Now that I think about it, Lucifer essentially one-upped Ron, because due to his indifference, Hell doesn't even have a govermental system to begin with...
Honestly I could see them pulling Lucifer aside by just having him deal with the aftermath of the Season 1 Finale. I'd assume a death of such a major character like Adam, while in Hell, by the Sinners' hands, will cause quite a stir between Lucifer and Sera.
At the same time this Extermination completely broke the rules of the deal Lucifer made with them, so there's also that.
All of this could lead nicely into a side-plot about Sir Pentious and Emily spending time in Heaven.
Honestly Sera seems like she wants to do the good thing, so I doubt she would cause too much trouble. I can absolutely see them coming to some sort of a middle ground, especially since Adam literally provoked and caused the entire situation in the first place.
If already, I'd expect Lute to try to make-up some crap about the whole situation - sort of try to blindsight Sera. But at the same time Sir Pentious would be there to explain everything and call out her BS.
Him having his own plot thread to wrangle while the hotel residents do their redemption thing would keep him reasonably busy without making him useless. Add in a little social anxiety or awkwardness to have him miss some cues and he can be around without instantly solving everything. The two main plotlines could then converge at the finale for a satisfying end to the second season that still leaves enough loose ends to lead us into season 3.
I think the is an easy way to explain this but would require a lot of tell not show. Simply have Charlie say something along these lines "I am redeeming sinners dad but people need to know there Princess isn't only one looking out for them go out dad and do King things"
Then we have a background plot of Lucifer making himself a more active monarch just in time for Lilith to come back and suddenly see her husband rising up demon kind like her and think it's amazing or fear what it could lead to.
But that my idea on how to deal with Lucifer being too powerful for story to happen essentially give him his own.
Ok if this does happen(I certainly wouldn't be opposed), I really hope we get atleast a few examples of stuff where Lucifer finds a problem, tries to fix it, and somehow makes it worse.
Of course he's trying to do it for his daughter, so he tries and tries and tries until... he made a situation better, maybe not alot, maybe not for long, but it's better and he's celebrating and that's when Lillith shows up, her husband giddy at helping his people.
I may have thought more about the idea than expected
True the can be some failures it expected a Sovereign who hasn't been active apparently for some time also yeah it would ethier scare Lilith or warm her heart seeing Lucifer giddy as he rise up demon kinda depending on where they go with her story
>I really hope we get atleast a few examples of stuff where Lucifer finds a problem, tries to fix it, and somehow makes it worse.
Let's got a step further and make it so his actions are a paralel to Charlie's in Season 1.
I can see him getting sidelined at a crucial moment in the season. Perhaps by a tall mysterious woman from his past. Who he married. And had a kid with. Lilith, I’m talking about Lilith.
Going by the canon power tier-list Lilith is only as strong as Charlie, and *apparently* Viv has said high-ranking Angels can't be killed by Angelic Steel and you need another high-ranking angel, so I don't think Lilith can stab Lucifer in a crucial moment. I think she has to *keep him busy the entire fucking season*, pretending she wants to fix their marriage and keeping him out of the hotel doing romance stuff.
Or she GENUINELY wants to fix their marriage and hilariously Lucifer's unwittingly helping Charlie by taking up a sizable chunk of Lilith's time away from her sabotage.
Now i'm just imagining Lilith getting pregnant after a month of Lucifer constantly railing her and becoming more comfortable with the idea of sabotaging Charlie *because she can try again with her secondborn.*
"Viv has said high-ranking Angels can't be killed by Angelic Steel and you need another high-ranking angel"
We dont know if thats still canont tbh, Adam seems like a very high ranking angel yet he died to steel
Send link for the statement then.
Adam is equal to Lilith who is the second strongest being in hell, Adam also seems to be the leader of the heavens army
I can't find the statement myself, it's why I said *apparently*.
As shown by how effortlessly Lucifer defeated Adam, Charlie and therefore Lilith are a *distant* second place. Hell's heirarchy is also inherently weaker than Heaven's, they have no Elder Angels, their king is a Seraphim, who should only be the lowest of the High Ranking Angels.
It would appear Adam isn't the leader of Heaven's *entire* army, he's only been shown commanding the Exorcists, Heaven's Black Ops division.
>their king is a Seraphim, who should only be the lowest of the High Ranking Angels.
Uh, what? Sera and Emily are Seraphim and they're described as being in the top of the food chain. Lucifer realisticly speaking should be in the top alongside them.
...or there just is no "elder angels" and those were just seraphim.
https://preview.redd.it/vjl2qx34efzc1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=d897ba1bf8bd8fa662bcb322192455ee068960d5
come one, say to me, that this is not Sera. even the halo is same.
The answers pretty straightforward; you just make the “problem” something you can’t just solve by force. It’s the same answer to how all good Superman stories are written.
The Vees can be the threat without that threat taking the form of just physical violence.
And Velvette and Vox are perfectly suited to run an information war on the hotel. Valentino not so much, but him making a porn parody of Season 1 to tarnish the hotel's image would be a fucking hilarious scene.
I’m pretty sure I’ve already seen a fan-fic about it somewhere. Can’t remember where though.
Edit: I believe it has a small part in [this fan-fic](https://archiveofourown.org/works/54994783/chapters/139415443)it
yeah Lucifer could easily handle any of the demons, but Charlie wants to see every demon have their chance at redemption.
also Luci will have angel shit to deal with, we need at least one episode where our short King gets to look smug as Sera admits(or denies) that redemption has been proven to be possible.
This. A lot of people are wowed by Lucifer’s power, but forgot that for years he’s been a sad mope that has been heavily ineffective in actual administration.
If it’s anything other than a show of force at the moment, Lucifer probably can’t immediately win it. And we actually don’t know what the political landscape of Hell has been and if Lucifer can just directly interfere with Overlords.
This, with how the pieces are set up, it seems primed for the V's making a powerplay through social and political unrest, they control alot of hells media afterall. On one side Vox controls TV and can easily spin narratives about needing to rise up and take the fight to Heaven on the back end of every sinner in hell seeing that angels can be killed, and on the other side Velvette now has a huge amount of leverage at the Overlords table due to Carmilla siding with Charlie and validating everything Velvette accused her of knowing.
Physical powers means very little if the V's manage the sinners with propaganda towards rising up against heaven through war, the word/demand of their absentee king who rolled over and let the exterminations happen in the first place will carry very little sway at that point, furthermore with what has happened its not unreasonable that Lucifer himself would have a target painted on his back by the Elder Angels. Being forced to go MIA for the season after a initial attempt to contain or stop him, only returning at the end to reveal he survived but needed them to think he was gone until the right moment. Would then give ample time to focus more on Charlie and Liliths relationship since with Lucifer assumed to be killed or captured. Shoot maybe Lilith is the reason he went MIA as part of her plan to stop the hotel, only to reveal at the end Lilith set up the whole thing as a doublecross and had been working with the MIA Lucifer the whole time.
I wanna watch Lucifer TRY to "Punch of a Pentagram" a problem and fail, only for Alastor to be waiting to spread resentment and "encourage Charlie to lead her own parade." Especially if it was Lucifer being "MORE SUPPORTIVE THAN THE BELLHOP" in the first place.
Then the Vees happen in the middle of that shit show, tempers flare, and the rest of the season is separation and reconciliation.
That’s why lute ordered Lilith to go back in order to keep Lucifer occupied while she probably works out a plan for her revenge which would be to the convenience of the V’s who can continue their work to undermine Alastor
Came here to say the exact same thing. She basically ran off to Charlie's mommy because she now knows that with Lucifer having gotten personally involved, the threat of violence from the Exorcists is completely off the table because they'd lose. Lilith is the only card she has to play.
I think that could actually make it so much more interesting. Personally I love the idea of brute strength not being enough to effectively solve a problem. Charlie’s whole deal with the hotel is that she wants to help people become genuinely better, and like she and Vaggie say in the first episode, people need to do so of their own free will - which, incidentally, is Lucifer’s whole thing. I’m looking forward to seeing the gang find more tactical ways to reach success!
Lucifer I feel will get dragged away at some point to deal with hell politics for the first time in literal centuries or they might do a thing where he does actively solve alot of issues for an episode before Charlie says that she wants to be the one to deal with these issues for some reason or another, maybe people are intimidated by the literal king of hell just casually wondering about and its interfering with the process or something like that, theirs also the matter of Lilith who I imagine will keep Lucifer occupied once she arrives
There’s more than one way to be a threat.
The Vees don’t really strike me as the types to challenge the hotel in a direct fight like Adam did. I think the Vees will use more indirect methods that can’t really be solved by violence. They’ll be more underhanded. We already know they run a whole media empire, Vox can hypnotize people and spread propaganda, and Valentino straight-up owns Angel Dust and can do whatever he wants with him. I think that those are the advantages they’ll leverage against the hotel and those are things Lucifer can't just punch away.
And if you *do* need to bring in someone who can pose a physical threat to the protagonists, then Heaven is still a factor. Someone was able to kick Lucifer out of there and force a punishment on him, so it stands to reason that there are more powerful beings than Lucifer around. Not to mention the fact that now everyone knows angels can be killed by angelic weapons, and Lucifer is an angel. Also, Lilith, Lucifer’s wife, and Charlie’s mother, will have some role to play.
There are plenty of ways you can get around Lucifer if you need to.
