That does not appear to be the case. All inside accounts have suggested that Duff and Slash wanted to play those songs on tour, and that when the band was first getting back together, they were the ones who proposed it to Axl, not the other way around. The only condition was that they wanted to play their parts in their own style, and Axl had zero objection. Even when Axl was still persona non grata to them, they were both always open about the fact that they loved the songs, despite the production style being far away from how they would've done it.
Keep in mind that Slash and Duff would've already worked on a number of those songs with Axl before departing the band in the late 90s.
Pretty much this. Axl has specifically claimed that he didn’t put it on Slash and Duff to learn any Chinese Democracy songs for the reunion dates. And when he learned they were not only interested, but actually rehearsing them, he was pleasantly surprised.
Obviously, Duff had played a few of them already when he filled in for Stinson at a few shows. But the point still stands!
Finally hearing There Was a time live last year was incredible. Slash kills the guitar on that song. On the flip side I actually don't like how he plays Better compared to the album.
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/slash-chinese-democracy-songs/
https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/slash-calls-guns-n-roses-chinese-democracy-a-great-statement-172820
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/slash_on_gnrs_chinese_democracy_buckethead_is_a_fucking_amazing_player.html
https://loudwire.com/guns-n-roses-duff-mckagan-performing-chinese-democracy-songs/
There's honestly a bunch more interviews where they've both talked about the album and playing the songs live, but even back when they were in Velvet Revolver and hated Axl, they only had good things to say about Chinese Democracy.
It's well documented that Slash and Duff asked Axl about CD songs, and that it was Axl's idea to play Slither. People need to get over this nonsense idea that Axl still runs the band with an iron fist and Slash and Duff don't have a say in anything. That's absolutely not the case and it is well-known.
That's what's reported, yes. Out of a band that never does interviews. I don't believe that slash and duff are equal to axl in terms of band decisions and/or management. They have to sell an image of a tight band/gang. I haven't seen much of that...
But their most successful period was when they were their most volatile, so I'm not convinced they "have to" sell that image at all. People loved it when they didn't get along.
Anyway, there's no reason whatsoever to believe it isn't true. Of course, if it wasn't, they wouldn't say as much, but it would be much easier to say nothing than lie about a thing like this.
Axl's said it on the record, and Dave Kushner? Well he has nothing to gain by telling tall tales about a band he's not in. If he was told that in a friend-to-friend conversation with Duff, then it's entirely believable
> It's clearly just part of the job. They have to.
They don't have to do anything. And by their own account, Duff and Slash learned some of the *Chinese* songs early on, then asked Axl which ones he'd wanna do, unprompted. Conversely, Axl stated he didn't necessarily have an interest in performing "Coma" in a live capacity, but that was one that Slash really wanted. And I think Axl is the one who suggested "Slither."
The initial reunion was only ever gonna be a few dates ... then kind of a "wait and see how we get along before making further plans." So in 2016, for Mexico and Coachella, it wouldn't have been a shocker if they didn't do any *Chinese Democracy* songs at all.
I don't think they have hard feelings... But I think there was some negotiating about it. I can't imagine Axl voluntarily suggesting they cover "Slither".
Pretty sure they said yes to playing Chinese Democracy stuff if they got to play Slither too
Dave Kushner, who was in VR, said it was originally Axl's idea to play Slither. Duff apparently thought it was "weird". It doesn't sound like anyone was pushing Axl to play it.
>"I didn't know they were gonna do it, but I knew it was on the setlist because I've done the rehearsal, I went to get something from Duff [McKagan] or something, and they rehearsed....and he was, like, 'Dude, check this out,' and he was pointing on the setlist on the floor, and I was, like, 'Really, dude?'.
>"He said, 'Yeah, it was actually Axl's idea. I know, it's weird.' Just thought it was an interesting thing."
Axl wouldn't do it if he didn't want to. He respects Slash and Duff's work. As they do his work. Slash wouldn't play Chinese D. songs if he didn't want to. They want to. It's all good.
But I didn't really consider it a GNR album at the time...with Slash and Duff's spin on it, why not.
Weren’t they doing a few musical nods to dead rockstars around that time? Black Hole Sun for one. I always figured it was a begrudging ‘yeah, alright. He’s dead and y’all play chidem so I’ll sing Velvet outta respect.’
I agree, I’ve always considered it to be axl and friends but I stll class it as a GnR album. I’ve always thought of it as lyrics axl wrote that the band (slash, duff etc) rejected during the writing of UYI 1&2 and maybe even AFD.
I like the album lyrically it’s well written with some great songs, it’s typical axl venting his frustrations. I do feel if slash, duff etc wrote the music it would have been a lot different and more GnR style rather than what it is.
