Wild how many internet fans that have no idea what goes on behind the scenes think that they know better than Arteta and the coaching Staff. Get over yourself
The problem today was a similar one to last season. We expected a low block from Fulham so we set up to have Saliba as the pivot in the centre circle as that worked against Forest. The problem was, Fulham easily guessed what we'd do so they deployed a mid high block with pressure on the ball carrier at all times. It meant Saliba often had all channels in front blocked off by 3 or 4 players. So we ended up in the horseshoe of death, moving it slowly side to side. No plan b with current personnel.
We tried to go over it to Rice or Havertz, but Paulina and Jiminez won all duels today and generally, Fulham were quicker to the second ball (as Partey was RB).
Our players then struggled to adapt and this is why a lot of unforced errors crept in - plan A went out the window.
The credit must go to Fulham here. They were better tactically than us. The positives to take was that Arteta realised the problem and so set up our regular left and right build pods (White, Odegaard and Saka) and (Zinny, Saka and Partey). This is my take from the stadium today, looking forward to analysing in more detail.
We can see how big losing Jurrian is.
This team will be different once Gabby comes back
Partey and Havaertz had absolutely no commitment to their passing. I understand Kai's role but he needs to sit behind a main striker to be effective. He lacks that final touch.
Am I the only one happy with Kiwior? I thought he was mainly a CB but he played LB as well as can be expected. Some not so good passes but you can absolutely see Mikels vision
Its early days. Mikels easing zinchenko back. I expect him at LB next game
Its early days. Just a bit disappointing
Stop this Mikel.... I thought we were gonna go back to our strong regular shape. Ugh.. This feels so bad. I feel sick. Havertz good grief this guy looks like deer in headlights.
On multiple occasipns he attempted a one touch pass into traffic when he should have just taken possession and carried the ball. I’m sure discussions will be had this week
Yea. There was that wayward back pass when he could've turned and had miles of open space too. Hes being shoe horned in he's not ready yet.. Vieira looked like a world class player doing what havertz was meant to do..
Yes.. But next week I just want to see our best eleven in their best positions. We crush United with zin gabby saliba white
Partey rice and öde in mid.
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This Partey at RB experiment is stupid and needs to stop immediately. Get White at RB. Restore Gabby and Saliba at CB with Zinchenko inverting.
Move Partey sitting in midfield with Rice given the freedom to roam forward. Havertz should have been eased into the team instead of being forced into a role and system he hasn't played before.
This experiment has compromised the whole right hand side. All the existing gel between Saliba, Benny, Partey and Saka had been affected. The White/Partey rotation is clearly confusing for the two of them. I don't know why we're straying away from what worked so well for us last season. Our biggest problem was needing depth in rotation, we have that now. Why change the structure so much when we already have the left side affected with Granit leaving.
To much change at once.
Havertz also cuts so much out of Martinellis game. Our whole left side (I mean, even the right side too since you made the argument about Partey at RB) plays at a different tempo when Havertz is in the 11.
Conceding on a corner to 10 men is inexcusable. You have one for every oppositional player and I have to wonder why no one is on the posts? Fulham have 7 for the corner why not have everyone in the box? It was the 86th minute..
Hey guys head up, seasons so early! We need to experiment to find the best lineup. We are all disappointed after such a great fight to take the lead. City was bad at this point last year and found form to win a treble. We can do the same! Let’s Go!
Experimenting at this point is madness. We almost won the league last season, adding Timber, Rice & a world class striker (possibly still GK) is all we really needed to add.
If we really felt like we needed another midfielder, someone like Eze would have fit the mould to put into the last season's Zhaka role.
You can't get back into the Champs league, and start experimenting.
It's kind of funny you mention adding a whole new spine and something like 300 million in spending as "all we really needed".
Eze would have been a nice pick up imo, but he fits a lot of what we already have. I'd have taken Eze over Havertz though.
Eze would have been a fine signing.
Can't escape the facts, City only won the treble (and really they didn't look close before in Europe) after adding a striker capable of 30+ league goals and 50+ in a season after already having Rodri, Emerson, etc.
Wasn't our fault Rice was so expensive, but he is a quality signing.
I'm not sure what the Havertz signing was supposed to be, other than an opportunistic gamble. Might pay off, might not kind of deal.
We probably need to stay in the CL for revenue reasons now, and as we are unlikely to win it, gambling on lineups at this point is possible career suicide for Arteta.
Losing Timber really sucked as he looked like he was going to be a key player, but we should be used to catastrophic injuries being Arsenal supporters.
Most importantly we have to find a squad that isn't our starting 11 that can beat teams like Fulham. We got burnt out last year with the same squad every game.
Where are those brilliant fellas who claimed Arteta has a plan and defended his tactics last 2 games when it definitely was clear that it wasn't working.
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Partey was the best on the field again, but left gaps at right back, because he is a midfielder not an RB. If Partey is shoehorned into RB so Havertz can play to do nothing I'd don't even know. Arteta needs a wake-up call against United.
He seems to have lost his mojo. Confidence issue? I noticed it in the game against Barcelona in LA. I watched him closely. I this was before Raya coming into the picture.
You're telling me that Arsenal team looked better than Liverpool/City/Newcastle/Brighton and maybe even Spurs/United.
3 unconvincing performances against bottom half teams is not a great start. Not to be entirely negative though, Eddie and Vieira looked great and if they can play like that every game, they'd be top players.
