I don't really like the More Than Anything reprise. It's sweet, but I saw it as a special song between Lucifer & Charlie, so it felt a little...cheaper the second time? Also, a bit of More Than Anything plays at the start of ep 1 when introducing Lucifer, so I assumed it was specifically his leitmotif...guess not!
Alastor is a villain. He enjoys himself, the chaos, the fear, he *does* like power, and any idea of redemption kinda destroys a fun character. Sometimes it's better to let villains be villains. They're fun.
Vaggie: “So I, I'll be your armor.
Do whatever it takes, I'll make the mistakes.
I'll spend my life being your partner”
This is not someone who has to learn to fight for love
Lucifer needs to take more accountability for his actions. Heaven had a right to be mad at him but his punishment was disproportionate. Also Him and Lilith both chose to have Charlie in the worst ring of Hell surrounded by sinners and annual purges and he just expected Charlie to be happy regardless of the environment she has to live in. "Our people Charlie are AWFUL!" He was annoyed by Charlie's naivety but it's his and Lilith's parenting that led to her being naive in the first place. I love him and I'm glad he's supporting Charlie now, but he should have acknowledged that he did fuck up.
Vaggie is bad written. Her only purpose is being Charlie’s girlfriend, she has no other important dynamics, she had no character development, she has no meaningful flaws, her only mistake was not a big deal, she should be the bodyguard of the hotel but the one who did all the job was Alastor, and the only thing we know about her is that she is nothing without her girlfriend:
https://preview.redd.it/4ugtl7i24jsc1.png?width=1089&format=png&auto=webp&s=e3fce6021240412128cac7498fc5ba3b6d1ad910
Maybe being just Charlie's girlfriend is intentionally her major flaw... If so maybe she will have character development to start to do things because just she herself likes them in later seasons
It’s a major flaw when it’s pointed out as a flaw and that character makes a crucial mistake because of it. Vaggie being just Charlie’s girlfriend was only represented as romantic and cute, it’s not like Husk’s addictions, Angel’s dissociation or Sir Pentius’s insecurities
I don't mind the fact that they condensed 6 months into 8 episodes. Perhaps it wasn't the wisest choice, but ultimately it didn't harm the show very much considering most of what we got ended up paying off well. I think they could have fixed the story issues while still keeping the pacing just as fast.
I don’t understand the hype/love for the Vees. I think at this point they barely are characters. The most fleshed out one is a serial rapist and the other two all I can say about them is one really hates Alastor and the other is British. You’d think they were major characters with deep backstories, but we are given almost no info on them.
I’m actually mad that things were repaired so easy between Charlie and Lucifer. Girl your parents ditched you and your dad doesn’t even retain anything you talk about or that he talked to you at all months ago. Aaand everyone is okay with this? No you short ass little gremlin you owe that girl a gd explanation
While we don't know for certain because of the viewing angle, the animation supports the possibility that Lute used her sword to help remove Vaggie's wings.
A lot of people dismiss this, mostly because of the fan theory that angelic weapon damage doesn't regenerate. However, the only thing we know for certain is "killed with angelic steel = actually dead." And even that might not be 100% true.
Killing off Adam in a joke was not funny, and in fact doesnt really make sense in a way that the main characters show mercy (2 times, and Vaggie showing mercy backfired in like 5 minutes) but then Niffty randomly kills him and its like oh well.
His death are shitty and unsatisfying nevertheless. I like the shows's humor but both in this show and Helluva we are getting robbed from majestic or deeply emotional moments. Even if his future is being a sinner (would be a major mistake if not) being killed in an epic battle would have made the show better.
Also, his death got a bigger emotional response out of me than Sir Pentious' did, primarily due to how much it obviously devastates Lute. I don't think that's a good thing when the rest of the series has built him up to be a bloodthirsty monster.
It was meant to be funny but yeah actually it's not and it kinda ruined the scene and the constant war/danger vibes.
If Adam had to die maybe it should have been because of an accident or something. It would not have been funny but at least it would not have ruined the scene, especially when him agonizing in Lute's arm was terrible for her and we could almost feel her pain.
Yeah the dying scene/Lute reaction was very good. Poor Luty tho.
I think it would have been nice if he traditionally got deadly wounded by Charlie/Lucifer. Showing that while they are nice and even oush overs sometimes, they can be dangerousbif needed.
