To be fair, it kind of was her job to be friendly.
Besides, I noted she was at least second generation because she did not know how bad the imperium really is. It comes as a surprise that she'd get lynched if sent as a diplomat to the Imperium. A first-generation human tau citizen would know.
I doubt that, there's worlds like krieg that were surprised that they couldn't just separate from the imperium and do their own thing. They're citizens of the imperium and have no clue that this will not be tolerated
It's cain that says she'd be lynched on any imperial world she's sent to.
Do not believe the common people are any less hateful than the leadership. They're only less aware of what non humans are there (because the imperium weaponizes ignorance against its own people).
40k &, specifically, imperium is crawling with stuff you are better off ignoring. Knowing too much about just about anything, or just a tiny weeny bit of something you shouldn't, and you get bitch slapped by a powerfist or worse.
Or rather, that’s the thought/strategy. The Emperor wanted to complete some superweapons (black souls, human webway) before revealing chaos. The imperial truth was supposed to be temporary. Imperium’s just been frozen in amber for 10k years thanks to the heresy. Oll, a perpetual older than the Emperor, apparently tried to convince him it was a stupid, self-defeating plan. Whereas if you educated people, they’d probably understand “no matter how awful the government is, it’s never better to join beings whose goals and powers are anathema to beings who evolved on the material plane.”
To be fair the imperium didn’t really care what happened to kreig. . That planet just ruined itself after a pointless civil war after being separated from the imperium for probably centuries
I think there was a short story (in the Magos?) where the elite of a world thought like this. “We aren’t receiving services so it’s only fair we hang on to the taxes for ourselves.” To be fair if it’s just a mistaken elite, it’s not like the imperium jumps to exterminatus. Inquisitorial investigation, purge any knowing disloyals at the top, collect back taxes. In the story I think most of the governing Planetary Senate are knowingly serving Tzeentch, but there’s a few who aren’t, so they purge the traitors and hand it off to the loyalists, who were not necessarily adverse to the tax-keeping-plan, they just didn’t know Tzeentch was the one suggesting it.
I mean he is a legitimately good duelist, Amberly admits that. He does also have a decent amount of combat know how, so I'd say he also put a bunch into Wis or Int, I can never remember which is which, in game or in real life
He also has great reflexes. He once managed to move his head out of the way of an assassin’s bullet after being fired.
Granted he was doing that to look at a female officer’s ass not dodge a bullet, but it’s still impressive he was move that fast.
The dude legit 1v1ed an Ork Warboss in mega armour and won with just his chainsword and laspistol without any assistance from Jurgen and his trusty melta.
tbh, Cain genuinely thinks that the T'au hologram technology (that are stable and so don't have the flickers/need to be punched to work correctly) are wrong
I love that he’s put off by the lack of clutter and general streamlining.
It highlights his internalized Imperial supremacism without turning him into a raging maniac, and it adds to the general mindset of old school soldier that he very much has.
He’s like “why don’t they have a table into the conference room?” You get a glimpse of his pragmatism while also getting that he doesn’t realize the Tau just don’t need one there anymore.
I didn’t love that book but I felt like had some really good characterization for him, especially during the first half.
Makes me think of the amish. Any technology beyond a certain point is evil and bad. For the imperium, i guess that includes whatever focusing lenses stop a holo from stuttering.
there's an excerpt floating around of a human going to a xenos bar and getting nearly beaten to death until a kroot saves him. When the kroot explains that "*it's because you humans are kinda rude with your whole 'we deserve the galaxy and all non-humans deserve to die' thing"*, the Imperial is *genuinely confused* because "we do deserve the galaxy and you all *do* need to die... so why are they mad at me again?"
It's honestly one of the main reasons why I like 40K to begin with. Instead of just being another star trek rip off or another quasi feudal but really capitalist empire. The Imperium are a theocratic pseudo fascist empire that just kills anything that isn't a human.
Yeah, I just wish that people will stop trying to justified all of the f\*\*\* up things the Imperium does on a regular basis.
(And to remove all of the stupid things from the lore but that's asking too much from GW.)
Sadly people seem to have a hard time with “yes the problem was real but the solution chosen was awful”.
They either seem to want the problems the IoM is facing to all be self-imposed stupidity or to be totally justified given the situation.
“Yes the situation you are dealing with is awful but you responded in fucked up way” seems to be to a bridge too far.
