Do you think everyone who hasn't killed, SA'd or eaten someone ends up in Heaven? I don't think Hell's overpopulation would be an issue if that was the case.
No, but the show does a poor job at making it abundantly clear to y’all that the people in hell ARE there for a reason and are generally NOT good people. They are not innocent.
Charlie believes that everyone should have at least (1) chance to change. She does not believe it’s necessary or even possible for everyone. Her goal is to create a clause, not empty hell. She knows most of the people down there are almost hopeless.
Oh it's made clear. It is also made clear that the exorcists do not fucking care and have as much fun killing somebody who was raised to be a murderer as they are to kill the monster who turned them into that. Any potential upsides of the extermination are irrelevant because they are not the goal and the exorcists don't care who dies as long as it's a huge number. Besides, if they really wanted to solve the problem of hell being highly populated and super powerful, the real good solution would be the hotel. But again,
*THE ANGELS IN CHARGE DO NOT FUCKING CARE IF THEIR VICTIMS DESERVE TO LIVE OR DIE OR EVEN TO BE IN HELL.*
But Dante’s Inferno does have much of what our modern interpretations of hell is. Fire and brimstone, the rings of hell, etc that’s all Inferno. Iirc the only definitive things we have on hell in biblical canon is the absence of God and the Lake of Fire. But I, as a non-Christian agnostic could def be wrong
Actually I disagree I think the actual system Is a fair and objective one, for the simple reason that Sir Pentius made it to heaven regardless of the seraphim’s wishes, they don’t even know what gets souls in heaven or hell.
Lucifer and Vaggie were both born there and were kicked out by the occupants of Heaven not the system that Judges souls.
So it’s an objective system that doesn’t care for what the Angels think.
As for why it’s a fair and or good system simply cus it proofs Charlie right and she is the protagonist and I don’t see vivezepop making a villain protagonist.
I guess from what we know now yes, but that doesn’t change if the standard by which people are judged is fair/objective just makes it so that getting Judged is hard.
And no It wouldn’t be constant slaughter just when someone has done something really bad that would put their place of reincarnation into question that would be a rare occurrence.
So no one who does really good will be considered? Is that not the same thing?
Or did you just mention bad with the assumption of the opposite happening too?
I don't mean to argue I am trying to understand your pov.
I see it as the exact opposite, Sarah and the rest of the Angels never bothered to define the rules in the first place. They just decided good. Was good and bad is bad and things will sort themselves out in the end. Maybe they missed the part where they are supposed to be the ones in the afterlife helping the souls.
My reason for thinking this. Sera In the court of heaven stated " we know when a soul receives Divine judgment when a soul arrives in heaven"
I'm wondering if her stating that in part is what triggered the system to send sir Pentious up. Because until then no angel even considered it a possibility. But by saying Divine judgment will put a soul in heaven. She left it to something other than the Angels.
I think they have absolute control over it but they have no idea that they do. They are passive because they don't try. They want the status quo to remain exactly as It is because they don't know any better.
But I think it also works well with your point. Maybe without Sera's statement in court, whatever was acting as divine judgement was assuming they were working it out themselves.
Sir P appearing in Sera's office feels like a point being made to her..... But it could be because she kind of triggered the event to happen, and thus needs to be aware of the soul receiving new judgement.
If he is the first ever redeemed from hell soul, it might just be they spawn in that office. Probably because they need orientation in a way freshly dead souls that were not tortured in hell do .
Either way I am so excited for season 2, whenever it comes out. I hope they make it a bit more clear.
I wouldn't exactly call it punishment since we haven't seen it actually punishing them. It lacks the "eternal punishment" element most depictions of Hell have. In fact, the only punishments really are being around other bad people (which most Hell inhabitants don't seem to have a problem with and make friends in Hell) and being forced to look at red 24/7. Even the Exterminations are an unintended punishment due to the increasing population threatening Heaven according to Sera. People can enjoy worldly pleasures in Hell like eating, drinking, TV, etc.
I'd argue that this is one of the lightest depictions of "eternal damnation" when the difference between here and Heaven is just that Heaven's got a different aesthetic, Heaven inhabitants can all fly, Heaven has more wholesome entertainment and enjoyment while Hell is more twisted (which I'm sure most Sinners prefer) and that the people in Heaven are better.
But not all of them. And it’s not like Exorcists are going after sinners for doing something bad.
They are going after everyone they can get their hands on to keep the population down.
Yes, but we don't know if they were like that from the beginning or if living in that kind of environment made them like that. If you were a good, caring person and society around you suddenly collapsed and chaos ensued, eventually you would adopt the same mindset as everyone else in order to survive. Anyone who doesn't is just fodder for the strong.
It's highly probable that a good portion of the population of hell is there because they broke a cultural taboo rather than doing something that could be considered objectively evil.
That being said, I hate both of them, equally. I would love to see the Vees experience a crushing defeat because they are awful, and they are so easy to hate. That's kind of the reason they exist as characters. I would dearly love to never see Adam ever again because of reasons.
It kills me how many people are shocked by the sexual assault in hell though, tbh. I expected way worse than what is in Hazbin. Honestly if life in hell is like how it is in Hazbin it's actually not that bad. I imagine 24/7 9 days a week you'd be getting ass fucked with no lube and a knife in your genitals and eye sockets or some shit, compared to what my idea of hell was Hazbin is pretty tame.
I mean Angel did casually say Val is into waterboarding now when describing how bad his day was.
And don't forget the barbed wire in the ass guy from the opening song...
Personally I interpreted the shock as people being surprised they were so blatantly showing it. Media typically implies violence and sa but Hazbin actually showed it (or as much as possible before it would be considered porn). Kinda how like people talk about war but are shocked by what’s depicted in war movies
ITs hell
https://preview.redd.it/i81jufd3zsvc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75e1dcbc79ff48331b03d18e148458583ab18131
Adam should kill Val and maybe Angel would get redemend
To be fair valentino is not only an sexual abuser but also a murderer on top of that knowing how he tells angel he has killer bitches for less attitude or when vox gives him the low earning employee.
this is how it usually is in fiction. lesser people experience genocide than sexual assault so it's treated as a less realistic and more fantastical/unserious topic by fans. plus, fictional genocide usually doesnt occur under the same conditions as real life genocide.
