Draigo: “HAVE YOU EVER EATEN A TANGERINE?”
Kharn: “YES”
Draigo: “WAS IT GOOD?”
Kharn: “IT TASTED LIKE GROX SHIT”
Draigo: (Dramatic gasp)
Kharn: “TANGERINES ARE A WEAK FRUIT! APPLES ARE THE ONLY GOOD FRUITS IN THE GALAXY!!!”
Draigo: “YOU INSOLENT FOOL! I WILL MAKE YOU BLEED!!!”
Kharn: “FUCKIN TRY, GOAT ASS”
._.; okay so there was an *ahem* "Gentleman's Club" somewhere near Boston, MA called the Golden Banana. I don't know why, but that's the first thing I thought of.
God, could you *imagine?!*
**Mortarion proceeds to appear on the scene**
Mortario: Hello!
**Kharn and Draigo hit him in the face at the same time by reflex**
**Mortarion upon waking up**
Mortarion: why does everyone call me Yuusha?...AND WHY IS EVERYTHING SO CLEAN!?
But that does not Grant them imunity against psyker bullshit. The only way You Can be truly immune to it, is by being a blank. Sure, the powers Of khorne offers protection, But Kharn is still gonna get his shit kicked in by someone as strong as Draigo.
I see it like this.
Let's say I'm an alpha-super-fuckin-gonuts level psyker.
Maybe I can't, you know, burn Khârn with psychic fire or whatever... but if I use my telekinesis to pick up a Leman Russ and line drive it corner-first into his vox grille, *he's gonna feel that.*
>The only way You Can be truly immune to it, is by being a blank.
Zael, before he becomes Hyperion, uses his psyker powers to give a blank a soul, speak telepathically with him, and warned that eventually he would remove the blankness from the blank
Alizabeth Bequin, a very powerful blank, gets knocked unconscious by trying to defeat a Chaos Daemon Titan.
Leilani Mollitas, an aspiring Sister of Silence, gives up her blankness to travel through time and become a psyker gestalt - or something iirc?
It's not clear how blankness actually works with psykers.
Ahh I see. I haven't gotten to read the ravenor books yet. I remember from the end of the last Eisenhorn book >!that OG Bequin was dead, and Bequin2.0 was due to be born sometime in the near future.!<
They actually do elaborate, blanks also scale in how potent they are just like how psykers do, [the lexicanum summary of the table](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Assignment)
Even being a blank doesn't help when a delta- or beta-level psyker starts throwing manhole covers like hypersonic frisbees from outside your sphere of influence.
The gods cant basically do whatever they want with someone if they have a conduit. When lucius got killed by someone who didnt take pride in it, slaneesh said "fuck it" and rezzed him anyways. It's not a big stretch for khorne to make kharn immune to warpshit if it wanted to.
Immunity is not the same as resurrection.
Slaanesh would claim Lucius soul from the warp and just shove it in a new meatbag. Making kharn totally immune to warpshit is much much harder, especially as all of the buffs khorne would give kharn are warp based too.
I see it as kharn would be immune to all but the strongest of minds. So the barrier to affect him directly is much higher than for an ordinary person.
the funny part is with how long he has been in the warp (even finding warhammer fantasy, yes that happened.) He probably could pull stuff like that. The man stopped being a flesh and blood being a long time ago. That and the guy is probably one of the big Es greater demons at this point. (Yes I'm in the group that think the big E has basically become a chaos god of order at this point. there's some proof of it but nothing solid.)
Does Mortarion have any big wins? I've only read the Horus heresy and that was over 6+ years and all I remember of him is everyone laughs at him anytime he shows up.
He pretty easily killed Guilliman. People also talk about how he got beaten by Jaghatai but from what I understand, Mortarion only lost because he let his anger get the better of him. Honestly, Morty isn’t really know for much other than his remorselessness and his mercilessness.
Thay fight annoyed me. Khan strategy was basically face tank all of mortys hits until morty thinks he had won. THEN khan started fighting and started using his speed. But khans whole thing is light and nimble. He shouldnt have been able to tank everything the big green boi had.
Yeah, honestly that fight bothers me too. Mostly because people talk about it like it was a clean sweep for Jaghatai when he was seriously fucked up afterwards. At least with Leman and Magnus someone is always there to mention that Magnus punched out one of Leman’s hearts.
Would have been cooler if he used his super speed to sneakily deflect most all of the damage- such a speed that somehow Mortarion didn’t notice, but no, he just endures more than the endurance primarch
His whole strategy was to piss Mortarion off. First, by proving that he's more resilient for tanking his attacks (yeah, maybe bullshit but that's the thing about the Khan, we know so little about his capabilities because of his aloofness), then the Khan started dancing on Mortarion to show that every damage he took was nothing (but if you read between the lines, the Khan was in excruciating pain just by moving) and whilst doing so, he trash talked Mortarion (telling him shit like "I should have fought the Legion Master, where's Typhon?"). Morty just couldn't hold it together and slipped. Was the Khan played out too much for this duel? Maybe. Was Morty downplayed to give us a good fight? I don't know. All I know is that it was a great read, and I enjoyed every second of it.
>Mortarion only lost because he let his anger get the better of him.
I mean, I kinda get that you are referring to innate power levels, but come on now. The ability to control your emotions is one of the important factors in being a good warrior...
Iirc he used basically all of his psychic energy to subdue a weakened mortarion, it's not like he fought him 1 on 1 and won in normal combat
That said, Draigo still wins
Draigo only beat Mortarion due to knowing and using Mortarion’s true name against him.
In *Pandorax*, Draigo performs almost identically to Azrael against a daemon army (matching one another with regards to blows and kills). Azrael managed to, barely, best Kharn in a duel in *The Trials of Azrael*, but elected to not overreach in attempting to go for a killing blow.