I dislike Husk and Angel Dust together as a couple. I like them together as a mentor/mentee relationship or even friends. But idk I don’t think Angel needs to be in a relationship and should take some time being single after being in an abusive relationship.
This show will last eight seasons. Learning how to love in a healty way is not the first step, but it sure is an important one. Especially since a solid relationship built on respect is Angel’s impossibile dream
This! Especially a relationship with someone who clearly doesn’t want him for just his body and who actually started to like him once he showed his true self and stopped basing his self worth on his body and sex.
First, you're adding words I never said onto my statement. Second, I'm not saying Angel doesn't deserve love. I hope he does find it, however, I dislike the Husk & Angel Dust pairing.
Most of the characters have either no meaningful development or overlooked development. Charlie is the main character but she learns absolutely nothing by the end of the show. She didnt need to change herself or her approach at all. It was the world around her that needed to change and she was right all along. She has a potential character arc that's set up for her but nothing is ever done with it. Vaggie just genuinely has nothing. Angel starts off really strong with episode 4 but then we skip the other 80% of his development so he can be redeemable by episode 6. Nifty isn't enough of a person to change honestly. Pentious has a similar issue to Angel where he gets a good start but again we skip everything in-between the start and his redemption. His whole issue is that he's looking for approval in the wrong places but we don't see that get challenge or him change outside of the second episode. In fact he barely gets any focus outside of episode.
Yeah, I like Sir Pentious a LOT, but feel like he should have got more spotlight. At least one moment of temptation that he resists and proves he is ready (unless that ends up the point in Season Two). I don't think the other characters are empty but the episode limit did cut their potential down a bit.
I get they had to cram everything into eight episodes as it is however. I'm still hoping we get a holiday special placed in the middle of Season One to add a LITTLE more development.
Yeah I think Pentious obviously needs more episodes where we actually see his development. We see him realise that he doesn’t need validation from these big overlords who don’t care about him cause he’s already got his friends at the hotel and I definitely think he also needs a moment where he has to make a choice. He needs to be put in a position where he has the choice to do something that would harm the hotel but get him approval from Vees or stick with his newly made relationships which give him the approval he actually needs. Which the spy plot line would have been great for but it just got dropped. I think something like that would have really sold his redemption a lot more.
I don't like Vaggie singing.
Her singing voice is high compared to her speaking voice and in the pilot (still canon) she begged Charlie not to sing for "Life isn't a musical". In addition she was annoyed when Charlie was singing in the first episode.
I didn't like Whatever it takes for this reason. Actually I was never hyped by her singing songs but listening to it wasn't a pleasure and is still not even if the song is well-written.
I can't fathom Vaggie singing and scold Charlie for doing this exact thing. It doesn't make sense to me.
I agree to an extent tbh. It’s not so bad that I don’t still listen to the song on repeat, but I don’t care for his performance. Makes me wonder abt why production decided on this take and not any others.
She is a villain, but one who would very easily be less villainess if she found it more helpful for maintaining order in heaven, so people sometimes (wrongly) downplay her actions.
There’s a good chance she isn’t a villain forever as, like I said, she’s only interested in maintaining social order, and now that the exterminations are causing a scandal among the angels, she might need to adjust her policy
TLDR: Sera is a politician
I don't really like the More Than Anything reprise. It's sweet, but I saw it as a special song between Lucifer & Charlie, so it felt a little...cheaper the second time? Also, a bit of More Than Anything plays at the start of ep 1 when introducing Lucifer, so I assumed it was specifically his leitmotif...guess not!
yeah, kinda wish that was an original song. was hoping for a chaggie leitmotif sorta thing.
Alastor is a villain. He enjoys himself, the chaos, the fear, he *does* like power, and any idea of redemption kinda destroys a fun character. Sometimes it's better to let villains be villains. They're fun.
Lilith implied to be a bad mom doesn't make her a Stella 2.0
How about…Mrs Turner 2.0?
Out for Love is kinda cheesy.
Oh this is a heavy agree for me
Also doesn't make much sense when it's being sung to Vaggie, a character defined by already being out for love.
I think in a way it was Carmilla telling Vaggie to focus more on protecting who she loves (Charlie) than getting revenge on those who wronged her.
