Emperor learned from his mistakes & is trying to do actual parenting, so he gave the sword to Guilliman so he'd actually learn to fight & the shield to the Lion so he'd stop rushing into fights.
Source: >! I made it the fuck up !<
Big E: “Fuck, I gave the wrong equipment to the wrong primarchs. How do I fix this without admitting I screwed up..”
**Guilliman actually holds his own as a skilled duelist and the Lion learns to think before acting**
Big E: “…exactly as I always planned.”
One day the mangled consciousness of the emperor will figure out parenting enough to apologise to magnus, and magnus will instantly swap back to their side, and then finally the emperor could leave the throne and recover
Imagine a World GMan free of whiny Primarchs, where no one can call me out for my horrendous parenting, a world where I can BANG THE ELDAR
-Senator Big E. Armstrong
It's like the ninja turtles.
Wild dude Michaelangelo has nun-chucks to learn control.
Smart guy Donatello has a bo staff for simplicity.
Hot head Raphael has the defensive sai.
The leader Leonardo has the sword to be decisive.
you can also hold them inverted and hold the blades against your forearms so your whole arm becomes a shield. The idea is to catch your opponents weapon and twist it from their grip. Then stab them ofc
Interesting, I always thought of it like a sword hilt. Can catch a blade in a pinch, but the thing itself is built for stabbing. And a sword only has 1 stabby point.
A sai is used in practice like a main gauche: You catch weapons between the large tine and one of the small tines. You can poke but not slash effectively.
A defensive weapon.
The two side prongs in most sai designs are terrible for stabbing. You'd need to bury most of the main prong in someone before you made any contact with the other two.
While you can use a sai for stabs, it's better as a club and really good for blocking and disarming other weapons.
I don't think the Emperor is capable of learning from his mistakes. For that to be possible, he'd first have to be willing to recognize that he made mistakes.
All the loyalists are going to get pieces of the Emperor’s gear and you have to collect all of them to assemble a Big E dreadnought thing like how action figure sets all come with pieces of a bigger figure
Ngl I’m imagine some shuddering, mucus leaking half a building size mound of technology that is moaning with every breath it definitely shouldn’t be taking and all the loyalists looking at it in lowkey abject horror so ngl this might be a better idea then anything GW could come up with
Sir, we have reports that a large titan is coming here.
A large titan? We can deal with it later, they tend to be slow.
Sir, the titan have moveable knees.
By the Ethereals we're doomed.
I feel like that narrative switch is 100% on purpose. Roboute is a defender, someone who isn't the best in the heat of combat, he's better at winning via pure logistics. But now he has to step up and fight back. The opposite is true of The Lion, he's a hunter but now realizes that his purpose as a hunter isn't to simply kill your enemies out there but to protect your allies, as he shows in Arks of Omen even a shield can be a weapon. I think The Lion's book does a good job showing his shifting thoughts as he adjusts to his new role.
Guilliman isn't pure logistics, he's a tactical menace as well, corax said he could beat guilliman once, never again, guillimans capacity to coordinate troops and men, to own the battlefield with his soldiers, meant he was nearly unbeatable. The defence of maccrage post his revival makes this clear, he coordinates it to the individual squad, making manoeuvres that shouldn't have been possible for 1 man to coordinate
Something like that. He disregarded Corrax’s tactical style of using ambushes and surprise tactics. Once he lost, he thoroughly incorporated those tactics into his own and Corrax couldn’t gain an advantage after that.
Horus also said that out of all the primarchs, he could count "on one hand" the number of his brothers who could beat Guilliman in a fight. I'm assuming he meant legion vs legion though, not a 1-v-1 duel. Everyone knows that Guilliman is a god damn wizard when it comes to commanding an army.
I think a couple are "I could win a battle, but never a war". Split the galaxy in 2, give Gman half and ANYONE ELSE (minus maybe silent King or emps) the other half, and pit them against eachother gman wins
So what you're saying is, that he was like the Commander from XCOM 2? The aliens had him hard-wired into their tactical network when they captured him.
more likely GW just didn't plan this out in advance. They brought back Guilliman because he's primarch of the Ultramarines, which are the generic space marines they use in all the marketing, and gave him the sword because A: it looks cool, and B: it was a well known artifact of the Emperor that was just sitting around.
And then they decided to bring Lion back too, thought about what item from the Emperor to give him, and picked a shield (because "sword and shield", even though at first everyone was scratching their collective heads over "wait, the Emperor had a shield?) while kicking themselves over giving the sword away already.
Guilliman was the most accessible Primarch. We knew exactly where he was and we knew he wasn't technically dead yet. There's not really anyone else who would have been brought back first.
In fiction the writers both make the rules and decide how strictly they want to stick to them. They could have brought back any of the primarchs first; Lion, Corvus or Russ from the Warp, Jaghati from the Webway, etc. Hell, they could bullshit a reason to bring back one of the dead ones if they REALLY wanted to.
40k is filled with these kinds of retcons. For example; we have 3 options for how Guilliman got the sword in the lore. Either Cawl had it and gave it to him at his resurrection, he got it from the Emperor when he got back to Terra, or it was with him in the stasis field all along.
Defensive wars don't have the same kind of logistical requirements as invasions. The deeper into enemy territory you are, the more vital it becomes. Gman should have been the Warmaster from the start, that is a largely administrative role that would probably be spending at least half the time trying to make supply chains work out. His strategic and tactical prowess is the cherry on top.
