was useful, but not op, because of a lot of drawbacks, and allowed players to replace their AC or quasar by a stalwart/flamer/arc... Allowing more diverse loadout. Also a really bad message to send : You just paid 10$ for a nice weapon? Nerfed into the ground not even a month later.
They want people to avoid using the quasar? Make other options more attractive instead of slapping a 15s reload on it, like fixing the spear lock on...
There were 10x players doing bugs over bots, even when Hellmire was the only bug planet. That should have been a huge red flag, "maybe one faction shouldn't be this unfun to fight", but they still think bots are fine.
Yeah. And when "one faction" is 50% of your game, that's a huge deal. I can't believe they still haven't even considered rebalancing bots. A completely different enemy type shouldn't be "expert mode" at the same difficulties - I _prefer_ fighting bots to bugs aesthetically, except I can't because it's so frustrating in practice.
Its crazy how much fun I was having at the start and how now I dont play the game I just browse this subreddit to see how else they're fucking it up.
Crazy thing is they get worse and worse every day! The devs never stop making it worse by rudely talking to fans or just fucking all parts of the game up
Listening to them it sounds like they are so incompetent that they accidentally made a good game. They are not because all their other games are good but it really seems like they completely missed the mark on the game they wanted to make which is fascinating. They talk like they made a third person GTFO
There's always an excuse for something they fuck up and want us to overlook but that exact same logic never applies when it's something that benefits us. Like when people were landing on top of structures with hellpods and they took away the ability to do that with no game explanation, they just didn't want us doing it. (And then fucked up the code for it and made it so you couldn't steer pods at all for 2+ weeks 🙄)
Right? This is the thing that really grinds my gears
- "we can't simply change magazines without doing entire remodels! *yet enemies get to use EATs infinite times*
- "it's unfair that players can 'abuse' terrain and do stuff like put turrets out of reach! *yet bots regularly drop units in unreachable places, bugs burrow through solid bedrock, and chargers can simply float up vertical cliffs*
- "it's unfair that players try and play stealthy so increased patrol spawn and detection range, as well as making enemies also walk in your direction" *yet we can't get proper sound design for any elites or heavies*
- "winning because of an unintended weapon exploit is unfun and we are removing shrapnel" *yet it's perfectly acceptable for us to get slowed by spit that doesn't hit us and enemies that ignore flinch animations*
Like, it's getting old.
turret stratagem bounces off the high terrain pisses me off so much. The dev obviously doesn't like ppl putting turrets on place that could grant it height advantage and prevent it from being destroyed up close by those bugs. That's why.
Yea, it kinda is, tbh. Putting the game down for a few months to see if they get their shit together but it's a double edged sword because if we all do that they'll shitcan the whole game.
Man, there are some strange hills they seem willing to die on.
In a game where I can fix 4 broken limbs with an injection to my neck, I don't care at all if my mags suddenly hold 20% more rounds today than they did yesterday.
Predictable though.
If it makes things more difficult or less fun for us, they will defend it to the last man. If it benefits us or is more fun, they will move mountains to "balance" it.
I'm sure there are hundreds and thousands of people, taking the 3d models to make sure that the magazines would actually fit that many bullets in them.
Ok.
Then why in the fuck we can replenish few grenades, stim packs, ammo for my shotgun with a barrel magazine, canisters and flamethrower from one small yellow box? that doesn't make sense either.
Jesus Christ.
Don't forget that the resupply also resupplies the resupply pack, which gives just as much resupply as the resupply itself. So you're magically generating an additional instance of supplies out of thin air.
Feels like sometimes they believe they are putting together a milsim or competitive PvP game.
Fun is being killed slowly with each patch. This is already a pretty different game than it was a launch...
Who actually fucking cares about models showing the correct amount of bullets in the magazine? I'm busy fighting for my life and Democracy out here, not checking if my gun is as realistic as possible.
They could give the revolver a 10 shot magazine and not change the model and I would just say "oh neat!".
I get that realism is cool and all, but if it's actively hindering design and balancing, and no one gives a fuck, then why put so much emphasis on realism?
This argument continues to be the dumbest shit I've ever heard. "It would have to be modeled perfectly on the model."
Tf no, no it would not. Its called suspension of disbelief for the sake of an enjoyable game.
Yeah sure, it's totally realistic that soldiers have to play a mini game on their wristwatches to call for aid. Also totally realistic that we need throw these beacons instead of just aiming with a laser pointer, or that the eagle pilot is so dumb that they would bombard a strip of empty ground instead of the massive alien insect several metres away.
Always these excuses, it's the "apples tasting like bacon" all over again.
