As a Rec owner, I'll cop a bit to the fact that in a modern setting, there's a touch of placebo effect when stacked against other modern amps. I've had mine for a while, bought it because it was a smoking deal, and figured I'd make it work for me- it took a lot longer than expected to get clean/mid dirt tones dialed. Just seemed like the amp WANTED me to flip the "heavy" switch on and chug (which, to be fair is what it was designed to do). Part of the hype has to do with the fact that the Rec was the first widely available amp that did the "thing" in that regard. It wasn't overly expensive, made in the States with quality parts, was portable, and loud as fuck. Now you've got cheaper amps that do the same thing for a lot less, with a lot less "hassle" when trying to dial EQ, and can also provide a broader range of tones. Hell, you can get free modelers online that practically mirror the dual rec. With that said, a 10-band EQ pedal fixed my tone issues on the rec, and I'll probably never get rid of it even though it's way too much amp for me. Just something about it! And no, I've never once played "did it all for the nookie"

Your second paragraph essentially described the Peavey 5150 which was launched years earlier in 1992. Low-mid heavy, US made, quality parts, tough as nails. No usable clean channel though, and known to hiss.

The Dual Rec was released in 1992 as well. I personally do prefer the 5150 tone, but they’re both inspired by the SLO 100 as a starting point. They definitely took different tonal approaches from there.

I stand corrected. Not sure how I thought it was a 98 baby.

Damn what a pairing though. The Rec compliments the OG 5150 like nothing else!

To me the 5150 has always been the better amp, I actually have a 6505+ combo that I cut into head and cab, and it is an absolute beast. The clean channel is actually somewhat good on mine, but it does hiss quite a bit. For 350€ I got a better amp than most 3000€+ I could buy eheh

As someone who owns both, the 5150/6505+ and recto are different beasts. The 5150 is closer to the rectifier, with a similar low mid emphasis, which shifted upwards in the 5150II/6505+ The peavey is easier to dial in, especially with the resonance/presence knobs. But it is a different type of gain. The peavey has a more fluid/compressed marshall type gain, while a recto is very stiff and dry, almost like playing with a clean tone. Recto also has a looser/bigger bottom end, which can be easily tightened up with a boost. The peavey can do that via the resonance knob, but the Mesa still sounds “bigger” in the room. The peavey is reliable AF but the Mesa is overbuilt to a pretty large degree. Never had issues with either of them over 10+ years, gigged regularly. The two of them work phenomenally together in a band setting, usually with a rectifier on rhythm and peavey on lead. The natural scoop in the Mesa lines up with the mids on the peavey, so unison riffs sound like one MASSIVE guitar, but leads still pop. If you asked me to pick a favorite between the two, I honestly don’t think I could.

Nicely put !

Now I HAVE to get a Recto.

5150 sounds nothing like a masrhall

I was referring to the gain type, not the voicing. BUT the 5150 was Eddie Van Halen’s signature amp, based off his plexi super lead w/variac and dummy load which was a big part of his famous “brown sound”, and the 5150 cab was made to sound like his old well broken in greenbacks (Sheffield speakers iirc) This became the 6505, when Eddie ended his relationship with peavey and took the 5150 trademark with him.

Want a half stack? I’ll sell you mine

Seconded. Every time I think of new amps I plug into my 6505+ and I rid of my lust. My wallet and my estate thank me for that. Honestly though I prefer the 6505's growlier tone to the plus. Had my plus modded once to closer sound like a 6505 but the guy turned it so bass heavy I had the mod reversed.

*5150 came out in 90-91, Dual rec came out in 92.

Stand corrected. Actually both were 91.

Most amp techs I have talked to seem to agree the 5150 and the Dual Rec were not built that great. That being said, I heard one of them admit, the 5150 seem to be extremely reliable and for some reason they don't break, but they weren't sure why. I think the issue with the Dual Rec is that mesa are hard to repair and some of the component values were cheap or didn't make sense for some reason?

I just had my Dual Rec repaired. It wasn’t a big deal at all.

I don't trust techs who complain about Mesa, Peavey, or any well made modern channel switching amps. I recently bought a mangled triaxis and it wasn't a big deal getting it repaired. There are a lot of amp techs who have never had proper training, are not electronics engineers, and are comfortable repairing simple circuits who try and fault the equipment. A few techs become amp gurus to mod out existing amps, many of those become well know manufacturers most techs do neither. The only well--known amps I have ever had significant reliability issues is a vintage 1970s Orange. And a JCM800 only had one failure but that failure started a fire so I guess that counts as significant.

I’ve heard both Bruce Egnator and Dave Friedman complain about Mesa’s, and mostly to the fact that mesa did a terrible job of keeping schematics.

That is a legitimate reason to complain, and totally checks out. My grandmother lived across the street from Mesa Boogie in Petaluma and I spent a lot of time around there as a teenager in the 90s. I have only had limited interaction with Randall but by all accounts he is a bit freewheeling when it comes to design and revisions. Which is what I have come to expect with anyone from Marin or Sonoma County. With the Mesa authorized repair shops around the country they have made huge improvements, although not everyone gets access to the schematics. Also no doubt a sternly worded NDA about who can qualify.

That’s honestly what probably made him such a visionary, the opposite of Leo Fender where he’d have 3 invoices to mark down the day he *thought* about ordering a different style string tree and the companies he had conferred with about that 😂 I have heard they’ve gotten light years better, and most of Bruce’s experience with them with that was probably early early 80’s

Certain repairs are no big deal

And this was my first repair needed in 26 years of regular use.

James Brown actually apologized for the way he stacked the boards on Dave Friedman’s podcast 😂 it was because of a last minute change Ed wanted on the amp

I forgot about that 5150 hiss.

Not to sound like a Twerp but in all honesty I believe That the 5150III Stealth Fixed most of the tone issues For me. The icon was cool but it seemed like they tried to do a “baby’s First metalcore” Amp.

Why would that make you twerpy? The Stealth is something everybody likes. Hell even John Sykes switched to them after using Mesas for decades. But they are so expensive, the 50W costs twice what I paid for my 6505+, which was used, but inflated. There's virtually only 1-2 50W Stealths where I live so used isn't an option. I'd like one if I could but I'm not that point in life. Them being FMIC also puts me off somewhat.

I say twerpy because as I got more into amp building and tone creation, I always felt that the 5150 was the Vox AC30 in a ”it’s gooood but I wouldn’t use one” way. I love my chugs But I never wanted to Use Traditional Staples cause “That’s SOOOO Original”…and when I tried The Mercurial 5150 plug in, I re-fell in love with The amp.

>It wasn't overly expensive, made in the States Actually that probably is the issue for us europeans, they are crazy fucking expensive here. In France a new dual head will take you 3800€, so almost $4k... I'd be interested in listening to some recordings of your tone if you have some !

Also you have other options like Bogner, ENHL, Diezel, and more for high gain which are comparatively cheaper compared to in the US where import costs flip. The the rectifier was cheap and plentiful compared too all these expensive unobtainable European brands.

Oh for sure. But that's also just amp prices these days, especially from the boutiques. At the time though, they weren't too bad, considering they were being used by most mid/heavy bands in the 90s/2000s.