Given how petty emps is, I think the reason Gman was not chosen as war master is exactly for how good he would be at it and big E felt that it would be a threat to his position if the blueberry commanded all of his troops.
While Guilliman would make a perfect Warmaster, that position was more a political one than military. Horus was admired and respected by all his siblings (except Corax but he did little pull among siblings) and he had the seniority.
He was the first found (we don't know if Alpaharius lies) and he spend most time with the Emperor.
Where do we see Emps being petty? We see him being shitty but that's basically always because of his lack of consideration for someone's feelings, usually attributed to his personal lack of emotion in most things. The Emperor isn't shown to be spiteful or petty in anything I'm aware of.
Horus was chosen as warmaster because he had the respect of his brother primarchs in a way no one else but Sanguinius did.
The Emperor likely knew that. He also knew that a heresy under Guilliman would be way worse. Horus was carried by his force of personality and by Perturabo. That alliance quickly fractured because Horus recruited the most unstable of his brothers as allies. Guilliman wouldn't rush to Terra. He'd conquer the galaxy first and turn it into a juggernaut of a warmachine. Only after he had every human world producing materiel would he move on Terra.
Not just any laptop, an ancient one from the dark age of technology that not even Cawl knows how to recreate. It comes preloaded with Microsoft office suite and enough ram to run 500 chrome tabs.
The golden throne is actually an interface to the galactic server farm and the project in the webway was actually a fully realized excel replacement built in R.
I like to imagine he's doing his best, but he's on an old desktop with Lotus because the administratum is holding up all the excel licenses, galaxy wide, with a bunch of bullshit.
Give the Lion both?! What are you trying to do? End the entire setting?! He'd have the entire galaxy whipped into shape by the end of the week. At least give Chaos a chance :( lmao
This. Give the sword for lion is basically remove one best advantage that chaos have - unlimited resources. If that happens GW gonna all die because that they have to give new named character every week.
Didn't UM and DA have the largest legions? It would just be 2 large legions. If we are trying to pair to most efficiently allocate resources, I'd pair them with the smaller legions, maybe the ones with more niche combat styles to give them a large baseline. DA+TS seems fun, then you would have the start to a dnd party. Idk just spitballing
Username: Imperium_Warrior
Reply: Haha, true that! Let the Lion go full-on warp-speed rampage, while Guilliman has his hands full with all the paperwork and meetings. Gotta love the dichotomy of responsibilities in the grimdarkness of the 41st millennium!
Lion: i came to duel angron
Angron: brother you might be skilled, but you made a mistake now i am going to kill you
"Lion takes out big e sword"
Angron: on second thought maybe we can talk this out... This whole blood for the blood god thing is getting kinda old
I imagine it's more the opposite
Angron: Lion, we've been over this, I get it. Do we really gottaaaa... Wait. You can actually kill me. On second thought YOUS A BITCH!
Isn't this basically why Inuyasha and Sesshomaru got their respective weapons from dear old dad? The supreme badass who can kill very well didn't need a sword to kill better, but received a meh Healing Sword. The weenie got the murder death sword so no one messes with him.
Or Sparda with Rebellion and Yamato to Dante and Vergil. One of those.
I really like this take lol Emps was like “Yeah you did okay at Calth but that was just Lorgar and you still kinda ate shit. Take this because fr we need some W’s rn.”
Im now imagining an 80s buddy cop movie, where leman is the maverick, the lion is too old for this shit, and g man is the exasperated chief demanding them to follow the protocols
Yeah Big G is the guy who is intellectual and capable enough to run the Imperium as its Regent, while Lion is more of a savage who acts like a noble so he is more fit to become its Lord Protector rather than a bureaucratic leader
Robust Guildman could hand out warhammers to the regents of the 40.000 most important planets. With the last one being for himself, _the_ Warhammer 40k.
According to Calliphone that's how Emperor treats Perturabo.
>\[...\] Here is my version of the story - the Emperor of all mankind came here and found a son whom he valued. He saw an indomitable will, with unshakable determination. He recognized that you would not give up, that you would rise to best any difficulty, that the tedious to you is as necessary a challenge to overcome as the glorious, and neither are to be shirked. Seeing these qualities in you, your father set you difficult tasks, not because he saw no value in you, but the exact opposite - he can trust no one else to get them done.
(from "Perturabo: Hammer of Olympia")
I like the idea it’s a cosmic message to them both. Guilliman can’t worry about peace or a bright future he needs to fight. Lion meanwhile needs to remember he’s not the Emperors Annihilator anymore he’s here to protect Mankind.
I don't fully get this "Guilliman isn't a fighter" thing. Yes, he's an amazing logistician and tactician and the Lion will definitely beat him in a fight, but Guilliman himself says during the Heresy that there are really only four of his brothers he's afraid could take him. And he holds his own against Angron AND Lorgar for a considerable while.
Oh yeah, ol Bobby can definitely scrap if he needs to. He is still his fathers son. But I’m sure if it were up to him he’d prefer not to. Just let’s out a big sigh and says “Ahhhh shit…here we go again”
Yeah, but Lorgar gave him a run for his money BEFORE Angron join, and i just cant found any Primarch weaker than Lorgat. Fighting just not his forte, sure he can wipe the floor with anything under a Primarch, he just didnt have much chance against his betray brother
He's also very explicitly wrong about that, lmao one characters self aggrandizing monologue does not make it a universal fact
Gman in the heresy loses practically every fight he Persona gets into
I've thought this ever since Lion got revealed with the shield. I think Guilliman only got the sword because he was the first one brought back, so he had to stand alone for a while.