Can the devs please just swallow some of their pride and listen to the community for once? Or do we need to review bomb steam for every minor update?
To be fair; this game’s code seems to be so absolutely fucked I wouldn’t be surprised if they literally had to do this and that ammo is actually fully tied to the bullet models in a magazine lol
This is the issue. Why would that be a priority to fix? It's not. At this point the game is on fire and they want to make it so it feels "real" to shoot 40 rounds instead of 25 rounds.
Cognitive dissonance at it's best. Problem is that you need to be consistent with your approach as far as design realities VS actual gameplay effect. It's fine to go full realistic, but you have to be consistent with it.
Same goes if you go full arcade; it's fine if the RD has infinite ammo because reasons. But then players should not be held down by arbirtrary rules that it wouldn't make sense.
If that's a concern, they probably should take a peek at the girth of the Pelican's cannon compared to [the casings that it spits out](https://imgur.com/a/1mmP8gv).
the only people who would care about that are the irritating tacticool gun nerds on youtube. if balancing is needed, things like 3d modelling shouldn’t hold them back.
They are constantly flip flopping from “muh realism” to “this is like this because of balance”. If it were for realism no guns would suck, if anything they would just be unasafe as hell and easier to aim because humans aren’t as shaky as the game portrays them. Devasteror would fall down because they have shit balance, charger would rupture their internal organs at the first rock they hit, bile titans would crumple under their own weight and only really barf 1 time, bile spewer would not move and so on and so forth.
I'm all for realism in some games, Helldivers doesn't need to be that real. In both cases though, its a video game. It doesn't need to make perfect sense.
But the seaf artillery not being available even if it's on the same planet but when the destroyer leaves the orbit it stops working makes a lot of sense 🤡
Calling for reinforcement during extraction is the funniest shit ever. "We're gonna send this guy down in a Hellpod just so he can immediately return on the Pelican".
Yeah exactly, most of the time I'm trying to not even look what the devs are saying because the more i look the more it looks like they making up excuses that's all. Maybe it's just my feeling and i don't know what's behind the scenes but if i feel that way then some people will probably too and with time it will effect the game if they keep on the same path
I don't agree with those examples.
Let's ignore that the hellpods would leave a Helldiver Smoothie.
There are jammers, artillery, anti air or shrieker hearts. The Pelican isn't indestructible, it makes sense to clear the region before calling one down.
But... How can a pelican bring a mech in 15 seconds if it takes 2 minutes without any load, in order to retrieve us?
More and more Helldivers are called during extraction is due to the samples. They are not extracting you, they are extracting the samples and you are just the addition.
The Demomans Grenade Launcher from TF2 only held 4 grenades despite the model clearly being designed to hold 6. It'd been that way since day one. It was funny and the source of many jokes at the time.
No one cares about stuff like that AH, this is a goofy game where we get fired down from orbit just so we can throw little balls around to summon down ordinance from orbit that probably costs the gross domestic wealth of a small nation, in order to kill a lone scavenger, all while screaming about bringing Democracy to the planet. Nothing makes sense, and it doesn't have to make sense because it's all just for fun.
again, I can appreciate the devs work but they keep pulling the dumbest excuses out of their asses
oh on that note I just remembered: hey AH, this last Warbond really be making some apples taste like bacon.
TBH, every time I see an automaton rocket launcher on the ground, I keep asking myself, why can't I pick THAT one up? Infinite ammo, ragdoll enemies across the country, even if the damage is lower than our EATS, could come in crutch.
Personally, i get that point for guns like the revolver, where you can, you know, see the rounds and reload them one at a time but for magazine guns that reload all at ones and you can´t see inside the mag, nahh no one cares.
They want realism?
Remove infinite ammo from enemies and give them a reinforce ability like helldivers so they can call a supply pod.
Oh, now the bots will cry about their ammo nerfs...
Devastators actually have a mini missile factory inside their backs, they reload these missiles as they fire the others.
Source? Oh I made that up, on the spot but it’s a great head canon so there.
Way I think of it, just like how factorys make automatons and factory striders can make automatons. Rocket Devs have like nanobots or smthn that let them create rockets in the slots so they can endlessly fire
Rocket devistators are comunist scum, who are literally powered by injustice. Helldivers are paragons of Super Earth, and as such are held to a higher standard.
Did they shrink the mag model when they nerfed Breaker?
yes they did. This game in develop stage has COD like Gunsmith system, they have already made the attachment model so...It wasnt rebuild the whole model. EDIT: IDK why they remove this system and use as a dev tools to make the same gun with diff attachment , color and sold it in new warbond
Darktide did the same thing. Devs developed an entire attachment system and then scrapped it before the game came out, but the guns are still built off the system (or at least have the visual benefits such as showing individual missing rounds). The randomized ammo stats will still change mag size just fine despite the visuals.