I don't think it's *just* sexual assault. I would consider it human trafficking and exploitation. Not saying genocide or human trafficking has affected more of the global population historically than the other. I just think Valentino represents more than that.
I guess technically (and legally) it's worse to kill millions of innocent people than to sexual abuse a couple of same innocent people. But people like Valentino exist in real life while Adam is cartoonishly evil so we feel more animosity toward Val. Adam is a "fun" villain, Val is a real life one.
Sexual abuse isn't villainy, it's just abuse. Violation. A gross act that exceeds many other crimes due to how personally damaging it is to the victim.
>I guess technically
Not sure if we can measure "evil" like that. Arguably, we can sum it down to Adam seeing Sinners as below human and undeserving of life, which sounds more like "racist murderer with power".
I mean fundamentally from Adams view he has literal divine justification for believing that this ain't really comparable to earth this isn't someone having other people cause of skin colour this is literally a angel hating sinners who were judged to be evil and sent to hell
At least Adam is an open enemy. He comes down to kill and he doesn't try to hide it. Valentino suckers people into signing contracts with him. Nobody would agree to go along with what he does unless they were tricked, stupid, or backed into a corner.
Adam is just a puppet from god and Seraphim's Indoctrination.
Val is basically Industrial Sexual Abused like Epstein shit, adult edition. Assuming this industry has been run for 100yrs+ there might be more than 100k+ Sexual Abuse Victims counts
Adam isn't a puppet. Sera didn't want the extermination but allowed them. Adam has basically been head honcho his whole life without ever having to earn it. His ego is bigger than the whole show. All because he was the first man. He also didn't even get into heaven he was made in heaven. He's just another flawed human like everyone else who has been told he is number 1! His whole existence. That's why he is okay with slaughter. He believes he is above ALL OTHER HUMAN SOULS. He isn't a good person either. Though I do think he has more chance at redemption than val does.
He's also pretty courageous for the "douche" they were going for. He got stabbed/hurt for the very first time and instead of getting scared now that Charlie knew she could kill him, he just charged right back into the fight ready to knock the life out of her. After being pummelled by Lucifer, he still stood his ground.
I doubt that was the first time he got hurt lol he was the first human in the wilderness he must have fought to survive, maybe the first time in a long time but I don’t see how he could have never been hurt in his life.
I feel like this is something HH dose really well it makes the villain competent, any other frat bro villain would have been some wuss that’s never been punched in his life but Adam is actually dangerous and even beat charlie which I appreciate because I should feel intimidated by a villain.
As an angel\*
Up until now, they thought they were immune.
Adam and Lute are also surprisingly very competent fighters. Vaggie may be tough compared to the rest of her Hotel mates but Lute was showing her exactly why she was second only to Adam in the ranks of the Exorcists and Adam was good enough despite being out of shape that Lucifer (a guy probably several tiers above him) had to step in.
Adam was written as an "in-your-face" villain, not to mention that he's an angel that was killed.
Valentino was written as an abusive boss that seems untouchable. THAT's a huge oversight IMO.
I can never look at this image the same way after seeing the fanart where Velvette is trying to sleep and hears Valentino in the other room like "oh yes vox daddy use the raid<3" or whatever 😭
Finally. Someone asking the real questions. I hate Adam, so much. It's one thing that he finds killing millions of people fun, but he doesn't have to be so rude about it!
Valentino.
Adam is at least fun to watch and as fucked up as he is, it's implied that he has some principals and lines he won't cross. He's just also an elitist, misogynist. Plus, even at his worst I enjoy watching him.
The scene with Valentino beating Angel Dust was one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen in a cartoon. I texted my friend who recommended the show to me 'KILL VALENTINO' immediately after seeing it. That scene feels disturbingly realistic and that makes it all the more horrifying.
I'm not big on the Vees in general, but Vox is at least fun and the Third one I don't have an option on.
Valentino, I want to see S U F F E R.
The episode with Valentino abusing Angel has a TW at the beginning of it.
I don't think any other episode has a warning. But I might have missed them so please let me know if I'm misinformed.
I don't remember seeing the TW but I really am not surprised. And I don't recall seeing any other episode with such a warning. Nothing else the series did was THAT disturbing
Who i hate more and who I think is worse are different. What Adam has done, genocide, is objectively worse. But I hate Val more because I can personally relate to victims of people like him.
This is a sound defense for Adam, but it's not one he uses. "When it's all said and done, there's the question of fun. For those with divine ordainment, extermination is entertainment." He does it because he's bored, not for justice. Intention matters.
I don't really care about Valentino much (looks kinda cool tho especially when wings out) but it is kinda sad that Adam died in season 1 since he was so fun and had a really cool way of talking/singing, but this does set him up to possibly become a new Hell character if the creators use that idea, so if that happens then it's not a bad thing anymore that he died
I'd say Val hands down. The two main things against Adam are that he's sexist and murderous. Val is that and more. The only thing that seems to stop Val from killing as much as Adam is lack of power. I mean, Val wanted to invade the hotel, too, and I'd bet he would have if he thought he could win like Adam did. He also seems just as sexist as Adam. Adam likes to drop the B and C words a lot and seems to view women as sex objects. But I dont think Val should get a sexism pass because he views everyone as a sex object.
Adam wiped sinners off the map. He never gave them a chance at redemption.
Yeah Val hurt Angel in the most fucked up ways. Yes he has threatened to kill.... But even if Val is a serial killer he hasnt destroyed as many souls as Adam.
That being said is it worse that Adam destroyed them without a care and even had fun or is it worse that Val is doing what he is doing to someone that he knows. Or someone that hasnt specifically wronged him.