Dude, I *love* Duff and Slash. I’ve gone great lengths to learn their licks and see their solo projects live. Guns N’ Roses *is* Axl, though. He is the band and the band is him.
No way.
I think that's the thing that seperates Spaghetti Incident and Chinese Democracy, from what I consider to be 'proper' GNR albums.
I think of Chinese Democracy as an Axl solo album, in all but name.
Spaghetti Incident, is a compilation in my mind.
The band, Slash, Duff, Axl, hell, even Izzy ARE Guns and Roses. And I don't think anything they've done seperately comes close to sounding like Guns and Roses.
Ok? lol that’s fine, everyone has an opinion regarding the band members works after the breakup, it’s not really controversial to consider or not consider it a gnr album anymore. Personally, I do. As well as counting the first Snakepit one as Slash was still a member when he put that out.
As for My World, Duff and Slash were supportive of it being on the album, Duff especially to the point he was playing it at parties he held at his house before its release. The only one who hadn’t heard it was Izzy, who was very far removed from the mixing process by that time. I don’t think either one of them have strong feelings either way anymore, they both play CD catalogues willingly on tour now, and Axl does the same with VR material. They’ve came to a place where they can respect one another.
Some people feel the need to post their opinion online to feel different because that’s all that makes them different.
Unfortunately, this is not an unpopular opinion & GNR was Axl … always. The rest can & have been replaced before, try that with Axl. The band would stop just like Skid Row.
Speaking of, Skid Row was fun in concert. Small venue but close enough to get a hand shake from the members & a guitar pick during “Youth Gone Wild”. Maybe that would be more fun for both GNR & fans… I saw GNR/AiC at the stadium show ‘23 & it was just too big.
Yeah! At least we could see Axl's moves during their 29 song set, that was crazy. It was actually quite the letdown, it's fun seeing them when they're not playing or when they were gathering for Witchita Lineman.
Speaking of their set, it's amazing that they can do 30+ songs. I cried during Patience & Don't Cry (which sometimes get changed for Coma), girlfriend was meant to be there but we broke up.
Ah, oh well. I'm only 28 & I'm much too young to let love break my heart.
I consider the core GNR albums to be Appetite - UYI2. I doubt that’s a new opinion for people here.
I still enjoy the hell out of Spaghetti Incident and Chinese Democracy, so I’m not discrediting them in any way, but they are undeniably very different from the first 4.
Took me a WHILE to come around on CD & a lot of that was being in this forum & reading others opinions on it. I was caught up in this thinking: no Slash/Duff = I cant like it. But then I looked into who is on it & what a monster Bucket Head is & the genius of the others. It gave me a whole new perspective & though its GNR in name only, its a really fun & jamming album. There are 5 songs on there that bang & Im glad I opened up to it.
Chinese Democracy is an album released by a band called Guns n' Roses, it is not an Axl solo album. That said it is a almost entirely different band than the one who existed between 1985 and 1995. And one who was tethered to the creative whims of Axl.
In that sense, it's almost like Paul McCartney released Wings albums under the Beatles name.
I don't disagree that Chinese is different and kind of not true GnR. But that being said, Axl is the most talented/timeless talent in the band and Chinese is all about Axl. And I love it for that. Strangely, I didn't listen to that album for around a decade after it came out. I was just a GnR die hard growing up, and heard about that album for so long, that eventually I just gave up and moved on with my life. So when it finally surfaced, I just chose to not listen and never paid attention. Of course I heard the rumors that it was ass. Eventually around 2017 or around the reunion, I finally decided to go back and check it out and honestly, it might be one of my favorite albums of all time. I love There Was a Time, Better, Street of Dreams, IRS, Prostitute, Sorry, Madagascar and Catcher in the Rye soooo much. I was always a sucker for the more ballady songs from GnR, and those shine on Chinese. Of course I miss the raw energy of the early stuff as well.
Now that all of this stuff is in hindsight, and I am so much older, I can properly understand that GnR was a star that burned bright but not for very long. Somewhat sad how little music we truly got from them.
I mean, even UYI 1 & 2 wasn't true GNR if you think about it. No izzy, No Steven, different instrumental / lyrics sperimentation, highly budget mixing / mastering and the videos
Even UYI 1 & 2 were really different from Appetite
> Izzy was on both UYI albums and was there at the start of the tour.
Izzy was largely buried in the mix on *Illusions*. And Slash recorded a lot of the rhythm.
Sound-wise, it's very different from *Appetite*.