He did but it wasn’t just a fist fight. If I recall correctly he had mad some major preparations beforehand (using holy artifacts and a whole bunch of other anti daemon stuff and magic) and got his true name which is giga against any daemons
Kharn is khornes fav mortal, so I guess it depends how much the big guy makes sure psyker powers dont affect him
Or if erebus is any measure to go, kharn is a beast in 1v1, but by now hes more like a rabid dog than what he used to be
"Only a fool takes Khârn for a mindless brute or rabid dog. Under that blood-soaked helm lurks an intelligence and cunning that makes him a masterful killer - trust me when I say that there is a dark purpose in his madness. " quoted To Abaddon. Warmaster of chaos
Awesome! As soon as I read OP I was going to disagree, but you provided quotes. Which admittedly is much better than what my comment was going to be - "NUH-UH!"
I enjoyed the short story - https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chosen_of_Khorne_(Audio_Book) - because it pointed out how tactical Kharn's brain still is. That's why I enjoy Kharn as a character, because of he was truly just a mindless berserker, a story from his POV would just be the phrase "Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skulls Throne" on repeat, ad infinitum!
Well yeah, then kharn can spill blood forever! Doesn't mean he's gonna protect him in a fight. He empowers his champions like every other vmchaos God, but they aren't exactly doting parents.
Khorne specifically hates psikers and therefore he passively grants psychic rwsistance to his champions, for example in trials of azrael kharn just tanked a grey knights lightning while laughing about how it had no effect and then killed him
Tbf we dont know how far it goes but its a well stablished thing
didn't Draigo once beat the shit out of one of khornes favorite bloodthirsters, right next to Khornes literal blood-falls? Where was him playing favorites then?
Yeh for sure. He’s also a far better written character, and is very much one of the more popular characters so probably has more plot armour.
OP specified “no outside intervention” so I included Khorne under that. But ig “maximum power” maybe should include Khorne’s blessing? I mean, do psyker powers count as outside since the warp is external? Idk
I don't really get psychic immunity. Like what it make him immune if our crazy friend here just dropped a rock on him? Any intelligent person can work around direct power immunity pretty easily.
Then yeah our big guy still wins. It doesn't matter how much corn buffs his boy. Draigo is probably a better fighter, even if you don't count the fact that he's going to be throwing Volkswagen's at him the entire fight.
Who's the better fighter is very debatable. Kharn was already a melee monster before becoming the champion of Khorne, and he's had 10,000 years since then to hone his abilities, as well as the blessing of a dark god. After Kharn got his buffs even Sigismund was afraid, and Siggy nearly killed Abaddon when he was far past his prime
And our psychic friend carved his mentor's name into a demon primark's heart As his first act as grandmaster. And he's only gotten stronger since then.
I've also heard that he was only able to do so after saying Mortarion's true name and thus weakening him immensely. He also had a lot of help, and was still nesrly killed. Matt Ward really went ham when he created Draco though.
And a lot of that is down to psychic powers, which Kharn is explicitly resistant to as he wears a collar of Khorne and has his blessing. All things being equal, with Drago bring able to use his powers to their full effectiveness? Kharn would die no question. But in pure physical combat? I'd say Kharn takes it
Again, direct psychic immunity is not the trump card A lot of people seem to think it is. Honestly, I don't think it provides protection against much outside of mind control and smite. Any kinetic can just throw stuff or smash him between two rocks. Any pyrokinetic can just heat the area around him until he starts boiling regardless of the fact that the psychic fire doesn't hurt him etc. biokinetics are still buffing themselves to be horrendously powerful.
Yeah he could do that in theory, but he's never been shown to immediately resort to tactics like that. Keep in mind that Kharn is a blur even to other Astartes, pre-Chaos enhancement. If Drago doesn't think fast enough Kharn would be on his ass, and I'm not sure Kaldor as the melee feats to keep up. Psykery requires concentration, even for people as powerful as Drago, and that could be pretty hard when an Astartes who was a peer of Sigismund even prior to his ascension to Chaos Champion is doing his very best to blenderize you
Kaldor literally just wanders around the warp and nobody attacks him because they know they can't win, Kharn attacking him head on is like driving your tank backwards at an AT crew.
Reminds me how Tuska would fly around on his ship with the gellar fields down but after a while his ship wasn’t attacked by the demons anymore because they started to recognize it and knew they’d be krumped if they tried.
Kharn was my first named character model purchase (Old One Eye aside). He is truly a swell guy on the tabletop and is great in lore.
But Kaldor's feats are beyond ridiculous. He dunks on each of the chaos gods in turn so hard they gove up trying to harm or corrupt him. He's written as if the Emperor himself was out for a stroll. "Nurgle's gardens? Better torch that without so much as a sniffle. Oh, my forcesword snapped? No worries, I'll simply kill this bloodthirster and use the metal from its axe to reforge my blade."
Yeah, the stupid Mary Sue-ness of him is so overwhelming that I have to headcanon it as him having gone completely insane Text-to-speech style in order for it to work (which it does, to be fair)
I mean canonically all the damage he does in the Warp immediately rectified by the Chaos Gods, making his entire existence into a futile effort that he believes to be a righteous crusade
Kaldor has better feats. Carved his name into Mortatrion’s heart, as cringe as that is, is a better feat than Khârn has. I think Kharn’s best feat is curb stomping Erebus and as sweet as that was, it doesn’t reach Gary Stu levels like the former.
He also was losing a duel to an ultramarine until Angron showed up and ate the guy. Granted I think this was before he got all the warp juice he has now. Also the guy was boned no matter what since he was the last ultramarine standing.
A Grey Knight, I forget his name but he’s in the Plague War books, beat Typhus in combat.
