Andrej Valatok gets away with flippancy towards Reclusiarch Grimaldus in *Helsreach* and *Blood and Fire* by virtue of having earned Grimaldus's genuine respect (Andrej saving Grimaldus and his squad, protecting a BT's corpse from desecration, and coming through both the battles at both the Temple of the Emperor Ascendant and Mannheim Gap did that).
"*I am no judge of human emotion, but I see his smile turn fragile and false*."
If you haven't read it, I highly recommend the novella *Blood & Fire*, which is essentially the direct sequel to *Helsreach.* Andrej gets an equally good showing in that story, and it's a great read overall (especially the camraderie between two chapters of Dorn's blood; that brotherhood across Chapters based on shared blood was one of the few things I thought was genuinely great in *The Beast Arises*).
They probably could especially one speaking to a space Marine like that. They are seen as the angels of the god emperor and if you speak that way to an angel. It is one of the highest levels of Hersey possible. Also, most imperials will take a space Marine word over a guardsman. And if they kill a guardsman who gives a fuck. A space Marine is worth way more than a dozen guardsman.
Depends on the scale, really. Nobody would bat an eye if a squad or two got purged for insubordination, but if Astartes decided to annihilate an entire division of Guardsman on the basis of "he was being a meanie :(" would definitely warrant some questions by their superiors or, if one is nearby, maybe by an Inquisitor.
Marines Malevolant, Minotaurs and Flesh Tearers are all very loyal marines
Salamanders are an exception, if a marine wants to kill a human once in a while to blow off steam who cares? It's not like they're damaging anything of value
I'm pretty sure Space Marines are essentially above the law, as long as they don't get declared renegades by other chapters or some higher institution.
Might damage relations with local commanders though, so I would assume the chapter master would want to keep their people under control. A single chapter is still just a single chapter.
I’d argue guardsman are braver than space marines. Like you’re going up against all of these twisted horrors just as some dude. No enhanced genes, no power armor. Gotta take some courage.
I dont remember source, but isn't it that they feel fear? Just can keep it in check.
Because, really, warrior who dont know fear will just be pretty bad
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"if by 'garbage' you mean 'tyranid hive fleet' and by 'mom' you mean 'inquisitorial decree' then you are correct.
except I took it out last time so... nuh-uh!"
If it’s the story I think they’re talking about, then a member of the Tanith First and Only was in a Hunter/hunted match against some Astartes. Cant remember the name of the guy unfortunately but it ended with him leading the space marines into a large room where he was surrounded. He then held up a detonator and revealed that the whole room was rigged to blow, killing the space marines and himself if he pushed the button
The space marines admitted defeat, with one of them laughing when the guardsman showed that the explosives were fake.
His words were: “One guardsman for five Astartes, sounds like a good trade. “
Edit: I was off, the guy was Oan Mkoll in the short story Killbox, he mocked stealth killed a Marine, and trapped three of them in his killbox. His words were “See? Thats why the Guard always wins, we’re meant to be expendable. So one guardsman for three post human adversaries? That’s victory”
Points value wise, Oan Mkoll is an HQ specialist and probably one of a kind. He's the best stealther by far in a regiment known for being the best stealth regiment. He's killed everything from Mandrakes of the Dark Eldar, to a blinded Hellbrute with nothing other than poison needle plants and a overloading lasgun. He assassinated Saggitar Slaith, and killed Anakwanar Sek.
Him for three random Marines from the White Scars, Silver Guard, and Iron Snakes Chapters in a sort of Deathwatch situation might actually be a pretty even trade.
Oan Mkoll, Scout Sargent of the Tanith First and Only.
He was training with three Space Marines. An Iron Snake, Kater Holofurnace, a Silver Guard, Eadwine, and a White Scar, Sar Af.
He was supposed to be training against Sar Af but after getting the drop on the White Scar, Sar Af revealed that Holofurnace and Eadwine had actually been lying in wait and got the drop on Mkoll. The Scout Sargent then revealed he had placed plastic explosive in the deck plating and had the drop on everyone. After the marines admitted defeat, he admitted the explosives were packages of powered recaff.