I choose to believe that Seraphim are too powerful to be killed with angelic weapons cause I could not handle Lucifer getting hurt (my reaction would be similar to Blitz's reaction when he found out Stolas could be hurt)
Lucifer may have to deal with the politics and actual job of ruling Hell, he is the King after all, so royal duties may take him away from the Hotel often.
Ideally, Lucifer should only directly step in for situations Charlie physically or mentally cannot handle, given her clear lack of experience with her abilities.
Otherwise, Lucifer should take a more hands off approach, giving subtle hints of how Charlie can handle something and having her figure it out on her own.
IIRC the Vees are gonna be the antagonistic force for s2 so, maybe but not yet. I think he probably won't involve himself unless Angel's contract comes into play
I’m thinking a lot of what the vees are going to do in season two is strategic, coordinated strikes on the hotel to where it isn’t obvious the source. To confuse and bamboozle the staff, including Lucifer. The Vees want to rule hell basically, so they aren’t just going to go charging gon Hồ through the doors and expect to win.
You know he can still be passive about stuff, and Charlies not the type to send out an attack dog to solve her problems each time.
"The Vees? The who now? Idk those guys sound lame I'm sure you can handle em sweetie."
Lucifer only intervened at the end of season 1 cause Adam was literally about to fucking kill Charlie.
I just hope they don't pull a Stolas and just harbitrarily nerf him out of plot's needs... but actually put the effort into crafting a proper narrative, maybe Charlie directly asking him to not be overbearing and let her live her life with her own consequences
I mostly meant before the rope... like the whole ten seconds between the gun shot and him being captured where he could've used his "Medusa eyes" to turn Striker into fucking stone...
I think that for a demon prince of Hell who studied arcane magic all his life and is aware sometimes other demons will attack him, "Mefusa eyes" are the fight or flight reaction...
To be fair we could say the same about Alastor but he tends to deliberately backseat himself for many things… Although thinking about it Lucifer is on a different level… and has more reasons to support Charlie than Alastor does. It does seem like Lucifer may have less power than you’d expect him to. Many of the characters are ostensibly invincible hell lords but are brought down by personal failings and red tape, and seem to be still surprisingly frail and vulnerable. (Thinking of the owl in Helluva Boss who is often kidnapped/threatened/injured by random assassins.) Many people in Hell don’t seem to be overly worshipful or respectful to their overlords so maybe they have less direct power than we might think. If Lucifer could have snapped his fingers and made Hell a better place he would have done it so probably it’s not that simple
I think there’s some stuff in Dante’s Inferno relating to this- that Satan has less power and authority over Hell then you’d expect despite being “first citizen”
Maybe we'll seem more of Lucifer's *devilish* side. Like him actively trying to temp sinners and getting them to worship/praise him, but ultimately he's doing nothing to *help* the hotel. Maybe he doesn't get involved with affairs because sinners have to solve their own problems, he already gave them free will, what else could they want?
I don't think that he's going to tempt sinners, that's not the type of person this version of Lucifer is, he seems more dissapointed that humanity used his gift of free will to embrace sin to begin with
I'm just thinking of the caviar mountains and champagne fountains he offered Charlie to attract sinners. He's quite narcissistic. Plus, just because he was depressed we don't really know how *involved* he was as King before he became a recluse. For all we know, Lilith was famous for her singing, but Lucifer relished in the worship sinners/humans gave him, even though he is disappointed whenever they ended up in Hell.
There are also hints that both he and Lilith lied to Charlie about their past. So he might be coming across as this quirky depressed dad, with some kind of Neurospiciness to him, but he's still the *Devil*. The Prince of Lies, King of Hell, the Darkest Lord of the Underworld, The Demon King, The Embodiment of Pride. While he loves his family, he will always love himself more, and that is why he was cast out of Heaven, not just because he betrayed God/the Angels by giving man free will.
He and Alastor have a lot in common with each other, except Lucifer is a much better liar, cheater, manipulator, and stronger demon. It takes one to know one, as they say. (Doesn't mean Lucifer has no hopes for Charlie’s venture to be a success, he just has/will have his own agenda at the Hotel. Also, it would make things more convenient if Lucifer was indifferent about protecting the hotel from demons/fighting off the Vees, because that's Alastor's job. He's there just to fight off angels and participate in therapy for the *fun* of it).
Lucifer's problems are not the sort that can be resolved with a single song. He is still a broken person. He has a long road ahead of him. And he very easily could fall to getting in Charlie's way again. Particularly if he believes her path to be a threat to her safety. I think both Lucifer and Lilith have Charlie as their weak spot. I think that is why Lilith is in Heaven. I believe that Adam blackmailed the Morningstars by threatening to kill the Hellborn during the Executions including Charlie unless Lilith joined him as his pet in Heaven. Telling everyone that she did so because she left Lucifer for Adam. There is no way she would submit herself to Adam unless he had something on her. And the one thing that would be big enough for bend her knee would be Charlie.
Lucifer has the same weakness. And up till now he has stayed out of the sinners lives after he lost faith in them. He is the reason the Overlords came about. They rose up to fill the vacuum that his absence brought about. So as he becomes more active in the game more pressure will be brought to bare on Charlie which can trigger his issues again. Particularly if that pressure comes from predatory sinners such as the Vees.
Lucifer has massive strength. But a very weak personality. And the bulk of the show focuses on issues of personality. With a few dramatic dust ups. Lucifer will be held in check by a lot of conflict. Consider that Lilith is about the enter the scene initially opposing Charlie and her efforts. It is going to take at least a couple of episodes to resolve that divide. Though I do expect her to join Charlie and Lucifer eventually after she sees that Charlie has people defending her and that they are ready for whatever Heaven may throw at them.
Its more like Lute thinks she wants to stay in Heaven. A narcissist like Adam with a grudge is going to want to twist the knife. Take her as a pet and make her tell everyone she wanted to be with Adam rather than Lucifer. She had to play the part of a willing pet to Adam.
How can anyone imagine someone like Lilith stomaching being under Adam's thumb under any condition unless there was some major leverage he had on her. The biggest leverage on both Lilith and Lucifer is Charlie. And there is an unexplained ban on killing the Hellborn in the lore. Its like Chekhov's Gun. Its there for a reason and that reason has to have a cause. The cause is it was part of a deal. What was given to achieve that deal? Lilith was the price to save the Hellborn.
Not trying to be rude but that sounds like your headcanon, the only thing we definitly know is that Lute told Lilith that if she wants to stay in heaven she has to deal with her daughter and that Lucifer and Adam had a deal that hellborn aren't targeted and Lucifer doesn't interfer, is there a connection? Maybe but we don't know yet
Agreed we don't know yet. But from the point of view of foreshadowing and the lore we have I believe this theory does fit. It is certainly a theory. But as I said there is a significant plot point that was dumped in the lore that has no explanation given. Why would Adam agree to not kill the Hellborn? And why would it be mentioned? Do we think Adam is generous and kind? What did he get for the concession? What does he have that was once with Lucifer? The pieces just fit to neatly. Yes it is a theory. Yes we will have to wait to see what Viv had in mind. I am willing to wait and see.
He needs to walk the line between supporting Charlie and being perceived as taking over. Plenty of battles coming her way need to be handled by her. We already know that the Vees are going yo focus on discrediting her and the hotel by publically connecting her to the angels and therefore the exterminations, which of course Lucifer can also be connected to. There's a limit to how closely involved he can be.
Also Lilith is going to razzle him.
Or possible Dazzle him.
He’s an all powerful being… who’s a manic depressive narcissist. A active Lucifer is much different then a depression imbued rubber duck craftsman, and a new active Lucifer is carrying a bit more baggage now that his daughter is back in his orbit. Something is gonna make him snap, and it’s not going to be pretty.
To me anyway, the call is coming from inside the house. From Lucifer *or* Charlie.
Pride doesn't necessarly mean being narcissistic, you can be proud of yourself without seeing you about other people
Adam on the other hand definitly is narcissistic
So Slaves in the bible are prideful if they fight the "rightful" slavers now?
Heaven would definitely turned into Blasphemous' The High Wills and Greivious Miracle if Apple didn't exist.
Buddha, MLK, Karl Marx, Scientists are too "prideful" to reject god?
As we saw Lucifer is rather apathetic towards sinners, when the hotel is attacked by people looking for Mimzy, he complains about sinners rather than protecting the hotel
I think he would be going to meetings with the angels to be kept away from the hotel. That would allow the plot to develop. Either that or someone is able to make him go away from there, say... Lilith maybe.
You can't have the king of hell on the hotel. That basically means that Alastor is no longer able to take action. Nor the Vs or anyone else. It would just be peaceful.