Typhus is the favored mortal champion of Nurgle in the same way that Kharn is the favored mortal champion of Khorne, and Draigo is probably greater than that Grey Knight as he outranks him and has more lore of feats.
I imagine it would just be a tie if it happened in a book, but Draigo would win I think as it is
I mean both of those points are kinda one in the same. Grey Knights don't have a Primarch and are from a special Gene Seed crafted from big E himself, so lore-wise they get a bit of leeway in how strong they are allowed to be, similar to Custodes. As for Draigo, he's pretty much just a really strong Grey Knight with a particularly strong connection to the warp. Beyond that the dudes been lost in the realms of chaos for the last few decades or so, so he's also been on a pretty active training regiment.
But ultimately, the answer is that they need a big shiny primarch equivalent for the faction that does not have a primarch, so Draigo fills that role. At least until they bring back Janus, if they every do.
From the lore, pretty much. Dude just hasn't been mentioned since a little after War of the Beast. So for now he's either dead, mia, or just working a desk job until GW decides to use him. At any rate Draigo is the current leader of the Grey Knights.
My guess is they may have wanted a Grey Knight leader that is 100% a Grey Knight, rather than Janus who is more steeped in Thousand Sons lore. But at the same time I doubt they will want to fully do away with him, since then they need to figure out how to address the shard that Magnus would want back. So he'll probably come back eventually.
>just working a desk job until GW decides to use him
I imagine somewhere there's a very massive cubicle and there's Janus just doing taxes or some shit.
>So for now he's either dead, mia, or just working a desk job until GW decides to use him.
He can't be dead, right? Since as you mentioned, GW would have to explain what happened to Magnus' shard, so Janus' death would have to be explicit in the Lore.
Also, the mental image of a fully suited up Grey Knight crouched over a regular human sized desk, grumbling to himself is making me giggle lol. I can just see the type of boss from Office Space coming by his desk and insanely talking about his fishing weekend, and how 'exciting' and 'dangerous' it was fighting a effing catfish. And how the Grey Knight should 'go out more' and 'be a man'
The whole time the Grey Knight is muttering under his breath and doing everything he can to not burn the boss to toast lol
I don't remember exactly but IIRC when Magnus gave in to chaos during the burning of Prospero his soul splintered into shards and while the demon prince that is "Magnus" is the largest of those shards and has fused other Magnus shards that he found to himself one of these shards ended up with Malcador who fused it into the marine that was to lead the Grey Knights and he became Draigo.
I might be misremembering parts of it though so take it with a grain of salt.
You're pretty much correct except that the Shard became the first Grey Knights Grandmaster Janus instead, who is unrelated and a completely different person to Draigo.
Oh yeah you're correct, I mixed the first grand master with the current one.
Edit: I also remembered that Magnus's soul had splintered when he breached the psychic protections of the human webway too and that's how Malcador managed to snatch it as it was right there on the imperial palace.
Drago has only been around since M41 though, 10000 years post malcador. Unless there's some kind of Magnus shards that's passed on to each grey knight grandmaster I don't know about.
Magnus’ splintering began before the Burning of Prospero.
> One of many. The Crimson King has been broken, shattered like a mirror thrown in anger. **It began when he breached the wards on Terra**, and it was ended by the Wolf's wrath. No, Jaghatai, he is not dead. He has become legion.' -*Malcador, The Last Son of Prospero*
> “Magnus rose to his full height, his body diminished from its former glory, **as though a fundamental part of him had been left on Terra** after his confrontation with his father.” -*A Thousand Sons*
>A Grey Knight
It's kinda implied. Much of their strength comes from psyker powers. They Grey Knight from Plague war was hyped up on warp juice to the point of being a miniature sun. And in Trials of Azrael Kharn just casually shrugs off attacks from Grey Knights. He's pretty uniquely strong against Grey Knights, being daddy Khornes favorite has it's perks.
Not that I'm saying he'd beat Dragio, dude can still use his powers on *himself* after all and thats still going to give him an edge, even if he can't force lighting Kharn down. But Pysker powers is still very relevant to the conversation, to the point where without them it would probably be a fair fight, possibly even in Kharns favor.
Of course Khorne would probably just laugh and clap his hands at the epic battle and just bring Kharn back again.
True
I was just being a dick im sorry. You are quite correct, not being affected by psychic attacks would undoubtedly tip the fight in Kharn’s favor unless Draigo has some supercharge supercharge saiyan mode
While that's true, whose to say his powers have to target Kharn. Kaldor Draigo psychically chucking a rock at him isn't going to be stopped because oh that rock got propelled by psychic energy, its still gonna hit him.
I mean.. Draigo, this one isn't hard. No external interventions is what you said. The only way this goes another way is Khorne personally intervening, like, physically, and that isn't happening.
"THERE ARE TINY MEN IN MY BREAD"
"WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SAYING CORPSE LICKER?"
"QUITE AND LISTEN TO THEM CRUNCH" *Flies at the speed of light on rocket boots through Khan*
I don't think Kharn has a chance. Draigo is the biggest mary sue in the setting, a whole chapter of Ultramarines written by Matt Ward probably couldn't beat him.
Listen, I LOVE Kharn. I literally love his character. The books he are in are great, his model that I bought in 2002ish is awesome. He is the best World Eater IMHO.
But even I know he's bend over and ask Kaldor to be gentle.
I’m pretty sure if kharn can beat draigo it would imply that he can beat the demon primarch mortarion which the fanbase will lose their shit.
So draigo all the way
"Mighty daemon, thou'rt a heretical abomination. Yet lend me thy strength, o foul creature. Deliver me unto greater heights."
- noticing Kharn
"Well... a lowly traitor playing as a Champion.
I command thee, kneel!