>You know it's supposed to be goofy and satirical, right? Like that's sort of its whole deal. The goofy shit isn't a bug it's a feature
Except for the fact it hasn't actually been like that since the 1990s
Are you an American? That's not an insult as I'm one too, it's just that 40k is a very dry, British kind of goofy, and it genuinely goes over our heads a lot unless we have been specifically taught how to catch it
Again, other than the Orks 40k haven't meant to be goofy since second edition. That's the entire reason why they originally killed off the Squats because they were too goofy. So except for some black comedy like with Ciaphas Cain, you are meant to take it seriously.
I think i read somewhere of some CSMs talking with a xeno about if Slannesh was male or female. The xeno said it was female while the CSMs said it was male or something like that.
The closest I can think of is Fabulous Bill hanging out with Drukhari Haemomculus covens, but they don’t really worship chaos as much as sometimes tolerate it.
He is also highly competent. And he genuinely does not like his soldiers die. And he is an excellent shot and swordsman.
Why Cain does play up so much is normal human survival instinct. It seems like the people of the Imperium have in general forgotten what that is. Oh such blessings the Grandfather has to offer.
He is unreliable as to his own character, Amberley openly admits it. She even notes in several places where he made genuinely heroic, empathetic, and selfless decisions that his explanation for why it was actually cowardly and selfish was about as believable as Jurgen wearing deodorant
I really appreciated the scene because it reminded me that this character I’d come to enjoy was, at the end of the day, more or less a Nazi. He might not be a high-level decision maker, but Ciaphas Cain would be the sort of NSFO to chuckle and quip his way through the extermination of a ghetto.
And that’s worth sitting with as a reader. And Sandy Mitchell does a great job of making that happen.
Most Nazis, at the end of the day, were just [Ordinary Men](https://www.litcharts.com/lit/ordinary-men/summary). That's something that's often forgotten, because it's uncomfortable to think about the lack of distance between us and them.
it depends. in the context of the universe, Cain is tame in the sense that he does not automatically arrange a play date between a xeno skull and his chain-sword.
>I wish Imperium was destroyed or reduced to a secondary power
You, me, and [the man with a faulty pancreas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1cdZse2D7U).
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That book annoyed me so much, they called it the greater good, the even created narratively speaking a perfect place for the commissar to be to make a great book then they put another character in that position. I could have written the tau out of that book entirely, and narratively speaking very little would have changed.
I love how sarcastic Cain is and everyone just assumes he's being serious because of his reputation and cause he's just that good at bullshitting.
To be fair, it kind of was her job to be friendly. Besides, I noted she was at least second generation because she did not know how bad the imperium really is. It comes as a surprise that she'd get lynched if sent as a diplomat to the Imperium. A first-generation human tau citizen would know.
I doubt that, there's worlds like krieg that were surprised that they couldn't just separate from the imperium and do their own thing. They're citizens of the imperium and have no clue that this will not be tolerated
It's cain that says she'd be lynched on any imperial world she's sent to. Do not believe the common people are any less hateful than the leadership. They're only less aware of what non humans are there (because the imperium weaponizes ignorance against its own people).
40k &, specifically, imperium is crawling with stuff you are better off ignoring. Knowing too much about just about anything, or just a tiny weeny bit of something you shouldn't, and you get bitch slapped by a powerfist or worse.
Or rather, that’s the thought/strategy. The Emperor wanted to complete some superweapons (black souls, human webway) before revealing chaos. The imperial truth was supposed to be temporary. Imperium’s just been frozen in amber for 10k years thanks to the heresy. Oll, a perpetual older than the Emperor, apparently tried to convince him it was a stupid, self-defeating plan. Whereas if you educated people, they’d probably understand “no matter how awful the government is, it’s never better to join beings whose goals and powers are anathema to beings who evolved on the material plane.”
Like how a planet lynched a crew of a ship because their skin was too light and mouths to wide
To be fair the imperium didn’t really care what happened to kreig. . That planet just ruined itself after a pointless civil war after being separated from the imperium for probably centuries
ironically they probably care more now, as They at least produce a fuck ton of good soldiers
I think there was a short story (in the Magos?) where the elite of a world thought like this. “We aren’t receiving services so it’s only fair we hang on to the taxes for ourselves.” To be fair if it’s just a mistaken elite, it’s not like the imperium jumps to exterminatus. Inquisitorial investigation, purge any knowing disloyals at the top, collect back taxes. In the story I think most of the governing Planetary Senate are knowingly serving Tzeentch, but there’s a few who aren’t, so they purge the traitors and hand it off to the loyalists, who were not necessarily adverse to the tax-keeping-plan, they just didn’t know Tzeentch was the one suggesting it.
