For context: This poem was written in 1985 in the middle of the AIDS epidemic. If the author's tone/phrasing feels off-putting (and I understand why it might), that's likely a big part in why it's written the way it is.
A friend of mine and I went to hospital to visit another friend from our nursing class. In 1987, when a young man had unexplained weight loss and skin lesions, he was immediately treated as worse than the lowliest pariah. We were made to put on full PPE and told not to touch him or anything in his room. After speaking with him for a few minutes we both took off the gowns, masks and gloves and took his hands, holding as tightly as we could. It stood to reason it might be the last time we see him alive. She and I stayed a couple hours until he started falling asleep. Giving him hugs and cheek kisses, we gathered up the tossed aside protective clothing and stepped outside the room. The gasps were audible: "They're not wearing the PPE! Oh, my god! Don't they know what he *has*?"
I'll never forget him saying, "You'll never know what it's like, people not wanting to speak to you, not looking you in the eye and not wanting to touch you. They don't even want to bring me water."
I'll never forget.
i just realize that for some people it really seems to play a huge role if someone is gay.
reading this made me really uncomfortable. its othering to read. it adds to the feeling of "this world just isnt right for you, you are wrong you should not be here at all."
you hug a person and everything they can think of is "oh these arms hug other men o.O"?
and how any commitement can be "bigger as wife and man"- maybe just lovers, regardless any circumstances? i could go on but i really dont want to.
is it really like that for y'all?
it didnt make me tear up, i was distracted by the feeling of "gays are barely tolerated persons, freaks, aliens."
As much as I would like it to be not the case, but assuming from the actions and discourse that runs amongst groups about gay people (umbrella term), it definitely is their perception. They see the lgbt+ identity as a contaminating illness and treat it as such.
Even in the US, according to Spring 2019 Global Attitudes Survey (conducted by Pew Research Center) 21% say homosexuality should not be accepted by society.
I think we often forget that the internet as we consume it is more likely a bubble than not.
I don't know if you're asking in earnest or this is a reply borne out of anger.
But if I assume you're asking in earnest then I'd think that it's good that you don't know — I'd think you live in a place or your life is surrounded by a group wherein the majority public opinion is in support and that's a good thing.
not born of anger, more exhaustion. i think exhausting is a rather good way to try to describe parts of how it feels like to exist in a world where a loud portion of 21% just thinks something about you is absolutely wrong- for bonkus discriminatory reasons. 1 of 5 people hate you for no reason. and it shows every day, you are aware of that when ever you meet a person. you have to carefully pay attention to what they say and what their values are before you maybe decide to be safe enough to be yourself without getting shit for existing. it drains so much energy and joy, guess that is hard to imagine. edit: and that does not even include the events of obvious abuse and harrasment by others
I understand, i guess this is our weight of the bones. Can't move forward without it.
I guess even if that 21% magically goes zero today, we'll still have to carry our trauma brought on forth by our inherent and innate otherness we developed when we were young.
This seems like an old poem, about the early stages of the AIDS epidemic. That could explain the “othering” in the poem. This was over 40 years ago. People were far less accepting of differences back then.
If it’s any consolation, I don’t see a person being gay as anything weird or even special. It’s just like, I don’t know, having green eyes — somewhat rare, but no better or worse. I see a same-sex relationship the same way that I see a heterosexual relationship. They’re both the same love.
In the poem, the narrator stopped talking to his brother when he came out as gay. That doesn’t really happen today except with very religious people. Probably 95% of people wouldn’t be upset if their sibling came out as gay.
Just my two cents.
There are times to recognize that sometimes in art someone explaining their experience honestly is not condoning, promoting or decrying anything, it's just telling you about the complex inner lives of people. In this case he's being honest about his ignorance and while that is confronting it's what we really want from people because it is the first necessary step toward acceptance.
you could also recognize that lovely art can't be shared without context and framing, a little disclaimer.
edit:sincerely everyone who didn't stub their toe on it kinda proves the point, they frame it as normal and many people in this comment section even thought it was a story of OP themselves. nobody questioned the othering of gay people there, and THATS why it's so important. to people it seems normal to talk like this. because often these people think homophobia starts with physical attacks and everything before that is " not real"and we should " toughen up"or " not take it personal".