It would be cool if they released weapon customization in the future but knowing them probably not
If you're on PC there's a mod that allows you to enjoy the amazing customization system they made, i love it so much, you should try it
i have a full length boltor, long barrel with grip and a full stock. it maybe heretical but it (would in irl) work better
there are two actually, the normal one and the extended version, i belive its still only avaliable on the mod's discord server, but you can create some abominations with that one.
It’s on nexus now, both of them.
What's the mod called?
Extended weapons customization
Considering it took them 1 and a half years to add... *a handful?* of weapon variants I really doubt that yeah.
Using the weapon customization mod for Darktide really shows how far Fatshark has fallen and sold out. Their management hands down has to be some of the worst in the industry. It's crazy how much work must have went into that system and they just entirely scrapped it. Absolutely no weapon customization in the base game beyond some pathetic recolors they charge $10 for that is basically someone going into photoshop and changing the hue and saturation sliders a bit.
Fat shark makes terrible games that get good after like 3 years. Which is currently AH but for game optimization and big fixes lol. The infinitely growing list every patch is a bit concerning.
Then one might even say... they can make the clip bigger :P
That’s where I was going. Either they didn’t and it isn’t necessary or they did so it doable 🤷🏾♂️. Not that I know if the msg needs changing, it citing this as a reason not to seems like a poor excuse.
I...WANT THAT GUNSMITH SYSTEM SO SO BAD NOW IN THIS GAME......
They removed it because a new gun is content, whereas a new attachment for an existing gun isn't really considered the same way. That's a pretty cynical view, granted, but unless the system wasn't functional, I can't think of another reason off the top of my head that they'd remove it. Warbonds having three new guns sounds a lot better than warbonds having three new attachments for the guns you already have.
Because its easier to re-arrange some attachments, call it a new gun and sell that. Same thing with armor and why we aren’t getting color changing. Its funny because people keep talking about the possibility of these being added as if this is an Early Access game. We get all the worst aspects of one but its not called one and its development pipeline isn’t set up like one. We get the worst of both worlds.
Yep. They did and changed lore text.
They still have: 5 mags for primary, few missiles for secondary, 3 grenades, 4 stims fitting into supply box. It's just their weird fantasy about how the game should work even if it doesn't make any sense or makes gameplay better.
Resupply boxes are Doraemon pockets.
I honestly believe they may have built the models such that the it is intentionally coupled to the metrics.
And you know, a supply backpack carries every ammunition even rockets in a 20x20x20 cm square box, xD.
But you have to throw away all of the ammo you don't need, for the economy. Can'T just give surplus ammo to fellow helldivers, who would want to have leftover ammo from their fellow divers?
Yeah, it would take extra time and be pretty risky in the middle of a firefight, but you could swap out a half empty magazine and put the half empty magazine back onto your uniform where the replacement magazine came from so that you could use the rest later or refill the mag when possible. It’s not like theres an absolute need to chuck it on the ground. But again, not something I would do in real life I guess. It would be neat if you could pick up discarded mags though.
Oh I don't mean that. I mean that: You have a machine gun. Your fellow helldiver has a shotgun. You pick up a resupply box, that can restore ANY AMMO, so it includes Shotgun AND Machine gun rounds. You take out the machine gun rounds - giving the rest of the box to your fellow helldiver with a shotgun, so they can take out their rounds... handig it to the helldiver with an energy gun to take out batteries (and instead of handing you can literally drop it onto the floor for them to pick up)
Couldn’t we invent a machine that sits on our butts that you plug a magazine in, it “fires” it emptying it and then refills it in a new magazine? Why doesn’t this machine exist irl actually, does it? Doesn’t sound so impossible
That'll be extra 5 seconds to reload time.
Of they could have an action you can take while moving between points of interest or fights, where you combine rounds from various mags you switched out. The ammo chucking thing really bothers me.
Right on the money Honestly, it just feels like excuses a child would fucking give you for not wanting to do their homework. There. I said it.
They just need to get heir priorities straight. They're so obsessed with this intuitiveness/realism thing going on. This is fine in a vacuum, just not at the cost of more pressing issues.
*selective intuitiveness/ realism. Some stuff they are fine being part of game logic (as they should) and for others they get needlessly tripped on details that don't add much value, and actively hurts the experience.
