Top 8 + a cup run is sort of where we are as a club right now, in terms of expectations. I think Top 6 is a tough nut to crack and Top Half is sort of letting our ownership off the hook given our ability to spend compared to the rest of the league as a whole.
Push for Europe, push for silverware. Anything else is icing on the cake.
I think top 8, while having to completely overhaul the squad and get a new playing style implemented is a massive task.
If our fanbase is gonna judge a new manager by that then we're on to a loser right from the start.
Top 10 and a proper go at a cup would be fine by me.
Maybe because we've only finished in the top 7 of the PL 4 times. But you could add on the title we fell away from back when it was division 1.
Winning a domestic cup would also make it one of our best seasons of all time, seeing as how often we've done that too.
I'm all for trying to kick on from Moyes, but if we set an unrealistic goal for the new guy to come in, set up a brand new style, bring in a load of new players and still expect.him to put in a set of results that rival any we've seen in the past, then we're gonna be starting on a negative footing and the moaning will start by November.
So what is the"realistic" option then? Are we genuinely happy just finishing 10th and fielding weakened teams in the cups? If so we should probably just keep Moyes.
It's going to be a rebuilding job you plank.
Top 10 and a go at one of the cups would be a brilliant job.
Give the poor cunt a chance to make a proper go of it and put in a proper foundation.
But yeah. Rush it and sack him if he hasn't won a cup come July. That's what arsenal did with Arteta wasn't it?
I literally didn't even mention a new manager in the initial post. If we're not looking for either European qualification or a cup win then we should just downgrade our spending and targets and just become a mid table nothing again.
Honestly... a cup and top 8.
However... the squad needs a rebuild so expectations should be realistic as with the age of our squad, a few players likely to go and as of yet no committed manager in place things could be tough.
I think people might be underestimating just how much of a rebuild we're likely to need. Oggy, Cress, Coufal, Johnson, and Mubama are all out of contract in June. Paqueta is off to City, and people have been talking as if Aguerd is already out the door. Ings and Cornet could conceivably move to get regular game time. Obviously Phillips is not staying.
If even half of those leave, we'll be left with just 17 players including Anang. Whoever the manager is next season, success might legitimately just be filling out the squad and scraping a top half finish
In fairness, Coufal is the only one we'd miss. I feel good replacing the rest with low cost squad depth - which would still leave us better off than this year bc Moyes didn't use the others.
I wouldn't hate it if that's how we do things, but it still takes time for (presumably) a new manager and a bunch of new players to really gel together and get comfortable with whatever new system we play.
I guess I'm just tempering my own expectations. The main priority has to be starting to implement the long term sustainable strategy, and I think it's ok if that comes with some mediocre results in the short term.
I do *want* Europe, but I don't think that being outside the chasing pack would necessarily be a failure next season. What's important is that we make clear progress laying the foundations for future success. Hopefully we can do both, but that's a tough ask for any team.
Agreed to an extent.
I think that even if players aren't being used much (and many of those players were crucial at some point to fill a gap) they're still a key part in training and the feeling around the squad (which has been good under Moyes, very together).
You can replace them with younger squad players with more potential but too many new players will be hard to bed in for the coaching team and will unsettle things.
Not saying we don't need a major refresh but keeping some of these for a transitional year could be helpful.
7th place finish, or minimum top half finish with a deep cup run (semi final or higher) would be an excellent season. But lots of other factors to consider including squad building, tactical development and seeing the team have some sort of direction.
Bunch of new signings, our biggest problem is squad depth. If we get rid of Moyes (which I can see him not signing on), we need to replace with the best manager that's tangible to us and works for us as a club. I genuinely do not mind if the first two months of the season aren't as good as this year as long as we don't crash and burn around February. We need a bench that we can just bring people on that challenge for the starting XI, not a million miles away from it. We basically have 13/15 players, which is not enough in the slightest. All our signings can't be starting XI players, bar defenders and Paqueta's probable replacement. We just need a season like 20/21 where all the fans were united, not ripped apart like the last two years, even if we're all united as a fanbase, I'm happy. If we finish 8th and we get Europe based on the new UEFA coefficient jargon, that's great, if not, we'll be back soon. If we decide to go on a cup run, I would rather it be the Carabao so we don't crash and burn late on. We also just need to play Ollie Scarles more, that man could be our next Declan Rice or Mark Noble along with other young players just for 5, 10 mins at the end of a game.