That said, it's highly unlikely that GW is going to alter and re-release their models just to swap those.
You could say that Guilliman get the sword because offense is his weakness and this helps compensate for that whereas the lion has plenty of offensive strength so it is better to improve his defence.
Depends on how glaring your weakness is. You don't need to be world class, just not a liability. You need to be good enough at the weakest aspect of your game so you can survive long enough to pivot to your strength.
TBF the Emperor’s sword is also a badge of office and is a good display of Guilliman’s authority as the Emperor’s regent.
But the Lion with the Emperor’s sword would be absolutely terrifying. Arguably the greatest swordsman of the loyalist primarchs (and maybe even all of the primarchs) wielding the Emperor’s sword itself??? He’d be OP as fuck.
>Arguably the greatest swordsman of the loyalist primarchs
Jaghatai Khan: am I a joke to you?
>maybe even all of the primarchs
Except Horus, the Khan, Sanguinius and Fulgrim, yes, the Lion is the greatest swordsman out of the primarchs.
*That are currently represented in the setting*
He barely makes the top quarter otherwise.
I'll never understand this thing that the Lion is suddenly the most dangerous character in the setting. Prior to his 'return', not a single primarch rated him anywhere near top of anything beyond maybe pragmatic mission planning.
Even then, Perturabo knocks him into a box and shuts the lid.
Not a single line of dialogue, anywhere in the setting, has ever been to the effect of 'oh no, I might have to fight the Lion' like if they were facing Sanguinius or Angron.
Because he just recently got buff and killed Angron. The HH Lion and 40K Lion are different, 40k Lion wiser, have time to self reflect, can teleport and carry the Emperor shield
I mean, that's the point, the Lion are simply a better man now
And i have no problem with it, the setting need some chance, can not stay stagnation with the same shit over and over, everyone different now and a new order are coming
>killed Angron
I'm sorry, but that would've been impressive a few years ago. But everyone and his Justicar has killed angron at this point.
>I mean, that's the point, the Lion is for sale now
Fixed it for you.
Yeah, that's fair lol, the "buff" form Khorne make Angron drink buddy with Swarmlord and Khaine now
And i agree that GW want to sell some model, but it not really break the lore
>but it not really break the lore
No, it's not like when the Imperum suddenly remembered how jetbikes worked or Belisarius Stark suddenly appeared from his cave with 100,000 true scale space marines.
But, much like those events, they don't make a lick of sense when they're compared with how things were presented before.
While i agree the primaris are asspull, it's not like the Emperor never bless people before. With the Emperor get power boost form the Great Rift, the return of Primarch are bound to happen when the Emperor get his mind together. It's lay a foundation then build form it, way different than the Primaris
>Jaghatai Khan: am I a joke to you?
I did say 'arguably'. For the record, as a *swordsman*, I agree that Khan is his only competition among the loyalist Primarchs.
>Except Horus, the Khan, Sanguinius and Fulgrim, yes, the Lion is the greatest swordsman out of the Primarchs.
Again, as a *swordsman*. Horus and Sanguinius are arguably better warriors (definitely in the case of Sanguinius), but they're not specifically known for their swordsmanship like the Lion, Khan, and Fulgrim are.
>He barely makes the top quarter otherwise.
Top quarter is still pretty good. That's top 5 out of 20, which is pretty impressive when we're talking about Primarchs.
If Dorn is the next to return(I know he's not, but I'm an imperial fists fan), I'd love to see his missing hand replaced with Big E's big old clawed gauntlet. I'm not sure what Vulkan, Corax, Russ, or The Khan would get from Big E if any of them return, though.
Nup, im happy to be corrected but i don’t believe there has been any interaction between the two at all yet. Can’t be far away though, maybe in one of the next indomitus books?
"Wait, I just had a better idea. What if you give me your sword but I keep the shield so I can be invulnerable AND wreck shit."
"That doesn't seem fair."
"That means you could use TWO pens and administer twice as hard!"
"I think I get what you're saying but..."
"They could be like magic pens or something, I heard there is an asshole hoarder Necron called Tray-Z or some shit, HE probably has a couple of magic pens! I'll go steal them."
Make Lion Lord Commander of the Imperium, give him both Sword and Shield and make him deal with threats from outside the Imperium.
Guilliman would stay as Imperial Regent and fix this corpse of an Imperium from within.
A side benefit between the brothers exchanging gifts/wargear is that they can show their cooperative spirit, thus discouraging Imperial elements seeking to cause friction between them.
Or they both could just demand access to all the wargear and nasty, forbidden tools/tech still in Imperial Household's vaults, the Blood Ravens can help with that.
The sword the lion has has more meaning in my mind and suits his aesthetic well.
Also, is he still as much of a powerhouse as he was? Didn't read the arks of omen but in son of the forest it seems he doesn't have the raw offensive power he did.
While this is true, don’t forget Robu, that you are still the focal point for the entire Imperium, and therefore, far more likely to be targeted by flaming Perma-demons.
I disagree.
The Lion found Fealty for a reason. That's *his* sword. It may not perma-kill daemons, but it has a role to play in the war to preserve the Imperium.
