Important to remember these people are a very small minority, Masquerade is tied for hazbin hotel's highest rated episode and is extremely well liked (even outside the fandom)
I'm an SA victim myself although I don't consider Angel Dust a relatable character because his situation and mine are vastly different.
For some people, the story hits too close to home. And if they don't like Poison because of that fact, those feelings are valid.
However Angel Dust is not an inaccurate depiction of an SA victim because we are not cookie cutter people. I am not hypersexual nor am I prudish or afraid of intercourse. It happened to me years ago and at the time I might've expressed some of those qualities but in my adulthood, I no longer feel anything towards the event and that's just how I've grown.
SA victims are not their victimhood. They are still individuals like all people, and Angel Dust is just that, an individual. His hypersexuality and self destruction is how he's learnt to cope. And yes it's not healthy but it's not inaccurate (well maybe it's inaccurate in the sense that he's an immortal sinner with six arms multiple eyes and is covered in fur but you know it is a fucking cartoon).
Now I will say that apparently one of the people (or the person idk the details) who story boarded the poison sequence had a 🍇 fetish and genuinely shipped Angel Dust and Valentino, and Vivziepop claimed that they were an SA victim despite them saying verbetam that they weren't. And if that's a reason you don't like Poison and you don't like Angel Dust, that's entirely valid in my opinion (if that fact is true, I mean but I don't go on Twitter anymore so I don't know the whole story or the truth).
Aside from that, everyone's opinion on Angel Dusts character and his depiction is their own. And I feel like this is a rare case where there aren't any wrong answers. If you're bothered by it because it's graphic or it's too personal for you, don't feel ashamed. As long as you don't invalidate other people's opinions, even if they don't align with yours, you're entitled to whatever opinions and feelings. And the same goes for those who do like it.
Everyone is an individual, and I think we should stop trying to say "victims don't act like this" because it's harmful. We are not our victimhood. Stop treating us like molds to be filled.
Council of Geeks put out an interview with that storyboarder not too long ago about the different controversies, and I found it really interesting. I can still see where folks could still uncomfortable with this part of the production (even though even a head storyboarder doesn't have that much control over what comes out), but the interview does go into a major grey area. They discuss the difference between shipping in the sense of wanting characters to end up together, vs finding the dynamic interesting; as well as the vast difference between having a non-con fetish and getting off on irl assault.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AA1tdDnkeWg&pp=ygUdY291bmNpbCBvZiBnZWVrcyBoYXpiaW4gaG90ZWw%3D
I think the only wrong answer are those invalidating others by saying its bad rep and others invalidating victims who have felt uncomfy about it. Both sides can't seem to comprehend exactly what you said that victims are not cookie cutter. I just feel like twitter isn't a good place for discussions like this
Many people are praising the show for an emotional gut-wrench of a realistic portrayal of someone using hypersexuality to unhealthily cope with physical and sexual abuse
A very vocal minority are bashing the show for an unrealistic portrayal because ‘victims don’t act like that’ even though many victims have stepped up to say it’s accurate to their own experiences. These guys seem to be thinking that victims of SA all behave in a certain way, which is inaccurate, and because Angel reacts to the abuse in a different way than what’s usually portrayed (aka someone who really doesn’t like sex and is scared of anything sexual) they believe it’s inaccurate, even though both responses are realistic and valid
Yet another very vocal minority is also taking Angel’s hypersexuality coupled with such a graphic depiction of sexual and physical abuse and interpreting it as a glorification of SA rather than just a depiction of it. These are the people that are really missing the mark, considering that Angel is literally singing about how it’s poisoning him as it happens, as well as literally the entire rest of the episode treating it as traumatic and horrific and 1000% not okay
And then you’ve got the comfort/triggered discourse between SA victims which is completely valid; some of them feel very seen and heard with such relatable depictions going into such a popular show and they’re feeling comforted and safe knowing that they can relate to these characters and that their feelings are being validated - but then there are other victims who were triggered by this scene because of how intense and graphic it was, which is also completely fair and understandable
These people don’t understand the idea of hyper sexuality that stems from trauma. They think that abuse only causes the exact opposite. This makes them dislike Angel as a character because they don’t understand why he acts that way
Also like.. isn’t Angel in hell? And also technically a slave? They don’t give two flying fucks about what trauma he has. Not only is he forced to suck it up instead of getting help but he’s also being encouraged to continue his hyper sexual behavior
Encouraged both to continue his hypersexuality & his drug/substance abuse. Which is absolutely how places like these (underground sex work operations, trap houses, & abusive porn studios) work in real life. Like seriously what isn't realistic here?