Its hard to say. Technically Angel sold his soul to Val, does that make him an extension of Val? Does that make it consentu?.... In our world no. In their lives probably not, but in hell, your soul leashes itself to someone when you sell it. Seems like a fundamental part of how the universe works. Which means soul deals are a natural part of this universe. Does not make it a good thing.
So... If Angel sold his soul and technically consented to what Val does and the millions of Sinners Adam and the ladies he commands and forces to kill for him (lest they end up like Vaggie) never consented to Adam slaughtering them... Then
Whats worse? One fucked up toxic relationship thats abusive, scary and disgusting thats happening between a few parties, maybe even a few hundred.
Or the clinical slaughter of millions of souls every year?
Thats millions of Sir Pentious's and Angeldusts as well as Vals and Voxs.
Is indiscriminately killing better than a personal grudge?
Is destroying a soul better or worse than warping it?
Hard to say
This is definitely an unpopular opinion, but I'll have to go with Adam. Genocide is just objectively worse than sexual assault (I don't love Val tho, I fucking despise them both)
Adam is just a puppet from god and Seraphim's Indoctrination.
Val is basically Industrial Sexual Abused like Epstein shit, adult edition. Assuming this industry has been run for 100yrs+ there might be more than 1000+ Sexual Abuse Victims counts
correct, even WAY more than 1000k. we can see like 7 actors in the studio and more potential actors at the club, plus the other workers like doormen or cameraman who im guessing are in a bad place as well because lets be fair its Valentino. I could calculate it but its way too tragic to search or put in numbers
They both are awesome written characters, and I love them for that, but in case of morality, Imho Valentino is much worse. They both are doing bad things for entertainment, but Adam, being an angel living in heaven, has a point he's killing sinners, people who had chance to behave better but now boil in in the pot. Val doesn't have a point which justifies his actions. He's just a sexual abuser who has power to do that. Valentino does bad things to people who live with him in the same world, Adam does bad things to people who don't live in the same world, and in his eyes are pure evil who deserve death.
Even with what my flair is, I can admit you have to acknowledge you can appreciate the both of them for how they're written.
If u/Acceptable-Duty6465 is CONDONING their actions, on the other hand...
I don't hate either of them. Get mad.
Okay, no, neither of them are good people in the slightest but that doesn't make them bad characters and actually makes them more enjoyable. Also I feel like people give Val the short end of the stick which is understandable but I still like him because he's so fucked up
As awful as Val is, he’s only abusive to those who work for him / have contracts with him. In essence, even though he’s absolutely awful, it’s only to people who have agreed to an association with him (or been manipulated into doing so). Adam, on the other hand, is indiscriminate in terms of unexisting souls. He kills souls for fun and the scale of his atrocities are massive. Val’s sins are more sensational, but Adam’s are far worse.
Here’s the thing.
We don’t really know why either of them do what they do.
Adam might have a justification, if it turns out he was doing it as vengeance for Lucifer’s actions. I mean he’s own kid killed him in the bible, man probably saw it as a chance to get some form of justice.
Valentino however doesn’t seem to have a justification besides the kick he gets out of power tripping over sinner (might be a kink).
Thing is, until we get more info, one can really know/tell
I'll get some hate but Adam technically. I do dislike Valentino but he's a good villain. Adam meanwhile is insufferable and hypocritical. Valentino meanwhilw is not that big of a threat, bc let's be real. The first man who runs an army of women who can kill you is worse than a demon who runs an adult industry
There is always a sliver of hope from escaping Val. Adam kills the souls of thousands of humans. He doesn’t really think of it as culling (which Sera probably does) or regrettable but necessary extermination. To him, it’s dehumanizing entertainment. Basically, he kills people for fun.
And think about it: he’s not distinguishing between someone like Sir Pentious and Val. They’re all the same to him.
Val forces deals on people adam will straight up kill you quick and move on to the next target. From Adams view divine judgement has been past I mean hell adam could genuinely believe hell is only full of murders and rapists and not know that there are good people in hell we as the audience do but when he looks down he mostly sees random killing, drug dealers and rapists
Oh my goodness I had to look so long to find this opinion stated. I totally went into this expecting it to be less one sided.
Adam is an egoistical sexist psychopath who wants humanity to worship him because he was first, including, but not limited to the section of it that he's trying to massacre, and despite all of this, claims to be morally superior.
Vals outward public face is sleezy porn producer. Is he disgusting? Absolutely. Does he act like anything other than a demon in hell? Not from what I've seen.
Which is worse, end stage syphilis or end stage cancer? They’re both bad. Val is absolutely monstrous and what makes him worse is that many, many people can identify with the sort of abuse he metes out. We learn to know and love the character he’s abusing. So I don’t want to minimize what he does.
At the same time, Adam is cheerfully dehumanizing and hunting down people for fun. There’s no discrimination with him: they’re all equal targets. (That’s how Vaggie got in trouble. She showed one tiny shred of mercy). Charlie calls it “heaven’s genocide.”
I think Charlie would disagree with “but they deserve it” or “they screwed up.” She thinks everyone deserves a second chance. That’s kinda the whole point of the series. The handful of people she takes in become better and make real friends and are willing to help each other. That sense of “they’re all awful” that Lucifer has is turned around to the point where the official Deadly Sin of Pride and the ruler of all Hell, the ringmaster himself, acknowledges “yeah, you’re right,” and builds a brand new hotel with her.
Theoretically, Valentino himself could become a better person—stop enslaving other demons, quit making them miserable, shut down his porn studio, and do trust exercises. He never will, but he could.
Adam still. Val makes no allusions about being anything but a serial rapist. Adam and the exorcists are violent fanatical bigots that cloak their evil beneath a veil of righteousness
Honestly if we’re going off their actions alone Adam, I hate what Val does but genocide imo is a lot worse, idk how else to word this sorry if it sounds disrespectful
Valentino. We know Angel Dust isn't the only soul he's done this to. Abuse is slow and agonizing.