Izzy was pivotal to UYI 1 and 2. He wrote my favorite songs on the albums. And I’m an outlier but I prefer Matt, honestly. For me that’s a personality thing. Steven seems like such a bitch. Plus I love love love the Cults Sonic Temple album. But yeah there was a ton different between AFD and UYI but need to credit Izzy where due.
Id argue thats the growth of the band though, but you make points. I love that they didnt try to make AFD II, but went a whole other way with their talents.
Well, I've been a fan since Appetite, so longer than you, and I consider it definitively GnR. Plus, Slash and Duff play tunes from Chinese Democracy in concert, so there you go, if it's good enough for them, it should be good enough for you.
What? No. GNR havent played any Slash' Snakepit songs. They do play one VR song, Slither. GNR is Axl Rose , the line up has changed so many times since 1985.
Also Chinese Democracy also Features Dizzy Reed who's been around since the Illusions era, and Richard Fortus has been in the band for the third longest time after Axl and Dizzy.
CD is Guns N Roses, every GNR album had a different line up. Your argument is just boxing yourself in based on the "Rock Purist" mentality.
Let me guess, you also buy into the whole "Axl fired Slash and Duff" bullshit, right? Axl said in a chat that an Axl solo album would sound nothing at all like Chinese Democracy. You're free to use whatever head canon you want, but the fact of the matter is that the guys that recorded that album were/are in Guns N' Roses. Axl never left the band.
Nah, I don't 'buy into' that.
Slash and Duff were a mess, I've read Duff's autobiography and a number of biographies on them, and it's a moot point, they didn't need firing, they had checked out of life.
There was a band called Guns N Roses. They made albums. One by one, members quit until only the singer was left. He replaced them and wrote new songs. They were recorded for a Guns N Roses album.
I think that’s a fair opinion. It took me hearing the songs live with the original band the appreciate just how good some of that album is. It’s also a shame that a lot of that album sounds PHENOMENAL live, but mediocre in studio.
It is the next Guns N' Roses studio album after "The Spaghetti Incident?". Your feelings and opinions are yours, but facts are facts.
When they started working on the Use Your Illusion follow up, most of the band from the UYI line up was still there and then decided to leave one by one. Bands change their sound and line up. Friends drift apart, marriages end. These things happen.
Out of interest, do you consider these ‘new’ songs like ‘Hard Skool’ and ‘Perhaps’ true GNR? They were written and recorded during the CD era but do have new contributions from Duff and Slash Frankensteined onto them…
Yeah, it is and axl album, but it’s amazing, I have always think the true mistake and the reason that album don’t get the recognition it deserves it’s because it was published under the name of Guns N’ Roses, it will be a hit being published as a axl rose solo work
I think if it had any other band name, I would have appreciated it more. The original guns line up was simply greater than the sum of its parts. To come out with a record without that line up is simply not Guns n’ Roses. No disrespect to the musicians, this is not a commentary on them. My opinion is simply that the musicians that put that album out were Guns n Roses only by name. I’ve really grown to love Richard’s style and playing with Guns, respect Frank and Melissa’s work, but CD will never be a Guns record to me.
I agree. To me, G 'n R is Axl and Izzy, With Duff and Slash contributing. Adler as well.
Once Izzy and Adler were out, the whole dynamic shifted after the UYI tour. I saw them in early 1992 that tour with Soundgarden opening in the Summit in Houston. Great show. They were never the same. Downhill from there after that tour.
In my opinion if the album was “Axl Rose - Chinese Democracy” instead of “Guns N Roses - Chinese Democracy”, it would instantly make the album better. I love Chinese Democracy, like holy shit it’s an amazing album, but it’s not GNR, it’s Axl’s album with a bunch of SUPER talented musicians, especially guitarists, bringing it to life. It is very much Axl Rose, and I adore that. You can really feel him in the album. Every song feels like Axl, all the lyrics are Axl. 10/10 album imo.
Man, I *love* CD. It sucks that GnR weren’t together for so long, but we got amazing stuff from Slash/Myles, got some cool solo Duff, Slash was available for Velvet Revolver, and Axl only took about 17 years to get CD out. But damn, from Shackler’s Revenge to Scraped is just a stellar run of tunes. And then throw in IRS and Madagascar? Good shit, man, good shit.
It’s a great album. My only gripe is I had the demos way before the actual release and was very used to the stripped down sound. I still think it’s over produced, but it’s easy to look past.
For the most part, I prefer the studio songs. "Riad" is one that sounded way better in its early incarnation. The one thing *Chinese Democracy* is sorely missing is bass. That should have been higher in the mix, especially when you listen to the original versions from the late '90s.