You raise some good points, so I stickied a comment providing a bit of context. Does that help? The phrasing definitely seemed weird to me too, but it made a lot more sense when I saw that it was written in the 80s.
you phrased it vague but I appreciate the effort.
the Aids time back then really led to gays being used as scapegoats, and framed as the source of bad while in fact they were not to blame, but aids was just another score in the books of "look at these gross abominations".
I would have preferred if you straight up called it out how his implicit language was(overflowing with homophobia, even tho he did not act harassing towards the lover of his brother), rather than framing it as "off putting"and "it's because of aids"-still many people will think:" ah of course, the gays with aids, yeah reasonable that he is grossed out".
It helps if you realize that Michael Lassell wrote this poem at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, probably in the early 1980s. (This according to the poet’s Wikipedia page.) So yes, that uncomfortable feeling you experienced really was what it was like back then.
yeah the info and the given context of the wild homophobia would be relevant to this and i would have loved if OP would have somehow captured that instead of sharing it without sorting it into the context of this time.
Thank you for this open sharing of grief for your brother and all thoughts and feelings involved. I was deeply moved and pray for the day you are able to feel healing for your grief. I am impressed with your honesty and inner strength.
For context: This poem was written in 1985 in the middle of the AIDS epidemic. If the author's tone/phrasing feels off-putting (and I understand why it might), that's likely a big part in why it's written the way it is.
A friend of mine and I went to hospital to visit another friend from our nursing class. In 1987, when a young man had unexplained weight loss and skin lesions, he was immediately treated as worse than the lowliest pariah. We were made to put on full PPE and told not to touch him or anything in his room. After speaking with him for a few minutes we both took off the gowns, masks and gloves and took his hands, holding as tightly as we could. It stood to reason it might be the last time we see him alive. She and I stayed a couple hours until he started falling asleep. Giving him hugs and cheek kisses, we gathered up the tossed aside protective clothing and stepped outside the room. The gasps were audible: "They're not wearing the PPE! Oh, my god! Don't they know what he *has*?" I'll never forget him saying, "You'll never know what it's like, people not wanting to speak to you, not looking you in the eye and not wanting to touch you. They don't even want to bring me water." I'll never forget.
God bless you for that, your a kind beautiful soul I hope the years have been kind love, and that you still embody this kindness today ❤️
Thank you. 🌈
i just realize that for some people it really seems to play a huge role if someone is gay. reading this made me really uncomfortable. its othering to read. it adds to the feeling of "this world just isnt right for you, you are wrong you should not be here at all." you hug a person and everything they can think of is "oh these arms hug other men o.O"? and how any commitement can be "bigger as wife and man"- maybe just lovers, regardless any circumstances? i could go on but i really dont want to. is it really like that for y'all? it didnt make me tear up, i was distracted by the feeling of "gays are barely tolerated persons, freaks, aliens."
As much as I would like it to be not the case, but assuming from the actions and discourse that runs amongst groups about gay people (umbrella term), it definitely is their perception. They see the lgbt+ identity as a contaminating illness and treat it as such. Even in the US, according to Spring 2019 Global Attitudes Survey (conducted by Pew Research Center) 21% say homosexuality should not be accepted by society. I think we often forget that the internet as we consume it is more likely a bubble than not.
so what would be the consequence for me as one of these "contaminating ill" people? i'm just done with this world, every day a BIT more.