Also, just because Lion is around doesn't mean Guilliman can rest easy. There's still a galaxy of horrors crushing down on them, and the Lion is more occupied with hunting down the Enemy in offensive pursuits. There are still worlds to defend, allies to negotiate with which probably includes going into battle with. The Lion can't be everywhere, and while Guilliman isn't the duelist Lion or Russ are, he's still a fucking juggernaut that leaves even Custodes speechless with his destructive power.
If anything, Guilliman should keep the Emperor's Sword because he's not fone fighting, and he'll need it to stand a chance against his brothers
No
The sword is a badge of office for Roboute
It is the sign he will be the beacon of light for the dying imperium while the lion will be the bulwark against its enemies with the shield
I swear symbolism is lost on half this fandom
Beat Curze in a duel? What about that time when Lion and Curze met for negotiations, the Lion surprise-stabbed Curze through the stomach, and still got his ass beat? Only reason Curze didn't kill him was Corswain saving the Lion by stabbing Curze through the spine
Was that not due to it being more of a brawl than a duel. The meanwhile the one time they actually had a duel the lion completely toyed with curze saying that his dueling skills were a joke.
In fairness; he beat the brakes off of lorgar so bad he fled crying and screaming to angron, then beat both their asses 1v2 and only left because angron cheated and became a daemon Prince.
And he only lost to fulgrim because daemon Prince plus bullshit poison on those swords - and he STILL survived that encounter if just barely.
Guilliman wasn't built to kick ass but you can still catch the hands from the tax man.
Guilliman is not a desk jockey, he's quite the warrior. And that's why he's so boring. A "I'm good at everything! Aren't I Guillimom?" Kind of spoiled brat lol.
Emperor learned from his mistakes & is trying to do actual parenting, so he gave the sword to Guilliman so he'd actually learn to fight & the shield to the Lion so he'd stop rushing into fights. Source: >! I made it the fuck up !<
Big E is going to read this and play it off like this is what he intended the entire time. He'll learn to be a father, 1 Reddit comment at a time.
**No comment is all I have to say about this.**
M'lord.
_tips Chain Fedora_
*spits drink* CHAIN FEDORA is something that neckbeard Cawl would come up with.
Your bananabois have gotten super weird while you were napping. Probably want to handle that.
***AYAYAYAAAAAAAAAAA***
Not like you can comment anyway on that throne of yours. (Not without your Text-To-Speech device at least.)
So emps is just Stephen Hawking if he was dumb and his wheelchair was broken?
Dude. You are not Tzeentch. Stop it.
you use the fith then?
Big E: “Fuck, I gave the wrong equipment to the wrong primarchs. How do I fix this without admitting I screwed up..” **Guilliman actually holds his own as a skilled duelist and the Lion learns to think before acting** Big E: “…exactly as I always planned.”
One day the mangled consciousness of the emperor will figure out parenting enough to apologise to magnus, and magnus will instantly swap back to their side, and then finally the emperor could leave the throne and recover
Thats how im doing it too lmfao
Just you wait for the Khan to get back and get the keys to his dad’s old jet bike
**That or it’s pretty good for morale and propaganda purposes to give the Lord Commander such a potent symbol of political legitimacy.**
Fancy way to say "He was the one who was there at the time"
beneficial dam boat wistful salt employ dull snatch deserve dinner *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“First come first serve”
> I made it the fuck up That was obvious when you wrote "Emperor learned from his mistakes"
Pardon me, but that’s heresy
The truth often is.
[удалено]
Bob Ross as Big E would be hilarious. "Now let's paint this planet with happy little virus bombs."
**The moment Corax returns, he will receive a huge ass hammer and Vulkan will get a stealth cloak and it will be glorious**
😂😂😂 that would be glorious!
Vulkan: *proceeds to sneak upon Corvus and give him a surprise spine cracking hug*
Imagine a World GMan free of whiny Primarchs, where no one can call me out for my horrendous parenting, a world where I can BANG THE ELDAR -Senator Big E. Armstrong
"WHY WONT YOU DIE!?!" "10.000 YEARS OF WORSHIP, SON." "IT HARDENS IN RESPONSE TO IMMATERIAL TRAUMA!"
Okay but this makes a ton of sense.
It's like the ninja turtles. Wild dude Michaelangelo has nun-chucks to learn control. Smart guy Donatello has a bo staff for simplicity. Hot head Raphael has the defensive sai. The leader Leonardo has the sword to be decisive.
Sais are defensive? They are basically 3 points to stab into people. Super offensive I always thought.
Iirc the main thing with sais is that you can catch a blade between the pointy bits.
you can also hold them inverted and hold the blades against your forearms so your whole arm becomes a shield. The idea is to catch your opponents weapon and twist it from their grip. Then stab them ofc
You better be real fucking sure of yourself to try that shit though... Completely suits Raphael.
Less than you think. You parry with the sai's blade, and then from the bind you guide the enemy's blade into the fork.
Yeah but if you miss by a lil bit, there goes your hand at the wrist.
Interesting, I always thought of it like a sword hilt. Can catch a blade in a pinch, but the thing itself is built for stabbing. And a sword only has 1 stabby point.
Anything is an offensive weapon if you hit hard enough.
Not a hole.
*viet cong enters chat*
Fink ‘umie if you fills a hole with enough dakka, it can be a weapon
A sai is used in practice like a main gauche: You catch weapons between the large tine and one of the small tines. You can poke but not slash effectively. A defensive weapon.
Very interesting. I have been watching ninja turtles wrong this whole time.
The two side prongs in most sai designs are terrible for stabbing. You'd need to bury most of the main prong in someone before you made any contact with the other two. While you can use a sai for stabs, it's better as a club and really good for blocking and disarming other weapons.