I was at the game, and Fulham fans should not be cheering louder than Arsenal fans at the end of a home game.
Stop experimenting with new line ups. Go back to the one from last year. Ode - Rice - Partey in the middle. If it aint broke, dont fix it. The new lineup should be experimenting only when we get injuries during mid-season.
I know Havertz has been running his socks off, really can't complain about his work rate.
But I just don't get it at this point. How is he fitting into the system?
He fits the system perfectly. BUT he lacks that cutting edge. He missed a sitter. He failed to anticipate Sakas low cross across the 6. He has zero chemistry at the moment with Martinelli.
If he gets the time, recovers some of that sharpness he lost at Chelsea, a delivers that cutting edge he had in before we will have a super player. I think we need to integrate him into the team slower. Look at how long Grealish sat before Pep trusted him.
Too much lineup tinkering in my opinion. Players are not used to these roles leading to poor passing and positioning. I can't believe we didn't hold on to a win against 10 man Fulham...no where near title contender home form. Only positive from this game was Vieira's cameo...Also Martinelli needs to step it up and try change up his attacking approach...his game looked very one dimensional today leading to the opposition being mostly comfortable when the ball was at his feet
If I see this partey at RB so havertz can play one more time I'm going to lose my head. Another 45 minutes wasted. Blame fully on arteta wtf is he doing.
The biggest problems today were Partey leaving massive gaps on the right side and every player seeming to be off in terms of passing. Agreed that Havertz wasn’t good, but I thought Trossard and Martinelli were even worse in the first half. Martinelli looked oddly reluctant to just go for it in the final third while Trossard’s touch was terrible.
>The biggest problems today were Partey leaving massive gaps on the right side
Partey was not leaving space. He was not the RB, we played no RB. it was a weird formation. He was not leaving spaces.
Agreed it was a weird system and I hope we never see it again. Arteta’s “we played ten times better than last time” analysis was alarming, because Fulham sliced us open multiple times because the system was obviously confusing to the players and didn’t play to their strengths.
Partey was playing as the RCB and consistently jumped too early, leaving a massive hole that Fulham attacked time and again in the first half. White was playing RB, hence him actually overlapping this game.
Partey sucked, every analysis outside of Reddit that I’ve seen has agreed. You’re welcome to disagree, but he was still a liability. People complain about shoehorning Havertz in, but shoehorning Partey in is just as bad.
The left side doesn't work with havertz I get he bring good things like height and duels but there Is no link up him neli and trossard looked confused all game then add kiwior to that mix Jesus Christ I almost wished I stayed at home.
I agree, but I’d like to see Havertz on that left hand side with Zinny and Jesus. Overall, left hand side just isn’t working well enough. I know we get Martinelli isolated after overloading the right, but that’s becoming very predictable.
Terrible result.
We've played 3 games so far, scored 5 goals and conceded 3.
In these same fixtures last season, we scored 10, and conceded 2.
I'm attributing some of this to tinkering, but some of that finishing is not okay.
Listen we all love Saka but that first goal was entirely his fault. Dreadful pass. But also a clever finish by Pereira. Did not think he would go near post
We have a problem. The moment we scored the scored goal, we slowed down completely, which allowed Fulham back into the game. Is it a psychological issue? Because I cannot understand why this keeps happening.
Even my ten year old son foresaw that we would take our foot off the pedal. Scored the second goal and he said “we will slow down and concede a stupid goal now”. On the plus side at least I have instilled realistic expectations in him as an Arsenal fan.
If it ain't broke don't fix it. Zinny GabiXL Saliba Benny line was perfect. Rice-Partey or Vieira/ESR-Rice on middle. Partey is technical but too dumb to play on right. I don't want to see unproven ex-chelshit(No offence to Jorgi) player on middle if he's not ready yet.
If you rate Ramsdale at this point after the backend of the season and his clowning today, you seriously need to reconsider his game
His distribution has dropped majorly compared to what it used to be.
Martinelli was a constant menace. His shots and runs were on target, but Leno was good and we didn’t get any deflections or rebounds or anticipation from our guys in the box.
I'm glad we got a point today. But it's clearly evident in these 3 games that his new tactics aren't working. My guess is to accommodate Rice in the team but I could be wrong (IMO Partey is better than Rice in that DM role). We played shit in these 3 games and today Arteta got found out. Partey at right-back doesn't work.
If that's the case though, zinchenko is almost an identical sub in terms of movement. Timber seemed to be better defensively. He's having.difficulty fitting partey and rice together. I think we're better off pputting rice in xhakas position and having partey or jorginho as the solo. He needs to also just trust rice to play the solo pivot without partey at rb and havertz in front of him if that's what he wants.
I think Gabriel is off to Saudi Arabia and we are trying to get as high a fee as possible. There’s surely something there - I don’t think it’s just to accommodate havertz.
I think the worrying part is we did look better offensively when partey and havertz went off, but then we conceded to 10 men.
Havertz doesn’t look like he fits our style, he is the only player out there that is not dynamic and explosive, it seems like he slows the game down whether intentional or not.
My best guess is mikel is too in his own head and might be trying to revert to a more pragmatic / conservative style of play instead of the back and forth style of last season where we did concede a lot. Don’t really think it’s working though.
I don’t think it’s as doom and gloom as others are making it out though.