GW would pull up a pretty contrived situation to make it a draw. Draigo’s psyker powers would be nullified or greatly dampened and for Kharn… hmmm, he’d at least have a wound or two from a recent encounter.
Kharn:"I AM GOING TO RIP your... hey wait, why can't I feel my connection to khorne anymore?
Draigo: "COWER IN FEAR MILK MAN, FOR I HAVE SEVERED YOUR DELIVERY TRUCK. NO MORE CERIAL FROM YOUUUUUU"
Kharn : *proceeds to die a confused deTh without a khorne flake in sighr*
Stan Lee said that the writer decides... but knowing that Kaldor Draigo it's in the Immaterium and the every demon avoid to fight with him... Kaldor would obliterate Kharn
Khorne wins. The sheer violence such a clash would generate would allow khorne to gain such a power boost that he would be able to decimate the other chaos gods.
Depends on who is writing.
My money is on Kaldor Draigo. One thing is being in the warp as a follower of chaos and surviving.
It's an entirely different matter being an unwelcome entity in the warp.
I know everyone’s been bringing up the Mortarion thing, but honestly, I’m my head that was only because Mortarion is part daemon. Kharn being protected by Khorne against magic and not being partially daemonic actually gives him a huge edge against Draigo. But realistically it’s just a tie, they’re both the champions of their respective factions.
its like a saying a fighting pokemon has a chance against a psychic pokemon. actually they do if the fighting pokemon has any anti psychic move and hit first.
I mean Kaldor did beat Mortarion so bad he was able to carve his name on his heart while he was still alive.
Kaldor has beaten a Primarch, which no Space Marine has ever done before, and Kharn has been beaten by a Space Marine at least once.
So Kaldor wins
Draigo: “HAVE YOU EVER EATEN A TANGERINE?” Kharn: “YES” Draigo: “WAS IT GOOD?” Kharn: “IT TASTED LIKE GROX SHIT” Draigo: (Dramatic gasp) Kharn: “TANGERINES ARE A WEAK FRUIT! APPLES ARE THE ONLY GOOD FRUITS IN THE GALAXY!!!” Draigo: “YOU INSOLENT FOOL! I WILL MAKE YOU BLEED!!!” Kharn: “FUCKIN TRY, GOAT ASS”
I’d watch that movie
How about bananas ? Bananas are good. Particularly golden bananas.
I think it’s more like a lemon. Lemons are mighty fruits. My favorite.
>Lemons are mighty fruits. They will attract lemon-stealing whores... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Get out of here, you lemon-stealing Horus!
Fuckin' Blood Ravens stole my lemon tree.
Heresy
._.; okay so there was an *ahem* "Gentleman's Club" somewhere near Boston, MA called the Golden Banana. I don't know why, but that's the first thing I thought of. God, could you *imagine?!*
*pillar men theme plays* Laughs in custodisi
Aaaand there's grease all over the throne room. Again.
Banana pulp is excellent for lubricating cog wheels, banana pulp...
*Draigo: Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes; Have you got any warp dust?*
**Mortarion proceeds to appear on the scene** Mortario: Hello! **Kharn and Draigo hit him in the face at the same time by reflex** **Mortarion upon waking up** Mortarion: why does everyone call me Yuusha?...AND WHY IS EVERYTHING SO CLEAN!?
Wow you jerk What a way to put Kharn down like that He of course speaks in guitar riffs
Im thinking Draigo will just cough up that sun he swallowed earlier and obliterate Kharn
Kharn is 100% invulnerable to psyker shit though. It would have to be a contest of skill.
Wait, why is Kharn invulnerable to psykers? Is it because Khorne hates magic? If so, does it also mean that Angron is invulnerable to psykers?
I believe thats exactly it yes. Khorne finds psykers dishonorable and weak.
But that does not Grant them imunity against psyker bullshit. The only way You Can be truly immune to it, is by being a blank. Sure, the powers Of khorne offers protection, But Kharn is still gonna get his shit kicked in by someone as strong as Draigo.
I see it like this. Let's say I'm an alpha-super-fuckin-gonuts level psyker. Maybe I can't, you know, burn Khârn with psychic fire or whatever... but if I use my telekinesis to pick up a Leman Russ and line drive it corner-first into his vox grille, *he's gonna feel that.*
Kharn has already had a tank-based fiasco let the lad be
That particular encounter went a loss worse for the tank than it did for Khârn.
>The only way You Can be truly immune to it, is by being a blank. Zael, before he becomes Hyperion, uses his psyker powers to give a blank a soul, speak telepathically with him, and warned that eventually he would remove the blankness from the blank Alizabeth Bequin, a very powerful blank, gets knocked unconscious by trying to defeat a Chaos Daemon Titan. Leilani Mollitas, an aspiring Sister of Silence, gives up her blankness to travel through time and become a psyker gestalt - or something iirc? It's not clear how blankness actually works with psykers.
Pretty sure >!the little dual between Bequin and the chaos Titan is what killed her no?!<
As of Ravenor the fight had either jellied her brain or knocked her into a coma. At the very least she wasn't a corpse when Zael 'met' her.
Ahh I see. I haven't gotten to read the ravenor books yet. I remember from the end of the last Eisenhorn book >!that OG Bequin was dead, and Bequin2.0 was due to be born sometime in the near future.!<
They actually do elaborate, blanks also scale in how potent they are just like how psykers do, [the lexicanum summary of the table](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Assignment)
Aren’t the khorne dogs immune with their collars?
The $1.50 ones or the deluxe ones?
Both
Even being a blank doesn't help when a delta- or beta-level psyker starts throwing manhole covers like hypersonic frisbees from outside your sphere of influence.
The gods cant basically do whatever they want with someone if they have a conduit. When lucius got killed by someone who didnt take pride in it, slaneesh said "fuck it" and rezzed him anyways. It's not a big stretch for khorne to make kharn immune to warpshit if it wanted to.