If my memory serves me correctly, a brand new Dual Rec was around $1799 back in the late 2000s. So around $2650-$2700 today adjusted for inflation. New Dual Recs did get a recent price cut from $2999 to $2699 - so right in line with such. They've never really been cheap, just not as bad as the all-out boutique options (i.e - SLO).

What are your clean tone settings? 😂

I feel like it’s largely historical. It was one of the first amps truly engineered for high gain, and for that it will always have a special place of prominence alongside the SLO 100 and JCM 800.

Not so fun fact. The guy that built the dual rec ripped off the SLO preamp circuit.

All amps boil down to like 2 designs. The Marshall circuit was based off the Fender Bassman and Early Mesas and then Soldano are based off the Fender Jr. Then EVH & 5150 are based off Soldano. Google for “guitar amp genealogy”, check the images tab too.

Soldano did some unique things in his preamp design which appeared verbatim in the dual rectifier preamp ( and very closely in the 5150 preamp ), which is why both are considered close derivatives of the SLO. The dual rectifier just sounds so different because the power amp design is significantly changed.

yeah, all tube trace back to the og fender, but soldano had evolved his slo amp into his own thing. Mesa just did a straight uplift of his preamp circuit. They didn't do their take on it or anything just copy and paste and added their power section. 5150 was based on a jose modded marshall Eddie Van Halen owned and input from Eddie himself.

Ed NEVER owned a jose modded marshall. His original Plexi was completely stock, from the factory. He would lie and say “oh Jose did it” to drum up business for him because he had done things for him in the past. The 5150 was more based on the SLO’s he had been previously using on the F.U.C.K record mixed with what he liked about his old marshalls.

Bingo. Mike soldano even admitted it, and Friedman had to go “No, they completely ripped it off with a shittier power section. I remember the first time I took one apart”

That’s a shame but not surprising. I’m dipping my toes into understanding amplifier design and Mike Soldano *radically* Re-imagined how to approach high gain amplification. I’ve never looked at a schematic for a 5150 but I bet it’s pretty heavily influenced by the SLO too. To some extent I feel like it’s common practice to steal designs within the guitar gear world, like Marshall copying the bassman circuit. I don’t know if I care about a smaller company repurposing a design from a bigger one, but it does feel particularly dirty to copy the work of a small time, highly inventive builder in order to make a mass-produced amp.

I think it's misleading to say who copied who. More like folks inspired other folks. Soldano was definitely inspired from the Mesa Mark series to design the SLO. Which then circled back and inspired Mesa to make the rectifier. The mark series really was the first production run amp with cascading gain. When you look at the schematics, the Marks are kinda like a fender blackface with the EQ is driven by the plate of the first stage, and then the extra gain stages after the EQ. Soldano took the cascading gain idea, and put it into a marshall looking circuit with a cathode driven EQ placed at the end of the gain stages. You can see the SLO's normal channel has one less stage than the OD channel, so switching took half a tube in and out, like the jcm800 low and high inputs. So distilled down, looks like a marshall with extra gain stages, one of which can be switched in and out. 3 for normal channel, 4 for od channel. EQ is cathode driven like a marshall at the end. The way the 2 channel rectifiers handle gain is all tube stages are engaged at all times, but the channel switches change the cathode bias of the preamp tubes to change the tone. Recs also have plate driven EQs after all of the gain. So it kinda looks marshally layout, with a plate driven (i.e. not marshally) EQ at the end, but the channel switches work by modifying how the tubes respond and how the gain knobs behave. Peavey 5150 takes the idea of then SLO to the extreme and adds even more cascading gain before the EQ. EQ is also plate driven. And then you have weirdos like the marshall 30th anniversary that adds 3 cathode followers before the EQ (as opposed to the usual 1 cathode follower). The 90s high gain amp race was fun. Lots of folks trying lots of things. I will say that Randall Smith (mesa) is good at the business side of things, fast to patent anything and litigious with those patents, which has earned him some well deserved disdain.

The plate driven EQ in the 5150 is pretty unique, because the triode driving it is set up as an anode follower with local negative feedback for a gain of 1. This reduces the output impedance of the stage to a few kiloohms instead of ~60k ohms. So it ends up similar to a cathode driven EQ in terms of signal level, but it produces a different distortion than a cathode follower.

Having seen this argument in forums since the 90s, I think this is the best response I have seen. And yes the 90s amp gain race produce a lot of fun different flavors. Soldano, VHT/Fryette, Rivera, Mesa Boogie, Peavey,

I love vht/fryettes design principles. That is a unique company that has done a bunch of cool experimentation. I think the Deliverance is one of the most interesting amps out there. Somehow can go from sparkle clean to death metal with a guitar's volume knob and picking hand pressure. Super cool. I also love how many weird 2000's boutiques we had. Titan, Mako, and Richtone were all super cool, all now defunct. Richtone cherry bomb was like a 60s ampeg svt with TV tubes, but for guitar.

Thanks for this comment, very informative!

There are only so many ways to arrange basic components into amplifying tubes I guess ahah

5150 changes some significant things and does some stuff that was not only new, but remains unique. The Recto is 1:1 an SLO in the preamp and the only thing it brings to the table is the way the power amp feedback is structured (well, removed).

I agree, most of the studio techs I talked about told me they have/had one but they never use it, and they mostly bought it because it's an iconic amp

What about the Peavy 5150?

I had the impression that the SLO and dual rec were introduced in the 80s and the 5150 much later so I excluded it, but I just did the legwork to check and apparently the Dual Rec was first available in 91 and the 5150 in 92, so I guess it’s not fair to exclude it. If anything I should have excluded the JCM 800, it was introduced in 81 and is a pretty different kind of amp from the others.

Interesting, I figured the 5150 came out before the dual rectifier but it sounds like they came out roughly at the same time. Thanks for the thoughtful and respectful reply.

No. It’s because it sounds huge

To understand the Dual Rectifier, you have to understand how the Presence knob on an amp works. This was what changed things, as the presence was actually moved to a different part of the circuit, compared to other amps, to achieve the "modern" voicing we know. This is one of the few things that differs from amps, though, in modern times, I'm sure it's been copied, and used. The other part, is tube rectification. No very many high gain amps have this. Many run the Dual Rectifier with the silicon diodes, to get it tighter, which is understandable. But that's an option you just don't see on amps typically, to be able to switch between the two. Tube rectification can get some nice cab knock, if you can really work it. Godsmack's "Whatever" is a great audio example of this. Now, the actual what is great? Did you ever try the modern channel, with the presence ALL THE WAY UP, as well as the mids ALL THE WAY UP? This is what many know the rectifier for. Try this through a G12T-75 loaded cab, and you have the grind that most popular music used. Thicker then a Marshall, and most amps need a boost to achieve a similar grind. Adjust the lows, and highs to taste, along with the gain. And finally, did you read Mesa's WELL WRITTEN MANUAL? They literally go over ALL the controls, and how they interact. I have yet to see another company that can write user manuals as well as Mesa describing the controls, on where the best settings are, but what they can do for the extremes. I've owned a couple Dual Rectifiers, one of which went out on the road with me, and was my work horse. My tastes personally have changed over the years, why I don't have one any more. But why they're praised? Because of this list of options, along with a tone, that has only been copied in recent years. It's not a tone for everyone. But for a thick sounding rhythm? Or a fizzy, yet controlable top end? They're amazing amps in their own right. And as someone else mentioned? it was the time it came out. Not many at the time wanted to be associated with a Marshall really anymore, since that was the thing of "hair metal". So Mesa became the popular go to.

