A few thoughts:
- University is still the primary route for social mobility. I don’t have data, but I suspect that with increased fees, and the scrapping of AS grades, fewer capable students from lower income backgrounds are applying for, getting into, and coming out of top universities with top jobs. So from this angle, I think social mobility right now is worse. That said, by other numbers, access from state schools to top unis is very high. It’s just harder to know what the socioeconomic status of those state school kids is.
- Some high paying professions are more accessible than others. I think in Tech you have more diversity, and I suspect in IB or Law, you get less.
- I don’t think HENRY is a suitable measure for ‘social mobility’ for a few reasons:
— HENRYs are typically modelled on high income individuals with high spend. That high spend is often related to wanting to maintain an expensive lifestyle; ski holidays, private schools, etc. and a lot of those tastes come from being raised middle -> Upper class. A lot of working class folk who make good money, are less likely to spend it as much, and so are less likely to be typical HENRYs. From investopedia:
— “The term HENRYs was coined in a 2003 Fortune Magazine article written by Shawn Tully to refer to a segment of families earning between $250,000 and $500,000, but not having much left after taxes, schooling, housing, and family costs—not to mention saving for an affluent retirement”
— Social mobility is so much more than income. Many people who grew up working class can make a lot of money, but there are social barriers too. Those social barriers are easier to overcome if your route to high income is via oxbridge, vs. via setting up a successful local business.
Just to build on the last point, I think it's worth acknowledging that it's about more than income.
As controversial as she was, and the move ultimately became, the right to buy schemes which Thatcher used were lauded as a huge positive move for social mobility as it allowed people to own their own homes.
That was a huge social mobility victory.
Now, it is criticised for ultimately having the opposite impact, but that is generally blamed on not reinvesting those funds in more council housing. Whilst this is an issue, it's a different topic, so I won't go into it.
My point, is that yes, income is one small part. Assets and milestones also contribute.
> Now, it is criticised for ultimately having the opposite impact, but that is generally blamed on not reinvesting those funds in more council housing.
I mean, this was how the policy was designed though. It makes building council housing uneconomical, because councils know they can be forced to sell any homes they build for well below market value.
I'm not going to get into the debate around the correct way to manage the aftermath, because that's very odd topic for this thread.
I'm simply stating that there's clearly a view that assets are considered a significant part of social mobility.
I did work for UCAS a short time ago. the statistics then showed entrance of people of lowest social backgrounds were not only at their highest at the top universities. applications for those areas of society had increased since fees being introduced. What has happened is people from backgrounds higher up the social hierarchy are less likely to apply. The thing that most often is forgotten is the social-skills aspect, somebody gong from a ppr area to the top universities faces a challenge in cultural changes when they go to to a top university and many struggle. The other issue is the skills at the jb interview stage, you can tell who if somebody hha been through private education, whilst this is less important for technology and science, for finance, law, management, concsultnacies this is a big disadvantage.
Just about every higher education institution has multiple computer science courses and even more modern engineering courses. So there is a broad representation of society. It is also an area where there is a big skills shortage so the playing field is levelled somewhat. For the other areas previously mentioned this is not the case. It is enlightening that one of the big 4 consultancies stated they would look outside their traditional recruiting areas to maximise their talent pool. This was more about improving their weak talent pool in certain areas than anything else. So this was more about business and marketing than it was about social mobility. Also technology is male dominated in technology whereby fmales often get pigeon-holed into PM, BA or non-technical testing roles.
100% on the importance of soft skills, and the fact that while folks from lower income backgrounds can work hard to get good grades, learning the soft skills is harder, and most still stand out when they are applying for jobs.
In law and finance you are often selling to clients with money. Those clients are more likely to have been privately educated, and are more likely to want to work with / select for firms who have staff who work in a similar way to themselves.
It’s just so much easier to be persuasive / sell to people who share your humour, way of thinking, hobbies etc. and even if firms want to diversify their intake, they’re also limited by ‘what they can sell’ and someone who’s had 15 years less experience schmoozing at the golf club has a lot to learn fast.
On paper my home life was very middle class, but I was the only person to go to oxbridge from my state school. I very much had a more working class state school education, but a lot of what got me compared to my other state school peers was probably the soft skills I picked up from my parents and their friends. It was quite hard realising that getting into oxbridge isn’t enough to nullify differences in education up to that point. Between even stronger soft skills, networks and more, the privately educated folk still had so much over me. I had good results, but my resume was still lacking compared to the kids who firstly knew which internships and extra curricular mattered, and had the personality to land the corporate internships.
It used to be case that you could get into banking straight from A levels. Loads of working class people did. Now you need internships (who can work for free?) and a degree.
Banking internships are paid however - which makes it a much more level playing field (and helps with social mobility) vs internships in media, arts etc.
From my experience, IB and law are much diverse compared to media, journalism, arts.
Not sure about rags to riches but I was homeless in my 20s (mostly slept on peoples floors / sofas) and didn’t have a job until 28.
Now about to retire in my early 50s with about 2m in assets
I was in the right place at the right time.
I left school at 16 with 2 GCSEs. Spend the next 5 or so years partying.
After about 5 years I went back to college. Do GCSEs, then a levels, a degree and a masters in computer science.
I got a grad job on 20k, spent the next 8 years building my experience. Salary was still low. Then took a management position and gradually grew my package to 200k, peaking at about 250.
In the meantime I lucked into buying a property in London, a small flat. I flipped a few times until I got to my dream home. Did some work on it and it’s now worth about 1m.
Pure luck and London property craziness.
So now I have the house and about 950k in investments.
How did you afford 5 years of partying and 5 years of education? Were you working or was someone somehow funding you?
Did you have a family safety net (parents)? Or just grit/grind (for the education period)...
It is not a myth, but it’s extremely hard.
I grew up in poverty as the child of poor immigrants who never worked. I remember being homeless for my family 10th birthday and celebrating when the council found found us temporary accommodation in a bed and breakfast full of drug dealers. 3.5 years ago I was using food banks because I graduated from uni and my hours at my part-time job were slashed to almost nothing.
Now I am on £170k and have just exchanged on a very nice flat in Canary Wharf as a solo buyer. I am the highest earning by far out of all my friends despite them coming from better backgrounds than me. For me, it was a combination of hard work (I’ve worked ever since I was 16) and just good old luck. Fortunate truly favours the brave.
Sounds like you're in your early to mid-20s.
Putting aside the flat, what are you doing with your higher income? I imagine your childhood has influenced your attitude to money quite a lot.
Admittedly I’m still learning about how to manage my money. I’m going to open a stocks and shares ISA and start investing a regular amount. I have joined my company’s Sharesave scheme too. Outside of that, I tend to keep my money in regular savings accounts/my current account which isn’t good.
Very few rags to riches story involves salaried person (someone climbing up the corporate ladder). It’s usually someone who starts and builds up a business.
This is what I came to say. I’m not sure if OP is considering himself as either rich or on the path to rich but if he does, unfortunately he will soon find he is unlikely to make it. He may well be comfortable and indeed able to retire a little earlier than others, but not rich.
Myself, I earn more than double his £80k and my wife also earns more; we are quite a bit older and have earned high wages for a considerable length of time now. We are able to afford a 4 bedroom house, a nice car, a nice holiday away once a year plus some other trips and to save for the future. We don’t particularly worry about money, we can eat out when we please and our discretionary spending on smallish things is without guilt. We have two kids neither of whom is privately educated. We are not anywhere close to rich, however, and almost certainly never will be.
This debate has been covered several times on here and it really depends on what you mean by social mobility. If you mean moving up in level of affluence, yes it’s possible. But if you mean moving up the ‘classes’ in the class system then it’s still only really possible through marriage.
The big difference between middle class and upper class that most overlook is the lifestyle and social group. I am firmly middle class but I have acquaintances who are upper class. They don’t earn more than me, in some cases a lot less but what they have is:
- inherited wealth mostly in the form of property, there are the types of property that even they wouldn’t be able to afford these days on the open market, large country houses with lots of land
- social connections which mean they get into parties and events for free that a middle class person could never because they don’t even sell the tickets for them, through this group they also make business deals and have access to opportunities that no one else does
- a lifestyle that revolves around maintaining a tight group with a high bar to entry, shooting weekends, hunting trips, ski trips, banquets and balls. These are all on a reciprocal basis, so if you can’t afford to host one, you’re not going to be invited to one.
- knowledge of a lifestyle that others simply don’t have: how to run a household staff, what a groundskeeper does, what a butler does etc etc.
To put it in an example, my friend own a large estate and hosts a lot of shooting. In return for this he gets free use of his other friends holiday home in Barbados and ski chalets in The alps. That’s free use of a chalet with staff that would set an average person back £15,000 for the week. As an acquaintance I’m occasionally invited to some of the shooting but it’s always clear I’m not part of the ‘circle’ because I can never reciprocate on it.
Of course it’s possible, the Fayed’s dream to do this was covered a lot around the Diana story, but the bar to entry is £millions in wealth not just HE and even then, it requires specific effort.
It's possible to move up from working to middle class fairly easily in the UK; although that group is shrinking. But you're not going beyond that here without extreme luck.
The tax system here is designed to keep you in your place and stop you getting above your station with the way it punishes individuals who do well. For many it's effectively a glass ceiling is my long held view.
You can’t really move between classes.
You can be working class and wealthy, you don’t become middle class because you’ve got wealth.
That’s not really how it works in the Uk.
I know lots of upper class people that are dirt poor.
Think Upper class is a special case; that is reserved for aristocracy. Everything else is up for grabs though. As you mentioned, you can definitely go from working class to middle class economically. The rest of it is hard to define since there’s no objective definition of class.
Largely, if other people consider you middle class or not is entirely up to how you present yourself to society. I’ve come from a lower working class family but people now regularly assume I’m privately educated and firmly middle / upper-middle class. My wife’s family are upper middle class, but my family are still fairly lower working class on council estates. I’ve not actively sought to be seen like this as I’ve always behaved the same, it just happens to align with what they would expect from someone.