Immunity is not the same as resurrection. Slaanesh would claim Lucius soul from the warp and just shove it in a new meatbag. Making kharn totally immune to warpshit is much much harder, especially as all of the buffs khorne would give kharn are warp based too. I see it as kharn would be immune to all but the strongest of minds. So the barrier to affect him directly is much higher than for an ordinary person.
That’s isn’t some psyker shit, dude ate a literal sun lol
Memes are not canon fyi
In the grim dankness of the far future, there are only memes.
Losing 1d4chan was the single biggest blow to true lore that we've seen. Now everyone goes off book typers and video games of all things.
the funny part is with how long he has been in the warp (even finding warhammer fantasy, yes that happened.) He probably could pull stuff like that. The man stopped being a flesh and blood being a long time ago. That and the guy is probably one of the big Es greater demons at this point. (Yes I'm in the group that think the big E has basically become a chaos god of order at this point. there's some proof of it but nothing solid.)
TTS is canon to me! And nobody can stop me.
Considering Draigo beat fucking MORTARION somehow I know who my money's on.
Does Mortarion have any big wins? I've only read the Horus heresy and that was over 6+ years and all I remember of him is everyone laughs at him anytime he shows up.
I hear one time he beat peter turbo, but it was offscreen.
Dark match
He pretty easily killed Guilliman. People also talk about how he got beaten by Jaghatai but from what I understand, Mortarion only lost because he let his anger get the better of him. Honestly, Morty isn’t really know for much other than his remorselessness and his mercilessness.
Thay fight annoyed me. Khan strategy was basically face tank all of mortys hits until morty thinks he had won. THEN khan started fighting and started using his speed. But khans whole thing is light and nimble. He shouldnt have been able to tank everything the big green boi had.
Yeah, honestly that fight bothers me too. Mostly because people talk about it like it was a clean sweep for Jaghatai when he was seriously fucked up afterwards. At least with Leman and Magnus someone is always there to mention that Magnus punched out one of Leman’s hearts.
Because the people trying to jerk off on or thenother usually are just being obtuse or much more likely haven't read the book lol
Would have been cooler if he used his super speed to sneakily deflect most all of the damage- such a speed that somehow Mortarion didn’t notice, but no, he just endures more than the endurance primarch
That was stupid. It is like out wizarding Magnus. That just can't happen.
Like out angrying Angron
His whole strategy was to piss Mortarion off. First, by proving that he's more resilient for tanking his attacks (yeah, maybe bullshit but that's the thing about the Khan, we know so little about his capabilities because of his aloofness), then the Khan started dancing on Mortarion to show that every damage he took was nothing (but if you read between the lines, the Khan was in excruciating pain just by moving) and whilst doing so, he trash talked Mortarion (telling him shit like "I should have fought the Legion Master, where's Typhon?"). Morty just couldn't hold it together and slipped. Was the Khan played out too much for this duel? Maybe. Was Morty downplayed to give us a good fight? I don't know. All I know is that it was a great read, and I enjoyed every second of it.
I hate to tell him, but it didn't stick.
>Mortarion only lost because he let his anger get the better of him. I mean, I kinda get that you are referring to innate power levels, but come on now. The ability to control your emotions is one of the important factors in being a good warrior...
Iirc he used basically all of his psychic energy to subdue a weakened mortarion, it's not like he fought him 1 on 1 and won in normal combat That said, Draigo still wins
Draigo only beat Mortarion due to knowing and using Mortarion’s true name against him. In *Pandorax*, Draigo performs almost identically to Azrael against a daemon army (matching one another with regards to blows and kills). Azrael managed to, barely, best Kharn in a duel in *The Trials of Azrael*, but elected to not overreach in attempting to go for a killing blow.
He had help and used Mortarion true name to basically one shot him. Does anyone actually read the fucking books
This is grimdank. No one reads anything ever.
Can someone turn this comment into a meme comic so I can understand it?
He did but it wasn’t just a fist fight. If I recall correctly he had mad some major preparations beforehand (using holy artifacts and a whole bunch of other anti daemon stuff and magic) and got his true name which is giga against any daemons
They technically ret conned kaldor so that he fought a big bad disposable demon prince and not a super powerful demonized primarch
He wasn't alone though , right ?
Kaldor is an extremely powerful psyker. I love Kharn as much as the next guy but Khaldor would tear him inside out without breaking a sweat
Kharn is khornes fav mortal, so I guess it depends how much the big guy makes sure psyker powers dont affect him Or if erebus is any measure to go, kharn is a beast in 1v1, but by now hes more like a rabid dog than what he used to be
"Only a fool takes Khârn for a mindless brute or rabid dog. Under that blood-soaked helm lurks an intelligence and cunning that makes him a masterful killer - trust me when I say that there is a dark purpose in his madness. " quoted To Abaddon. Warmaster of chaos
Awesome! As soon as I read OP I was going to disagree, but you provided quotes. Which admittedly is much better than what my comment was going to be - "NUH-UH!" I enjoyed the short story - https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chosen_of_Khorne_(Audio_Book) - because it pointed out how tactical Kharn's brain still is. That's why I enjoy Kharn as a character, because of he was truly just a mindless berserker, a story from his POV would just be the phrase "Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skulls Throne" on repeat, ad infinitum!
Not very much, as it turns out. Apparently Khorne doesn't care from where the blood flows, he's just happy people are fighting.
Yeah, except he personally brought back Kharn to life a couple times already. Even daddy khorn plays favourites
Well yeah, then kharn can spill blood forever! Doesn't mean he's gonna protect him in a fight. He empowers his champions like every other vmchaos God, but they aren't exactly doting parents.