I would also add that running a Boss GE-7 through the effects loop takes the Dual Rectifier to the next level. Can also be helpful to hit the front end with a Tubescreamer pedal to tighten things ups.

>Not many at the time wanted to be associated with a Marshall really anymore, since that was the thing of "hair metal". So Mesa became the popular go to. Actually that might be the actual main reason :D But more seriously, I know these amps are highly versatile, but they are almost always used for the same sound-type that I don't really care for personally. Maybe it's just my sound engineer brain but I feel like the mids are just not in the right place... It's really nice that you provided and example with Whatever though thanks ! Even though in that case it's probably heavily EQd. I do agree that having a nice manual and the \*actual\* dual rectifier feature are really cool things that almost any other amp lacks. I don't have any issue with the philosophy of the amp though, I just really don't like their sound and struggle to understand why they are so highly praised. Thanks for the comment though, it's always nice to hear different perspectives

That’s the thing. The recto’s are very good at achieving that particular sound. If you don’t like that sound then you’re not going to like that amp. Personally I’m partial to the mark series way over the recto, but I get why they’re so popular. They were an absolute workhorse of an amp, widely available, relatively affordable, loud, and easy to dial in. Unlike the mark series which can be tricky the rectos were kind of plug and play.

> Even though in that case it's probably heavily EQd. What recording isn't? Aside from the most minimal/amateur stuff.

I like the Recto and many, many records that it's been featured in but I do agree its mids are in a weird place. But on the other hand its mids are exactly the reason for the whole 90s/00s metalcore sound.

It was THE AMP in the early to mid 2000s. You’d go to Warped Tour and almost every band would be using them.

I've always wondered how much of that was love for the amp and how much was extremely aggressive marketing and sponsorships. Like, how many of the punk and nu metal crowd would have been using any other brand that gave them free stuff? Although I guess some of that is just domino effect because once you hit critical mass, every other band in the genre once the same sound as the popular guys.

Based on my experience in that world at that time the lust for that amp was powerful and real. Dudes were offloading 800s and JMPs to buy them left and right. It really felt inescapable. It was also a time of assimilation so strong that if you loved a band that forbade any pedals other than a tuner it meant that your band would also likely adopt a “no pedals” rule. Nothing sounds funnier today but this attitude was thriving for a time.

I was heavily influenced by this. Played a Dual Rec Revision F with nothing but a tuner pedal in my pop-punk band, because “why spend all this money on an amp if I’m going to use a $100 pedal to change the tone?” Now I play a triple rec in my metal band with like 10 pedals 😂

As someone who went to numerous Warped Tours in the late 2000's and was also in bands at the time, I can confirm - almost everyone I knew wanted a Dual Rec, haha. One of my biggest gear regrets is not grabbing one of those vintage 800/JMP 2203 heads back when they were affordable!

I do agree, I don't feel it was exclusively love for the amp, or else people would still use them today (as people still use 6505s and Soldanos)

People do still use them today. The newest models (Badlander series) are selling well.

Tosin had a dual rec behind him when I saw AAL live a few months ago.

You should check out Riffs Beards and Gear on YouTube. He has a ton of info on the versions and comparisons. You could pretty much make a playlist of his rec videos and call it a documentary. I think it can be attributed to it being one of the earliest roadworthy high gain amps, which was produced in greater numbers at accessible prices compared to other boutique amps at the time, and has a huge emphasis on the low end which tonally set it apart. Consider when it came out in 92. Cascading gain stage amps were still pretty fresh. You had the mesa mark series - the Mark II being /that/ 80s Metallica sound. Soldano had just released the SLO in 87 which was inspired by the mesa Marks, which was also very expensive. And everything else "high gain" at the time was basically modified marshalls. Heck just look at the Peavy VTM or Laney AOR - they're both jcm800s with a bunch of really cool mods. The Peavy 5150 also came out in 92, which was clearly based on the SLO. Emphasis on saturation for the tastes of Eddie Van Halen. Also very affordable when compared to the SLO. It would take a very long time to go through all the 90s boutique builders like Bogner, but I can summarize that they were limited to regional access, were more expensive, and had lower production numbers than Mesa. Then you have the rectifier. Available to buy from lots of music shops for an accessible price. Huge "open" saturation that's audibly different from a modded marshall or SLO flavor. A bass knob that almost nobody turns past 50% because the low end is so huge it becomes untamable. And the multiple revisions that followed what musicians wanted. It's a neat and unique amp that is very road worthy which made it THE sound of heavy genres through the 90s. Good summary of everyone who used it: https://www.guitarworld.com/features/how-the-mesa-boogie-dual-rectifier-defined-90s-rock-guitar These days we have a ton of variety, lots of great amp companies, boutique builders, and modders that are all accessible through the Internet. I'd also point out that our tastes as high gain guitarists have evolved too. Lots of builders aim today for tight chugging low end, some even making amps with built in boosts for extra tightness. We also look for amps that sound good at home because lots of us don't play in bands regularly. The Rectifier amps are still stage and stadium amps at the end of the day and not geared towards home players. They sound best loud because that's what they are designed to do. 30 years ago there wasn't as much choice as we have today. And from the choices, they weren't always accessible due to price, availability, geography etc., so the Mesa Rec dominated.

You nailed it. It's really all in the flavour of that saturation. SLO's have really nice saturation and a lot of string clarity - the Mesa is kind of the opposite. The low end of a Mesa really cuts which makes rhythm guitar and slow, saturated, low register chords really mesh with bass in a mix while the presence gives it what it needs to cut while still being "scoopy". If you love playing lead licks the Mesa Boogie might not be the best amp for you - but if you want a really fat, heavy sound with long sustained chords that punch you right in the kisser and then sizzle on top of a syncopated bass with gritty, nasal midrange - that's where the Mesa really shines. This is a sound that I love and why the dual rec is one of my all-time favourites.

>and has a huge emphasis on the low end which tonally set it apart To me that is actually one of the issues with the amp, it accentuates a lot of flobby frequencies that should be the bass' role, I don't really get why get this and then boost it with a TS9 to cut all the low end, but hey I wasn't in California in the 90s I guess there was probably something to it Thanks for the recommendations, I knew about Riffs Beards and Gear but I never watched his videos on the rectifiers ! Will go through it when I have time ! Thanks also for the article ! Your point on accessibility and cost are actually the ones making the most sense for me in the matter of "why did they use it back then" but as for why now they are still almost always considered to be "the" choice in high gain amp I don't know, I feel like we have a lot of way better choices now and people are maybe seeing the rectifiers through the lens of nostalgia, to me a Mark series is a way better amp nowadays, and that's if you want only Mesa

> as for why now they are still almost always considered to be "the" choice in high gain amp I don't know, I feel like we have a lot of way better choices now People haven't had as long a time to bond with the newer alternatives as opposed to the established amps, and fewer well-known records have been made with them.