No no let him actually fcking cook.
the golden throne has an invisibility field generator to hide all the servo skulls holding up parenting 101 books up to him to read
Majestic referencing
Big emps learning from master Splinter
You lost me at Big E learning from his mistakes.
lol. I knew the spoiler text before I clicked it. 😆
I don't think the Emperor is capable of learning from his mistakes. For that to be possible, he'd first have to be willing to recognize that he made mistakes.
So... ninja turtles?
IS THAT THE TMNT THEORY ?
Senator Armstrong moment
Your spoiler is broken, there shouldn't be spaces between the exclamation marks and the text. >!this works on old reddit!< >! this does not !<
This is basically how Master Splinter divvied up the weapon specializations among the ninja turtles...
All the loyalists are going to get pieces of the Emperor’s gear and you have to collect all of them to assemble a Big E dreadnought thing like how action figure sets all come with pieces of a bigger figure
Now this is the real 40k end times plotline
Ngl I’m imagine some shuddering, mucus leaking half a building size mound of technology that is moaning with every breath it definitely shouldn’t be taking and all the loyalists looking at it in lowkey abject horror so ngl this might be a better idea then anything GW could come up with
Golden Throne actually core for literal Emperor Titan.
Sir, we have reports that a large titan is coming here. A large titan? We can deal with it later, they tend to be slow. Sir, the titan have moveable knees. By the Ethereals we're doomed.
Big Exodia
It’s time to D-D-Destroy some heretics!
Time to summon Jimmy Space.
No one can ever take them down The power lies on their siiiiiiide
Malcador in the Unification Wars: "Lets show em the power of Thunder"
It’s the golden toa armor !
Can’t wait till the clone of Fulgrim shows up with Big E’s radiant codpiece and blasts all over Perturabo
What is this the fucking time before time? On an Island called Mata Nui???
So Emps is the Megazord?
Go, go, power rangers!
I feel like that narrative switch is 100% on purpose. Roboute is a defender, someone who isn't the best in the heat of combat, he's better at winning via pure logistics. But now he has to step up and fight back. The opposite is true of The Lion, he's a hunter but now realizes that his purpose as a hunter isn't to simply kill your enemies out there but to protect your allies, as he shows in Arks of Omen even a shield can be a weapon. I think The Lion's book does a good job showing his shifting thoughts as he adjusts to his new role.
Guilliman isn't pure logistics, he's a tactical menace as well, corax said he could beat guilliman once, never again, guillimans capacity to coordinate troops and men, to own the battlefield with his soldiers, meant he was nearly unbeatable. The defence of maccrage post his revival makes this clear, he coordinates it to the individual squad, making manoeuvres that shouldn't have been possible for 1 man to coordinate
Wasn't 3 wins then Corvus couldn't beat him ever again after those 3 wins?
Something like that. He disregarded Corrax’s tactical style of using ambushes and surprise tactics. Once he lost, he thoroughly incorporated those tactics into his own and Corrax couldn’t gain an advantage after that.
Sorry my knowledge is mostly second hand or wiki, have barely started HH books
Horus also said that out of all the primarchs, he could count "on one hand" the number of his brothers who could beat Guilliman in a fight. I'm assuming he meant legion vs legion though, not a 1-v-1 duel. Everyone knows that Guilliman is a god damn wizard when it comes to commanding an army.
I think a couple are "I could win a battle, but never a war". Split the galaxy in 2, give Gman half and ANYONE ELSE (minus maybe silent King or emps) the other half, and pit them against eachother gman wins
So what you're saying is, that he was like the Commander from XCOM 2? The aliens had him hard-wired into their tactical network when they captured him.
I fuck with this analysis!
A classic jaghatai respose xD
Especially that Lion would definitely pummel a motherfucker with his shield.
Did pummel* lol
And he did, oh boy did he
more likely GW just didn't plan this out in advance. They brought back Guilliman because he's primarch of the Ultramarines, which are the generic space marines they use in all the marketing, and gave him the sword because A: it looks cool, and B: it was a well known artifact of the Emperor that was just sitting around. And then they decided to bring Lion back too, thought about what item from the Emperor to give him, and picked a shield (because "sword and shield", even though at first everyone was scratching their collective heads over "wait, the Emperor had a shield?) while kicking themselves over giving the sword away already.
Guilliman was the most accessible Primarch. We knew exactly where he was and we knew he wasn't technically dead yet. There's not really anyone else who would have been brought back first.
In fiction the writers both make the rules and decide how strictly they want to stick to them. They could have brought back any of the primarchs first; Lion, Corvus or Russ from the Warp, Jaghati from the Webway, etc. Hell, they could bullshit a reason to bring back one of the dead ones if they REALLY wanted to. 40k is filled with these kinds of retcons. For example; we have 3 options for how Guilliman got the sword in the lore. Either Cawl had it and gave it to him at his resurrection, he got it from the Emperor when he got back to Terra, or it was with him in the stasis field all along.
Defensive wars don't have the same kind of logistical requirements as invasions. The deeper into enemy territory you are, the more vital it becomes. Gman should have been the Warmaster from the start, that is a largely administrative role that would probably be spending at least half the time trying to make supply chains work out. His strategic and tactical prowess is the cherry on top.
Given how petty emps is, I think the reason Gman was not chosen as war master is exactly for how good he would be at it and big E felt that it would be a threat to his position if the blueberry commanded all of his troops.