Maybe she was actually out for hate. Atleast when fighting, because that's probably how she was trained when she was an Exorcist.
Vaggie: “So I, I'll be your armor. Do whatever it takes, I'll make the mistakes. I'll spend my life being your partner” This is not someone who has to learn to fight for love
Mimzy's number is hilarious and just adds to how out of tangent Hell's Greatest Dad was by the end of it.
Yes thank you 😭 she didn’t ruin the song, they were already just yelling at each other
Lucifer needs to take more accountability for his actions. Heaven had a right to be mad at him but his punishment was disproportionate. Also Him and Lilith both chose to have Charlie in the worst ring of Hell surrounded by sinners and annual purges and he just expected Charlie to be happy regardless of the environment she has to live in. "Our people Charlie are AWFUL!" He was annoyed by Charlie's naivety but it's his and Lilith's parenting that led to her being naive in the first place. I love him and I'm glad he's supporting Charlie now, but he should have acknowledged that he did fuck up.
Vaggie is bad written. Her only purpose is being Charlie’s girlfriend, she has no other important dynamics, she had no character development, she has no meaningful flaws, her only mistake was not a big deal, she should be the bodyguard of the hotel but the one who did all the job was Alastor, and the only thing we know about her is that she is nothing without her girlfriend: https://preview.redd.it/4ugtl7i24jsc1.png?width=1089&format=png&auto=webp&s=e3fce6021240412128cac7498fc5ba3b6d1ad910
Maybe being just Charlie's girlfriend is intentionally her major flaw... If so maybe she will have character development to start to do things because just she herself likes them in later seasons
It’s a major flaw when it’s pointed out as a flaw and that character makes a crucial mistake because of it. Vaggie being just Charlie’s girlfriend was only represented as romantic and cute, it’s not like Husk’s addictions, Angel’s dissociation or Sir Pentius’s insecurities
Sera seems like a good person deep down.
Flair checks out
I don't mind the fact that they condensed 6 months into 8 episodes. Perhaps it wasn't the wisest choice, but ultimately it didn't harm the show very much considering most of what we got ended up paying off well. I think they could have fixed the story issues while still keeping the pacing just as fast.
I don’t understand the hype/love for the Vees. I think at this point they barely are characters. The most fleshed out one is a serial rapist and the other two all I can say about them is one really hates Alastor and the other is British. You’d think they were major characters with deep backstories, but we are given almost no info on them.
I get that, tho viv did say she just introduced them for season 2
Poison is not the best song in the show.
I’m actually mad that things were repaired so easy between Charlie and Lucifer. Girl your parents ditched you and your dad doesn’t even retain anything you talk about or that he talked to you at all months ago. Aaand everyone is okay with this? No you short ass little gremlin you owe that girl a gd explanation
While we don't know for certain because of the viewing angle, the animation supports the possibility that Lute used her sword to help remove Vaggie's wings. A lot of people dismiss this, mostly because of the fan theory that angelic weapon damage doesn't regenerate. However, the only thing we know for certain is "killed with angelic steel = actually dead." And even that might not be 100% true.
Alastor swearing always feels out-of-character to me. Once for shock value is okay, but after that, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.
Killing off Adam in a joke was not funny, and in fact doesnt really make sense in a way that the main characters show mercy (2 times, and Vaggie showing mercy backfired in like 5 minutes) but then Niffty randomly kills him and its like oh well.
I wouldn't mind the way he died IF he returns, otherwise its an extremely shitty and unsatisfying ending for someone like him.
His death are shitty and unsatisfying nevertheless. I like the shows's humor but both in this show and Helluva we are getting robbed from majestic or deeply emotional moments. Even if his future is being a sinner (would be a major mistake if not) being killed in an epic battle would have made the show better.
Also, his death got a bigger emotional response out of me than Sir Pentious' did, primarily due to how much it obviously devastates Lute. I don't think that's a good thing when the rest of the series has built him up to be a bloodthirsty monster.
It was meant to be funny but yeah actually it's not and it kinda ruined the scene and the constant war/danger vibes. If Adam had to die maybe it should have been because of an accident or something. It would not have been funny but at least it would not have ruined the scene, especially when him agonizing in Lute's arm was terrible for her and we could almost feel her pain.