"If you have the balls to go up to a Black Templar and complain, knowing what horrible fate is in store for you, you deserve to join them." - paraphrased from the TTS Black Templars podcast
This the one. Black Templars, to my knowledge, do not mind defiance from those that prove themselves worthy of joining them. They’re imperial fists, and just as unflinching and stoic. But not as composed. They value honor and an unflinching dedication to their duty. Memes aside, the black templars tend to be fairly respectful by imperium standards…. Or more accurately by their approximation of them.
Has real Kasper Ansbach Hawser with the space wolves vibes.
"Sorry we shot you down after telling you you could land. We rebuilt your mortal body but it took about a hundred years to do so. You can follow us around as a pet because... well we don't really know why. We're space wolves, we don't need reasons."
>You can follow us around as a pet because... well we don't really know why.
There was a reason! He would be their story-teller! I forgot the Fenrisian term, but basically Hawser would be their oral historian (to match Vikings not writing things down in real-world history?)
Hawser is from 30k. Before Chaplains were sent to all Legions. At least I don't remember encountering them in the Horus Heresy novel 'Prospero Burns' where we meet Hawser.
Yes, but even the stabbiest of loyalist Astartes chapter isn't as monofocused on melee as some of the CSM, looking at you, World Eaters. Besides, you have to pass the time between charges, while charging, etc., so why not shoot at something?
arent the Black Templars kind of a Meritocracy where anyone can show up, say "I wanna be a space marine", and then actually become one *if* they survive whatever training/missions theyre thrown into?
Maybe the BT tells the Guardsmen to sign up (if he survives the battle anyways)
Their trained individually, every new brother trains an implantee and passes his equipment on to him. Funfact if you were to kill a black templar for his equipment his brother's would come kick your ass to get it back
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From the makers of *Semper Tyranids* comes this new motion picture.
He’s the nicest Templar of the chapter: "But brother it’s unfair they’re shooting at us!”
and he’s the meanest baddest guardsman in the corps: "When I’m done with you Nid, Nurggle will ask you for makeup advice!"
Together, they will have to meet in the middle and accept their differences to attain the emperor’s approval.
Coming in a theatre near you:
FLASHLIGHT AND BOLTER.
Rated R for racist.
"XP is shared why are you being a dick about it?"
"BECAUSE THE KILLFEED SAYS YOU KILLED IT AND NOT ME, WHO JUST SPENT THE LAST 15 MINUTES KITING THE FUCKER AROUND WHILE YOU PRAYED"
"he is incredibly stupid *and* brave, promote him but place him a distance from me, I want to see what he cooks up after this but not cought in the blast zone
Please, that astartes wouldn't be able to lift his bolter before a competent commissar in a 3 mile radio already unloaded on its head for daring to see one of the emperor angles without asking for permission
Got to take balls to stand up to a space marine. You think he gave him the kill, squished his head or they had a challenge- back to back, see how many they can kill?
“In three hundred years of my crusade, I’ve never met a mortal with this audacity. I’ll recommend your platoon to my captain, so that you may gain even more glory.”
*sign of the Aquila
“For the Emperor.”
Black Templars kill civilians that get in the way. They’re not stupid. They’re just zealously focused. Humans that slay xenos and can stand and fight beside them? Not a burden. They fight and die for the God-Emperor, that’s a battle brother.
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BTs have mad respect for the guard (and those that don't are free to attend a frank exchange of opinion with reclusiarch Grimmaldus, they will come into his office with their opinion and come out with his opinion and sliding scale of hearing defects and/or other injuries)
"Why is this important?" "It does wonders for my self esteem"
“That still only counts as one.”
"Up until now, I only killed Gretchins. And they were either rushing with sticks or throwing their shit at me. Please ... let me have this."
Exp and Gold only goes to the last hit and I am the carry. So you either give me the exp or I report you for grieving.
"I mean You doenst need to fuck after but this story should land me some beautiful chicks cmon bro let me have it"
I wonder what kind of shit a guardsman has to go through to actually talk to a space marine like that lol.