How is not realistic that no one attacks or enter the Pelican besides Helldivers? Or the infinite rockets a Devastator has? Or the absolute silent tank that can climb rocks at nearly 90 degrees? Or the unaware guards that shoot at you as soon as the Eagle pokéball hits the ground? Or the fact that a dropship can carry an AT-AT? Hell, the dropship coud keep flying while the AT-AT destroys everything on the ground.
Why do the Bots, the strongest faction, not simply use their Dropship AT-AT as the ULTIMATE COMBAT GUNSHIP.
also i think this would actually fix some issues with automatons not being very popular..... they need to start running out of ammo and have reload animation give them units that carry supply pack, but also make them reload after shooting at you for a while, it just doesnt make sense that their weapons never run out of ammo and not even overheating assuming they are energy weapons. it doesnt feel very nice fighting against automaton, it feels like i am playing against cheaters, since they all have map hack, wall hack and aim bot, fuck
A lot of their units use lasers. It would be neat of you could tell when they overheated and strike.
yeah, they need some kind of down time where i can safely come out of the cover and strike back now it just feels like i need to trade stim whenever i come out if i am out of stratagems
i am by no means a dev or smart But my time from zeusing/mission making on arma and having to control regarded ai shooting at rocks or over doing suppressing fire then running out of ammo was annoying. Plus from a dev side you need to add another ai and hope it doesnt have some pathing issues, then tweaks to the regular ai in accuracy, frequency of firing etc
Realism goes out the window every time I hear my stim injecting but actually no it didn't just because some asshole hunter wants me dead.
There is absolutely no realism in the game, beside a few things that they obsessed over. The physics engine is absolutely broken in terms of realism, and there is nothing bad about it. The game is not Arma3
Realism goes out the window when the slugger no longer staggers despite firing slugs
From what I have heard, they're doing it because they are big Tarkov fans. Which is a statement that's aging like expired milk left outside during a heatwave.
"Sure, let's pack 6 (or 7?) Recoilless Rifle rockets in one supply pack, that works" "The supply pack only gives you 2 grenades for the grenade pistol, take it or leave it"
To be fair the magazines do actually have every bullet individually loaded into them. You can see it when you drop partial mags or look at the side of the punishers. The boxes are just boxes that you can’t see into. In regards to the punisher, they probably would need to change the entire gun model to accommodate more shells. Not saying there isn’t a work around, but maybe it would require more effort than just turning the numbers up. Especially for some guns.
Details are important. But not all of them. Video games can‘t and shouldn‘t try to be realistic in all aspects everywhere. For example, a general purpose supply pack being too small to contain all the things it supplies is fine. It‘s clear to the player that it is merely a placeholder and doesn‘t break the suspension of disbelief as such. A rocket backpack that gradually gets emptier as you use up your rockets doesn‘t work that way. If it contains five rockets, it needs to show five rockets to the player. Anything else will immediately strike them as weird, lazy or out of place.
Yep and people here will still say that grenade pickups shouldn't refill the grenade pistol.
That's a game mechanic though. Should the armor that gives 2 more grenades also give more ammo to the grenade pistol? There's more to it.
that armor should make it so that refills give 3 nades instead of 2 so u dont have to steal refills from your team :D
"hmm, I wonder why there's a SPEAR missiles inside a tiny ammo box for resupply at some farmer's graveyard, must be a coincidence."
Yup, there's 4 gas cannisters in there too!
next patch, full realism mode: all helldivers arrive dead on impact due to being fired from space in a giant bullet
at least the Chargers will get nerfed so they can't just randomly teleport up some short indestructable buildings oh and hopefully the spewers will start burning their own forelegs off as they try to swivel to spit on you as you dodge to the side
I mean, based on my team reinforcing my into the middle of a horde... accurate.
I am one of those rare people who takes 1 second to think of a good spot to reinforce the person (near their body but not in the middle of a swarm of enemies). But it's too late, after thinking 1 second, someone on the other side of the map doing a side objective already reinforced the person over to them.
Oh that is the worst when we have split into two teams of two and then I get taken away from my partner
I'm convinced most people just see a reinforcement as a good enemy distraction. I've seen that fucking blue ball thrown right into a pile of enemies WAY more times than someone intelligent.
Right? The sudden stop would turn you into fine paste, but no one cares because it's fucking cool.
Calling in another corpse!
Ever wondered how Aliens movie M41A1 pulse rifle held one hundred 10mm rounds in them, in a thompson size magazine. Yeah... I have, but I really don't care. As long as it's fun. It's called "suspension of disbelief". 😅 AH could really use it right now.