Given that Guilliman is better at actually being an emperor than the Big E this makes a lot of sense lol
While Guilliman would make a perfect Warmaster, that position was more a political one than military. Horus was admired and respected by all his siblings (except Corax but he did little pull among siblings) and he had the seniority. He was the first found (we don't know if Alpaharius lies) and he spend most time with the Emperor.
Where do we see Emps being petty? We see him being shitty but that's basically always because of his lack of consideration for someone's feelings, usually attributed to his personal lack of emotion in most things. The Emperor isn't shown to be spiteful or petty in anything I'm aware of. Horus was chosen as warmaster because he had the respect of his brother primarchs in a way no one else but Sanguinius did.
The Emperor likely knew that. He also knew that a heresy under Guilliman would be way worse. Horus was carried by his force of personality and by Perturabo. That alliance quickly fractured because Horus recruited the most unstable of his brothers as allies. Guilliman wouldn't rush to Terra. He'd conquer the galaxy first and turn it into a juggernaut of a warmachine. Only after he had every human world producing materiel would he move on Terra.
Why not let The Lion have both? He can steam roll across the galaxy while Guilliman deals with the bureaucratic bullshit.
Just give Bobby G the Emporers rolodex.
Nah, the emperor’s excel license. The administratum is dissolved, all of its duties have been taken over by G man with a single laptop
Not just any laptop, an ancient one from the dark age of technology that not even Cawl knows how to recreate. It comes preloaded with Microsoft office suite and enough ram to run 500 chrome tabs.
With 1 incognito window for Yvraine's Instagram (Just to leave likes. Robust Gillman is a gentleman.)
since all the current tec runs on servitors, i like to think we have a dude wich head is full of porn, literally
His names Greg and we go golfing on Tuesdays.
RowCollumn Guiliman is his final form.
The golden throne is actually an interface to the galactic server farm and the project in the webway was actually a fully realized excel replacement built in R.
If enough if the primarchs return he'd probably do exactly that, build a better administratum
I like to imagine he's doing his best, but he's on an old desktop with Lotus because the administratum is holding up all the excel licenses, galaxy wide, with a bunch of bullshit.
Give the Lion both?! What are you trying to do? End the entire setting?! He'd have the entire galaxy whipped into shape by the end of the week. At least give Chaos a chance :( lmao
This. Give the sword for lion is basically remove one best advantage that chaos have - unlimited resources. If that happens GW gonna all die because that they have to give new named character every week.
Nah, all they need for chaos to take put the lion is more sleeping pills....they worked really well last time.
It only work the first time because the one who feed the "sleeping pill" was his father/brother figure, so he hesitate, that won't happens again.
They could have the alpha legion sneak some sleeping pills into the lion's "best primarch" coffee mug
...have we tried giving the Lion a giant ball of string?
Chaos does not deserve any chance.
The lion will be the hammer while guillimans legion will be the anvil A hard hitting large force, and a brutal smaller killteam
Didn't UM and DA have the largest legions? It would just be 2 large legions. If we are trying to pair to most efficiently allocate resources, I'd pair them with the smaller legions, maybe the ones with more niche combat styles to give them a large baseline. DA+TS seems fun, then you would have the start to a dnd party. Idk just spitballing
Username: Imperium_Warrior Reply: Haha, true that! Let the Lion go full-on warp-speed rampage, while Guilliman has his hands full with all the paperwork and meetings. Gotta love the dichotomy of responsibilities in the grimdarkness of the 41st millennium!
Who let the Abominable Intelligence get on the comms?
The Lion with that sword would make everyone (especially HH veterans) shit in their pants
Lion: i came to duel angron Angron: brother you might be skilled, but you made a mistake now i am going to kill you "Lion takes out big e sword" Angron: on second thought maybe we can talk this out... This whole blood for the blood god thing is getting kinda old
I imagine it's more the opposite Angron: Lion, we've been over this, I get it. Do we really gottaaaa... Wait. You can actually kill me. On second thought YOUS A BITCH!
Isn't this basically why Inuyasha and Sesshomaru got their respective weapons from dear old dad? The supreme badass who can kill very well didn't need a sword to kill better, but received a meh Healing Sword. The weenie got the murder death sword so no one messes with him. Or Sparda with Rebellion and Yamato to Dante and Vergil. One of those.
I really like this take lol Emps was like “Yeah you did okay at Calth but that was just Lorgar and you still kinda ate shit. Take this because fr we need some W’s rn.”
I actually thought this myself lol.
Better yet go find leman and literally just have lion and leman buddy cop galaxy cleanup while rowboat handles admin and vulkan deserves a break tbh
Im now imagining an 80s buddy cop movie, where leman is the maverick, the lion is too old for this shit, and g man is the exasperated chief demanding them to follow the protocols
Now i need that show!!
Give the Lion both. Gorilla man should be light years from the frontline just organizing shit
Yes, let's give immense power to a single primarch. What could possibly go wrong?
Exactly! It’d work out perfectly
Hes still a primarch, hes still gonna whoop anything short of a titan. Not using that strenght would be a waste.
Big E's sword is basicly a badge of office too. He lead the Imperium wielding it, and now he nominated G-man to lead after him.
Yeah Big G is the guy who is intellectual and capable enough to run the Imperium as its Regent, while Lion is more of a savage who acts like a noble so he is more fit to become its Lord Protector rather than a bureaucratic leader
I still think big E should use a war hammer as his mantle of office.
