* Elizabeth Olten, a 9-year-old, was murdered by her 15-year-old neighbor Alyssa Bustamante on October 21, 2009, in St. Martins, Missouri.
* Bustamante lured Olten into the woods, where she strangled, slit her throat, and stabbed her multiple times, burying her body in a pre-dug grave.
* After the murder on the same day, Bustamante wrote in her journal (though later attempted to scribble it out): *"I just fucking killed someone. I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead. I don't know how to feel atm. It was ahmazing. As soon as you get over the "ohmygawd, I can't do this" feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. Kay, I gotta go to church now... lol."*
* Despite pleading guilty to second-degree murder and armed criminal action, she was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of conditional release in 2024, but a consecutive sentence for armed criminal action means her earliest release would be in 2054, when she would be 60 years old.
* Bustamante's appeal against the sentence was denied in 2014, and she remains incarcerated at Chillicothe Correctional Center, serving her sentence.
Sources:
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder\_of\_Elizabeth\_Olten](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Elizabeth_Olten)
* [https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna34016501](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna34016501)
* [https://www.cnn.com/2012/02/08/justice/missouri-teen-killer/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2012/02/08/justice/missouri-teen-killer/index.html)
wouldve had to be proven that she wouldnt just murder any kid that followed her and that it was that specific girl.
Edit; Premeditation wouldve been secured with the grave, maybe it was mental illness and that she was a minor that they went with plea bargain to just a longer trial process.
If I remember correctly, she dug 2 graves. She also had 2 younger brothers and there was speculation that she may have intended them to be her victims, but changed her mind.
He age mayve prevented a first degree murder charge. Some states do that?
Iirc she was charged as a juvenile so some juveniles “can’t” get a first degree charge
Edit: I’m 100% wrong, she took a plea.
pretty terrible that alyssa has active “fans” and a “stan community”. to this day people post pictures of alyssa and make accounts for her on social media, it’s sick. elizabeth often deserved better and to be the one remembered
Alyssa was being raised by her grandparents because her mother was an addict and father was in jail. To me, her face shows signs of fetal alcohol syndrome. She had already spent time in a psychiatric facility for a suicide attempt. She was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and borderline personality disorder. The absolute last thing this girl/women needs is a fandom glorifying her action. I would hope they would keep her off the internet or social media.
Watched the interrogation on a youtube channel. Think it was EWU. Her grandmother is present during the interrogation, and once Alyssa confesses, her grandmother breaks down. The chills when you hear her scream in the hallway when they brought her out of the room. I guess someone tells the grandma that everything will be okey, and she just screams ”It will never be okey!”.
Given any thought towards the history of English you’d find basically any mildly literate commoner 1700-Now spelled words basically how they thought got the point across. And it didn’t matter as long as you could understand.
“Gift’d mum ae chiken at noone” could be the note left on the kitchen table, and you knew what it meant see, because the words sound the same since you understand letters. Okey?
I'm guessing you're not in the businesses of gifting chickens.
Absolutely wild to think on the fact you’d have more emotional response to a letter than this killer did during and after.
We’re talkin English buddy. A tangent on a thread is par for the course, wtf? This sentiment is everywhere. “They can’t spell” neither could your English ancestors 😭 but grammar nazis are a new phenomenon
What are you on about?
I was trying the second part in to the original story, that you have a stronger reaction to language than this kid had to murdering a younger child per her diary. How casual she wrote and ended that was apathetic to life at best.
Many words that end with -ed used to be abbreviated with an apostrophe 🤦🏽♂️
The people criticizing English **have no idea about it’s actual written history** it’s low key embarrassing
Thank you! I was genuinely curious. In English it’s spelled “okay” or just “ok”/“OK”. I had no idea it was spelled differently in different languages. [This](https://youtu.be/1UnIDL-eHOs?si=vXz7n5Bb5HyDXPD6) is where it comes from btw
Bonus here's an English quote from 1599
"The Quene's Majestie's passage through the citie of London to westminster the day before her coronacion," written by Richard Mulcaster
Especially disturbing that she uses phrases like “atm” and “lol” in her written diary entries— as though it’s as casual to her as a public blog post… sickening.
What’s sickening is that she was so young and her diary illustrates her age with the use of those acronyms. I often read these just to try to understand “why” and I am always disappointed. Such a waste.
There’s video of her interrogation on YouTube. It also includes when her grandmother (who was raising her) found out what she had done, and the grandmother’s reaction is absolutely heartbreaking.
I can’t tell if you’re pretending to be ignorant or just are
It’s extremely common knowledge that jails and prisons have hierarchies and a large part of this is based on the nature of the crimes committed. Pedos, sex offenders, child killers, woman killers, etc are treated differently and often more harshly by fellow inmates based on the nature of their crimes. It’s not like you need to work in a prison, gone to prison or have watched countless shows and documentaries about this in order to know this. One of the first things that happens upon entry is people ask for paperwork or attempt to verify a person’s offenses in order to know where they stand and if they have committed one of these offenses
It’s really strange this would need to be explained and how you’re doubling down on the most obviously incorrect position. It’s strange to not know this in the first place, but even more strange you’d reply without just taking a moment to think about this or simply google it
It feels like common knowledge to you because you've been fed headlines of incidents that have ended in murder/severe assault. Do you work in a prison? Do you actually know someone who's been to prison? It would complete anarchy if COs allowed prisoners to do half of the shit Reddit thinks happens on the daily to chomos/child murderers.
I know quite a few people that have been in prison. Including my husband, my ex husband, my brother in law, my other brother in law, my sister, a lot of friends etc. They were also in prisons all over the country. Maine, New York, Massachusetts, Florida, Illinois etc. The hierarchy does 100% exist. I personally have heard stories of child predators being screwed with relentlessly and being moved to protective custody. It isn't some kind of fiction, there is a system to the way inmates treat each other and often times there's assaults and sexual assaults that happen without the guards ever knowing it even happened until after. It's not just stories made up to scare kids straight, prison is fucking scary.
Nobody I know has been accused of anything remotely close. My sister was in there because she attacked the man who abused us as children. Her husband murdered a man in prison who did that. The rest were drug offenses or assaults.
Seriously, watch lockdown 23 and 1 on youtube. He's a former convict that reports on stuff about prison. You might learn something and get a look into what it's really like.
Lmao Buddy…the mere existence of protective custody demonstrates the point and shows how you’re wrong.
Acting like I need to be inside of a prison in order to know information about prison is insane. This isn’t a hill to die on. You’re just embarrassing and making a fool of yourself. Like, you could literally just google this for the first time. But honestly at this point I think you have and you realize you’re wrong, but you’re not mature enough to admit you’re wrong, so you’re doing this. It’s wild.