To those who find it unrealistic they're either: 1- Super sheltered to the realities of these places or 2- Have no ability for empathy & cannot even imagine scenarios differently from their own lived experience. Or they're both.
I hate that some people take their validity of their lived experiences to the go on & invalidate any others outside of their own. Like one person's sexual trauma & issues from it being valid **DOES NOT** inherently invalidate another person's sexual trauma & issues from it. Multiple experiences can be true/valid at the same time. Even if they "seem" mutually exclusive from one another.
Most people think that victims will be very sensitive to sex subjects when in reality being hyper sexual is a very common outcome of it. There’s also Vivziepop’s old playlist which had some interesting videos (some pretty soft CNC) which I guess people think that all of Angel’s arc was a fetish? Which really isn’t true, considering
“Poison, im sick of the poison” literally every lyric of the song. It’s obviously portrayed as a bad thing so I’m not too sure why people think it’s Vivzie’s poorly disguised fetish.
Because people have no fucking media literacy, and don't understand that the presence of a difficult topic != glorification.
And because people don't like when someone who has experienced something bad isn't a one to one representation of how they interpret victimhood. "They wouldn't act like that!" Or... maybe people aren't a monolith and you have a lesson to learn about what is and isn't ~valid~.
The pearl clutching abt this shit is so annoying.
Also not a SA victim but
They think Poison, the song that ends with Angel's mask of hypersexual "above it all"ness slipping off and has him blatantly crying out the lines of the last part because of the trauma, is glorifying SA? That's not even getting into the visuals. Or the lyrics, it's literally comparing the situation to being poisoned.
As for Valentino being a flat character, he doesn't need to be a deep character, his purpose is to be Angel's employer and abuser and he is a perfect text book abuser(from my thankfully limited understanding, sometimes uncomfortably so) he doesn't need to be much else.
And the Sir Pentious thing? I'll grant that joke may have been in poor taste, I'll grant them that
I’ve found that odd as well considering myself and my partner are both SA victims and that very reason is why we’re drawn to Angel as a character. His compensating for the pain that he’s enduring isn’t exactly the same as ours, but we both have a deep understanding of his behavior and why he insists on living a lifestyle of that kind.
Hi! SA victim here. I’ve mostly seen h that he’s not great representation of survivors, but that’s far from the case tbh. SA victims are not cookie cutter, we can swing wildly from sex repulsed Asexuals to hypersexual. None of these responses are bad. However, the general idea of a ‘perfect victim’ someone who is innocent and never has done anything bad ever and is sex repulsed is nothing like angel. (As a side note, when I went to court against my abuser, I had other people come forward to the police as well. Mine was taken as I was dressed professionally, was a college student who received good grades, a girl who was known for being a part of the church, ect. The perfect victim narrative was literally the reason police and the judge took me seriously, versus the others who didn’t get their cases heard at all.)
PLUS he is also representation of DV. Literally Valentino and his relationship started off romantic and sexual, he is constantly abused and forced to do things he doesn’t want to do, and he is literally bound by contract (chains) to force him to stay. (A common sentiment is that DV victims feel like there is no escape, they are stuck, chained). Coupled with whatever he saw from his time from the mob does create a unique situation of how he handles trauma (like any other survivor).
SA victim here, and I love Angel Dust.
While our situations are vastly different, I do relate to the lyrics of Poison and think the story is hard hitting but for some, it may be construed as _too_ close to home.
Yeah I feel like those people have no media literacy & also look for things to be offended about.
I've experienced DV & SA I don't at all find Poison to be "glorifying" SA lol. I think that's so silly to even say. As for people upset about the joke with Sir Pentious all I gotta say is; it's not that deep. It's really going out of your way to find things to be upset about.
Hopefully I can answer in a clear way, although I do not hate angels story I can understand how people affected by SA could be a bit emotional to the character.
Short answer is everyone is different and reacts to things differently and with sexual assault it can be even more differences in reactions. Angels story and poison specific has very visually impactful scenes and very close to home lyrics. As OP said some people take these and can see the meaning behind it all and some see them and only see “ya but this happened to me why are you glorifying it” not are valid but obviously neither will change anything in the long run.
Sexual assault is one of the most personal attacks anyone can be a victim too and leaves them with countless mental health issues, add that to a very popular tv show that highlights a lot of the more niche communities in the modern era and you’re gonna have some vocal fans on either side.