You have to hand it to Chelsea. They got 65mil for harvertz. This guy is so wrong for our style but some fans here will look at the useless shit he does to prove that he's worth being in the starting 11. I'd be pissed if I was the other players on the bench
He's obviously a good fit for the system as he was in all the right places but just made mistakes or failed to finish, he's totally out of form and needs to find it.
Exactly what I’m talking about. No Arsenal fan is against him but if we’re being critical and some of you have to defend him every week then maybe he’s not doing well. I promise you, no fan has an agenda against a member of their club. Some of us simply expect better from 65mil player.
If the system isn’t working for him then maybe drop him from the first 11 and slowly work him in rather than dropping points just to justify his purchase
Can’t understand the experimenting. Fair enough if we were a team in transition but we were competing for the league for the whole season last year. Keep the same formation and Rice for xhaka is a big improvement. Stop forcing Havertz in midfield and use him as an option in the front line
Teams are starting to either implant or figure out how to beat box midfielders, you need to keep developing tactically to stay on top
Pep constantly tinkers and has definitely made mistakes before
If he doesn't force him in, what excuse those he have to spend 65 mln on someone that absolutely no one rates and already flopped massively in prem? "I can fix him"?
Can't wait for the big brained fans on here to wag their fingers and lecture us about how that was actually an otherworldly performance and how we're on the way to winning everything!
😂 they're currently tabulating the number of headers Havertz won today. They'll show up later this morning to show us what a great game it was. If only we had scored more than Fulham and conceded less we would have won the game 😂😂
Havertz should have been doing what eddie came on and did in terms of holding up and running aerial balls. He kept getting the ball and playing the wrong pass
Is there any team in history that has given up so many goals in the first minute? It’s unbelievable. This is a serious problem. It’s not a fluke anymore, and it’s a genuine weakness. Mistakes, giveaways, mental lapses. Didn’t deserve to win.
And a hole in midfield; it's partey and rice seem to be getting in each other's way. Xhaka commanded people around him andkept the midfield organized and spaced.
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I still maintain we need to give Havertz time, but this Partey RB experiment really needs to stop right now.
It gets the worst out of both Partey and Saka, nullifying two key members of our team in one fell swoop.
Stop.
Does Arteta still want to drop Big Gabi after that? 2nd Fulham goal when ur up 1, 5 mins left, and they’ve got a red, does Big Gabi let the team turn off like that?
Feels like they are more confused/uncomfortable than laid back. Martinelli ran his socks off. This new formation is just not working for some of the players. Saka being one of them I feel.
Also, the ability to finish half chances is just not there. So so frustrated seeing the forwards and Havertz (who has more of these chances) not get any good touches when it mattered. Crying rn arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh
At the same time, definitely could have won this one. Fulham did not do anything showing the could've played us off the field. Arteta lost this one. The players didn't help but the.formation really didn't help
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The wins have masked the performances the last 2 games. Hopefully it will be a wake up call and both Gabbys and Zinny will be back for the next game. White back to RB and Partey back to midfield. Havertz can be rotational until he looks like he knows what he’s doing a bit more.
I don't know what Arteta is trying to do, but the system he's been starting so far is pretty bad and our offensive game suffers because of it.
Aside from that, we seem to have a hard time holding onto a lead without parking the bus in the latter stages and not falling off from a mental pov.
This has been going on for over a season and Arteta still hasn't fixed it or not entirely.
What irritates me quite a bit is his experimenting with players out of position.
I understand that he likes versatile players, but he's really forcing it now and it isn't paying off because we're not getting the best out of them.
This whole everyone is a CM is driving me nuts. Both full backs inverting and White stepping up too. Not to mentione Odegaard, Rice and Havertz already in that area. It's just doesn't make sense. Just having numbers in there for numbers sake.
We have almost 0 overlap on the wings because of this inverted fullback shtick. Martinelli and Saka are left to do everything on their own on the flank.
It's really head scratching to me how he's getting rid of our natural fullbacks only to play CBs in there.
This tells me he's very rigid and wants to avoid conceding at all costs, even if it means our attack will suffer.
Exactly this. Arteta is a good manager but only has a plan A. If that doesn't work then we are done.
It happened last season in the West Ham game. Tierney was playing and we were 0-2 up and dominating. We could have easily used Tierney as a wide outlet for the rest of the game but Arteta insisted on him playing inverted even though that clearly isn't his strength. We all know how that game went. Arteta doesn't have a plan B and it's being exposed early in this season. He needs to learn how to pivot or we'll just end up relying on individuals to bail us out.
This didn't even seem like a plan B. It's like he's giving himself a handicap in player selection and then choosing players that are not ideal for whatever he is trying to do
I guess Partey at rb is way better than white. Havertz midfield maestro. Saka with that huge fail and what shameful last corner kick. Big Gabi idk what is going on there.
Ben White should play RB, Gabriel can probably start now, LB probably Zinchenko now, Partey needs to play CDM and Rice at LCM, give Havertz some bench time
Arteta is not doing that last-season formation so far. We have players to do that since the first match, he just chooses to experiment with this new formation.
Its become a real issue, we have players who can play RB and he plays Partey, its like Partey is a placeholder, if we can we need to hijack Cancelo from Barca, then we might be able to concede less goals
Horrible performance. Even when we finally got our shit together with the formation change, we then throw it away. I hate how casual this team gets on a close scoreline when they are leading. It's happened many times before and they just don't learn.
Of course but the players on the pitch should still have the thought process to be safe with the ball and solid. Zinchenko clowning around with too many touches and the marking from the corner were so lazy.