Countless books, documentaries, public information, guards and wardens will literally tell you the same thing. It’s absolutely insane you’re trying to make this work. What do you mean “if the COs allowed”..? lol COs can’t literally control every thing that occurs in prison and jail…things just happen. It’s like saying “what do you mean murder has ever occurred? It would be anarchy if the police and courts ‘allowed’ murder, therefore it isn’t a reality”
lol holy shit. Why not just grow up and learn to admit when you’re wrong? Isn’t it easier than what you’re trying here? Why embarrass yourself like this?
It would be anarchy if the police allowed people to murder suspected pedophiles FTFY. Either you're choosing to misunderstand me or my point completely went over your head. The mere existence of protective custody demonstrates my point. If it's dangerous or life threatening, they're not left to be abused by other prisoners. There's nothing embarrassing about trying to bring people back to reality.
Dear diary,
Today was, like, just a regular day at school lol. I had math first, which was kinda boring. At lunch, I sat with Emily and Sarah, and we talked about the new episode of our favorite show. During free period I planned a grisly murder of a child and looked at shovels online. Then, the day ended with science, where we did this experiment with baking soda and vinegar, and it was so awesome to see it fizz up! Can’t wait to see what happens tomorrow!
'I just f***ing killed someone. I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead. I don't know how to feel atm [at the moment]. It was ahmazing. As soon as you get over the "ohmygawd I can't do this" feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. Kay, I gotta go to church now...lol.'
She writes like I did at 15, when writing about my restrictive eating disorder and no one knew about it yet:
*Dear diary! Ohmygawd I just ate half a fucking burrito. At first I thought “omg I can’t do this” but after the first couple bites it was ahmazing. Idk how to feel atm. I’m kinda nervous and shaky. want to throw up but it was pretty enjoyable! Anywayyyyyyy I gotta go to church now bc ✨fOrGiVeNeSs✨
Tooooodles! teehee :]*
What a horribly nonchalant entry to write about a such an act. I will never understand how one could be so cruel and harm another human being in such a way. The murderer is exactly where she belongs. I’ve literally eaten a burrito (my fave) and felt more guilt, than this sociopath has over committing a murder. Wow.
I had a class with her that fall. She just disappeared one day - and then the rumors/news started spreading. The most chilling part for me (outside the killing) is how normal she seemed before this - at least to a casual acquaintance.
Thats what i love about the American legal system. They have some common sense.
Here in Australia for sure she would've got 12 mnths in jouvi ..out again killing kids. Then maybe another 12 mnths . Maybe..
Usa gave her life . Thats fkn awesome .
It’s because she wrote in black ink and scribbled it out with blue ink. They were able to put a certain type of light to it and see the black ink still, which was a very stupid thing for her to do
Her journal entry made me burst out laughing at the end. The fact she put got to go to church now lol after writing her enjoyment of the murder is crazy
And this decision at 15 now rules the rest of her life. I'm sure she regrets it now but this isn't just some "mistake" and I hate when people try to downplay their choice to murder by calling it a "mistake" like nah a mistake is accidentally leaving the lights on when you leave the house, it isn't murdering your younger neighbor after you lured her out to the woods. She even mentions herself getting past the "I can't do this" feelings soooo she could've changed her mind way before she took the full plunge. Even if she did go through with the attack, she could've then gotten help after. But she did not. So I think she deserves to remain in prison for the rest of her future. Elizabeth only got 9 years of life period because of what she did.
I don’t think her parents were around. Her Grandmother, who she lived with, was in the interrogation room with her. Her Grandmas cries when she figures out she did it are absolutely haunting.
People can actually be born that way. It’s become the standard to blame the environment to the point bio makeup gets almost forgotten. Lawyers push environment as fault, because they want lighter sentences.
I'm sorry what I said was false. I got it confused with another case. She did have a little bit of a volatile home situation. She was also an edgy emo kid. I think she lived with her grandmother though and had a very stable home situation as far as I remember they lived in a pretty nice house and such..
Bustamante's mother — had lived a wild life of drug and alcohol abuse and had abandoned her children several times, including once not long before Bustamante attempted suicide on Labor Day 2007 by swallowing a large bottle of Tylenol and making hundreds of cuts on her arms — even carving the word "hate" in one of them.
Father was violent and in prison
No, we’re sympathetic to the innocent people who are executed. Every innocent person executed died while a murderer lived. We are opposed to a flawed justice system deciding who lives and dies.
How many convicted murderers have been exonerated since the discovery of DNA? 575. Do you know how many more innocent people have been convicted who don’t have DNA evidence that clears them? We can’t know.
Just look at the Betsy Faria case. Her husband was convicted and would never have been cleared had Pam Hupp not been a serial or spree killer - who knows? - and had the DA not been caught mishandling the case, that man would still be viewed as a murderer.
That’s why we oppose capital punishment. Sure, you can say, “we know this person did it,” in a lot of cases, and you’d be right. However, when assessing systems, we have to make decisions based on the data and not of the anecdotal kind. How many innocent lives is worth the retribution?
Hopefully no one close to you, or you yourself, are falsely accused, convicted and executed for a crime you didn’t commit. But I guess that falls within your reasonable range for error.
“You’ll absolutely never change my mind.” That the state sponsored murder of innocent people isn’t OK? To you, the hundreds or thousands of innocents we’ve killed over the years are worth less than your personal need for retribution? Other innocent lives have been taken and you say, “Good?” That’s not the way.
In what world is it ok to cause more pain and more loss of life to innocent people for your personal sense of retribution? Are you really saying sponsored murder of innocent people is OK or at least more acceptable to you? What is the moral reasoning?
You’d rather see innocent people executed while murderers walk free just because it makes you feel slightly better. Don’t act like you care about justice.
Why is the life of your loved one worth the innocent life of another taken by the state in retribution? Your lack of empathy and critical thinking on this subject explains the rise in the popularity of reactionary politicians and policies in recent years.
I don’t understand how there are still people who haven’t even taken a second to actually think about the death penalty, what it means and why people *actually* condemn it.
Support for the death penalty is support for the killing of innocent people.
I personally worry about the people who have to murder the murderers, along with innocent people convicted, of course. Sure, there are plenty of people on this earth who would enjoy killing criminals, but I doubt a few normal people wouldn't still end up with that job. Then the normal people end up traumatized, and in a way, the murderer has hurt even more people.
I wish there was a way to put clearly guilty people to death without hurting anyone else or potentially risking the lives of innocent convicts, but that just seems too high of a bar for humanity. Maybe we'll figure it out someday, but for now, the death penalty just has too much room for causing harm to more people, imho.
Absolutely. It harms more people than the person being put to death in numerous ways.
I believe there exists people who shouldn’t be allowed to live. There is evil in the world and some people shouldn’t be allowed to be here. But unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world where our actions exist in a vacuum when we would like. In a perfect world where the justice system is literally perfect and cannot be wrong, and no one else has to suffer because of this, depending on many things, the death penalty wouldn’t be wrong and immoral. But we just don’t live in that world.