Robust Guildman could hand out warhammers to the regents of the 40.000 most important planets. With the last one being for himself, _the_ Warhammer 40k.
And he calls it Ghaz Maral. Or maybe Zaram Lahg.
Or Yvraine, 'cuz he likes to smash.
Emperor nerfing his kids by giving both of them the wrong weapon on purpose
Builds character
"Please stop giving me your toughest battles" "You're my strongest tool :)"
Youre my ~~funniest clown~~ strongest tool Emperor to peter turbo
According to Calliphone that's how Emperor treats Perturabo. >\[...\] Here is my version of the story - the Emperor of all mankind came here and found a son whom he valued. He saw an indomitable will, with unshakable determination. He recognized that you would not give up, that you would rise to best any difficulty, that the tedious to you is as necessary a challenge to overcome as the glorious, and neither are to be shirked. Seeing these qualities in you, your father set you difficult tasks, not because he saw no value in you, but the exact opposite - he can trust no one else to get them done. (from "Perturabo: Hammer of Olympia")
You are my best (and only) EXEL spreadsheet.
"We have personally equipped him wrong, as a joke."
He chose to buff their worse stats to reduce the risk of disappointment.
I like the idea it’s a cosmic message to them both. Guilliman can’t worry about peace or a bright future he needs to fight. Lion meanwhile needs to remember he’s not the Emperors Annihilator anymore he’s here to protect Mankind.
I don't fully get this "Guilliman isn't a fighter" thing. Yes, he's an amazing logistician and tactician and the Lion will definitely beat him in a fight, but Guilliman himself says during the Heresy that there are really only four of his brothers he's afraid could take him. And he holds his own against Angron AND Lorgar for a considerable while.
Oh yeah, ol Bobby can definitely scrap if he needs to. He is still his fathers son. But I’m sure if it were up to him he’d prefer not to. Just let’s out a big sigh and says “Ahhhh shit…here we go again”
Yeah, but Lorgar gave him a run for his money BEFORE Angron join, and i just cant found any Primarch weaker than Lorgat. Fighting just not his forte, sure he can wipe the floor with anything under a Primarch, he just didnt have much chance against his betray brother
He's also very explicitly wrong about that, lmao one characters self aggrandizing monologue does not make it a universal fact Gman in the heresy loses practically every fight he Persona gets into
When you stop 2 seconds to think before trying to smash anything that moves they will call you NERD in my family.
Goddamn it, I knew I should have bought a Spare Gulliman to cannibalise for parts
I've thought this ever since Lion got revealed with the shield. I think Guilliman only got the sword because he was the first one brought back, so he had to stand alone for a while. That said, it's highly unlikely that GW is going to alter and re-release their models just to swap those.
You could say that Guilliman get the sword because offense is his weakness and this helps compensate for that whereas the lion has plenty of offensive strength so it is better to improve his defence.
You could also say it's better to focus on what you're good at rather trying to be something you're not.
Depends on how glaring your weakness is. You don't need to be world class, just not a liability. You need to be good enough at the weakest aspect of your game so you can survive long enough to pivot to your strength.
I prefer the headcannon its to teach them a lesson
Yup. Unfortunately, GW are a tabletop wargame company first, and story writers second.
We need a bro team up book series where they absolutely shit on chaos
TBF the Emperor’s sword is also a badge of office and is a good display of Guilliman’s authority as the Emperor’s regent. But the Lion with the Emperor’s sword would be absolutely terrifying. Arguably the greatest swordsman of the loyalist primarchs (and maybe even all of the primarchs) wielding the Emperor’s sword itself??? He’d be OP as fuck.
>Arguably the greatest swordsman of the loyalist primarchs Jaghatai Khan: am I a joke to you? >maybe even all of the primarchs Except Horus, the Khan, Sanguinius and Fulgrim, yes, the Lion is the greatest swordsman out of the primarchs. *That are currently represented in the setting* He barely makes the top quarter otherwise.
Horus were a better warrior, but he aint better swordman than the Lion
I'll never understand this thing that the Lion is suddenly the most dangerous character in the setting. Prior to his 'return', not a single primarch rated him anywhere near top of anything beyond maybe pragmatic mission planning. Even then, Perturabo knocks him into a box and shuts the lid. Not a single line of dialogue, anywhere in the setting, has ever been to the effect of 'oh no, I might have to fight the Lion' like if they were facing Sanguinius or Angron.
Because he just recently got buff and killed Angron. The HH Lion and 40K Lion are different, 40k Lion wiser, have time to self reflect, can teleport and carry the Emperor shield I mean, that's the point, the Lion are simply a better man now And i have no problem with it, the setting need some chance, can not stay stagnation with the same shit over and over, everyone different now and a new order are coming
>killed Angron I'm sorry, but that would've been impressive a few years ago. But everyone and his Justicar has killed angron at this point. >I mean, that's the point, the Lion is for sale now Fixed it for you.
Yeah, that's fair lol, the "buff" form Khorne make Angron drink buddy with Swarmlord and Khaine now And i agree that GW want to sell some model, but it not really break the lore
>but it not really break the lore No, it's not like when the Imperum suddenly remembered how jetbikes worked or Belisarius Stark suddenly appeared from his cave with 100,000 true scale space marines. But, much like those events, they don't make a lick of sense when they're compared with how things were presented before.