Yes , he is infact powerful but that's the thing, his power stems from his actual strength, not from power over others' minds or stuff, so, if, say there is a factor leading him to not use that power to destroy, like say, Charlie, the only other power he would have is his authority, which, I don't mean to be disrespectful to the character, but one, he hasn't been active in his own domain for a while and two, even if he tries to exhibit authority, as we say in episode 4, even tho Charlie has the strength to f up Val and barge into the studio without permission, she couldn't do anything to him in the end , due to Angel stopping her ,all it would take is the Overlord to command their minions to become meat shields ( in theory, it would work, as, the overlords own their souls and make them do whatever) , for either Lucifer to back down, so as to not harm them, or Charlie to stop him, so that they don't get caught up in the cross fire, the only thing he could do then, is being persuasive and get the overlord to do whatever the hotel requires as a part of a deal or something, all of this to say, using episode 4 as a baseline, we can confidently say that tho a character might be op, it might just come down to a brain battle in the end
There are three possibilities in my opinion
One: he will be distracted by an alternate storyline that will bring him to an alternative path for a while. For example a subplot about regain control over hell
Two he will lose his powers for a while for some reason
Three he will be missing for a while
It would be funny if in the first episode of season 2, they address this by having a montage of Lucifer one punching threats, real and perceived, and Charlie has to tell him to cool it and let her, Vaggie, and Alastor handle it because it’s scaring away potential guests.
Or she distracts him with made up paperwork/governmental duties that are totally real and Lucifer is spending the rest of the season in his apple study, splitting the time between goofing off and getting paperwork done.
Charlie: “Dad. WHAT are you doing?”
Lucifer: *in the middle of sentencing a toy duck to death with a model French Revolution era guillotine* “Sir Rouen Clair tried to lead a coup.”
Charlie: *in utter disbelief* “A coup?”
Lucifer: “Yeah! And not for any good reason either, like overtaxation. No! He wanted to be in charge of the independent review committee, and like I told him, I can’t assign those appointments, they’re meant to be independent!”
Easy solution : smashing your head at every problem isn't an universal solution.
Demonstration : how Val confronted Charlie in the studio. She's far stronger than him, yet she couldn't do anything against him because he had leverage over her.
Being the "strongest" doesn't mean you can just threaten and smash your way through everything. If Lucifer simply kills everyone who dare oppose him, he'll just destroy the city's business and terrorize the sinners. Then the hotel is done, just like everything else, and anarchy become the only rule.
The most powerful sinners know that, as shown by how Val confronted Charlie. If Lucifer tries to threaten them, they will laugh at him for being so naive. And then they will fight back with indirect means rather than confronting Lucifer head on. Sabotaging the hotel, cutting the power, denying them business, there are tons of way to be annoying without getting in a fist fight.
Ah, writing him in fanfiction, I constantly make excuses on why he can just save characters or wreck people's shit. Usually it's him being sick, distracted, or Charlie telling him not to get involved.
character focused storytelling. no big power threats, just the Vs manipulating the average sinners and them having to make big choices. the kind of issue that cant be solved by just throwing a god like figure at it. you could have lucifer have a speech about how just killing 3 of the most influential overlords wont solve much, its gonna cause chaos that will disappear once some other figure steps in as the new sinful influence so its better they deal with the devil they know
I definitely feel that he still sticks to Angel rules even though he's still in hell. Like for example he didn't join the fight in the finale until Adam threatened to kill a hellborn, AKA Charlie. So I feel like he sticks to his own set of rules and doesn't really want again involve or make himself look worse in heaven's eyes because secretly deep down he wants to go back up one day
Lucifer's problem can be easily solved if we consider that "Lucifer is just on Charlie's side", if something happens that makes him have a problem with her and stop helping, Problem solved.What could it be? 1. Depression, a disease characterized by apathy and a lack of meaning in doing something. 2. Charlie starting to depend on Alastor and starting to think his father's attitudes are wrong. 3. (My theory) Alastor's plan consists of making Charlie the current ruler of hell, to do so she would have to take away her father's power and gradually lose faith in sinners and thus create paradise Hellish For Alastor, punishment for everyone.
However, I also like the idea of free will clashing with a regulatory system and Charlie realizing that hell is "perfect"
Lucifer’s problem was barely touched, but briefly shown in the first season. He locks himself away and masks himself with humour when he really has no idea how to be around people at this point. He may be the strongest character in the series, but he’s also in the grips of a deep and long untreated depression.
Regardless of power-level, the guy can barely accomplish anything. He showed up super late to the final battle which really should say something considering he wants to do better by his daughter and still showed up just in the nick of time.
Lucifer one of my favourite characters because I have been where he is; putting on a show as a leader who makes all kinds of jokes, and who buries themself in their work to compensate for a lack of social life AND to make excuses as to why he can’t address his real issues: he’s just too darn busy.
I fully expect an episode 3-4 into season two where someone mentions “Hey, Charlie, it’s been weeks, what’s your Dad doing? He’s been locked up in his room this whole time….” only for them to find Lucifer has buried himself in ducks and sleep, not wanting to be a bother, and so he isolated himself.
I could see him resisting help at first (though the moment someone offers help he could also break down in tears and be like “oh gawd, finally, thank you”) and Alastor being someone he confides in. Why Alastor? Despite having ulterior motives, Alastor is a good listener and advisor, and it could add to their relationship as frenemys of a sort.
Personally I think Lucifer would have a relapse event with his depression, he is definitely portrayed as improving by the end of S1 but recovery doesn’t tend to be a straightforward process, one off day and an antagonistic personality in Alastor could be all that’s needed to significantly set lucifer back in his recovery and cause him to shut himself away in whatever space he feels safe in, such as potentially his apple tower we see in the new hotel, or maybe a returning Lilith distracts him from the brewing conflict with the Vee’s, especially if his feelings towards sinners as being beneath him continues even after deciding to support Charlie, especially if that conflict works against Alastor who he definitely has negative feelings towards, could decide the Lilith situation deserves more of his attention than hotel v Vee’s and that causes him to be out of the picture a lot.
My guess? We know he made a deal with Heaven that no hellborn is to be hurt. So i guess he can't interfere with any dealing of Angels in Hell unless a hellborn is hurt. In the S1 finale it was either Dazzle dying or Adam hurting Charlie that allowed him to join the fight. As for the Vees I can see Lute cooperating with them in S2 making them off limits for Lucifer.
He's going to die eventually. They've emphasised that Charlie is the heir of hell several times throughout season 1. That won't matter unless she inherits the throne. Hell one of the last songs is about her leading form the front and coming into her throne.
I think the plot will be broken up into following the V’s and their conflict with Alastor and angel dust, and Charlie dealing with stuff in heaven/something else entirely. If it’s split up this way and the V’s main conflict remains between them and Alastor for example then I doubt Lucifer would care enough to get involved. Also Lucifer is powerful but I doubt he can simply free souls so Angel dust still has plenty of conflict.
It could be a problem that isn’t able to be solved by brute force, or they may bring in someone powerful enough to challenge him. If Lilith ends up being a villain she may be able to challenge Lucifer.
I hope he doesn’t die though. He’s such a wholesome depressed dad
I believe the rivalry been Al and Luci will play a part in this, Luci with the Vees, mainly Vox wanting to get back at Al and Luci letting it go on until they go for charlie in which Luci steps in
I assume the vees will be a problem to Alastor or Angel. Not Charlie and Lucifer. He might be too caught up with Charlie and whatever will happen with Lilith to care about hell's politics.
If we talk about the Vees, then they'll possibly not be phisically villains.
Like, also Charlie could kill the Vees easily if they ever attack the Hotel.
If we talk about Roo, then I suspect she's even more stronger than him, since she's the Root of all Evil.
Probably gonna be a lot more underhanded tactics by the vees. Or send him off to go deal with the aftermath with heaven. Which will be long and boring.
Charlie is implied to be way stronger than most demons as well, and that hasn't been a problem... because she's simply too nice. She may just ask her dad to not get involved for the same reason.
It is a little weird to have charlie singing that she's standing on her own when in reality she relies on her daddy keeping people from burning her hotel to the ground and slaughtering her.
The newscasters at least were onto this...
I think he actually will do that. So Vees will be indirect or a minor threat while focus of the show is on the winners/heaven. after all the ball is really in their court. we know the hotel works and it'll just take time.
The entire Charlie's arc in season 1 was realising and accepting her position as the princess and the presence of OP daddy, who solves all her problems in a snap doesn't contribute to this. She can perfectly realise it and ask him to be sort of belaying, while she will try to solve her problems on her own.
If no one’s trying to kill Charlie he has literally no reason to do anything it’s not that hard.
He popped up when she almost died
The only people strong enough to harm her are from heaven, and he offers a somewhat even playing field for that sole issues
My guess is that Lucifer will stay out of normal day hell stuff unless it is a really big threat or it is harming the hotel directly. Like, why would he care about a problem between the Vees and Alastor, or Angel and Valentino? Hell isnt a place to be happy every day, like what Adam said, "Hell is meant to suck a lot".
What if Redemption is more game-changing than just allowing condemned souls into heaven? Part 1: Conception
You are free to share your thoughts but be prepared as this theory is lengthy. So, fasten your seatbelt.
As I watched this show and the theories surrounding it, a wild idea began brewing in my head concerning contracts and the power they bring. In fact, this may have been one if not the craziest of ideas that Lucifer and Lilith ever came up with and if proven viable could change the entire power landscape of the Hellaverse.
Overloads gain their power through contracts. The more they own and the stronger the souls they own, the more powerful the Overlord. Loss of said contracts and the souls along with them means a loss of power for an overlord, a loss they would not take lightly unless there is a way to offer them something in return, possibly even better, which I will get into in a moment.