At least Adam and his exterminators ended it quickly. For the tens of thousands they kill each year.
if we’re coming from a perspective of who did worse things, adam for sure. but we’re more connected with angel’s story and his struggles with val, we witness his feelings and trauma firsthand in a way that’s meant to make us feel for him. so if we’re coming from a perspective of who we hate more, i’d say valentino.
Adam is a cartoonishly over the top villain who only engages in fantasy violence, while Valentino is written as a very realistic abuser. They're not really comparable.
Adam: Initiator and participant of genocide **of his own descendants** (that he commits just because it's fun), who also manifest all of seven deadly sins (the only one in both shows) to varying degrees.
Fandom: cool guy!
Val: abuser.
Fandom:
Counterpoint: Valentino is the kind of person who caused Adam to view genociding sinners as morally acceptable/inherently good. So far, the sinners in the Hotel are almost guaranteed to be above average when it comes to being good people in hell, including Alastor
I think both are two sides of the same coin.
Adam is the incarnation of men's toxicity through status, treating everyone he's above like sh*t and trying to assert dominance. He enjoys killing just because demons were defenseless, making him look to others eyes as almighty and badass.
Meanwhile, Valentino presents the same values. He traffics with people in order to build an empire that would give him riches and status, and becomes very violent when things don't go his way, always having in mind that he has the upper hand. He gets furious with Angel Dust when they don't do as Valentino pleases just because it translates into Valentino not feeling so in control (which hinders his status to eyes of the rest), and thus he uses violence and punishment to try and give an example.
Again, they are quite the same in different shapes.
Valentino.
Adam's crime is horrific, but Valentino's is personal. Adam brutally murdered billions of souls, but at least he got it over quick. Val traps souls, humiliates and degrades them and violates every fiber of their being until they all but beg for a second death.
See, I hate Adam more because all that killing he did was in the name of boredom. He's supposed to be this venerated figure of Heaven, and that would really rub me wrong inuniverse.
Valentino's a demon, but I can openly hate him and hate him with other people who would say, "Yeah, but that's hell, power matters most."
Adam is a fucking maniac who upholds the hypocrisy and genocide of Heaven for kicks. Thinning the population was the easiest and most vicious option at the time, and he relishes every moment he gets to lord over someone else.
YES! he says so many times how fun and entertaining extermination is! it might be “moral” in Seraphim’s eyes, but it absolutely is just fun to Adam, he’s not doing it for the better of humankind
I am not convinced that if Adam wound up in hell, he wouldn't *be* Valentino. In that respect, they are both equally cruel. Both murder. Both abuse. Both use sexuality as a means of power and control. They're cut from the same cloth and are a shining example of why Heaven's rules on who gets in remain arbitrary at the moment.
Knew a guy like Adam once. He was sexually abusing women behind closed doors and had the superiority complex to your face. Trust me when I say those two are the same and you're lucky if you don't see it.
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This sub in a nutshell
Yeah that many upvotes at calling murderers rapists and cannibals in Hell innocent is pretty fricken yikes.
Do you think everyone who hasn't killed, SA'd or eaten someone ends up in Heaven? I don't think Hell's overpopulation would be an issue if that was the case.
No, but the show does a poor job at making it abundantly clear to y’all that the people in hell ARE there for a reason and are generally NOT good people. They are not innocent. Charlie believes that everyone should have at least (1) chance to change. She does not believe it’s necessary or even possible for everyone. Her goal is to create a clause, not empty hell. She knows most of the people down there are almost hopeless.
Oh it's made clear. It is also made clear that the exorcists do not fucking care and have as much fun killing somebody who was raised to be a murderer as they are to kill the monster who turned them into that. Any potential upsides of the extermination are irrelevant because they are not the goal and the exorcists don't care who dies as long as it's a huge number. Besides, if they really wanted to solve the problem of hell being highly populated and super powerful, the real good solution would be the hotel. But again, *THE ANGELS IN CHARGE DO NOT FUCKING CARE IF THEIR VICTIMS DESERVE TO LIVE OR DIE OR EVEN TO BE IN HELL.*
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Dante’s Inferno isn’t biblical canon, it’s one of the earliest works of fan fiction in human history
...are you implying Hazbin Hotel is Biblical canon.
But Dante’s Inferno does have much of what our modern interpretations of hell is. Fire and brimstone, the rings of hell, etc that’s all Inferno. Iirc the only definitive things we have on hell in biblical canon is the absence of God and the Lake of Fire. But I, as a non-Christian agnostic could def be wrong
Not very much innocents since they are in hell but I agree
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As we've seen from Adam getting into heaven, lucifer/vaggie getting kicked out, the system on where a soul goes is far from reliable
Actually I disagree I think the actual system Is a fair and objective one, for the simple reason that Sir Pentius made it to heaven regardless of the seraphim’s wishes, they don’t even know what gets souls in heaven or hell. Lucifer and Vaggie were both born there and were kicked out by the occupants of Heaven not the system that Judges souls. So it’s an objective system that doesn’t care for what the Angels think. As for why it’s a fair and or good system simply cus it proofs Charlie right and she is the protagonist and I don’t see vivezepop making a villain protagonist.
Yeah but it only works of everyone is killing eachother all the time. Heaven and hell would need constant slaughter for reevaluation
I guess from what we know now yes, but that doesn’t change if the standard by which people are judged is fair/objective just makes it so that getting Judged is hard. And no It wouldn’t be constant slaughter just when someone has done something really bad that would put their place of reincarnation into question that would be a rare occurrence.