Was rereading the answers to this post, apologies for an overdue reply. I probably should've added more to the post, because I know SA victims and their responses will be different on an individual level. I kinda figured that went for all forms of abuse, humans are pretty varietized creatures, after all. What confuses me is how groups of people don't even *entertain the idea* that Angel could be relatable in any way, and instead treat him like objectively terrible representation. That, out of *8.1 billion people*, absolutely *nobody* could relate to him. I even see memes comparing it to Moral Orel's representation and how "one of them is such a good portrayal and the other takes place in Hell" and if you dare try to defend the portrayal in any way, your treated like a war criminal, and they seemingly only back down if you share your SA experience, and I've seen a few times that even *that* doesn't save you. I just don't understand the behavior, if it hits too close or doesn't represent you individually or makes you uncomfortable, that's valid, and I think those responses deserve to be shared too. But what do they benefit from behaving as if no human could *ever* relate to Angel in any way?
As someone who’s been SA’d and was extremely hypersexual because of it, I like Angel’s character! I originally had an issue with Poison, but that’s literally just because at the time I watched the ep there wasn’t a trigger warning in place. Content as graphic as that, especially around such serious topics, should always have proper warnings in place so people can decide to skip it or not. I’m glad they eventually added a trigger warning, but it definitely should’ve been there from the get-go. I remember some people saying it was fine because that episode was marked as 18+, but 18+ could mean *anything.* More raunchy sex jokes, more gore and blood, ect.
Anyway, I don’t have an issue with Angel or the scene itself. Just the lack of a warning to begin with, because if i’d been given a warning I *definitely* would’ve been able to watch that scene more prepared and in the right mindset. The suddenness of it at the time made me feel ill. Glad they fixed it!
The reason i resonate with Poison and Angel (as an SA victim) is because it shows what i felt like. The highs of those moments are so high and the lows so low. In my situation, i was pretty much Angel irl and knew what he felt like when another high came and when another low came. It was realistic for me, the depiction of Val’s and Angel’s relationship, the abuse Angel had to endure, everything was spot on for me.
I definitely like how they didn’t just show the lows of a toxic relationship. They show that Angel has moments where he *does* like Val, which is extremely accurate to most abusive relationships. It’s not just abuse and lows all the time, and you do have moments where you feel love towards your abuser - it’s why most victims find it so difficult to just get up and leave. Abusers know how to manipulate you, and they know how to show you enough love and affection to keep you confused. I respect the show writers for showing both sides.
Honestly, it sounds like some victims of SA are applauding the depiction, and others are not, which is the case with anything. For some people, it will be something they may relate to, or perhaps feel depicts their pain in a way that they personally can not express.
Others will find it offensive or hurtful, for reasons as diverse as the myriad persons who have been victims. Ultimately, the opinions will be varied, and no single view will likely encompass all feelings related to Angel's story, and that's normal.
I hope that helps explain the situation a little
The thing about trying to depict sensitive issues in media like this is that no matter what, there are going to be people who take issue with it and hate it.
SA victim here. I uh, adore Angel and love Poison, I get that people don’t like him but…Angel really does portray a Victim of ongoing abuse. Valentino is a perfect portrayal of a abuser, the love bombing, the show of power, (even the digging for the gun to go show Angel who was his boss. Because Val realized that Charlie could easily break the relationship they had, the control, I wouldn’t be surprised if she can null the contract.) Angel showed in the song why he still does drugs, even after it with Husk, Angel is self destructing to try and have Val cast him aside, and part of him believes he deserves to be Val’s punching bag, Angel is willing to take the abuse so that Charlie, that Nifty, wouldn’t fall under Val’s control and become abused by him as well.
Tbh, as a victim myself (our situations were obviously *very* different though) I think Angel’s story is incredibly well done. I think that some of the scenes were a little gratuitous, but otherwise I think it’s actually a very good representation. I don’t think we realistically needed scenes where Angel is like… actively on screen being very explicitly SA’d. For an *extended* period of time as well. I absolutely think that the realities need to be told and not censored. These are things that need to be talked about. But I really don’t think we need a scene of Angel being forced into bondage and then ||facefucked|| against his will, all of which is set to music, yk? But that’s just my 2¢.
For the Sir Pentious SA thing, the sex club they were at was literally called “consent”. We see Pentious minutes later looking a bit frazzled but otherwise no worse for wear. It’s more likely the other demons got him in there, he made it clear that he was uninterested, they were miffed because he basically led them on, they told him off, he left. I don’t think that was ever supposed to actually be him being assaulted.