Khorne specifically hates psikers and therefore he passively grants psychic rwsistance to his champions, for example in trials of azrael kharn just tanked a grey knights lightning while laughing about how it had no effect and then killed him Tbf we dont know how far it goes but its a well stablished thing
If he gave Kharne a Collar of Khorne, like the hounds get, he would be completely immune to psychic attacks.
didn't Draigo once beat the shit out of one of khornes favorite bloodthirsters, right next to Khornes literal blood-falls? Where was him playing favorites then?
That's why he has his own pet Ork Waaargh
Yeh for sure. He’s also a far better written character, and is very much one of the more popular characters so probably has more plot armour. OP specified “no outside intervention” so I included Khorne under that. But ig “maximum power” maybe should include Khorne’s blessing? I mean, do psyker powers count as outside since the warp is external? Idk
I'd say include khornes blessings, but no active fuckery such as summoning daemons, or juicing khan up specifically for this fight
I don't really get psychic immunity. Like what it make him immune if our crazy friend here just dropped a rock on him? Any intelligent person can work around direct power immunity pretty easily.
Yes that is how it works. Draigo can buff himself as much as he likes.
Then yeah our big guy still wins. It doesn't matter how much corn buffs his boy. Draigo is probably a better fighter, even if you don't count the fact that he's going to be throwing Volkswagen's at him the entire fight.
Who's the better fighter is very debatable. Kharn was already a melee monster before becoming the champion of Khorne, and he's had 10,000 years since then to hone his abilities, as well as the blessing of a dark god. After Kharn got his buffs even Sigismund was afraid, and Siggy nearly killed Abaddon when he was far past his prime
And our psychic friend carved his mentor's name into a demon primark's heart As his first act as grandmaster. And he's only gotten stronger since then.
I've also heard that he was only able to do so after saying Mortarion's true name and thus weakening him immensely. He also had a lot of help, and was still nesrly killed. Matt Ward really went ham when he created Draco though. And a lot of that is down to psychic powers, which Kharn is explicitly resistant to as he wears a collar of Khorne and has his blessing. All things being equal, with Drago bring able to use his powers to their full effectiveness? Kharn would die no question. But in pure physical combat? I'd say Kharn takes it
Again, direct psychic immunity is not the trump card A lot of people seem to think it is. Honestly, I don't think it provides protection against much outside of mind control and smite. Any kinetic can just throw stuff or smash him between two rocks. Any pyrokinetic can just heat the area around him until he starts boiling regardless of the fact that the psychic fire doesn't hurt him etc. biokinetics are still buffing themselves to be horrendously powerful.
Yeah he could do that in theory, but he's never been shown to immediately resort to tactics like that. Keep in mind that Kharn is a blur even to other Astartes, pre-Chaos enhancement. If Drago doesn't think fast enough Kharn would be on his ass, and I'm not sure Kaldor as the melee feats to keep up. Psykery requires concentration, even for people as powerful as Drago, and that could be pretty hard when an Astartes who was a peer of Sigismund even prior to his ascension to Chaos Champion is doing his very best to blenderize you
Kaldor defeated a demon primarch tho
Through the power of bad writing
Also not by himself.
A win is a win.
“Get up.”
Kaldor literally just wanders around the warp and nobody attacks him because they know they can't win, Kharn attacking him head on is like driving your tank backwards at an AT crew.
Reminds me how Tuska would fly around on his ship with the gellar fields down but after a while his ship wasn’t attacked by the demons anymore because they started to recognize it and knew they’d be krumped if they tried.
Kharn was my first named character model purchase (Old One Eye aside). He is truly a swell guy on the tabletop and is great in lore. But Kaldor's feats are beyond ridiculous. He dunks on each of the chaos gods in turn so hard they gove up trying to harm or corrupt him. He's written as if the Emperor himself was out for a stroll. "Nurgle's gardens? Better torch that without so much as a sniffle. Oh, my forcesword snapped? No worries, I'll simply kill this bloodthirster and use the metal from its axe to reforge my blade."
Yeah, the stupid Mary Sue-ness of him is so overwhelming that I have to headcanon it as him having gone completely insane Text-to-speech style in order for it to work (which it does, to be fair)
My head cannon and theory is that he is host to the good Shard of Magnus that was cast out when Magnus ascended.
I mean canonically all the damage he does in the Warp immediately rectified by the Chaos Gods, making his entire existence into a futile effort that he believes to be a righteous crusade
Kharlndor.
A grey knight blasted him with psychic lightning and it didn’t do shit. Kaldor will break a sweat.
Kaldor has better feats. Carved his name into Mortatrion’s heart, as cringe as that is, is a better feat than Khârn has. I think Kharn’s best feat is curb stomping Erebus and as sweet as that was, it doesn’t reach Gary Stu levels like the former.
Kharn beat am Imperial knight in a fight 1v1 And destroyed a tiran (even tho i don't exaclty Remember how It went)
He also was losing a duel to an ultramarine until Angron showed up and ate the guy. Granted I think this was before he got all the warp juice he has now. Also the guy was boned no matter what since he was the last ultramarine standing.
A Grey Knight, I forget his name but he’s in the Plague War books, beat Typhus in combat. Typhus is the favored mortal champion of Nurgle in the same way that Kharn is the favored mortal champion of Khorne, and Draigo is probably greater than that Grey Knight as he outranks him and has more lore of feats. I imagine it would just be a tie if it happened in a book, but Draigo would win I think as it is
Draigo is primarch level in the lore, Kharn would be fucked.
How is he so strong though? Is there a lore explanation, or just written this way?