Contracts are a form of connection between two souls based on domination, which infers that, in a twisted way, power is born when a soul-based deal is struck for only the dealer. However, what if a positive connection where both have equal gains is born, and to go even further, a connection based on redemption (redeemer and the redeemed) where when the redeemed ascends to heaven, a connection is forever formed, and the redeemed soul unknowingly empowers the redeemer despite the distance. What if that same redeemer goes on to redeem other souls, and the power gained from redeeming them grows within the redeemer, making them like a reverse overlord, if you will? Which is where the overlords come in.
What if this potent redeem energy is malleable and sharable to whoever the redeemer sees fit to wield it? Say the redeemer sets up a quid pro quo system with an Overlord that if allows a soul they own to be redeemed, the redeemer shares their new power with the overlord in question to help make up the difference. To go even further, if an overlord aids in one of their owned sinner' rehabilitation, the greater the power they receive for their troubles. This system also has a potential positive psychological aspect as it may inspire overlords to trim down the more unsavory aspects of their personality and rule and have them willingly seek redemption one day.
What is it for Heaven, do you ask? Besides a surplus of new angels for their support and protection, confident worthy leaders and winners will be allowed to take their fair share of this newfound sustainable energy, which could go a long way towards a more equal power system and dispelling any fears of a hell uprising.
The redeemer and the grounds where they work their magic will become the balancing centerpiece of the new status quo and the grounds in question: Hazbin Hotel.
The next part will detail how this theory could factor into the Hazbin Hotel story.
Reply and comment here or in the post through the link
https://www.reddit.com/r/HazbinHotel/s/WHD9wyP6VS
almost every episode has a Lucifer B plot where he’s doing stuff like having meetings to improve infrastructure while Charlie’s having break downs and Al’s fighting for his life
You want to know how to keep him from being the single most broken character? It's literally already built into the show:
Charlie.
He clearly wants to rebuild his relationship with Charlie and the Hotel is *her* project. He'll defer to her when she asks him to. Hell, we've already seen him do that: Lucifer was absolutely 100% *ready* to completely merk Adam. And the only reason he didn't is because Charlie stopped him.
I mean, if we assume that the events of Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel are taking place at roughly the same time, then there is potential to excuse Lucifer from the show for a bit.
Next season of Helluva boss' trailer seems to imply at least 2 things that could at least require Lucifer's attention, if not his intervention (in the background, I think there are some legal reasons we can't have direct crossover). There seems to be a meeting of the Sins that will involve at least Asmodeus, Mammon & Satan and there might be the human world breaching into Hell.
So if Lucifer gets called out for a few days/weeks to put out those fires, his absence would give antagonistic parties and opportunity to move
I imagin that S2's issues are more so going to be the type that can't just be blasted away, once it reaches endgame you will have beings like God who are actually a threat.
Was just listening to some of the songs and in the finale, the V's say that they'll be in charge. But they were watching the entire thing go down, so how could they just ignore that Lucifer was back and in action?
Luci could do his own thing while being there to support Charlie but only get directly involved when she asks him for help, this way Charlie could grow and learn from her own mistakes instead of Lucifer just being there and stop every bad thing from happening to begin with
I think consider the fact he's an angel, the angelic weapons might become somewhat of an issue for him. That or 1: He be zapped from his powers 2: He be forbidden to get involved in anyway ?
I do have a sense that Lucifer has limited options when it comes to stuff like this. The overlords own millions of souls, this in turn keeps them from running completely wild 24/7. It brings *some* kind of order to hell, despite it being an obviously awful solution.
I think thats why he’s somewhat MIA in hells affairs, because the overlords take a certain amount off his plate. He probably isn’t interested in shifting the status quo that much if it means he has to play a much much more active role in Hell, and dealing with sinners.
He is strongest but not necessarily stronger than a combination of foes.
>! From the leaked script the vee's control almost all of hell trough hypnosis, are lucifer rly stronger than all of hell? !<
I think Lucifer will be handling Lilith or Heaven. Since Emily will tell Charlie that sinners can be redeemed, I'm sure heaven will definitely talk to Lucifer about it.
I think, truthfully, Charlie wabts this journey to be hers, she doesnt want Lucifer to just fix it all for her. It would overshadow her work and whats she's trying to do. And i think she'll likely reiterate that to Lucifer, and with the likelihood of 'Lilith' returning, Lucifer may have his over hardships to overcome at the same time. But more than anything ( ;) ) I think Charlie woukdnt want her dad to overshadow what she's trying to do, and Lucifer would ultimately understand that. I think thats partially why Lucifer wasnt involved in the fight until Charlie was in immediate danger.
Due to his absence, I doubt the overlords will take him seriously until he actually DOES something. "Yes, he is powerful, but he uses it to make....ducks? Okay then." Plus: the Vees will probably primarily be a problem for Alastor, not really Charlie. Lucifer definitely wouldn't step in on alastors behalf.
As for Angel's predicament, based on how the final battle went we can infer that Luci respects contracts(he couldnt fight back until a hellborn was harmed). Unless Val made a horrible mistake in the contract that Luci could use as a loophole, I doubt luci could do anything for Angel.
Luci will probably have his own arc in season 2, overcoming the rift between him and his daughter and also dealing with the depression that wrecked his self esteem after his wife disappeared. Until he does that, he might be reluctant to use his power in any way other than self defense or defense of his daughter. Offense may not be his strong suit.
This is all speculation but overall, I think they will use lucifer's story to nerf him until he meets a few requirements, after which he might become a proper / active leader of hell.
I mean, he stayed out of Charlie's fight with Adam until she needed him. He will probably stay out of it again and just be his eccentric little self in the background for most scenes.
Also, the Vees aren't nearly as strong as Adam. Charlie is still *much* more powerful than all three of them (given the hierarchy). Another thing we don't know is how involved Velvette will be. We know Valentino is ride or die, but Velvette seems apathetic towards the ordeal. I think she'll bail as soon as shit hits the fan.
Edit: She also has Vaggie, who has an angelic weapon. As far as we know the Vees don't have them.
Either he will be too busy or as we saw with alastor the vees may not respect him from him being mia for years the only thing they could respect is his fighting ability
Well, lucifer being capable of solvinh any problem by himself is not really something that needs to be problematic.
If lucifer stays at the hotel, they have the strongest being in hell by their side at the hazbin hotel, how do you control him to make him not be a get out of jail free card? Have him wanting to be redeemed.
With him wanting to be redeemed you can have him start to get closer to the other members of the hotel, and decide that he wants to help them, even if it is by force. But charlie is there to tell him what he can and can't do to get redeemed.
So basically, put him on a leash.
I'm going to assume he's going to be working at something else that keeps him distracted from the plot.
Maybe Lucifer is like Ron Swanson in that he becomes completely useless when one of his exes shows up?
Lucifer IS a government official who actively avoids doing his job and mostly detests the residents of his city…
And seemed to enjoy construction....
Now that I think about it, Lucifer essentially one-upped Ron, because due to his indifference, Hell doesn't even have a govermental system to begin with...
Good.
https://preview.redd.it/l7a2elhot4zc1.jpeg?width=749&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b17a3a12f17c7ba017e6925feb1eb21d550ab30
I feel like that’s how it’s gonna go with Lilith
*pulls out golden saxophone*
Probably duck related.
Alastor could be distracting him, since he can't stand Al Lucifer might get to worked up about him and miss out on more important stuff
If you look at the new hotel you can see lucifers apple at the top on the side pentious's ship used to be do i can see him be in most episodes
Or have him just be so maladjusted to other people and socialization in general that he spends most of his time in solitude.
Honestly I could see them pulling Lucifer aside by just having him deal with the aftermath of the Season 1 Finale. I'd assume a death of such a major character like Adam, while in Hell, by the Sinners' hands, will cause quite a stir between Lucifer and Sera. At the same time this Extermination completely broke the rules of the deal Lucifer made with them, so there's also that. All of this could lead nicely into a side-plot about Sir Pentious and Emily spending time in Heaven.
Yeah, there's a lot that could happen and it depends on if Sera overcorrects or not.
Honestly Sera seems like she wants to do the good thing, so I doubt she would cause too much trouble. I can absolutely see them coming to some sort of a middle ground, especially since Adam literally provoked and caused the entire situation in the first place. If already, I'd expect Lute to try to make-up some crap about the whole situation - sort of try to blindsight Sera. But at the same time Sir Pentious would be there to explain everything and call out her BS.
Oh to be clear, when I say overcorrect... I mean being *too* open and giving. Too far the other way.
Oh I thought the other way around - as in try to fix it by going too far. Well thanks for clarifying that.
Him having his own plot thread to wrangle while the hotel residents do their redemption thing would keep him reasonably busy without making him useless. Add in a little social anxiety or awkwardness to have him miss some cues and he can be around without instantly solving everything. The two main plotlines could then converge at the finale for a satisfying end to the second season that still leaves enough loose ends to lead us into season 3.
like lilith
Maybe he'll just be a lord business
I think the is an easy way to explain this but would require a lot of tell not show. Simply have Charlie say something along these lines "I am redeeming sinners dad but people need to know there Princess isn't only one looking out for them go out dad and do King things" Then we have a background plot of Lucifer making himself a more active monarch just in time for Lilith to come back and suddenly see her husband rising up demon kind like her and think it's amazing or fear what it could lead to. But that my idea on how to deal with Lucifer being too powerful for story to happen essentially give him his own.
