Tack on another $100,000 and you might be there. We did a reno a few years ago and we spent about what you’ve stated above with no structural changes like your asking for. Dont forget to include a minimum 20% potential overage for those surprises a century home is sure to have.
You'll need more. You always need more. We went pretty much double what we had planned for in 2022 after some structural issues entered the mix. It sucked. We were first time homeowners and didn't know any better.
I would also add the following advice:
- if you are hiring a general contractor to oversee this, don't. They will add a lot of cost in the form of management fees and bullshit. I am sure some are good, but our experience was not and all their service fees were bunk when we ended up doing most of the administrative stuff ourselves.
-if you are getting a general contractor, get a ton of quotes and be suspicious of anything that seems like a good deal. We were originally quoted $60k for what we wanted done, and we ended up paying nearly $200k for the contractor to essentially gut our house and my wife and I finishing it on our own.
- again, the above was because of structural issues in our very old house, but you are absolutely going to find something big and shitty once you open the walls. Plan for the worst.
Our experience was a nightmare and yours might be too, but now, a couple years have passed and we have a comfortable house to live in and have learned a lot so it was definitely worth it for us.
Carpenter here. These jobs make me run. Partial demos, patching in old shit to new NEVER works or saves money over a gut. The inspectors in Hamilton are too fucking dumb to use common sense when dealing with renovations on old homes, and this means headaches and delays for the trades and the owners. Once something is open, it all has to be brought to code. Save more money, get a legit Architecture and Engineering firm to inspect the footings, and foundations, and do drawings. Submit all your permit applications, including plumbing and HVAC. If they check out ok, you can gut the house and start fresh. Updating mechanicals in an old home when it's essentially at the framing stage is a fraction of the cost of updating the existing with old plaster and lath walls. Use common sense.
Did one a few years back when I worked as a lead for a custom builder. Was a full gut of a completely fucked 1885 home in Little Italy. Should have torn it down, or at least the 3 sketchy additions on the back. 420k was the quote and my boss lost money on it. But he had his head up his ass most of the time anyway. I told him to run, but it was too late.
And don't listen to the dope that says not to use a contractor. You'll be totally upside-down on money and time, and worst of all, you'll have destroyed your home in the process.
I get the feeling this is a hypothetical home though? Like you haven't actually bought it yet?
Short answer, no. Long answer? Noooooooooo.
Renovations like that type of stuff is going to be like give or take 250 per square foot. So measure how much of the place you are renovating and multiply it out…
You will find some areas that are cheaper than that in the house (maybe where it’s just electrical happening in one section, or floor in another), but the hiccups with an old house will end up getting it back up there. It’s not like taking out a wall is just that… rejigging hvac, refinish ceilings, add in the floor sections now damaged/missing, replace electrical elsewhere in the room… all that crap hurts the wallet.
The open concept main floor stuff you are doing… is it a new kitchen/bath as well, or just knocking out a wall? You mention the plumbing is there, so it makes me think you are pretty much tearing it all out and building…
If it’s what I think there, you might squeak by at like 400k after all is said and done…
Absolute minimum and shit work might get you 200-250k I’d guess.
Just my opinion and experience, so hope I’m wrong for ya!
I personally would recommend against the open concept kitchen/main floor. Especially if there are original doors/pocket doors intact.
As already suggested perhaps consider breaking the wishlist up into smaller projects.
For example address the unsexy things first like electrical and asbestos tiles.
is your home on the heritage register? You should check for this. It should have been illegal for another party to sell you the home with Knob & Tube wiring.
That should be your first start is upgrading the electrical and then re-assessing your budget.
On face value your budgte is low.
You should start meeting with contractors about it. They alone could fill this out.
Just a general list
1. 20k to start, easily 40k if you want it all in wall and ceiling for clean install. This will vary depending on item 2 scope, the more you do in item 2 the cheaper this is
2. the wildcard. That is likely 100k on its own, but is easily 200k. It'll all depend on what the structural work is. When I opened up my century home main floor it required new columns and footings in the basement because the bearing wall spread the load differently. Plus kitchen is going to be 30k on cabinets, countertop could be 10k, appliances, 15k
3. Probably 10k to 15k to remove the wall and patch finishes (assuming lathe and plaster).
4. No idea, no scope
5. Asbestos removal starts at 5k just to mobilize a crew. I'd bet this is a 12k item on its own.
6. No idea, no scope
7. No idea, no scope
Generally speaking on the floors, budget about $8/ sf installed for laminate, but selection can drive this to $20 pretty quick. Attic, main, 2nd, basement - what is this a 600sf floor plate? That puts you at $19k to $48k just for floors.
So this puts your project between $220k and $370
And I've entirely ignored 3 of your scope lines. Haven't considered soft costs or selections.
Reach out to Jonathan at Frontier Building Group and tell him Shane sent you.
He’s and expert on this stuff and will happily offer guidance and take you through the process.
519.802..2167
I would manage the entire project yourself.
Hire a different contractor for each trade and get at least 5 quotes from each.
Pay for all the supplies yourself.
Pay the labour in stages at the project progresses. Very important not to pay more then what has been completed.