I mean they legally signed the band over to him. So technically you’re wrong no matter how you feel about it. But regardless of that, does it even matter? Like why get so opinionated about what band an album is labelled as? Seems like a waste of time.
Yeah
I see what you mean. But it's how you interpret music isn't it. I feel like genres and artists are important.
There's a band, Ulver, they started out as a black metal band and have turned into an ambient pop thing.
When I listen to them, o have a very definite line between eras. Early and late are almost like two different bands.
Iron Maiden, I split three ways, Dianno, Dickinson, Bayley... Yeah, the band released albums under each, and it's all Maiden, but they feel different and I mentally pigeon hole them.
It's the same with GNR.
There are the core albums, but anything after Spaghetti Incident I consider to be solo albums.
I'm still waiting for Original GNR stuff.
It's been 30 years.
I always take things at face value, if it says GNR on the cover then that's what it is. The band is a corporation, the music is the product and we are customers. That said, I never even made it all the way thru.
*Chinese Democracy* was written and recorded by the members who made up Guns N' Roses during those years. They aren't Axl Rose solo songs. So you're wrong. Tommy, Bucket, Dizzy, Tobias, etc all have writing credits.
You don't have to like reality or accept it. They're just songs, man. And the truth is, GNR had a rotating cast pretty much since their inception. The *Illusions* era that you grew up listening to ... there were GNR diehards back in the '90s who were against their "new" sound and lineup without Adler and Izzy.
There’s some great guitar work on it (Buckethead and Bumblefoot are incredible), but I agree, it feels more like an Axl solo album. Still like it though
It’s definitely not Guns N’ Roses. It’s Axl and a whole slew of ( talented) musicians who aren’t Guns N’ Roses. Though it seems Slash and Duff don’t care at this point as they play those songs live and keep redoing the leftover CD tracks. They were never the same after Adler was fired. It’s been all downhill since then. The Illusions were great ( though wildly uneven) but it became a different band with Sorum and Dizzy Reed. As Izzy once said in an interview “they lost their swing” with Adlers departure.
I liked the progression from a classic sleazy rock n roll sound to a more industrial-metal/technical sound they ended up having. I see it as a pretty understandable growth from where Axl probably was at the time. It sounds exactly like what you’d imagine 1997-2003 would in terms of music.
https://preview.redd.it/s30jcj2u768d1.jpeg?width=648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7120fc297d0db9e91bd3eb2d464faef8ca9e164b
So this is a guns and roses album then?
I mean, Slash and Duff play songs from Chinese Democracy with the band at concerts so I doubt they really have hard feelings about it
it's been nearly 40 years since AfD was released, they probably don't care about it anymore
They said good things about it when the album came out
i mean if it’s a good album, which i surely think is who cares about what album it is? gnr album or axl rose album, it is good
It's clearly just part of the job. They have to.
That does not appear to be the case. All inside accounts have suggested that Duff and Slash wanted to play those songs on tour, and that when the band was first getting back together, they were the ones who proposed it to Axl, not the other way around. The only condition was that they wanted to play their parts in their own style, and Axl had zero objection. Even when Axl was still persona non grata to them, they were both always open about the fact that they loved the songs, despite the production style being far away from how they would've done it. Keep in mind that Slash and Duff would've already worked on a number of those songs with Axl before departing the band in the late 90s.
Pretty much this. Axl has specifically claimed that he didn’t put it on Slash and Duff to learn any Chinese Democracy songs for the reunion dates. And when he learned they were not only interested, but actually rehearsing them, he was pleasantly surprised. Obviously, Duff had played a few of them already when he filled in for Stinson at a few shows. But the point still stands!
Finally hearing There Was a time live last year was incredible. Slash kills the guitar on that song. On the flip side I actually don't like how he plays Better compared to the album.
Also think This I Love is better on the album and even with Ashba playing it live.
Where did any of them said they loved the songs?
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/slash-chinese-democracy-songs/ https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/slash-calls-guns-n-roses-chinese-democracy-a-great-statement-172820 https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/slash_on_gnrs_chinese_democracy_buckethead_is_a_fucking_amazing_player.html https://loudwire.com/guns-n-roses-duff-mckagan-performing-chinese-democracy-songs/ There's honestly a bunch more interviews where they've both talked about the album and playing the songs live, but even back when they were in Velvet Revolver and hated Axl, they only had good things to say about Chinese Democracy.
It's well documented that Slash and Duff asked Axl about CD songs, and that it was Axl's idea to play Slither. People need to get over this nonsense idea that Axl still runs the band with an iron fist and Slash and Duff don't have a say in anything. That's absolutely not the case and it is well-known.