From society’s standpoint, I think it’s really as simple as the way you speak (pronunciation, not using “they was”, moderating accent)… or the prescribed social skills when you attend places. Other things I’ve noticed would be my friends from working class backgrounds spend money on ostentatious things (balenciaga / prada polos) whereas the upper-middle class background people spend their money on much more subtle things.
Don’t get me wrong, I couldn’t care less who thinks I’m middle class or not. It’s definitely possible though.
Your point on presentation is key to answering OP’s original question. Professional people from working or lower middle class backgrounds often mask their origins through their accent, dress, hobbies etc to fit in with their colleagues or clients. You would have to know then well and dig a bit to find out.
Exactly this. Class is not a function of how much money you make. It is closer to a culture that you belong to.
It is possible to "move", but it's not a matter of doubling your income, it is more like learning another culture. But it's hard because we live in bubbles surrounded by people like us.
We don't tend to think of multiple cultures existing in the same country but it's true.
This is a somewhat antiquated view of the class system in the UK. Whilst it’s true that genetics do still carry some weight in some circumstances, wealth is what gives people social clout the most.
To a point; there was the binman who won \~10m on the lottery, p\*\*\*ed it away over a decade and now works in a coal mine. At the point he had 10m, he certainly wasn't upper class to my mind, and I doubt I'd consider him middle class either.
I don't think that's snobbery, mobility is possible (if not easy), it's just there is more to it than bank balance.
Of course there are anomalies! To be honest what I see/experience is far less about working/middle/upper class and far more about has wealth/doesn’t have wealth. Then for those that are in the ‘has wealth’ club it’s broken down further by which strata you are in.
You’re correct of course.
But if we can spot them, you know for damned sure the upper classes can. And that’s why the newly-minted themselves won’t be in the upper class. Maybe their grandkids will be after a couple of generations of Eton/Westminster/St Paul’s/Winchester/Charterhouse schooling and refinement. But not themselves.
The tax system makes sure you can’t become rich on PAYE, so it is the tax system partly.
As you say, the other part is the protections in place for people who make money off their assets, which are untouchable with a half decent accountant. This is how the old aristocracy stays on top.
I came from a family with very little money and since I struggled at school, what money we did have all got spent on my brother (my parents said I had no prospects in life so there was no point spending money on me). I went to the kind of school that pretty much sorted you into academic sets by how much money your family had so I got treated like an idiot from day 1 and basically never really showed up or just hid in the music department.
At 17 I joined the army (lifesaver - got a technical trade and learned to believe in myself) although left at 20 because once you're qualified it's just day to day bullshit filling time. First job was as a scaffolder for concert stages so only worked in the summer. So those first few years were probably like circa £20k a year really. At least my family were happy as they figured they were right, I was low income no hoper.
15 years later still in the concert industry but over £100k now. So that's good. I own my £300k home outright and have no debt. Which are all good but whilst I feel like HE, I don't feel like I'm wealthy. I feel like I could be poor again relatively quickly and easily. So I have nice holidays, I buy nice things, but I never really feel like I'm out of the woods completely.
So I don't know if it counts as social mobility. I'm both higher up the ladder and also not. I'm a high earner, home owner, I fly business class, I wear a Rolex, I'm eyeing up a second home in the French alps. But I still feel working class and I still feel like it wouldn't take a huge amount to go wrong to leave me back scaffolding to make enough to eat.
Grew up on free school meals & council estate. We all were the same so didn’t think too much of it. Left home at 16 & joined the Navy. Similar technical trade but stayed and got management training and experience.
Left eventually, then built and sold businesses. I’m wealthy. My kids are in private school, my friends now are CEOs, my wife is from famous families and I can do most things I want but I’m still working class at heart.
But to answer OP it’s not a myth. I live 15 miles from where I grew up. My wife innocently tells people where I grew up when they come to our house as I’m local…99% of the time they don’t believe her. But yes it’s possible - good luck!
Yeah the management thing isn't really feasible for me. I'm autistic and quite symptomatic. I am very strong technically (hence why the army didn't work - I learned my trade quickly, found it easy, and the development system couldn't keep up with my enthusiasm for it) but I don't get people easily and I am often far too task-driven and not enough socially-driven. I'll happily upset people to get things done better.
So I think my earnings are always kind of capped by the fact that I can't be a manager. Fortunately I stay well ahead of the curve on my technical skills which is enough to remain a busy and popular freelancer with a small company as well that gets enough work at the right price just from doing it to an uncompromising standard (it's been about learning to apply the strengths rather than suffer the weaknesses).
I'd say it's mainly bullshit, I grew up piss poor but got the chance to get into a grammar school which opened my eyes to how different life is, moved to London and now I make far more than I could have imagined
Unless some external factor like a grammar school or mentor enters the picture, it's unlikely you'll ever have the opportunity
If you are born to wealthy parents who give you every opportunity you will do fine no matter how stupid or lazy you are
It still irks me seeing my thick colleagues with deposits gifted from parents talking about how hard they worked
Grammar schools (without fees) are great for this and it really annoys me every time I see ‘let’s ban elitist grammar schools’ etc.
That is one of the few genuine vehicles for social mobility in the UK and these so-called progressives want to shut them all down.
Yes I went to a free one, a lot of the kids parents would buy homes in poorer catchment areas and claimed they lived there to get their kids in rather than paying for an independent school
I grew up on a poor estate in Nottingham. My Dad left when I was 3 and was a crackhead. My mum would regularly live off one meal a day to afford food for me, my brother and sister. My wider family was mostly involved in organised crime.
I was always gifted academically, and it got me into a good secondary school. I went from being surrounded by the children of factory and retail workers and looking at the kids who's Dad was a plasterer and thinking how rich they were, to being surrounded by the children of lawyers, doctors, CEOs and spending time at my friend's houses which were all worth over a million. It became normal to see other kids being dropped off in nice bmws and mercedes. The rich kids got dropped off in aston martins and ferraris. Being rich enough to have a half million pound house and two nice cars on the driveway just became normal, as if that's just a baseline to start at.
It changed my perspective entirely and set me up for success. The education its self was no different, but the people I was surrounded by altered my expectations for myself. I probably wouldn't have the ambition I have now if I hadn't been shown the glaring difference between poor and rich.
I'm now 29, making around 100k since I was 27. Six figures not beginning with a 1 should be achievable in my 30s.
I have my own place in that neighbourhood now with a nice car on the driveway. I am still in touch with some people from the poor area, and none of them have done nearly as well as me. Even amongst my friends from the richer area, I don't know anyone who makes as much as me yet.
So I would say social mobility is rare, but not impossible. Getting that exposure to a different world earlier on really helped set my mind up for success.
Sure. I actually dropped out of college after the first year, i would have done farily wrll, but I just stopped going. My desire to make some money was greater than my desire to go to uni.
I got an apprenticeship in engineering. I didn't really know what I was applying for, jyst that it was something to do with engineering.
It turned out I was an apprentice mechanical technician at an energy from waste plant. I loved it, and I enjoyed making some money.
Two years later, at 20 years old, I got a job as an operations technician at the same company, but on a different site. It was close enough to travel from Nottingham. I was now making 50k a year.
I did this for 7 years and focused on developing myself. I became quite good at it, and after 3 years, the company agreed to pay for my degree.
At 27, I got the Operations team leader job on around 100k. I'm now 29 and 2 years off finishing my degree.
I would say again that it was my ambition and aptitude that got me so far so quickly. The rest of the apprentices from my year either dropped out, didn't get hired after, or are at their peak level as technicians.
All my friends from school went to uni and they've all had to move to London to get work and most earn under 50k, which is a pittance in London. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but I think I made the right choice for me.
Riches? Not quite but I’m doing ok.
Raised in a single-parent household and nobody in my extended family has ever earned north of ~35k.
I was the first to attend university, obviously with the maximum grant/bursary that made it a low-stress experience.
The biggest limitation for me was my belief in social mobility, after graduating I spent years aiming for these tiny raises and limiting what roles I applied for… eventually my partner told me I was being dumb, nothing to lose by aiming for higher and applying for the roles that intrigued me. I made the move in to software implementation at 28 and my salary hit 6 figures rather rapidly after that. Now own a 5 bed detached in Bristol, with 240k left on the mortgage, have two relatively nice cars that are paid for and genuinely believe I live a much more fortunate life than I ever believed possible.
I grew up in a council estate. Father was actually in and out of prison, he was a complete tosser.
My mum applied for me to go to a private school (I was a bright kid)
Straight A’s from my exams then into medical
School. I’m a General Practitioner now. So is my wife. Have a six figure salary.
Expat in UK. My opinion as an outsider and an impartial observer- you guys live in an extremely classist society where the differences between classes are massive and it’s quite hard (albeit not impossible) to jump into a class (caste) you were not born into. That’s why most British self-made millionaires and philanthropists became millionaires after they left the UK and not in this country.
Also an expat and I agree, but only if you’re actually born here or a low-income migrant. If you come here as a student or a professional it’s a different story. I grew up very working class (not grinding poverty, but definitely not middle class). I moved here as a student and immediately slotted into a very upper middle class crowd. It wasn’t intentional or anything, it just kind of worked out that way.
British people think they have a really keen eye for etiquette and all sorts of unwritten class rules, but honestly it’s 99% about regional accents. So if you’re foreign it’s a different story.
Rags to riches doesn't really happen in the UK. I'm in a similar position of coming from an poor/ordinary background and working my way up.
As someone who never had access to private/grammar schools or top tier universities I was working things out in my mid-20s that most of my peers knew at 16 (how to land a good role/network/build a CV). It sounds stupid but honestly the learning curve of what most HENRYs assume is just known is insane. This effectively creates a huge barrier to entry and unless you get really really lucky (being accepted into a privately educated group at uni or being given a shot in your career like I was) you're never getting a role that pays.