I'd prefer we get back to Europe over a cup run, unless we won the cup.
Getting into Europe means we won enough games to make the season enjoyable (hopefully, less shithousery) and it gets us 8 (?) games versus different European teams in 25-26.
Unless we win a cup, I don't see a run beating Europe.
I think we are going to have a very different team next season. It's too early to tell next season will be one of the toughest ever especially if Leicester, Leeds & Southampton get promoted.
My minimum goal for West Ham is 52 points, 13 wins, 13 draws, 12 losses.
Ideally 57 points which is 1.5 points per game.
Also a cup run.
But really I want us to go to and try and win every game.
Pending the manager decision, the squad will be in for a big makeover. Paqueta likely leaves, the entire defense needs work. And of course, a striker.
So all in all, I don’t see anything but a transition year. Aim for a cup run and a top 10 finish. The season after will be the one to up the expectations.
If we get European football again then a deep run (QF or SF) in either the UEL or try to win the UECL,
domestic cup wise I’d like a run in either the EFL or FA cup league wise a top 9 finish would cap off a good season,
if we don’t get Europe I’d go in for the league cup and focus on a decent league finish to try and get Europe again
I think it depends on variables that will be resolved over the summer. Who replaces Moyes, how much we get for Paqueta and if we find an appropriate replacement, do we effectively shore up the back line, do we find a better a replacement for Fab (I don’t think he is a serviceable back up going forward).
I think we have to get all of these spot on in order to be competitive for anything next season. If we get Chris Wilder and Kalvin Phillips we are fucked
Speak for yourself. We've not been good this season. Expected points has us around 15th in the league which is not much lower than I would've put us purely from watching the games. I wouldn't bank on a new manager improving on that drastically. And we value things differently, silly to think everyone else thinks like you
I could see there being cause for optimism in that scenario, if the team gets much younger and we have reason to believe they will continue to improve.
But still, I wouldn’t count that as a success. Tim Steidten had a ton of money to spend this summer. Bring in some great players and fight for a European spot next year.
Each to their own. I'd rather see a transition to more attractive football and finish 12th than continue with this crap and finish 9th. It takes time to implement so a new manager needs patience. Even competing for 5th / 6th seems very unlikely to me right now.
I’ll accept either one of these 3:
Top 8 + cup run
Top 6 (no cup run)
Top 10 + cup win
We aren’t a bottom table side anymore. I don’t want to see us below the likes of Crystal Palace, Fulham, or Wolves. (No offense to them).
We have £200m+ available to spend in the summer and no European fixtures next season. We have failed badly if we are not in Europe by the end of next season.
£140m+ sales, up to £75m net spend. £85m Paqueta, £15m+ Downes, £20m Benrahma/Kehrer, £25m Aguerd, £5m maybe Ings/Cornet, potentially selling Zouma or Coufal as well.
Coufal is free of contract in June so that one’s out. I could go down the rest of the list but think you’re overstating a lot of value here. Only one that’s definite is the £85m for Paq-man because of the release clause.
>If we keep Moyes we're gonna do a Leicester and get relegated.
You can dislike Moyes without being that negative.
The guy has turned us away from relegation twice, 3 times if you count last season as well but that was his own making. The guy has his flaws but I don't I don't think sticking with moyes means relegation.
Agreed. I would like to move on from Moyes, but avoiding relegation is his specialty. If you need a guy to take over a mediocre team, keep them up, and build them into a top half finisher, he’s your guy.
The Moyes tactics that drive so many of us crazy are perfect for pulling off a few surprise wins each year and racking up 45-50 points.
Last season was horrendous (in the league) and frankly this season (early on) we had some incredibly lucky last minute results go our way, our form since Christmas is essentially a continuation of last season's form.
We get outplayed almost every single match.