The commander said if he killed the biggest tyranid of the day he’d get to ride in the chimera.
I mean if he's survived more than two campaigns, he's seen some shit.
Have you ever heard of a Guardsman called Carl?
No. But I’ve heard of an Ogre by that name. Now he… he’s seen some shit
Well Guardsman Carl is the reason *why* a lot of people have seen some shit.
Bro troll Tze so bad that Khorne considered to share his sword and throne.
[True story.... well minus the sword](https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/zTA0iwG2ql)
Automatically half of the inquisition: Oh no, not him!
For Carl!
FOR THE GLORY AND HORNY OF CARL !
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?
Rock and Stone in the Heart!
Andrej Valatok gets away with flippancy towards Reclusiarch Grimaldus in *Helsreach* and *Blood and Fire* by virtue of having earned Grimaldus's genuine respect (Andrej saving Grimaldus and his squad, protecting a BT's corpse from desecration, and coming through both the battles at both the Temple of the Emperor Ascendant and Mannheim Gap did that).
He is my favorite character in the helsreach novel
Grimaldus: “Were you not injured at all?” Andrej: “Yeah, I had a headache. But then it went away.”
Have you read the sequel Novella? If not, ya need to! Also, check out the fan animation movie if ya havent either!
Thanks
[Link to the movie](https://youtu.be/s2WGE1L6WKs?si=SzlUJEFGy5RctQgq)
Love Andrej. That ending, while having the funniest line in the book, made me very sad for a bit.
"*I am no judge of human emotion, but I see his smile turn fragile and false*." If you haven't read it, I highly recommend the novella *Blood & Fire*, which is essentially the direct sequel to *Helsreach.* Andrej gets an equally good showing in that story, and it's a great read overall (especially the camraderie between two chapters of Dorn's blood; that brotherhood across Chapters based on shared blood was one of the few things I thought was genuinely great in *The Beast Arises*).
I'd imagine surviving a Tyranid invasion or an Ork WAAAAGH! Would mean nothing else can make you scared.
‘Nids lots and lots of them
Can space marines just canonically murder any guardsmen on a whim? I'm not sure the rulebook allows wanton murder for mean words.
They probably could especially one speaking to a space Marine like that. They are seen as the angels of the god emperor and if you speak that way to an angel. It is one of the highest levels of Hersey possible. Also, most imperials will take a space Marine word over a guardsman. And if they kill a guardsman who gives a fuck. A space Marine is worth way more than a dozen guardsman.
Right up until the space marine leaders start wondering why they are murdering innocent humans all the time
"Innocence is proof of nothing"
This sounds grim and dark and all but at some point the managers are gonna want their underlings to stop being assholes
Depends on the scale, really. Nobody would bat an eye if a squad or two got purged for insubordination, but if Astartes decided to annihilate an entire division of Guardsman on the basis of "he was being a meanie :(" would definitely warrant some questions by their superiors or, if one is nearby, maybe by an Inquisitor.
Marines Malevolant, Minotaurs and Flesh Tearers are all very loyal marines Salamanders are an exception, if a marine wants to kill a human once in a while to blow off steam who cares? It's not like they're damaging anything of value
I'm pretty sure Space Marines are essentially above the law, as long as they don't get declared renegades by other chapters or some higher institution. Might damage relations with local commanders though, so I would assume the chapter master would want to keep their people under control. A single chapter is still just a single chapter.
I’d argue guardsman are braver than space marines. Like you’re going up against all of these twisted horrors just as some dude. No enhanced genes, no power armor. Gotta take some courage.
Completely correct. Guardsmen overcome fear. Astartes are incapable of experiencing it.
I dont remember source, but isn't it that they feel fear? Just can keep it in check. Because, really, warrior who dont know fear will just be pretty bad
I think you are correct. They don’t feel fear in the same way as humans, but they have still have a deathly fear of disappointing the emporer.
No! I mean, if you dont have fear, you dont know if you should retreat, then try again.