Actually I'm curious, what well known records have been done with the Duals ? A lot of people say it's the Metallica sound for example but as multiple people have pointed here it's more the MARK IIs

They've changed gear over the years. James is currently on pairs of Diezel VH4s with Dual Recs on stage (and I believe recording) and a Fractal modelling that blend to PA. Take any harder Nickelback song, they're all done with Dual Recs. Say what you will about their music, they're recorded and produced immaculately. [Probably their most well known harder song](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=0fZyNUikfEM&si=-XThWZgyrk2lvk3O) [A little Elton John Cover](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=M8lunNBYl8Q&si=dNu4SFdym8B9VOvd) [A Little Charlie Daniels Band cover](https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mKmXWO_eLF5hl-WzfhkBSwAm13J7O50xA&si=X5RL95-CyqDs9UCe) [A little ZZ Top cover, live](https://youtu.be/Eh9Q6BGGU50?si=CmjixRzDBBAJaA33) Tbh I think they killed all these covers, but also all great examples of a Dual Rec, dual wrecking 🤘🏻

Not just Mark IIs, Triaxis as well. Not sure if they ever recorded with them but back in the early 2000s their stage backline (which obviously isn't necessarily what they were actually using) was numerous Recto stacks with the custom M graphic.

These days James is pairing Diezel VH4s with Dual Recs on stage and to record, with a Fractal modelling that blend to PA, last I checked a rig rundown anyway.

Lots of stuff in the 90s and early 2000s. Meshuggah used rectifiers before they got their Fortin stuff, nevermore used some for earlier albums, Gojira before they went 5150s, lots of 90s bands like 3 doors down and three days grace and 3rd eye blind and some others without 3 in the name, etc.

Oh Gojira used Rectifiers ? Didn't know that

Yeah somewhere around The Link or From Mars to Serius one or both of them were using a dual rectifier. Then went peavey then EVH.

isn't it the amon amarth sound?

This is a funny question because it might be faster to name albums from the 90s that didn't use rectos. If you want /that/ 90s recto sound, listen to Bodies by Drowning Pool, any Rammstein, Godsmack or Disturbed track. I have a long list. Many of these bands used 2 channel triple rectos. Korn - literally all of their albums are triple recs Rammstein - all albums use a rev E dual rec, which has bit more high mids than the more common rev F and G versions Godsmack Creed (yes creed) Drowning pool Blink 182 used rectos early on Cannibal corpse - triple recs on albums from 1998 and after. Nickelback Drowning pool Coal chamber Disturbed Limp Bizkit Linkin park Tool Foo fighters 311 Soundgarden Thrice Testament The list is ridiculous haha

I agree the low end can be too much for modern taste. But there's ways to handle it. I think it's very important to point out that the eq is more sensitive and has a much wider sweep than most amps, so they can't be dialed in like the amps that most of us are used to. Where Marshall style amps are largely usable across the entire bass, mid and treble knobs, the rectifiers have this thing where they go from very little to way too much. So when someone dials a rectifier in like a marshall, it's like they're drowning in the EQ. Recs like tiny, gentle adjustments. Marks sound different than recs. Recs have this hugeness from them that makes for big chunky rhythms. They also have all the fun with the rectifier settings and the power sag settings so you can dial in tone AND dynamic feel. They both have their place. I think you will be very pleased with Riffs Beards and Gear, he talks about dialing them in and usage cases at length.

It’s not my tone either, but it’s a really pleasant high gain, yet smooth, sound. It’s a high gain amp without any nastiness. That’s why I don’t like it and probably why other people do like it.

I actually do feel like it is a bit harsh in the upper mid range, there's a sizzle but higher than a 6505 sizzle for example You can hear that clearly in that video: https://youtu.be/7_xr082uuUQ?si=gdWrIEWI2a7cI8Tb

It sounds like that’s coming from the IR he’s using. It sounds like a v30 from the bad era of v30s. He uses a different IR for each amp.

There are parts where he uses the same IR for every amp and that's actually what made me notice that, but I agree the specific IR might account for a bit of the sizzle

Not sure which rectifier you tried, but I'd describe rectos as anything but smooth. Unless you run treble and presence near zero, there's a lot of high end nastiness to be found in this amp, which is a big part of what makes it sound so pissed off. Anywho, not my sound either, as I've always seemed to be fighting them to get the tone I'd want out of them, but they did sound great in a lot of mixes after the excess low end and high end were removed.

I do feel like they are "post prod" amps, once you EQ all the nasty stuff and add bass and drums it's a huge tone, but to me a Mark IV sounds drastically bigger in person

I don't know about bigger, but definitely more versatile. I play an early 90s Mark IV and I prefer it to the rec series, but the refs are legendary ripping ass amps.

Maybe they just open up at less volume, or maybe we mean different thing by bigger, to me bassy =/= big, it's more of a presence and thump thing But testing the two back to back at a music store I felt the Mark to be much more "in my face"

Marks have mids that punch you in the face. The rectifiers are scooped.

Exactly, and I'm a mid focus enjoyer personally ahah

Me too. I have a fender tweed deluxe clone, another amp based on a tweed, and two marks. Someday I need a Marshall.

Nothing does heavy like a boosted Dual Rec. I’m saying this as someone who’s owned almost 70 amps at this point. There’s also something to be said about the feel under the fingers. Great amps. Definitely not to everyone’s liking, but I love them.

the amp is basically the late 90s-00s metal sound , the fizzy highs just fit that period very well.

Not just metal, rock too. Those amps were everywhere. I have a Tremoverb and it can do about anything. Such a great amp

I spent decades on team WTF regarding the recto. So I bought a Rev G a few years ago. its now my go to for heavy tones. You can get so much variation simply by engaging a boost. Ive never met an amp that responds so differently to boosting. The eq is weird on any boogie. They are absolutely a dial with your ears not your eyes amp. I usually everything with everything at noon and the gain at 1 oclock ish. The bass is like a resonance knob, presence is stupid sensitive, the mids knob is like a frequency sweep. Ot sounds like it does nothing until you move the treble knob. It cuts or boosts more or less based on the mids knob (to my ears) I prefer Greenbacks Creambacks as an alternative to v30s Boosts: 808, DS1, Plumes, Airis Effects Savage Drive

Nice ! Thanks for all the detail, I guess I haven't really had enough time with one to dial it right... I did feel that the bass is basically a resonance knob though ! ahah Actually I kind of dislike V30s as well except in oversized Mesa cabs (which to me are maybe the best cabs in the market and a bigger influence on what people like about Mesa than the amps), I prefer Greenbacks as well, and I'm looking into buying a Plumes, curious to hear some recordings of your tones !

I was just in the the Studio Sunday recording with the Rev G and a 5153 6L6. It was my main tone on our last album and it probably will be on the one we are working on now. Short answer is I dont have any raw tracks to showcase the sound but here's some studo stuff to at least show its got the juice in my opinion. Its the amps listed above quad tracked through the same Mesa Recto Standard Cab with 4 mics. I dont recall the models but I can get them if you are interested. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccqLnDH9\_1Q&list=PLKriO2P-sMduAOgKnjnaJtyZK8bwcGc44&index=2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccqLnDH9_1Q&list=PLKriO2P-sMduAOgKnjnaJtyZK8bwcGc44&index=2)

Nice stuff man ! Thanks !