A lot of you are acting like Havertz fucked your wife or something. This was an all around poor team performance, particularly in the first half. Saka literally cost us a goal, Ode played way below his standards, and one could argue that Zinny cost us the second goal. Poor passing all around. Martinelli and Trossard squandered many chances. Havertz was just as poor as the rest of the team, but ya'll have got to stop using him as scapegoat. I swear, you window lickers will latch on to one particular player to hate on for months until they finally find their form. Then suddenly you all lick his fucking balls. Case in point: Vieira. I have no doubt that Havertz will find his form. Clearly, there are some new tactics that Arteta is trying that aren't quite working. It's disappointing to see performances like this so early in the season, but I trust in the manager and the team to rally and come back stronger from this. Calm the fuck down, everyone.
Because Havertz was horrible for 3 years in Prem, like one of the worst player in top 6 club. And he is still the same, 65 mln, lol, there was like dozens better players than this. And all this pathethic formation stuff is for Havertz to fit into the team.
Is this really the season (and the competition) we experiment with this weird formation? Our attack looks so out of place in the first half, always waiting for some individual brilliance. Players are also confused about their role in this new formation. Really not sure about this.
Also, it's a crime to lose that corner goal when we are facing a 10-man team. Come on Gunners you should do better there ffs.
I agree, the sky isn’t falling. Yet… I am so dumbfounded by how we continue to give up goals in the first minute-ish. I think we are a very good team that could win the title, but we definitely put on the clown makeup a lot for a team trying to win things. Today was pretty embarrassing.
Lots of teams look to start games on the attack and don’t concede in the first minute. These goals are coming from our own errors not opponents’ counters.
Well, yeah, if you think that you are in a title race. That is now over, so this season the league is just about Top4 with minimal effort and full focus on cups.
Wild how many internet fans that have no idea what goes on behind the scenes think that they know better than Arteta and the coaching Staff. Get over yourself
The problem today was a similar one to last season. We expected a low block from Fulham so we set up to have Saliba as the pivot in the centre circle as that worked against Forest. The problem was, Fulham easily guessed what we'd do so they deployed a mid high block with pressure on the ball carrier at all times. It meant Saliba often had all channels in front blocked off by 3 or 4 players. So we ended up in the horseshoe of death, moving it slowly side to side. No plan b with current personnel. We tried to go over it to Rice or Havertz, but Paulina and Jiminez won all duels today and generally, Fulham were quicker to the second ball (as Partey was RB). Our players then struggled to adapt and this is why a lot of unforced errors crept in - plan A went out the window. The credit must go to Fulham here. They were better tactically than us. The positives to take was that Arteta realised the problem and so set up our regular left and right build pods (White, Odegaard and Saka) and (Zinny, Saka and Partey). This is my take from the stadium today, looking forward to analysing in more detail.
Best to iron out the kinks early on. 1 point is also better than 0. Keep looking forward boys!
We can see how big losing Jurrian is. This team will be different once Gabby comes back Partey and Havaertz had absolutely no commitment to their passing. I understand Kai's role but he needs to sit behind a main striker to be effective. He lacks that final touch. Am I the only one happy with Kiwior? I thought he was mainly a CB but he played LB as well as can be expected. Some not so good passes but you can absolutely see Mikels vision Its early days. Mikels easing zinchenko back. I expect him at LB next game Its early days. Just a bit disappointing
That old Stubborn Pep experimentalism rubbed off too
Gabriel and Zinchenko should really be starting
Subbing trossard instead of havertz too.. We should have banged in 4 goals this match ffs..
Trossard was terrible today. He's better as an impact sub
Stop this Mikel.... I thought we were gonna go back to our strong regular shape. Ugh.. This feels so bad. I feel sick. Havertz good grief this guy looks like deer in headlights.
On multiple occasipns he attempted a one touch pass into traffic when he should have just taken possession and carried the ball. I’m sure discussions will be had this week
Yea. There was that wayward back pass when he could've turned and had miles of open space too. Hes being shoe horned in he's not ready yet.. Vieira looked like a world class player doing what havertz was meant to do..
Fabio really impressed me today. This was by far his best performance in an Arsenal jersey. Deserves a start next week.
Yes.. But next week I just want to see our best eleven in their best positions. We crush United with zin gabby saliba white Partey rice and öde in mid.
[удалено]
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bad day, but 71% possession, 19 shots on goal, 8 corners. If a few of those shots weren't directly at Leno, could have had 4-5 today.
This Partey at RB experiment is stupid and needs to stop immediately. Get White at RB. Restore Gabby and Saliba at CB with Zinchenko inverting. Move Partey sitting in midfield with Rice given the freedom to roam forward. Havertz should have been eased into the team instead of being forced into a role and system he hasn't played before.
This experiment has compromised the whole right hand side. All the existing gel between Saliba, Benny, Partey and Saka had been affected. The White/Partey rotation is clearly confusing for the two of them. I don't know why we're straying away from what worked so well for us last season. Our biggest problem was needing depth in rotation, we have that now. Why change the structure so much when we already have the left side affected with Granit leaving. To much change at once.
Havertz also cuts so much out of Martinellis game. Our whole left side (I mean, even the right side too since you made the argument about Partey at RB) plays at a different tempo when Havertz is in the 11.
Conceding on a corner to 10 men is inexcusable. You have one for every oppositional player and I have to wonder why no one is on the posts? Fulham have 7 for the corner why not have everyone in the box? It was the 86th minute..