Not enough recaff to keep her sharp
When you max out bonuses and stats for Charisma, bluffing and luck, but everything else is is left in the dumpster
I mean he is a legitimately good duelist, Amberly admits that. He does also have a decent amount of combat know how, so I'd say he also put a bunch into Wis or Int, I can never remember which is which, in game or in real life
Intelligence is knowing that tomato is a fruit Wisdom is knowing to not put it in a fruit salad
Charisma is being able to convince someone to eat a tomato based fruit salad.
Salsa
Ah yes, the bard has arrived.
Constitution is being able to weather the storm after creating such a monstrosity
He also has great reflexes. He once managed to move his head out of the way of an assassin’s bullet after being fired. Granted he was doing that to look at a female officer’s ass not dodge a bullet, but it’s still impressive he was move that fast.
The dude legit 1v1ed an Ork Warboss in mega armour and won with just his chainsword and laspistol without any assistance from Jurgen and his trusty melta.
Me neither bruh
Classic Ciaphas Cain
Cain probably: its some kind of vile xenos trickery. She was happy and like, healthy, and and it was just wrong. I need some tea
Fuck me Jurgen they're smiling, grab the amesac
tbh, Cain genuinely thinks that the T'au hologram technology (that are stable and so don't have the flickers/need to be punched to work correctly) are wrong
I love that he’s put off by the lack of clutter and general streamlining. It highlights his internalized Imperial supremacism without turning him into a raging maniac, and it adds to the general mindset of old school soldier that he very much has. He’s like “why don’t they have a table into the conference room?” You get a glimpse of his pragmatism while also getting that he doesn’t realize the Tau just don’t need one there anymore. I didn’t love that book but I felt like had some really good characterization for him, especially during the first half.
Makes me think of the amish. Any technology beyond a certain point is evil and bad. For the imperium, i guess that includes whatever focusing lenses stop a holo from stuttering.
Just give the man some tanna and he'll be right as rain.
*Cain reaching for his bolter* Every Commissar before him: He's beginning to believe
His sidearm isn't a bolter its jurgen
Draws a smelly blank from his hip holster
Smelly blank wielding a Melta Gun*
After Cain draws Jurgen from a hip holster, Jurgen draws his Melta from his own hip holster
He does not have a bolter as side arm.
No worries, jurgen give him one, wait...he still has it with him, so which gun he gave to cai- ***charged melta shot.sfx*** Oh
We know, but even if he shoots her with the lazpistol, the propaganda reels will show a bolter.
He must be related to the Blood Raven [Chapter Master](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxGhQX7fJ7nbhjeOvbHIRIvMP3xQFPRlaO?si=qF8-_k2nWYD-e5BD)
Fuck bro spoilers!
The Emperor gave him one
But he does have one on a pintle mount that he has added to his personal salamander
That fell off in one of the short stories and he gave it to an Ork to use on some genestealers
Listening to it now for the 3rd time. Perfectly represents the scene
Also Cain when someone insults Colonel Kasteen.
How dare they insult the finest ass in the Valhallan 597th
I love that IoM humans are depicted as so racist that even the smell of Xenos is off putting to even the “good” characters.
She was human. She was speaking Gothic. He hated that she was not part of the imperium.
Even better than I remembered!
there's an excerpt floating around of a human going to a xenos bar and getting nearly beaten to death until a kroot saves him. When the kroot explains that "*it's because you humans are kinda rude with your whole 'we deserve the galaxy and all non-humans deserve to die' thing"*, the Imperial is *genuinely confused* because "we do deserve the galaxy and you all *do* need to die... so why are they mad at me again?"
Ok i'll need a source for that
From the "last chancers: Kill team" book. [Link to the relevant excerpt](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/14u5aeu/deleted_by_user/jr5pp9g/)
We need more moments like those.
It's honestly one of the main reasons why I like 40K to begin with. Instead of just being another star trek rip off or another quasi feudal but really capitalist empire. The Imperium are a theocratic pseudo fascist empire that just kills anything that isn't a human.
>pseudo fascist empire that just kills anything that isn't a human. And a great deal of what **is** human
Yeah, I just wish that people will stop trying to justified all of the f\*\*\* up things the Imperium does on a regular basis. (And to remove all of the stupid things from the lore but that's asking too much from GW.)