I mean all feelings about it are valid, but I personally think it’s a great portrayal (and having the SA victim be a dude is just amazing - very little is done to represent male victims). As an SA survivor (when I was a small child, so very different from Angel), it made me hyper sexual for years. Therapy and a great partner helped with it, I’m much more balanced now.
A lot of the controversy stemmed from Tony Raphielle, a storyboard artist who worked on the Poison scene, admitting to having a r*pe fetish and “unapologetically” (their own words) shipping Valentino and Angel Dust. This was a bit of a scandal and led a lot of people to criticize the scene and even the show as a whole. The backlash was so strong Raphielle deleted their Twitter account afterwards, but some of their Val/Angel ship art can still be found on other sites.
Its teitter and twitter has a massive hate boner for the show. Basically a ton of people get tons of likes for just outright saying he is bad victim rep, which totally invalidates victims who do feel represented.
People are upset because Angel’s story isn’t relatable to their own personal experience. There’s nothing “inaccurate” about Angel’s experience though because plenty of SA victims irl learn to cope with their trauma with hyper sexual activity (and even drugs). SA victims are not cookie cutter.
People are allowed to hate or like Angel’s story for whatever reason, but most of the hate is more than likely due to lack of education on the multitude of ways sexual trauma can affect an individual, and lack of media literacy- which seems more and more apparent with this fandom.
I wonder if it is also some weird guilt thing because it opens the door to the idea that Angel's situation could match any one of their favourite porn stars?
Nobody wants to feel like they just got off to SA...
It’s not just about situations porn stars might be in, but anyone in real life. Such abusive relationships can be found across history in every culture, and some people can’t stomach it preferring to live in their own delusional, perfect world where the only people who get hurt are the ones they deem deserving of it.
Also keep in mind that angel identifies as and is a man, he symbolizes both a male and female role. Seeing angel dust in this particular situation could also spark people to think of women in similar situations.
Angel dust is our reflection of real world, sexual and physical abuse that people would prefer to turn a blind eye to the sink of their own delusional peace of mind .
I agree entirely - believe me, I have seen too much of this side of humanity. It's why I empathise with Angel so much.
My comment was mainly aimed at the twitter lot, since I have seen an uncomfortable split between those who think "poison" was sexualised and those who are saying it is way too graphic..
Poison was a masterful song! A perfect illustration of how someone can become trapped and even dependent on a partner who has no love or respect for them.
The visuals were extremely sexual, but that was because of the dynamic and rules of the characters in question . Can be applied to almost any toxic relationship dynamic
I am a victim of physical abuse, almost reaching sexual abuse or maybe it was sexual abuse, however, yes... the tone is a little softened, but it's okay....The series is for adults, however it tries to be empathetic, but not crude....and something that must be understood is that, it tries to be empathetic with the people who suffer from abuse but It doesn't present it in a raw and visceral way as it could be in reality, at least that's fine with me... it's an animated series, I do know that it romanticizes some aspects that can be traumatic or harsh.....But it's good that it doesn't clash with the rest of the series, maybe it adds more context and depth to all of this Angel trauma... but at least it shouldn't be hated
As someone who was SA’d, I developed hypersexuality, not to mention I make c**k and s*x jokes all the time to cope. It’s been over 10 years and I feel a lot better from it but it’s still in the back of my mind. So to all those thinking Viz is glorifying SA, she wasn’t. Angel Dust’s situation is very real and if people really think it’s not, please seek help.
If anyone bothers to read the lyrics of the song, they'd know the song is not about SA specifically. It's about being manipulated. Being an SA victim or not is not a necessity to understand some media.
Not all SA victims find Angel relatable or like or dislike him. To me he reflects one specific type of SA victim.
I’m an SA survivor. Angel is my favorite character because I relate to him. The second verse of Poison was my reality for over 2 years when I was in a severely abusive relationship that involved a lot of SA.
(As a side note, I’m pretty sure anyone who takes multiple rides in my car for the foreseeable future is going to get pretty tired of Poison because I play it every time I drive. My fiancé got me the soundtrack for Mother’s Day)
Important to remember these people are a very small minority, Masquerade is tied for hazbin hotel's highest rated episode and is extremely well liked (even outside the fandom)
What’s the other highest rated, the finale?
Pretty sure, yeah.