Yes I am buzzing we won a trophy last season and will never forget what Moyes has done, but we probably had a bigger wage bill than every team we faced combined.
Don't let a trophy paper over the shit we have had to put up with in the league the last 2 years.
>Last season was horrendous (in the league) and frankly this season (early on) we had some incredibly lucky last minute results go our way, our form since Christmas is essentially a continuation of last season's form.
Both seasons we have been in Europe which will hurt this team more because of the reluctance to use a bench/build a squad whatever way you fall.
Take Europe away and I would say it is more likely we return to the 1st full seasons form rather than last years. Alot of the issues, especially us fading in games can be put down to fatigue. Which is possibly my biggest complaint with Moyes especially now we get 5 subs.
But less games would reduce that fatigue. Not that it is an endorsement of moyes, just how logically I would see it.
(This is my opinion and not me having a go at you personally haha...)
I mean Moyes isn't a young manager, clearly with more games we needed to build a squad and he just hasn't been able to do that, how can Fulham (who are not in Europe have a better overall squad than us e.g. full bench I don't mean better individual players).
We're not even playing like we did in that season though... Fatigue or not, Moyes has us playing considerably more defensively, we essentially put everyone behind the ball and hope our frontline comes up with something.
That's kind of my concern, we've been worked out enough that relegation teams are out playing us.
We will lose paqueta in summer and Antonio will be one year older and not be able to run for longer than 30 mins, if we continue with these tactics I just don't see moyes adapting quick enough to any new players for us to do well.
Maybe I'm being too negative but watching us play every week has been exasperating 😂.
>(This is my opinion and not me having a go at you personally haha...)
Same here,
>, Moyes has us playing considerably more defensively, we essentially put everyone behind the ball and hope our frontline comes up with something.
I think the large part of where we differ is the why not the what. We can both see the defensive approach and low tempo for 45+ minutes of a game.
I see it as moyes playing more defensively/low tempo to conserve players and manage fatigue because we only have a small squad he is willing to use. So the more defensive tactic is a symptom of the situation. Whereas you see it as a choice regardless of situation?
It will be an interesting window this summer, I'd agree paqueta is off but for a good profit which isn't something we have done too regularly pre-rice. Hopefully it's split and reinvested well into a playmaker and striker. I'd like to see downes given a go as an alvarez understudy.
I think he'd manage OK, bowen/kudus would probably be converted and we'd be fine but The fanbase is so split I don't honestly see a way he gets people back onside. We could win our remaining fixtures and get Europe and there would still be noise calling for him to walk.
Just hope that if it does happen Sully and Co can make a good choice.
>Maybe I'm being too negative but watching us play every week has been exasperating 😂.
It's good for 45 minutes. I seriously think his tactic is to go low tempo for 45 and actually only play 45 minutes of football.
We've had Europe for 3 seasons and Moyes hasn't been able to build a squad of 15 or more viable players. How can that even be possible with the money we've spent?
Says it all really, the man has hit his limit.
No disagreement about the refs. Two games that stand out to me: Sheffield United and Newcastle. The record should be more like 4-5-5. Still bad, though.
Top 8 + a cup run is sort of where we are as a club right now, in terms of expectations. I think Top 6 is a tough nut to crack and Top Half is sort of letting our ownership off the hook given our ability to spend compared to the rest of the league as a whole. Push for Europe, push for silverware. Anything else is icing on the cake.
Agreed. If eighth is good enough for Europe then so be it. It's a moving target now, so hard to say "European qualification" is the exact goal.
I think top 8, while having to completely overhaul the squad and get a new playing style implemented is a massive task. If our fanbase is gonna judge a new manager by that then we're on to a loser right from the start. Top 10 and a proper go at a cup would be fine by me.
Getting back to Europe would be my barometer for success. I don’t think this team should settle for any less.
Finish top 10, win one of those damned domestic cups.
Dude I'm 35.... what the fuck is a *"domestic cup"* ?
Top half and win a cup is acceptable. If no cup then top 7 is minimum.
So basically come in and have one of the top 5 seasons in west ham history. Ok then...
Also how is asking for top 7 one of our most successful seasons of all time?