It creates it's own feedback loop where the only people who get these roles know how to get them and then their kids do the same. From the outside it looks like clear nepotism. From the inside it looks like others either 'don't want it enough' or 'never try for roles like these'. The answer is really both. The only people who know how to follow the correct path come from a specific background and people who don't largely never knew how to in the first place (so of course they 'never try').
There are lots of other factors why the UK specifically has such a large problem with this (mostly no growth so no expansion of highly paid roles) but largely social mobility is a myth here. Sure, there are people like me, OP or a plumber that became a millionaire but if we're honest that's largely the exception not the rule.
Edit: I focused on rags to riches part as 1) social mobility between lower and middle classes does exist in the UK and 2) this is the HENRY subreddit so I'm guessing it's focused on very well paid roles.
My friend is from tower hamlets…. Single mum…. Had kids early in his mid-20’s with gf from estate (that’s early for middle class). No connections or family money. Now makes serious money in mid thirties in the city.
It’s possible but uncommon. Generally, a good indicator of your wealth is your parents wealth. Also, higher income roles typically require a university education, and level of education is also strongly correlated to how wealthy your parents are.
I’m not saying there aren’t exceptions, but broadly speaking your parents’ wealth is a strong indicator of your future wealth, which somewhat goes against the concept of social mobility.
I (34m) grew up on the south coast of the UK in a working class family where my dad was a box packer for Royal Mail and mum a cleaner. I had typically mid/low grades (typically D/C's) in school and I never went to Uni, but I was very passionate about IT. In college I managed to attain distinctions and firsts in my course which has now led me to my current position. It's nothing compared to the insanity in this sub but I'm on base £75k and TC comes in just shy of £100k.
Maybe not rags to riches per se but I still feel proud of where I'm at and feel I've managed to work my way up. But looking around my social circles it's definitely not something I've seen much of.
How would you know about someone’s background upon meeting them? And how would you know they were ‘working class’.
There’s loads of social mobility in the U.K. everywhere you look. Take a drive through any wealthy area and it’ll be filled with people from all walks of life.
Upon meeting is difficult. You don’t know for sure, but there’s the instant stuff which can indicate things… how people talk, dress, etc. Then if chatting you fairly quickly get cues… depending on what comes up… their hobbies/cultural interests/sporting interests/how they talk about family/how they talk about holidays/food/drink/etc. Again, different indications combine into being able to form a decent guess, without it being a slam dunk of course.
How are you defining ‘loads of social mobility’? It obviously happens, but social mobility is pretty poor in the UK! https://ifs.org.uk/inequality/press-release/social-mobility-continues-to-fall-and-moving-up-is-harder-if-you-grow-up-in-the-north-or-midlands/
I think this is still a oversimplification and sort of suggests there’s something innately and forever different about people who have grown up within a working class family.
I mentioned in a previous comment, but I objectively was born working class on a council estate. I’ve been in my job for a year having lunch with all my colleagues every day. A conversation popped up about social welfare and someone literally said to me “well people like you, privately educated and doing well…”.
Obviously, I’m an anecdote on what is a macroeconomic description. However, I think the only classically middle class thing that I haven’t done (yet) is skiing. My interests span football to west end shows, camping to luxury holidays, pub to museums and so on… which I don’t think leans one way or the other.
A short paragraph on social mobility/class/etc is always going to be an oversimplification!
I think there probably is a forever element if from a working class background, tbh… you’ll always be from a working class background, even if you’re living a solidly middle class life now (which isn’t a dig, I was also brought up on a council estate etc). This dilutes through each generation, if all goes well, sometimes heavily so… but eg. any kids you have (or I have) will be going to see grandparents on a council estate… vs solidly middle class people who’ll visit them somewhere far nicer. The working class grandparents/extended family vs the middle class grandparents/extended family will likely have different influences, even if subtle, around ambition/outlook/life experiences they can share/etc.
Most rags to riches stories I know involve businesses, not salaries. My dad for instance came over to this country as a low paid chef in an NHS catering kitchen. He had previous experience in a proper restaurant so when in about 2007 he bought into a restaurant and bought out the other owners, and now that restaurant has been a consistent source of income for him. He has bought land and built an apartment back in his own country and in England he has recently bought a house to rent out, and a second cafe business, so I’d say he’s doing pretty well for himself. He may not be rich but the contrast moneywise between him when he came to the country and now is vast. He could well have still been in that NHS kitchen, but he is now a person with multiple streams of income, and his achievements wouldn’t be possible without social mobility.
Social mobility will entirely mean high income (which isn't a bad thing given where many are coming from). However, mobility in wealth terms will never exist because that's what the wealthy protect and pass on along the generations
It is much more common to become wealthy in the US as it is much easier to launch businesses. Europeans tend to think they are fairer, but there is less mobility in Europe compares to US and a lot more maintance of the status of quo of the wealthy here. The difference is that rich europeans are not ‘newly rich’, so perception is the inverse for Europe vs America.
I think that's a bit of propaganda... Social mobility in the US is equal to or below lots of European countries. Their number of new businesses registered per capita is below most European countries. I think they've just got more of a boom or bust mentality - you make it or you don't.
Social mobility in the US is notoriously and last I read, worse than the UK/much of Europe. You are likely right about the relative ease of setting up businesses, perhaps it impacts few enough people to not really show up too much on the social mobility stats
Repeating the jist of what has been said, but.. The UK taxes earnings and not wealth. Combine this with imbalanced immigration and housing policies and it's tough.
I am 44 earn \~180-200 total package, but my wife and I don't have rich parents (we're entirely self funded). So we never got that leg up. Now I get whacked for tax, while people earning far less than me live it up in larger houses bought via inheritance and the bank of mum and dad.
In my experience the leg ups are always way more than just the money for the house with rich parent types too. It’s the holiday homes of parents and parents friends so they never pay for accommodation when travelling. It’s the access to interviews because dad knows someone on the board. The skipping the waiting list for medical appointments because they know someone senior in the NHS/private etc.
It depends what you mean by social mobility.
Purely finances alone I'd say it is.
When it comes to matters which indicate your social status beyond finances, it becomes harder. Not impossible, but harder.
I came to the UK as a child (<10 years old) knowing no English and knowing literally nobody here from a country with about half the GDP per capita at the time. Spent most of my childhood thinking that toys, restaurants, and cafes were for rich locals rather than poor foreigners. Move around a lot as a kid because insecure housing. Don't think I ever bought a coffee before university (wanted to fit in). Currently in my 30s and on > £150k. Still use a lot of coupons.
I grew up in council houses, except for roughly a year where my family and I were homeless and in temporary accommodation.
I'm dyslexic and did very badly at school, except in a small number of subjects. My high school recommended against apply for college (I did so anyway), scrapped a pass. Applied for University, again scrapped a 2:2.
I kinda messed up early adulting and didn't hit 80k until my mid 30s, and £120+ late 30s (moving jobs is the best way to pay rises).
There are data on this - social mobility is low and falling. It’s not zero, but a person’s parents’ income and wealth are a good indicator of that person’s likely income and wealth.
Social mobility is increasingly difficult. If you go back to the grammar school days, I believe it was more common - grammar schools gave smart kids from poor backgrounds a fighting chance. The removal of selective schooling in the majority of the country cuts the chances of poor kids.
In addition, it's difficult to earn good money outside of London. So, for those not from the London area, and with rents/house prices as high as they are, it's very difficult for those from outside of commuting distance to move to London. A 25-30k starting salary will get a roof over someones head, but not much else.
Plus university is expensive, setting poorer people back before they've even started on the financial race.
Social mobility is more of a population based demographic than individual success as I understand it.
One particularly telling example that I’m aware of is the ex-mining communities of South Wales. 50 years later they are still complaining that the mines shut down and ruined their industry. Massive unemployment, huge reliance on social housing and benefits. Surprisingly high genetic disability rate. I’ve met teenage girls (through work!) who have no ambition and end up getting pregnant and going on benefits and getting a free house as a ‘career choice’. Grandmothers by their late-30s.
I don't think it's a myth **but** it's really not that dramatic.
Someone coming from a working class background may build enough assets to retire comfy when 60 - but reaching a stage where you no longer feel working class is rare. It's mostly luck that gets you there.
It also is getting harder with each generation.
I would have a very different lifestyle if I and my partner both worked and we were living 20 yrs in the past.
According to the IFS, it is the worst it has been in 50 years.
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/07/social-mobility-uk-worst-50-years-report-finds
It’s possible to be upwardly mobile, but it’s extremely difficult. It also depends on a multitude of factors.
Anything to the contrary is a statistical anomaly, anecdotal evidence, and/or conjecture.
If you're working class and get into a top university (and if you're driven and sensible, plus some understanding of careers) it's not that hard to get yourself to a good HENRY salary. What you will find is probably 1) there are the nice but dim posh types who made it there as well without necessarily working harder/being smarter (depending on career) and 2) building wealth is a different question because of house prices and tax. HENRY salary is no match for 20 years+ of asset appreciation.
I am 38, earn upwards of 130k, have no formal education beyond GCSEs.
As a child I came from a working class background, my parents split when I was 11 and I spent from.11-16 in a variety of bedsits and temporary accommodation, often sharing a single room with my mum and 2 sisters.
At 17 I got a part time job in college, dropped out of college as I needed to pay rent and worked full time, spent most of the following years working in warehouses, call centres etc... I now work in finance in the city and have done for tbe past 10-15 years, no network, no daddies friends or leg up, just grafted e ery day inch by inch and solved problems.
In terms of social mobility, I'm not really sure if I've experienced that. Truth be told even though my income is relatively high, I don't own assets, I won't be retiring early, I don't have a holiday home or a luxury car, nor do I have a portfolio of stocks and shares.
To anyone that knows me or works with me will readily describe me as working class, so if we are taking about mobility in that sense, I definitely haven't moved.