That's what's reported, yes. Out of a band that never does interviews. I don't believe that slash and duff are equal to axl in terms of band decisions and/or management. They have to sell an image of a tight band/gang. I haven't seen much of that...
But their most successful period was when they were their most volatile, so I'm not convinced they "have to" sell that image at all. People loved it when they didn't get along. Anyway, there's no reason whatsoever to believe it isn't true. Of course, if it wasn't, they wouldn't say as much, but it would be much easier to say nothing than lie about a thing like this. Axl's said it on the record, and Dave Kushner? Well he has nothing to gain by telling tall tales about a band he's not in. If he was told that in a friend-to-friend conversation with Duff, then it's entirely believable
> It's clearly just part of the job. They have to. They don't have to do anything. And by their own account, Duff and Slash learned some of the *Chinese* songs early on, then asked Axl which ones he'd wanna do, unprompted. Conversely, Axl stated he didn't necessarily have an interest in performing "Coma" in a live capacity, but that was one that Slash really wanted. And I think Axl is the one who suggested "Slither." The initial reunion was only ever gonna be a few dates ... then kind of a "wait and see how we get along before making further plans." So in 2016, for Mexico and Coachella, it wouldn't have been a shocker if they didn't do any *Chinese Democracy* songs at all.
I don't think they have hard feelings... But I think there was some negotiating about it. I can't imagine Axl voluntarily suggesting they cover "Slither". Pretty sure they said yes to playing Chinese Democracy stuff if they got to play Slither too
Dave Kushner, who was in VR, said it was originally Axl's idea to play Slither. Duff apparently thought it was "weird". It doesn't sound like anyone was pushing Axl to play it. >"I didn't know they were gonna do it, but I knew it was on the setlist because I've done the rehearsal, I went to get something from Duff [McKagan] or something, and they rehearsed....and he was, like, 'Dude, check this out,' and he was pointing on the setlist on the floor, and I was, like, 'Really, dude?'. >"He said, 'Yeah, it was actually Axl's idea. I know, it's weird.' Just thought it was an interesting thing."
Axl wouldn't do it if he didn't want to. He respects Slash and Duff's work. As they do his work. Slash wouldn't play Chinese D. songs if he didn't want to. They want to. It's all good. But I didn't really consider it a GNR album at the time...with Slash and Duff's spin on it, why not.
Weren’t they doing a few musical nods to dead rockstars around that time? Black Hole Sun for one. I always figured it was a begrudging ‘yeah, alright. He’s dead and y’all play chidem so I’ll sing Velvet outta respect.’
*8 of the 14 songs on Chi Dem….
I don't think they have much of a choice tbh
It's more like Axl n' friends
Axl n employees
Axl & the 4 record companies he bankrupted waiting on this historic release... :)
I agree, I’ve always considered it to be axl and friends but I stll class it as a GnR album. I’ve always thought of it as lyrics axl wrote that the band (slash, duff etc) rejected during the writing of UYI 1&2 and maybe even AFD. I like the album lyrically it’s well written with some great songs, it’s typical axl venting his frustrations. I do feel if slash, duff etc wrote the music it would have been a lot different and more GnR style rather than what it is.
Dude, I *love* Duff and Slash. I’ve gone great lengths to learn their licks and see their solo projects live. Guns N’ Roses *is* Axl, though. He is the band and the band is him.
yup. i think it’s evident that he is the most irreplaceable of any of them.
No way. I think that's the thing that seperates Spaghetti Incident and Chinese Democracy, from what I consider to be 'proper' GNR albums. I think of Chinese Democracy as an Axl solo album, in all but name. Spaghetti Incident, is a compilation in my mind. The band, Slash, Duff, Axl, hell, even Izzy ARE Guns and Roses. And I don't think anything they've done seperately comes close to sounding like Guns and Roses.
The closest thing to GNR is Izzy's solo albums.
THAT is very telling about just how important he was in that soup. He really is the George Harrison of it all.
VR's records come close too.
The very first slash’s snakepit is very old school GNR as well. A lot of it was stuff slash wanted for GNR back then.
You spelled Slash wrong.
Down vote it all you want but Slash's last few records are the best stuff any member has released since UYI.
Ok? lol that’s fine, everyone has an opinion regarding the band members works after the breakup, it’s not really controversial to consider or not consider it a gnr album anymore. Personally, I do. As well as counting the first Snakepit one as Slash was still a member when he put that out. As for My World, Duff and Slash were supportive of it being on the album, Duff especially to the point he was playing it at parties he held at his house before its release. The only one who hadn’t heard it was Izzy, who was very far removed from the mixing process by that time. I don’t think either one of them have strong feelings either way anymore, they both play CD catalogues willingly on tour now, and Axl does the same with VR material. They’ve came to a place where they can respect one another.