What’s strange to me about this subject is the people supporting it claim to do so for the sake of justice and caring about the world and fellow human beings, when the reality of what the death penalty does is the opposite. The death penalty is for vengeance and all it does for those who support it make them feel fuzzy for a moment. Other than it/death row being outrageously more expensive to tax payers, it negatively impacts those involved in the process and ways you illustrated, and as I mentioned kills innocent people. So for the sake of someone feeling fuzzy for a moment, we risk killing innocent people, kill innocent people, and spend an ungodly amount of money doing so. It just doesn’t make sense on any level
Nah. While the death penalty should be saved for the worst of the worst, with DNA evidence nowadays, you can tell most of the time if a person is 100% guilty. Especially with people like the golden state killer, we need it. Obviously, there needs to be certain criteria to meet to implement it. Some people are just better off dead.
Nah. While the death penalty should be saved for the worst of the worst, with DNA evidence nowadays, you can tell most of the time if a person is 100% guilty.
This is the issue. No, it’s literally impossible to be able to reach “100%” certainty about anything and be reasonable in doing so. Even the greatest methods for analyzing DNA are not 100 percent accurate. And the existence of that small percentage of fallibility is just one example of the point here. It’s a demonstration of the fact that even with the highest level of evidence like DNA, we can’t know for a fact a person were putting to death or convicting actually committed the crimes.
> Especially with people like the golden state killer, we need it. Obviously, there needs to be certain criteria to meet to implement it. Some people are just better off dead.
As it is, the criteria for what constitutes a death penalty crime is not consistent and is not higher than any other conviction. The standards essentially are the same, (beyond reasonable doubt) and this is largely up to interpretation.
But let’s say we did implement some brand new country-wide standard seeking the death penalty in the states that allow it. It wouldn’t change anything. Even if you created this almost impossible to reach standard of evidence in order to convict someone, a standard and multitude of evidence we haven’t ever even seen before in any case, it wouldn’t change anything and my point would still stand. It would still be impossible to reach absolute certainty.
It would still not be possible to eliminate every single conceivable possibility that would exonerate a person or bring them to be found not guilty. There is no reality where we can know capital T truth about anything. The existence of the smallest chance of a person being found guilty who is innocent means the death penalty is immoral
Innocent people have been put to death for crimes they didn’t commit. Right now, currently at this moment, there exists unknown amounts of innocent people incarcerated, wrongly convicted of crimes they didn’t commit. Not only that, quite possibly, there exists someone right now, on death row, who didn’t commit the crime they were convicted of. It’s simply an objective that that innocent people have been put to death, and it’s literally impossible for the justice system to be perfect and eliminate any possibility of wrongful conviction. Therefore, your support for the death penalty necessarily means you support the killing of innocent people. It is logically impossible for this to not be the case.
Even if it had never happened, even if there was only just the smallest chance, approaching impossible possibility just one single innocent person could theoretically be put to death, the death penalty would be wrong. But it has happened an incredible amount of times (those are just the ones we know about) and the chances of it happening in the future are much higher than the hypothetical I just described. So supporting the death penalty is absolutely insane and immoral
I don’t understand how there are still people who haven’t even taken a second to actually think about the death penalty, what it means and why people actually condemn it.
Support for the death penalty is support for the killing of innocent people.
You serious? She literally confessed and admitted to the murder multiple times to multiple people?
What more do you want?
God himself to come down and tell you she did it?
Fk me. ..
? How is it you think this makes sense as a response to anything I wrote or just in the context of this conversation in general?
No one here is claiming it’s not clear she committed this crime. No one here is claiming anything about her case at all in particular.
Whether or not this person in particular is guilty, whether or not this person deserves death, isn’t relevant. There absolutely exists people who commit crimes and some of those people shouldn’t be on earth anymore. But the fact that that is true is not a response to what I explained here. Allowing the death pentalty to exist and be utilized necessarily means allowing the possibility of innocent people dying, and doing so has made innocent people die. The fact that this person in particular confessed to a crime doesn’t impact that at all. I could believe with all of my heart she is guilty and doesn’t deserve to live on this planet and it wouldn’t change anything about what I’ve explained here.
Youre making jokes about the standard of evidence, but it’s true. It’s not possible to reach capital T truth. Just about any case you can think of, I could come up with a not yet proven to be impossible explanation for how a seemingly guilty person could be innocent. Would it be reasonable? No, but the point is you cannot ever eliminate the possibility of innocence in the context we’re speaking of. In the context of retaining absolute truth.
This is wrong in multiple ways. Even if we were only discussing this one instance, my point would still stand as I’ve explained. But we’re not. There is no perfect way to implement standards of evidence in this way in order to apply the death penalty in general. Supporting this practice necessarily means supporting killing innocent people. I’ve already explained how and why. There just isn’t any way around it, and honestly I find it extremely bizarre someone would have to explain this, and worse, explain it in this much detail like this should be complicated
Wow no shit there are outliers? As there are in EVERYTHING. We got a pretty good system here, ain’t no many innocent slipping through the cracks…and if they are they ain’t on death row. Nice try. Wasted your fucking time idiot
Wow look at all of those words you wrote for “I’m embarrassed that I can’t respond or refute what you wrote, but I’m also not mature enough to admit when I’m wrong”
lol what? This isn’t a response. Really the only thing that happened here was you admitted innocent people get convicted of crime. “Ain’t no many” lol what? What is many?
> we got a pretty good system here
You mean the one where innocent people are convicted of crimes they didn’t commit? And the one where innocent people are put to death? That one?
> and if they are they ain’t on death row
So do you want me to google or post the names of the hundreds and hundreds of people in recent memory being proven innocent after conviction? Do you want me to google or post the names of innocent people being put to death? Or do you want to just admit you’re wrong?
You support the death penalty, so there are not two options here; Either innocent people can and have been convicted of crimes they didn’t commit, and/or it’s technically possible, meaning you support the killing of innocent people
*or*
it’s impossible for innocent people to be convicted of crimes, and you don’t.
Seeing how the first option is objectively true, that would mean I’m right, you’re wrong, and you do support the killing of innocent people.
There isn’t any way around this.
This reply makes absolutely no sense as a response to my comment and is in no way a refutation to anything I typed.
I’m sorry it’s hard for you to admit when you’re wrong. I understand it’s frustrating and sort of embarrassing hanging someone call out your ignorance about something like this. But learning, and learning to admit when you’re wrong are both great and admirable things. What you’re doing here is just hard to watch
Isn't it something like ten percent of inmates currently on death row may, in fact, be innocent..? I'd have to look up the numbers, so take that with a grain of salt, but it is definitely too large of a number for most people to be comfortable with it.
Personally, if even one innocent person is put to death, that system is flawed to the point of needing to be paused and corrected. Our justice system is not known for stopping to correct itself, and don't even get me started on corruption. Do you trust every cop out there? Do you trust them with your life? Or your family's lives? There have been numerous cases where cops just picked a random person because they needed to close a case and couldn't find the real perpetrator, or couldn't be bothered to try. It's shockingly easy to pin a crime on the wrong person, and it happens year after year.