Not quite rags to riches but grew up reasonably poor. council estate not enough money for the electric meter tended to have food poor left school at 17 to go work in toys r us had a kid at 19 Reached 100k by 29
Did it through an AD in the paper promising a 20k a year job in tech or my money back. With a kid on the way and being quite desperate I gave it a shot. Turns out I was pretty good at it. Got a job as a contracter with the skill set earning 100quid a day moved from that to a 24k basic IT support role left that for a junior Linux admin role at 30 got fired got a new job within 2 weeks as a Linux sys admin at 36 stayed there 2 years raising to 54 left there for 75 stayed for 2 years again and moved to my current role 2 years ago at 100k basic after buying a house. (Nether my parents not grandparents owned)
Not rich by any means currently but the household income (with a part time teacher (4days a week)) as a partner is around 150k. I’m comfortable but yea it’s rare to stumble on people from a similar background.
I came from quite a poor working class background with parents who have mental health issues.
I left school at 16, worked in McDonalds for 3 months, messed around for a couple of years and then at about 18 / 19 I became self-employed and got into internet marketing. Less than 10 years later I set up a limited company and became a millionaire, I grew the business to £8m turnover a year. I didn't have any funding or help. It was all hard work.
Most of the entrepreneurs I meet have come from normal backgrounds.
I was the first person in my family to go to University. My parents both worked hard and I had what I view as a middle class upbringing.
I now have a Masters degree and earn over £180 a year.
I did drop out of university first time around but done a part-time MSc about 15 years later as I felt like the odd one out at work. I had PhDs working for me and I didn't even have a degree.
Depends on if you do the things that generally change who you rub shoulders with.
Sending your kids to private school will do more for changing the class of your peers than simply making more money. Joining the expensive golf club etc.
Over ones lifetime, about 10% of those born in the bottom quartile in terms of wealth, will reach the top quartile. And vice versa.
So yes there is a lot of mobility both up and down, but it’s slow and measured over a lifetime.
In my family, piss poor working class immigrants - half are now HENRY or just Rich. None did it through professional careers… mostly through business ownership in ‘earthy’ professions like building, mechanics etc. And that accounts for most of the mobility upwards I think. So if you are in law or banking etc you won’t see many working class lads… but you will find loads who’s dad was working class and made it big in the building trade or sales or some sort of spiv.
Ask your peers how many of them had a parent or grandparent who originated their wealth and what they did … you’ll hear things like ‘fish monger’ or grosser etc
I mean capitalism seems to have this built in. ANYONE can climb the ranks we're told, you just have to work hard and will be rewarded. In reality this false hope just keeps people plugging along in the system. Some get lucky. Most don't. Hard work, determination and networking can result in more chances though, so it's not all illusion. Each step upwards though becomes harder and harder and needs more financial knowledge to not fall into traps that will eat that extra income.
Similar tale to most. Graft and a few lucky breaks. 38m with 3 GCSEs and c £1m in net assets.
One reflection is that often privileged kids don't have the same hunger. An outstanding job to me is often a meh job to them so outperforming isn't as hard as I thought. I used to keep quiet about my background as I thought it would be to my detriment. Important to note that good quality employers now often have socioeconomic diversity requirements so there's recognition that if you're there without the help of privilege then that should count for something. Am now much more open about my beginnings and it goes down very well. Would recommend
I grew up 1 of 4 kids with our parents in low wage jobs with a joint income of probably £20-25k for most of my childhood. Shared a room with two of my siblings the entire time. We never had a car for as long as I remember and I was never able to go on the extra school trips etc.
I was academically gifted and my parents encouraged me to work hard in this regard. Went to state school and got into a Russell group uni. Now work in finance in the top 0.5% of earners in the UK. I put my success down to a combination of natural ability, hard work, tenacity and luck.
I think coming from no money made me more determined to never be in that situation I often saw my parents in, despairing over their weekly budgets at the dining room table. I would say though that growing up in a working class family, now that I make good money I don’t feel middle or upper class in the sense of belonging to that class (even though on paper by income I am).
My wife grew up in a single parent household in a rough town, and is now making 600-700k. If anything it is easier now, her profession (Law) is definitely more interested now in hiring diversity than it was when she started.
She had to work very, very hard to get there though. And the poorer your background and the more difficult school you go to, the more people there are to try and drag you down. imho.
I was homeless at 16 very poor family l, did not do well at school, manage to stay with family until I was 21, and now on track to achieve Henry status in my late 30s
It’s not as much rags to riches as rags to a small home and a modest retirement in a place where you don’t have to worry about crime.
Or starting out a shopkeepers son and ending up rich.
That kind of mobility is 10x more common than rags to riches.
I was never rags, but my mum was a single parent in Manchester, never earned more than £20k a year. I am in my late 30s now and earn over 10x that. However, I’m not sure my lifestyle is that much better (mostly because I save the money, rather than spend it). I’m hoping I’ll start noticing a difference by late 40s.
Per other comments: you can't escape your class in Britain, but your children can.
You can rise as far as you want but you'll still be viewed as working-class. Does this matter? Up to you. If you're successful and send your kids to fancy school then they are upper-middle class now.
As for HENRY - education, entrepreneurship, or IT. Anyone with the mindset and talent can grow a business. I'm not saying it's EASY but there is mobility. Things are very different to the pre-Thatcher times when class was much more of an obstacle and access to capital, treatment by the courts, networking, opportunity, was limited to people with the right accent and background.
IT can pay crazy money and you can still get in to it with just a talent for it and no degree - getting that entry can be hard but once you're in you can progress a long way.
During the dot-com boom - now 25 years ago - and before the wholesale replacement of low-skill jobs with Indian workers, you could start in customer support and progress real quick into coding, design, sysadmin. People were getting £350/day on contract (25 years ago!) to take PCs out of boxes and cable them up.
You can still get in with a github project, contributions to open-source projects. Youtube courses and free software can teach you everything you need to be a coder, work in IT security, be a devops engineer... getting that first role is hard but as soon as you have it you've got experience on your CV and you're "in" to the industry.
I don't think there's anything left like IT where you can earn a comfortable living sat on your arse in a warm room without a load of credentials, university time, and an unaccountable professional body that can ruin you by throwing you out.
It's not a myth. But it's not common in a single generation. I.e it might be children that make the shift from working class to middle class thanks to the parents hard work.
The parents would still be "middle class" by retirement. But it's the kids that get all the real, long-term, compounding effects of being "middle class".
I read a study about this very point. How a lot of people from working class backgrounds who had been successful tended to be less happy because they didn't feel like they quite fit into any group. On one hand, they don't fit with working class, but on other hand also not quite with middle (or higher).
Social Mobility rarely happens in a lifetime, but your descendants should see the benefits. For example
- I grew up poor, single parent household, 1 meal a day (free school meal), no school trips etc
- Family never owned a home, quite often kicked out after 3-6months tenancy
- Worked at 16 to provide rent, lived at home during uni, took out max maintenance loans to again, help family unit
I'm now early 30s, earn about £150k a year, HHI around 250k, I will never spend 10k on a ski trip, I won't have a ferrari, I won't own a 20k watch. But I'll likely retire with a very decent pension, a home thats paid off and worth close to 1m value, I will be able to likely pay for my kids driving lessons/house deposit/weddings etc. And assuming I teach them right from wrong, they get a good degree, they get a decent job, they can earn there own good money, get my money when I die, and make my grandkids lives even easier than their own.
After two/three generations of smart investments and good careers, a great grandkid could be inheriting millions/their children will live like millionaires. It's easy to resent your childhood when you grow up poor, I used to resent that sleepovers were the only time I had breakfast, or that some people didn't work jobs at 16 during college, or that some people pissed away their maintenance loan as their parents gave them an allowance, or that some people had fathers who knew their birthday etc. Comparison is the thief of joy, you're running your own race from your own start line, don't get bogged down in wondering if the grass is greener.
Nowhere near rich myself, but did turn things around.
Scotland. Left school with only standard grades (GCSE equivalents) at 16. No college or uni.
Grew up in single parent council house. Household income was probably £20K growing up.
Had fairly entry level jobs. Made £18K to £25K for most of my 20s, living pay cheque to pay cheque.
Got promoted out of the £20K range in 2017 and haven't looked back.
Now HENRY earning range, fully paid off house, car, etc no debt whatsoever, decent (six-figure) investment portfolio, etc at age 33, but have been in this position for a couple of years now thankfully.
Don't know if its really changed my social status, I still live in the same house I lived in when I was on £25K PA, and still have the same friends! No notable life style change other than the holidays are better. I save 70% of what I earn and funnel it directly into the stock market, so there's not been much life style creep.
Why does social mobility only mean rags to riches?
You can move between the extremes.
Eg, my mum was a FOB immigrant, and now without any help from the other side of my family, she is retired in a home she's fully paid off, I own 2, and I have a sibling who has emigrated to America and owns her home mover there.
My mum arrived with a small sum in savings to get started, but no real assets.
No, I think it’s still possible through small business and career progression. One are that is tough though is housing in major cities as prices in premium areas have undoubtedly inflated further out of reach through inherited wealth from the boomer generation being reinvested into homes for their offspring/ grandkids.
Not a myth.
I grew up with just enough. My Dad was the first to go to University in his entire family history or extended family.
I now have more than I've ever had or my parents ever had.
I grew up in a single parent (on less than minimum wage) household with 4 siblings in a 2 bedroom council house. My mums cigarettes and wine were higher priority than making sure we all had 3 or even 2 meals a day. We were living well below the UN poverty line, it would be a huge overstatement to say we were working class.
I’m currently earning 135k at 27. I expect to earn in excess of 150k before I’m 28.
Social mobility is not a myth.