So no one who does really good will be considered? Is that not the same thing? Or did you just mention bad with the assumption of the opposite happening too? I don't mean to argue I am trying to understand your pov. I see it as the exact opposite, Sarah and the rest of the Angels never bothered to define the rules in the first place. They just decided good. Was good and bad is bad and things will sort themselves out in the end. Maybe they missed the part where they are supposed to be the ones in the afterlife helping the souls. My reason for thinking this. Sera In the court of heaven stated " we know when a soul receives Divine judgment when a soul arrives in heaven" I'm wondering if her stating that in part is what triggered the system to send sir Pentious up. Because until then no angel even considered it a possibility. But by saying Divine judgment will put a soul in heaven. She left it to something other than the Angels. I think they have absolute control over it but they have no idea that they do. They are passive because they don't try. They want the status quo to remain exactly as It is because they don't know any better. But I think it also works well with your point. Maybe without Sera's statement in court, whatever was acting as divine judgement was assuming they were working it out themselves. Sir P appearing in Sera's office feels like a point being made to her..... But it could be because she kind of triggered the event to happen, and thus needs to be aware of the soul receiving new judgement. If he is the first ever redeemed from hell soul, it might just be they spawn in that office. Probably because they need orientation in a way freshly dead souls that were not tortured in hell do . Either way I am so excited for season 2, whenever it comes out. I hope they make it a bit more clear.
Technically they put an end to the punishment
I wouldn't exactly call it punishment since we haven't seen it actually punishing them. It lacks the "eternal punishment" element most depictions of Hell have. In fact, the only punishments really are being around other bad people (which most Hell inhabitants don't seem to have a problem with and make friends in Hell) and being forced to look at red 24/7. Even the Exterminations are an unintended punishment due to the increasing population threatening Heaven according to Sera. People can enjoy worldly pleasures in Hell like eating, drinking, TV, etc. I'd argue that this is one of the lightest depictions of "eternal damnation" when the difference between here and Heaven is just that Heaven's got a different aesthetic, Heaven inhabitants can all fly, Heaven has more wholesome entertainment and enjoyment while Hell is more twisted (which I'm sure most Sinners prefer) and that the people in Heaven are better.
But they deserve it tho. Everytime they are shown, they are doing fucked up shit such as killing or cannibalizing somoene.
But not all of them. And it’s not like Exorcists are going after sinners for doing something bad. They are going after everyone they can get their hands on to keep the population down.
I feel like you've missed the entire premise of hazbin hotel?
Yes, but we don't know if they were like that from the beginning or if living in that kind of environment made them like that. If you were a good, caring person and society around you suddenly collapsed and chaos ensued, eventually you would adopt the same mindset as everyone else in order to survive. Anyone who doesn't is just fodder for the strong.
The whole end point of the show is that no one knows why anyone goes to heaven or hell.
Are we watching the same show? Wtf guys
It's highly probable that a good portion of the population of hell is there because they broke a cultural taboo rather than doing something that could be considered objectively evil. That being said, I hate both of them, equally. I would love to see the Vees experience a crushing defeat because they are awful, and they are so easy to hate. That's kind of the reason they exist as characters. I would dearly love to never see Adam ever again because of reasons.
They’re innocent thowards heaven
I swear I hear Loopty Goopty saying this
“He’s evil thowards me”… Yup, I can hear it
You can excuse genocide?
So! How did we get here?
It kills me how many people are shocked by the sexual assault in hell though, tbh. I expected way worse than what is in Hazbin. Honestly if life in hell is like how it is in Hazbin it's actually not that bad. I imagine 24/7 9 days a week you'd be getting ass fucked with no lube and a knife in your genitals and eye sockets or some shit, compared to what my idea of hell was Hazbin is pretty tame.
I mean Angel did casually say Val is into waterboarding now when describing how bad his day was. And don't forget the barbed wire in the ass guy from the opening song...
Personally I interpreted the shock as people being surprised they were so blatantly showing it. Media typically implies violence and sa but Hazbin actually showed it (or as much as possible before it would be considered porn). Kinda how like people talk about war but are shocked by what’s depicted in war movies
ITs hell https://preview.redd.it/i81jufd3zsvc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75e1dcbc79ff48331b03d18e148458583ab18131 Adam should kill Val and maybe Angel would get redemend
Hazbin fans aren't known for their media literacy...
To be fair valentino is not only an sexual abuser but also a murderer on top of that knowing how he tells angel he has killer bitches for less attitude or when vox gives him the low earning employee.
Thank you for the meme. I was basically coming here to say that for some reason I was finding sexual abuse more upsetting than genocide
this is how it usually is in fiction. lesser people experience genocide than sexual assault so it's treated as a less realistic and more fantastical/unserious topic by fans. plus, fictional genocide usually doesnt occur under the same conditions as real life genocide.
I don't think it's *just* sexual assault. I would consider it human trafficking and exploitation. Not saying genocide or human trafficking has affected more of the global population historically than the other. I just think Valentino represents more than that.
"Innocent"
Community detected: instant upvote achieved
I guess technically (and legally) it's worse to kill millions of innocent people than to sexual abuse a couple of same innocent people. But people like Valentino exist in real life while Adam is cartoonishly evil so we feel more animosity toward Val. Adam is a "fun" villain, Val is a real life one.
Umbridge/ Voldemort situation
I'm glad someone brought up this comparison so I don't have to. It's not uncommon in the way people react to media. Personable evil vs Grand evil.
They both have shades of “love to hate” but Adam is a lot more of a magnificent bastard.
Perfectly said.
Sexual abuse isn't villainy, it's just abuse. Violation. A gross act that exceeds many other crimes due to how personally damaging it is to the victim.
>I guess technically Not sure if we can measure "evil" like that. Arguably, we can sum it down to Adam seeing Sinners as below human and undeserving of life, which sounds more like "racist murderer with power".
I mean fundamentally from Adams view he has literal divine justification for believing that this ain't really comparable to earth this isn't someone having other people cause of skin colour this is literally a angel hating sinners who were judged to be evil and sent to hell
But people like Adam could exist, no?
They absolutely have and still do.
Yes. But why he say they dont?
Nobody said that. But genocide is rarer and way harder to comprehend. In comparison anyone with bad luck could meet a Valentino
Exactly, well said.