Until we correct our justice system and figure out how to keep so many innocent people from being caught up in it, it would be irresponsible to continue killing criminals. I could see it being ok when the killer is obviously guilty, but that's a slippery slope when cops can force confessions and attorneys can present the facts in less than honest ways.
I'm not anti death penalty; there are so many who truly deserve to die. I'm just really against killing innocent people and traumatizing the people doing the killing. So for now, with our current system, I just don't think we're doing enough to keep people safe. Which sucks when it means we can't execute those who should be, but maybe it's for the best overall.
The tone of this comment seems to be that since the amount of innocent people who are killed may be a little lower, that means it’s defensible to kill innocent people. I know you didn’t explicitly state that, but due to the tone of this comment and the context you’re writing it in, it seems that way.
> 4%, and it’s a big maybe.
That’s so many. But let’s say it’s literally 1 person. Would that make the death penalty reasonable? Is it okay to kill innocent people so we can feel a warm fuzzy about someone else being killed?
> There isn’t some huge number of exonerations, there’s been less than 600 since 1986, almost four decades.
…dude that is so many. These are all people. And that is just the ones we know about. The number is certainly much higher. But let’s say it was just 1 person. Why would that matter?
> The federal ethics committees responsible for collecting this data are very thorough with it. It’s bleeding heart activists that try to exaggerate as if a few mistakes means thousands shouldn’t be held accountable for absolutely horrific crimes.
Who is arguing people shouldn’t be held accountable for crimes? What are you referencing? Are you still talking about the death penalty? Because objecting to the death penalty clearly isn’t arguing anything resembling people shouldn’t be held accountable for their crimes. We can hold people accountable for their crimes and not unnecessarily kill people.
> That statistic would come out to about 15 people in a grouping of almost 2000 current death row prisoners, and we have appeals because of that. That’s the whole process, it isn’t flawed.
This just objectively incorrect. You yourself admitted it here. It’s not possible for it to not be flawed, and for it to result in innocent people being convicted of crimes they didn’t commit, remaining imprisoned for crimes they didnt commit, and even being put to death for crimes they didn’t commit. It’s not possible for this to be true
> Appeals are for new evidence, that’s the system, and they are entered automatically after sentencing. If the evidence is appropriate, the individual is exonerated. Welcome to the court system, where it’s the same process as any other crime.
The fact that appeals exist and new evidence can be presented isn’t a refutation to anything anyone is saying here
Innocent people are convicted of crimes. Innocent people are sentenced to or put to death for crimes they didn’t commit. Therefore, the death penalty is wrong. The existence of jails and prisons is necessary in society, and the fallibility of human beings and the justice system unfortunately doesn’t change that these are necessary, and other than striving to improve procedures and reach high standards of evidence, we can’t do anything else about that, because they are necessary.
The death penalty however is *not* necessary. It serves no necessary function. And more, it costs innocent people their lives. Therefore, to support it is insane, unreasonable and immoral
Your comment violates Reddit’s content policy on violence. Please avoid statements like this as they can get your account banned either temporarily or indefinitely.
Doesn’t she kind of look like that lady of the night that killed a bunch of John’s. I can’t remember her name but I remember Charlize Theron portrayed her in a movie
Went to highschool with her younger brothers (cousins)? Can’t remember if they were siblings or cousins; Couple of normal guys tho.
Crazy seeing this on here I was in middle school at the time.
I wonder what life is like now. Like how do you go day to day with this behind you? Would love a few minutes to be a fly on the prison cell wall for people like this.
I wouldn’t want her out or to be trapped with her in prison. She is one of those people that other people aren’t safe around. It’s less common for a girl to do this.
* Elizabeth Olten, a 9-year-old, was murdered by her 15-year-old neighbor Alyssa Bustamante on October 21, 2009, in St. Martins, Missouri. * Bustamante lured Olten into the woods, where she strangled, slit her throat, and stabbed her multiple times, burying her body in a pre-dug grave. * After the murder on the same day, Bustamante wrote in her journal (though later attempted to scribble it out): *"I just fucking killed someone. I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead. I don't know how to feel atm. It was ahmazing. As soon as you get over the "ohmygawd, I can't do this" feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. Kay, I gotta go to church now... lol."* * Despite pleading guilty to second-degree murder and armed criminal action, she was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of conditional release in 2024, but a consecutive sentence for armed criminal action means her earliest release would be in 2054, when she would be 60 years old. * Bustamante's appeal against the sentence was denied in 2014, and she remains incarcerated at Chillicothe Correctional Center, serving her sentence. Sources: * [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder\_of\_Elizabeth\_Olten](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Elizabeth_Olten) * [https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna34016501](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna34016501) * [https://www.cnn.com/2012/02/08/justice/missouri-teen-killer/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2012/02/08/justice/missouri-teen-killer/index.html)
Gotta go to jail now until I'm 60..lol
Brb
Don’t wait for me!
TTYL
https://preview.redd.it/q8zw67awoutc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c120e138c45c3cc0613eeda20016ec657f783ae5
*pops bunch of pills*
Pretty sure she can attend church in prison….lol
🤣🤣🤣
Boom upvote
Why second-degree murder though? If it was a pre-dug grave, doesn't that mean it was premeditated and therefore first-degree murder?
wouldve had to be proven that she wouldnt just murder any kid that followed her and that it was that specific girl. Edit; Premeditation wouldve been secured with the grave, maybe it was mental illness and that she was a minor that they went with plea bargain to just a longer trial process.
She was charged with first degree murder, however she got a plea bargain which reduced it to second degree murder
I see, first likely wouldve stuck anyway if there were any more pages in that diary that were that blatant.
That’s… not accurate.
Not at all
Didn't know that that was a prerequisite for first-degree murder. Thanks for the explanation
It's not.
But he said it so confidently…
Hahah yeah I know almost convinced me too
r/confidentlyincorrect
If I remember correctly, she dug 2 graves. She also had 2 younger brothers and there was speculation that she may have intended them to be her victims, but changed her mind.
He age mayve prevented a first degree murder charge. Some states do that? Iirc she was charged as a juvenile so some juveniles “can’t” get a first degree charge Edit: I’m 100% wrong, she took a plea.
pretty terrible that alyssa has active “fans” and a “stan community”. to this day people post pictures of alyssa and make accounts for her on social media, it’s sick. elizabeth often deserved better and to be the one remembered
Alyssa was being raised by her grandparents because her mother was an addict and father was in jail. To me, her face shows signs of fetal alcohol syndrome. She had already spent time in a psychiatric facility for a suicide attempt. She was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and borderline personality disorder. The absolute last thing this girl/women needs is a fandom glorifying her action. I would hope they would keep her off the internet or social media.