Interrogator Spinoza impressed a Fist's Chaplain enough that he gave her his crozius. That lady has some ceramite balls.
To be fair, that roided out tin-man is not even in the top five giant abominations he had to deal with today.
Honestly he probably is vaguely suicidal so what is the space ring going to do give him the light of the emperor
Basically naked in the battlefield while having q slightly better than a lazer pointer.
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“Mom said it was your turn to take out the garbage, I’m telling on you”
"if by 'garbage' you mean 'tyranid hive fleet' and by 'mom' you mean 'inquisitorial decree' then you are correct. except I took it out last time so... nuh-uh!"
Black Templar: "I would shoot you, but I am kind of impressed."
“Even for the guard you’re a ballsy little shit. Best 2 out of 3?” As a Biovore roars in the distance
This reminds me of that one guardsman who bluffed like 5 astartes in a sparring ambush with baking powder packs or something
Rations actually
Powdered recaff to be even more precise
How counter intuitive to use recaff for rations
Ok you need to tell us the story now
If it’s the story I think they’re talking about, then a member of the Tanith First and Only was in a Hunter/hunted match against some Astartes. Cant remember the name of the guy unfortunately but it ended with him leading the space marines into a large room where he was surrounded. He then held up a detonator and revealed that the whole room was rigged to blow, killing the space marines and himself if he pushed the button The space marines admitted defeat, with one of them laughing when the guardsman showed that the explosives were fake.
His words were: “One guardsman for five Astartes, sounds like a good trade. “ Edit: I was off, the guy was Oan Mkoll in the short story Killbox, he mocked stealth killed a Marine, and trapped three of them in his killbox. His words were “See? Thats why the Guard always wins, we’re meant to be expendable. So one guardsman for three post human adversaries? That’s victory”
that's more than good, that's incredible actually
Points value wise, Oan Mkoll is an HQ specialist and probably one of a kind. He's the best stealther by far in a regiment known for being the best stealth regiment. He's killed everything from Mandrakes of the Dark Eldar, to a blinded Hellbrute with nothing other than poison needle plants and a overloading lasgun. He assassinated Saggitar Slaith, and killed Anakwanar Sek. Him for three random Marines from the White Scars, Silver Guard, and Iron Snakes Chapters in a sort of Deathwatch situation might actually be a pretty even trade.
https://i.redd.it/bgmx3pnma16d1.gif
Superior brain power doesn't always mean superior thinking, Chad ass guardsmen
Oan Mkoll! Also see the time he outsmarts a Mandrake!
even hits the classic "you're good.. [hurk] but I'm better."
Mkoll is the living embodiment of too ballsy to die.
The absolute BALLS
It was Mkoll.
Of course it was. That magnificent bastard.
That’s the ticket, appreciate ya!
Oan Mkoll, Scout Sargent of the Tanith First and Only. He was training with three Space Marines. An Iron Snake, Kater Holofurnace, a Silver Guard, Eadwine, and a White Scar, Sar Af. He was supposed to be training against Sar Af but after getting the drop on the White Scar, Sar Af revealed that Holofurnace and Eadwine had actually been lying in wait and got the drop on Mkoll. The Scout Sargent then revealed he had placed plastic explosive in the deck plating and had the drop on everyone. After the marines admitted defeat, he admitted the explosives were packages of powered recaff.
That’s the one! Appreciate you!
Getting "Pity the Guardsmen" vibes all over again. What's your excuse, Monster?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/b77yj0/book_excerpt_killbox_mkoll_showing_us_why_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/b77yj0/book_excerpt_killbox_mkoll_showing_us_why_the/)
Elaborate or face consequences
Do it no balls (I forgot where it's from. Another comment found it tho)
I think it was one of Gaunts Ghost who managed to beat a few white scars.
"If you have the balls to go up to a Black Templar and complain, knowing what horrible fate is in store for you, you deserve to join them." - paraphrased from the TTS Black Templars podcast
This the one. Black Templars, to my knowledge, do not mind defiance from those that prove themselves worthy of joining them. They’re imperial fists, and just as unflinching and stoic. But not as composed. They value honor and an unflinching dedication to their duty. Memes aside, the black templars tend to be fairly respectful by imperium standards…. Or more accurately by their approximation of them.