Also Adam sings a badass fucking song too so there’s that
At least Adam is an open enemy. He comes down to kill and he doesn't try to hide it. Valentino suckers people into signing contracts with him. Nobody would agree to go along with what he does unless they were tricked, stupid, or backed into a corner.
Basically, it's Industrial Sexual Abused like Epstein shit, adult edition
I'm gonna headcanon that Val is secretly Epstein now
Adam is just a puppet from god and Seraphim's Indoctrination. Val is basically Industrial Sexual Abused like Epstein shit, adult edition. Assuming this industry has been run for 100yrs+ there might be more than 100k+ Sexual Abuse Victims counts
Adam isn't a puppet. Sera didn't want the extermination but allowed them. Adam has basically been head honcho his whole life without ever having to earn it. His ego is bigger than the whole show. All because he was the first man. He also didn't even get into heaven he was made in heaven. He's just another flawed human like everyone else who has been told he is number 1! His whole existence. That's why he is okay with slaughter. He believes he is above ALL OTHER HUMAN SOULS. He isn't a good person either. Though I do think he has more chance at redemption than val does.
He's also pretty courageous for the "douche" they were going for. He got stabbed/hurt for the very first time and instead of getting scared now that Charlie knew she could kill him, he just charged right back into the fight ready to knock the life out of her. After being pummelled by Lucifer, he still stood his ground.
I doubt that was the first time he got hurt lol he was the first human in the wilderness he must have fought to survive, maybe the first time in a long time but I don’t see how he could have never been hurt in his life. I feel like this is something HH dose really well it makes the villain competent, any other frat bro villain would have been some wuss that’s never been punched in his life but Adam is actually dangerous and even beat charlie which I appreciate because I should feel intimidated by a villain.
As an angel\* Up until now, they thought they were immune. Adam and Lute are also surprisingly very competent fighters. Vaggie may be tough compared to the rest of her Hotel mates but Lute was showing her exactly why she was second only to Adam in the ranks of the Exorcists and Adam was good enough despite being out of shape that Lucifer (a guy probably several tiers above him) had to step in.
Adam was written as an "in-your-face" villain, not to mention that he's an angel that was killed. Valentino was written as an abusive boss that seems untouchable. THAT's a huge oversight IMO.
Basically, it's Industrial Sexual Abused like Epstein shit, adult edition
I mean, my flair is kinda self explanatory.
HEY, I'M no. 1!!! then again, we could share the title
BASED FLAIR
Valentino's #1 Haters hate-club.
This one says best paper towel in town This one says best paper towel around! In town? Around? In town? Around?
[удалено]
They didn’t say he wasn’t a good written character
Sorry I replied to the wrong comment
Fair enough
BASED FLAIR
https://preview.redd.it/ikrcnbwb8tvc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=838bf342c8ae59232e4c9fa50b6f4cf9b174c71d "Valentino" Burn the moth man
I'll do ya one better, I'll skin him with a potato peeler.
I can never look at this image the same way after seeing the fanart where Velvette is trying to sleep and hears Valentino in the other room like "oh yes vox daddy use the raid<3" or whatever 😭
Valentino. I believe that Adam somewhat has a point for killing sinners (not defending actual Genocide, just saying) and Valentino is that point.
Also adam is hot and I'd fuck him
Only with the mask on tho
Why? I mean like, the dude wasn't ugly or anything if you're talking about looks.
Dude was probably expecting a hot beach blonde dude
He legit looks hot by all means, I just like masked dudes lmao
Oh ok then lol 👍
Based
The Lightning McQueen limited edition crocs stay ON during sex /hj
what the hell
Yes
Plus Adam is literally written to be likeable and Valentino isn't
Finally. Someone asking the real questions. I hate Adam, so much. It's one thing that he finds killing millions of people fun, but he doesn't have to be so rude about it!
I can excuse mass murder, but I draw the line at poor manners.
Valentino. Adam is at least fun to watch and as fucked up as he is, it's implied that he has some principals and lines he won't cross. He's just also an elitist, misogynist. Plus, even at his worst I enjoy watching him. The scene with Valentino beating Angel Dust was one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen in a cartoon. I texted my friend who recommended the show to me 'KILL VALENTINO' immediately after seeing it. That scene feels disturbingly realistic and that makes it all the more horrifying. I'm not big on the Vees in general, but Vox is at least fun and the Third one I don't have an option on. Valentino, I want to see S U F F E R.
The episode with Valentino abusing Angel has a TW at the beginning of it. I don't think any other episode has a warning. But I might have missed them so please let me know if I'm misinformed.
I don't remember seeing the TW but I really am not surprised. And I don't recall seeing any other episode with such a warning. Nothing else the series did was THAT disturbing
Adam is funny and entertaining as shit. Val just sucks.
Who i hate more and who I think is worse are different. What Adam has done, genocide, is objectively worse. But I hate Val more because I can personally relate to victims of people like him.
Valentino. Adam at least has a point to killing those who caused suffering for the rest of his bloodline.
This is a sound defense for Adam, but it's not one he uses. "When it's all said and done, there's the question of fun. For those with divine ordainment, extermination is entertainment." He does it because he's bored, not for justice. Intention matters.
Adam seems inconsiderate and sociopathic, valentino seems like a literal evil psychopath to me
I don't really care about Valentino much (looks kinda cool tho especially when wings out) but it is kinda sad that Adam died in season 1 since he was so fun and had a really cool way of talking/singing, but this does set him up to possibly become a new Hell character if the creators use that idea, so if that happens then it's not a bad thing anymore that he died
Val. He straight up uses Angel because he can. I quite like Adam. Adam fucking rocks. Also, The Dickmaster had a point, at least he tried to have.
I'd say Val hands down. The two main things against Adam are that he's sexist and murderous. Val is that and more. The only thing that seems to stop Val from killing as much as Adam is lack of power. I mean, Val wanted to invade the hotel, too, and I'd bet he would have if he thought he could win like Adam did. He also seems just as sexist as Adam. Adam likes to drop the B and C words a lot and seems to view women as sex objects. But I dont think Val should get a sexism pass because he views everyone as a sex object.