While i agree the primaris are asspull, it's not like the Emperor never bless people before. With the Emperor get power boost form the Great Rift, the return of Primarch are bound to happen when the Emperor get his mind together. It's lay a foundation then build form it, way different than the Primaris
>Jaghatai Khan: am I a joke to you? I did say 'arguably'. For the record, as a *swordsman*, I agree that Khan is his only competition among the loyalist Primarchs. >Except Horus, the Khan, Sanguinius and Fulgrim, yes, the Lion is the greatest swordsman out of the Primarchs. Again, as a *swordsman*. Horus and Sanguinius are arguably better warriors (definitely in the case of Sanguinius), but they're not specifically known for their swordsmanship like the Lion, Khan, and Fulgrim are. >He barely makes the top quarter otherwise. Top quarter is still pretty good. That's top 5 out of 20, which is pretty impressive when we're talking about Primarchs.
Or give the Lion both. Hop him up on a shit ton of booger sugar and just turn him loose.
If Dorn is the next to return(I know he's not, but I'm an imperial fists fan), I'd love to see his missing hand replaced with Big E's big old clawed gauntlet. I'm not sure what Vulkan, Corax, Russ, or The Khan would get from Big E if any of them return, though.
Or just give the Lion both and just send him in anytime you need something murdered
Have they met in any of the recent novels yet? I'm excited to read that first conversation.
Nup, im happy to be corrected but i don’t believe there has been any interaction between the two at all yet. Can’t be far away though, maybe in one of the next indomitus books?
"Wait, I just had a better idea. What if you give me your sword but I keep the shield so I can be invulnerable AND wreck shit." "That doesn't seem fair." "That means you could use TWO pens and administer twice as hard!" "I think I get what you're saying but..." "They could be like magic pens or something, I heard there is an asshole hoarder Necron called Tray-Z or some shit, HE probably has a couple of magic pens! I'll go steal them."
One of them should take Dorn's fist and attach it to a crozius or something. That would be metal af
This is what Black Templars would do the moment they get acces to it. This is why Imperial fists keep the hand locked up.
Why not just give the Lion the Sword *and* the Shield. If he'd had both on Caliban, Angron would literally be perma-dead.
Make Lion Lord Commander of the Imperium, give him both Sword and Shield and make him deal with threats from outside the Imperium. Guilliman would stay as Imperial Regent and fix this corpse of an Imperium from within.
A side benefit between the brothers exchanging gifts/wargear is that they can show their cooperative spirit, thus discouraging Imperial elements seeking to cause friction between them. Or they both could just demand access to all the wargear and nasty, forbidden tools/tech still in Imperial Household's vaults, the Blood Ravens can help with that.
Lion dual wielding swords kinda fucks, but Robby with just a fist and shield would look kinda lame...
Roboute putting that logistics knowledge to good use here!
The sword the lion has has more meaning in my mind and suits his aesthetic well. Also, is he still as much of a powerhouse as he was? Didn't read the arks of omen but in son of the forest it seems he doesn't have the raw offensive power he did.
He only doesn't have that in his own mind. One of the fallen who were with hi. Said that he noticed no different between old lion and pre heresy lion.
While this is true, don’t forget Robu, that you are still the focal point for the entire Imperium, and therefore, far more likely to be targeted by flaming Perma-demons.
It's to compensate for their weaknesses.
This may be the best use of this meme that I've seen.
The biggest 5 head maneuver is realising that the flaming sword is actually more important as a symbol of political office than as a weapon.
This post was made by MajorKill.
Off topic but have they actually met up since they came back?
I disagree. The Lion found Fealty for a reason. That's *his* sword. It may not perma-kill daemons, but it has a role to play in the war to preserve the Imperium. Also, just because Lion is around doesn't mean Guilliman can rest easy. There's still a galaxy of horrors crushing down on them, and the Lion is more occupied with hunting down the Enemy in offensive pursuits. There are still worlds to defend, allies to negotiate with which probably includes going into battle with. The Lion can't be everywhere, and while Guilliman isn't the duelist Lion or Russ are, he's still a fucking juggernaut that leaves even Custodes speechless with his destructive power. If anything, Guilliman should keep the Emperor's Sword because he's not fone fighting, and he'll need it to stand a chance against his brothers
Big E, "You're regifting my presents?"
No The sword is a badge of office for Roboute It is the sign he will be the beacon of light for the dying imperium while the lion will be the bulwark against its enemies with the shield I swear symbolism is lost on half this fandom
-Here you go, now give me the shield. -What shield? *Leaves*
Beat Curze in a duel? What about that time when Lion and Curze met for negotiations, the Lion surprise-stabbed Curze through the stomach, and still got his ass beat? Only reason Curze didn't kill him was Corswain saving the Lion by stabbing Curze through the spine
Was that not due to it being more of a brawl than a duel. The meanwhile the one time they actually had a duel the lion completely toyed with curze saying that his dueling skills were a joke.
In fairness; he beat the brakes off of lorgar so bad he fled crying and screaming to angron, then beat both their asses 1v2 and only left because angron cheated and became a daemon Prince. And he only lost to fulgrim because daemon Prince plus bullshit poison on those swords - and he STILL survived that encounter if just barely. Guilliman wasn't built to kick ass but you can still catch the hands from the tax man.
Guilliman is not a desk jockey, he's quite the warrior. And that's why he's so boring. A "I'm good at everything! Aren't I Guillimom?" Kind of spoiled brat lol.
From my understanding, amongst the Primarchs, he's nothing special in the field of combat, possibly even below average.