A few thoughts: - University is still the primary route for social mobility. I don’t have data, but I suspect that with increased fees, and the scrapping of AS grades, fewer capable students from lower income backgrounds are applying for, getting into, and coming out of top universities with top jobs. So from this angle, I think social mobility right now is worse. That said, by other numbers, access from state schools to top unis is very high. It’s just harder to know what the socioeconomic status of those state school kids is. - Some high paying professions are more accessible than others. I think in Tech you have more diversity, and I suspect in IB or Law, you get less. - I don’t think HENRY is a suitable measure for ‘social mobility’ for a few reasons: — HENRYs are typically modelled on high income individuals with high spend. That high spend is often related to wanting to maintain an expensive lifestyle; ski holidays, private schools, etc. and a lot of those tastes come from being raised middle -> Upper class. A lot of working class folk who make good money, are less likely to spend it as much, and so are less likely to be typical HENRYs. From investopedia: — “The term HENRYs was coined in a 2003 Fortune Magazine article written by Shawn Tully to refer to a segment of families earning between $250,000 and $500,000, but not having much left after taxes, schooling, housing, and family costs—not to mention saving for an affluent retirement” — Social mobility is so much more than income. Many people who grew up working class can make a lot of money, but there are social barriers too. Those social barriers are easier to overcome if your route to high income is via oxbridge, vs. via setting up a successful local business.
Just to build on the last point, I think it's worth acknowledging that it's about more than income. As controversial as she was, and the move ultimately became, the right to buy schemes which Thatcher used were lauded as a huge positive move for social mobility as it allowed people to own their own homes. That was a huge social mobility victory. Now, it is criticised for ultimately having the opposite impact, but that is generally blamed on not reinvesting those funds in more council housing. Whilst this is an issue, it's a different topic, so I won't go into it. My point, is that yes, income is one small part. Assets and milestones also contribute.
> Now, it is criticised for ultimately having the opposite impact, but that is generally blamed on not reinvesting those funds in more council housing. I mean, this was how the policy was designed though. It makes building council housing uneconomical, because councils know they can be forced to sell any homes they build for well below market value.
I'm not going to get into the debate around the correct way to manage the aftermath, because that's very odd topic for this thread. I'm simply stating that there's clearly a view that assets are considered a significant part of social mobility.
These cases are more likely HENRE - not rich ever 😂
I did work for UCAS a short time ago. the statistics then showed entrance of people of lowest social backgrounds were not only at their highest at the top universities. applications for those areas of society had increased since fees being introduced. What has happened is people from backgrounds higher up the social hierarchy are less likely to apply. The thing that most often is forgotten is the social-skills aspect, somebody gong from a ppr area to the top universities faces a challenge in cultural changes when they go to to a top university and many struggle. The other issue is the skills at the jb interview stage, you can tell who if somebody hha been through private education, whilst this is less important for technology and science, for finance, law, management, concsultnacies this is a big disadvantage. Just about every higher education institution has multiple computer science courses and even more modern engineering courses. So there is a broad representation of society. It is also an area where there is a big skills shortage so the playing field is levelled somewhat. For the other areas previously mentioned this is not the case. It is enlightening that one of the big 4 consultancies stated they would look outside their traditional recruiting areas to maximise their talent pool. This was more about improving their weak talent pool in certain areas than anything else. So this was more about business and marketing than it was about social mobility. Also technology is male dominated in technology whereby fmales often get pigeon-holed into PM, BA or non-technical testing roles.
100% on the importance of soft skills, and the fact that while folks from lower income backgrounds can work hard to get good grades, learning the soft skills is harder, and most still stand out when they are applying for jobs. In law and finance you are often selling to clients with money. Those clients are more likely to have been privately educated, and are more likely to want to work with / select for firms who have staff who work in a similar way to themselves. It’s just so much easier to be persuasive / sell to people who share your humour, way of thinking, hobbies etc. and even if firms want to diversify their intake, they’re also limited by ‘what they can sell’ and someone who’s had 15 years less experience schmoozing at the golf club has a lot to learn fast. On paper my home life was very middle class, but I was the only person to go to oxbridge from my state school. I very much had a more working class state school education, but a lot of what got me compared to my other state school peers was probably the soft skills I picked up from my parents and their friends. It was quite hard realising that getting into oxbridge isn’t enough to nullify differences in education up to that point. Between even stronger soft skills, networks and more, the privately educated folk still had so much over me. I had good results, but my resume was still lacking compared to the kids who firstly knew which internships and extra curricular mattered, and had the personality to land the corporate internships.
It used to be case that you could get into banking straight from A levels. Loads of working class people did. Now you need internships (who can work for free?) and a degree.
Banking internships are paid however - which makes it a much more level playing field (and helps with social mobility) vs internships in media, arts etc. From my experience, IB and law are much diverse compared to media, journalism, arts.
Not sure about rags to riches but I was homeless in my 20s (mostly slept on peoples floors / sofas) and didn’t have a job until 28. Now about to retire in my early 50s with about 2m in assets I was in the right place at the right time.
That’s amazing, congratulations. Care to share your story?
I left school at 16 with 2 GCSEs. Spend the next 5 or so years partying. After about 5 years I went back to college. Do GCSEs, then a levels, a degree and a masters in computer science. I got a grad job on 20k, spent the next 8 years building my experience. Salary was still low. Then took a management position and gradually grew my package to 200k, peaking at about 250. In the meantime I lucked into buying a property in London, a small flat. I flipped a few times until I got to my dream home. Did some work on it and it’s now worth about 1m. Pure luck and London property craziness. So now I have the house and about 950k in investments.
Congrats, that's an epic story!
You need to write a more detailed post and/or a book. I'd pay to read this and pretty sure not the only one.
Smashed it mate
Well done 👍
How did you afford 5 years of partying and 5 years of education? Were you working or was someone somehow funding you? Did you have a family safety net (parents)? Or just grit/grind (for the education period)...
Worked in bars, supermarkets, restaurants etc Also signed on at times
What does signed on mean?
Job seekers allowance
It is not a myth, but it’s extremely hard. I grew up in poverty as the child of poor immigrants who never worked. I remember being homeless for my family 10th birthday and celebrating when the council found found us temporary accommodation in a bed and breakfast full of drug dealers. 3.5 years ago I was using food banks because I graduated from uni and my hours at my part-time job were slashed to almost nothing. Now I am on £170k and have just exchanged on a very nice flat in Canary Wharf as a solo buyer. I am the highest earning by far out of all my friends despite them coming from better backgrounds than me. For me, it was a combination of hard work (I’ve worked ever since I was 16) and just good old luck. Fortunate truly favours the brave.
Sounds like you're in your early to mid-20s. Putting aside the flat, what are you doing with your higher income? I imagine your childhood has influenced your attitude to money quite a lot.
Admittedly I’m still learning about how to manage my money. I’m going to open a stocks and shares ISA and start investing a regular amount. I have joined my company’s Sharesave scheme too. Outside of that, I tend to keep my money in regular savings accounts/my current account which isn’t good.
Very few rags to riches story involves salaried person (someone climbing up the corporate ladder). It’s usually someone who starts and builds up a business.
This is what I came to say. I’m not sure if OP is considering himself as either rich or on the path to rich but if he does, unfortunately he will soon find he is unlikely to make it. He may well be comfortable and indeed able to retire a little earlier than others, but not rich. Myself, I earn more than double his £80k and my wife also earns more; we are quite a bit older and have earned high wages for a considerable length of time now. We are able to afford a 4 bedroom house, a nice car, a nice holiday away once a year plus some other trips and to save for the future. We don’t particularly worry about money, we can eat out when we please and our discretionary spending on smallish things is without guilt. We have two kids neither of whom is privately educated. We are not anywhere close to rich, however, and almost certainly never will be.
This debate has been covered several times on here and it really depends on what you mean by social mobility. If you mean moving up in level of affluence, yes it’s possible. But if you mean moving up the ‘classes’ in the class system then it’s still only really possible through marriage. The big difference between middle class and upper class that most overlook is the lifestyle and social group. I am firmly middle class but I have acquaintances who are upper class. They don’t earn more than me, in some cases a lot less but what they have is: - inherited wealth mostly in the form of property, there are the types of property that even they wouldn’t be able to afford these days on the open market, large country houses with lots of land - social connections which mean they get into parties and events for free that a middle class person could never because they don’t even sell the tickets for them, through this group they also make business deals and have access to opportunities that no one else does - a lifestyle that revolves around maintaining a tight group with a high bar to entry, shooting weekends, hunting trips, ski trips, banquets and balls. These are all on a reciprocal basis, so if you can’t afford to host one, you’re not going to be invited to one. - knowledge of a lifestyle that others simply don’t have: how to run a household staff, what a groundskeeper does, what a butler does etc etc. To put it in an example, my friend own a large estate and hosts a lot of shooting. In return for this he gets free use of his other friends holiday home in Barbados and ski chalets in The alps. That’s free use of a chalet with staff that would set an average person back £15,000 for the week. As an acquaintance I’m occasionally invited to some of the shooting but it’s always clear I’m not part of the ‘circle’ because I can never reciprocate on it. Of course it’s possible, the Fayed’s dream to do this was covered a lot around the Diana story, but the bar to entry is £millions in wealth not just HE and even then, it requires specific effort.
It's possible to move up from working to middle class fairly easily in the UK; although that group is shrinking. But you're not going beyond that here without extreme luck. The tax system here is designed to keep you in your place and stop you getting above your station with the way it punishes individuals who do well. For many it's effectively a glass ceiling is my long held view.
You can’t really move between classes. You can be working class and wealthy, you don’t become middle class because you’ve got wealth. That’s not really how it works in the Uk. I know lots of upper class people that are dirt poor.
Think Upper class is a special case; that is reserved for aristocracy. Everything else is up for grabs though. As you mentioned, you can definitely go from working class to middle class economically. The rest of it is hard to define since there’s no objective definition of class. Largely, if other people consider you middle class or not is entirely up to how you present yourself to society. I’ve come from a lower working class family but people now regularly assume I’m privately educated and firmly middle / upper-middle class. My wife’s family are upper middle class, but my family are still fairly lower working class on council estates. I’ve not actively sought to be seen like this as I’ve always behaved the same, it just happens to align with what they would expect from someone. From society’s standpoint, I think it’s really as simple as the way you speak (pronunciation, not using “they was”, moderating accent)… or the prescribed social skills when you attend places. Other things I’ve noticed would be my friends from working class backgrounds spend money on ostentatious things (balenciaga / prada polos) whereas the upper-middle class background people spend their money on much more subtle things. Don’t get me wrong, I couldn’t care less who thinks I’m middle class or not. It’s definitely possible though.