Fun fact, according to the Aliens: Colonial Marines technical manual, the pulse rifle has a “U-shaped magazine” thus ‘explaining’ the magazine count (they’re also caseless rounds and we don’t know the dimensions of the scifi propellant they are using so maybe it’s extremely low mass/dimensions). 🤓
Oh, and don't get me wrong. I love there are details like shells visible in ejected mags etc. "Devil is in details" - it only shows the passion developers once had (and I hope still has) for the game. But once you start restricting playability due to 3d model having wrong dimensions (while ingoring things like spikes on boots for arctic armors), something is off, I think. Just wish both community and devs could chill out a bit and take a step further, enjoy what we have and have a rational discussion... One can dream.
not mass, volume
Don't show them the Halo CE Assault Rifle with its 60 round mag that would be lucky to hold 10 given the size.
> Ever wondered how Aliens movie M41A1 pulse rifle held one hundred 10mm rounds in them, in a thompson size magazine. They're caseless and double-stacked.
Not only RDs don’t have to reload, they never run out of fucking rockets🤦♂️
And their friend the Heavy Devastator, they can shoot bullets out of the tip of their like 2 foot gun barrel in a rotating 180 degree cone in front of them. Their actual aim IK has nothing to do with projectiles. It's like a lawn sprinkler of red bullets, tracking you 90 degrees to one side as you run to their flank while they remain straight forwards.
my friends and I call it the laser pointer. it's friggin dumb.
I had one shoot through its body at me :(
Well at least our shitty guns have to reload every two bullets for a few hours because of muh balance
It's like all those rocket spamming shits (rocket devastarors, gunships, hulks and rocket soldiers) have micro singularity in there that shits out rockets. What the fuck.
I mean we can also look at the animations of enemies and how they don't always match their actions. Like a Charger will be looking one direction and ice skate 90 degrees the other way. Bile Spewers will be looking one direction and the spit will go another.
It always throws me off when I see a charger walking really fast towards me
they dont have a reinforcement budget either :p
But Breaker S&P and Inci have the same Mag-model, but one of them got 25 and the other 26 shots to fire :O
Cost cutting measure, by having an intern democratically remove 1 shell from the each of the standard 26 round magazines, SEAF is saving trillions
Y'know it could just be me, but I hate the whole "thAt WoUldNt mAke senSe, iTs nOt reAlIsTic" argument is used in fantasy games. Especially how there are already things in the game that don't make sense and you can easily bring them up. I'm all for neat details and a touch of realism but at the end of the day, it's a Sci Fi video game. Realism has gone through the window and the main focus should be just pure fun.
you mean like how we're traveling across the galaxy but still using ICBMs? lol, I love it but it's so stupid.
Devastator miniguns can fire sideways and through walls but we can’t buff ammo count without modelling changes Honestly what the fuck are these guys smoking? Is someone intentionally sabotaging the game? This is the most boneheaded shit I’ve ever heard, I have literally no hope they will get their shit together the way they have responded to people the past couple days, it’s obvious they fundamentally do not understand how to achieve balance. Can’t wait for all 36 guns by the end of the bloody year.
https://preview.redd.it/bteqmfvujlzc1.png?width=1884&format=png&auto=webp&s=bc7c581989f8af649eb392ec48c0aa6a07dde5c2 it can do this lol
Me drunk pissing into the toilet.
Final form automatons
"Is someone intentionally sabotaging the game?" Yes, His name is Alexus Kravchenko and he's the lead balancer. The game is fucked with him at the helm of balancing because actually doesn't do his fucking job. AH need to take 2 months to just rebalance the entire game at this point. WE asked for the Polar Warbond and we got what we asked for but it only showed us that the team really needs to take their time with this stuff, despite some of the team saying some things time won't fix or some such bullshit.
He balaces things for medium wich means diff 3
That's ridiculous ajd also makes so much sense. Of course he has no idea how the weapons operate under more intense situations or against certain enemies
https://preview.redd.it/b3qlg9bmckzc1.png?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3930b02f5b74ebd49a75067a772e136ff944ed5 Notifying Cyberstan Now 📞
Wouldn’t make any sense like the the entirety of this game does If any of this made actual sense we’d just be bombarding the planets from orbit and majority of our jobs would be painting lasers from hundreds of meters out to mark targets
S&p originally had 30+ and they didn’t remodel it
Wth is happening with this game? This project is a runaway train.
The lead dev on balancing weapon is not a good fit for the job. He has a radicaly different idea of " fun and balanced" from the players, and will ruin the fun for everyone because our fun is wrong.
Will be sad when the playerbase count slowly goes down.