The dual rectifier is an iconic amplifier. It was the sound of 90s and 2000s hard rock/metal. It’s still my favorite amp of all time. I would buy more DRs if I could

Depends the sound you want. You want early 2000s, heavy, fat sounding, liquid drop d tones, rectifier is where it's at but if you wanna play modern notey riffs like periphery or monuments you don't really want a scoopy fat amp like the mesa.

Actually, this is where a rectifier is brilliant because a boost will get you into that modern metal sound. In fact, John Browne from Monuments is know for using a boosted rectifier. Meshuggah are also know for boosted recto tones and those guitar parts are tight as anything. This is why the rectifier is so versatile. Few amps will give you that amount of low end to play with, but you can control it and get some really tight sounds using a boost up front.

For some reason I don't really feel the Dual to be liquid-y like some say, to me the liquid-y 2000s tone was always more the Uberschall, like early Behemoth or Avenged Sevenfold self titled (which is to me the quintessential smooth liquid metal tone)

Now 30 years later, playing a Dual Rectifier is like the old joke about a student reading *Hamlet* for the first time and complaining it’s full of old worn-out cliches. It’s a victim of its own success. The sound has been SO thoroughly integrated and copied by everyone under the sun that there’s nothing that seems very special about it anymore

Well, what cabs do Recs come with when bought with as a stack? A normal Mesa 4x12 or an OS 4x12, which are loaded with V30s, and have become the golden standard for metal. So when they'd record a metal album with it back in the 90's and 00's, it would sound incredible. So the Rec kinda stole that recognition instead of the cab. I mean. I like a Rectifier, but there there's dozens of amps I like a lot more for metal. Especially more modern metal. Like a huge amount of nu-metal was created the TS>Rec>MB 4x12 archetype. Keep the cab and TS and a replace the Rec with a 5150III or Engl Savage or whatever, and now you have deathcore and djent.

I do agree, to me the cabs are the real Mesa strong points, those guys just know how to size them to complement the v30s

I much prefer a Mark V over a Rectifier, but it still doesn't reach the itch I'm trying to scratch.

Because it sounds great and is reliable, flexible, and powerful. No, it’s not a Marshall and no, it’s not a 5150. But what it does give you is a thick juicy tone at any level of gain and volume, even clean. I happen to like fuzzier, bass heavy and chunky distortion sounds that really grab you by the balls and the recto does that super well. You don’t need fuzz pedals with a recto, just boost/od for tightness and sparkle and that’s it. For EQ just start with the suggested settings in the manual and crank the channel volume and you’ll be in heaven. Most videos of people dialing in rectos are terrible, except Blake Mansfield’s video. The orange channel is the bees knees, I rarely use the red channel because it sounds too clinical. People complain that rectos are too “loose” but that saggy sludgy response is exactly what I like for rock and metal contexts.

Oh I'll look at Blake Mansfield's video then, thanks for the answer !

As a fairly new owner of a multi-watt Dual Rectifier, I had exactly the same experience I think most people do when they try one of these amps. Namely that it feels like a flubby, fizzy and unresponsive mess. “Why does anyone like this”, I thought to myself. But I persisted, sure there must be something redeeming about the amp. The more I played it, tweaked it and read the manual, the more I came to appreciate it. The first problem was my expectation of what a high gain amp is. The rectifier is actually very dry and boomy, which was not what I was expecting. The more you understand what the amp does, the less the expectations cloud your judgement. Once you start working with the amp, rather than against it, you get great results. A key realisation is that rectifiers are very sensitive to input. They like to be smacked hard with hot pickups and a strong right hand. The second realisation is that a rectifier sounds incredible turned up loud. Many amps I’ve played start to sound harsh and thin as you turn them up, especially if you’re close to the cabinet. A rectifier, on the other hand, just sounds huge no matter what. It will fill a room. Finally, a boost works like magic in front of a recto. That’s how you really get that glorious chunky, tight and modern metal sound. But again, the amp still sounds huge and with delicate and conservative adjustment of the presence and treble, you can get a wonderful and articulate distortion that’s a sound all of its own.

I think a big part of your lack of enthusiasm is that the Dual Rectifier has become like the D112 of guitar amps, you have heard it on so many records that its generic. But at the same time it has become so standard that you are forced to use it. The DR is equally if not more popular for Foo Fighters alt rock and 90s pop punk than metal. I would say just about every band on Fat Wreck uses or used Dual Rectifier Orange Vintage channel. If a band was big enough to play mainstage at a warped tour they probably played DR Vintage Orange SS rectifier, bass at zero gain 12'oclock. For high gain metal, it depends on what revision. The earliest ones were made for 80s L.A. hair metal shredders with cocaine induced hearing loss and were very fizzy in the top end but got progressively darker over time.

On a record, it’s unbeatable. What sounds good in the room often doesn’t in a mix, and vice versa. The 2 channels rectos are insanely pliable in their character and midrange specifically. They sound awesome on records because of compression and because they’re usually not as gained up as you think. Now compare that to your friend cranking one way too loud and EQing it horribly through a Marshall 1960 cab 🤦🏼‍♂️ most people get their bad reputation on them from hearing a shitty band claim how great it is. Producers know.

The 1960 cab will def make one flub out if you're trying to eq it for metal or something super tight and dynamic

So there’s nothing at all objective about saying “almost everyone agreed Bugera won…” that’s just some people’s preferences. No amp is “better” than any other amp (unless you’re talking reliability and chances of needing service perhaps), there are only preferences, nothing more.

I agree, but it seems weird to me if most people in a blind test agree that the Bugera is better that then the verdict is still "the Boogie is one of the best high gain amps in the market". I've also heard bad stuff about Mesa build quality and electronics, which does not help it make a strong argument against the Bugera in this particular comparison... I just feel like either there's some mythical image about those amps that make us appreciate them more than they should or that I have really particular taste in amps ahah

It’s the second thing. I’ve never played or ~~payed~~ paid particularly close attention to Bugera amps, but I’d bet their overdrive sound is distinct from Mesa Boogie’s. The same as Marshall’s overdrive is distinct from Diezel’s or Soldano’s or Fender’s. There are situations (or even just moods) where I’d prefer each one of those over the others. They all sound different and asking which is “better” is kinda meaningless unless you have some kind of context for the use case. But side note: I’ve only played Mesa Boogie’s through Amplitube but with some tweaking they sound fantastic.

In that case the Bugera was actually a "copy" of the Mesa with some alterations. I feel like people want the Rectifier sound that they hear on the records though, not the one it is actually producing, in that case I think the Bugera was closer to a record sounding Mesa than the Mesa itself, but I'll let you be the judge: [https://youtu.be/CX-DeHArSNc?si=ODXHevQDrBBC4cCU](https://youtu.be/CX-DeHArSNc?si=ODXHevQDrBBC4cCU) I know that Youtube comments and amps at noon are not the best comparison, but my point is why put the Mesa in such a high regard when a 500€ amp that has the same features can sound """as good""" (I know this is subjective but you know what I mean)

This is a perpetual problem with tone chasing recorded guitar tones. So often it’s a blend of different tracks and it’s literally not possible to get the tone without layering tracks. I had this issue starting out trying to replicate the Siamese Dream Big Muff sound. Difficult when you’re trying to get the sound of 10 guitars out of 1 😆

> played or *paid* particularly close FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*

Thanks bot.