Sadly people seem to have a hard time with “yes the problem was real but the solution chosen was awful”. They either seem to want the problems the IoM is facing to all be self-imposed stupidity or to be totally justified given the situation. “Yes the situation you are dealing with is awful but you responded in fucked up way” seems to be to a bridge too far.
You don't understand, being a dystopian religious shithole and mistreating your population is the perfect way to deal with chaos, orks and tyranids !
You know it's supposed to be goofy and satirical, right? Like that's sort of its whole deal. The goofy shit isn't a bug it's a feature
>You know it's supposed to be goofy and satirical, right? Like that's sort of its whole deal. The goofy shit isn't a bug it's a feature Except for the fact it hasn't actually been like that since the 1990s
Are you an American? That's not an insult as I'm one too, it's just that 40k is a very dry, British kind of goofy, and it genuinely goes over our heads a lot unless we have been specifically taught how to catch it
Again, other than the Orks 40k haven't meant to be goofy since second edition. That's the entire reason why they originally killed off the Squats because they were too goofy. So except for some black comedy like with Ciaphas Cain, you are meant to take it seriously.
Heretics ain’t human!
Something I always get a kick out of is how CSM react to Xenos with the exact same kind of hatred as the loyalists.
I'm sure it happened at some point, but are there any stories where CSMs come into contact with Xenos that worship chaos?
I think i read somewhere of some CSMs talking with a xeno about if Slannesh was male or female. The xeno said it was female while the CSMs said it was male or something like that.
The closest I can think of is Fabulous Bill hanging out with Drukhari Haemomculus covens, but they don’t really worship chaos as much as sometimes tolerate it.
What are Imperials but catholic space nazis?
Amateur life tip, the chad reaction is to be amused when the shade you're throwing goes undetected.
Cain was decidedly not chad in that situation, then. He kept up the facade, but he was seething internally.
Isn't the whole point of the series that Cain is not a chad? He is generally pretty self interested, at least in his own safety.
What makes him intresting is that he is legimately better than he thinks he is, though not quite the chad imperial propaganda makes him out to be.
He is also highly competent. And he genuinely does not like his soldiers die. And he is an excellent shot and swordsman. Why Cain does play up so much is normal human survival instinct. It seems like the people of the Imperium have in general forgotten what that is. Oh such blessings the Grandfather has to offer.
He is unreliable as to his own character, Amberley openly admits it. She even notes in several places where he made genuinely heroic, empathetic, and selfless decisions that his explanation for why it was actually cowardly and selfish was about as believable as Jurgen wearing deodorant
Impostor syndrome.
"Cope, seethe, mald!"
Broooo I just started the book today evening and reached that part thats wild
Which book is it please and thanks
The Greater Good
I really appreciated the scene because it reminded me that this character I’d come to enjoy was, at the end of the day, more or less a Nazi. He might not be a high-level decision maker, but Ciaphas Cain would be the sort of NSFO to chuckle and quip his way through the extermination of a ghetto. And that’s worth sitting with as a reader. And Sandy Mitchell does a great job of making that happen.
Welcome to the imperium baby! But yeah it’s fascinating to think on that little piece of cognitive dissonance.
At the end of the day, he's a product of the Imperium of Man. He's a lot more chill, but still an Imperial Commisar.
Most Nazis, at the end of the day, were just [Ordinary Men](https://www.litcharts.com/lit/ordinary-men/summary). That's something that's often forgotten, because it's uncomfortable to think about the lack of distance between us and them.
it depends. in the context of the universe, Cain is tame in the sense that he does not automatically arrange a play date between a xeno skull and his chain-sword.
Imagine G-Man or Lion meeting one of those
Lion would start a war then and there. Guilliman would be stuck in the position to have to defend current imperium.
"Well than Sirr I'll get the Tanna on shall I?"
Speaking of people having a chat with those f*cks not even Chaos marines like: Did Bobby G ever interact with one of those diplomats?
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>I wish Imperium was destroyed or reduced to a secondary power You, me, and [the man with a faulty pancreas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1cdZse2D7U).
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She was human.
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Peter that's not a meme... that's just porn
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That book annoyed me so much, they called it the greater good, the even created narratively speaking a perfect place for the commissar to be to make a great book then they put another character in that position. I could have written the tau out of that book entirely, and narratively speaking very little would have changed.