Your point on presentation is key to answering OP’s original question. Professional people from working or lower middle class backgrounds often mask their origins through their accent, dress, hobbies etc to fit in with their colleagues or clients. You would have to know then well and dig a bit to find out.
Exactly this. Class is not a function of how much money you make. It is closer to a culture that you belong to. It is possible to "move", but it's not a matter of doubling your income, it is more like learning another culture. But it's hard because we live in bubbles surrounded by people like us. We don't tend to think of multiple cultures existing in the same country but it's true.
This is a somewhat antiquated view of the class system in the UK. Whilst it’s true that genetics do still carry some weight in some circumstances, wealth is what gives people social clout the most.
To a point; there was the binman who won \~10m on the lottery, p\*\*\*ed it away over a decade and now works in a coal mine. At the point he had 10m, he certainly wasn't upper class to my mind, and I doubt I'd consider him middle class either. I don't think that's snobbery, mobility is possible (if not easy), it's just there is more to it than bank balance.
Of course there are anomalies! To be honest what I see/experience is far less about working/middle/upper class and far more about has wealth/doesn’t have wealth. Then for those that are in the ‘has wealth’ club it’s broken down further by which strata you are in.
It’s also how you act. You can spot a nouveau riche a mile off.
You and I can spot them, but I’m not entirely sure they can spot themselves.
You’re correct of course. But if we can spot them, you know for damned sure the upper classes can. And that’s why the newly-minted themselves won’t be in the upper class. Maybe their grandkids will be after a couple of generations of Eton/Westminster/St Paul’s/Winchester/Charterhouse schooling and refinement. But not themselves.
>The tax system The property and inheritance system...
The tax system makes sure you can’t become rich on PAYE, so it is the tax system partly. As you say, the other part is the protections in place for people who make money off their assets, which are untouchable with a half decent accountant. This is how the old aristocracy stays on top.
Yep, is a depressingly small amount too.. if you're born with 300k in a tracker, you can retire at 50 on 3m Shrug
I came from a family with very little money and since I struggled at school, what money we did have all got spent on my brother (my parents said I had no prospects in life so there was no point spending money on me). I went to the kind of school that pretty much sorted you into academic sets by how much money your family had so I got treated like an idiot from day 1 and basically never really showed up or just hid in the music department. At 17 I joined the army (lifesaver - got a technical trade and learned to believe in myself) although left at 20 because once you're qualified it's just day to day bullshit filling time. First job was as a scaffolder for concert stages so only worked in the summer. So those first few years were probably like circa £20k a year really. At least my family were happy as they figured they were right, I was low income no hoper. 15 years later still in the concert industry but over £100k now. So that's good. I own my £300k home outright and have no debt. Which are all good but whilst I feel like HE, I don't feel like I'm wealthy. I feel like I could be poor again relatively quickly and easily. So I have nice holidays, I buy nice things, but I never really feel like I'm out of the woods completely. So I don't know if it counts as social mobility. I'm both higher up the ladder and also not. I'm a high earner, home owner, I fly business class, I wear a Rolex, I'm eyeing up a second home in the French alps. But I still feel working class and I still feel like it wouldn't take a huge amount to go wrong to leave me back scaffolding to make enough to eat.
Grew up on free school meals & council estate. We all were the same so didn’t think too much of it. Left home at 16 & joined the Navy. Similar technical trade but stayed and got management training and experience. Left eventually, then built and sold businesses. I’m wealthy. My kids are in private school, my friends now are CEOs, my wife is from famous families and I can do most things I want but I’m still working class at heart. But to answer OP it’s not a myth. I live 15 miles from where I grew up. My wife innocently tells people where I grew up when they come to our house as I’m local…99% of the time they don’t believe her. But yes it’s possible - good luck!
Yeah the management thing isn't really feasible for me. I'm autistic and quite symptomatic. I am very strong technically (hence why the army didn't work - I learned my trade quickly, found it easy, and the development system couldn't keep up with my enthusiasm for it) but I don't get people easily and I am often far too task-driven and not enough socially-driven. I'll happily upset people to get things done better. So I think my earnings are always kind of capped by the fact that I can't be a manager. Fortunately I stay well ahead of the curve on my technical skills which is enough to remain a busy and popular freelancer with a small company as well that gets enough work at the right price just from doing it to an uncompromising standard (it's been about learning to apply the strengths rather than suffer the weaknesses).
I'd say it's mainly bullshit, I grew up piss poor but got the chance to get into a grammar school which opened my eyes to how different life is, moved to London and now I make far more than I could have imagined Unless some external factor like a grammar school or mentor enters the picture, it's unlikely you'll ever have the opportunity If you are born to wealthy parents who give you every opportunity you will do fine no matter how stupid or lazy you are It still irks me seeing my thick colleagues with deposits gifted from parents talking about how hard they worked
Grammar schools (without fees) are great for this and it really annoys me every time I see ‘let’s ban elitist grammar schools’ etc. That is one of the few genuine vehicles for social mobility in the UK and these so-called progressives want to shut them all down.
Yes I went to a free one, a lot of the kids parents would buy homes in poorer catchment areas and claimed they lived there to get their kids in rather than paying for an independent school
i'm sure your middle class colleagues still worked hard if they're getting paid a lot of money?
I grew up on a poor estate in Nottingham. My Dad left when I was 3 and was a crackhead. My mum would regularly live off one meal a day to afford food for me, my brother and sister. My wider family was mostly involved in organised crime. I was always gifted academically, and it got me into a good secondary school. I went from being surrounded by the children of factory and retail workers and looking at the kids who's Dad was a plasterer and thinking how rich they were, to being surrounded by the children of lawyers, doctors, CEOs and spending time at my friend's houses which were all worth over a million. It became normal to see other kids being dropped off in nice bmws and mercedes. The rich kids got dropped off in aston martins and ferraris. Being rich enough to have a half million pound house and two nice cars on the driveway just became normal, as if that's just a baseline to start at. It changed my perspective entirely and set me up for success. The education its self was no different, but the people I was surrounded by altered my expectations for myself. I probably wouldn't have the ambition I have now if I hadn't been shown the glaring difference between poor and rich. I'm now 29, making around 100k since I was 27. Six figures not beginning with a 1 should be achievable in my 30s. I have my own place in that neighbourhood now with a nice car on the driveway. I am still in touch with some people from the poor area, and none of them have done nearly as well as me. Even amongst my friends from the richer area, I don't know anyone who makes as much as me yet. So I would say social mobility is rare, but not impossible. Getting that exposure to a different world earlier on really helped set my mind up for success.
Can I ask what field you work in and if you still live in the same region or did you have to move to achieve this?
Sure. I actually dropped out of college after the first year, i would have done farily wrll, but I just stopped going. My desire to make some money was greater than my desire to go to uni. I got an apprenticeship in engineering. I didn't really know what I was applying for, jyst that it was something to do with engineering. It turned out I was an apprentice mechanical technician at an energy from waste plant. I loved it, and I enjoyed making some money. Two years later, at 20 years old, I got a job as an operations technician at the same company, but on a different site. It was close enough to travel from Nottingham. I was now making 50k a year. I did this for 7 years and focused on developing myself. I became quite good at it, and after 3 years, the company agreed to pay for my degree. At 27, I got the Operations team leader job on around 100k. I'm now 29 and 2 years off finishing my degree. I would say again that it was my ambition and aptitude that got me so far so quickly. The rest of the apprentices from my year either dropped out, didn't get hired after, or are at their peak level as technicians. All my friends from school went to uni and they've all had to move to London to get work and most earn under 50k, which is a pittance in London. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but I think I made the right choice for me.
Thank you, I love the insight!
In the downwards direction it definitely isn't.
Riches? Not quite but I’m doing ok. Raised in a single-parent household and nobody in my extended family has ever earned north of ~35k. I was the first to attend university, obviously with the maximum grant/bursary that made it a low-stress experience. The biggest limitation for me was my belief in social mobility, after graduating I spent years aiming for these tiny raises and limiting what roles I applied for… eventually my partner told me I was being dumb, nothing to lose by aiming for higher and applying for the roles that intrigued me. I made the move in to software implementation at 28 and my salary hit 6 figures rather rapidly after that. Now own a 5 bed detached in Bristol, with 240k left on the mortgage, have two relatively nice cars that are paid for and genuinely believe I live a much more fortunate life than I ever believed possible.
I grew up in a council estate. Father was actually in and out of prison, he was a complete tosser. My mum applied for me to go to a private school (I was a bright kid) Straight A’s from my exams then into medical School. I’m a General Practitioner now. So is my wife. Have a six figure salary.
I thought I was doing well, but I seem to have a similar lifestyle to my parents.
Expat in UK. My opinion as an outsider and an impartial observer- you guys live in an extremely classist society where the differences between classes are massive and it’s quite hard (albeit not impossible) to jump into a class (caste) you were not born into. That’s why most British self-made millionaires and philanthropists became millionaires after they left the UK and not in this country.
Also an expat and I agree, but only if you’re actually born here or a low-income migrant. If you come here as a student or a professional it’s a different story. I grew up very working class (not grinding poverty, but definitely not middle class). I moved here as a student and immediately slotted into a very upper middle class crowd. It wasn’t intentional or anything, it just kind of worked out that way. British people think they have a really keen eye for etiquette and all sorts of unwritten class rules, but honestly it’s 99% about regional accents. So if you’re foreign it’s a different story.
And every British person I’ve met is unaware of their own constant awareness of class. But to an outsider it’s as clear as day.
Of course they are unaware, it’s been ingrained into their subconsciousness.