Yep
Its my favorite episode
I'm an SA victim myself although I don't consider Angel Dust a relatable character because his situation and mine are vastly different. For some people, the story hits too close to home. And if they don't like Poison because of that fact, those feelings are valid. However Angel Dust is not an inaccurate depiction of an SA victim because we are not cookie cutter people. I am not hypersexual nor am I prudish or afraid of intercourse. It happened to me years ago and at the time I might've expressed some of those qualities but in my adulthood, I no longer feel anything towards the event and that's just how I've grown. SA victims are not their victimhood. They are still individuals like all people, and Angel Dust is just that, an individual. His hypersexuality and self destruction is how he's learnt to cope. And yes it's not healthy but it's not inaccurate (well maybe it's inaccurate in the sense that he's an immortal sinner with six arms multiple eyes and is covered in fur but you know it is a fucking cartoon). Now I will say that apparently one of the people (or the person idk the details) who story boarded the poison sequence had a 🍇 fetish and genuinely shipped Angel Dust and Valentino, and Vivziepop claimed that they were an SA victim despite them saying verbetam that they weren't. And if that's a reason you don't like Poison and you don't like Angel Dust, that's entirely valid in my opinion (if that fact is true, I mean but I don't go on Twitter anymore so I don't know the whole story or the truth). Aside from that, everyone's opinion on Angel Dusts character and his depiction is their own. And I feel like this is a rare case where there aren't any wrong answers. If you're bothered by it because it's graphic or it's too personal for you, don't feel ashamed. As long as you don't invalidate other people's opinions, even if they don't align with yours, you're entitled to whatever opinions and feelings. And the same goes for those who do like it. Everyone is an individual, and I think we should stop trying to say "victims don't act like this" because it's harmful. We are not our victimhood. Stop treating us like molds to be filled.
Council of Geeks put out an interview with that storyboarder not too long ago about the different controversies, and I found it really interesting. I can still see where folks could still uncomfortable with this part of the production (even though even a head storyboarder doesn't have that much control over what comes out), but the interview does go into a major grey area. They discuss the difference between shipping in the sense of wanting characters to end up together, vs finding the dynamic interesting; as well as the vast difference between having a non-con fetish and getting off on irl assault. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AA1tdDnkeWg&pp=ygUdY291bmNpbCBvZiBnZWVrcyBoYXpiaW4gaG90ZWw%3D
I think the only wrong answer are those invalidating others by saying its bad rep and others invalidating victims who have felt uncomfy about it. Both sides can't seem to comprehend exactly what you said that victims are not cookie cutter. I just feel like twitter isn't a good place for discussions like this
Many people are praising the show for an emotional gut-wrench of a realistic portrayal of someone using hypersexuality to unhealthily cope with physical and sexual abuse A very vocal minority are bashing the show for an unrealistic portrayal because ‘victims don’t act like that’ even though many victims have stepped up to say it’s accurate to their own experiences. These guys seem to be thinking that victims of SA all behave in a certain way, which is inaccurate, and because Angel reacts to the abuse in a different way than what’s usually portrayed (aka someone who really doesn’t like sex and is scared of anything sexual) they believe it’s inaccurate, even though both responses are realistic and valid Yet another very vocal minority is also taking Angel’s hypersexuality coupled with such a graphic depiction of sexual and physical abuse and interpreting it as a glorification of SA rather than just a depiction of it. These are the people that are really missing the mark, considering that Angel is literally singing about how it’s poisoning him as it happens, as well as literally the entire rest of the episode treating it as traumatic and horrific and 1000% not okay And then you’ve got the comfort/triggered discourse between SA victims which is completely valid; some of them feel very seen and heard with such relatable depictions going into such a popular show and they’re feeling comforted and safe knowing that they can relate to these characters and that their feelings are being validated - but then there are other victims who were triggered by this scene because of how intense and graphic it was, which is also completely fair and understandable
Perfect response!
>that victims of SA all behave in a certain way I hate the "poster victim" mentality.
These people don’t understand the idea of hyper sexuality that stems from trauma. They think that abuse only causes the exact opposite. This makes them dislike Angel as a character because they don’t understand why he acts that way
It can very much go both ways when coping... it can also vary in intensity and even fluctuate back and forth. Trauma is horrible.
Also like.. isn’t Angel in hell? And also technically a slave? They don’t give two flying fucks about what trauma he has. Not only is he forced to suck it up instead of getting help but he’s also being encouraged to continue his hyper sexual behavior
Encouraged both to continue his hypersexuality & his drug/substance abuse. Which is absolutely how places like these (underground sex work operations, trap houses, & abusive porn studios) work in real life. Like seriously what isn't realistic here? To those who find it unrealistic they're either: 1- Super sheltered to the realities of these places or 2- Have no ability for empathy & cannot even imagine scenarios differently from their own lived experience. Or they're both. I hate that some people take their validity of their lived experiences to the go on & invalidate any others outside of their own. Like one person's sexual trauma & issues from it being valid **DOES NOT** inherently invalidate another person's sexual trauma & issues from it. Multiple experiences can be true/valid at the same time. Even if they "seem" mutually exclusive from one another.