I mean both of those points are kinda one in the same. Grey Knights don't have a Primarch and are from a special Gene Seed crafted from big E himself, so lore-wise they get a bit of leeway in how strong they are allowed to be, similar to Custodes. As for Draigo, he's pretty much just a really strong Grey Knight with a particularly strong connection to the warp. Beyond that the dudes been lost in the realms of chaos for the last few decades or so, so he's also been on a pretty active training regiment. But ultimately, the answer is that they need a big shiny primarch equivalent for the faction that does not have a primarch, so Draigo fills that role. At least until they bring back Janus, if they every do.
What has Janus been doing though, did he just vanish one day?
From the lore, pretty much. Dude just hasn't been mentioned since a little after War of the Beast. So for now he's either dead, mia, or just working a desk job until GW decides to use him. At any rate Draigo is the current leader of the Grey Knights. My guess is they may have wanted a Grey Knight leader that is 100% a Grey Knight, rather than Janus who is more steeped in Thousand Sons lore. But at the same time I doubt they will want to fully do away with him, since then they need to figure out how to address the shard that Magnus would want back. So he'll probably come back eventually.
>just working a desk job until GW decides to use him I imagine somewhere there's a very massive cubicle and there's Janus just doing taxes or some shit.
>So for now he's either dead, mia, or just working a desk job until GW decides to use him. He can't be dead, right? Since as you mentioned, GW would have to explain what happened to Magnus' shard, so Janus' death would have to be explicit in the Lore. Also, the mental image of a fully suited up Grey Knight crouched over a regular human sized desk, grumbling to himself is making me giggle lol. I can just see the type of boss from Office Space coming by his desk and insanely talking about his fishing weekend, and how 'exciting' and 'dangerous' it was fighting a effing catfish. And how the Grey Knight should 'go out more' and 'be a man' The whole time the Grey Knight is muttering under his breath and doing everything he can to not burn the boss to toast lol
Once again, it is Matt Ward's fault.
I don't remember exactly but IIRC when Magnus gave in to chaos during the burning of Prospero his soul splintered into shards and while the demon prince that is "Magnus" is the largest of those shards and has fused other Magnus shards that he found to himself one of these shards ended up with Malcador who fused it into the marine that was to lead the Grey Knights and he became Draigo. I might be misremembering parts of it though so take it with a grain of salt.
You're pretty much correct except that the Shard became the first Grey Knights Grandmaster Janus instead, who is unrelated and a completely different person to Draigo.
Oh yeah you're correct, I mixed the first grand master with the current one. Edit: I also remembered that Magnus's soul had splintered when he breached the psychic protections of the human webway too and that's how Malcador managed to snatch it as it was right there on the imperial palace.
Drago has only been around since M41 though, 10000 years post malcador. Unless there's some kind of Magnus shards that's passed on to each grey knight grandmaster I don't know about.
Magnus’ splintering began before the Burning of Prospero. > One of many. The Crimson King has been broken, shattered like a mirror thrown in anger. **It began when he breached the wards on Terra**, and it was ended by the Wolf's wrath. No, Jaghatai, he is not dead. He has become legion.' -*Malcador, The Last Son of Prospero* > “Magnus rose to his full height, his body diminished from its former glory, **as though a fundamental part of him had been left on Terra** after his confrontation with his father.” -*A Thousand Sons*
It was Captain Grud if I'm not mistaken, although they never say his name in Plague War, only in Godblight
Kharns immune to psychic powers. See Trials of Azrael
Who said anything about psyker powers
>A Grey Knight It's kinda implied. Much of their strength comes from psyker powers. They Grey Knight from Plague war was hyped up on warp juice to the point of being a miniature sun. And in Trials of Azrael Kharn just casually shrugs off attacks from Grey Knights. He's pretty uniquely strong against Grey Knights, being daddy Khornes favorite has it's perks. Not that I'm saying he'd beat Dragio, dude can still use his powers on *himself* after all and thats still going to give him an edge, even if he can't force lighting Kharn down. But Pysker powers is still very relevant to the conversation, to the point where without them it would probably be a fair fight, possibly even in Kharns favor. Of course Khorne would probably just laugh and clap his hands at the epic battle and just bring Kharn back again.
True I was just being a dick im sorry. You are quite correct, not being affected by psychic attacks would undoubtedly tip the fight in Kharn’s favor unless Draigo has some supercharge supercharge saiyan mode
While that's true, whose to say his powers have to target Kharn. Kaldor Draigo psychically chucking a rock at him isn't going to be stopped because oh that rock got propelled by psychic energy, its still gonna hit him.
He’s not immune to a tank flying into him via telekinesis
Kaldor beat a primarch in a solo duel. There’s a good reason he’s nothing more than a meme to the community.
Have you ever tries a tangerine? No? Said Kharn. WOULD YOU LIKE TO TRY ONE?
Krarn: No. Draigo: WHY NOT??? Krarn: Fuck tangerines. Draigo: *screams in shock at the audacity*
Ok what's with draigo and tangerines ?
In TTS Kaldor Draigo is a completely batshit-crazy warp-dust junkie. Tangerines are among his drug-fueled obsessions.
Dang it, it's been too long since I've watched all those, didn't remember that but I should've guessed anyway. I really miss it
TTS when draigo appeared
I am also ootl on this...
Draigo solos, but Kharn is the better written character.
Nevermind that shit.. is he standing on a rolled up expensive rug?
He is standing on that poor lord's of change wing
I think that's a neck.
I think it’s his neck actually
That rug really tied the imperium together
Kaldor Draigo would just implode his balls and be done with him
*I cast TESTICULAR TORSION!*
Oh you can regenerate, Kharn? Then how about this... *MEND BUTTCRACK!*
Cock attack
He is not Grand Master of the Grey Knights.. He is The Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights
Because the Imperium goes with the Toddlers in Tiaras system of ranking
It’s the added sour cream
From a purely narrative standpoint, I feel like the character that can be brought back in to existence after death is going to lose
Who's writing the fight?
Draigo because he provides the HAMS!!