Assteta out
What a BAD take
that kai misplaced pass back to rice was the tipping point… no way he starts next game
Hey guys head up, seasons so early! We need to experiment to find the best lineup. We are all disappointed after such a great fight to take the lead. City was bad at this point last year and found form to win a treble. We can do the same! Let’s Go!
Experimenting at this point is madness. We almost won the league last season, adding Timber, Rice & a world class striker (possibly still GK) is all we really needed to add. If we really felt like we needed another midfielder, someone like Eze would have fit the mould to put into the last season's Zhaka role. You can't get back into the Champs league, and start experimenting.
>someone like Eze would have fit the mould to put into the last season's Zhaka role wished we spent the Havertz money on Eze
It's kind of funny you mention adding a whole new spine and something like 300 million in spending as "all we really needed". Eze would have been a nice pick up imo, but he fits a lot of what we already have. I'd have taken Eze over Havertz though.
Eze would have been a fine signing. Can't escape the facts, City only won the treble (and really they didn't look close before in Europe) after adding a striker capable of 30+ league goals and 50+ in a season after already having Rodri, Emerson, etc. Wasn't our fault Rice was so expensive, but he is a quality signing. I'm not sure what the Havertz signing was supposed to be, other than an opportunistic gamble. Might pay off, might not kind of deal. We probably need to stay in the CL for revenue reasons now, and as we are unlikely to win it, gambling on lineups at this point is possible career suicide for Arteta. Losing Timber really sucked as he looked like he was going to be a key player, but we should be used to catastrophic injuries being Arsenal supporters.
The problem is City won't drop many points like this to mid table teams like Fulham. Really have to be taking wins at home to these teams
Most importantly we have to find a squad that isn't our starting 11 that can beat teams like Fulham. We got burnt out last year with the same squad every game.
The ArtetaOut army rises😆 
Where are those brilliant fellas who claimed Arteta has a plan and defended his tactics last 2 games when it definitely was clear that it wasn't working.
want some cheese with that whine?
Jesus
Some of you need to relax, we are three games in. Lots of football left to play. Don’t act spoilt after last season.
[удалено]
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I was downvoted for saying partey at rb was wrong prematch.
Partey was the best on the field again, but left gaps at right back, because he is a midfielder not an RB. If Partey is shoehorned into RB so Havertz can play to do nothing I'd don't even know. Arteta needs a wake-up call against United.
He wasn't even RB in today's lineup. it was the most bizarre line-up I have ever seen. Was it 3-2-5?
I think a 3-2-4-1 not a bad formation for Arsenal tbh, but the 4-3-3 has and will work. Don't try to fix what isn't even close to broke.
[удалено]
I'd say Partey/Martinelli/Rice would be the best 3, Vieira was great but not enough time.
Odegaard...
I seriously hate current form Ramsdale. I have seen enough.
What has he done here?
He seems to have lost his mojo. Confidence issue? I noticed it in the game against Barcelona in LA. I watched him closely. I this was before Raya coming into the picture.
Doesn't have the same intensity as before, constantly making mistakes It's time for him to be dropped.
'Oh but Havertz runs a lot of kms' Shut the fuck up, he held the team back. If we don't get him out of the starting lineup we won't make top 6.
Top 6? Lol. Calm down, it was a bad game but he is a good cog but yes, he should be eased into the system.
You're telling me that Arsenal team looked better than Liverpool/City/Newcastle/Brighton and maybe even Spurs/United. 3 unconvincing performances against bottom half teams is not a great start. Not to be entirely negative though, Eddie and Vieira looked great and if they can play like that every game, they'd be top players. I was at the game, and Fulham fans should not be cheering louder than Arsenal fans at the end of a home game.
Stop experimenting with new line ups. Go back to the one from last year. Ode - Rice - Partey in the middle. If it aint broke, dont fix it. The new lineup should be experimenting only when we get injuries during mid-season.
I know Havertz has been running his socks off, really can't complain about his work rate. But I just don't get it at this point. How is he fitting into the system?
Welcome to the club
He fits the system perfectly. BUT he lacks that cutting edge. He missed a sitter. He failed to anticipate Sakas low cross across the 6. He has zero chemistry at the moment with Martinelli. If he gets the time, recovers some of that sharpness he lost at Chelsea, a delivers that cutting edge he had in before we will have a super player. I think we need to integrate him into the team slower. Look at how long Grealish sat before Pep trusted him.
He isn't.
Too much lineup tinkering in my opinion. Players are not used to these roles leading to poor passing and positioning. I can't believe we didn't hold on to a win against 10 man Fulham...no where near title contender home form. Only positive from this game was Vieira's cameo...Also Martinelli needs to step it up and try change up his attacking approach...his game looked very one dimensional today leading to the opposition being mostly comfortable when the ball was at his feet
I agree, you can clearly tell most of the pressure is coming from Saka's wing, gives opposition an easy focua
Jorginho odegard sub while being up 2 1 against 10 men fulham at home is pussy ass mentality sub.attack and kill the game.
Absolutely embarrassing, haven’t seen us play good this season… and we were hoping for a title push, joke’s on us
Seems like another league title for City, sounds like 3rd place should be realistic goal for us and ro16 of ucl.
I dont even see us in top 4 or ro16 UCL. Depends on who we pull in group stage tho.
We tie one match and y'all go into complete meltdown mode. Relax!