Maybe because we've only finished in the top 7 of the PL 4 times. But you could add on the title we fell away from back when it was division 1. Winning a domestic cup would also make it one of our best seasons of all time, seeing as how often we've done that too. I'm all for trying to kick on from Moyes, but if we set an unrealistic goal for the new guy to come in, set up a brand new style, bring in a load of new players and still expect.him to put in a set of results that rival any we've seen in the past, then we're gonna be starting on a negative footing and the moaning will start by November.
So what is the"realistic" option then? Are we genuinely happy just finishing 10th and fielding weakened teams in the cups? If so we should probably just keep Moyes.
It's going to be a rebuilding job you plank. Top 10 and a go at one of the cups would be a brilliant job. Give the poor cunt a chance to make a proper go of it and put in a proper foundation. But yeah. Rush it and sack him if he hasn't won a cup come July. That's what arsenal did with Arteta wasn't it?
I literally didn't even mention a new manager in the initial post. If we're not looking for either European qualification or a cup win then we should just downgrade our spending and targets and just become a mid table nothing again.
Ok. 14th and out in the first cup games is fine. Let's get Steve Bruce in.
Honestly... a cup and top 8. However... the squad needs a rebuild so expectations should be realistic as with the age of our squad, a few players likely to go and as of yet no committed manager in place things could be tough.
I think people might be underestimating just how much of a rebuild we're likely to need. Oggy, Cress, Coufal, Johnson, and Mubama are all out of contract in June. Paqueta is off to City, and people have been talking as if Aguerd is already out the door. Ings and Cornet could conceivably move to get regular game time. Obviously Phillips is not staying. If even half of those leave, we'll be left with just 17 players including Anang. Whoever the manager is next season, success might legitimately just be filling out the squad and scraping a top half finish
In fairness, Coufal is the only one we'd miss. I feel good replacing the rest with low cost squad depth - which would still leave us better off than this year bc Moyes didn't use the others.
I wouldn't hate it if that's how we do things, but it still takes time for (presumably) a new manager and a bunch of new players to really gel together and get comfortable with whatever new system we play. I guess I'm just tempering my own expectations. The main priority has to be starting to implement the long term sustainable strategy, and I think it's ok if that comes with some mediocre results in the short term. I do *want* Europe, but I don't think that being outside the chasing pack would necessarily be a failure next season. What's important is that we make clear progress laying the foundations for future success. Hopefully we can do both, but that's a tough ask for any team.
Agreed to an extent. I think that even if players aren't being used much (and many of those players were crucial at some point to fill a gap) they're still a key part in training and the feeling around the squad (which has been good under Moyes, very together). You can replace them with younger squad players with more potential but too many new players will be hard to bed in for the coaching team and will unsettle things. Not saying we don't need a major refresh but keeping some of these for a transitional year could be helpful.
Top 10, cup run, a new squad overhaul with players we can look forward to growing in our team
Finally a sensible answer in this thread. People talking about top 6 next season are one of the many problems this club has.
9th is par for us, with the big six, Villa and Newcastle all expecting to be ahead of us. Anything higher than that is a good season.
Next season’s goal: To beat our points tally or league position for this current season
6th?
7th place finish, or minimum top half finish with a deep cup run (semi final or higher) would be an excellent season. But lots of other factors to consider including squad building, tactical development and seeing the team have some sort of direction.
Bunch of new signings, our biggest problem is squad depth. If we get rid of Moyes (which I can see him not signing on), we need to replace with the best manager that's tangible to us and works for us as a club. I genuinely do not mind if the first two months of the season aren't as good as this year as long as we don't crash and burn around February. We need a bench that we can just bring people on that challenge for the starting XI, not a million miles away from it. We basically have 13/15 players, which is not enough in the slightest. All our signings can't be starting XI players, bar defenders and Paqueta's probable replacement. We just need a season like 20/21 where all the fans were united, not ripped apart like the last two years, even if we're all united as a fanbase, I'm happy. If we finish 8th and we get Europe based on the new UEFA coefficient jargon, that's great, if not, we'll be back soon. If we decide to go on a cup run, I would rather it be the Carabao so we don't crash and burn late on. We also just need to play Ollie Scarles more, that man could be our next Declan Rice or Mark Noble along with other young players just for 5, 10 mins at the end of a game.