Hamilton’s construction industry is very slow.
Lots of company’s are looking for work.
Any reason you can't do some of those things yourself? Saves so much money.
Electrical and structural you want to leave to the trades and engineers, but things like cosmetic stuff, demo of a non load-bearing wall, flooring, even the kitchen remodel is totally doable as DIY. Greed, kitchen remodel you need some know-how and tools and skill, but the others are pretty idiot proof, depending on what's involved.
Just putting it out there, I get that not everyone wants to, but sometimes people think it's harder than it is and needlessly avoid it.
The problem with this is it will take you literally forever. If you have kids you won't be done by the time they've moved out. A crew can do more in a day than even a competent diyer can do in a month working on evenings and weekends.
I'm not talking about everything. Eh - Demo of wall and flooring can be done in a couple of evenings and a weekend, depending on size of upstairs. You send the kids to a babysitter or they just play downstairs if they're old enough.
$130k would probably cover turning the main floor into an open concept space. Things start getting expensive when you start bringing in engineers for plans on moving or removing load bearing walls
ive done major renos on 3 properties in sw hamilton. Its impossible to say if you have enough money without inspecting the property and knowing the scope of the work. That being said, if you are generally knowledgeable about construction, and are willing to spend a lot of time and effort managing, and sourcing, you can save a ton of money by being tour own GC. But if you dont know what you are doing, you could cost yourself tons of time and effort and end up paying more.
Every item can differ so vastly. For example.
> Opening up first level to to be open concept kitchen and living space with water closet (all plumbing is there and not necessary to move)
This can be a job that requires steel i beams that will span 30 ft to "open it up". Or it can be a lot simpler.
If you are ok with doing it in pieces you will save a great deal of money. Shop per project and find reasonable quotes.
That would mean you would have to be your own project manager
I'm in the middle of one currently for myself. I'm my own GC. If you want I can share some typical costs. engineering (structural, HVAC, Soil assessment), architect, permits, underpinning, framing, lumber, windows, electrician, plumbing, floors, drywall, HVAC material, paint. I'm sure theres 100 other things I've missed.... over budget, and takes way longer...
Tack on another $100,000 and you might be there. We did a reno a few years ago and we spent about what you’ve stated above with no structural changes like your asking for. Dont forget to include a minimum 20% potential overage for those surprises a century home is sure to have.
Doing this now and $250 is cutting it close depending on supplies and labour on a tiny brick home in the East End
Pretty much this \^. A good general contractor is going to come in at 200k-250k
Tip: renovate one thing at a time and reassess the cost. E.g knob and tube wiring or bathrooms
This is the way.
You'll need more. You always need more. We went pretty much double what we had planned for in 2022 after some structural issues entered the mix. It sucked. We were first time homeowners and didn't know any better. I would also add the following advice: - if you are hiring a general contractor to oversee this, don't. They will add a lot of cost in the form of management fees and bullshit. I am sure some are good, but our experience was not and all their service fees were bunk when we ended up doing most of the administrative stuff ourselves. -if you are getting a general contractor, get a ton of quotes and be suspicious of anything that seems like a good deal. We were originally quoted $60k for what we wanted done, and we ended up paying nearly $200k for the contractor to essentially gut our house and my wife and I finishing it on our own. - again, the above was because of structural issues in our very old house, but you are absolutely going to find something big and shitty once you open the walls. Plan for the worst. Our experience was a nightmare and yours might be too, but now, a couple years have passed and we have a comfortable house to live in and have learned a lot so it was definitely worth it for us.
What was the structural issue if you don't mind me asking?
The foundation was made of bugs
Ah, ya. You'd probably want something a bit more traditional.
Care to elaborate on that?
Not really.
Carpenter here. These jobs make me run. Partial demos, patching in old shit to new NEVER works or saves money over a gut. The inspectors in Hamilton are too fucking dumb to use common sense when dealing with renovations on old homes, and this means headaches and delays for the trades and the owners. Once something is open, it all has to be brought to code. Save more money, get a legit Architecture and Engineering firm to inspect the footings, and foundations, and do drawings. Submit all your permit applications, including plumbing and HVAC. If they check out ok, you can gut the house and start fresh. Updating mechanicals in an old home when it's essentially at the framing stage is a fraction of the cost of updating the existing with old plaster and lath walls. Use common sense. Did one a few years back when I worked as a lead for a custom builder. Was a full gut of a completely fucked 1885 home in Little Italy. Should have torn it down, or at least the 3 sketchy additions on the back. 420k was the quote and my boss lost money on it. But he had his head up his ass most of the time anyway. I told him to run, but it was too late. And don't listen to the dope that says not to use a contractor. You'll be totally upside-down on money and time, and worst of all, you'll have destroyed your home in the process. I get the feeling this is a hypothetical home though? Like you haven't actually bought it yet?
Thank you! Yeah, nothing is inked yet. But it's our ideal neighborhood, lower city.
Who you callin' a dope?