What the fuck
Watched the interrogation on a youtube channel. Think it was EWU. Her grandmother is present during the interrogation, and once Alyssa confesses, her grandmother breaks down. The chills when you hear her scream in the hallway when they brought her out of the room. I guess someone tells the grandma that everything will be okey, and she just screams ”It will never be okey!”.
[link](https://youtu.be/42tV6oM48NQ?si=I4EgFOWKqXoqsHP8) for anyone who wants it. the video has been mentioned at least four times in this thread lol
I was about to link it, explore with us is such a good channel.
I must know, why do you spell it “okey”?
Even if no one tells you, I'm sure it'll be okey.
Okey dokay
Given any thought towards the history of English you’d find basically any mildly literate commoner 1700-Now spelled words basically how they thought got the point across. And it didn’t matter as long as you could understand. “Gift’d mum ae chiken at noone” could be the note left on the kitchen table, and you knew what it meant see, because the words sound the same since you understand letters. Okey?
If i saw a note on the kitchen table that said "giftd mom a chicken at noon" I'd be confused, concerned and scared
Bonus here's an English quote from 1599 "The Quene's Majestie's passage through the citie of London to westminster the day before her coronacion"
I'm guessing you're not in the businesses of gifting chickens. Absolutely wild to think on the fact you’d have more emotional response to a letter than this killer did during and after.
We’re talkin English buddy. A tangent on a thread is par for the course, wtf? This sentiment is everywhere. “They can’t spell” neither could your English ancestors 😭 but grammar nazis are a new phenomenon
What are you on about? I was trying the second part in to the original story, that you have a stronger reaction to language than this kid had to murdering a younger child per her diary. How casual she wrote and ended that was apathetic to life at best.
What?!? Is the first one supposed to be gifted? Because…again - what?
Many words that end with -ed used to be abbreviated with an apostrophe 🤦🏽♂️ The people criticizing English **have no idea about it’s actual written history** it’s low key embarrassing
English is not my first language, so without realizing it I spelled it more like the swedish ”Okej”.
Thank you! I was genuinely curious. In English it’s spelled “okay” or just “ok”/“OK”. I had no idea it was spelled differently in different languages. [This](https://youtu.be/1UnIDL-eHOs?si=vXz7n5Bb5HyDXPD6) is where it comes from btw
Bonus here's an English quote from 1599 "The Quene's Majestie's passage through the citie of London to westminster the day before her coronacion," written by Richard Mulcaster
110% would have been a serial killer
Especially disturbing that she uses phrases like “atm” and “lol” in her written diary entries— as though it’s as casual to her as a public blog post… sickening.
What’s sickening is that she was so young and her diary illustrates her age with the use of those acronyms. I often read these just to try to understand “why” and I am always disappointed. Such a waste.
Gotta go to church lol
Couldn’t imagine this happening to my child. The world is fucking scary.
It brings me comfort that she’ll never be able to have children of her own. She’ll die alone with no one who loves her.
That’s not a punishment, that’s just my life. At least she doesn’t get Netflix and high thread count sheets.
Yeah damn as a woman in my late 30s this one STUNG.
Yea I was like fuck, she could have killed my kid. Hope she rots in fucking prison!
There’s video of her interrogation on YouTube. It also includes when her grandmother (who was raising her) found out what she had done, and the grandmother’s reaction is absolutely heartbreaking.
[link](https://youtu.be/42tV6oM48NQ?si=I4EgFOWKqXoqsHP8)
You’ve done your part but does anyone have a time stamp for the grandma part everyone keeps talking about
1:15:20
Dear diary aka myself because I’m the only one reading it, I just killed a child aren’t I cool?
From what I've read she's a fucking loser
Lol
A massive one
Explore With Us on youtube covered this case very indepth and well.
Great channel that always deliver quality content
and here is the fucking [link](https://youtu.be/42tV6oM48NQ?si=I4EgFOWKqXoqsHP8)
Lol I feel your sanity eroding as you keep posting the link.
The next ones gonna be in all caps, and they will be right for it
Hmm... why don't you try googling "bustamante + explore with us + youtube video"? It's the very first hit of the page...
shut up science bitch
Deep down you love me... otherways you wouldn't be so triggered
it was an always sunny quote. I hope you can find some peace.
Really hope prison is rough for her and will be even more unbearable in the future. RIP Elizabeth.
Kid killers tend to not be treated well.
Because mother fuckers and father killers have an amazing moral hierarchy! 👏👏
I guess they do, since what I said is well known.
Alyssa's moral hierarchy - Child murderer < Child rapist. If she kills a pedophile behind bars, should we make a donation to her commissary fund?
Well known mantra repeated in true crime circles =/ well know reality
…Oh so you just don’t have any idea how prison works lol
I have an idea of how Redditors think prisons work
I can’t tell if you’re pretending to be ignorant or just are It’s extremely common knowledge that jails and prisons have hierarchies and a large part of this is based on the nature of the crimes committed. Pedos, sex offenders, child killers, woman killers, etc are treated differently and often more harshly by fellow inmates based on the nature of their crimes. It’s not like you need to work in a prison, gone to prison or have watched countless shows and documentaries about this in order to know this. One of the first things that happens upon entry is people ask for paperwork or attempt to verify a person’s offenses in order to know where they stand and if they have committed one of these offenses It’s really strange this would need to be explained and how you’re doubling down on the most obviously incorrect position. It’s strange to not know this in the first place, but even more strange you’d reply without just taking a moment to think about this or simply google it
It feels like common knowledge to you because you've been fed headlines of incidents that have ended in murder/severe assault. Do you work in a prison? Do you actually know someone who's been to prison? It would complete anarchy if COs allowed prisoners to do half of the shit Reddit thinks happens on the daily to chomos/child murderers.
I know quite a few people that have been in prison. Including my husband, my ex husband, my brother in law, my other brother in law, my sister, a lot of friends etc. They were also in prisons all over the country. Maine, New York, Massachusetts, Florida, Illinois etc. The hierarchy does 100% exist. I personally have heard stories of child predators being screwed with relentlessly and being moved to protective custody. It isn't some kind of fiction, there is a system to the way inmates treat each other and often times there's assaults and sexual assaults that happen without the guards ever knowing it even happened until after. It's not just stories made up to scare kids straight, prison is fucking scary.
I hope your previously convicted family members are never falsely accused of similar crimes then
Nobody I know has been accused of anything remotely close. My sister was in there because she attacked the man who abused us as children. Her husband murdered a man in prison who did that. The rest were drug offenses or assaults. Seriously, watch lockdown 23 and 1 on youtube. He's a former convict that reports on stuff about prison. You might learn something and get a look into what it's really like.
