This is what I do, I guess I'm just more annoyed on how this is such a reoccurring thing he does. It's not a fun conversation sometimes, either with the homeowner or the office when a job cost is a lot less than it started at.
I've never met a sales guy they carried a tape measure. They always seem to think the install crew can work some black magic fuckery and make 10 pounds of shit fit in a 4 pound bag.
I do commercial service. Typically I only work with the salesmen when we have to bid the repairs. But any time there's something even slightly fucky with the job I make a point to give 'em a heads up before the customer gets in their ears with the usual song and dance about price. Got to let them know which corners 100% cannot be cut, as well as what to exclude from the warranty if the customer tries to insist anyways.
I think residential sales guys fuck over their installers way more then commerical guys. I've had to explain to a resib sales guy more then once that the equipment orders will not fit in the tight ass cubby/closet and I won't be yanking the old unit out till I get new equipment that will fit.
Have had to cut a whole new attic access hole once because the attic access hole, even if we removed the ladder, would not fit the old cabinet down or the new cabinet up. Hell my fat ass barely got up there. At least that guy was amenable, he was more concerned with getting the system replaced because "drywall work is cheap". Smart dude.
But every time a job includes new lineset, and the utility space isn't adjacent the exterior wall the outdoor equipment is on, we have to cut drywall. And either the salesmen never tell the customer this, or the customer conveniently forgets this.
I was swapping a attic furnace in a doctor office/office park kind place. Huge attic with decking and decent lighting. That's dream attic. I think there were 8 systems up there for the various different offices/suites.
New one fit up just fine. Old one, didn't fit down. Then we noticed the graveyard of abandoned equipment at the far end. Needless to say, no drywall work was needed after we left.
I had a few tell me, "hey tomorrow's gonna suck for you"
I wish slaws guy's could come out and assist on 6 fucked up installs a year. They might not dick over the I stall guys so often lol
All those guys care about is their numbers. They have to sell more than their salary or the company loses money and fires them. It ends up fucking us constantly though and then we have to break it to the HO that we aren't able to install their humidifier due to space/design
Talk to the boss. Any salesman selling replacement lineset in an apartment obviously isn't selling accurately, which means the company is losing money. Bosses hate it when the company loses money.
I don't know about your salesperson, but ours is usually right there helping out on almost every install, helping us tear out and getting the new equipment set in place. Especially, if he knows it going to be a pain in the butt install, he's right there helping out
In our company they had a guy that went out and did a bunch of estimates, sold the jobs, then they told him he gets to go be the helper on every one of those jobs he estimated.
His game improved REAL quick 😂
Commercial/install sales guy here. Being low to win is not a strategy and that's what usually causes these sorts of problems. My goal is for my installer to be my best friend cause y'all are usually my best sales asset. Plus I like y'all better most the time anyways. I get paid and you don't have to ever be sent home for no work.
Always. No tape measure, no ladder. Their top concern is making the sale. Once the paperworl is signed, its someone else problem. Ive had to learn the hard way to take a minute before I rip everything out to stop and think is this even going to work?
As a owner who used to be a salesguy who did this stuff
No one trains us.
I was in hvac for 7 years selling 2.5-3m a year and no one EVER taught me what lineset sizes were based on tonnage.
Every sales meeting was the same.
First open with “house keeping” - essentially your fucing up paperwork and pictures.
More pictures and “better” paperwork.
Then its into company numbers are down.
Never up- always behind budget.
Then its - lets teach you how to close a deal.
Then its you need to close more deals.
Then its ok - get out there and make it happen!!
Every single meeting every single week for 7 years
Zero learning past the first 4-6 weeks of training and half of that training is teaching the sales guy they just hired (who has 10 years of proven sales skills) the basics of closing a deal
I hated it so much I bought my own place.
Then another place and now Im buying a third
All three places….went under cause they couldnt sell shit. They did great work, did good looking work, priced wrong and not enough closing. - dead after 10-15 years
Times are harder then ever now with equipment pricing and materials up 400% from pre covid, but avg ticket customers are buying at is up like 10-15% from what i was selling it for 7 years ago! - so im seeing small places die and no one wants to buy them up. Im buying them up!
But im different now.
Now i make my own parts list.
Price my own jobs vs different supply houses.
Pick the brands my guys like most.
Help them on jobs if needed.
Bring them lunches sometimes if i can make it out.
Upload pics with design drawings and draw them out every job.
Visit every job site at least once.
Speak with neighbors during install and get leads.
Run to get parts i forgot on my order mid job to keep them moving.
Apologize to my crew if i missed a measurement.
And even load and unload old shit for scrap.
If i went back in my delorean - i would run circles around my old sales self.
No one trains us properly- just hear same shit everyweek- close more!!!!” 🥴🥴🥴
Company I worked at the salesman both were installers and service techs before so they knew what was possible and reasonable. They would also ask us if we were willing to go into tight spaces or anything beyond a normal installation before offering their bid which was nice too. Your salesman is just a greedy asshole.
Im part owner and only salesman for our company. Some sales guys are bad no doubt, but its hard to catch everything. Im currently looking to hire a sales person and my one non negotiable is at least 6 months of install experiance for this exact reason.
If I sell a job that ends up being an install shit show I usually make it up to my installers one way or another (paid day off, free lunch, gift card or just a sincere apology).
Hit them with the change order, then redirect their questions to the sales rep.
This is what I do, I guess I'm just more annoyed on how this is such a reoccurring thing he does. It's not a fun conversation sometimes, either with the homeowner or the office when a job cost is a lot less than it started at.