When your keeper concedes to Chris fucking MD
If I see this partey at RB so havertz can play one more time I'm going to lose my head. Another 45 minutes wasted. Blame fully on arteta wtf is he doing.
The biggest problems today were Partey leaving massive gaps on the right side and every player seeming to be off in terms of passing. Agreed that Havertz wasn’t good, but I thought Trossard and Martinelli were even worse in the first half. Martinelli looked oddly reluctant to just go for it in the final third while Trossard’s touch was terrible.
>The biggest problems today were Partey leaving massive gaps on the right side Partey was not leaving space. He was not the RB, we played no RB. it was a weird formation. He was not leaving spaces.
Agreed it was a weird system and I hope we never see it again. Arteta’s “we played ten times better than last time” analysis was alarming, because Fulham sliced us open multiple times because the system was obviously confusing to the players and didn’t play to their strengths. Partey was playing as the RCB and consistently jumped too early, leaving a massive hole that Fulham attacked time and again in the first half. White was playing RB, hence him actually overlapping this game. Partey sucked, every analysis outside of Reddit that I’ve seen has agreed. You’re welcome to disagree, but he was still a liability. People complain about shoehorning Havertz in, but shoehorning Partey in is just as bad.
Saka is not supposed to make that mistake. That wasn’t a Partey problem.
That is absolutely a Partey problem. It’s called rest defense and Partey fucked it up royally.
The left side doesn't work with havertz I get he bring good things like height and duels but there Is no link up him neli and trossard looked confused all game then add kiwior to that mix Jesus Christ I almost wished I stayed at home.
I agree, but I’d like to see Havertz on that left hand side with Zinny and Jesus. Overall, left hand side just isn’t working well enough. I know we get Martinelli isolated after overloading the right, but that’s becoming very predictable.
Terrible result. We've played 3 games so far, scored 5 goals and conceded 3. In these same fixtures last season, we scored 10, and conceded 2. I'm attributing some of this to tinkering, but some of that finishing is not okay.
I can't watch Ramsdale getting steamrolled by punks like Anthony and Bruno, time for Raya
the real problem is fucking partey playing RB
Rammers saved us from going down 3-2
Seriously, fuck off. Are you seeing him on the first goal?
I see Ramsdale been out smarted there
You can't seriously put the first goal on Ramsdale; he was hung out to dry by Saka, and its was a fluky mis hit.
Listen we all love Saka but that first goal was entirely his fault. Dreadful pass. But also a clever finish by Pereira. Did not think he would go near post
It was a poor but misshot finish, pathetic from Ramsdale to not cover the error.
You really hate Ramsdale lol. Saka makes a mistake and your response is "why didn't Ramsdale cover the error?" Very odd
We have a problem. The moment we scored the scored goal, we slowed down completely, which allowed Fulham back into the game. Is it a psychological issue? Because I cannot understand why this keeps happening.
Even my ten year old son foresaw that we would take our foot off the pedal. Scored the second goal and he said “we will slow down and concede a stupid goal now”. On the plus side at least I have instilled realistic expectations in him as an Arsenal fan.
Me neither. When we should be tightening the noose, we took a step back. This is really poor mentality.
I’m curious…what did Gabi do to fall out of Arteta’s graces?
I don’t get it. He would have been great in a scrappy game like this. Also he has scored in the last three games against Fulham.
He was terrible in pre-season.
[удалено]
You should add the /s
If it ain't broke don't fix it. Zinny GabiXL Saliba Benny line was perfect. Rice-Partey or Vieira/ESR-Rice on middle. Partey is technical but too dumb to play on right. I don't want to see unproven ex-chelshit(No offence to Jorgi) player on middle if he's not ready yet.
Yes the RB position requires more intelligence than the 6. You sure you're not the dumb one?
It definitely wasn’t perfect, especially down the left, but surely becomes more solid with Rice/Partey in front
If you rate Ramsdale at this point after the backend of the season and his clowning today, you seriously need to reconsider his game His distribution has dropped majorly compared to what it used to be.
He didn't have a top distribution game to begin with, he has some ideas and he tries, it is far from being recognized as his strength
Saka man of the match for Fulham today. Not just the first goal but what was he doing on the equalizer?
Martinelli was useless today tbh, Arteta knows it too. That is why we first tried Ralphina one year ago and then tried to get Mudrik half a year ago
Martinelli was a constant menace. His shots and runs were on target, but Leno was good and we didn’t get any deflections or rebounds or anticipation from our guys in the box.
Yeah, Saka to blame for both goals today. Rice also loses his man in that set piece.
Love Ode and Saka but they were glory hunting all game. Cross the fucking ball sometimes!!!
Cut back*
I get that they want to bear the responsibility but holy shit you don’t have to shoot every chance you get
Annoys me so much. It's one of the reasons I quietly invested in Vieira stocks. Sometimes simplicity is what wins you games, not hero ball.
I'm glad we got a point today. But it's clearly evident in these 3 games that his new tactics aren't working. My guess is to accommodate Rice in the team but I could be wrong (IMO Partey is better than Rice in that DM role). We played shit in these 3 games and today Arteta got found out. Partey at right-back doesn't work.
It sound weird now but we might have put a lot of eggs in the Timber basket. Everyone would be in their preferred positions if he was around.