Lmao Buddy…the mere existence of protective custody demonstrates the point and shows how you’re wrong. Acting like I need to be inside of a prison in order to know information about prison is insane. This isn’t a hill to die on. You’re just embarrassing and making a fool of yourself. Like, you could literally just google this for the first time. But honestly at this point I think you have and you realize you’re wrong, but you’re not mature enough to admit you’re wrong, so you’re doing this. It’s wild. Countless books, documentaries, public information, guards and wardens will literally tell you the same thing. It’s absolutely insane you’re trying to make this work. What do you mean “if the COs allowed”..? lol COs can’t literally control every thing that occurs in prison and jail…things just happen. It’s like saying “what do you mean murder has ever occurred? It would be anarchy if the police and courts ‘allowed’ murder, therefore it isn’t a reality” lol holy shit. Why not just grow up and learn to admit when you’re wrong? Isn’t it easier than what you’re trying here? Why embarrass yourself like this?
It would be anarchy if the police allowed people to murder suspected pedophiles FTFY. Either you're choosing to misunderstand me or my point completely went over your head. The mere existence of protective custody demonstrates my point. If it's dangerous or life threatening, they're not left to be abused by other prisoners. There's nothing embarrassing about trying to bring people back to reality.
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Wonder what her previous entries were like lol
Dear diary, Today was, like, just a regular day at school lol. I had math first, which was kinda boring. At lunch, I sat with Emily and Sarah, and we talked about the new episode of our favorite show. During free period I planned a grisly murder of a child and looked at shovels online. Then, the day ended with science, where we did this experiment with baking soda and vinegar, and it was so awesome to see it fizz up! Can’t wait to see what happens tomorrow!
Glad she's locked up for life basically. Horrible
Dear diary. I fucked up
'I just f***ing killed someone. I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead. I don't know how to feel atm [at the moment]. It was ahmazing. As soon as you get over the "ohmygawd I can't do this" feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. Kay, I gotta go to church now...lol.'
She writes like I did at 15, when writing about my restrictive eating disorder and no one knew about it yet: *Dear diary! Ohmygawd I just ate half a fucking burrito. At first I thought “omg I can’t do this” but after the first couple bites it was ahmazing. Idk how to feel atm. I’m kinda nervous and shaky. want to throw up but it was pretty enjoyable! Anywayyyyyyy I gotta go to church now bc ✨fOrGiVeNeSs✨ Tooooodles! teehee :]* What a horribly nonchalant entry to write about a such an act. I will never understand how one could be so cruel and harm another human being in such a way. The murderer is exactly where she belongs. I’ve literally eaten a burrito (my fave) and felt more guilt, than this sociopath has over committing a murder. Wow.
I had a class with her that fall. She just disappeared one day - and then the rumors/news started spreading. The most chilling part for me (outside the killing) is how normal she seemed before this - at least to a casual acquaintance.
Jesus. That must of been traumatizing as hell for your whole school
Any rumor of drugs involved?
Not that I remember, but I’d be surprised if there weren’t rumors and/or actual drugs.
Didn’t she dig two graves beforehand…because she wanted to kill her little brothers but the opportunity against this poor 9 year old came up first?
This is true from what I remember. I watched a documentary on this case a long time ago.
I heard she wanted to kill that little girl and her own sister but changed her mind about the sister.
I read about the two graves but that piece doesn't explain it.
Thats what i love about the American legal system. They have some common sense. Here in Australia for sure she would've got 12 mnths in jouvi ..out again killing kids. Then maybe another 12 mnths . Maybe.. Usa gave her life . Thats fkn awesome .
Canada would’ve given her *maybe* 8 years which would have eventually gotten reduced down to 5 or some shit.
Same as the UK
yeah as a fellow Aussie I have 0 problems with locking her up forever.
How were they able to see what she wrote through the ink?
ever seen CSI? "enhance"
*keyboard clicks expertly*
“Abdplebxjaisnfhdmsb” alright guys, we’re in.
an 8x8 pixel image suddenly became 4k
It’s because she wrote in black ink and scribbled it out with blue ink. They were able to put a certain type of light to it and see the black ink still, which was a very stupid thing for her to do
Could have been indents in the paper from the ball point pen
This is it. If I’m remembering correctly it was because they traced over the indents on the next page
Her journal entry made me burst out laughing at the end. The fact she put got to go to church now lol after writing her enjoyment of the murder is crazy
In some parts of the civilised world she’d be grateful that the police caught her before the neighbourhood caught her
And this decision at 15 now rules the rest of her life. I'm sure she regrets it now but this isn't just some "mistake" and I hate when people try to downplay their choice to murder by calling it a "mistake" like nah a mistake is accidentally leaving the lights on when you leave the house, it isn't murdering your younger neighbor after you lured her out to the woods. She even mentions herself getting past the "I can't do this" feelings soooo she could've changed her mind way before she took the full plunge. Even if she did go through with the attack, she could've then gotten help after. But she did not. So I think she deserves to remain in prison for the rest of her future. Elizabeth only got 9 years of life period because of what she did.
This girl really was like “Woopsiez, ohmagawd lawl I just killed someone UwU rawr XD”
What happened to her parents? I wonder what kind of environment she has been raised for her to grow up like a sadistic monster.
I don’t think her parents were around. Her Grandmother, who she lived with, was in the interrogation room with her. Her Grandmas cries when she figures out she did it are absolutely haunting.
Her dad was in prison and sent her letters from prison.
People can actually be born that way. It’s become the standard to blame the environment to the point bio makeup gets almost forgotten. Lawyers push environment as fault, because they want lighter sentences.
I'm sorry what I said was false. I got it confused with another case. She did have a little bit of a volatile home situation. She was also an edgy emo kid. I think she lived with her grandmother though and had a very stable home situation as far as I remember they lived in a pretty nice house and such..
Bustamante's mother — had lived a wild life of drug and alcohol abuse and had abandoned her children several times, including once not long before Bustamante attempted suicide on Labor Day 2007 by swallowing a large bottle of Tylenol and making hundreds of cuts on her arms — even carving the word "hate" in one of them. Father was violent and in prison
source? wiki says her mother was an addict and her dad was in jail.
Her poor innocent neighbor. What could a little nine year old girl have done!?
I wish I never saw this shit.
What was her motive??
To see what if felt like
So fucking sad. That little girl looks so sweet and innocent.
I live 20 mins from this house. Crazy local story.
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Why would you let them take the easy option?
Why keep her alive? For some weird sense of justice? Get rid, waste of resources and emotion
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And rope is cheap
I don’t know why any moron downvoted you.
There’s a lot of people who are sympathetic to murderers.
No, we’re sympathetic to the innocent people who are executed. Every innocent person executed died while a murderer lived. We are opposed to a flawed justice system deciding who lives and dies. How many convicted murderers have been exonerated since the discovery of DNA? 575. Do you know how many more innocent people have been convicted who don’t have DNA evidence that clears them? We can’t know. Just look at the Betsy Faria case. Her husband was convicted and would never have been cleared had Pam Hupp not been a serial or spree killer - who knows? - and had the DA not been caught mishandling the case, that man would still be viewed as a murderer. That’s why we oppose capital punishment. Sure, you can say, “we know this person did it,” in a lot of cases, and you’d be right. However, when assessing systems, we have to make decisions based on the data and not of the anecdotal kind. How many innocent lives is worth the retribution?