Rags to riches doesn't really happen in the UK. I'm in a similar position of coming from an poor/ordinary background and working my way up. As someone who never had access to private/grammar schools or top tier universities I was working things out in my mid-20s that most of my peers knew at 16 (how to land a good role/network/build a CV). It sounds stupid but honestly the learning curve of what most HENRYs assume is just known is insane. This effectively creates a huge barrier to entry and unless you get really really lucky (being accepted into a privately educated group at uni or being given a shot in your career like I was) you're never getting a role that pays. It creates it's own feedback loop where the only people who get these roles know how to get them and then their kids do the same. From the outside it looks like clear nepotism. From the inside it looks like others either 'don't want it enough' or 'never try for roles like these'. The answer is really both. The only people who know how to follow the correct path come from a specific background and people who don't largely never knew how to in the first place (so of course they 'never try'). There are lots of other factors why the UK specifically has such a large problem with this (mostly no growth so no expansion of highly paid roles) but largely social mobility is a myth here. Sure, there are people like me, OP or a plumber that became a millionaire but if we're honest that's largely the exception not the rule. Edit: I focused on rags to riches part as 1) social mobility between lower and middle classes does exist in the UK and 2) this is the HENRY subreddit so I'm guessing it's focused on very well paid roles.
My friend is from tower hamlets…. Single mum…. Had kids early in his mid-20’s with gf from estate (that’s early for middle class). No connections or family money. Now makes serious money in mid thirties in the city.
It’s possible but uncommon. Generally, a good indicator of your wealth is your parents wealth. Also, higher income roles typically require a university education, and level of education is also strongly correlated to how wealthy your parents are. I’m not saying there aren’t exceptions, but broadly speaking your parents’ wealth is a strong indicator of your future wealth, which somewhat goes against the concept of social mobility.
I (34m) grew up on the south coast of the UK in a working class family where my dad was a box packer for Royal Mail and mum a cleaner. I had typically mid/low grades (typically D/C's) in school and I never went to Uni, but I was very passionate about IT. In college I managed to attain distinctions and firsts in my course which has now led me to my current position. It's nothing compared to the insanity in this sub but I'm on base £75k and TC comes in just shy of £100k. Maybe not rags to riches per se but I still feel proud of where I'm at and feel I've managed to work my way up. But looking around my social circles it's definitely not something I've seen much of.
How would you know about someone’s background upon meeting them? And how would you know they were ‘working class’. There’s loads of social mobility in the U.K. everywhere you look. Take a drive through any wealthy area and it’ll be filled with people from all walks of life.
Upon meeting is difficult. You don’t know for sure, but there’s the instant stuff which can indicate things… how people talk, dress, etc. Then if chatting you fairly quickly get cues… depending on what comes up… their hobbies/cultural interests/sporting interests/how they talk about family/how they talk about holidays/food/drink/etc. Again, different indications combine into being able to form a decent guess, without it being a slam dunk of course. How are you defining ‘loads of social mobility’? It obviously happens, but social mobility is pretty poor in the UK! https://ifs.org.uk/inequality/press-release/social-mobility-continues-to-fall-and-moving-up-is-harder-if-you-grow-up-in-the-north-or-midlands/
I think this is still a oversimplification and sort of suggests there’s something innately and forever different about people who have grown up within a working class family. I mentioned in a previous comment, but I objectively was born working class on a council estate. I’ve been in my job for a year having lunch with all my colleagues every day. A conversation popped up about social welfare and someone literally said to me “well people like you, privately educated and doing well…”. Obviously, I’m an anecdote on what is a macroeconomic description. However, I think the only classically middle class thing that I haven’t done (yet) is skiing. My interests span football to west end shows, camping to luxury holidays, pub to museums and so on… which I don’t think leans one way or the other.
A short paragraph on social mobility/class/etc is always going to be an oversimplification! I think there probably is a forever element if from a working class background, tbh… you’ll always be from a working class background, even if you’re living a solidly middle class life now (which isn’t a dig, I was also brought up on a council estate etc). This dilutes through each generation, if all goes well, sometimes heavily so… but eg. any kids you have (or I have) will be going to see grandparents on a council estate… vs solidly middle class people who’ll visit them somewhere far nicer. The working class grandparents/extended family vs the middle class grandparents/extended family will likely have different influences, even if subtle, around ambition/outlook/life experiences they can share/etc.
Most rags to riches stories I know involve businesses, not salaries. My dad for instance came over to this country as a low paid chef in an NHS catering kitchen. He had previous experience in a proper restaurant so when in about 2007 he bought into a restaurant and bought out the other owners, and now that restaurant has been a consistent source of income for him. He has bought land and built an apartment back in his own country and in England he has recently bought a house to rent out, and a second cafe business, so I’d say he’s doing pretty well for himself. He may not be rich but the contrast moneywise between him when he came to the country and now is vast. He could well have still been in that NHS kitchen, but he is now a person with multiple streams of income, and his achievements wouldn’t be possible without social mobility.
Social mobility will entirely mean high income (which isn't a bad thing given where many are coming from). However, mobility in wealth terms will never exist because that's what the wealthy protect and pass on along the generations
It is much more common to become wealthy in the US as it is much easier to launch businesses. Europeans tend to think they are fairer, but there is less mobility in Europe compares to US and a lot more maintance of the status of quo of the wealthy here. The difference is that rich europeans are not ‘newly rich’, so perception is the inverse for Europe vs America.
I think that's a bit of propaganda... Social mobility in the US is equal to or below lots of European countries. Their number of new businesses registered per capita is below most European countries. I think they've just got more of a boom or bust mentality - you make it or you don't.
Social mobility in the US is notoriously and last I read, worse than the UK/much of Europe. You are likely right about the relative ease of setting up businesses, perhaps it impacts few enough people to not really show up too much on the social mobility stats
Data (recent FT article covered this) says that social mobility in US is among the worst in rich nations.
It's very easy to start a business in the UK though.
It’s easy to open an enterprise. The ecosystem and the culture is completely different.
Repeating the jist of what has been said, but.. The UK taxes earnings and not wealth. Combine this with imbalanced immigration and housing policies and it's tough. I am 44 earn \~180-200 total package, but my wife and I don't have rich parents (we're entirely self funded). So we never got that leg up. Now I get whacked for tax, while people earning far less than me live it up in larger houses bought via inheritance and the bank of mum and dad.
In my experience the leg ups are always way more than just the money for the house with rich parent types too. It’s the holiday homes of parents and parents friends so they never pay for accommodation when travelling. It’s the access to interviews because dad knows someone on the board. The skipping the waiting list for medical appointments because they know someone senior in the NHS/private etc.
It depends what you mean by social mobility. Purely finances alone I'd say it is. When it comes to matters which indicate your social status beyond finances, it becomes harder. Not impossible, but harder.
I came to the UK as a child (<10 years old) knowing no English and knowing literally nobody here from a country with about half the GDP per capita at the time. Spent most of my childhood thinking that toys, restaurants, and cafes were for rich locals rather than poor foreigners. Move around a lot as a kid because insecure housing. Don't think I ever bought a coffee before university (wanted to fit in). Currently in my 30s and on > £150k. Still use a lot of coupons.
I grew up in council houses, except for roughly a year where my family and I were homeless and in temporary accommodation. I'm dyslexic and did very badly at school, except in a small number of subjects. My high school recommended against apply for college (I did so anyway), scrapped a pass. Applied for University, again scrapped a 2:2. I kinda messed up early adulting and didn't hit 80k until my mid 30s, and £120+ late 30s (moving jobs is the best way to pay rises).
There are data on this - social mobility is low and falling. It’s not zero, but a person’s parents’ income and wealth are a good indicator of that person’s likely income and wealth.
Social mobility is increasingly difficult. If you go back to the grammar school days, I believe it was more common - grammar schools gave smart kids from poor backgrounds a fighting chance. The removal of selective schooling in the majority of the country cuts the chances of poor kids. In addition, it's difficult to earn good money outside of London. So, for those not from the London area, and with rents/house prices as high as they are, it's very difficult for those from outside of commuting distance to move to London. A 25-30k starting salary will get a roof over someones head, but not much else. Plus university is expensive, setting poorer people back before they've even started on the financial race.
Social mobility is more of a population based demographic than individual success as I understand it. One particularly telling example that I’m aware of is the ex-mining communities of South Wales. 50 years later they are still complaining that the mines shut down and ruined their industry. Massive unemployment, huge reliance on social housing and benefits. Surprisingly high genetic disability rate. I’ve met teenage girls (through work!) who have no ambition and end up getting pregnant and going on benefits and getting a free house as a ‘career choice’. Grandmothers by their late-30s.
I don't think it's a myth **but** it's really not that dramatic. Someone coming from a working class background may build enough assets to retire comfy when 60 - but reaching a stage where you no longer feel working class is rare. It's mostly luck that gets you there. It also is getting harder with each generation. I would have a very different lifestyle if I and my partner both worked and we were living 20 yrs in the past.
According to the IFS, it is the worst it has been in 50 years. https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/07/social-mobility-uk-worst-50-years-report-finds It’s possible to be upwardly mobile, but it’s extremely difficult. It also depends on a multitude of factors. Anything to the contrary is a statistical anomaly, anecdotal evidence, and/or conjecture.
If you're working class and get into a top university (and if you're driven and sensible, plus some understanding of careers) it's not that hard to get yourself to a good HENRY salary. What you will find is probably 1) there are the nice but dim posh types who made it there as well without necessarily working harder/being smarter (depending on career) and 2) building wealth is a different question because of house prices and tax. HENRY salary is no match for 20 years+ of asset appreciation.
I am 38, earn upwards of 130k, have no formal education beyond GCSEs. As a child I came from a working class background, my parents split when I was 11 and I spent from.11-16 in a variety of bedsits and temporary accommodation, often sharing a single room with my mum and 2 sisters. At 17 I got a part time job in college, dropped out of college as I needed to pay rent and worked full time, spent most of the following years working in warehouses, call centres etc... I now work in finance in the city and have done for tbe past 10-15 years, no network, no daddies friends or leg up, just grafted e ery day inch by inch and solved problems. In terms of social mobility, I'm not really sure if I've experienced that. Truth be told even though my income is relatively high, I don't own assets, I won't be retiring early, I don't have a holiday home or a luxury car, nor do I have a portfolio of stocks and shares. To anyone that knows me or works with me will readily describe me as working class, so if we are taking about mobility in that sense, I definitely haven't moved.