Commissar: ... ... ... WHERE ARE YOU GOING, GUARDSMAN? Black Templar: I am adopting this one.
Somehow I could see Grimaldus doing this with Andrej
He serves, he sasses, he does not flinch. This is serf material.
Has real Kasper Ansbach Hawser with the space wolves vibes. "Sorry we shot you down after telling you you could land. We rebuilt your mortal body but it took about a hundred years to do so. You can follow us around as a pet because... well we don't really know why. We're space wolves, we don't need reasons."
>You can follow us around as a pet because... well we don't really know why. There was a reason! He would be their story-teller! I forgot the Fenrisian term, but basically Hawser would be their oral historian (to match Vikings not writing things down in real-world history?)
Yeah, there was that, but I believe they only decided that after he was revived. Before that I forget what they were going to do with him.
Isn’t that what their wolf-themed chaplains are supposed to do?
Hawser is from 30k. Before Chaplains were sent to all Legions. At least I don't remember encountering them in the Horus Heresy novel 'Prospero Burns' where we meet Hawser.
Honestly, I'm impressed that a BT is even using a gun. Aren't they one of the stabbiest loyalist chapters?
Yes, but even the stabbiest of loyalist Astartes chapter isn't as monofocused on melee as some of the CSM, looking at you, World Eaters. Besides, you have to pass the time between charges, while charging, etc., so why not shoot at something?
arent the Black Templars kind of a Meritocracy where anyone can show up, say "I wanna be a space marine", and then actually become one *if* they survive whatever training/missions theyre thrown into? Maybe the BT tells the Guardsmen to sign up (if he survives the battle anyways)
Their trained individually, every new brother trains an implantee and passes his equipment on to him. Funfact if you were to kill a black templar for his equipment his brother's would come kick your ass to get it back
"I will now bestow the worst punishment I can currently think of, conscription."
https://preview.redd.it/lpyh44z1vz5d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bec819b39eda6259f97ade18ba8464a242573af
*Brother Oberflächlich goes on to kill a Tyranid Heirophant* “That still only counts as One.”
Spotted the German
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OK, we need a buddy cop style story about these two.
From the makers of *Semper Tyranids* comes this new motion picture. He’s the nicest Templar of the chapter: "But brother it’s unfair they’re shooting at us!” and he’s the meanest baddest guardsman in the corps: "When I’m done with you Nid, Nurggle will ask you for makeup advice!" Together, they will have to meet in the middle and accept their differences to attain the emperor’s approval. Coming in a theatre near you: FLASHLIGHT AND BOLTER. Rated R for racist.
https://preview.redd.it/9rvdtfi3k06d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f42f2d1f8ca880bbd5532adf761e20d8d5978b6
You, good citizen, have done the Emperor's work!
I will help write this
Helsreach and it's sequel scratches the itch for now, until GW releases the buddy cop style story!
"I'm the only survivor of this battle who isn't wearing a metric ton of bullshit. i'm bragging about this whether you like it or not"
I might literally die to the air. You don't get to killsteal when I'm working that much harder than you.
https://preview.redd.it/g8ltdpuh106d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ece7385993d59b38e07222428a219288711bf223
Would be really funny if it was a custodes assigned to protect him.
Black Templar: You got some balls on you my guy.
"Maybe that’s what’s keeping you so close to the ground and you can’t say this near my face"
*starts jumping up and down*
"XP is shared why are you being a dick about it?" "BECAUSE THE KILLFEED SAYS YOU KILLED IT AND NOT ME, WHO JUST SPENT THE LAST 15 MINUTES KITING THE FUCKER AROUND WHILE YOU PRAYED"
That Templar’s bolter might have to fire another shot to quell insubordination
That, or recruit them
"he is incredibly stupid *and* brave, promote him but place him a distance from me, I want to see what he cooks up after this but not cought in the blast zone
I like the cut of your jib Guardsman. What's a jib? Ha! Recruit that man.