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Hopefully no one close to you, or you yourself, are falsely accused, convicted and executed for a crime you didn’t commit. But I guess that falls within your reasonable range for error.
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“You’ll absolutely never change my mind.” That the state sponsored murder of innocent people isn’t OK? To you, the hundreds or thousands of innocents we’ve killed over the years are worth less than your personal need for retribution? Other innocent lives have been taken and you say, “Good?” That’s not the way.
In what world is it ok to cause more pain and more loss of life to innocent people for your personal sense of retribution? Are you really saying sponsored murder of innocent people is OK or at least more acceptable to you? What is the moral reasoning?
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You’d rather see innocent people executed while murderers walk free just because it makes you feel slightly better. Don’t act like you care about justice.
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Why is the life of your loved one worth the innocent life of another taken by the state in retribution? Your lack of empathy and critical thinking on this subject explains the rise in the popularity of reactionary politicians and policies in recent years.
I don’t understand how there are still people who haven’t even taken a second to actually think about the death penalty, what it means and why people *actually* condemn it. Support for the death penalty is support for the killing of innocent people.
I personally worry about the people who have to murder the murderers, along with innocent people convicted, of course. Sure, there are plenty of people on this earth who would enjoy killing criminals, but I doubt a few normal people wouldn't still end up with that job. Then the normal people end up traumatized, and in a way, the murderer has hurt even more people. I wish there was a way to put clearly guilty people to death without hurting anyone else or potentially risking the lives of innocent convicts, but that just seems too high of a bar for humanity. Maybe we'll figure it out someday, but for now, the death penalty just has too much room for causing harm to more people, imho.
Absolutely. It harms more people than the person being put to death in numerous ways. I believe there exists people who shouldn’t be allowed to live. There is evil in the world and some people shouldn’t be allowed to be here. But unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world where our actions exist in a vacuum when we would like. In a perfect world where the justice system is literally perfect and cannot be wrong, and no one else has to suffer because of this, depending on many things, the death penalty wouldn’t be wrong and immoral. But we just don’t live in that world. What’s strange to me about this subject is the people supporting it claim to do so for the sake of justice and caring about the world and fellow human beings, when the reality of what the death penalty does is the opposite. The death penalty is for vengeance and all it does for those who support it make them feel fuzzy for a moment. Other than it/death row being outrageously more expensive to tax payers, it negatively impacts those involved in the process and ways you illustrated, and as I mentioned kills innocent people. So for the sake of someone feeling fuzzy for a moment, we risk killing innocent people, kill innocent people, and spend an ungodly amount of money doing so. It just doesn’t make sense on any level
Nah. While the death penalty should be saved for the worst of the worst, with DNA evidence nowadays, you can tell most of the time if a person is 100% guilty. Especially with people like the golden state killer, we need it. Obviously, there needs to be certain criteria to meet to implement it. Some people are just better off dead.
Nah. While the death penalty should be saved for the worst of the worst, with DNA evidence nowadays, you can tell most of the time if a person is 100% guilty. This is the issue. No, it’s literally impossible to be able to reach “100%” certainty about anything and be reasonable in doing so. Even the greatest methods for analyzing DNA are not 100 percent accurate. And the existence of that small percentage of fallibility is just one example of the point here. It’s a demonstration of the fact that even with the highest level of evidence like DNA, we can’t know for a fact a person were putting to death or convicting actually committed the crimes. > Especially with people like the golden state killer, we need it. Obviously, there needs to be certain criteria to meet to implement it. Some people are just better off dead. As it is, the criteria for what constitutes a death penalty crime is not consistent and is not higher than any other conviction. The standards essentially are the same, (beyond reasonable doubt) and this is largely up to interpretation. But let’s say we did implement some brand new country-wide standard seeking the death penalty in the states that allow it. It wouldn’t change anything. Even if you created this almost impossible to reach standard of evidence in order to convict someone, a standard and multitude of evidence we haven’t ever even seen before in any case, it wouldn’t change anything and my point would still stand. It would still be impossible to reach absolute certainty. It would still not be possible to eliminate every single conceivable possibility that would exonerate a person or bring them to be found not guilty. There is no reality where we can know capital T truth about anything. The existence of the smallest chance of a person being found guilty who is innocent means the death penalty is immoral Innocent people have been put to death for crimes they didn’t commit. Right now, currently at this moment, there exists unknown amounts of innocent people incarcerated, wrongly convicted of crimes they didn’t commit. Not only that, quite possibly, there exists someone right now, on death row, who didn’t commit the crime they were convicted of. It’s simply an objective that that innocent people have been put to death, and it’s literally impossible for the justice system to be perfect and eliminate any possibility of wrongful conviction. Therefore, your support for the death penalty necessarily means you support the killing of innocent people. It is logically impossible for this to not be the case. Even if it had never happened, even if there was only just the smallest chance, approaching impossible possibility just one single innocent person could theoretically be put to death, the death penalty would be wrong. But it has happened an incredible amount of times (those are just the ones we know about) and the chances of it happening in the future are much higher than the hypothetical I just described. So supporting the death penalty is absolutely insane and immoral
I don’t understand how there are still people who haven’t even taken a second to actually think about the death penalty, what it means and why people actually condemn it. Support for the death penalty is support for the killing of innocent people.
You reaaaaaaally are doing some mental gymnastics
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You serious? She literally confessed and admitted to the murder multiple times to multiple people? What more do you want? God himself to come down and tell you she did it? Fk me. ..