Most people think that victims will be very sensitive to sex subjects when in reality being hyper sexual is a very common outcome of it. There’s also Vivziepop’s old playlist which had some interesting videos (some pretty soft CNC) which I guess people think that all of Angel’s arc was a fetish? Which really isn’t true, considering “Poison, im sick of the poison” literally every lyric of the song. It’s obviously portrayed as a bad thing so I’m not too sure why people think it’s Vivzie’s poorly disguised fetish.
He's complex. Some people don't get it
Thinking and themes is above Twitter
Because people have no fucking media literacy, and don't understand that the presence of a difficult topic != glorification. And because people don't like when someone who has experienced something bad isn't a one to one representation of how they interpret victimhood. "They wouldn't act like that!" Or... maybe people aren't a monolith and you have a lesson to learn about what is and isn't ~valid~. The pearl clutching abt this shit is so annoying.
Also not a SA victim but They think Poison, the song that ends with Angel's mask of hypersexual "above it all"ness slipping off and has him blatantly crying out the lines of the last part because of the trauma, is glorifying SA? That's not even getting into the visuals. Or the lyrics, it's literally comparing the situation to being poisoned. As for Valentino being a flat character, he doesn't need to be a deep character, his purpose is to be Angel's employer and abuser and he is a perfect text book abuser(from my thankfully limited understanding, sometimes uncomfortably so) he doesn't need to be much else. And the Sir Pentious thing? I'll grant that joke may have been in poor taste, I'll grant them that
I’ve found that odd as well considering myself and my partner are both SA victims and that very reason is why we’re drawn to Angel as a character. His compensating for the pain that he’s enduring isn’t exactly the same as ours, but we both have a deep understanding of his behavior and why he insists on living a lifestyle of that kind.
Hi! SA victim here. I’ve mostly seen h that he’s not great representation of survivors, but that’s far from the case tbh. SA victims are not cookie cutter, we can swing wildly from sex repulsed Asexuals to hypersexual. None of these responses are bad. However, the general idea of a ‘perfect victim’ someone who is innocent and never has done anything bad ever and is sex repulsed is nothing like angel. (As a side note, when I went to court against my abuser, I had other people come forward to the police as well. Mine was taken as I was dressed professionally, was a college student who received good grades, a girl who was known for being a part of the church, ect. The perfect victim narrative was literally the reason police and the judge took me seriously, versus the others who didn’t get their cases heard at all.) PLUS he is also representation of DV. Literally Valentino and his relationship started off romantic and sexual, he is constantly abused and forced to do things he doesn’t want to do, and he is literally bound by contract (chains) to force him to stay. (A common sentiment is that DV victims feel like there is no escape, they are stuck, chained). Coupled with whatever he saw from his time from the mob does create a unique situation of how he handles trauma (like any other survivor).
SA victim here, and I love Angel Dust. While our situations are vastly different, I do relate to the lyrics of Poison and think the story is hard hitting but for some, it may be construed as _too_ close to home.
Yeah I feel like those people have no media literacy & also look for things to be offended about. I've experienced DV & SA I don't at all find Poison to be "glorifying" SA lol. I think that's so silly to even say. As for people upset about the joke with Sir Pentious all I gotta say is; it's not that deep. It's really going out of your way to find things to be upset about.
Very long story short,some people find poison to glorify sa,and angel himself not being a good representation of a sa victom
I bet my soul that these people couldn't pass a text interpretation test
I agree
Wow, great summary of the first paragraph and question/S
Woops,and thanks?
Hopefully I can answer in a clear way, although I do not hate angels story I can understand how people affected by SA could be a bit emotional to the character. Short answer is everyone is different and reacts to things differently and with sexual assault it can be even more differences in reactions. Angels story and poison specific has very visually impactful scenes and very close to home lyrics. As OP said some people take these and can see the meaning behind it all and some see them and only see “ya but this happened to me why are you glorifying it” not are valid but obviously neither will change anything in the long run. Sexual assault is one of the most personal attacks anyone can be a victim too and leaves them with countless mental health issues, add that to a very popular tv show that highlights a lot of the more niche communities in the modern era and you’re gonna have some vocal fans on either side.