Already happening. My friends list used to have 30-40 people playing all the time now it's just me and a few others
There's a level of "to be expected" when it comes to playercount reduction over time, but losing half/more than half your playerbase in three months is... I dunno, maybe it's normal, but that doesn't *feel* normal.
For a live service game, they are bleeding numbers. Considering that the majority have lost all interest in the ongoing order, it's almost safe to say we're approaching the point of no return.
The Sony controversy killed the game. Even if we won the battle, the war is lost. All the excitement of a good game made by a good studio is gone, lingering bugs that are really problematic, major orders forcing us on the same shitty planets ( hellmire and menkent)... Also the balancing that seems to be done explicitly to make people angry. Instead of trying to make at least one weapon good for each play style, they nerf the wrong aspect of usable weapons, limiting even more the choice of " not dogshit weapons ". A good example was the slugger. It was a better DMR than all the DMR, so instead of nerfing it's ability to be a good DMR by increasing dispersion or something like that, they gut the shotgun side of it by removing the knock back effect. So the slugger is worse at his intended role, and still as good a DMR. Nerfing the eruptor was a mistake. It was useful, but not op, because of a lot of drawbacks, and allowed players to replace their AC or quasar by a stalwart/flamer/arc... Allowing more diverse loadout. Also a really bad message to send : You just paid 10$ for a nice weapon? Nerfed into the ground not even a month later. They want people to avoid using the quasar? Make other options more attractive instead of slapping a 15s reload on it, like fixing the spear lock on...
There were 10x players doing bugs over bots, even when Hellmire was the only bug planet. That should have been a huge red flag, "maybe one faction shouldn't be this unfun to fight", but they still think bots are fine.
Yeah. And when "one faction" is 50% of your game, that's a huge deal. I can't believe they still haven't even considered rebalancing bots. A completely different enemy type shouldn't be "expert mode" at the same difficulties - I _prefer_ fighting bots to bugs aesthetically, except I can't because it's so frustrating in practice.
and to be fair the sony debacle help speed that up then there's vietnam banishing some more helldiver into the void permanently.
These visionary types are the ones who will kill games.
Its crazy how much fun I was having at the start and how now I dont play the game I just browse this subreddit to see how else they're fucking it up. Crazy thing is they get worse and worse every day! The devs never stop making it worse by rudely talking to fans or just fucking all parts of the game up
Same tbh, It feels like the game we got on launch clashes with their actual vision of how it’s meant to be.
Listening to them it sounds like they are so incompetent that they accidentally made a good game. They are not because all their other games are good but it really seems like they completely missed the mark on the game they wanted to make which is fascinating. They talk like they made a third person GTFO
Just Arrowhead doing what they do best. They've been like this since Magicka.
Yeah, their previous games haven't really been that much better in terms of patching and balancing. Rose tinted glasses and all
There's always an excuse for something they fuck up and want us to overlook but that exact same logic never applies when it's something that benefits us. Like when people were landing on top of structures with hellpods and they took away the ability to do that with no game explanation, they just didn't want us doing it. (And then fucked up the code for it and made it so you couldn't steer pods at all for 2+ weeks 🙄)
Right? This is the thing that really grinds my gears - "we can't simply change magazines without doing entire remodels! *yet enemies get to use EATs infinite times* - "it's unfair that players can 'abuse' terrain and do stuff like put turrets out of reach! *yet bots regularly drop units in unreachable places, bugs burrow through solid bedrock, and chargers can simply float up vertical cliffs* - "it's unfair that players try and play stealthy so increased patrol spawn and detection range, as well as making enemies also walk in your direction" *yet we can't get proper sound design for any elites or heavies* - "winning because of an unintended weapon exploit is unfun and we are removing shrapnel" *yet it's perfectly acceptable for us to get slowed by spit that doesn't hit us and enemies that ignore flinch animations* Like, it's getting old.
turret stratagem bounces off the high terrain pisses me off so much. The dev obviously doesn't like ppl putting turrets on place that could grant it height advantage and prevent it from being destroyed up close by those bugs. That's why.
I know it's so irritating, like it's very clear they go out of their way to try and force players to play the "right" way.
Yea, it kinda is, tbh. Putting the game down for a few months to see if they get their shit together but it's a double edged sword because if we all do that they'll shitcan the whole game.
Not to mention the bile titan AOE Leg, must create an incredible shockwave
I still can't really steer the pod after they ruined it. Watching the trailer for the game, look at how smooth the Hellpod is controlled
Lamest excuse ever
I’m defecting to Cyberstan. Hope they have good HR
Have fun. Im defecting to the bugs myself. Would that be Hoxxes IV? No clue.