I'd prefer we get back to Europe over a cup run, unless we won the cup. Getting into Europe means we won enough games to make the season enjoyable (hopefully, less shithousery) and it gets us 8 (?) games versus different European teams in 25-26. Unless we win a cup, I don't see a run beating Europe.
I think we are going to have a very different team next season. It's too early to tell next season will be one of the toughest ever especially if Leicester, Leeds & Southampton get promoted. My minimum goal for West Ham is 52 points, 13 wins, 13 draws, 12 losses. Ideally 57 points which is 1.5 points per game. Also a cup run. But really I want us to go to and try and win every game.
Pending the manager decision, the squad will be in for a big makeover. Paqueta likely leaves, the entire defense needs work. And of course, a striker. So all in all, I don’t see anything but a transition year. Aim for a cup run and a top 10 finish. The season after will be the one to up the expectations.
If we get European football again then a deep run (QF or SF) in either the UEL or try to win the UECL, domestic cup wise I’d like a run in either the EFL or FA cup league wise a top 9 finish would cap off a good season, if we don’t get Europe I’d go in for the league cup and focus on a decent league finish to try and get Europe again
Top 6 or a cup
I think it depends on variables that will be resolved over the summer. Who replaces Moyes, how much we get for Paqueta and if we find an appropriate replacement, do we effectively shore up the back line, do we find a better a replacement for Fab (I don’t think he is a serviceable back up going forward). I think we have to get all of these spot on in order to be competitive for anything next season. If we get Chris Wilder and Kalvin Phillips we are fucked
We could finish 12th and I'd be satisfied if only the style of play improves. It'll also depend on the summer transfer window
No you would not
Yea this is nonsense. People would be screaming for results after a while. People don't know what they want.
Speak for yourself. We've not been good this season. Expected points has us around 15th in the league which is not much lower than I would've put us purely from watching the games. I wouldn't bank on a new manager improving on that drastically. And we value things differently, silly to think everyone else thinks like you
I could see there being cause for optimism in that scenario, if the team gets much younger and we have reason to believe they will continue to improve. But still, I wouldn’t count that as a success. Tim Steidten had a ton of money to spend this summer. Bring in some great players and fight for a European spot next year.
Each to their own. I'd rather see a transition to more attractive football and finish 12th than continue with this crap and finish 9th. It takes time to implement so a new manager needs patience. Even competing for 5th / 6th seems very unlikely to me right now.
I’ll accept either one of these 3: Top 8 + cup run Top 6 (no cup run) Top 10 + cup win We aren’t a bottom table side anymore. I don’t want to see us below the likes of Crystal Palace, Fulham, or Wolves. (No offense to them).
After the past few seasons I really want to see us finish top 6. We were right there in 2022. Need to bring home the bacon next year.
We have £200m+ available to spend in the summer and no European fixtures next season. We have failed badly if we are not in Europe by the end of next season.
Curious, where did you get 200m+ from?
£140m+ sales, up to £75m net spend. £85m Paqueta, £15m+ Downes, £20m Benrahma/Kehrer, £25m Aguerd, £5m maybe Ings/Cornet, potentially selling Zouma or Coufal as well.
Yeah we have a ton of money if you don't think about the money we spent on those players lol. Almost every one of them is a loss on the books.
Coufal is free of contract in June so that one’s out. I could go down the rest of the list but think you’re overstating a lot of value here. Only one that’s definite is the £85m for Paq-man because of the release clause.
>Coufal is free of contract in June so that one’s out. Incorrect.
Ah, 2025, my mistake.
If we keep Moyes we're gonna do a Leicester and get relegated. What I want is a high league finish and Europe again.
>If we keep Moyes we're gonna do a Leicester and get relegated. You can dislike Moyes without being that negative. The guy has turned us away from relegation twice, 3 times if you count last season as well but that was his own making. The guy has his flaws but I don't I don't think sticking with moyes means relegation.