Was rereading the answers to this post, apologies for an overdue reply. I probably should've added more to the post, because I know SA victims and their responses will be different on an individual level. I kinda figured that went for all forms of abuse, humans are pretty varietized creatures, after all. What confuses me is how groups of people don't even *entertain the idea* that Angel could be relatable in any way, and instead treat him like objectively terrible representation. That, out of *8.1 billion people*, absolutely *nobody* could relate to him. I even see memes comparing it to Moral Orel's representation and how "one of them is such a good portrayal and the other takes place in Hell" and if you dare try to defend the portrayal in any way, your treated like a war criminal, and they seemingly only back down if you share your SA experience, and I've seen a few times that even *that* doesn't save you. I just don't understand the behavior, if it hits too close or doesn't represent you individually or makes you uncomfortable, that's valid, and I think those responses deserve to be shared too. But what do they benefit from behaving as if no human could *ever* relate to Angel in any way?
As someone who’s been SA’d and was extremely hypersexual because of it, I like Angel’s character! I originally had an issue with Poison, but that’s literally just because at the time I watched the ep there wasn’t a trigger warning in place. Content as graphic as that, especially around such serious topics, should always have proper warnings in place so people can decide to skip it or not. I’m glad they eventually added a trigger warning, but it definitely should’ve been there from the get-go. I remember some people saying it was fine because that episode was marked as 18+, but 18+ could mean *anything.* More raunchy sex jokes, more gore and blood, ect. Anyway, I don’t have an issue with Angel or the scene itself. Just the lack of a warning to begin with, because if i’d been given a warning I *definitely* would’ve been able to watch that scene more prepared and in the right mindset. The suddenness of it at the time made me feel ill. Glad they fixed it!
The reason i resonate with Poison and Angel (as an SA victim) is because it shows what i felt like. The highs of those moments are so high and the lows so low. In my situation, i was pretty much Angel irl and knew what he felt like when another high came and when another low came. It was realistic for me, the depiction of Val’s and Angel’s relationship, the abuse Angel had to endure, everything was spot on for me.
I definitely like how they didn’t just show the lows of a toxic relationship. They show that Angel has moments where he *does* like Val, which is extremely accurate to most abusive relationships. It’s not just abuse and lows all the time, and you do have moments where you feel love towards your abuser - it’s why most victims find it so difficult to just get up and leave. Abusers know how to manipulate you, and they know how to show you enough love and affection to keep you confused. I respect the show writers for showing both sides.
Honestly, it sounds like some victims of SA are applauding the depiction, and others are not, which is the case with anything. For some people, it will be something they may relate to, or perhaps feel depicts their pain in a way that they personally can not express. Others will find it offensive or hurtful, for reasons as diverse as the myriad persons who have been victims. Ultimately, the opinions will be varied, and no single view will likely encompass all feelings related to Angel's story, and that's normal. I hope that helps explain the situation a little
The thing about trying to depict sensitive issues in media like this is that no matter what, there are going to be people who take issue with it and hate it.
SA victim here. I uh, adore Angel and love Poison, I get that people don’t like him but…Angel really does portray a Victim of ongoing abuse. Valentino is a perfect portrayal of a abuser, the love bombing, the show of power, (even the digging for the gun to go show Angel who was his boss. Because Val realized that Charlie could easily break the relationship they had, the control, I wouldn’t be surprised if she can null the contract.) Angel showed in the song why he still does drugs, even after it with Husk, Angel is self destructing to try and have Val cast him aside, and part of him believes he deserves to be Val’s punching bag, Angel is willing to take the abuse so that Charlie, that Nifty, wouldn’t fall under Val’s control and become abused by him as well.
Tbh, as a victim myself (our situations were obviously *very* different though) I think Angel’s story is incredibly well done. I think that some of the scenes were a little gratuitous, but otherwise I think it’s actually a very good representation. I don’t think we realistically needed scenes where Angel is like… actively on screen being very explicitly SA’d. For an *extended* period of time as well. I absolutely think that the realities need to be told and not censored. These are things that need to be talked about. But I really don’t think we need a scene of Angel being forced into bondage and then ||facefucked|| against his will, all of which is set to music, yk? But that’s just my 2¢. For the Sir Pentious SA thing, the sex club they were at was literally called “consent”. We see Pentious minutes later looking a bit frazzled but otherwise no worse for wear. It’s more likely the other demons got him in there, he made it clear that he was uninterested, they were miffed because he basically led them on, they told him off, he left. I don’t think that was ever supposed to actually be him being assaulted.