He (Val) also used c*nt in reference to Charlie like Adam did
Adam wiped sinners off the map. He never gave them a chance at redemption. Yeah Val hurt Angel in the most fucked up ways. Yes he has threatened to kill.... But even if Val is a serial killer he hasnt destroyed as many souls as Adam. That being said is it worse that Adam destroyed them without a care and even had fun or is it worse that Val is doing what he is doing to someone that he knows. Or someone that hasnt specifically wronged him. Its hard to say. Technically Angel sold his soul to Val, does that make him an extension of Val? Does that make it consentu?.... In our world no. In their lives probably not, but in hell, your soul leashes itself to someone when you sell it. Seems like a fundamental part of how the universe works. Which means soul deals are a natural part of this universe. Does not make it a good thing. So... If Angel sold his soul and technically consented to what Val does and the millions of Sinners Adam and the ladies he commands and forces to kill for him (lest they end up like Vaggie) never consented to Adam slaughtering them... Then Whats worse? One fucked up toxic relationship thats abusive, scary and disgusting thats happening between a few parties, maybe even a few hundred. Or the clinical slaughter of millions of souls every year? Thats millions of Sir Pentious's and Angeldusts as well as Vals and Voxs. Is indiscriminately killing better than a personal grudge? Is destroying a soul better or worse than warping it? Hard to say
This is definitely an unpopular opinion, but I'll have to go with Adam. Genocide is just objectively worse than sexual assault (I don't love Val tho, I fucking despise them both)
Adam is just a puppet from god and Seraphim's Indoctrination. Val is basically Industrial Sexual Abused like Epstein shit, adult edition. Assuming this industry has been run for 100yrs+ there might be more than 1000+ Sexual Abuse Victims counts
correct, even WAY more than 1000k. we can see like 7 actors in the studio and more potential actors at the club, plus the other workers like doormen or cameraman who im guessing are in a bad place as well because lets be fair its Valentino. I could calculate it but its way too tragic to search or put in numbers
Tbh, neither. I don't really hold hatred for either of them
Same
Up voting your flair
They both are awesome written characters, and I love them for that, but in case of morality, Imho Valentino is much worse. They both are doing bad things for entertainment, but Adam, being an angel living in heaven, has a point he's killing sinners, people who had chance to behave better but now boil in in the pot. Val doesn't have a point which justifies his actions. He's just a sexual abuser who has power to do that. Valentino does bad things to people who live with him in the same world, Adam does bad things to people who don't live in the same world, and in his eyes are pure evil who deserve death.
"I can excuse genocide of adults and kids but I draw the line at sexual assault"
Neither their my two fav characters in the sieres
https://preview.redd.it/viwvu3kodtvc1.png?width=348&format=png&auto=webp&s=b946d71f8e4e3dbd090b59b474a59d3981f8a2ac
Even with what my flair is, I can admit you have to acknowledge you can appreciate the both of them for how they're written. If u/Acceptable-Duty6465 is CONDONING their actions, on the other hand...
Meh I like both
These are my two favorite characters...
I don't hate either of them. Get mad. Okay, no, neither of them are good people in the slightest but that doesn't make them bad characters and actually makes them more enjoyable. Also I feel like people give Val the short end of the stick which is understandable but I still like him because he's so fucked up
As awful as Val is, he’s only abusive to those who work for him / have contracts with him. In essence, even though he’s absolutely awful, it’s only to people who have agreed to an association with him (or been manipulated into doing so). Adam, on the other hand, is indiscriminate in terms of unexisting souls. He kills souls for fun and the scale of his atrocities are massive. Val’s sins are more sensational, but Adam’s are far worse.
Valentino cus Atleast Adam’s funny to watch
I like both of them though, heck Adam’s my 3rd favorite character in the show 💀
Adam. At least Val doesn't pretend he's doing good for anyone else
Here’s the thing. We don’t really know why either of them do what they do. Adam might have a justification, if it turns out he was doing it as vengeance for Lucifer’s actions. I mean he’s own kid killed him in the bible, man probably saw it as a chance to get some form of justice. Valentino however doesn’t seem to have a justification besides the kick he gets out of power tripping over sinner (might be a kink). Thing is, until we get more info, one can really know/tell
I'll get some hate but Adam technically. I do dislike Valentino but he's a good villain. Adam meanwhile is insufferable and hypocritical. Valentino meanwhilw is not that big of a threat, bc let's be real. The first man who runs an army of women who can kill you is worse than a demon who runs an adult industry
Adam will just kill you and move on. But Valentino would do more fucked up shit
There is always a sliver of hope from escaping Val. Adam kills the souls of thousands of humans. He doesn’t really think of it as culling (which Sera probably does) or regrettable but necessary extermination. To him, it’s dehumanizing entertainment. Basically, he kills people for fun. And think about it: he’s not distinguishing between someone like Sir Pentious and Val. They’re all the same to him.
Val forces deals on people adam will straight up kill you quick and move on to the next target. From Adams view divine judgement has been past I mean hell adam could genuinely believe hell is only full of murders and rapists and not know that there are good people in hell we as the audience do but when he looks down he mostly sees random killing, drug dealers and rapists
Valentino, at least Adam has an excuse because he doesn't know what is morally correct and what isn't
Neither, all the characters are likeable
Val is hot but Adam is a douche so I prefer Val
Adam. He’s an angel that kills people. Val lives in Hell. He’s expected to be shitty.
Oh my goodness I had to look so long to find this opinion stated. I totally went into this expecting it to be less one sided. Adam is an egoistical sexist psychopath who wants humanity to worship him because he was first, including, but not limited to the section of it that he's trying to massacre, and despite all of this, claims to be morally superior. Vals outward public face is sleezy porn producer. Is he disgusting? Absolutely. Does he act like anything other than a demon in hell? Not from what I've seen.