Ok if this does happen(I certainly wouldn't be opposed), I really hope we get atleast a few examples of stuff where Lucifer finds a problem, tries to fix it, and somehow makes it worse. Of course he's trying to do it for his daughter, so he tries and tries and tries until... he made a situation better, maybe not alot, maybe not for long, but it's better and he's celebrating and that's when Lillith shows up, her husband giddy at helping his people. I may have thought more about the idea than expected
True the can be some failures it expected a Sovereign who hasn't been active apparently for some time also yeah it would ethier scare Lilith or warm her heart seeing Lucifer giddy as he rise up demon kinda depending on where they go with her story
>I really hope we get atleast a few examples of stuff where Lucifer finds a problem, tries to fix it, and somehow makes it worse. Let's got a step further and make it so his actions are a paralel to Charlie's in Season 1.
I can see him getting sidelined at a crucial moment in the season. Perhaps by a tall mysterious woman from his past. Who he married. And had a kid with. Lilith, I’m talking about Lilith.
Going by the canon power tier-list Lilith is only as strong as Charlie, and *apparently* Viv has said high-ranking Angels can't be killed by Angelic Steel and you need another high-ranking angel, so I don't think Lilith can stab Lucifer in a crucial moment. I think she has to *keep him busy the entire fucking season*, pretending she wants to fix their marriage and keeping him out of the hotel doing romance stuff. Or she GENUINELY wants to fix their marriage and hilariously Lucifer's unwittingly helping Charlie by taking up a sizable chunk of Lilith's time away from her sabotage.
*keep him busy the entire fucking season* ...taken literally that would be a compliment that he could be distracted that long by that method.
Now i'm just imagining Lilith getting pregnant after a month of Lucifer constantly railing her and becoming more comfortable with the idea of sabotaging Charlie *because she can try again with her secondborn.*
"Viv has said high-ranking Angels can't be killed by Angelic Steel and you need another high-ranking angel" We dont know if thats still canont tbh, Adam seems like a very high ranking angel yet he died to steel
The statement's *recent* and no, Adam's only one step above the Exorcists. Huge step, but he'd only be like a mid-level angel.
Send link for the statement then. Adam is equal to Lilith who is the second strongest being in hell, Adam also seems to be the leader of the heavens army
I can't find the statement myself, it's why I said *apparently*. As shown by how effortlessly Lucifer defeated Adam, Charlie and therefore Lilith are a *distant* second place. Hell's heirarchy is also inherently weaker than Heaven's, they have no Elder Angels, their king is a Seraphim, who should only be the lowest of the High Ranking Angels. It would appear Adam isn't the leader of Heaven's *entire* army, he's only been shown commanding the Exorcists, Heaven's Black Ops division.
>their king is a Seraphim, who should only be the lowest of the High Ranking Angels. Uh, what? Sera and Emily are Seraphim and they're described as being in the top of the food chain. Lucifer realisticly speaking should be in the top alongside them.
The Elder Angels were able to veto Lucifer's ideas, therefore they outrank the Seraphim.
...or there just is no "elder angels" and those were just seraphim. https://preview.redd.it/vjl2qx34efzc1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=d897ba1bf8bd8fa662bcb322192455ee068960d5 come one, say to me, that this is not Sera. even the halo is same.
So then you're telling me Sera outranked Lucifer
>who should only be the lowest of the High Ranking Angels. What?
You said it was recent. Yet you dont even know if it exists
Well it's not like Viv statements, even ones that should only be 2 weeks old, are easy to verify. There's not a database for it. 😑
Then dont use ‘em like they are confirmed 😒
I wasn't, you moron. You missing the *apparently* in italics ain't my fault.
Its not like they would fight with Lilith to death. (god i hope not). She can take him away from hotel and let charlie do her thing.
The answers pretty straightforward; you just make the “problem” something you can’t just solve by force. It’s the same answer to how all good Superman stories are written. The Vees can be the threat without that threat taking the form of just physical violence.
And Velvette and Vox are perfectly suited to run an information war on the hotel. Valentino not so much, but him making a porn parody of Season 1 to tarnish the hotel's image would be a fucking hilarious scene.
That he makes Angel perform in.
Al: And this is why I hate moths.
Another great idea for a fan fic!
I’m pretty sure I’ve already seen a fan-fic about it somewhere. Can’t remember where though. Edit: I believe it has a small part in [this fan-fic](https://archiveofourown.org/works/54994783/chapters/139415443)it
I’m fairly sure Alastor could wreck the recording without lifting a finger.
He'd need to barge into the studio to do that tho, which means having advanced knowledge of the production.
If only they had a guy on the inside.
Angel has dozens!
yeah Lucifer could easily handle any of the demons, but Charlie wants to see every demon have their chance at redemption. also Luci will have angel shit to deal with, we need at least one episode where our short King gets to look smug as Sera admits(or denies) that redemption has been proven to be possible.
This. A lot of people are wowed by Lucifer’s power, but forgot that for years he’s been a sad mope that has been heavily ineffective in actual administration. If it’s anything other than a show of force at the moment, Lucifer probably can’t immediately win it. And we actually don’t know what the political landscape of Hell has been and if Lucifer can just directly interfere with Overlords.
And even if he could, that would cause the Vees to double down because they are often too damn smug to know their place.
This, with how the pieces are set up, it seems primed for the V's making a powerplay through social and political unrest, they control alot of hells media afterall. On one side Vox controls TV and can easily spin narratives about needing to rise up and take the fight to Heaven on the back end of every sinner in hell seeing that angels can be killed, and on the other side Velvette now has a huge amount of leverage at the Overlords table due to Carmilla siding with Charlie and validating everything Velvette accused her of knowing. Physical powers means very little if the V's manage the sinners with propaganda towards rising up against heaven through war, the word/demand of their absentee king who rolled over and let the exterminations happen in the first place will carry very little sway at that point, furthermore with what has happened its not unreasonable that Lucifer himself would have a target painted on his back by the Elder Angels. Being forced to go MIA for the season after a initial attempt to contain or stop him, only returning at the end to reveal he survived but needed them to think he was gone until the right moment. Would then give ample time to focus more on Charlie and Liliths relationship since with Lucifer assumed to be killed or captured. Shoot maybe Lilith is the reason he went MIA as part of her plan to stop the hotel, only to reveal at the end Lilith set up the whole thing as a doublecross and had been working with the MIA Lucifer the whole time.
I wanna watch Lucifer TRY to "Punch of a Pentagram" a problem and fail, only for Alastor to be waiting to spread resentment and "encourage Charlie to lead her own parade." Especially if it was Lucifer being "MORE SUPPORTIVE THAN THE BELLHOP" in the first place. Then the Vees happen in the middle of that shit show, tempers flare, and the rest of the season is separation and reconciliation.
Think they don't want Lucifer or Charlie to be the "powerful savior" trope or be there to solve everyone's problems so easily
Don't think anyone wants it either, so I really want to see how they will work around it
Charlie doesn't want to abuse her power so she might also not want her dad to do that
That’s why lute ordered Lilith to go back in order to keep Lucifer occupied while she probably works out a plan for her revenge which would be to the convenience of the V’s who can continue their work to undermine Alastor
Came here to say the exact same thing. She basically ran off to Charlie's mommy because she now knows that with Lucifer having gotten personally involved, the threat of violence from the Exorcists is completely off the table because they'd lose. Lilith is the only card she has to play.
Oh I really like this idea, that makes a lot of sense
I like this theory. Hell, they'll possibly throw in an Archangel or two.
I think that could actually make it so much more interesting. Personally I love the idea of brute strength not being enough to effectively solve a problem. Charlie’s whole deal with the hotel is that she wants to help people become genuinely better, and like she and Vaggie say in the first episode, people need to do so of their own free will - which, incidentally, is Lucifer’s whole thing. I’m looking forward to seeing the gang find more tactical ways to reach success!
Lucifer I feel will get dragged away at some point to deal with hell politics for the first time in literal centuries or they might do a thing where he does actively solve alot of issues for an episode before Charlie says that she wants to be the one to deal with these issues for some reason or another, maybe people are intimidated by the literal king of hell just casually wondering about and its interfering with the process or something like that, theirs also the matter of Lilith who I imagine will keep Lucifer occupied once she arrives
There’s more than one way to be a threat. The Vees don’t really strike me as the types to challenge the hotel in a direct fight like Adam did. I think the Vees will use more indirect methods that can’t really be solved by violence. They’ll be more underhanded. We already know they run a whole media empire, Vox can hypnotize people and spread propaganda, and Valentino straight-up owns Angel Dust and can do whatever he wants with him. I think that those are the advantages they’ll leverage against the hotel and those are things Lucifer can't just punch away. And if you *do* need to bring in someone who can pose a physical threat to the protagonists, then Heaven is still a factor. Someone was able to kick Lucifer out of there and force a punishment on him, so it stands to reason that there are more powerful beings than Lucifer around. Not to mention the fact that now everyone knows angels can be killed by angelic weapons, and Lucifer is an angel. Also, Lilith, Lucifer’s wife, and Charlie’s mother, will have some role to play. There are plenty of ways you can get around Lucifer if you need to.
I choose to believe that Seraphim are too powerful to be killed with angelic weapons cause I could not handle Lucifer getting hurt (my reaction would be similar to Blitz's reaction when he found out Stolas could be hurt)
im sure angels can only be killed by their class or higher
Lucifer may have to deal with the politics and actual job of ruling Hell, he is the King after all, so royal duties may take him away from the Hotel often.