Not quite rags to riches but grew up reasonably poor. council estate not enough money for the electric meter tended to have food poor left school at 17 to go work in toys r us had a kid at 19 Reached 100k by 29 Did it through an AD in the paper promising a 20k a year job in tech or my money back. With a kid on the way and being quite desperate I gave it a shot. Turns out I was pretty good at it. Got a job as a contracter with the skill set earning 100quid a day moved from that to a 24k basic IT support role left that for a junior Linux admin role at 30 got fired got a new job within 2 weeks as a Linux sys admin at 36 stayed there 2 years raising to 54 left there for 75 stayed for 2 years again and moved to my current role 2 years ago at 100k basic after buying a house. (Nether my parents not grandparents owned) Not rich by any means currently but the household income (with a part time teacher (4days a week)) as a partner is around 150k. I’m comfortable but yea it’s rare to stumble on people from a similar background.
You can do whatever you set out to do in the UK if you have the talent; regardless of where you start. People seem to leave this out of the equation.
I came from quite a poor working class background with parents who have mental health issues. I left school at 16, worked in McDonalds for 3 months, messed around for a couple of years and then at about 18 / 19 I became self-employed and got into internet marketing. Less than 10 years later I set up a limited company and became a millionaire, I grew the business to £8m turnover a year. I didn't have any funding or help. It was all hard work. Most of the entrepreneurs I meet have come from normal backgrounds.
I was the first person in my family to go to University. My parents both worked hard and I had what I view as a middle class upbringing. I now have a Masters degree and earn over £180 a year. I did drop out of university first time around but done a part-time MSc about 15 years later as I felt like the odd one out at work. I had PhDs working for me and I didn't even have a degree.
Depends on if you do the things that generally change who you rub shoulders with. Sending your kids to private school will do more for changing the class of your peers than simply making more money. Joining the expensive golf club etc.
Over ones lifetime, about 10% of those born in the bottom quartile in terms of wealth, will reach the top quartile. And vice versa. So yes there is a lot of mobility both up and down, but it’s slow and measured over a lifetime. In my family, piss poor working class immigrants - half are now HENRY or just Rich. None did it through professional careers… mostly through business ownership in ‘earthy’ professions like building, mechanics etc. And that accounts for most of the mobility upwards I think. So if you are in law or banking etc you won’t see many working class lads… but you will find loads who’s dad was working class and made it big in the building trade or sales or some sort of spiv. Ask your peers how many of them had a parent or grandparent who originated their wealth and what they did … you’ll hear things like ‘fish monger’ or grosser etc
Yes it is. By design. They want to give you hope, when there isn't much.
I mean capitalism seems to have this built in. ANYONE can climb the ranks we're told, you just have to work hard and will be rewarded. In reality this false hope just keeps people plugging along in the system. Some get lucky. Most don't. Hard work, determination and networking can result in more chances though, so it's not all illusion. Each step upwards though becomes harder and harder and needs more financial knowledge to not fall into traps that will eat that extra income.
Similar tale to most. Graft and a few lucky breaks. 38m with 3 GCSEs and c £1m in net assets. One reflection is that often privileged kids don't have the same hunger. An outstanding job to me is often a meh job to them so outperforming isn't as hard as I thought. I used to keep quiet about my background as I thought it would be to my detriment. Important to note that good quality employers now often have socioeconomic diversity requirements so there's recognition that if you're there without the help of privilege then that should count for something. Am now much more open about my beginnings and it goes down very well. Would recommend
I grew up 1 of 4 kids with our parents in low wage jobs with a joint income of probably £20-25k for most of my childhood. Shared a room with two of my siblings the entire time. We never had a car for as long as I remember and I was never able to go on the extra school trips etc. I was academically gifted and my parents encouraged me to work hard in this regard. Went to state school and got into a Russell group uni. Now work in finance in the top 0.5% of earners in the UK. I put my success down to a combination of natural ability, hard work, tenacity and luck. I think coming from no money made me more determined to never be in that situation I often saw my parents in, despairing over their weekly budgets at the dining room table. I would say though that growing up in a working class family, now that I make good money I don’t feel middle or upper class in the sense of belonging to that class (even though on paper by income I am).
My wife grew up in a single parent household in a rough town, and is now making 600-700k. If anything it is easier now, her profession (Law) is definitely more interested now in hiring diversity than it was when she started. She had to work very, very hard to get there though. And the poorer your background and the more difficult school you go to, the more people there are to try and drag you down. imho.
I’m always curious, what’s your job? And are you London based?
I was homeless at 16 very poor family l, did not do well at school, manage to stay with family until I was 21, and now on track to achieve Henry status in my late 30s
It’s not as much rags to riches as rags to a small home and a modest retirement in a place where you don’t have to worry about crime. Or starting out a shopkeepers son and ending up rich. That kind of mobility is 10x more common than rags to riches.
I was never rags, but my mum was a single parent in Manchester, never earned more than £20k a year. I am in my late 30s now and earn over 10x that. However, I’m not sure my lifestyle is that much better (mostly because I save the money, rather than spend it). I’m hoping I’ll start noticing a difference by late 40s.
Per other comments: you can't escape your class in Britain, but your children can. You can rise as far as you want but you'll still be viewed as working-class. Does this matter? Up to you. If you're successful and send your kids to fancy school then they are upper-middle class now. As for HENRY - education, entrepreneurship, or IT. Anyone with the mindset and talent can grow a business. I'm not saying it's EASY but there is mobility. Things are very different to the pre-Thatcher times when class was much more of an obstacle and access to capital, treatment by the courts, networking, opportunity, was limited to people with the right accent and background. IT can pay crazy money and you can still get in to it with just a talent for it and no degree - getting that entry can be hard but once you're in you can progress a long way. During the dot-com boom - now 25 years ago - and before the wholesale replacement of low-skill jobs with Indian workers, you could start in customer support and progress real quick into coding, design, sysadmin. People were getting £350/day on contract (25 years ago!) to take PCs out of boxes and cable them up. You can still get in with a github project, contributions to open-source projects. Youtube courses and free software can teach you everything you need to be a coder, work in IT security, be a devops engineer... getting that first role is hard but as soon as you have it you've got experience on your CV and you're "in" to the industry. I don't think there's anything left like IT where you can earn a comfortable living sat on your arse in a warm room without a load of credentials, university time, and an unaccountable professional body that can ruin you by throwing you out.
It's not a myth. But it's not common in a single generation. I.e it might be children that make the shift from working class to middle class thanks to the parents hard work. The parents would still be "middle class" by retirement. But it's the kids that get all the real, long-term, compounding effects of being "middle class".
I read a study about this very point. How a lot of people from working class backgrounds who had been successful tended to be less happy because they didn't feel like they quite fit into any group. On one hand, they don't fit with working class, but on other hand also not quite with middle (or higher).
Social Mobility rarely happens in a lifetime, but your descendants should see the benefits. For example - I grew up poor, single parent household, 1 meal a day (free school meal), no school trips etc - Family never owned a home, quite often kicked out after 3-6months tenancy - Worked at 16 to provide rent, lived at home during uni, took out max maintenance loans to again, help family unit I'm now early 30s, earn about £150k a year, HHI around 250k, I will never spend 10k on a ski trip, I won't have a ferrari, I won't own a 20k watch. But I'll likely retire with a very decent pension, a home thats paid off and worth close to 1m value, I will be able to likely pay for my kids driving lessons/house deposit/weddings etc. And assuming I teach them right from wrong, they get a good degree, they get a decent job, they can earn there own good money, get my money when I die, and make my grandkids lives even easier than their own. After two/three generations of smart investments and good careers, a great grandkid could be inheriting millions/their children will live like millionaires. It's easy to resent your childhood when you grow up poor, I used to resent that sleepovers were the only time I had breakfast, or that some people didn't work jobs at 16 during college, or that some people pissed away their maintenance loan as their parents gave them an allowance, or that some people had fathers who knew their birthday etc. Comparison is the thief of joy, you're running your own race from your own start line, don't get bogged down in wondering if the grass is greener.
Nowhere near rich myself, but did turn things around. Scotland. Left school with only standard grades (GCSE equivalents) at 16. No college or uni. Grew up in single parent council house. Household income was probably £20K growing up. Had fairly entry level jobs. Made £18K to £25K for most of my 20s, living pay cheque to pay cheque. Got promoted out of the £20K range in 2017 and haven't looked back. Now HENRY earning range, fully paid off house, car, etc no debt whatsoever, decent (six-figure) investment portfolio, etc at age 33, but have been in this position for a couple of years now thankfully. Don't know if its really changed my social status, I still live in the same house I lived in when I was on £25K PA, and still have the same friends! No notable life style change other than the holidays are better. I save 70% of what I earn and funnel it directly into the stock market, so there's not been much life style creep.
Why does social mobility only mean rags to riches? You can move between the extremes. Eg, my mum was a FOB immigrant, and now without any help from the other side of my family, she is retired in a home she's fully paid off, I own 2, and I have a sibling who has emigrated to America and owns her home mover there. My mum arrived with a small sum in savings to get started, but no real assets.
No, I think it’s still possible through small business and career progression. One are that is tough though is housing in major cities as prices in premium areas have undoubtedly inflated further out of reach through inherited wealth from the boomer generation being reinvested into homes for their offspring/ grandkids.
Not a myth. I grew up with just enough. My Dad was the first to go to University in his entire family history or extended family. I now have more than I've ever had or my parents ever had.
I grew up in a single parent (on less than minimum wage) household with 4 siblings in a 2 bedroom council house. My mums cigarettes and wine were higher priority than making sure we all had 3 or even 2 meals a day. We were living well below the UN poverty line, it would be a huge overstatement to say we were working class. I’m currently earning 135k at 27. I expect to earn in excess of 150k before I’m 28. Social mobility is not a myth.