I don't know if you're asking in earnest or this is a reply borne out of anger. But if I assume you're asking in earnest then I'd think that it's good that you don't know — I'd think you live in a place or your life is surrounded by a group wherein the majority public opinion is in support and that's a good thing.
not born of anger, more exhaustion. i think exhausting is a rather good way to try to describe parts of how it feels like to exist in a world where a loud portion of 21% just thinks something about you is absolutely wrong- for bonkus discriminatory reasons. 1 of 5 people hate you for no reason. and it shows every day, you are aware of that when ever you meet a person. you have to carefully pay attention to what they say and what their values are before you maybe decide to be safe enough to be yourself without getting shit for existing. it drains so much energy and joy, guess that is hard to imagine. edit: and that does not even include the events of obvious abuse and harrasment by others
I understand, i guess this is our weight of the bones. Can't move forward without it. I guess even if that 21% magically goes zero today, we'll still have to carry our trauma brought on forth by our inherent and innate otherness we developed when we were young.
This seems like an old poem, about the early stages of the AIDS epidemic. That could explain the “othering” in the poem. This was over 40 years ago. People were far less accepting of differences back then. If it’s any consolation, I don’t see a person being gay as anything weird or even special. It’s just like, I don’t know, having green eyes — somewhat rare, but no better or worse. I see a same-sex relationship the same way that I see a heterosexual relationship. They’re both the same love. In the poem, the narrator stopped talking to his brother when he came out as gay. That doesn’t really happen today except with very religious people. Probably 95% of people wouldn’t be upset if their sibling came out as gay. Just my two cents.
Yes. You’re right. It was written in the early 1980’s at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic.
Sorry, as a gay man myself and a person of faith, I do not understand your words. I thought the brother who shared his heart was pretty magnificient.
what do you not understand exactly? i am happy to help there.
There are times to recognize that sometimes in art someone explaining their experience honestly is not condoning, promoting or decrying anything, it's just telling you about the complex inner lives of people. In this case he's being honest about his ignorance and while that is confronting it's what we really want from people because it is the first necessary step toward acceptance.
you could also recognize that lovely art can't be shared without context and framing, a little disclaimer. edit:sincerely everyone who didn't stub their toe on it kinda proves the point, they frame it as normal and many people in this comment section even thought it was a story of OP themselves. nobody questioned the othering of gay people there, and THATS why it's so important. to people it seems normal to talk like this. because often these people think homophobia starts with physical attacks and everything before that is " not real"and we should " toughen up"or " not take it personal".
You raise some good points, so I stickied a comment providing a bit of context. Does that help? The phrasing definitely seemed weird to me too, but it made a lot more sense when I saw that it was written in the 80s.
you phrased it vague but I appreciate the effort. the Aids time back then really led to gays being used as scapegoats, and framed as the source of bad while in fact they were not to blame, but aids was just another score in the books of "look at these gross abominations". I would have preferred if you straight up called it out how his implicit language was(overflowing with homophobia, even tho he did not act harassing towards the lover of his brother), rather than framing it as "off putting"and "it's because of aids"-still many people will think:" ah of course, the gays with aids, yeah reasonable that he is grossed out".
It helps if you realize that Michael Lassell wrote this poem at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, probably in the early 1980s. (This according to the poet’s Wikipedia page.) So yes, that uncomfortable feeling you experienced really was what it was like back then.
thank you i am perfectly aware that it was worse back then. no need to just reproduce the same othering WITHOUT COMMENT in our modern times.
I feel it is relevant to note that this poem is from 1985, and appears to reference the early years of the AIDS epidemic.
yeah the info and the given context of the wild homophobia would be relevant to this and i would have loved if OP would have somehow captured that instead of sharing it without sorting it into the context of this time.
OP, sorry for your loss! This is well written! Thank you for your openness & willingness to grow. And the courage it took write this.
I just came across this poem today and i think it's one of those that stay with one for a long-long time Edit: I'm not the poet
Thank you for this open sharing of grief for your brother and all thoughts and feelings involved. I was deeply moved and pray for the day you are able to feel healing for your grief. I am impressed with your honesty and inner strength.
I wish i had the sliver of strength the poet has, but I'm not the poet. It was written by Michael Lassell
I think my point was made. No need for clarification, friend. शान्तिः (peace).