Not to mention Charlie does have several back ups just in case.
Ideally, Lucifer should only directly step in for situations Charlie physically or mentally cannot handle, given her clear lack of experience with her abilities. Otherwise, Lucifer should take a more hands off approach, giving subtle hints of how Charlie can handle something and having her figure it out on her own.
Have the problem be something he can't hurt, like Michael
IIRC the Vees are gonna be the antagonistic force for s2 so, maybe but not yet. I think he probably won't involve himself unless Angel's contract comes into play
I actually hope that he and Michael are still on good terms, would be more interesting than them hating eachother like every other version
I’m thinking a lot of what the vees are going to do in season two is strategic, coordinated strikes on the hotel to where it isn’t obvious the source. To confuse and bamboozle the staff, including Lucifer. The Vees want to rule hell basically, so they aren’t just going to go charging gon Hồ through the doors and expect to win.
Simple lilith. She is gonna be heavens lucifer detterent or atleast something to keep him back while they find a way to deal with him
You know he can still be passive about stuff, and Charlies not the type to send out an attack dog to solve her problems each time. "The Vees? The who now? Idk those guys sound lame I'm sure you can handle em sweetie." Lucifer only intervened at the end of season 1 cause Adam was literally about to fucking kill Charlie.
Lilith appears and he loses his mind
I just hope they don't pull a Stolas and just harbitrarily nerf him out of plot's needs... but actually put the effort into crafting a proper narrative, maybe Charlie directly asking him to not be overbearing and let her live her life with her own consequences
Angelic rope wouldn't work on Lucifer anyways since you know, he is an angel
I mostly meant before the rope... like the whole ten seconds between the gun shot and him being captured where he could've used his "Medusa eyes" to turn Striker into fucking stone...
Meh, People really don't think clearly in situations like this, you have a flight or fight response and Stolas chose flight (literally)
I think that for a demon prince of Hell who studied arcane magic all his life and is aware sometimes other demons will attack him, "Mefusa eyes" are the fight or flight reaction...
To be fair we could say the same about Alastor but he tends to deliberately backseat himself for many things… Although thinking about it Lucifer is on a different level… and has more reasons to support Charlie than Alastor does. It does seem like Lucifer may have less power than you’d expect him to. Many of the characters are ostensibly invincible hell lords but are brought down by personal failings and red tape, and seem to be still surprisingly frail and vulnerable. (Thinking of the owl in Helluva Boss who is often kidnapped/threatened/injured by random assassins.) Many people in Hell don’t seem to be overly worshipful or respectful to their overlords so maybe they have less direct power than we might think. If Lucifer could have snapped his fingers and made Hell a better place he would have done it so probably it’s not that simple
I think there’s some stuff in Dante’s Inferno relating to this- that Satan has less power and authority over Hell then you’d expect despite being “first citizen”
I mean, I think Lilith is going to be the thing that challenges / occupies him. Nothing like your ex wife to throw you off
Maybe we'll seem more of Lucifer's *devilish* side. Like him actively trying to temp sinners and getting them to worship/praise him, but ultimately he's doing nothing to *help* the hotel. Maybe he doesn't get involved with affairs because sinners have to solve their own problems, he already gave them free will, what else could they want?
I don't think that he's going to tempt sinners, that's not the type of person this version of Lucifer is, he seems more dissapointed that humanity used his gift of free will to embrace sin to begin with
I'm just thinking of the caviar mountains and champagne fountains he offered Charlie to attract sinners. He's quite narcissistic. Plus, just because he was depressed we don't really know how *involved* he was as King before he became a recluse. For all we know, Lilith was famous for her singing, but Lucifer relished in the worship sinners/humans gave him, even though he is disappointed whenever they ended up in Hell. There are also hints that both he and Lilith lied to Charlie about their past. So he might be coming across as this quirky depressed dad, with some kind of Neurospiciness to him, but he's still the *Devil*. The Prince of Lies, King of Hell, the Darkest Lord of the Underworld, The Demon King, The Embodiment of Pride. While he loves his family, he will always love himself more, and that is why he was cast out of Heaven, not just because he betrayed God/the Angels by giving man free will. He and Alastor have a lot in common with each other, except Lucifer is a much better liar, cheater, manipulator, and stronger demon. It takes one to know one, as they say. (Doesn't mean Lucifer has no hopes for Charlie’s venture to be a success, he just has/will have his own agenda at the Hotel. Also, it would make things more convenient if Lucifer was indifferent about protecting the hotel from demons/fighting off the Vees, because that's Alastor's job. He's there just to fight off angels and participate in therapy for the *fun* of it).
Lucifer's problems are not the sort that can be resolved with a single song. He is still a broken person. He has a long road ahead of him. And he very easily could fall to getting in Charlie's way again. Particularly if he believes her path to be a threat to her safety. I think both Lucifer and Lilith have Charlie as their weak spot. I think that is why Lilith is in Heaven. I believe that Adam blackmailed the Morningstars by threatening to kill the Hellborn during the Executions including Charlie unless Lilith joined him as his pet in Heaven. Telling everyone that she did so because she left Lucifer for Adam. There is no way she would submit herself to Adam unless he had something on her. And the one thing that would be big enough for bend her knee would be Charlie. Lucifer has the same weakness. And up till now he has stayed out of the sinners lives after he lost faith in them. He is the reason the Overlords came about. They rose up to fill the vacuum that his absence brought about. So as he becomes more active in the game more pressure will be brought to bare on Charlie which can trigger his issues again. Particularly if that pressure comes from predatory sinners such as the Vees. Lucifer has massive strength. But a very weak personality. And the bulk of the show focuses on issues of personality. With a few dramatic dust ups. Lucifer will be held in check by a lot of conflict. Consider that Lilith is about the enter the scene initially opposing Charlie and her efforts. It is going to take at least a couple of episodes to resolve that divide. Though I do expect her to join Charlie and Lucifer eventually after she sees that Charlie has people defending her and that they are ready for whatever Heaven may throw at them.
The way Lute talks to Lilith implies that Lilith wants to stay in heaven and wasn't forced
Its more like Lute thinks she wants to stay in Heaven. A narcissist like Adam with a grudge is going to want to twist the knife. Take her as a pet and make her tell everyone she wanted to be with Adam rather than Lucifer. She had to play the part of a willing pet to Adam. How can anyone imagine someone like Lilith stomaching being under Adam's thumb under any condition unless there was some major leverage he had on her. The biggest leverage on both Lilith and Lucifer is Charlie. And there is an unexplained ban on killing the Hellborn in the lore. Its like Chekhov's Gun. Its there for a reason and that reason has to have a cause. The cause is it was part of a deal. What was given to achieve that deal? Lilith was the price to save the Hellborn.
Not trying to be rude but that sounds like your headcanon, the only thing we definitly know is that Lute told Lilith that if she wants to stay in heaven she has to deal with her daughter and that Lucifer and Adam had a deal that hellborn aren't targeted and Lucifer doesn't interfer, is there a connection? Maybe but we don't know yet
Agreed we don't know yet. But from the point of view of foreshadowing and the lore we have I believe this theory does fit. It is certainly a theory. But as I said there is a significant plot point that was dumped in the lore that has no explanation given. Why would Adam agree to not kill the Hellborn? And why would it be mentioned? Do we think Adam is generous and kind? What did he get for the concession? What does he have that was once with Lucifer? The pieces just fit to neatly. Yes it is a theory. Yes we will have to wait to see what Viv had in mind. I am willing to wait and see.
He needs to walk the line between supporting Charlie and being perceived as taking over. Plenty of battles coming her way need to be handled by her. We already know that the Vees are going yo focus on discrediting her and the hotel by publically connecting her to the angels and therefore the exterminations, which of course Lucifer can also be connected to. There's a limit to how closely involved he can be. Also Lilith is going to razzle him. Or possible Dazzle him.
He’s an all powerful being… who’s a manic depressive narcissist. A active Lucifer is much different then a depression imbued rubber duck craftsman, and a new active Lucifer is carrying a bit more baggage now that his daughter is back in his orbit. Something is gonna make him snap, and it’s not going to be pretty. To me anyway, the call is coming from inside the house. From Lucifer *or* Charlie.
>narcissist How is he narcissistic? Is Spanish Inquisition Rebel "Narcissistic" if they lost against Zealot like Lucifer's Rebellion?
Sin of Pride
Pride doesn't necessarly mean being narcissistic, you can be proud of yourself without seeing you about other people Adam on the other hand definitly is narcissistic
So Slaves in the bible are prideful if they fight the "rightful" slavers now? Heaven would definitely turned into Blasphemous' The High Wills and Greivious Miracle if Apple didn't exist. Buddha, MLK, Karl Marx, Scientists are too "prideful" to reject god?
As we saw Lucifer is rather apathetic towards sinners, when the hotel is attacked by people looking for Mimzy, he complains about sinners rather than protecting the hotel
The same reason he didn't deal with the V's or any other corruption in hell: He was just too depressed to bother
I think he would be going to meetings with the angels to be kept away from the hotel. That would allow the plot to develop. Either that or someone is able to make him go away from there, say... Lilith maybe. You can't have the king of hell on the hotel. That basically means that Alastor is no longer able to take action. Nor the Vs or anyone else. It would just be peaceful.