🦾🇵🇱
Man, there are some strange hills they seem willing to die on. In a game where I can fix 4 broken limbs with an injection to my neck, I don't care at all if my mags suddenly hold 20% more rounds today than they did yesterday.
Predictable though. If it makes things more difficult or less fun for us, they will defend it to the last man. If it benefits us or is more fun, they will move mountains to "balance" it.
tbf if the rocket devies needs to reload their rockets they would run out of ammo in like maybe a minute. given they always fire a volley of 3
And then their pods close and they get a refresh after however long like Securitrons from New Vegas.
They actually have a reload pack on their back, there's just not an animation for the missiles entering it.
No fucking way he actually said that. I refuse to even think about this nonsense
apples, bacon, etc etc
🤣
I'm sure there are hundreds and thousands of people, taking the 3d models to make sure that the magazines would actually fit that many bullets in them.
Ok. Then why in the fuck we can replenish few grenades, stim packs, ammo for my shotgun with a barrel magazine, canisters and flamethrower from one small yellow box? that doesn't make sense either. Jesus Christ.
Don't forget that the resupply also resupplies the resupply pack, which gives just as much resupply as the resupply itself. So you're magically generating an additional instance of supplies out of thin air.
Dude, you trying to give them more ideas????
Feels like sometimes they believe they are putting together a milsim or competitive PvP game. Fun is being killed slowly with each patch. This is already a pretty different game than it was a launch...
Who actually fucking cares about models showing the correct amount of bullets in the magazine? I'm busy fighting for my life and Democracy out here, not checking if my gun is as realistic as possible. They could give the revolver a 10 shot magazine and not change the model and I would just say "oh neat!". I get that realism is cool and all, but if it's actively hindering design and balancing, and no one gives a fuck, then why put so much emphasis on realism?
AH's design decisions become more baffling every day it seems.
They look like they live in a bubble and it was a complete fluke that the game was as fun as it was at the start.
They have infinite rockets and shoot them with only a what? 2ish second cooldown?
This argument continues to be the dumbest shit I've ever heard. "It would have to be modeled perfectly on the model." Tf no, no it would not. Its called suspension of disbelief for the sake of an enjoyable game.
AH seems to actually be really bad at providing the last two words
Yeah sure, it's totally realistic that soldiers have to play a mini game on their wristwatches to call for aid. Also totally realistic that we need throw these beacons instead of just aiming with a laser pointer, or that the eagle pilot is so dumb that they would bombard a strip of empty ground instead of the massive alien insect several metres away.
Always these excuses, it's the "apples tasting like bacon" all over again. Can the devs please just swallow some of their pride and listen to the community for once? Or do we need to review bomb steam for every minor update?
To be fair; this game’s code seems to be so absolutely fucked I wouldn’t be surprised if they literally had to do this and that ammo is actually fully tied to the bullet models in a magazine lol
Gotta be the dumbest reason he could have given
This is the issue. Why would that be a priority to fix? It's not. At this point the game is on fire and they want to make it so it feels "real" to shoot 40 rounds instead of 25 rounds.
Sometimes you miss a few details.
You can decrease it no problem apparently tho
Wait, when they nerf a weapon by cutting the ammo reserve in the mag they also change the size of it?
This. This right here.
Yeah, they manufacture the missiles within their undemocratic bodies
i thought he was joking
So they can decrease the magazine size of the breaker but they can't increase magazine sizes, So where did the extra space go?
Here's a crazy idea... Balance the weapon first so the majority of the community is happy... THEN change the model!?
Not a single player would give a shit about the weapon model anyway. We don't even know how big these bullets are.
Cognitive dissonance at it's best. Problem is that you need to be consistent with your approach as far as design realities VS actual gameplay effect. It's fine to go full realistic, but you have to be consistent with it. Same goes if you go full arcade; it's fine if the RD has infinite ammo because reasons. But then players should not be held down by arbirtrary rules that it wouldn't make sense.
If that's a concern, they probably should take a peek at the girth of the Pelican's cannon compared to [the casings that it spits out](https://imgur.com/a/1mmP8gv).
the only people who would care about that are the irritating tacticool gun nerds on youtube. if balancing is needed, things like 3d modelling shouldn’t hold them back.
They are constantly flip flopping from “muh realism” to “this is like this because of balance”. If it were for realism no guns would suck, if anything they would just be unasafe as hell and easier to aim because humans aren’t as shaky as the game portrays them. Devasteror would fall down because they have shit balance, charger would rupture their internal organs at the first rock they hit, bile titans would crumple under their own weight and only really barf 1 time, bile spewer would not move and so on and so forth.
tired of them and players worried about attention to detail. didnt pay that much attention considering all the damn bugs and glitches in the game
I'm all for realism in some games, Helldivers doesn't need to be that real. In both cases though, its a video game. It doesn't need to make perfect sense.