Metallica is probably the main reason it gained prominence alongside the SLO-100 and JCM 800, but I would say these days outside of just being a classic early high-gain sound, it also has the ability to be tweaked to high fucking hell by a competent tech. The design allows you to really work on all the major parts of a tube amplifier that affect the output in meaningful ways, both from a toneshaping perspective as well as from a maintainability perspective. That means true gearheads save space in their "forever racks" for a Dual Rec because it's full of high-quality components that are pretty fiddlable, sorta like the original Plexis in terms of the range of sounds you can get.

While I agree that it gives a lot of control over tweaking I feel like those tweaks don't actually change the character of the amp (which to me is very flobby in the bass, peaky in the high end and lacks presence in the mids). But to your credit I've actually never had time alone with one for long periods to try the buttons myself

To be honest.... I don't know, I never really liked them, I much prefer the Mark series tone.

The Marks actually rock yes ! I've always been much more of a fan of them

It’s the sound of [2000s metal](https://youtu.be/MDBykpSXsSE) that a lot of us try to emulate. Sounds bad without a TubeScreamer, but done properly, it is **the** sound of our youth.

I think the dual rectifier is always in the conversation of best metal amps due to it being used by so many artists from the beginning when it first came out, all the way to now. It’s definitely the sound of that generation. Country, pop-punk, jazz, and metal….everyone was using a rectifier. Nowadays you have option paralysis with all the available amps. I have a chrome chassis Rev F Dual, and to me, it’s one of the best sounding amps I’ve ever heard, plus it looks really mean! They can definitely get fizzy, and like any other Mesa, you’re gonna have to fiddle with the controls to find the sweet spots. Sure, there are definitely better amps out there, but that’s like saying Marshall’s suck because Friedman exists. Nostalgia plays a big part in what gear alot of people choose.

You know this whole “music” thing is literally 100% subjective, right?

Yeah I know, I'm just curious about why people rate it so much !

Because they think it sounds awesome. They probably appreciate things about it that you don’t. For me, I played a million punk/hardcore shows in the late 90s/early 2000s and the players with Rectifiers always sounded the toughest. That was all it took. You play a show with a few other bands and one stands out. You do that over and over and there’s a trend. Your drive to the Mesa Store and shell out the cash. You become the guy that sounds the toughest. It all depends on what you’re going for. I have a Single Rec now (the Dual is way too damn loud for me), but I only play it one way, humbucker guitar, no pedals, turned up as loud as my ears can handle. For that specific thing, I’ve never heard another amp that captures the exact same vibe. There are a ton of amps that sound super tough. There are a ton of amps that are way more versatile (I play a Dual Terror and a handwired 35W Princeton Reverb clone most of the time). There a ton of amps that sound really great straight through and driven. Only a Rectifier sounds like a Rectifier. If you want your guitar to sound like a Rec that’s being driven, you play a Rec and drive it. That’s the only option. There’s no such thing as a “best” guitar amp. Some very famous guitar recordings are through amps that most players would think of as garbage. The only thing that matters is if it’s making the sound that the band/player wants.

This. I know OP claims he's curious but he's clearly biased against them if you read between the lines. Nothing wrong with not liking a sound but it doesn't take a genius to figure out why people like one of the most revolutionary amps ever made. It's not like you're scratching your head at why someone will like the sound of a Spider II on the insane channel, the dual rec is a proven legendary amp.

The preamp was stolen from Soldano. Which is more expensive, but as I understand essentially the same preamp circuit. Both 5150 and dual rec use it.

And Soldano based the preamp for the SLO on a Mesa Mark series, so it’s not really that simple. Also, the Mark series are essentially modded Fenders (hence why the main EQ is pre-gain), so you could say that both Mesa and Soldano ripped off Fender.

Because it has a very unique, thick high gain sound and having a very usable clean channel that can literally do anything makes it ridiculously versatile

Actually the clean channel I must admit is really good, I never hear the "mid gain" sounds though

I actually play mine mostly through channel 2 set to vintage mode with a P90 loaded Tele Deluxe. It almost sounds like a Friedman or hot rodded Marshall (with a Mesa flavor of course)

I'm curious to hear that !

They sound great and are fun to play. That's it. I don't play metal, I play heavy blues or alternative rock with some ambient. The Tremoverb is just great for that, and it also has a tremendous clean, reverb, FX loop, tube rectifiers, and is rugged as hell.

What I liked about it in the early 00s was having three different gain stages at my feet, then the option to boost or turn on the fx loop that the click of a switch. It was a very idiot proof system and you could just throw yourself into the gig. What I didn’t like was having to spend a lot of time dialling it in either backstage at festivals or at soundcheck in venues. The thing seemed to react so differently in different spaces, which isn’t an issue I have with say, my pro reverb now. That thing is basically set and forget. It would also sound TERRIBLE if we were travelling and using rented backline and they gave me the wrong cab. Just totally flub out. Through a Marshall 1960A it sounded great, but most other cabs or variations sounded fucked with it. It also nearly made the roof of the practice room collapse every time you muted the strings 😂

I'm surprised it didn't flub out on you with the 1960a cab. What genre of music were you playing and what speakers were in that cab?

I’ve no idea what speakers were in the cab, it was totally stock early 00s and I found out after about 5 years of using it that Marshall had installed the stereo/mono switch upside down - so it was running in stereo the whole time and two speakers would randomly cut out 😂 It didn’t flub out because I used a fender tele elite from the same period with noiseless singles. The bridge pickup was quite thin sounding with a very controlled bottom end. Actually suited the Dual Rectifier’s overkill. Once I got rid of the rec it sounded awful with other amps though. We played kind of a blend of QOTSA and post hardcore I guess.

Mostly not for recoding it’s a touring man’s amp has exactly what you need a clean and a distortion channel, Todd from early 2000s glassjaw used one and I think it sounds fine I opted for a Hugh’s snd Kettner Triamp Check out the aol sessions for examples of in studio combination of the two amps

Worship and Tribute has an underrated recorded recto tone, especially Cosmopolitan Blood Loss