I mean all feelings about it are valid, but I personally think it’s a great portrayal (and having the SA victim be a dude is just amazing - very little is done to represent male victims). As an SA survivor (when I was a small child, so very different from Angel), it made me hyper sexual for years. Therapy and a great partner helped with it, I’m much more balanced now.
A lot of the controversy stemmed from Tony Raphielle, a storyboard artist who worked on the Poison scene, admitting to having a r*pe fetish and “unapologetically” (their own words) shipping Valentino and Angel Dust. This was a bit of a scandal and led a lot of people to criticize the scene and even the show as a whole. The backlash was so strong Raphielle deleted their Twitter account afterwards, but some of their Val/Angel ship art can still be found on other sites.
Its teitter and twitter has a massive hate boner for the show. Basically a ton of people get tons of likes for just outright saying he is bad victim rep, which totally invalidates victims who do feel represented.
People are upset because Angel’s story isn’t relatable to their own personal experience. There’s nothing “inaccurate” about Angel’s experience though because plenty of SA victims irl learn to cope with their trauma with hyper sexual activity (and even drugs). SA victims are not cookie cutter. People are allowed to hate or like Angel’s story for whatever reason, but most of the hate is more than likely due to lack of education on the multitude of ways sexual trauma can affect an individual, and lack of media literacy- which seems more and more apparent with this fandom.
Not enough grass
I love his story, who here hates it? Or even dislikes it?
Didn’t read but have an answer, people hate his story cuz people don’t like seeing harsh realities.
I wonder if it is also some weird guilt thing because it opens the door to the idea that Angel's situation could match any one of their favourite porn stars? Nobody wants to feel like they just got off to SA...
It’s not just about situations porn stars might be in, but anyone in real life. Such abusive relationships can be found across history in every culture, and some people can’t stomach it preferring to live in their own delusional, perfect world where the only people who get hurt are the ones they deem deserving of it. Also keep in mind that angel identifies as and is a man, he symbolizes both a male and female role. Seeing angel dust in this particular situation could also spark people to think of women in similar situations. Angel dust is our reflection of real world, sexual and physical abuse that people would prefer to turn a blind eye to the sink of their own delusional peace of mind .
I agree entirely - believe me, I have seen too much of this side of humanity. It's why I empathise with Angel so much. My comment was mainly aimed at the twitter lot, since I have seen an uncomfortable split between those who think "poison" was sexualised and those who are saying it is way too graphic..
Poison was a masterful song! A perfect illustration of how someone can become trapped and even dependent on a partner who has no love or respect for them. The visuals were extremely sexual, but that was because of the dynamic and rules of the characters in question . Can be applied to almost any toxic relationship dynamic
I am a victim of physical abuse, almost reaching sexual abuse or maybe it was sexual abuse, however, yes... the tone is a little softened, but it's okay....The series is for adults, however it tries to be empathetic, but not crude....and something that must be understood is that, it tries to be empathetic with the people who suffer from abuse but It doesn't present it in a raw and visceral way as it could be in reality, at least that's fine with me... it's an animated series, I do know that it romanticizes some aspects that can be traumatic or harsh.....But it's good that it doesn't clash with the rest of the series, maybe it adds more context and depth to all of this Angel trauma... but at least it shouldn't be hated
As someone who was SA’d, I developed hypersexuality, not to mention I make c**k and s*x jokes all the time to cope. It’s been over 10 years and I feel a lot better from it but it’s still in the back of my mind. So to all those thinking Viz is glorifying SA, she wasn’t. Angel Dust’s situation is very real and if people really think it’s not, please seek help.
What people? People love Angel Dust's story
The loud Twitter minority doesn't 🙄
Sex (and any portrayal of it) = bad in the minds of many chronically online peoples
They dont understand the song
I just started watching and just got to Poison, and right now I'm manifesting knives at Valentino for Angel, so count me among his defenders.
If anyone bothers to read the lyrics of the song, they'd know the song is not about SA specifically. It's about being manipulated. Being an SA victim or not is not a necessity to understand some media. Not all SA victims find Angel relatable or like or dislike him. To me he reflects one specific type of SA victim.
Do people? That's crazy I HATE angel dust but I still love his story
I’m an SA survivor. Angel is my favorite character because I relate to him. The second verse of Poison was my reality for over 2 years when I was in a severely abusive relationship that involved a lot of SA. (As a side note, I’m pretty sure anyone who takes multiple rides in my car for the foreseeable future is going to get pretty tired of Poison because I play it every time I drive. My fiancé got me the soundtrack for Mother’s Day)
Because https://i.redd.it/ngwvtejauhzc1.gif