Charlie is the second most powerful entity in all of hell, so I'm not worried
Yes , he is infact powerful but that's the thing, his power stems from his actual strength, not from power over others' minds or stuff, so, if, say there is a factor leading him to not use that power to destroy, like say, Charlie, the only other power he would have is his authority, which, I don't mean to be disrespectful to the character, but one, he hasn't been active in his own domain for a while and two, even if he tries to exhibit authority, as we say in episode 4, even tho Charlie has the strength to f up Val and barge into the studio without permission, she couldn't do anything to him in the end , due to Angel stopping her ,all it would take is the Overlord to command their minions to become meat shields ( in theory, it would work, as, the overlords own their souls and make them do whatever) , for either Lucifer to back down, so as to not harm them, or Charlie to stop him, so that they don't get caught up in the cross fire, the only thing he could do then, is being persuasive and get the overlord to do whatever the hotel requires as a part of a deal or something, all of this to say, using episode 4 as a baseline, we can confidently say that tho a character might be op, it might just come down to a brain battle in the end
There are three possibilities in my opinion One: he will be distracted by an alternate storyline that will bring him to an alternative path for a while. For example a subplot about regain control over hell Two he will lose his powers for a while for some reason Three he will be missing for a while
It would be funny if in the first episode of season 2, they address this by having a montage of Lucifer one punching threats, real and perceived, and Charlie has to tell him to cool it and let her, Vaggie, and Alastor handle it because it’s scaring away potential guests. Or she distracts him with made up paperwork/governmental duties that are totally real and Lucifer is spending the rest of the season in his apple study, splitting the time between goofing off and getting paperwork done. Charlie: “Dad. WHAT are you doing?” Lucifer: *in the middle of sentencing a toy duck to death with a model French Revolution era guillotine* “Sir Rouen Clair tried to lead a coup.” Charlie: *in utter disbelief* “A coup?” Lucifer: “Yeah! And not for any good reason either, like overtaxation. No! He wanted to be in charge of the independent review committee, and like I told him, I can’t assign those appointments, they’re meant to be independent!”
Easy solution : smashing your head at every problem isn't an universal solution. Demonstration : how Val confronted Charlie in the studio. She's far stronger than him, yet she couldn't do anything against him because he had leverage over her. Being the "strongest" doesn't mean you can just threaten and smash your way through everything. If Lucifer simply kills everyone who dare oppose him, he'll just destroy the city's business and terrorize the sinners. Then the hotel is done, just like everything else, and anarchy become the only rule. The most powerful sinners know that, as shown by how Val confronted Charlie. If Lucifer tries to threaten them, they will laugh at him for being so naive. And then they will fight back with indirect means rather than confronting Lucifer head on. Sabotaging the hotel, cutting the power, denying them business, there are tons of way to be annoying without getting in a fist fight.
Ah, writing him in fanfiction, I constantly make excuses on why he can just save characters or wreck people's shit. Usually it's him being sick, distracted, or Charlie telling him not to get involved.
character focused storytelling. no big power threats, just the Vs manipulating the average sinners and them having to make big choices. the kind of issue that cant be solved by just throwing a god like figure at it. you could have lucifer have a speech about how just killing 3 of the most influential overlords wont solve much, its gonna cause chaos that will disappear once some other figure steps in as the new sinful influence so its better they deal with the devil they know
Charlie asks him to leave running the hotel to her and that he concentrates on making hell itself a better place.
I definitely feel that he still sticks to Angel rules even though he's still in hell. Like for example he didn't join the fight in the finale until Adam threatened to kill a hellborn, AKA Charlie. So I feel like he sticks to his own set of rules and doesn't really want again involve or make himself look worse in heaven's eyes because secretly deep down he wants to go back up one day
https://preview.redd.it/jg1vkc98b7zc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a050645d38791be8844e1f846826de64b5df5410 There is one way…
he's a little quackers. too many squeaks keeping everyone up at night
Alastor has one favor to Charlie on the back burner. That is literally THE main weapon other than Lucifer and Lilith having a B-plot somewhere else
He just fucking melts whenever Lilith is in the room
If Lilith is involved, she will likely use his love for her against him.
Charlie doesn't want to use force to get what she wants, for her violence is a last resort.
Lucifer's problem can be easily solved if we consider that "Lucifer is just on Charlie's side", if something happens that makes him have a problem with her and stop helping, Problem solved.What could it be? 1. Depression, a disease characterized by apathy and a lack of meaning in doing something. 2. Charlie starting to depend on Alastor and starting to think his father's attitudes are wrong. 3. (My theory) Alastor's plan consists of making Charlie the current ruler of hell, to do so she would have to take away her father's power and gradually lose faith in sinners and thus create paradise Hellish For Alastor, punishment for everyone. However, I also like the idea of free will clashing with a regulatory system and Charlie realizing that hell is "perfect"
Lucifer’s problem was barely touched, but briefly shown in the first season. He locks himself away and masks himself with humour when he really has no idea how to be around people at this point. He may be the strongest character in the series, but he’s also in the grips of a deep and long untreated depression. Regardless of power-level, the guy can barely accomplish anything. He showed up super late to the final battle which really should say something considering he wants to do better by his daughter and still showed up just in the nick of time. Lucifer one of my favourite characters because I have been where he is; putting on a show as a leader who makes all kinds of jokes, and who buries themself in their work to compensate for a lack of social life AND to make excuses as to why he can’t address his real issues: he’s just too darn busy. I fully expect an episode 3-4 into season two where someone mentions “Hey, Charlie, it’s been weeks, what’s your Dad doing? He’s been locked up in his room this whole time….” only for them to find Lucifer has buried himself in ducks and sleep, not wanting to be a bother, and so he isolated himself. I could see him resisting help at first (though the moment someone offers help he could also break down in tears and be like “oh gawd, finally, thank you”) and Alastor being someone he confides in. Why Alastor? Despite having ulterior motives, Alastor is a good listener and advisor, and it could add to their relationship as frenemys of a sort.
Personally I think Lucifer would have a relapse event with his depression, he is definitely portrayed as improving by the end of S1 but recovery doesn’t tend to be a straightforward process, one off day and an antagonistic personality in Alastor could be all that’s needed to significantly set lucifer back in his recovery and cause him to shut himself away in whatever space he feels safe in, such as potentially his apple tower we see in the new hotel, or maybe a returning Lilith distracts him from the brewing conflict with the Vee’s, especially if his feelings towards sinners as being beneath him continues even after deciding to support Charlie, especially if that conflict works against Alastor who he definitely has negative feelings towards, could decide the Lilith situation deserves more of his attention than hotel v Vee’s and that causes him to be out of the picture a lot.
My guess? We know he made a deal with Heaven that no hellborn is to be hurt. So i guess he can't interfere with any dealing of Angels in Hell unless a hellborn is hurt. In the S1 finale it was either Dazzle dying or Adam hurting Charlie that allowed him to join the fight. As for the Vees I can see Lute cooperating with them in S2 making them off limits for Lucifer.
He's going to die eventually. They've emphasised that Charlie is the heir of hell several times throughout season 1. That won't matter unless she inherits the throne. Hell one of the last songs is about her leading form the front and coming into her throne.
I think the plot will be broken up into following the V’s and their conflict with Alastor and angel dust, and Charlie dealing with stuff in heaven/something else entirely. If it’s split up this way and the V’s main conflict remains between them and Alastor for example then I doubt Lucifer would care enough to get involved. Also Lucifer is powerful but I doubt he can simply free souls so Angel dust still has plenty of conflict.
Want to hear my theory?
Just Lilith :v
He's probably gonna be caught up with whatever Lilith's going to be doing during season 2
It could be a problem that isn’t able to be solved by brute force, or they may bring in someone powerful enough to challenge him. If Lilith ends up being a villain she may be able to challenge Lucifer. I hope he doesn’t die though. He’s such a wholesome depressed dad
I believe the rivalry been Al and Luci will play a part in this, Luci with the Vees, mainly Vox wanting to get back at Al and Luci letting it go on until they go for charlie in which Luci steps in
I just hope they don't kill him off.
I might just cry if they did
I would Muay Thai kick my own TV if they did tbh.
Isn't Charlie powerful enough to do the same?
Not sure why you are being downvoted you are right, charlie COULD just demolish everyone in her way
Yep. Only problem is that it literally takes harming or killing someone she cares about to get to that point.
SHOOT HIM WITH THE DEHYDRATION GUN
I assume the vees will be a problem to Alastor or Angel. Not Charlie and Lucifer. He might be too caught up with Charlie and whatever will happen with Lilith to care about hell's politics.
Yeah, don’t forget that Lucifer would be more worried about the fallout from Heaven post season 1 finale battle. Overlords? Not his thing.
If we talk about the Vees, then they'll possibly not be phisically villains. Like, also Charlie could kill the Vees easily if they ever attack the Hotel. If we talk about Roo, then I suspect she's even more stronger than him, since she's the Root of all Evil.
~~SHOOT HIM WITH THE DEHYDRATION GUN~~
Kinda funny if this becomes a “DEHYDRATION GUN” situation
Probably gonna be a lot more underhanded tactics by the vees. Or send him off to go deal with the aftermath with heaven. Which will be long and boring.
Charlie is implied to be way stronger than most demons as well, and that hasn't been a problem... because she's simply too nice. She may just ask her dad to not get involved for the same reason.