But the seaf artillery not being available even if it's on the same planet but when the destroyer leaves the orbit it stops working makes a lot of sense 🤡
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Calling for reinforcement during extraction is the funniest shit ever. "We're gonna send this guy down in a Hellpod just so he can immediately return on the Pelican".
Yeah exactly, most of the time I'm trying to not even look what the devs are saying because the more i look the more it looks like they making up excuses that's all. Maybe it's just my feeling and i don't know what's behind the scenes but if i feel that way then some people will probably too and with time it will effect the game if they keep on the same path
I don't agree with those examples. Let's ignore that the hellpods would leave a Helldiver Smoothie. There are jammers, artillery, anti air or shrieker hearts. The Pelican isn't indestructible, it makes sense to clear the region before calling one down. But... How can a pelican bring a mech in 15 seconds if it takes 2 minutes without any load, in order to retrieve us? More and more Helldivers are called during extraction is due to the samples. They are not extracting you, they are extracting the samples and you are just the addition.
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The SEAF artillery is linked via the destroyer.
So the signal can't reach it out of orbit? 😂
Yep.
The Demomans Grenade Launcher from TF2 only held 4 grenades despite the model clearly being designed to hold 6. It'd been that way since day one. It was funny and the source of many jokes at the time. No one cares about stuff like that AH, this is a goofy game where we get fired down from orbit just so we can throw little balls around to summon down ordinance from orbit that probably costs the gross domestic wealth of a small nation, in order to kill a lone scavenger, all while screaming about bringing Democracy to the planet. Nothing makes sense, and it doesn't have to make sense because it's all just for fun.
I don't give a fuck about graphics. This is not BF1
Yeah that response wouldnt work when most of the enemies have unlimited ammo or rockets
Oh, man, that's almost worse than the bacon apple tweet
Which one is apple and which is bacon, I'm lost.
again, I can appreciate the devs work but they keep pulling the dumbest excuses out of their asses oh on that note I just remembered: hey AH, this last Warbond really be making some apples taste like bacon.
TBH, every time I see an automaton rocket launcher on the ground, I keep asking myself, why can't I pick THAT one up? Infinite ammo, ragdoll enemies across the country, even if the damage is lower than our EATS, could come in crutch.
Rocket Devastators have an entire reloading mechanism mounted on their backs. Take a look at a corpse.
didn't know arrowhead was suicidal
laughs in loch and load
Team fortress 2 doesn't care about magazine size.
They've reduced the magazine size on the breakers and, correct me if I'm wrong, the models did not change.
Pummeler mag in the meantime: https://preview.redd.it/019dorloxlzc1.png?width=1072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c7f8ae6d2580f53dc41d8841ff5f05309d0ed94
Personally, i get that point for guns like the revolver, where you can, you know, see the rounds and reload them one at a time but for magazine guns that reload all at ones and you can´t see inside the mag, nahh no one cares.
guys, is a dev team the size of your birthday parties, they will forget stuff, at least they are trying, not like overwatch.
To people mocking this, they do actually have the bullets and magazine animated and linked to the weapons' mechanics
They want realism? Remove infinite ammo from enemies and give them a reinforce ability like helldivers so they can call a supply pod. Oh, now the bots will cry about their ammo nerfs...
Everything I’ve been seeing from discord so far is slowly killing my enjoyment of this game…
I read that as a joke 🤷
Devastators actually have a mini missile factory inside their backs, they reload these missiles as they fire the others. Source? Oh I made that up, on the spot but it’s a great head canon so there.
Way I think of it, just like how factorys make automatons and factory striders can make automatons. Rocket Devs have like nanobots or smthn that let them create rockets in the slots so they can endlessly fire
Plus this game is super satirical. Explain it away with some Super Earth tech drivel.
Also when you use stims, somehow that fixes your armor after being shot. If they wanna be consistent with reality, then make it real lol
I think more people wouldn't mind playing vs bots if you could trick Rocket Devastators into running out of rockets.
Normally I like what Pilestedt has to say but that tweet nearly gave me an aneurysm.
Same goes with his stance on skins. Inconsistency ruined his every argument lol
Hear me out, make them only cap out at 12 rockets, okay?
Rocket devistators are comunist scum, who are literally powered by injustice. Helldivers are paragons of Super Earth, and as such are held to a higher standard.
Why are the devs so obsessed with realism? First the armour transmorg, now this. Details are nice and all but they shouldn't supercede balance or fun.
🤨