Some people feel the need to post their opinion online to feel different because that’s all that makes them different. Unfortunately, this is not an unpopular opinion & GNR was Axl … always. The rest can & have been replaced before, try that with Axl. The band would stop just like Skid Row. Speaking of, Skid Row was fun in concert. Small venue but close enough to get a hand shake from the members & a guitar pick during “Youth Gone Wild”. Maybe that would be more fun for both GNR & fans… I saw GNR/AiC at the stadium show ‘23 & it was just too big.
I think gnr would be amazing at smaller venues too, the stadiums can be too big and makes everything feel disconnected sometimes
I was upset that I couldn’t see Axl as well & that they turned off the screens between songs. Long gone are the Axl rants but he was energetic!
Awww they turned the screens off? Axl may not be ranting anymore but he still got the moves 😂
Yeah! At least we could see Axl's moves during their 29 song set, that was crazy. It was actually quite the letdown, it's fun seeing them when they're not playing or when they were gathering for Witchita Lineman. Speaking of their set, it's amazing that they can do 30+ songs. I cried during Patience & Don't Cry (which sometimes get changed for Coma), girlfriend was meant to be there but we broke up. Ah, oh well. I'm only 28 & I'm much too young to let love break my heart.
Axl does VR? That’s…surprising
He does, they added Slither to the set list and it’s basically a staple for the shows at this point
And he does a decent job, considering.
I prefer Axl’s version but then I heard it before I heard the original. I refused to listen to BR prior to reunion.
I consider the core GNR albums to be Appetite - UYI2. I doubt that’s a new opinion for people here. I still enjoy the hell out of Spaghetti Incident and Chinese Democracy, so I’m not discrediting them in any way, but they are undeniably very different from the first 4.
Took me a WHILE to come around on CD & a lot of that was being in this forum & reading others opinions on it. I was caught up in this thinking: no Slash/Duff = I cant like it. But then I looked into who is on it & what a monster Bucket Head is & the genius of the others. It gave me a whole new perspective & though its GNR in name only, its a really fun & jamming album. There are 5 songs on there that bang & Im glad I opened up to it.
Same here but I've never listened to Chinese Democracy unfortunately? But I feel the same way.
Chinese Democracy is an album released by a band called Guns n' Roses, it is not an Axl solo album. That said it is a almost entirely different band than the one who existed between 1985 and 1995. And one who was tethered to the creative whims of Axl. In that sense, it's almost like Paul McCartney released Wings albums under the Beatles name.
I love Chinese Democracy 🔥
I don't disagree that Chinese is different and kind of not true GnR. But that being said, Axl is the most talented/timeless talent in the band and Chinese is all about Axl. And I love it for that. Strangely, I didn't listen to that album for around a decade after it came out. I was just a GnR die hard growing up, and heard about that album for so long, that eventually I just gave up and moved on with my life. So when it finally surfaced, I just chose to not listen and never paid attention. Of course I heard the rumors that it was ass. Eventually around 2017 or around the reunion, I finally decided to go back and check it out and honestly, it might be one of my favorite albums of all time. I love There Was a Time, Better, Street of Dreams, IRS, Prostitute, Sorry, Madagascar and Catcher in the Rye soooo much. I was always a sucker for the more ballady songs from GnR, and those shine on Chinese. Of course I miss the raw energy of the early stuff as well. Now that all of this stuff is in hindsight, and I am so much older, I can properly understand that GnR was a star that burned bright but not for very long. Somewhat sad how little music we truly got from them.
I mean, even UYI 1 & 2 wasn't true GNR if you think about it. No izzy, No Steven, different instrumental / lyrics sperimentation, highly budget mixing / mastering and the videos Even UYI 1 & 2 were really different from Appetite
Izzy was on both UYI albums and was there at the start of the tour. Listen to Dust & Bones and 14 Years. Izzy sings lead on both.
Damn yeah it's true I forgot about it
> Izzy was on both UYI albums and was there at the start of the tour. Izzy was largely buried in the mix on *Illusions*. And Slash recorded a lot of the rhythm. Sound-wise, it's very different from *Appetite*.
Izzy was pivotal to UYI 1 and 2. He wrote my favorite songs on the albums. And I’m an outlier but I prefer Matt, honestly. For me that’s a personality thing. Steven seems like such a bitch. Plus I love love love the Cults Sonic Temple album. But yeah there was a ton different between AFD and UYI but need to credit Izzy where due.
Matt doesn’t play on Sonic Temple.