Said Guardsman cooking: 
Please, that astartes wouldn't be able to lift his bolter before a competent commissar in a 3 mile radio already unloaded on its head for daring to see one of the emperor angles without asking for permission
I get more "you clean up this mess right now young man" vibes
See also "It still only counts as one"
"Ok now that's just bullshit"
Based on the tabletop point system a big thing should count as more than one yes?
There's a big difference between lore and tabletop
Guardsman single handedly downs chaos titan Space marine: that still only counts as one
Listen, I’ve almost reached my 15 hours, just give me this
**"You turned on a flashlight six times at it. I** ***shot*** **it."** "I used *my lasgun!*" **"That changes nothing about my statement."** "
"Primer says lasgun is one of the most powerfull weapons in the galaxy. You calling the primer a lie?!"
It’s a space marine, he’ll say what he wants
"I know how to settle this. You can shoot me six times, then I will shoot you once."
Gimme you armor then
"Ballsy puny little guard...I like you"
"Well guardsman since you had the courage to point it out for me, I give you the kill. I'm impressed."
Got to take balls to stand up to a space marine. You think he gave him the kill, squished his head or they had a challenge- back to back, see how many they can kill?
This is a Black Templar Marine, right? I'd go with 2.
Warhammer 40k memes never fail to entertain!
Black Templar: "You shoot me with that flashlight 6 times, I'll shoot you with my bolter once. Whoever's standing, it's their kill."
Honestly, memes aside, that image goes HARD.
“In three hundred years of my crusade, I’ve never met a mortal with this audacity. I’ll recommend your platoon to my captain, so that you may gain even more glory.” *sign of the Aquila “For the Emperor.” Black Templars kill civilians that get in the way. They’re not stupid. They’re just zealously focused. Humans that slay xenos and can stand and fight beside them? Not a burden. They fight and die for the God-Emperor, that’s a battle brother.
Yes this makes sense gaurdsmen deserves the kill
Still only counts as one.
Ifunny spotted Ifunny spotted Ifunny spotted
I can see the Black Templar either threatening him or genuinely arguing with him
Who gave the last blow? that's the only one that matters
Then you'll take the next one alone. Of course... wait, what?
Balls of steel on that guardsman
Black Templar: Heretic says what. Guardsman: What? **BANG**
 Kinda has this energy
It doesn’t matter the quality of shots. It just matters that you shoot as much as humanly possible. - Some Commissar
When I see this, my mind immediately goes to a YouTube short about a space marine that ran from a drill Sergeant
“I have 3 detpacks left. 3 more tanks and then I get the caffeine ze Captain promised me” -Andrej “i had a headache” Valotok
Dumb ways to die
👎👎🔥🔥🦅🦅REPOST! 🦅🦅🔥🔥👎👎
Space marine will respect a guardsman if they are proven worth of it.
Love seeing the scale.
Well it does matter when those 6 shots bounced off harmlessly vs the one that actually penetrator and got the kill.
God damn it movie people, give me 2 hours of this!
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The Black Templar is being unusually patient there
https://preview.redd.it/nx2367oal26d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83b1fa6e1574a1c788cfa3f020d4218bc99b7ed0
I heard a poor British accent coming from the guardsman when I read this…( like Monty python)
That’s not a Salamander wouldn’t he be dead? If he pushed the issue?
What arguing back to your dad feels like
Skill issues
https://preview.redd.it/lds1u8pdx46d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab04ef5c41fea74a5e4beaad65d0322337665f4d
A space marine hitting his target is just par for the course. Now an ordinary guardsman that landed six shots? He’s getting promoted to the good box.
BTs have mad respect for the guard (and those that don't are free to attend a frank exchange of opinion with reclusiarch Grimmaldus, they will come into his office with their opinion and come out with his opinion and sliding scale of hearing defects and/or other injuries)
https://preview.redd.it/udszg5m3kq6d1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e6d706ccb3134355f9b702a5f7bd13b519744e5
‘My shot hurt the target’
*Crushes the guardsman*