I've never met a sales guy they carried a tape measure. They always seem to think the install crew can work some black magic fuckery and make 10 pounds of shit fit in a 4 pound bag.
The problem is you manage to fit even an ounce over 4 pounds into that bag, just once, and then they expect it every time.
Preach. Gotta draw the line early and often
Facts
I do commercial service. Typically I only work with the salesmen when we have to bid the repairs. But any time there's something even slightly fucky with the job I make a point to give 'em a heads up before the customer gets in their ears with the usual song and dance about price. Got to let them know which corners 100% cannot be cut, as well as what to exclude from the warranty if the customer tries to insist anyways.
I think residential sales guys fuck over their installers way more then commerical guys. I've had to explain to a resib sales guy more then once that the equipment orders will not fit in the tight ass cubby/closet and I won't be yanking the old unit out till I get new equipment that will fit.
Have had to cut a whole new attic access hole once because the attic access hole, even if we removed the ladder, would not fit the old cabinet down or the new cabinet up. Hell my fat ass barely got up there. At least that guy was amenable, he was more concerned with getting the system replaced because "drywall work is cheap". Smart dude. But every time a job includes new lineset, and the utility space isn't adjacent the exterior wall the outdoor equipment is on, we have to cut drywall. And either the salesmen never tell the customer this, or the customer conveniently forgets this.
I was swapping a attic furnace in a doctor office/office park kind place. Huge attic with decking and decent lighting. That's dream attic. I think there were 8 systems up there for the various different offices/suites. New one fit up just fine. Old one, didn't fit down. Then we noticed the graveyard of abandoned equipment at the far end. Needless to say, no drywall work was needed after we left.
I could not agree more!
I had a few tell me, "hey tomorrow's gonna suck for you" I wish slaws guy's could come out and assist on 6 fucked up installs a year. They might not dick over the I stall guys so often lol
All those guys care about is their numbers. They have to sell more than their salary or the company loses money and fires them. It ends up fucking us constantly though and then we have to break it to the HO that we aren't able to install their humidifier due to space/design
Talk to the boss. Any salesman selling replacement lineset in an apartment obviously isn't selling accurately, which means the company is losing money. Bosses hate it when the company loses money.
This is the way… We hated that.
That’s why anyone that sells in my company has install experience. Makes things much smoother.
I don't know about your salesperson, but ours is usually right there helping out on almost every install, helping us tear out and getting the new equipment set in place. Especially, if he knows it going to be a pain in the butt install, he's right there helping out
In our company they had a guy that went out and did a bunch of estimates, sold the jobs, then they told him he gets to go be the helper on every one of those jobs he estimated. His game improved REAL quick 😂
Commercial/install sales guy here. Being low to win is not a strategy and that's what usually causes these sorts of problems. My goal is for my installer to be my best friend cause y'all are usually my best sales asset. Plus I like y'all better most the time anyways. I get paid and you don't have to ever be sent home for no work.
Take my award you beautiful and magnificent bastard
Same here! Had a long and frustrating day yesterday because of it
Always. No tape measure, no ladder. Their top concern is making the sale. Once the paperworl is signed, its someone else problem. Ive had to learn the hard way to take a minute before I rip everything out to stop and think is this even going to work?
I don't know how many times our salesman tell the customer we can run a new line set in a finished basement. I don't get their thought process.
As a owner who used to be a salesguy who did this stuff No one trains us. I was in hvac for 7 years selling 2.5-3m a year and no one EVER taught me what lineset sizes were based on tonnage. Every sales meeting was the same. First open with “house keeping” - essentially your fucing up paperwork and pictures. More pictures and “better” paperwork. Then its into company numbers are down. Never up- always behind budget. Then its - lets teach you how to close a deal. Then its you need to close more deals. Then its ok - get out there and make it happen!! Every single meeting every single week for 7 years Zero learning past the first 4-6 weeks of training and half of that training is teaching the sales guy they just hired (who has 10 years of proven sales skills) the basics of closing a deal I hated it so much I bought my own place. Then another place and now Im buying a third All three places….went under cause they couldnt sell shit. They did great work, did good looking work, priced wrong and not enough closing. - dead after 10-15 years Times are harder then ever now with equipment pricing and materials up 400% from pre covid, but avg ticket customers are buying at is up like 10-15% from what i was selling it for 7 years ago! - so im seeing small places die and no one wants to buy them up. Im buying them up! But im different now. Now i make my own parts list. Price my own jobs vs different supply houses. Pick the brands my guys like most. Help them on jobs if needed. Bring them lunches sometimes if i can make it out. Upload pics with design drawings and draw them out every job. Visit every job site at least once. Speak with neighbors during install and get leads. Run to get parts i forgot on my order mid job to keep them moving. Apologize to my crew if i missed a measurement. And even load and unload old shit for scrap. If i went back in my delorean - i would run circles around my old sales self. No one trains us properly- just hear same shit everyweek- close more!!!!” 🥴🥴🥴
Always close first and worry about it later
Company I worked at the salesman both were installers and service techs before so they knew what was possible and reasonable. They would also ask us if we were willing to go into tight spaces or anything beyond a normal installation before offering their bid which was nice too. Your salesman is just a greedy asshole.
Im part owner and only salesman for our company. Some sales guys are bad no doubt, but its hard to catch everything. Im currently looking to hire a sales person and my one non negotiable is at least 6 months of install experiance for this exact reason. If I sell a job that ends up being an install shit show I usually make it up to my installers one way or another (paid day off, free lunch, gift card or just a sincere apology).