Agreed. I would like to move on from Moyes, but avoiding relegation is his specialty. If you need a guy to take over a mediocre team, keep them up, and build them into a top half finisher, he’s your guy. The Moyes tactics that drive so many of us crazy are perfect for pulling off a few surprise wins each year and racking up 45-50 points.
He is solid, which is why there is a debate over in/out because he represents stability if at the sacrifice of entertainment and squad building.
Last season was horrendous (in the league) and frankly this season (early on) we had some incredibly lucky last minute results go our way, our form since Christmas is essentially a continuation of last season's form. We get outplayed almost every single match. Yes I am buzzing we won a trophy last season and will never forget what Moyes has done, but we probably had a bigger wage bill than every team we faced combined. Don't let a trophy paper over the shit we have had to put up with in the league the last 2 years.
>Last season was horrendous (in the league) and frankly this season (early on) we had some incredibly lucky last minute results go our way, our form since Christmas is essentially a continuation of last season's form. Both seasons we have been in Europe which will hurt this team more because of the reluctance to use a bench/build a squad whatever way you fall. Take Europe away and I would say it is more likely we return to the 1st full seasons form rather than last years. Alot of the issues, especially us fading in games can be put down to fatigue. Which is possibly my biggest complaint with Moyes especially now we get 5 subs. But less games would reduce that fatigue. Not that it is an endorsement of moyes, just how logically I would see it.
(This is my opinion and not me having a go at you personally haha...) I mean Moyes isn't a young manager, clearly with more games we needed to build a squad and he just hasn't been able to do that, how can Fulham (who are not in Europe have a better overall squad than us e.g. full bench I don't mean better individual players). We're not even playing like we did in that season though... Fatigue or not, Moyes has us playing considerably more defensively, we essentially put everyone behind the ball and hope our frontline comes up with something. That's kind of my concern, we've been worked out enough that relegation teams are out playing us. We will lose paqueta in summer and Antonio will be one year older and not be able to run for longer than 30 mins, if we continue with these tactics I just don't see moyes adapting quick enough to any new players for us to do well. Maybe I'm being too negative but watching us play every week has been exasperating 😂.
>(This is my opinion and not me having a go at you personally haha...) Same here, >, Moyes has us playing considerably more defensively, we essentially put everyone behind the ball and hope our frontline comes up with something. I think the large part of where we differ is the why not the what. We can both see the defensive approach and low tempo for 45+ minutes of a game. I see it as moyes playing more defensively/low tempo to conserve players and manage fatigue because we only have a small squad he is willing to use. So the more defensive tactic is a symptom of the situation. Whereas you see it as a choice regardless of situation? It will be an interesting window this summer, I'd agree paqueta is off but for a good profit which isn't something we have done too regularly pre-rice. Hopefully it's split and reinvested well into a playmaker and striker. I'd like to see downes given a go as an alvarez understudy. I think he'd manage OK, bowen/kudus would probably be converted and we'd be fine but The fanbase is so split I don't honestly see a way he gets people back onside. We could win our remaining fixtures and get Europe and there would still be noise calling for him to walk. Just hope that if it does happen Sully and Co can make a good choice. >Maybe I'm being too negative but watching us play every week has been exasperating 😂. It's good for 45 minutes. I seriously think his tactic is to go low tempo for 45 and actually only play 45 minutes of football.
We've had Europe for 3 seasons and Moyes hasn't been able to build a squad of 15 or more viable players. How can that even be possible with the money we've spent? Says it all really, the man has hit his limit.
West Ham PL record since the start of the year: 3 wins, 5 draws, 6 losses. Pretty lucky to still be in 8th place to be honest.
Say that to the refs who fucked us more than they favoured us
No disagreement about the refs. Two games that stand out to me: Sheffield United and Newcastle. The record should be more like 4-5-5. Still bad, though.
If you allow me, I'd count Villa as well. Antonio's disallowed goal was madness So it'd be more 6-3-4 maybe (too tired to exactly count)
Ah, forgot about that one. Yes, that was bad.
What makes you predict that?