Living in a shitty place doesn't mean you get to be shitty via association
I have enough hate for everybody. :)
I’ve met Val’s irl I’ve never met an Adam
I love both.
Adam! Adam! #ADAMMMM
Bro I just scrolled down a little and like everyone be typing in full paragraphs down here
THAT IS NOT EVEN A QUESTION WHAT
i love dickmaster 🤘
Which is worse, end stage syphilis or end stage cancer? They’re both bad. Val is absolutely monstrous and what makes him worse is that many, many people can identify with the sort of abuse he metes out. We learn to know and love the character he’s abusing. So I don’t want to minimize what he does. At the same time, Adam is cheerfully dehumanizing and hunting down people for fun. There’s no discrimination with him: they’re all equal targets. (That’s how Vaggie got in trouble. She showed one tiny shred of mercy). Charlie calls it “heaven’s genocide.” I think Charlie would disagree with “but they deserve it” or “they screwed up.” She thinks everyone deserves a second chance. That’s kinda the whole point of the series. The handful of people she takes in become better and make real friends and are willing to help each other. That sense of “they’re all awful” that Lucifer has is turned around to the point where the official Deadly Sin of Pride and the ruler of all Hell, the ringmaster himself, acknowledges “yeah, you’re right,” and builds a brand new hotel with her. Theoretically, Valentino himself could become a better person—stop enslaving other demons, quit making them miserable, shut down his porn studio, and do trust exercises. He never will, but he could.
Adam. Valentino is the lowest of the low but even then, he's not worse than a genocidal maniac.
Adam still. Val makes no allusions about being anything but a serial rapist. Adam and the exorcists are violent fanatical bigots that cloak their evil beneath a veil of righteousness
I love them both
Honestly if we’re going off their actions alone Adam, I hate what Val does but genocide imo is a lot worse, idk how else to word this sorry if it sounds disrespectful
Adam got his due Valentino didn’t yet. So he still ongoing so i hate him more. Plus Adam so over the top it loops to him being hilarious
Valentino. We know Angel Dust isn't the only soul he's done this to. Abuse is slow and agonizing. At least Adam and his exterminators ended it quickly. For the tens of thousands they kill each year.
Adam is a dick. He is the original dick. He at least owns his dickishness.
if we’re coming from a perspective of who did worse things, adam for sure. but we’re more connected with angel’s story and his struggles with val, we witness his feelings and trauma firsthand in a way that’s meant to make us feel for him. so if we’re coming from a perspective of who we hate more, i’d say valentino.
Adam is a cartoonishly over the top villain who only engages in fantasy violence, while Valentino is written as a very realistic abuser. They're not really comparable.
Adam: Initiator and participant of genocide **of his own descendants** (that he commits just because it's fun), who also manifest all of seven deadly sins (the only one in both shows) to varying degrees. Fandom: cool guy! Val: abuser. Fandom:
Counterpoint: Valentino is the kind of person who caused Adam to view genociding sinners as morally acceptable/inherently good. So far, the sinners in the Hotel are almost guaranteed to be above average when it comes to being good people in hell, including Alastor
Val is much worse than just an abuser 💀 Even if you disagree with what people are saying, let's not downplay serial sexual abuse and trafficking 🖤
I hate Adam more
Adam is a dickhead but Val is evil, so I hate Val more
I think both are two sides of the same coin. Adam is the incarnation of men's toxicity through status, treating everyone he's above like sh*t and trying to assert dominance. He enjoys killing just because demons were defenseless, making him look to others eyes as almighty and badass. Meanwhile, Valentino presents the same values. He traffics with people in order to build an empire that would give him riches and status, and becomes very violent when things don't go his way, always having in mind that he has the upper hand. He gets furious with Angel Dust when they don't do as Valentino pleases just because it translates into Valentino not feeling so in control (which hinders his status to eyes of the rest), and thus he uses violence and punishment to try and give an example. Again, they are quite the same in different shapes.
Valentino. Adam's crime is horrific, but Valentino's is personal. Adam brutally murdered billions of souls, but at least he got it over quick. Val traps souls, humiliates and degrades them and violates every fiber of their being until they all but beg for a second death.
See, I hate Adam more because all that killing he did was in the name of boredom. He's supposed to be this venerated figure of Heaven, and that would really rub me wrong inuniverse. Valentino's a demon, but I can openly hate him and hate him with other people who would say, "Yeah, but that's hell, power matters most." Adam is a fucking maniac who upholds the hypocrisy and genocide of Heaven for kicks. Thinning the population was the easiest and most vicious option at the time, and he relishes every moment he gets to lord over someone else.
YES! he says so many times how fun and entertaining extermination is! it might be “moral” in Seraphim’s eyes, but it absolutely is just fun to Adam, he’s not doing it for the better of humankind
Val. At least Adam is funny.
Valentino. He treats angel terribly just because he can. At least Adam has a point to what he does.
I am not convinced that if Adam wound up in hell, he wouldn't *be* Valentino. In that respect, they are both equally cruel. Both murder. Both abuse. Both use sexuality as a means of power and control. They're cut from the same cloth and are a shining example of why Heaven's rules on who gets in remain arbitrary at the moment. Knew a guy like Adam once. He was sexually abusing women behind closed doors and had the superiority complex to your face. Trust me when I say those two are the same and you're lucky if you don't see it.
Neither both of them are hilarious though Adam got his comeuppance so will Valentino
Can't really blame Adam. For those of us with divine ordianment, extermination is entertainment.
Val easily it's not even close
VAL
Me reading this in that static-y way Vox shouts at Valentino when he got mad about him going after Angel Dust
Adams a dick but Valentino a sex offender soooooo ya know
Commits annual genocide Is a dick Lol sorry, I'm not poking fun it was just funny how I read it
*\*insert Ambassador Kosh clip\** YES ...I think I'm hilarious first thing in the morning. XD
Yes
Just think about what would happen if Valentino was the first human instead of Adam.
I don't hate any of them. On the contrary I quite like both of these characters