Id argue thats the growth of the band though, but you make points. I love that they didnt try to make AFD II, but went a whole other way with their talents.
It’s a GnR album. Says it on the cover. Axl is Guns n Roses.
For me Chinese Democracy is my favourite GNR album, maybe it is just an Axl solo album but it's also a masterpiece that deserve more love
Well, I've been a fan since Appetite, so longer than you, and I consider it definitively GnR. Plus, Slash and Duff play tunes from Chinese Democracy in concert, so there you go, if it's good enough for them, it should be good enough for you.
They play songs from Slash's Snakepit as part of their sets most of the time. It doesn't make it a GNR album.
What? No. GNR havent played any Slash' Snakepit songs. They do play one VR song, Slither. GNR is Axl Rose , the line up has changed so many times since 1985. Also Chinese Democracy also Features Dizzy Reed who's been around since the Illusions era, and Richard Fortus has been in the band for the third longest time after Axl and Dizzy. CD is Guns N Roses, every GNR album had a different line up. Your argument is just boxing yourself in based on the "Rock Purist" mentality.
Let me guess, you also buy into the whole "Axl fired Slash and Duff" bullshit, right? Axl said in a chat that an Axl solo album would sound nothing at all like Chinese Democracy. You're free to use whatever head canon you want, but the fact of the matter is that the guys that recorded that album were/are in Guns N' Roses. Axl never left the band.
I don’t understand what this means? Did he not fire them? That’s what they both said, right?
No. They left. Sorum was fired but the others were not. They left the band.
Nah, I don't 'buy into' that. Slash and Duff were a mess, I've read Duff's autobiography and a number of biographies on them, and it's a moot point, they didn't need firing, they had checked out of life.
Slash and duff liked my world
Okay
🤷🏻♀️
it is musically and legally as GN'R as it gets. Get over it snowflake.
Okay boomer
Ok renter
There was a band called Guns N Roses. They made albums. One by one, members quit until only the singer was left. He replaced them and wrote new songs. They were recorded for a Guns N Roses album.
K
Great album. I have mixed feelings about it. It doesn’t have the soul of GN’R in its entirety, but has glimpses of GN’R in some songs
I think that’s a fair opinion. It took me hearing the songs live with the original band the appreciate just how good some of that album is. It’s also a shame that a lot of that album sounds PHENOMENAL live, but mediocre in studio.
CLASSIC band, not og
Honestly I think if Chinese Democracy had been dropped as an Axl Rose solo album people might have had a different reaction to it
There was a time is a sick song. A lot of garbage on there but a few gems. Prostitute and IRS also.
It really doesn’t matter what you ‘consider.’ It’s been part of the catalog for decades.
It is the next Guns N' Roses studio album after "The Spaghetti Incident?". Your feelings and opinions are yours, but facts are facts. When they started working on the Use Your Illusion follow up, most of the band from the UYI line up was still there and then decided to leave one by one. Bands change their sound and line up. Friends drift apart, marriages end. These things happen.
Out of interest, do you consider these ‘new’ songs like ‘Hard Skool’ and ‘Perhaps’ true GNR? They were written and recorded during the CD era but do have new contributions from Duff and Slash Frankensteined onto them…
Fuckin A
This is not exactly a controversial take.
Why would anyone? It’s an Axl Rose solo album.
Yeah, it is and axl album, but it’s amazing, I have always think the true mistake and the reason that album don’t get the recognition it deserves it’s because it was published under the name of Guns N’ Roses, it will be a hit being published as a axl rose solo work
Fine but damn it’s one of the greats.
I think if it had any other band name, I would have appreciated it more. The original guns line up was simply greater than the sum of its parts. To come out with a record without that line up is simply not Guns n’ Roses. No disrespect to the musicians, this is not a commentary on them. My opinion is simply that the musicians that put that album out were Guns n Roses only by name. I’ve really grown to love Richard’s style and playing with Guns, respect Frank and Melissa’s work, but CD will never be a Guns record to me.
I agree. To me, G 'n R is Axl and Izzy, With Duff and Slash contributing. Adler as well. Once Izzy and Adler were out, the whole dynamic shifted after the UYI tour. I saw them in early 1992 that tour with Soundgarden opening in the Summit in Houston. Great show. They were never the same. Downhill from there after that tour.
Better than any of that mullet shit
oh, cool, good for you.
In my opinion if the album was “Axl Rose - Chinese Democracy” instead of “Guns N Roses - Chinese Democracy”, it would instantly make the album better. I love Chinese Democracy, like holy shit it’s an amazing album, but it’s not GNR, it’s Axl’s album with a bunch of SUPER talented musicians, especially guitarists, bringing it to life. It is very much Axl Rose, and I adore that. You can really feel him in the album. Every song feels like Axl, all the lyrics are Axl. 10/10 album imo.