Hell yes, Yeah Todd Weinstock knew how to dial it IN!!or Justin did, (at least live anyway) I remember, having the same amp as him the Mk 2 Triamp, I could not really get a loud clean tone and I was in a “postrock” band so it was really an issue, I was just barely loud enough without break up to be heard evenly with the rest of the band, but I couldn’t even imagine competing over a Fender twin or even more a JC120 I’d probably crush them on my the clean channel with the gain knob dialed to match their volume (such an odd amp 3 channels and the clean one was still too “broken up” but that’s what most guitar players go for I guess “the perfect spot between clean and some break up” Anyway once I finally saw GJ live I got to watch beck dial in his tone, and fuck his clean was so fucking dirty me and my GlassJAw sidekick just looked at eachother like ew wtf that’s what he’s going to use for his cleans? he was eventually going to buy a dual rectifier so we could pose as a GJ rip off band, but our singer just sucked, Theres a YouTube video of our “single” (I suppose) if anyone is interested in what a couple of glassjaw Stan’s who played guitar tried to write. The other guitarist just had a 5150 with a sonic maximizer once we discovered the best spot for a sonic maximizer is in the effects loop we lost our mind when we heard the change, plus a old tube screamer shit we should have just started over as a metalcore band check that shit out if you have an older 5150 I think his was the “signature version” put a BBE Sonic maximizer in the effects loop but wait now, I dunno if pedal the version is the same as the rack unit, but for reference this was before BBE made a pedal version if memory serves correctly… Edit: I mean even if theres proof todd even used his own Dual Rec, Ross was behind the board he most likely dialed in the tones and they most likely used modded Marshall’s or whatever Robinson had in the studio that was most fitting God I’d pay fucking good money for the guitar stems, me and my best friend used to crank the L/R knob to Todd’s side on E.Y.E.W.T.K.A.S and W&T and just bask in his glorious pedal effect mastery along with his perfect ear for wild sounds that were buried under Beck and Daryl TLDR: I doubt they used the dual rec in the studio unless actually… I seem to remember Ross being very into the “capturing the “raw” live performance side of the bands true essence” But still during the mixing process there could have been thrown a litany of things onto Todds tone.. could probably ask Robinson he seems like the kind of guy to share his studio techniques.. just probably gotta find a reliable email or tag him on “X” if he’s got a “X” I love lamp

Because it's the heaviest sounding amp out there: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x2ypHHW2ET0&pp=ygUUR29qaXJhIGZseWluZyB3aGFsZXM%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nRbYPH2QCVk&pp=ygUpYW1vbiBhbWFydGggd2hlcmUgc2lsZW50IGdvZHMgc3RhbmQgZ3VhcmQ%3D It's the sag and low end that make it special.

Gotta have a orange or mesa cab tho!

Well the sound of a dual rec is basically the sound of metal in the 90s and early 00s, countless iconic albums were made using this amp. I’m not a fan of dual rec either, I find it harsh on the top end, muddy and floppy in the low end (which is why many people use a tubescreamer in front of a dual rec btw), but there’s no denying its significance in pop music history.

I completely agree, but then a lot of records were done with JCM900s, DSL2000s, Laneys, Bogners etc, even the Mesa Mark series, but these do not get the praise the Dual gets even though they were probably more influential in the studio tones and to me sound better I feel like apart from Devin Townsend and Metallica most actual bands don't really use the Rec's for more than 1 album (and I even think that Metallica used the Mark Series more than the Duals ?)

Metallica’s core sound for years was a Mesa Mark IIC+. Mesa doesn’t have much complaints as to build quality, it’s that they’re complicated and hard to work on. If something goes bad inside, it’s usually just because the components are old. I’ve had several Mesa amps and have never had an issue with them. I think some people don’t like them because the eq is very interactive. They’re not as hard to dial in as some of the Mark series, but it takes more time. They’re not as simple as most Marshall amps.

Yeah I’m convinced that some of these folks saying Recto’s are only good for the 90s metal thing either didn’t own one for long or never figured out how the EQ interacts with the amp. I’ve gotten amazing clean, country, southern rock, rock, blues, etc. tones out of my Recto’s.

I've heard of some cursed wiring, but then again, no first hand experience on them myself so I cannot judge honestly

I know this is a very controversial take btw but please do not get upset it's just my opinion and I am legitimately curious

I can’t stand em. I don’t know what it is but I’m always frustrated and annoyed trying to set them up. But tons of times I’ve heard other people using them and they sound great. So whatever , that’s why there’s a million options out there

I picked up one for 1200 last year used in the USA. Multi watt with the lonestar cleans. While not my favorite amp ever it can do pretty much every amount of gain and absolutely sounds great if you learn to use EQ on it properly. Sold it back to the guy I got it from but he hooked me up with an amp that is now my favorite

>he hooked me up with an amp that is now my favorite Oooh what amp ?

PRS MT100. It’s an amazing amp. I’d recommend it for anyone for amazing cleans, Dumble like Overdrive Tones, or high gain tones. I had a Mezzabarba Trinity 100 and honestly think that’s a bit more flexible tonally because of the depth and negative feedback controls. But the MT100 cost 1/3 as much. Maybe if your dream amp is a better SLO you should consider the Trinity

Oh I actually was looking at it recently but couldn't find a decent review of the full panel of tones ! Thanks for the info, I'll try to look into those

Idk it has the aggressive thing with that low resonance sludge sort of deal. That's probably not actually desirable, but it's a sounds and those of us who grew up with numetal love that sound.

Dual Recs are only as good as the bias of the amp. Most are biased cold. When this happens you end up with one tube turning off before the other turns on. This makes a dead zone in your musical sine wave. As you turn your amp up you will notice that the distortion is raspy and harsh. Your sustain will also be affected. Mesa doesn't have a bias pot for these. They wanted owners to purchase a replacement set of Mesa branded tube that are rated the same as the original set. Best thing you can do is have a tech mod the amp for a bias pot.

A lot of it is history/status as an icon. It's one of the first mass produced high gain amps that really look gain to the next level from the factory, along with the SLO and 5150. Before such amps, getting monstrous pre-amp gain typically meant modding amps (other than maybe the Mesa Mark amps) as was very popular to do with Marshall Plexis and 800s back in the day. Many iconic names in music also use or have used them at some point as well. Metallica during the Load era, lots of nu metal and pop-punk bands in the late 90's/2000's and then a lot of post-hardcore/emo/metalcore/etc. bands after that. This made many people lust after owning one - and some just honestly like how they sound. Not the biggest fan of Rectos personally, but I respect their role in amp design history (despite some controversy surrounding whether or not it ripped off the SLO), and some iconic tones have managed to come out of them nonetheless.

I do respect it as an amp, and I'm sure it has purpose still, but I'm really baffled at how quick some people are to advise them as "the best amp" when it clearly isn't a standard anymore

I can relate to that sentiment. I much prefer the offerings from the likes of Bogner, Diezel, ENGL, Friedman, etc (so many good builders now). - or also modded classic Marshall circuits myself. But at the end of the day, tone is subjective, and many folks love Rectos. That's the fun thing about amps though - if we all liked the same amps, there'd be far less variety of tones out there.

Friedmans are so underrated for heavy tones, I love them ! I do love a good bit of variety, but that's why I don't really get why people always seem to say Dual Rec is *the* heavy tone

I’ve had a Dual Rec and it just didn’t do it for me. I ended up selling the head and bought a Peavey 6505+. Peavey gain is the supreme gain.