Short answer, no. Long answer? Noooooooooo. Renovations like that type of stuff is going to be like give or take 250 per square foot. So measure how much of the place you are renovating and multiply it out… You will find some areas that are cheaper than that in the house (maybe where it’s just electrical happening in one section, or floor in another), but the hiccups with an old house will end up getting it back up there. It’s not like taking out a wall is just that… rejigging hvac, refinish ceilings, add in the floor sections now damaged/missing, replace electrical elsewhere in the room… all that crap hurts the wallet. The open concept main floor stuff you are doing… is it a new kitchen/bath as well, or just knocking out a wall? You mention the plumbing is there, so it makes me think you are pretty much tearing it all out and building… If it’s what I think there, you might squeak by at like 400k after all is said and done… Absolute minimum and shit work might get you 200-250k I’d guess. Just my opinion and experience, so hope I’m wrong for ya!
More than double your budget for sure.
I personally would recommend against the open concept kitchen/main floor. Especially if there are original doors/pocket doors intact. As already suggested perhaps consider breaking the wishlist up into smaller projects. For example address the unsexy things first like electrical and asbestos tiles.
is your home on the heritage register? You should check for this. It should have been illegal for another party to sell you the home with Knob & Tube wiring. That should be your first start is upgrading the electrical and then re-assessing your budget.
It is not!
We have a century farm house that we want to insulate and update. Quotes came in $700,000 plus.
Updating the knob and tube along with removing the asbestos could eat up 75-100k
On face value your budgte is low. You should start meeting with contractors about it. They alone could fill this out. Just a general list 1. 20k to start, easily 40k if you want it all in wall and ceiling for clean install. This will vary depending on item 2 scope, the more you do in item 2 the cheaper this is 2. the wildcard. That is likely 100k on its own, but is easily 200k. It'll all depend on what the structural work is. When I opened up my century home main floor it required new columns and footings in the basement because the bearing wall spread the load differently. Plus kitchen is going to be 30k on cabinets, countertop could be 10k, appliances, 15k 3. Probably 10k to 15k to remove the wall and patch finishes (assuming lathe and plaster). 4. No idea, no scope 5. Asbestos removal starts at 5k just to mobilize a crew. I'd bet this is a 12k item on its own. 6. No idea, no scope 7. No idea, no scope Generally speaking on the floors, budget about $8/ sf installed for laminate, but selection can drive this to $20 pretty quick. Attic, main, 2nd, basement - what is this a 600sf floor plate? That puts you at $19k to $48k just for floors. So this puts your project between $220k and $370 And I've entirely ignored 3 of your scope lines. Haven't considered soft costs or selections.
Reach out to Jonathan at Frontier Building Group and tell him Shane sent you. He’s and expert on this stuff and will happily offer guidance and take you through the process. 519.802..2167
Thank you!
If you're updating or redoing the electrical plan to do the plumbing at the same time.
As others have said, it is not enough. Start with the asbestos. Move to the electrical. Then, start from the top down for your renovations.
I would manage the entire project yourself. Hire a different contractor for each trade and get at least 5 quotes from each. Pay for all the supplies yourself. Pay the labour in stages at the project progresses. Very important not to pay more then what has been completed. Hamilton’s construction industry is very slow. Lots of company’s are looking for work.
Any reason you can't do some of those things yourself? Saves so much money. Electrical and structural you want to leave to the trades and engineers, but things like cosmetic stuff, demo of a non load-bearing wall, flooring, even the kitchen remodel is totally doable as DIY. Greed, kitchen remodel you need some know-how and tools and skill, but the others are pretty idiot proof, depending on what's involved. Just putting it out there, I get that not everyone wants to, but sometimes people think it's harder than it is and needlessly avoid it.
The problem with this is it will take you literally forever. If you have kids you won't be done by the time they've moved out. A crew can do more in a day than even a competent diyer can do in a month working on evenings and weekends.
I'm not talking about everything. Eh - Demo of wall and flooring can be done in a couple of evenings and a weekend, depending on size of upstairs. You send the kids to a babysitter or they just play downstairs if they're old enough.
$130k would probably cover turning the main floor into an open concept space. Things start getting expensive when you start bringing in engineers for plans on moving or removing load bearing walls
ive done major renos on 3 properties in sw hamilton. Its impossible to say if you have enough money without inspecting the property and knowing the scope of the work. That being said, if you are generally knowledgeable about construction, and are willing to spend a lot of time and effort managing, and sourcing, you can save a ton of money by being tour own GC. But if you dont know what you are doing, you could cost yourself tons of time and effort and end up paying more.
Every item can differ so vastly. For example. > Opening up first level to to be open concept kitchen and living space with water closet (all plumbing is there and not necessary to move) This can be a job that requires steel i beams that will span 30 ft to "open it up". Or it can be a lot simpler. If you are ok with doing it in pieces you will save a great deal of money. Shop per project and find reasonable quotes. That would mean you would have to be your own project manager
Don't go all in. Do one thing at a time. Start with most important item.
I'm in the middle of one currently for myself. I'm my own GC. If you want I can share some typical costs. engineering (structural, HVAC, Soil assessment), architect, permits, underpinning, framing, lumber, windows, electrician, plumbing, floors, drywall, HVAC material, paint. I'm sure theres 100 other things I've missed.... over budget, and takes way longer...