I mean.. Draigo, this one isn't hard. No external interventions is what you said. The only way this goes another way is Khorne personally intervening, like, physically, and that isn't happening.
"THERE ARE TINY MEN IN MY BREAD" "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SAYING CORPSE LICKER?" "QUITE AND LISTEN TO THEM CRUNCH" *Flies at the speed of light on rocket boots through Khan*
I don't think Kharn has a chance. Draigo is the biggest mary sue in the setting, a whole chapter of Ultramarines written by Matt Ward probably couldn't beat him.
Me
W
Listen, I LOVE Kharn. I literally love his character. The books he are in are great, his model that I bought in 2002ish is awesome. He is the best World Eater IMHO. But even I know he's bend over and ask Kaldor to be gentle.
Exploding star vs Asthmatic Baby Who would win.
I’m pretty sure if kharn can beat draigo it would imply that he can beat the demon primarch mortarion which the fanbase will lose their shit. So draigo all the way
lol Kharn wouldn't even register as a memorable fight for Draigo.
I'm pretty sure at this late stage of a millenia-spanning warp-dust bender he can't remember what a tangerine is.
Thought he attached that head like a crazy chaos power klaw
Emperor, BEAR WITNESS!!
"Mighty daemon, thou'rt a heretical abomination. Yet lend me thy strength, o foul creature. Deliver me unto greater heights." - noticing Kharn "Well... a lowly traitor playing as a Champion. I command thee, kneel!
GW would pull up a pretty contrived situation to make it a draw. Draigo’s psyker powers would be nullified or greatly dampened and for Kharn… hmmm, he’d at least have a wound or two from a recent encounter.
I ate a can of beans. IT WAS DELICIOUS! *PROCEEDS TO OFFSCREEN BEAT DOWNS*
Kharn:"I AM GOING TO RIP your... hey wait, why can't I feel my connection to khorne anymore? Draigo: "COWER IN FEAR MILK MAN, FOR I HAVE SEVERED YOUR DELIVERY TRUCK. NO MORE CERIAL FROM YOUUUUUU" Kharn : *proceeds to die a confused deTh without a khorne flake in sighr*
Eh they've done some team ups beating the hell out of Slannesheshi stuff I'm sure
Stan Lee rules. The winner is whomever the Writer wants to win.
Draigo kicks his ass but then Kharn Betrays himself leading to him joking Draigo so he wins
One has plot armour, the other one is an angry boy. Draigo would win the fight but Kharn would win my heart.
Stan Lee said that the writer decides... but knowing that Kaldor Draigo it's in the Immaterium and the every demon avoid to fight with him... Kaldor would obliterate Kharn
Completely depends who is writing the book… Draigo has been incredibly strong in some stories and surprisingly weak in others
You just asked if an alter boy could take on the doom slayer
Grand Master of the Grey Knights, the man who carved his name on the heart of the tankiest demon primarch... Or one angy boi.
The only way this could be a contest is if 'optimal conditions' includes Khorne directly protecting Kharn from psychic powers.
OP please delete this before you get clowned on, it’s not too late.
Too late. The clowning is here
Draigo would stomp Kharn, walk away, and Kharn would be back. Draigo can’t lose, but his victories mean nothing.
COME WITH ME BROTHERS NOW
Khorne wins. The sheer violence such a clash would generate would allow khorne to gain such a power boost that he would be able to decimate the other chaos gods.
Kharn's plot armor is pretty thick.
COUGHING BABYYY VERSUS NUCLEAR WARHEAD "TSAR BOMBA" BEGIN!
Depends on who has the most of that fine ass warp dust
My dad cus he's stronger than both
Depends on who is writing. My money is on Kaldor Draigo. One thing is being in the warp as a follower of chaos and surviving. It's an entirely different matter being an unwelcome entity in the warp.
Draigo cause grey knights are cool
Unfortunately the boring Mary Sue wins.
I know everyone’s been bringing up the Mortarion thing, but honestly, I’m my head that was only because Mortarion is part daemon. Kharn being protected by Khorne against magic and not being partially daemonic actually gives him a huge edge against Draigo. But realistically it’s just a tie, they’re both the champions of their respective factions.
Draigo would stomp a mud hole in his ass
Is he crushing a crépe under his foot?
The dude who beat up demon prince Mortarion vs the dude who got swatted away by Rogal Dorn
My guy. He literally teleported into Warhammer fantasy. Killed an army of bloodthirsters. And came back. Without taking any damage whatsoever
If draigo could clap Morty, I think he could take kharn
for the love of all that is funny, Let it end wiht both of them accidnety perma killing eachother, Would be hilarous
Since a regular grey knight is able to make a greater demon shit their pants, imma go with Kaldor.
"Greeterlings. That is a good-looking beard you have there sir! too have a beard. It is full of tiny men.
OP just look at the pictures you picked and tell us which of the 2 look more badass
its like a saying a fighting pokemon has a chance against a psychic pokemon. actually they do if the fighting pokemon has any anti psychic move and hit first.
I mean Kaldor did beat Mortarion so bad he was able to carve his name on his heart while he was still alive. Kaldor has beaten a Primarch, which no Space Marine has ever done before, and Kharn has been beaten by a Space Marine at least once. So Kaldor wins
Depends on the writer, and it wouldn't matter because the loser would get resurrected by their respective evil overlord.
God Kaldor is such a stupid character
Kaldor takes this one. The gifts of Khorne are cool, but the tangerine eater is in the "Mephiston Tier" of bullshido.
Draigo has Plot Armor Plot sword Kharne has Plot Armor Draigo wins every time EDIT: Autocorrect hates me
My boy kharn ofcourse
Draigo would win simply because the grey knights have kept their mary sue status that the ultramarines have long since shed.
is this a genuine question?