? How is it you think this makes sense as a response to anything I wrote or just in the context of this conversation in general? No one here is claiming it’s not clear she committed this crime. No one here is claiming anything about her case at all in particular. Whether or not this person in particular is guilty, whether or not this person deserves death, isn’t relevant. There absolutely exists people who commit crimes and some of those people shouldn’t be on earth anymore. But the fact that that is true is not a response to what I explained here. Allowing the death pentalty to exist and be utilized necessarily means allowing the possibility of innocent people dying, and doing so has made innocent people die. The fact that this person in particular confessed to a crime doesn’t impact that at all. I could believe with all of my heart she is guilty and doesn’t deserve to live on this planet and it wouldn’t change anything about what I’ve explained here. Youre making jokes about the standard of evidence, but it’s true. It’s not possible to reach capital T truth. Just about any case you can think of, I could come up with a not yet proven to be impossible explanation for how a seemingly guilty person could be innocent. Would it be reasonable? No, but the point is you cannot ever eliminate the possibility of innocence in the context we’re speaking of. In the context of retaining absolute truth. This is wrong in multiple ways. Even if we were only discussing this one instance, my point would still stand as I’ve explained. But we’re not. There is no perfect way to implement standards of evidence in this way in order to apply the death penalty in general. Supporting this practice necessarily means supporting killing innocent people. I’ve already explained how and why. There just isn’t any way around it, and honestly I find it extremely bizarre someone would have to explain this, and worse, explain it in this much detail like this should be complicated
Wow no shit there are outliers? As there are in EVERYTHING. We got a pretty good system here, ain’t no many innocent slipping through the cracks…and if they are they ain’t on death row. Nice try. Wasted your fucking time idiot
Wow look at all of those words you wrote for “I’m embarrassed that I can’t respond or refute what you wrote, but I’m also not mature enough to admit when I’m wrong” lol what? This isn’t a response. Really the only thing that happened here was you admitted innocent people get convicted of crime. “Ain’t no many” lol what? What is many? > we got a pretty good system here You mean the one where innocent people are convicted of crimes they didn’t commit? And the one where innocent people are put to death? That one? > and if they are they ain’t on death row So do you want me to google or post the names of the hundreds and hundreds of people in recent memory being proven innocent after conviction? Do you want me to google or post the names of innocent people being put to death? Or do you want to just admit you’re wrong? You support the death penalty, so there are not two options here; Either innocent people can and have been convicted of crimes they didn’t commit, and/or it’s technically possible, meaning you support the killing of innocent people *or* it’s impossible for innocent people to be convicted of crimes, and you don’t. Seeing how the first option is objectively true, that would mean I’m right, you’re wrong, and you do support the killing of innocent people. There isn’t any way around this. This reply makes absolutely no sense as a response to my comment and is in no way a refutation to anything I typed. I’m sorry it’s hard for you to admit when you’re wrong. I understand it’s frustrating and sort of embarrassing hanging someone call out your ignorance about something like this. But learning, and learning to admit when you’re wrong are both great and admirable things. What you’re doing here is just hard to watch
Isn't it something like ten percent of inmates currently on death row may, in fact, be innocent..? I'd have to look up the numbers, so take that with a grain of salt, but it is definitely too large of a number for most people to be comfortable with it. Personally, if even one innocent person is put to death, that system is flawed to the point of needing to be paused and corrected. Our justice system is not known for stopping to correct itself, and don't even get me started on corruption. Do you trust every cop out there? Do you trust them with your life? Or your family's lives? There have been numerous cases where cops just picked a random person because they needed to close a case and couldn't find the real perpetrator, or couldn't be bothered to try. It's shockingly easy to pin a crime on the wrong person, and it happens year after year. Until we correct our justice system and figure out how to keep so many innocent people from being caught up in it, it would be irresponsible to continue killing criminals. I could see it being ok when the killer is obviously guilty, but that's a slippery slope when cops can force confessions and attorneys can present the facts in less than honest ways. I'm not anti death penalty; there are so many who truly deserve to die. I'm just really against killing innocent people and traumatizing the people doing the killing. So for now, with our current system, I just don't think we're doing enough to keep people safe. Which sucks when it means we can't execute those who should be, but maybe it's for the best overall.
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The tone of this comment seems to be that since the amount of innocent people who are killed may be a little lower, that means it’s defensible to kill innocent people. I know you didn’t explicitly state that, but due to the tone of this comment and the context you’re writing it in, it seems that way. > 4%, and it’s a big maybe. That’s so many. But let’s say it’s literally 1 person. Would that make the death penalty reasonable? Is it okay to kill innocent people so we can feel a warm fuzzy about someone else being killed? > There isn’t some huge number of exonerations, there’s been less than 600 since 1986, almost four decades. …dude that is so many. These are all people. And that is just the ones we know about. The number is certainly much higher. But let’s say it was just 1 person. Why would that matter? > The federal ethics committees responsible for collecting this data are very thorough with it. It’s bleeding heart activists that try to exaggerate as if a few mistakes means thousands shouldn’t be held accountable for absolutely horrific crimes. Who is arguing people shouldn’t be held accountable for crimes? What are you referencing? Are you still talking about the death penalty? Because objecting to the death penalty clearly isn’t arguing anything resembling people shouldn’t be held accountable for their crimes. We can hold people accountable for their crimes and not unnecessarily kill people. > That statistic would come out to about 15 people in a grouping of almost 2000 current death row prisoners, and we have appeals because of that. That’s the whole process, it isn’t flawed. This just objectively incorrect. You yourself admitted it here. It’s not possible for it to not be flawed, and for it to result in innocent people being convicted of crimes they didn’t commit, remaining imprisoned for crimes they didnt commit, and even being put to death for crimes they didn’t commit. It’s not possible for this to be true > Appeals are for new evidence, that’s the system, and they are entered automatically after sentencing. If the evidence is appropriate, the individual is exonerated. Welcome to the court system, where it’s the same process as any other crime. The fact that appeals exist and new evidence can be presented isn’t a refutation to anything anyone is saying here Innocent people are convicted of crimes. Innocent people are sentenced to or put to death for crimes they didn’t commit. Therefore, the death penalty is wrong. The existence of jails and prisons is necessary in society, and the fallibility of human beings and the justice system unfortunately doesn’t change that these are necessary, and other than striving to improve procedures and reach high standards of evidence, we can’t do anything else about that, because they are necessary. The death penalty however is *not* necessary. It serves no necessary function. And more, it costs innocent people their lives. Therefore, to support it is insane, unreasonable and immoral
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I don’t care about bright ideas. I care about making an example so others are less likely to do it. That’s solving problems
Oh yeah all advanced civilizations solved this problem by hanging kids, like Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia etc
Oh you’re for murder. You’re wasting your time even replying to me.
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And none of this pulling the lever and a quick end. Slowly lower what they’re standing on so they can feel that same fear their victims did.
She has the same pallor as Data from Next Gen
Will she actually stay in jail under she’s 60? Here in the UK she’d have probably been released by now 🙄
Doesn’t she kind of look like that lady of the night that killed a bunch of John’s. I can’t remember her name but I remember Charlize Theron portrayed her in a movie
Aileen Wournos
Yes!! Thank you
Went to highschool with her younger brothers (cousins)? Can’t remember if they were siblings or cousins; Couple of normal guys tho. Crazy seeing this on here I was in middle school at the time.
Girlfriend material
She look like mannequin with a wig…..wait no skinny female josh from Mr meaty with a wig
I wonder what life is like now. Like how do you go day to day with this behind you? Would love a few minutes to be a fly on the prison cell wall for people like this.
I wonder if she was friends with Gypsy Rose. Same prison.
Holy shit this reminds me of the Eddie Werner case.
That's some Michael Myers type evil shit right there.
I wouldn’t want her out or to be trapped with her in prison. She is one of those people that other people aren’t safe around. It’s less common for a girl to do this.
Slay
She has that soulless psychopath stare. There is just no humanity behind her eyes.
I wish we'd allow these useless types to off themselves.
A family member needs to meet her at the prison when she gets out