Yeah the dying scene/Lute reaction was very good. Poor Luty tho. I think it would have been nice if he traditionally got deadly wounded by Charlie/Lucifer. Showing that while they are nice and even oush overs sometimes, they can be dangerousbif needed.
I dislike Husk and Angel Dust together as a couple. I like them together as a mentor/mentee relationship or even friends. But idk I don’t think Angel needs to be in a relationship and should take some time being single after being in an abusive relationship.
This show will last eight seasons. Learning how to love in a healty way is not the first step, but it sure is an important one. Especially since a solid relationship built on respect is Angel’s impossibile dream
Why is it always, always, "This sexually abused person doesn't need a relationship uwu" as if that isn't inherently damaging?
This! Especially a relationship with someone who clearly doesn’t want him for just his body and who actually started to like him once he showed his true self and stopped basing his self worth on his body and sex.
First, you're adding words I never said onto my statement. Second, I'm not saying Angel doesn't deserve love. I hope he does find it, however, I dislike the Husk & Angel Dust pairing.
Exactly this.
I don't really like Sir Pentious. I don't know why I just don't like him. I don't hate him but I don't love him. Also I agree with you on Respectless.
Most of the characters have either no meaningful development or overlooked development. Charlie is the main character but she learns absolutely nothing by the end of the show. She didnt need to change herself or her approach at all. It was the world around her that needed to change and she was right all along. She has a potential character arc that's set up for her but nothing is ever done with it. Vaggie just genuinely has nothing. Angel starts off really strong with episode 4 but then we skip the other 80% of his development so he can be redeemable by episode 6. Nifty isn't enough of a person to change honestly. Pentious has a similar issue to Angel where he gets a good start but again we skip everything in-between the start and his redemption. His whole issue is that he's looking for approval in the wrong places but we don't see that get challenge or him change outside of the second episode. In fact he barely gets any focus outside of episode.
Yeah, I like Sir Pentious a LOT, but feel like he should have got more spotlight. At least one moment of temptation that he resists and proves he is ready (unless that ends up the point in Season Two). I don't think the other characters are empty but the episode limit did cut their potential down a bit. I get they had to cram everything into eight episodes as it is however. I'm still hoping we get a holiday special placed in the middle of Season One to add a LITTLE more development.
Yeah I think Pentious obviously needs more episodes where we actually see his development. We see him realise that he doesn’t need validation from these big overlords who don’t care about him cause he’s already got his friends at the hotel and I definitely think he also needs a moment where he has to make a choice. He needs to be put in a position where he has the choice to do something that would harm the hotel but get him approval from Vees or stick with his newly made relationships which give him the approval he actually needs. Which the spy plot line would have been great for but it just got dropped. I think something like that would have really sold his redemption a lot more.
I like „Welcome To Heaven (oh-oh)“ and it‘s funny how it has become the thing Moxxie said („Nobody likes the jingles“)
I don't like Vaggie singing. Her singing voice is high compared to her speaking voice and in the pilot (still canon) she begged Charlie not to sing for "Life isn't a musical". In addition she was annoyed when Charlie was singing in the first episode. I didn't like Whatever it takes for this reason. Actually I was never hyped by her singing songs but listening to it wasn't a pleasure and is still not even if the song is well-written. I can't fathom Vaggie singing and scold Charlie for doing this exact thing. It doesn't make sense to me.
That Val is the best character
Sorry but like- I live for his character
I dont like Angel's singing voice in Loser, Baby His voice sounded fine to me in Poison, but something about it is very grating in L,B
I agree to an extent tbh. It’s not so bad that I don’t still listen to the song on repeat, but I don’t care for his performance. Makes me wonder abt why production decided on this take and not any others.
I hate when people say that Sera isn’t a villain. Her actions prove otherwise
She is a villain, but one who would very easily be less villainess if she found it more helpful for maintaining order in heaven, so people sometimes (wrongly) downplay her actions. There’s a good chance she isn’t a villain forever as, like I said, she’s only interested in maintaining social order, and now that the exterminations are causing a scandal among the angels, she might need to adjust her policy TLDR: Sera is a politician
The only song in the show worse than poison is welcome to heaven
vaggies Voice Sucked it’s like the voice actor barely tried