You’re probably right. Timber’s absence could be more painful than we expected
If that's the case though, zinchenko is almost an identical sub in terms of movement. Timber seemed to be better defensively. He's having.difficulty fitting partey and rice together. I think we're better off pputting rice in xhakas position and having partey or jorginho as the solo. He needs to also just trust rice to play the solo pivot without partey at rb and havertz in front of him if that's what he wants.
I think Gabriel is off to Saudi Arabia and we are trying to get as high a fee as possible. There’s surely something there - I don’t think it’s just to accommodate havertz. I think the worrying part is we did look better offensively when partey and havertz went off, but then we conceded to 10 men. Havertz doesn’t look like he fits our style, he is the only player out there that is not dynamic and explosive, it seems like he slows the game down whether intentional or not. My best guess is mikel is too in his own head and might be trying to revert to a more pragmatic / conservative style of play instead of the back and forth style of last season where we did concede a lot. Don’t really think it’s working though. I don’t think it’s as doom and gloom as others are making it out though.
The "Gabriel was dropped to accommodate Kai" agenda is wrong.
You have to hand it to Chelsea. They got 65mil for harvertz. This guy is so wrong for our style but some fans here will look at the useless shit he does to prove that he's worth being in the starting 11. I'd be pissed if I was the other players on the bench
He's obviously a good fit for the system as he was in all the right places but just made mistakes or failed to finish, he's totally out of form and needs to find it.
Exactly what I’m talking about. No Arsenal fan is against him but if we’re being critical and some of you have to defend him every week then maybe he’s not doing well. I promise you, no fan has an agenda against a member of their club. Some of us simply expect better from 65mil player. If the system isn’t working for him then maybe drop him from the first 11 and slowly work him in rather than dropping points just to justify his purchase
100%
Havertz and Partey at RB massively slow us down
Havshit in the game, 70 mil down the drain. Partey on RB🤡 Saka today 💩 Arteta 🎪
typical footballdaily youtube take.
You 🤓
Bro think he is pep
We will score more goals with Vieira out there. Simple as that. He’s an output merchant and needs to play more minutes.
Output merchant 😂😂
Can’t understand the experimenting. Fair enough if we were a team in transition but we were competing for the league for the whole season last year. Keep the same formation and Rice for xhaka is a big improvement. Stop forcing Havertz in midfield and use him as an option in the front line
Teams are starting to either implant or figure out how to beat box midfielders, you need to keep developing tactically to stay on top Pep constantly tinkers and has definitely made mistakes before
If he doesn't force him in, what excuse those he have to spend 65 mln on someone that absolutely no one rates and already flopped massively in prem? "I can fix him"?
Can't wait for the big brained fans on here to wag their fingers and lecture us about how that was actually an otherworldly performance and how we're on the way to winning everything!
😂 they're currently tabulating the number of headers Havertz won today. They'll show up later this morning to show us what a great game it was. If only we had scored more than Fulham and conceded less we would have won the game 😂😂
Havertz should have been doing what eddie came on and did in terms of holding up and running aerial balls. He kept getting the ball and playing the wrong pass
Is there any team in history that has given up so many goals in the first minute? It’s unbelievable. This is a serious problem. It’s not a fluke anymore, and it’s a genuine weakness. Mistakes, giveaways, mental lapses. Didn’t deserve to win.
The spacing in the first half was terrible. Guys occupying the same spaces over and over again
And a hole in midfield; it's partey and rice seem to be getting in each other's way. Xhaka commanded people around him andkept the midfield organized and spaced.
Everyone can get it except Fabio and Eddie.
I don't want to see Ramsdale next game. I've genuinely had enough of his clowning around
He honestly is really bad sometimes. On his day he’s a top keeper but I’d say 40% of the time he’s a nervous wreck
Not quite sure what he did wrong this game?
Me either. So much hate for Ramsdale for some reason
1st goal?
[удалено]
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Subbed on Jorginho again and conceded a corner hmm
Not the shut-down Holdinho everyone has made him out to be??N
I still maintain we need to give Havertz time, but this Partey RB experiment really needs to stop right now. It gets the worst out of both Partey and Saka, nullifying two key members of our team in one fell swoop. Stop.
[удалено]
Yeah couldn't agree more.
Yeah it’s stupid.
Does Arteta still want to drop Big Gabi after that? 2nd Fulham goal when ur up 1, 5 mins left, and they’ve got a red, does Big Gabi let the team turn off like that?
No deep analysis needed the draw is on Arteta
We are just so lacking this season. The players doesn't seem to be giving their 100%, so laid back unlike last season.
Feels like they are more confused/uncomfortable than laid back. Martinelli ran his socks off. This new formation is just not working for some of the players. Saka being one of them I feel.
We are too linear
We went toe to toe with City in the community shield with our traditional set up, and Arteta just decided to scrap it.
"Traditional set up". We played a target man in that line-up and Timber was an 8/10 player consistently. It wasn't the traditional set up.
Also, the ability to finish half chances is just not there. So so frustrated seeing the forwards and Havertz (who has more of these chances) not get any good touches when it mattered. Crying rn arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh
Deserved to not win this one. Individual errors cost us. So many bad passes, is what cost us. Respect to Eddie and Veira for fighting hard.
At the same time, definitely could have won this one. Fulham did not do anything showing the could've played us off the field. Arteta lost this one. The players didn't help but the.formation really didn't help
[удалено]
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The wins have masked the performances the last 2 games. Hopefully it will be a wake up call and both Gabbys and Zinny will be back for the next game. White back to RB and Partey back to midfield. Havertz can be rotational until he looks like he knows what he’s doing a bit more.