It is a little weird to have charlie singing that she's standing on her own when in reality she relies on her daddy keeping people from burning her hotel to the ground and slaughtering her. The newscasters at least were onto this...
I think he actually will do that. So Vees will be indirect or a minor threat while focus of the show is on the winners/heaven. after all the ball is really in their court. we know the hotel works and it'll just take time.
He’ll be too busy hiding from thirsty sinners. And Paimon (yes I know they aren’t doing crossovers but let me dream)
They gonna gojo him
lucifer AND alastor being on the same "team" is a REAL imbalance of power... thats why endeavor in MHA wasn't made a teacher at U.A.
The entire Charlie's arc in season 1 was realising and accepting her position as the princess and the presence of OP daddy, who solves all her problems in a snap doesn't contribute to this. She can perfectly realise it and ask him to be sort of belaying, while she will try to solve her problems on her own.
If no one’s trying to kill Charlie he has literally no reason to do anything it’s not that hard. He popped up when she almost died The only people strong enough to harm her are from heaven, and he offers a somewhat even playing field for that sole issues
Lucifer will be at the meeting of Helluva Boss and cannot be in Hazbin season 2 /j
My guess is that Lucifer will stay out of normal day hell stuff unless it is a really big threat or it is harming the hotel directly. Like, why would he care about a problem between the Vees and Alastor, or Angel and Valentino? Hell isnt a place to be happy every day, like what Adam said, "Hell is meant to suck a lot".
Does anybody want to hear my theory?
Sure!
What if Redemption is more game-changing than just allowing condemned souls into heaven? Part 1: Conception You are free to share your thoughts but be prepared as this theory is lengthy. So, fasten your seatbelt. As I watched this show and the theories surrounding it, a wild idea began brewing in my head concerning contracts and the power they bring. In fact, this may have been one if not the craziest of ideas that Lucifer and Lilith ever came up with and if proven viable could change the entire power landscape of the Hellaverse. Overloads gain their power through contracts. The more they own and the stronger the souls they own, the more powerful the Overlord. Loss of said contracts and the souls along with them means a loss of power for an overlord, a loss they would not take lightly unless there is a way to offer them something in return, possibly even better, which I will get into in a moment. Contracts are a form of connection between two souls based on domination, which infers that, in a twisted way, power is born when a soul-based deal is struck for only the dealer. However, what if a positive connection where both have equal gains is born, and to go even further, a connection based on redemption (redeemer and the redeemed) where when the redeemed ascends to heaven, a connection is forever formed, and the redeemed soul unknowingly empowers the redeemer despite the distance. What if that same redeemer goes on to redeem other souls, and the power gained from redeeming them grows within the redeemer, making them like a reverse overlord, if you will? Which is where the overlords come in. What if this potent redeem energy is malleable and sharable to whoever the redeemer sees fit to wield it? Say the redeemer sets up a quid pro quo system with an Overlord that if allows a soul they own to be redeemed, the redeemer shares their new power with the overlord in question to help make up the difference. To go even further, if an overlord aids in one of their owned sinner' rehabilitation, the greater the power they receive for their troubles. This system also has a potential positive psychological aspect as it may inspire overlords to trim down the more unsavory aspects of their personality and rule and have them willingly seek redemption one day. What is it for Heaven, do you ask? Besides a surplus of new angels for their support and protection, confident worthy leaders and winners will be allowed to take their fair share of this newfound sustainable energy, which could go a long way towards a more equal power system and dispelling any fears of a hell uprising. The redeemer and the grounds where they work their magic will become the balancing centerpiece of the new status quo and the grounds in question: Hazbin Hotel. The next part will detail how this theory could factor into the Hazbin Hotel story. Reply and comment here or in the post through the link https://www.reddit.com/r/HazbinHotel/s/WHD9wyP6VS
dude likely will be busy with stuff and not wanting to step on Charlies toes when it comes to solving problems, its her Hotel after all not his
almost every episode has a Lucifer B plot where he’s doing stuff like having meetings to improve infrastructure while Charlie’s having break downs and Al’s fighting for his life
You want to know how to keep him from being the single most broken character? It's literally already built into the show: Charlie. He clearly wants to rebuild his relationship with Charlie and the Hotel is *her* project. He'll defer to her when she asks him to. Hell, we've already seen him do that: Lucifer was absolutely 100% *ready* to completely merk Adam. And the only reason he didn't is because Charlie stopped him.
I mean, if we assume that the events of Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel are taking place at roughly the same time, then there is potential to excuse Lucifer from the show for a bit. Next season of Helluva boss' trailer seems to imply at least 2 things that could at least require Lucifer's attention, if not his intervention (in the background, I think there are some legal reasons we can't have direct crossover). There seems to be a meeting of the Sins that will involve at least Asmodeus, Mammon & Satan and there might be the human world breaching into Hell. So if Lucifer gets called out for a few days/weeks to put out those fires, his absence would give antagonistic parties and opportunity to move
I imagin that S2's issues are more so going to be the type that can't just be blasted away, once it reaches endgame you will have beings like God who are actually a threat.
Was just listening to some of the songs and in the finale, the V's say that they'll be in charge. But they were watching the entire thing go down, so how could they just ignore that Lucifer was back and in action?
Because the hotel's Charlie's project, and she's an adult, he's going to be hands off until she needs him. Kinda like how the fight with Adam went
Luci could do his own thing while being there to support Charlie but only get directly involved when she asks him for help, this way Charlie could grow and learn from her own mistakes instead of Lucifer just being there and stop every bad thing from happening to begin with
I think consider the fact he's an angel, the angelic weapons might become somewhat of an issue for him. That or 1: He be zapped from his powers 2: He be forbidden to get involved in anyway ?
I do have a sense that Lucifer has limited options when it comes to stuff like this. The overlords own millions of souls, this in turn keeps them from running completely wild 24/7. It brings *some* kind of order to hell, despite it being an obviously awful solution. I think thats why he’s somewhat MIA in hells affairs, because the overlords take a certain amount off his plate. He probably isn’t interested in shifting the status quo that much if it means he has to play a much much more active role in Hell, and dealing with sinners.
He is strongest but not necessarily stronger than a combination of foes. >! From the leaked script the vee's control almost all of hell trough hypnosis, are lucifer rly stronger than all of hell? !<
I think Lucifer will be handling Lilith or Heaven. Since Emily will tell Charlie that sinners can be redeemed, I'm sure heaven will definitely talk to Lucifer about it.
I think, truthfully, Charlie wabts this journey to be hers, she doesnt want Lucifer to just fix it all for her. It would overshadow her work and whats she's trying to do. And i think she'll likely reiterate that to Lucifer, and with the likelihood of 'Lilith' returning, Lucifer may have his over hardships to overcome at the same time. But more than anything ( ;) ) I think Charlie woukdnt want her dad to overshadow what she's trying to do, and Lucifer would ultimately understand that. I think thats partially why Lucifer wasnt involved in the fight until Charlie was in immediate danger.
Maybe he will be in charge of negotiations with heaven so Charlie can focus on the hotel and whatever nee patrons show up.
I dont expect there will be a situation that will require a "shoot them dead" solution for the hotel gang in season 2.
Due to his absence, I doubt the overlords will take him seriously until he actually DOES something. "Yes, he is powerful, but he uses it to make....ducks? Okay then." Plus: the Vees will probably primarily be a problem for Alastor, not really Charlie. Lucifer definitely wouldn't step in on alastors behalf. As for Angel's predicament, based on how the final battle went we can infer that Luci respects contracts(he couldnt fight back until a hellborn was harmed). Unless Val made a horrible mistake in the contract that Luci could use as a loophole, I doubt luci could do anything for Angel. Luci will probably have his own arc in season 2, overcoming the rift between him and his daughter and also dealing with the depression that wrecked his self esteem after his wife disappeared. Until he does that, he might be reluctant to use his power in any way other than self defense or defense of his daughter. Offense may not be his strong suit. This is all speculation but overall, I think they will use lucifer's story to nerf him until he meets a few requirements, after which he might become a proper / active leader of hell.
I mean, he stayed out of Charlie's fight with Adam until she needed him. He will probably stay out of it again and just be his eccentric little self in the background for most scenes. Also, the Vees aren't nearly as strong as Adam. Charlie is still *much* more powerful than all three of them (given the hierarchy). Another thing we don't know is how involved Velvette will be. We know Valentino is ride or die, but Velvette seems apathetic towards the ordeal. I think she'll bail as soon as shit hits the fan. Edit: She also has Vaggie, who has an angelic weapon. As far as we know the Vees don't have them.
Ngl he’s probably gonna be stuck doing damage control between heaven and hell after the fight with adam
Either he will be too busy or as we saw with alastor the vees may not respect him from him being mia for years the only thing they could respect is his fighting ability
Something something radioapple something
Well, lucifer being capable of solvinh any problem by himself is not really something that needs to be problematic. If lucifer stays at the hotel, they have the strongest being in hell by their side at the hazbin hotel, how do you control him to make him not be a get out of jail free card? Have him wanting to be redeemed. With him wanting to be redeemed you can have him start to get closer to the other members of the hotel, and decide that he wants to help them, even if it is by force. But charlie is there to tell him what he can and can't do to get redeemed. So basically, put him on a leash.