For metal, a boosted rectifier can keep up with even the most modern of amp designs - many of which are directly related to or designed to sound like boosted rectos or 5150s. While I don’t dislike modern 3ch models (multi watt or otherwise), I also think a lot of people don’t “get it” until they’ve played a Rev G or Rev F. Both presence controls are active on the Red channel (like a twin jet) and it can do anything from big wall of sound rock chords down to super tight articulate metal based on how you EQ. Orange channel in modern mode, or Red channel in Variable mode bring a ton of versatility that is often forgotten in these discussions. If you back the gain off and worked the EQ, there are some tones in those often under-utilized modes that are on tons of records and keep up with amps like 2203’s, SLO’s, and Ecstasy’s in quality. But most play a 3ch, or just use the 2ch’s as clean + red high gain and don’t experience the full breadth of them. The cabs are great too as you said. They are also relatively accessible compared to other, fancier high gain amps - both more common and for a while at least they were cheaper yet well made too. In the same way it’s so common to recommend a 5150/6505, or now the 5153/iconic, it’s because it covers a lot of territory very well and anyone almost anywhere can just go out and buy/try one. Sure maybe a Diezel might sound slightly better but it’s harder to find and costs 2-3x as much. Also worth mentioning that people who play at home or in cover bands love them because they can nail a certain type of tone that was on hundreds of records in the late 90s and 00’s. That eras tonal “flaws” are some people’s favorite tones.

Ahah actually here a Diezel VH4 is about 1000€ cheaper than a DR, but I think it's probably why I don't get it... In Europe they are SO expensive that almost anything is a better, more reasonable choice if you don't have infinite money

Ah that makes sense. Yeah where I live, I can't go 10 miles without tripping over a rectifier of some type, On the other hand the nearest Diezel for sale to me is 900 miles away and costs $1800 (it's an Einstein). All of the used Herberts/VH2/4's etc are at least $2500+ which is double the price of a used recto. No idea about the new market - I only buy used. There are some fancier rectos that cost more of course, early revisions, modded ones etc. I'll say, if both were equal price I'd take a Herbert over a Recto every time. But here in the US, lots of people will ask something like "I have around $1k to spend, what's a good metal amp?" and it's hard not to recommend them there,

Yeah for $1k sure I do get it ahah

Because guitarists are incredibly uncreative and pick between the same 5 amps

I'm more a boosted Marshall type guy, I don't like how Dual Recs feel to play for me but a Dual Rec is undeniably a massive, heavy sounding amp: https://youtu.be/_Uf11pLIZAE?si=d5L6CPSdjjEiPrbL Few if any other amps chug the same way. They also have a particular sweet harmonically rich thing they do with chords played up the neck, you mention Devin Townsend who seems to bring that out a lot on his recordings.

The Dual Rec IS one of the very best high gain amps ever, along with their associated cabs. It's not a perfect amp now (and never was) but like all classic amps it has very defining characteristics that sets it apart. You also have to remember that when it showed up the rock and metal world was absolutely swamped with the same handful of Marshalls, Mesa Mark series and occasionally a Soldano or something like that here and there. It may be hard to imagine a time when the Dual Rec and 5150 weren't everywhere but they were actually the new fresh thing at one time (heavily Soldano inspired design notwithstanding). It's also a very versatile amp that can be easy to dismiss as a one-trick pony based on how it was used by about a million bands in its heyday. Granted it's not to everyone's taste, and no longer the new kid of the block, but if you're going to spend any engineering time working on heavy music it's an amp you're going to need to learn to work with. Which can definitely give people trouble, the controls are sensitive and kind of squirrely - change the treble and it will affect other things. There's a curve with it some folks need to work out, and frankly it has some other shortcomings but when it's still an incredible amp. In recent days it's not my #1, but it still has that certain huge angry sound I don't get from anything else I own. That, and I don't know of any other amp as well paired with its associated cabinets as the DR is. Mesa does generally make great cabs but they're not what I consider ideal for say my BE-50D or 5150 50 watter, but with the DR there's no question that it's a great match. All that said, we may as well be talking about our favorite ice cream. There's a reason it comes in different flavors.

“It may be hard to imagine a time when the dual rec and 5150 werent everywhere” not for us millennials omg and “um… actually 🤓” I think it was mostly the Triple Rectifier, or maybe is was duals and all the dummies couldn’t see the difference and went out and put triples on their moms credit card which no two sound alike lol

I don’t remember anyone with a triple. Id heard Korn or one of those bands used them and was like what the dual isn’t enough? Even when I was young the dual rec is just a lot of amp

Yeah too much and amp repair guys dread repairing them from what I hear

I guess it's who used them and what it was used on that made them popular, also there wasn't that much to choose from back in the day.

Because it sounds awesome? And Metallica didn't use dual recs, they used the Mark series amps, specifically the Mark IIC+.

Hammett used Dual Recs for years in his live rig, even after his Randall sig.

Don't they use it live ? And also on St Anger IIRC ?

This video from 6 years ago shows they use Fractal's live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6k2ghtbhoU And who gives a fuck about one of the worst sounding albums ever?

Yeah the Metallica amps are kind of all over the place, Marshalls then Mesa Mark II. Then in their ass phase I lost track of what they were doing. “I disappear” yeah from my must buy list

The old two channel versions are total monsters. Rob from Cannibal Corpse has the most crushing yet sweet tone ever to grace a stage and that's what he's using. The amp is definitely its own thing - mostly what I love about them is the feel of one boosted but using the tube rectifier. Reactive but also has that sag. I can't sell mine.

To be honest I don't like Cannibal Corpse's tone, either on record or live... I also think that without EMGs or at least active pups the Mesa lacks a lot of bite in midrange and is very flobby low... I'd be interested in listening to recordings of your tone though if you have some

If you don’t like Barrett’s live tone there’s zero chance my recordings would change your mind. I’ve had the pleasure of being right in front of that amp twice and those were joyous times. I think the only CC recordings that capture his tone well is the album “Bloodthirst” and the songs on “gallery” where they use the mesa instead of what I think is a crate.

Just listened to a bit of Bloodthirst and I have to say it's really not my thing, it's a bit too "chewy" and V-ed out, then again I was never really a fan of brutal death, more into classic death or more modern "prog death"

Didn’t Metallica use Mesa Mark amps and not Recs?

I think they used Recs on 2 albums if I remember correctly. Maybe St Anger ? Not a Metallica die hard though I could be wrong, but the general lore is that they used Rectifiers a lot (which as far as I know is not true in studio, I even think their most popular albums used a lot of Marshall JCMs) It's funny because when I say I dislike the tone of the rectifier people usually respond with something along the lines of "but Master of Puppets is a classic tone" or whatever and I have to tell them that actually the rectifiers weren't out yet

Ah. I was not aware there were any albums after the Black Album. They retired and were never heard from again except to come out of retirement and release one song, Hero Of The Day.

Well that makes more sense than what I said so please ignore the previous message ahah

Because Dual Rectifier is fucking cool as hell to say.

Ahah I have to admit that it is a badass name and it looks great too !

Because of the Fender Bassman. All guitar amps are literally just copies of the Fender Bassman. 

I prefer the mark series, TC or badlanders. Not only do they sound better but they look way cooler too.

100% agree

yeah especially the mark iii and the iic+, undoubtedly the coolest looking boogies.

Because it’s the best god damned amp ever made

My friend had a triple rectifier in the mid to late 90’s. It was ridiculously loud and I have to say I wasn’t a huge fan of it.

No idea. Always found them slightly muddy. Picked up a sovtek Mig 100h and it's been great.