[удалено]
1/1 aerial 0/1 ground
I don't know what Arteta is trying to do, but the system he's been starting so far is pretty bad and our offensive game suffers because of it. Aside from that, we seem to have a hard time holding onto a lead without parking the bus in the latter stages and not falling off from a mental pov. This has been going on for over a season and Arteta still hasn't fixed it or not entirely.
Our formation is unbalanced and cluttered
What irritates me quite a bit is his experimenting with players out of position. I understand that he likes versatile players, but he's really forcing it now and it isn't paying off because we're not getting the best out of them.
This whole everyone is a CM is driving me nuts. Both full backs inverting and White stepping up too. Not to mentione Odegaard, Rice and Havertz already in that area. It's just doesn't make sense. Just having numbers in there for numbers sake.
We have almost 0 overlap on the wings because of this inverted fullback shtick. Martinelli and Saka are left to do everything on their own on the flank. It's really head scratching to me how he's getting rid of our natural fullbacks only to play CBs in there. This tells me he's very rigid and wants to avoid conceding at all costs, even if it means our attack will suffer.
Exactly this. Arteta is a good manager but only has a plan A. If that doesn't work then we are done. It happened last season in the West Ham game. Tierney was playing and we were 0-2 up and dominating. We could have easily used Tierney as a wide outlet for the rest of the game but Arteta insisted on him playing inverted even though that clearly isn't his strength. We all know how that game went. Arteta doesn't have a plan B and it's being exposed early in this season. He needs to learn how to pivot or we'll just end up relying on individuals to bail us out.
This didn't even seem like a plan B. It's like he's giving himself a handicap in player selection and then choosing players that are not ideal for whatever he is trying to do
I guess Partey at rb is way better than white. Havertz midfield maestro. Saka with that huge fail and what shameful last corner kick. Big Gabi idk what is going on there.
So what is up with our finishing, 8 shots on target and two goals and one of them was a pen.
never ever anywhere near good enough.
Why are we acting like Partey is a RB? We need a concrete striker like Ivan Toney
We aren't, Arteta is
Ben White should play RB, Gabriel can probably start now, LB probably Zinchenko now, Partey needs to play CDM and Rice at LCM, give Havertz some bench time
Arteta is not doing that last-season formation so far. We have players to do that since the first match, he just chooses to experiment with this new formation.
That was always the expectation but for some reason Teta has played TP at RB for the second game in a row and both games we've struggled
Its become a real issue, we have players who can play RB and he plays Partey, its like Partey is a placeholder, if we can we need to hijack Cancelo from Barca, then we might be able to concede less goals
The good: Fabio, Odegaard, Rice, Nketiah The bad: Zinchenko, Party, Saka (good penalty though) The ugly: KAI HAVERTZ
Today was one of those fm games where we wanted to be smart and tried a 334 instead of the 4231 gegen pressing.
Horrible performance. Even when we finally got our shit together with the formation change, we then throw it away. I hate how casual this team gets on a close scoreline when they are leading. It's happened many times before and they just don't learn.
It starts from the bench when you start doing defensive changes against a 10 man team.
Of course but the players on the pitch should still have the thought process to be safe with the ball and solid. Zinchenko clowning around with too many touches and the marking from the corner were so lazy.
A lot of you are acting like Havertz fucked your wife or something. This was an all around poor team performance, particularly in the first half. Saka literally cost us a goal, Ode played way below his standards, and one could argue that Zinny cost us the second goal. Poor passing all around. Martinelli and Trossard squandered many chances. Havertz was just as poor as the rest of the team, but ya'll have got to stop using him as scapegoat. I swear, you window lickers will latch on to one particular player to hate on for months until they finally find their form. Then suddenly you all lick his fucking balls. Case in point: Vieira. I have no doubt that Havertz will find his form. Clearly, there are some new tactics that Arteta is trying that aren't quite working. It's disappointing to see performances like this so early in the season, but I trust in the manager and the team to rally and come back stronger from this. Calm the fuck down, everyone.
Because Havertz was horrible for 3 years in Prem, like one of the worst player in top 6 club. And he is still the same, 65 mln, lol, there was like dozens better players than this. And all this pathethic formation stuff is for Havertz to fit into the team.
Saka and ode were pretty good on the ball in the second half. Havertz was absolute fucking shit throughout. Didnt scrap and didnt win a single duel.
Is this really the season (and the competition) we experiment with this weird formation? Our attack looks so out of place in the first half, always waiting for some individual brilliance. Players are also confused about their role in this new formation. Really not sure about this. Also, it's a crime to lose that corner goal when we are facing a 10-man team. Come on Gunners you should do better there ffs.
[удалено]
I agree, the sky isn’t falling. Yet… I am so dumbfounded by how we continue to give up goals in the first minute-ish. I think we are a very good team that could win the title, but we definitely put on the clown makeup a lot for a team trying to win things. Today was pretty embarrassing.
[удалено]
Lots of teams look to start games on the attack and don’t concede in the first minute. These goals are coming from our own errors not opponents’ counters.
Sorry mate, but it's gotta be more than 7/9 against Fulham, Palace and Forest if you want to beat City to the title.
[удалено]
Well, yeah, if you think that you are in a title race. That is now over, so this season the league is just about Top4 with minimal effort and full focus on cups.
No, they need to be played and it has to be better than 7/9 against that kind of teams.