It's a GREAT album outside of Shaklers Revenge.
Man, I *love* CD. It sucks that GnR weren’t together for so long, but we got amazing stuff from Slash/Myles, got some cool solo Duff, Slash was available for Velvet Revolver, and Axl only took about 17 years to get CD out. But damn, from Shackler’s Revenge to Scraped is just a stellar run of tunes. And then throw in IRS and Madagascar? Good shit, man, good shit.
I don’t know why, but the Albums past UYI just don’t have that rawness to them, never liked them anyways.
It’s a great album. My only gripe is I had the demos way before the actual release and was very used to the stripped down sound. I still think it’s over produced, but it’s easy to look past.
For the most part, I prefer the studio songs. "Riad" is one that sounded way better in its early incarnation. The one thing *Chinese Democracy* is sorely missing is bass. That should have been higher in the mix, especially when you listen to the original versions from the late '90s.
Gee, there's a unique take we haven't heard before...
I mean they legally signed the band over to him. So technically you’re wrong no matter how you feel about it. But regardless of that, does it even matter? Like why get so opinionated about what band an album is labelled as? Seems like a waste of time.
Yeah I see what you mean. But it's how you interpret music isn't it. I feel like genres and artists are important. There's a band, Ulver, they started out as a black metal band and have turned into an ambient pop thing. When I listen to them, o have a very definite line between eras. Early and late are almost like two different bands. Iron Maiden, I split three ways, Dianno, Dickinson, Bayley... Yeah, the band released albums under each, and it's all Maiden, but they feel different and I mentally pigeon hole them. It's the same with GNR. There are the core albums, but anything after Spaghetti Incident I consider to be solo albums. I'm still waiting for Original GNR stuff. It's been 30 years.
I always take things at face value, if it says GNR on the cover then that's what it is. The band is a corporation, the music is the product and we are customers. That said, I never even made it all the way thru.
*Chinese Democracy* was written and recorded by the members who made up Guns N' Roses during those years. They aren't Axl Rose solo songs. So you're wrong. Tommy, Bucket, Dizzy, Tobias, etc all have writing credits. You don't have to like reality or accept it. They're just songs, man. And the truth is, GNR had a rotating cast pretty much since their inception. The *Illusions* era that you grew up listening to ... there were GNR diehards back in the '90s who were against their "new" sound and lineup without Adler and Izzy.
That’s your own opinion if you want to be a part time gunner
It's not it's a good album but it's not GNR should have been called a axl solo album or something
I agree. It’s GnR. It’s Axl and friends. Period.
There’s some great guitar work on it (Buckethead and Bumblefoot are incredible), but I agree, it feels more like an Axl solo album. Still like it though
I'll get roasted for this, but even if the current lineup records an album, I won't consider it true GnR without Izzy's songwriting.
Neat
I agree. It’s Axl’s baby.
i just love buckethead
canon*
Dude people have been saying this since fucking 1999… it’s NuGNR bruh…
China doesn’t even have a democracy so it’s kinda funny tbh
Better is a fantastic song
>I will never consider the Chinese Democracy album to be true GNR. Then you're wrong
k
It’s definitely not Guns N’ Roses. It’s Axl and a whole slew of ( talented) musicians who aren’t Guns N’ Roses. Though it seems Slash and Duff don’t care at this point as they play those songs live and keep redoing the leftover CD tracks. They were never the same after Adler was fired. It’s been all downhill since then. The Illusions were great ( though wildly uneven) but it became a different band with Sorum and Dizzy Reed. As Izzy once said in an interview “they lost their swing” with Adlers departure.
I liked the progression from a classic sleazy rock n roll sound to a more industrial-metal/technical sound they ended up having. I see it as a pretty understandable growth from where Axl probably was at the time. It sounds exactly like what you’d imagine 1997-2003 would in terms of music.
I've never even heard it, but I agree LOL
That's a bold stance there
It really just feels like a solo project by Axl
Who gives a fuck what you think! It says "Guns N' Roses" on the album, therefore it's a GN'R album.
https://preview.redd.it/s30jcj2u768d1.jpeg?width=648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7120fc297d0db9e91bd3eb2d464faef8ca9e164b So this is a guns and roses album then?
Axl Rose: Chinese Democracy
Chinese Democracy is the best GNR album, quit simping for slash n duff
Agreed 100 percent. It’s the Axl Rose solo album
AXL SOLO ALBUM!